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bigtree

(94,261 posts)
Sun Dec 18, 2011, 12:19 PM Dec 2011

President Obama was my fourth choice in the 2008 primary -- I took a lot of heat for the others

Last edited Sun Dec 18, 2011, 01:37 PM - Edit history (1)

I chose Richardson first because he came right out and said he'd pull all the troops out of Iraq immediately after assuming office. He had been a DLC moderate, but that promise was good enough for me because I actually thought he'd catch on -- and the other leading candidates were all establishment Democrats; meaning that they'd all been part of one compromise or the other with the opposition and were standard pols without any outstanding or inspiring policy achievements or initiatives. Run of the mill Democrats, which means to me they were good and reliable hedges against republican extremism and good and sometimes reliable vehicles for planks of a progressive agenda.

Two debates and a handful of fumbling answers, and Richardson was history.

I chose Edwards next, because he promised to focus on poverty. That unequivocal promise was in line with his work as a trial lawyer who had taken on wealthy and powerful interests on behalf of less fortunate victims and had won. He presented a good platform and sounded all of the populist notes that I wanted to hear out of a presidential candidate. I didn't hold any illusions at all that Edwards was 'one of us' or was a 'common man' or anything delusional like that, but I heard enough to trust that he would not only work the political system to the advantage of the folks he was advocating for, but that he wouldn't waver in holding the republicans accountable. There looked to be no love lost between the southerner and the south's beloved republican party.

Nonetheless, after a trouncing on Super Tuesday, I believe, Edwards was gone.

That left two major candidates (Obama and Clinton) and I intended to pick a leader who had enough support already to make a strong run in the general election. I had to choose between the two.

Both had been Senators. Both had sought to align their votes with the center of the political spectrum. Obama had actually made a few speeches about finding consensus with the opposition and the like, but Clinton had actually already established herself as a centrist in her votes and otherwise.

Obama looked like a strong progressive choice, but the pragmatism he was promoting throughout his campaign was the same type of centrist attitude that I had found exasperating in the years and years I'd followed almost every instigation of national government waiting for my Democrats to overcome the conservatives and establish more of our progressive ideals into action or law. After all, Congress had never been openly, and willingly accommodating to a progressive agenda since I'd been observing the institution. Progressive politics was always revolutionary when it managed to get a hearing in the Capitol -- and made controversial by the conservative media and their legislator cohorts the second it was signed into law. So Obama was selling the status quo. Fine with me as a Democrat always prepared for the long-haul, the long fight. I could work with that.

Hillary Clinton had all of Obama's qualities and more. There was, first and foremost, her husband who was a personal hero for me because he booted the goddamn republicans out of the presidency and spared me another term of Bush. He'd given me four years without listening to the drivel and antagonism coming from a republican presidency. Not only that, I'd raised my young family during those years (part during Reagan, part during Bush). We thrived economically, for whatever reason anyone wants to promote. My income rose, opportunities abounded, and we just thrived. It's hard to not miss that. I remember Mrs. Clinton's fight for health care reform. I remember how hard she fought and who her enemies in that fight were. I stood firmly in her camp during that battle. We certainly lost, but we did get CHIPS program for children's health insurance. All in all, those battles were why I was proud to identify myself as a Democrat.

So Mrs. Clinton already represented the best of the establishment of Democrats, to me. Moreover, she had already managed to achieve a large and diverse number of supporters which looked like a decent challenge to the republican nominee. She had it all. She was well-poised to upset the republican candidate, but, she was also well-positioned to challenge the republican party.

Here's my reasoning between the two: Hillary Clinton had a couple decades of pissing the republican party (and other conservatives) off so badly that her very presence in Congress seemed to retire a bunch of them. Yet, she legislated like a centrist with a good number of votes and with more than a few alliances with republicans on key legislation; not unlike Barack Obama had, in many respects.

The difference between them was that Obama was coming onto the political scene posturing and being widely perceived as a progressive. He was certainly an unconventional candidate to have achieved such a large number of supporters. Black with a funny, foreign-sounding name, to the opposition Obama looked positively revolutionary in comparison to his Democratic rival. To many of his supporters, he was the revolution.

Yet, Clinton had the opposite reputation among progressive Democrats. She had been at odds with that bloc on several key issues and initiatives, if not in complete opposition. Clinton had been a solid, establishment Democrat who voted the majority of times along party lines -- a good liberal on most legislation. But, she had developed a reputation on the left as a dreaded centrist.

To republicans, though, Clinton was the devil incarnate. It was hard for this lifelong Democrat to not appreciate that to the extreme. However, I had a different logic for settling on Clinton over Obama in the primary which was entirely political. I wanted to win he issues, on the policy, on the legislation.

I felt that Clinton had great motivation to move away from the centrist image and reputation that clouded her support and acceptability among party progressives. Like 'Nixon in China' she would be perfectly opposed to most every instigation from the republican opposition in a way that was personal and would be a definitive stand against her longtime rivals. No way would they give her an easy road, and no way a Clinton would back down from that fight. That's what I still believe.

Remember, in the primary, Mr. Obama chastised Mrs. Clinton for her confrontational stands. He promoted his intention to 'work with republicans' at every instance to advance his agenda. there looked (to me) to be a huge learning curve for the young candidate which I'd already lived through. There is no appeasing republican liars. That's practically all that are left in power in the Capitol. Perfect liars. I positively knew that 'cooperative' approach would mean that Obama's promise of transformational change was destined to be incremental, at best, and diluted with republican mischief-making initiatives and corporate appeasements.

I was also concerned with Obama's relative inexperience in military matters. Clinton had, at least, served years on the foreign relations committee. She had amassed a long record of direct involvement in foreign issues which often merged with military initiatives. She wasn't beginning from scratch, either with the policy or the relationships within the military community. I felt that Obama would need to rely too much on the Pentagon establishment for his decision-making and I saw few allies of his which gave me comfort that he'd be in a strong position to challenge the status quo.

Clinton also came to the table with her husband who had a Rolodex of military contacts who had helped establish a Democratic agenda during his two terms. I felt that her position and her political perception would more compel her to push against the conservatives instead of feeling (like Obama) as if she already represented the height of progressiveness and need to temper that to appease their right-wing views.

Of course, Hillary Clinton dropped off.

I eventually supported (strongly) and voted in favor of Barack Obama for president because I wanted to defeat the republican nominee. I also supported him because he's a good Democrat who recognizes and fights for the federal government's primacy in and responsibility for our social concerns and our general safety and welfare. I've never seen him as a dedicated progressive, but always as a pragmatist who sees more value in forging reasonable compromises than in just arguing. I always want more fight from the party and our President, but I recognize the political realities of the balance of power in the legislature and their limiting effect on the influence and effectiveness of presidential actions and proposals.

No one in our party, not in Congress or the White House, is falling on their swords in defense of our progressive agenda. There is still a committed bloc of progressive legislators always willing to stand firm when it's called for, and willing to bend when political reality only allows incremental progress on their ideals. This President has not been out of line with the efforts and intentions of the majority of our Democratic legislators. Most of them, including President Obama, are actively working to develop, propose, and initiate planks of our progressive agenda. In other instances, they are mostly holding the line against conservative meddling and obstruction within and without our party.

It's not perfect; it never has been, in my lifetime. Maybe the protests in the street will help transform their pragmatism into revolutionary action. It's a long-shot, but there's nothing to be accomplished unless we have our party in the White House and in control in Congress. That's not to say at all that success is somehow assured by a Democratic leadership, but there is absolutely NO way to advance ANY of our progressive ideals into action or law without first occupying these legislative offices.

That's why I am in strong support of our (assumed) Democratic nominee for president, Barack Obama. He's the best and only hope we have of keeping republicans from retaking the White House, and the best hope we have right now of advancing our Democratic and progressive agendas. Don't let anyone tell you different.

24 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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President Obama was my fourth choice in the 2008 primary -- I took a lot of heat for the others (Original Post) bigtree Dec 2011 OP
I chose Biden - still think it was a good choice. nt gateley Dec 2011 #1
I always liked Sen. Biden. Didn't always agree with him . . . bigtree Dec 2011 #4
I haven't always agreed with him, either, but I trusted him more than I did any gateley Dec 2011 #19
By the way, I think your OP is OUTSTANDING! gateley Dec 2011 #21
Thanks for your input Frances Dec 2011 #2
anyone who lived through that and fought it (daily) bigtree Dec 2011 #8
Nice post, bigtree. I too supported HRC over BO justiceischeap Dec 2011 #3
I hope the President's recent populism bigtree Dec 2011 #9
strong effort, mr big... blm Dec 2011 #5
always bigtree Dec 2011 #6
I also supported HRC but then went on to support Obama. beyurslf Dec 2011 #7
I too thought HRC would be a stronger president than Obama Frances Dec 2011 #11
Exactly. And any one of the bafoons currently running? beyurslf Dec 2011 #20
He was my third choice, after Kucinich and Edwards. kestrel91316 Dec 2011 #10
All the well traveled and established roads lead to a similar end. It makes no difference TheKentuckian Dec 2011 #12
and the rest is still nothingness. There is no viable coalition outside of the two parties bigtree Dec 2011 #13
well written post. dionysus Dec 2011 #14
I originally trended for Edwards. Ikonoklast Dec 2011 #15
Obama was my second choice, behind HRC. gulliver Dec 2011 #16
I appreciate your post DonCoquixote Dec 2011 #17
Any President would be in the same position. To say otherwise would be fantasy. maximusveritas Dec 2011 #18
President Obama was my first choice spanone Dec 2011 #22
"He's the best and only hope we have..." NYC_SKP Dec 2011 #23
I backed Clinton in her duel with Obama. bluestate10 Dec 2011 #24

bigtree

(94,261 posts)
4. I always liked Sen. Biden. Didn't always agree with him . . .
Sun Dec 18, 2011, 12:51 PM
Dec 2011

Last edited Sun Dec 18, 2011, 01:51 PM - Edit history (1)

but I liked and respected his willingness to explain his views in detail. I remember well that part of the Senate floor that he occupied as he paced back and forth while giving his lectures and advocated for or against some policy or the other.

He never caught hold in the primary and I abandoned him.

gateley

(62,683 posts)
19. I haven't always agreed with him, either, but I trusted him more than I did any
Sun Dec 18, 2011, 06:25 PM
Dec 2011

of the others.

Frances

(8,588 posts)
2. Thanks for your input
Sun Dec 18, 2011, 12:27 PM
Dec 2011

I will vote for Obama because, as a friend said, all the current Repub candidates are wacko.

I have lived to see what happens when someone like W gets in office. Just because a President is intellectually challenged does not mean he cannot do great damage in every area of our lives.

bigtree

(94,261 posts)
8. anyone who lived through that and fought it (daily)
Sun Dec 18, 2011, 01:58 PM
Dec 2011

what a nightmare. You get real careful around election time. I also remember the Gore nightmare . . . day after day. It was wrenching. You learn the value of winning and the utter, catastrophic tragedy of losing the White House. And, folks talk about these issues as if they can afford to defend them against republicans in the White House and in control in Congress. How can critics really care about the issues they advocate for and not accept SOME responsibility beyond their vote for making sure that republicans don't prevail?

justiceischeap

(14,040 posts)
3. Nice post, bigtree. I too supported HRC over BO
Sun Dec 18, 2011, 12:31 PM
Dec 2011

because I liked the idea that she would "stick it to" the Republicans, I also felt she was very familiar with their dirty tricks and would make a formidable foe for them. I'm in favor of compromise when it's needed but eventually, you need to step back and see that sometimes compromise just WILL NOT work and I think this House and Congress has proven that time and again. I voted and supported President Obama, I even, for the first time ever, contributed to his campaign and I will vote for him again in 2012 because I think a Democratic President is better for the nation than a Republican each and every time. That said, I don't have to keep my mouth shut when the person I voted for does something I don't like. I don't have to vocally support someone who isn't working for the people. I don't have to pat the President on the back when he bends over backwards and gives away things to Republicans that they are never going to be happy with. It's quite obvious the only the Republicans are going to do is everything they can to keep our President from doing anything; if there's a perfect time to stop trying to compromise, then now is that time. I think HRC would have known that long before now; hell, I don't think she would have gone as far as President Obama and in hindsight, I think that would have been better for our nation than the compromises Obama and Democrats have made over the last 3+ years.

bigtree

(94,261 posts)
9. I hope the President's recent populism
Sun Dec 18, 2011, 02:12 PM
Dec 2011

. . . is an epiphany and that he's on the top of his learning curve.

beyurslf

(6,755 posts)
7. I also supported HRC but then went on to support Obama.
Sun Dec 18, 2011, 01:43 PM
Dec 2011

I will vote for him again in 2012. I supported HRC because I didn't think she would take crap from the Republicans. i still believe that. I hope Obama finds the will to tell republicans to get on board or get out of the way after the next election. He needs to pull a Bush and claim a mandate from the people after the next election. regardless of the size of his win.

Frances

(8,588 posts)
11. I too thought HRC would be a stronger president than Obama
Sun Dec 18, 2011, 02:22 PM
Dec 2011

but after Obama won the primary, I supported him wholeheartedly.

McCain and Palin?! I don't think so.



 

kestrel91316

(51,666 posts)
10. He was my third choice, after Kucinich and Edwards.
Sun Dec 18, 2011, 02:21 PM
Dec 2011

As disappointed as I am about so much of what he has and hasn't done, he still is 1000 times better than McCain and Cruella de Tundra would have been.

 

TheKentuckian

(26,314 posts)
12. All the well traveled and established roads lead to a similar end. It makes no difference
Sun Dec 18, 2011, 02:25 PM
Dec 2011

who the line leader is if they take the troop in the same direction.

We have failed to change direction and have instead validated and assimilated much of the opposition's "common wisdom", even while attempting to smooth some of the sharper edges.

You flat out cannot represent a break from a suicidal course and in the same breath be ideology devoted to assimilating ideas, giving credence to others, and extending every effort to those who believe only in suicide.

We have a long way to go to climb out of the hole Reagan started digging in earnest but that cannot happen with a set of choices that will not break with him. Mr Obama is not a transformative figure but rather an 8th consecutive term for the evil old Gipper and such would be the case with any of the establishment pols.

It doesn't matter which face we select or what soaring rhetoric they use. They will all be essentially the same but presented as representitive of a certain demographic.

As long as we accept the establishment's options we will have establishment politicians and it won't matter more than a hair's breadth which one.

Choice in the system is an illusion.

bigtree

(94,261 posts)
13. and the rest is still nothingness. There is no viable coalition outside of the two parties
Sun Dec 18, 2011, 02:44 PM
Dec 2011

You need numbers to forge any new political direction, especially if you are talking revolutionary change. The obvious flaw in such reasoning as you've expressed here is that there is NOTHING in place outside of that political system which has ANY means of delivering on the very things you say you stand for.

Moreover, you're merely trying to influence the same political system as everyone else, albeit, promising some benefit from a type of anarchical posture against the 'system.' As inefficient, sometimes counterproductive, often idle, and sometimes threatening as our political system is, it is still the ONLY mechanism in place to even begin to deliver on the things folks say they want.

I think it's fine and admirable to push for an alternative, while railing against the present system. But, you can't then, credibly compare your NOTHING as a superior alternative against that political system. Show me the path to the jobs folks say they want. Not a winding, generations-long struggle to regain our footing after we've relinquished ourselves to the opposition (who manage to get what they want out of the government they say they, too, despise). Show me how your rebellion produces health care. Not in a couple of presidential election cycles.

Show me how you produce things like lifting the ban on pre-existing conditions. Show me how you manage to rescue the jobs of millions of folks in the auto industry with a political dream that you have shown little to none of the numbers of supporters willing to abandon the present system and sign on to your new and more enlightened one.

You've got a hand full of nothing more than a wish and a prayer and you still have the temerity to denigrate the folks who've managed to coalesce and work to actually reconcile the myriad of disparate and diverse interests, ideals, and concerns which are represented in our political system.

Railing from the outside is interminably righteous. It's much harder to work to forge the necessary coalitions of support to actually advance our ideals into action or law.

Ikonoklast

(23,973 posts)
15. I originally trended for Edwards.
Sun Dec 18, 2011, 03:04 PM
Dec 2011

That ended quickly, however, and I saw Hillary as a little too DLC, leaving me to support Obama.

There really was no other choice for me after the debates.

And in all reality, there is no other rational choice to vote for in the upcoming election.

NONE.

I see no other viable candidate, a winning candidate who could beat the Republican nominee in 2012 except Mr. Obama.

gulliver

(13,985 posts)
16. Obama was my second choice, behind HRC.
Sun Dec 18, 2011, 03:28 PM
Dec 2011

I remember how good things were under Bill Clinton, and I thought Hillary could help reestablish that. Also, she is extremely tough, and she is a brilliant speaker. During the debates, she basically chased Obama around the stage.

My greatest concern about Obama was not that he lacked toughness. He had that. My greatest concern was that some of Obama's supporters had their eyelids a couple of fractions too far open when they talked about him. I was afraid they were just a little crazy. I thought it would translate into us nominating someone who would have a hard time in the general election. I still think we would have lost if the economy had not completely collapsed. If America had been a little fatter and happier, McCain would have been elected, and the black guy whose name sounded like Osama would have been sent packing.

After seeing Obama in the office, I think he is a fantastic president, and I can't imagine Hillary or anyone else doing better. I think in his second term he will be much more assured and much stronger. Bush was dogged and weakened in his second term. His windfall, the false image of leadership he was handed on 9/11, faded. His personal tininess, his grotesque failures of leadership, and his sneaky-boy malfeasance caught up with him after 2004. Obama is another matter entirely. His essential strength, intelligence, and the outright wisdom of his approach to power will buoy him.

One miscalculation and disappointment. I thought that Obama's wide-eyed, "He's the Messiah" supporters from 2008 would behave very differently. I expected them to fight viciously for Obama against the Republicans. I thought that when the Republicans attacked Obama personally and blocked his every effort, his fans would scream bloody murder—at Republicans. I wish I had seen more of that. Very disappointing.

DonCoquixote

(13,960 posts)
17. I appreciate your post
Sun Dec 18, 2011, 04:12 PM
Dec 2011

Edwards was my first, though i will admit to being heavily anti-Clinton. I felt that she and Bill were the major reason the democrats moved right. Also, some of the Clinton's mistakes paved the way for our current mess (like the loss of Glass-Steagall), all the same, if she had won in 2008, I would be pulling for her now, because simply put, 2000 taight me that a vote based on Vanity disguised as "ideals" will not stop the GOP from getting in and doing damage.

maximusveritas

(2,915 posts)
18. Any President would be in the same position. To say otherwise would be fantasy.
Sun Dec 18, 2011, 04:22 PM
Dec 2011

The fact is that the troubled economy has kept the President from gaining the popular support he would need to be more aggressive in his agenda. This would be the case for any President coming into his situation. This is why I heard many Republicans almost relieved that they did not win in 2008 because they knew whoever inherited this mess would never be able to fix it in time for the 2012 election and might damage the party's brand in the process of trying. To be where we are right now, with a better than 50/50 shot of winning re-election is actually remarkable.

bluestate10

(10,942 posts)
24. I backed Clinton in her duel with Obama.
Mon Dec 19, 2011, 10:47 PM
Dec 2011

I am glad that I lost. The best possible person became President and has put together an impressive policy record. I can't see Clinton having been as successful a President.

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