The fear mongering that Kerry is engaging in on Chris Hayes' show is disgusting.

[The Link]

If we don't act: Israel is in danger. Iran will be emboldened. Jordan will fall.

What the fuck? Fuck this bullshit.

[mike_c]

1. Kerry is flogging the war drums as hard as he can....

eom

[chimpymustgo]

3. Have you EVER seen him so animated?? This is weird!!

And his face...

Col. Larry Wilkerson (Ret) on now with some sanity.

Asking, what happens next?

[The Link]

5. Its disturbing.

[whatchamacallit]

28. A cyborg wearing Kerry's skin n/t

[n2doc]

35. Maybe it is the mind of Dick Cheney

Using some alien technology (cue the x-files theme)

[morningfog]

40. It is all very weird.

[Thinkingabout]

2. Can you prove he is wrong?

[Incitatus]

8. Can you prove God exists? nt

[Thinkingabout]

14. Nope you dont have proof, just what I thought.

[Maedhros]

91. The burden of proof is on the person making the claim that we have to go kill people.[n/t]

[Hydra]

12. Can you prove he's not working for Bush? n/t

[Thinkingabout]

18. I don't have a need to prove he is or is not working for Bush.

[Hydra]

20. Then you prove that you don't actually care where Kerry's information is coming from

But there is a fact about Kerry's past that brings him closer to Bush than any of the other candidates. Both Bush and Kerry are members of a secretive society dating back to their respective days at Yale University - Skull and Bones. This fact has not been widely reported but when Kerry's campaign spokesperson was asked about it, she said, "John Kerry has absolutely nothing to say on that subject. Sorry."

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines04/0122-10.htm

The burden of proof is on Kerry(and you by proxy) to prove this intel is not bogus when it's exactly the same script Bushco used.

[Incitatus]

22. The burden of proof argument went over his head. nt

[Thinkingabout]

23. My goodness, this is like saying if you are a citizen of the Unitef States you are guilty of every

Thing its citizens have ever committed.

[phleshdef]

59. Oh christ, Skull and Bones conspiracy theory bullshit? Really? Is that what we've become?

[Hydra]

61. Skull and Bones is a conspiracy?

I don't recall anyone saying it was untrue, or that the Bushes and Secretary Kerry aren't members.

[pkdu]

110. Yep, it's exactly where this has descended to....disgusting isn't it? Nt

[VanillaRhapsody]

26. How do you prove a negative? LOL

[Iggo]

107. Nope, you don't have proof. Just as I thought.

[babylonsister]

29. What? nt

[cui bono]

21. He's making the assertion, he needs to prove it. Since you're defending him,

would you care to take a stab at it?

[Thinkingabout]

24. Ok , I did not make an accusation in the first place, no one has come up with valid proof

So I conclude there is not any valid proof.

[cui bono]

25. Yes, there is no valid proof for what Kerry said.

Is that what you're saying? I agree with that.

[Thinkingabout]

36. Did I say that, dont go off on your merry-go-round. You need to read the entire thread to

Understand before you start spinning what you want me to say.

[Incitatus]

46. You asked for proof that he is wrong.

Most people would infer from that question that you believe his accusations.

If you do not believe his accusations, then please say so. If you do, then please say why?

[Thinkingabout]

50. WTH, if you have proof he is lying give it up, donT beat around the bush, you do not have proof or

You would provide it. If you don't have the proof then just say you don't and get off your spin.

[neverforget]

55. You can't answer it so you play word games.

[Incitatus]

60. Yes, we have seen this kind of poster many times before on DU. nt

[cui bono]

92. This. ^

Went around with this one about something not long ago. Playing games s/he is.

[Incitatus]

56. You don't understand that burden of proof belongs to the one making the accustations, huh? nt

[Thinkingabout]

73. You need to respond to the link, this was the post I ask for the proof.

[Incitatus]

95. My assumption was correct. nt

[cui bono]

90. Not spinning, that's why I asked the question. No reason to get upset.

Then you weren't talking about Kerry? You really didn't write that very clearly you know.

So again then, my original question to you... do you care to take a stab at backing up what Kerry said? He made the initial assertion so it's up to him to provide the proof of what he is claiming.

[Thinkingabout]

99. You see, you dont follow conversations very well, I ask for proof from the poster who said Kerry was

Lying and you jump off on a spin and did not know what you was responding. Don't jump into a spin unless you understand where it started and where it went, you need to back up and realize I ask for the proof and now you are complaining I did nit answer your original question of which I will answer where is your proof Kerry is lying, follow the conversation before you spin.

[cui bono]

100. No, you don't follow logic. You see you aren't trying to discuss or deal with anything

you just want to play word games. You must have seen in your lifetime, since you are able to read and write, how discussions work.

Kerry made the assertion, so let's see if it's true. You don't seem to be willing or able to make a case for it since I've asked you twice to do so.

So I can play your game and simply say that you have no proof. So there.

[Thinkingabout]

111. It is obvious you can not follow the conversation, I am still waiting for proof Kerry lied, you can

not supply this information, when you are able to follow the conversation and answer my original question then the conversation can continue but logic doesn't come easy to you.

[cui bono]

113. Repeating things doesn't make them true.

I look forward to reading you say almost the exact same thing again. Wonder how you'll phrase it next time... try to be creative.

Sorry, I forgot the game we were playing... my turn: So I see you have no proof.

Okay, now it's your turn. I can't wait!

[VanillaRhapsody]

106. which assertion is your major malfunction?

still trying to figure out what you are trying to "gotcha" here with...

[cui bono]

112. You can't figure it out because I'm not playing "gotcha".

[morningfog]

41. Yes. Don't attack, watch what happens.

[Thinkingabout]

63. No proof

[morningfog]

67. Give it time. Proof. Actually, look right now proof.

We haven't attacked. Jordan stands. Israel has not been attacked. Prooooooooooooooof,

[rug]

51. The burden is in him but, do you think Syria is in a position to attack Israel now?

[Thinkingabout]

65. No proof

[rug]

66. Is that a no?

[Thinkingabout]

70. You don't have the proof either.

[rug]

74. I'm not the one claiming Syria is threatening Israel.

You lose.

[Thinkingabout]

77. You lose, my thread is do you have proof Kerry is lying.

[cui bono]

94. No, we ALL lose. But you'd rather play games on a message board than take issues seriously.

[markpkessinger]

105. It isn't "your thread" . . .

. . .it's a subthread of the OP. And when any politician is calling the country to engage in an act of war -- which missile strikes, in fact, are under international law -- it is up to that politician to support his claim, and not to everyone else to prove him wrong. The default option in any civilized country is for peace; anyone proposing a deviation from that default stance must make their case, and so far, the Administration has failed to do so convincingly.

[markpkessinger]

58. I believe the onus is on the Administration to prove he's right n/t

[Thinkingabout]

68. No proof

[LondonReign2]

62. You know a negative cannot be proven, right?

You understand logic, right?

Probbaly not.

[Thinkingabout]

69. yep, I understand logic, you dont have proof either.

[LondonReign2]

76. Nope, you sure don't don't

Nor will you investigate why you don't.

[Thinkingabout]

78. Do you work for FOX, you spin but you dont have proof Kerry lied.

[dgibby]

81. And you, obiviously, don't have proof that he's not lying. n/t

[VanillaRhapsody]

108. but you went into watching it with the preconceived notion that he was going to lie...

So no matter what you said you were going to call him a liar...

[dgibby]

114. You must get all your exercise jumping to conclusions.

[cui bono]

119. lmao...

I'm gonna use that line in the future if you don't mind.

[dgibby]

120. Go for it!

[VanillaRhapsody]

121. like what I said wasn't true...you didn't deny it did you?

[dgibby]

122. What you said wasn't true.

You have NO IDEA what I think(if you did, you'd stop posting your nasty, disingenuous drivel), and I NEVER called Kerry a liar, but you know that. I merely pointed out that there is no proof available to the general public to verify if he is or is not telling the truth. Indeed, what you said wasn't true, but I would expect no less from you. Reading comprehension and thoughtful discussion are not in your wheelhouse. Now, begone. I have already violated my cardinal rule twice-that is, to never engage in a war of wits with an unarmed person by even responding to you.

[LondonReign2]

85. It's Ok

Maybe this will help:

http://www.amazon.com/Logic-For-Dummies-Mark-Zegarelli/dp/0471799416#reader_0471799416

[sabrina 1]

72. Can you prove the Russians evidence showing that the 'Rebels' used CW is wrong?

Or can you prove that the first reports on the Social Media begging for help from on the ground right after it happened, claiming that the 'rebels have gassed us' are wrong?

Hey, here's a thought. How about we let the International Community conduct a thorough investigation, out in the open, with all the evidence out there for the world to see, eyewitnesses, UN inspectors, the US, Russia, all of it, out in the open. Iow, let's abide by the rule of law for a change.

[VanillaRhapsody]

109. where did that story come from RTV?

And if they determine that Assad did use Sarin....what do you say should happen then?

So tired of this line being used to try to make some appear reasonable..

[Spitfire of ATJ]

89. Yup. The rest of the world is sitting it out....

It's like when the Bush Administration claimed civilization itself was in danger and the rest of civilization didn't give a fuck.

[cali]

115. It's up to the admin to prove they're right. burden of proof on the claimant and all that

[PDJane]

6. Anyone who says that Israel is in danger is lying.

Israel is a superpower in the middle east. She's well armed and completely militarized. The only country liable to defeat her is the US.

[Cleita]

11. Not only that we are by treaty required to come

Israel's aid if attacked. Israel has not been attacked nor threatened by Syria or the rebels.

[Cleita]

7. Yep. We have fallen for the same bull shit

over and over and the results have always been disastrous and yet here we go again.

[NightWatcher]

9. maybe he had a bad reaction to the anesthesia from his face lift

He acts like he's having a roid rage meltdown. Has his piss been tested for Performance Enhancing Drugs?

[The Link]

13. I don't think I've ever seen him so passionate about something.

[VanillaRhapsody]

27. perhaps there is a reason for that....He is privy to things we are not...

[Bluenorthwest]

32. Like he was privy to things about Saddam's WMD?

Without question, we need to disarm Saddam Hussein. He is a brutal, murderous dictator, leading an oppressive regime ... He presents a particularly grievous threat because he is so consistently prone to miscalculation ... And now he is miscalculating America's response to his continued deceit and his consistent grasp for weapons of mass destruction ... So the threat of Saddam Hussein with weapons of mass destruction is real..."
- Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Jan. 23. 2003



"When I vote to give the President of the United States the authority to use force, if necessary, to disarm Saddam Hussein, it is because I believe that a deadly arsenal of weapons of mass destruction in his hands is a threat, and a grave threat, to our security and that of our allies in the Persian Gulf region. I will vote yes because I believe it is the best way to hold Saddam Hussein accountable." —Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Oct. 9,2002

[VanillaRhapsody]

33. He was INTENTIONALLY given false information...

Bush and Cheney made sure of that....

[dflprincess]

48. Yet 22 other Senators and most of us here

had some serious doubts about what we were hearing.

[arikara]

54. Thing is, the millions of us who took to the streets all over the world knew it was flimsy and false

the only ones who believed Bush and Cheney were those ones who voted to attack. Same as now. So are they murdering liars, psychopaths or are they just downright gullible and stupid.

Change and hope. Right on.

[VanillaRhapsody]

79. So change means...we never ever ever ever ever ever ever....do anything about someone using chemical

weapons? Do I have that right? Not even if they kill hundreds of thousands? How many do you need to see gassed...what is your threshold?

The difference in this case....we have a democratic president and we KNOW that Sarin gas was used on those people. With Bush/Cheney...that was just something they said...it wasn't a reality. They even cooked up the little evidence they had.

I have been closely watching this administration....it definitely doesn't have that same cockiness...that smirky attitude about war and invasion....they (Bush, Cheney et. al.) enjoyed it! It was stomach churning to watch.

I do NOT believe that Barack Obama relishes an attack...I do NOT think he takes such a decision lightly...and I also know he is a man who dearly loves his wife and kids....and I believe he takes their futures into consideration in all his major decisions. His love for his family makes me trust his judgement even more. He has surprised me again and again. He is very calculating and patient. In light of all of his opposition....over and over in all sorts of situations the Republicans have tried to trip him up....he just adjusts and turns the tables back on them. I am coming to expect that now...I am going to wait patiently to see what he will do this time. I have been pleasantly surprised a number of times already. Underestimate him at your peril.

[morningfog]

101. Who said never a bunch of evers do anything?

There is a lot that can be done. The worst possible thing is a military response from the US.

[HooptieWagon]

75. All he had to do was read the unredacted intelligence report.

Bob Graham was begging Senate to read it...he did, and he KNEW the WMD story was utter bullshit.
If Kerry was fooled, then he's too stupid to be in public office. All he had to do was read.
And now the same bullshit is being served again, and Kerry is holding the platter. No one is buying it, except the willfully ignorant and gullible.

[VanillaRhapsody]

82. Bullshit...WE know for a FACT that Chemical Weapons exist....

not the "same bullshit".

That statement is ridiculous on its face.

[HooptieWagon]

86. Sure Saddam had CW and used them...we sold them to him.

The argument being made to invade Iraq was that he posed an imminent threat to the US. He never was...that was complete bullshit. Nuclear program was long abandoned. Only a few CW with 20 yo dates , long expired...US markings. No means of delivering weapons. Saddam simply wasn't a high priority, especially since we were already bogged down in A-stan.

[karynnj]

93. The context of those quotes is interesting

The first was a speech given at Georgetown - and the main phrase reported from it was a call "NOT TO RUSH TO WAR" That part of the speech acknowledged a truth - that Saddam was bad. Note how many ellipses are in this quote - that is a pretty good clue that something is being distorted. The speech called for allowing the inspectors to continue their work and to exhaust diplomacy.

The other is his IWR, you ignore the part before that which lays out the promises Bush made - that he would push for and allow inspections, would work with the UN and most importantly - go to war as a last resort. After that list, he said that if Bush did not do these things, he would speak out. Note that he says Saddam with WMD is a threat -- not Saddam has WMD. It was the POSSIBILITY that he had WMD that led Kerry to agree that inspections - that had not happened for 4 years were needed - and as he said - he wanted to give Bush the leverage needed to do that.

Note that it was CHENEY who excepted those speeches and speeches of others - including Clinton, Kennedy and Dean to make the case that Democrats pushed the idea that Saddam had WMD in 2005.

[morningfog]

43. Yeah, that's bullshit.

[Celefin]

116. Considering the fact that Putin has detailed knowledge of internal Syrian affairs...

Well.
*gasp* I wouldn't trust him.
You?

[karynnj]

39. Maybe because he has always been against things like chemical warfare

Not to mention - I did many many times - especially speaking of the environment and when speaking of things like the right to health care.

[former9thward]

80. Always against chemical weapons?

How come when the UN said the rebels used chemical weapons in May Kerry said nothing? http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/05/05/us-syria-crisis-un-idUSBRE94409Z20130505

[karynnj]

84. Why do you think Kerry countered people like McCain on the rebels?

He has always - even as he did here - noted that some of the Assad opposition is extremist - and he is against them. Kerry gave the SD estimat of the % of the opposition that are extremists. Your link does not say that SoS Kerry was asked for a statement. The fact is that there was concern about the "small scale" use by both sides. You might note that the reason Kerry continued reaching out to Assad long after he was condemned by everyone else was that he was aware that there were no good alternatives - and he said so,

[arikara]

37. I think that could be...

his unlined waxy face is downright scary. Or maybe they injected too much botox, it crossed the blood-brain barrier and made him crazy.

McCain is another one who's had "work" done on his ugly old mug. Its not very becoming either.

[karynnj]

53. His face is slightly tanned - he did take a few days vacation

Not to mention, he always has looked better when Teresa is with him - something that was very apparent in 2004 - especially when he e suddenly gave a speech at NYU on Iraq where she came in in the middle of his speech from an event she did. In the middle of a sentence looked more relaxed, more animated and happier - having nothing to do with that sentence. He finished his paragraph and then introduced Teresa to the audience. Last month, he was in near tears when he thanked people for their wishes for Teresa. Maybe he looks less worried because Teresa is much better.

Kerry's face has always looked very different depending on the lighting. (There was one day, where there were great pictures from a hearing in the SFRC that he chaired and horrible pictures from a Commerce or Finance committee meeting. The Boston Herald has repeatedly taken good pictures to claim that he had work done.

The fact is that there has not been more than 2 or 3 days in a row when he was not photographed.

Not to mention, I watched Kerry in his speeches and the SFRC hearing and - while you disagree with him, he is not crazy, but he explaining things that many do not want to hear.

[kentuck]

10. And the next cloud we see may be a mushroom cloud...

Made from yellowcake from Af-ri-ca....

[Hydra]

15. Do we have an intelligent blonde CIA operative to out

After her husband calls the Admin out for making stuff up?

If we're going to have a rerun, we may as well go the full mile.

[deutsey]

118. Mixed with the sparkling warters of the Gulf of Tonkin n/t

[City Lights]

16. Oh brother.

[Township75]

17. That blood thirsty war monster voted to invade Iraq and now wants another war.

Israel will be fine as will Jordan. Iran doesn't need Syria to feel embolden. Fuck him!

[LiberalAndProud]

19. I think I can illustrate that for you.

[dflprincess]

52. This is Archduke Franz Ferndinand

Discuss among yourselves: his death (June 28, 1914), how the domino theory applied in its aftermath and what it can teach us in regards to the sideshow so many are pushing for in Syria.

[grasswire]

30. I think something is wrong with John Kerry.

He's flying off the handle, challenging others, blustering.....just not himself.

[wandy]

34. I've been thinking that. Just not himself. nt

[dgibby]

88. I thought the same thing.

Maybe because he doesn't believe a word of what he's trying to sell? He's definitely trying way too hard to make the sale. He looks awful, too. Don't know if he had a bad face lift, too much botox, or some underlying medical condition, but he looks really bad.

[Catherina]

31. That was very disturbing. Video excerpt

[morningfog]

49. This is amazing.

It is as if his body is rejecting him, too.

[Catherina]

57. Here's the whole interview

I'm going to torment myself and watch it. He's made himself totally rejectable.

Part 1

Part 2

[LiberalAndProud]

98. 'discredited by their own judgments' Really. He said that.

http://www.reasons-for-war-with-iraq.info/john-kerry-10-9-2002.pdf

[The Link]

117. Really, unbelievable.

The whole interview was surreal. And he got really testy a couple of times when he was questioned.

[gopiscrap]

38. I agree and I feel bad about it because

I have voted and worked for him and have liked him all these years. I wonder if Hillary knew some of this shit would hit the fan right about now and that is why she got out?

[JI7]

42. Hillary called for involvement earlier on and she supports Obama right now

[gopiscrap]

45. yeah but she's not as front and center

and when she runs for pres. there won't be those film clips of her as sec of state to play with her advocating for a war that we are now mired in (early Nov. 2016) thinking

[JI7]

47. usually running for president while being sec of state would not work

[YvonneCa]

83. You're assuming logic. There's no logic in this...

...thread.

[otohara]

44. Have 100,000 People Been Killed?

and should we just let Allah work it out like almost VP Pailin suggests?

[LondonReign2]

64. Well shit,when are we invading China then? North Korea? Myanmar?

[Carolina]

71. Always knew it wasn't about some dead children

We are Israel's bitch!

[Autumn]

87. Israel is not in danger, they are heavily armed and they have the United States,

If they were attacked our military would swoop in. Every country knows that.

[WillYourVoteBCounted]

96. when did Iran invade another country? Just more lies

from a lying liar.

Guess he's saying what he is told to say.

Showing you how broken our system is.

[DeSwiss]

97. TERRA!!! TERRA!!! TERRA!!!

- They don't have anything else. It's all BULLSHIT. They KNOW it. And we KNOW it.

K&R

[libdem4life]

102. On another note...looks like Kerry had a face lift...is it just my imagination?

[doc03]

103. This bullshit sounds just like Iraq all over again. Kerry could

just as well be Rumsfeld, it's disgusting,

[David__77]

104. I agree. Kerry is acting in a disgusting fashion.

It's contemptible that anyone could possibly defend it.