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(45,558 posts)
Mon Sep 9, 2013, 01:16 AM Sep 2013

How cute....

We all thought that maybe this time, this president would be different.

Hope that this president would at least keep the interests of those who need it most and change that would at least take some measure of those who gain the most from this country to start to pay for what they keep...

Well, we can all gather, there truly is one continuum, one that we could stretch all the way back to those who came to this country. That continuum has, more and more, etched the reality that class mobility, once the American Dream, is a nothing more than myth.

Sisyphus comes to mind.

I have been at this game since I, a lad of 11, joined up with some Hippies to bring environmental issues to the good people of the Western suburbs of Cleveland.

When I was 13, I organized a five minute walk out from my Junior High to protest against the Vietnam War.

The more that things change, the more they stay the same...

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(111,837 posts)
1. I think the story of Tantalus is more appropriate
Mon Sep 9, 2013, 01:24 AM
Sep 2013

The American Dream is still there but every time people try to reach it, debt gets in the way and moves it farther away, just out of their grasp.

Hope and change are out there, too, only to fade away when people reach for them, especially if they try to organize to get them.


(150,344 posts)
2. We thought he might be different...
Mon Sep 9, 2013, 01:24 AM
Sep 2013

Oh well..........he's not.

I agree with your example of Sisyphus.


Common Sense Party

(14,139 posts)
3. Nope. It's Hercules cleaning the Augean stables. Joe Biden warned us.
Mon Sep 9, 2013, 01:30 AM
Sep 2013

He said it would happen in the first 6 months--he meant first 6 years.

Gird up your loins.
A generated, international crisis to test Obama's mettle.
He's gonna need us.
Need our help.
To stand with him.
Initially, it won't be apparent that we're right.
Obama will clean the Augean stables.
We'll be asking 'why is this thing so tough?
Why are they down in the polls?'
They'll have to make the tough decisions.
"Remember the faith you had at this point because you’re going to have to reinforce us."




You decide.



(46,436 posts)
5. You are correct.
Mon Sep 9, 2013, 02:08 AM
Sep 2013

I didn't buy it, and I was scolded here.

I do agree with the last statement, though.. The more things change, the more they stay the same.


(45,558 posts)
7. He wasn't my first choice in the Primary...
Mon Sep 9, 2013, 03:01 AM
Sep 2013

But I was sure that we would be better off with Obama in the White House.


(37,573 posts)
8. one sad thing though
Mon Sep 9, 2013, 06:14 AM
Sep 2013

is that all our mourning and name-calling and gnashing of teeth, sorta plays right in to the Republican narrative.

As some of us now say "I am sorry I ever voted for Kerry" that just allows all of the Bush voters of 2004 to say "tolda ya so".

One thing that was a huge setback though was - the elections of 2010. Republican obstruction paid off at the polls.

I also would take issue with your definition of the American Dream. If the American Dream is of class mobility, then it deserves to die. After all, class mobility in the upward direction is only possible if there is class mobility in the downward direction. Only 5% of the population can be in the top 5%. Anybody who gets into that group from the bottom 95% means that one of the 5% has fallen out of that group.

I prefer the Herbert Hoover vision - a chicken in EVERY pot. Meaning a good life for all. The second part of his campaign though, promised also "a car in every garage".

I was watching a PBS show about Henry Ford, and it sorta struck me. At one point, they said that mass ownership of automobiles changed American society - made it greedier. No longer was the ideal a sort of easy country life of laid back simple pleasures. Now people wanted to go exciting places and do exciting things.

Now the good life as pictured by the average American goes way beyond chicken or cars. It includes an ipad, a plasma TV with surround sound, a DVR, cable television, two or three cars per family, central air, microwaves, dishwashers, washing machines, dryers, electric can openers, and so on and so on.

Plus, a constantly growing population. Are we on pace to reach 12 billion by 2050? Maybe not. The UN is projecting a peak of 10 billion or so by 2050.

But I go back to a quote from Gandhi - the earth supplies enough for every man's need, not for every man's greed.


(32,017 posts)
11. I haven't seen anyone here say that they wish they had voted for W instead of Kerry.
Mon Sep 9, 2013, 08:10 AM
Sep 2013

Otherwise, I agree with the sentiments expressed in your post.



(37,573 posts)
12. here's the money quote
Mon Sep 9, 2013, 11:38 AM
Sep 2013

"but I can say that NEVER have I regretted a vote more than the vote I cast for him for President."

48 recs for that.

Well, at least Bush voters do not have to have that regret.

What was the alternative in 2004 to voting for Kerry. Either a) voting for Bush, or b) voting for a Nader who would help Bush to get re-elected. To me, to say, in retrospect that you regret voting for Kerry is to say that, now, looking back, you are glad Bush got re-elected.


(45,558 posts)
13. the democrats dropped the ball, as they usually do, when it comes to
Mon Sep 9, 2013, 11:22 PM
Sep 2013

any elections except the presidential.

They seem to have been behind the 8-ball every time a midterm election comes around.

The problem is the GOP has controlled the house because they control the redistricting process in a lot of states that went for Obama in 08 and the again 12.

Until the Democrats take control of the redistricting in places like Ohio, Wisconsin, Illinois and Pennsylvania the GOP will continue to own the House in DC.


(37,573 posts)
15. well we won big in 2006
Tue Sep 10, 2013, 02:23 AM
Sep 2013

which is more than can be said for 2004.

However, Republicans took control of the state legislators in the 2010 elections which were not just bad at the House level.

But blaming things on redistricting seems kinda lame to me. It says that Democrats do not have a message, or candidates, who will be able to reach voters. To get such a message and to get such candidates seems more vital, more real than just changing the districts. Screw that, let's go into the conservative districts and kick their useless a$$es!!

Instead of always looking, like Kansas does, for a rich person to run as a Democrat so we can raise the big bucks, let's win with small dollars and great messaging. Find a Russ Feingold, the underdog who won the US Senate race in Wisconsin against an incumbent Senator

"Feingold's senatorial career began in 1992, with a victory over incumbent Republican Senator Bob Kasten. Feingold, who had little name recognition in the state and was campaigning in a primary against a pair of millionaire opponents – Congressman Jim Moody and businessman Joe Checota" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russ_Feingold#1992_U.S._Senate

Find a George McGovern, or a Stephanie Herseth, who can win in a red state like South Dakota.

Don't tell me we cannot win because there are too many conservatives in a district. Represent the bottom 80% and win a majority of their votes, conservative, moderate, or liberal.


(45,558 posts)
16. I guess I am just a bit more jaded than most...
Tue Sep 10, 2013, 03:03 AM
Sep 2013

I spent the better part of 25 years working the electoral process.

2006 was war and Bush weariness.

So we held the house in districts that were designed for Republican candidates.


(9,841 posts)
9. They really outdid themselves with the Obama candidacy - I actually thought he was different.
Mon Sep 9, 2013, 06:19 AM
Sep 2013

I wasn't one of those falling over myself in admiration, mind you, I just thought this guy was honest, that he was different. And I never think politicians are "different."

B Calm

(28,762 posts)
10. A lot of us voted for Obama to end two wars, not to
Mon Sep 9, 2013, 06:30 AM
Sep 2013

start another one! I'm truly disappointed in Obama, but at the same time he saved us from going into another Great Republican depression.

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