The overselling of bombing Syria demonstrates how stupid the admin thinks

[cali]

the American people are. Maybe they're right and the public is that stupid, but it's still infuriating and repugnant.

The language employed by Kerry is so over the top that it almost seems like parody. All the cliches in the book are tossed together for our consumption. It sounds not only overwrought but desperate. In its attempt to get the Congress and the people to support bombing Syria, the administration has demonstrated that there are no rhetorical lengths they won't go to.

[jsr]

1. Too bad Obama couldn't devote half of the energy he's been spending on war to get us single payer.

[KG]

3. word.

[HooptieWagon]

5. There was no "red line in the sand" on single-payer.

Nor does it seem to apply to Syrian rebel's use of chemical weapons.

[leftstreet]

17. +1

[whatchamacallit]

2. They're right

Just look around you on DU.

[ProSense]

4. I found nothing "parody" about Kerry's testimony.

Too many people are trying to make a joke of this, and trying to deflect from a discussion of the facts. Instead, people are resorting to personal attacks and name calling.

[HooptieWagon]

8. Of course you didn't.

Did you believe the same bullshit when it was used to justify Bush's Iraq War?

[ProSense]

12. "Did you believe the same bullshit when it was used to justify Bush's Iraq War?"

No, I'm smart enough to know the difference between this situation and the claims "used to justify Bush's Iraq War."

[HooptieWagon]

14. The claims are the same.

Only difference is which president has a poster on your wall.

[Bluenorthwest]

37. And yet John Kerry supported and voted for Bush's war, he repeatedly stated that

Saddam had WMD's of all sorts. So now he is selling the same thing he sold last time. He was not smart enough to know discern the problems with invading Iraq.

[ProSense]

15. Senators Boxer and Durbin voted against the IWR, but supported the Syria resolution:

Who voted for the Syria resolution?

By Ed O'Keefe

Senate Foreign Relations Committee voted Wednesday to approve a resolution authorizing U.S. military action against the government of Syrian President Bashar al-Assad.

<...>

Final tally: 10 to 7, with one senator voting present.

Who voted yes?: Committee Chairman Robert Menendez (D-N.J.) and Sens. Barbara Boxer (D-Calif.) (by proxy — was absent due to the Jewish holiday), Benjamin Cardin (D-Md.), Jeanne Shaheen (D-N.H.), Christopher Coons (D-Del.), Richard Durbin (D-Ill.), Tim Kaine (D-Va.). Ranking member Sen. Bob Corker (R-Tenn.) and Sens. Jeff Flake (R-Ariz.) and John McCain (R-Ariz.).

Who voted no?: Sens. Tom Udall (D-N.M.), Christopher Murphy (D-Conn.), James Risch (R-Idaho), Marco Rubio (R-Fla.), Ron Johnson (R-Wis.), John Barrasso (R-Wyo.) and Rand Paul (R-Ky.)

Who voted present?: Sen. Edward J. Markey (D-Mass.).

- more -

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-fix/wp/2013/09/04/who-voted-for-the-syria-resolution/

[Dawgs]

18. Which tells us what? Just because they're Dems doesn't mean they can't also be sheep.

Tells us more about them than whether this is the right thing to do or not.

[G_j]

10. it's no joke nt

[cali]

13. You? Who on earth would expect you to do anything but support

the administration in every possible circumstance and to parrot their rhetoric. It's what you do without fail.

[ProSense]

16. Your problem

"You? Who on earth would expect you to do anything but support the administration in every possible circumstance and to parrot their rhetoric. It's what you do without fail. "

...is that you think being dismissive is an argument. You called Kerry a "liar" because you disagreed with him.

This debate is not a joke, and Senators are giving serious consideration to what is being presented.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023602771

[Dawgs]

19. Probably waiting to here from their donors. Taking politicians at their word is never a good idea.

[cali]

23. Perhaps a small distinction, but I didn't call him a liar. I said he lied

not because I disagree with him but because he lied.

I'm hardly the only one who has noted that. Articles in the New Yorker and numerous other periodicals say the same thing- albeit more diplomatically. I was very specific about what he lied about.

John Kerry lied and lied by omission.

That's a fact.

[KittyWampus]

32. You are simply uninformed. As usual, the ugliest crap comes from those least well informed.

[Bluenorthwest]

38. And yet you do not refute nor post a correction you simply lash out

Makes me think that's all you got. Name calling and baseless criticism without any support for your assertion. Sick of it.

[cali]

40. wow, there's a cogent refutation. I'm certainly far better informed than you kitt

I was quite specific about what Kerry lied about. Why don't you respond to the op I posted where I pointed out specific examples, kitty? c'mon, kitty. Instead of a demonstration of petulance, let's see you actually post an argument as to why those weren't lies, kitty.

As usual the ugliest and dimmest shit comes from people who are only interested in defending the administration.

[TwilightGardener]

6. Honestly, Obama is the best spokesman for his position.

When I listen to him, I am reminded of why he's President. He should address the public more thoroughly if he believes this is a worthy cause.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

7. So far, the war advertising is chalking up a "No Sale" on the American people.

And, the most of the rest of the world.

[HooptieWagon]

9. its NEW! and IMPROVED!!

But the public still recognizes it as a Yugo.

[Junkdrawer]

11. The admin's case that "Assad did it" is crumbling fast....

we better strike NOW so the strike will be the news and not the evidence.

Time is of the essence.

[KittyWampus]

31. right, German intelligence just acknowledged it was Assad.

[Hydra]

20. This was so poorly sold, you could almost call it

"By the way, we're going to go invade Syria now. For the Children."

[Precisely]

22. Operation Just the Tip

[Precisely]

21. Stupid or tuned out

People turn away, in larger numbers, the deeper the deception and disconnect from leaders.

[Chaco Dundee]

24. why is anybody surprised?

This Administration is a 3 ring circus just like under bush.only a few clowns,players have changed.that does not mean they are better clowns.

[MisterP]

25. one minute they're lordly World Control, hand-in-glove with the media, defanging and veal-penning

some of their savviest erstwhile critics, walking back every promise in favor of GOP policies while subtly managing the reactions (either diluting a reaction, or just insisting that we got the best deal we could within the limits of plausible deniability), their fingers literally on the pulse of communications--and half a week later it's all in shambles and they're smashing hard drives with little pieces flying around

such a fall causes individual and collective mental backlash, and hence equally-large actions to compensate

this is actually the same pattern Reagan followed: media fawning (it's different with Obama, but replace "media" with "Bush critics" or what-have-you) and partisan bickering over big issues, then the mask falls off with Eugene Hasenfus late in Year Six and the cult figure leaves in disgrace and with ratings freefalling toward 40%

[SoapBox]

26. AND what exactly is your plan for Syria?

Over the last 2 years or so...how many hundreds of thousands estimated dead?

And what about the TWO MILLION that have fled the country? How about asking them if they would like
Assad's military (and him) taken out?

I hear 99.99% screeching NO to any action...but what is the solution to Assad? Nice genteel talking to him?

I'll be waiting for the brain surgeon solution DU!

[leftstreet]

27. What has the Arab League suggested? The UN?

How the FUCK is it the responsibility of the US and UK?

[Union Scribe]

28. What's your plan?

I hope it's better than "bomb Syria" because that isn't going to do shit all about the threat of chemical weapons, civilian deaths, etc.

[cali]

33. Sometimes there is no viable "solution". That's just a fact of life

One thing I'd certainly like to see happen is a much more robust plan for helping the refugees. btw, not all the refugees support Assad.

I support more pressure on Assad from the U.N.

Approximately a hundred thousand people died before the chemical attack. And not just by the Assad regime. It's a nasty civil war that's turned sharply sectarian.

The reason that a solution is so elusive is that the realistic options are all horrible: The rebels win and get rid of Assad? What happens after that? The civil war continues as the various factions fight one another for power, a potential genocide of the Alawite people and ethnic cleansing of Christians?

U.S. intervention, particularly unilateral intervention- and we stand functionally alone on this with the possible exceptions of France and Turkey- is fraught with peril. It could make the whole bloody mess even bloodier, not to mention further fraying U.S. relations and serious blowback.

[sendero]

35. My plan.....

.. is that favored by a solid majority of Americans who are beginning to WISE UP.

Leave them the fuck alone, there is nothing we can do about their civil war.

[KittyWampus]

29. Assad is going to kill a lot more civilians as he gets more desperate. Obama isn't the stupid one.

[cali]

34. Both sides will kill a lot more civilians. In any case, Assad will certainly

become more desperate if the U.S. attacks.

oh, and I never said Obama was stupid. try reading for comprehension, kitty.

[JoePhilly]

30. I was very upset when he tied Syria to 9/11 and the Pearl Harbor attacks.

And all that talk about mushroom clouds bugged me too.

And then ... that commercial he did with the little girl and the daisy ... then POOF.

Way, way over the top.

[sendero]

36. The overselling..

.... reminds me of a used car salesman trying to get me to buy a car that he knows and I know is a piece of shit.

If they had a good reason that they were willing to share with us for hitting Syria, they wouldn't have to bark and croon like Kerry is right now.

I've never seen him get so worked up, not when people were claiming his entire military service history was a lie even. But he can sure put on the Thespian on Steroids act right now.

[woo me with science]

39. Boy, did you nail this one, Cali.

We are no longer adults engaged in conversation with our representatives about important issues that affect our lives. Not in their view, anyway.

We are targets of incessant advertising, an obvious imagined audience of half-witted, highly emotional children. The rhetoric appears to employ the same assumptions about us that are used to sell sugared breakfast cereal.

I think people are sick to death of it.

I don't know if you saw the thread with the video clip in which the Prime Minister for Labor (?) in Australia responded to a pastor challenging his support of marriage equality. What struck me in that interchange, beyond the powerful content, was how conversational and mature/adult the response was. There was no use of facile, patronizing soundbites or slogans, and the audience was assumed to be adults capable of intelligent thought and mature moral and ethical considerations.

It was shocking in a way, because we just don't see that here very much, and we forget how political conversations between representatives and constituents *should* sound in a healthier system.