An Ugly Rape Case Involving Vanderbilt’s Football Team Could Get Much Uglier

[coldmountain]

An Ugly Rape Case Involving Vanderbilt’s Football Team Could Get Much Uglier

This summer, five football players at the elite Southern school were arrested in association with the rape of an undergraduate. The events of the night in question are even more unsettling than had been previously reported.

http://www.buzzfeed.com/bobbyallyn/an-ugly-rape-case-involving-vanderbilts-football-team-could

[antiquie]

1. "alleged victim" sigh (nt)

[msongs]

3. until there is an actual conviction on charges, everyone involved is "alleged" nt

[antiquie]

6. Wow. I had no idea.

Is that true of theft victims, too? They have to identify and convict the criminal or the crime is only alleged? Times have changed.

[Nevernose]

11. Yes, or at least prove a crime occurred

A gunshot wound to the back probably doesn't need an "alleged" before their pronoun, but without proof of a crime having occurred, then the word "alleged" is fair. As in, "the alleged rapist is innocent until proven guilty." Opposite side of the same coin.

[antiquie]

25. I thought they had proof of the crime,

just not of the alleged perps. This is so hurtful to the alleged victim -- ignore your pain, you weren't really assaulted because we can't prove who did it. I am speaking as a grandmother, not as a feminist.

[antiquie]

43. Alleged:

Sources said that some time after the three other football players entered the room, objects were used to penetrate the victim, though it is not clear which defendants took part in this act. During the alleged assault, according to sources, Vandenburg took pictures and video on his phone, and later sent four individuals the graphic footage.

[stevenleser]

20. If you report it any other way than that, you can be sued. nt

[Donald Ian Rankin]

38. I think the usual defence makes a difference.

Technically, in any crime there's an implicit "alleged" when one talks about a victim but no-one has been convicted, but most people don't bother to make it explicit.

In most crimes, when someone is caught and charged, they either plead guilty or say "I didn't do it, someone else did". So omitting the "alleged" when referring to the victim isn't actually contradicting anyone.

But men accused of rape not infrequently claim "we had sex, but it was consensual". In those cases, if you omit the alleged, you're explicitly saying "I think the accused is guilty".

Arguably, that's not an unreasonable thing to do - there are no accurate statistics, but very few people claim that anything other than a very large majority of men charged with rape are guilty.

But I think it's worth being aware that if you refer to someone who says "I've been robbed" as a victim of theft, you're unlikely to be taking an implicit stance on the outcome of a court case, whereas if you refer to someone who says "I've been raped" as a victim of rape, you're quite likely to be. You may well *want* to do so, on not unreasonable statistical grounds, which is fine, but it's something to be aware of.

[pnwmom]

4. Crystal Mangum was an alleged victim of the Duke Lacrosse team.

And only an alleged victim.

[Donald Ian Rankin]

39. But unusual in that respect.

1) Most women who say that they have been raped really have been.

2) The ratio of rape victims to false accusations of rape is *significantly* higher than the ratio of accusations of rape to false accusations of rape, which is already pretty high.

[pnwmom]

40. That is true. But the same arguments you make here were made in her case.

We were all encouraged to believe her (and I did, for a time) because victims rarely lie.

Since then, I adhere more strongly than ever to the principle of "innocent till proven guilty." There will be a trial in the present case soon enough, and then we will have access to all the evidence, and how it applies to each of the alleged perpetrators.

[seabeyond]

41. false rape falls along 2-3%. along with all other crimes. interesting point in your post above. nt

[Donald Ian Rankin]

42. I think you claim far more confidence than the evidence justifies.

Adding an order of magnitude to your error margins, I am pretty confident that at least 0.2% of accusations of rape are false, and not more than 30%. But there just isn't anywhere near solid enough evidence to be sure of much more than that - certainly, stating baldly that you know the number to within 1% cannot be justified.

[chervilant]

2. "I was just having a little fun!"

"I bought her dinner!"

"She wanted it!"

"We were making love!"

"I didn't mean anything by it!"

"I couldn't help it; she was dressed like a hooker."

"Boys will be boys!"

Wonder which excuse they'll trot out this time...

[pnwmom]

5. Rape is a terrible crime; but this accusation still remains to be proven in court. n/t

[Hippo_Tron]

7. Lots of anonymous sources, no real evidence that Franklin tried to cover it up...

If he did he should be fired. But thus far all I see is more... "lowering academic standards for football allows in riff-raff who commit rape". Hate to break it to everyone, but people with 4.0 GPA's and 1600 SAT scores also commit rape.

[Donald Ian Rankin]

12. As often? I'm afraid I think that your claim, while technically accurate, is probably misleading.

[mythology]

13. Considering the overwhelming number

of rapes and other sexual assaults are committed by somebody known to the victim, I would assume that actually most rapists largely share their victims' socio-economic status. I don't have time to research the numbers on this at the moment, but I will try to find something one way or another.

[Bluenorthwest]

33. It is odd that you substitute 'socio-economic status' for the '4.0 and high SATs' the other poster

spoke of. Do you really think money equals brains?

[Donald Ian Rankin]

37. Equals, no, but there's correlation. Not sure it's relevant here, though.

I'd expect university to largely control that out.

[Hippo_Tron]

53. Show me evidence to the contrary...

I'm telling you from some ugly personal experiences and from friends' ugly personal experiences, that plenty of people with high GPA's and good SAT scores at elite universities commit rape. If you have a study showing that they do it less than football players who were admitted with sub-par grades and scores, I'd love to see it.

[msanthrope]

14. Failure to report the incident...of which he was aware...is going to be the basis

of charges against him. You wait.

[Sissyk]

27. I don't see how in this case.

Charges from whom?

Vanderbilt Security saw something; apparently, something horrendous; while looking at tape for a totally unrelated incident. Security then immediately notified Metro Police. Metro Police took over. Coach Franklin and Vanderbilt almost immediately dismissed the players from the team.

I think, in this case, it is being handled properly while protecting the victim at the same time.

[msanthrope]

45. The surveillance tape isn't the issue...it's the other media evidence. Apparently

there was dissemination of other media evidence that may have been covered up by the team and its affiliates. with something of this magnitude happen without the coach knowing? I think the prosecution should investigate that thoroughly.

[Sissyk]

48. Well, it may happen, I guess.

I can tell you that Metro Police has said Vanderbilt Security, the Chancellor, Athletic Department, and Coaching Staff have been nothing but 100% helpful.

In addition to the rape charges and sexual assault charges, Vandenberg has been charged with unlawful photography and tampering with evidence. A fifth, has been charged with accessory after the fact for allegedly advising Vanderberg over text message to delete pictures and videos he had taken. Two more, for tampering with evidence. These two are former team mates somewhere in California of Vandenbergs, not at Vanderbilt.

I'm pretty sure the Coach is in the clear on this one. All the ones arrested? If found guilty, I hope they all serve full sentences.

If more rape cases were handled like this one is being handled, more girls and women may come forward in the future. That is my hope.

[Sissyk]

26. This is the first article I've seen trying to place

blame for any cover up on Coach Franklin.

Just so everyone knows, all four were dismissed from the football team almost immediately following these allegations. They had not been charged yet, but were dismissed from the team. Not suspended until further notice or action; but dismissed.

There has not been a cover up at all in this case, thank goodness.

The DA's Office, Vanderbilt Security, and Metro Police have made a remarkable effort to protect the victim until the case goes to trial.

[seabeyond]

29. that is how i have read it. nt

[gopiscrap]

8. Interesting once again the priveledged

might get away with it.

[gopiscrap]

9. BTW Welcome to DU

[coldmountain]

10. Thank you

[msanthrope]

15. There's video that will become public soon. Let's see who is smart

enough to take a plea and run.

[seabeyond]

16. a rape video coming out for public viewing? well, as long as we are all entertained, ...

[tammywammy]

17. Video from the hallway security camera, I would assume.

Not video of the actual rape.

[seabeyond]

18. let us hope. that is all. presonally, sounds to me like people are handling this much more

professionally than what i have seen in the past.

[msanthrope]

22. I wouldn't be too sure of that. in particular the ancillary charges didn't get laid because

of a mere surve.illance video

[Sissyk]

28. I'm not sure about that, tammywammy.

They had enough to charge the players with five counts of rape each and two counts of aggravated sexual battery each. Unless one of them started talking before they were charged, it had to be something on tape. Hopefully, we won't see that tape.

[msanthrope]

19. Evidence tends to be public. And why shouldn't it be public? nt

[seabeyond]

21. why shouldnt the degradation and abuse and rape of an unconscious girl be made for everyones view?

yes. this is the mentality i address.

why?

hm, cant think of a damn reason why.... a victim, unconscious, abused in such a disgusting manner, should not be used to entertain all the sickos that have to get a look.

why, oh why.

you tell me.

[msanthrope]

23. I think it should be handled as all other evidence of other crimes is handled.

If the prosecution wishes to gag the evidence for the duration of the trial that's really up to the judge then.

[seabeyond]

24. this is NOT like all other crimes. so the lawyer in you would know what an asinine argument

that would be.

as a woman and a woman that speaks for women, not to mention a lawyer, that fact alone so many rapes are not reported, the thought a video like this would be allowed to be viewed by the masses would only reinforce GIRLS and women staying quiet with rape and not reporting.

it is beyond wrong.

but WTF msanthrope. lets fuck the victim all over again to appease our own perverted curiosity.

[JustAnotherGen]

32. +1

[msanthrope]

44. Seabeyond... as a woman who speaks for other women, do

you think that the cause of women would be better served by your being able to rationally discuss the disposition of evidence in a rape trial? I think it would be, and I am implore you to do so.

FYI..the victim in this case was not "fucked." She was raped. There's a difference. The former implies a consensual act. The latter is a horrible crime of violence. But the responsibility for that violence is not hers...it should be theirs.

Courts in America do not suppress evidence generally. I don't see a reason for court to do so here.

In reading your response it seems that you have conflated the difference between evidence being available in a courtroom and evidence being available in the media. As I restricted my discussion to the former I would implore that you do so too when addressing me.

[seabeyond]

47. video to become PUBLIC soon. now, if you were not talking public public, but court public,

you know, evidence, then my bad. because when you used the term public, i thought you were ACTUALLY referring to public. not court where evidence is presented.

[msanthrope]

49. As the article indicated, in 2 weeks there is a court hearing. Court. Open to

the public. And the media. I generally find reading the articles helpful.

[Stargazer09]

30. Ugh

I hope justice is served.

That poor young woman is heroic for staying at the school to finish her degree.

[seabeyond]

34. That poor young woman is heroic for staying at the school to finish her degree.

i thought so, also. yes.

[RiffRandell]

31. Yet they took back Marcus Dixon's full football scholarship after he was released from prison.

He didn't rape anybody. Assholes.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marcus_Dixon

[Sissyk]

35. That wasn't Vanderbilt. n/t

[KamaAina]

46. Wiki disagrees.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marcus_Dixon#Early_years

Dixon was a grade A student at Pepperell High School and excelled on the football field to the point where he had been offered a full scholarship at Vanderbilt University, but due to his court case and conviction he was unable to take on this opportunity.

[Sissyk]

51. My bad!!

I was wrrrrrrrrr........wrrrrrrrrooooo..........wrong!!

[Jenoch]

36. This case appears to be a situation

where cell phone videos and social media are helpful, to the prosecution. If the facts of the case released so far are true, I hope these guys do the maximum time Tennessee law provides.

[Sissyk]

52. +1

Right there with you.