Girl Shot in Yellowstone Died From Bullet Fired From Father's Gun

[NYC_SKP]

Note to GD Hosts: As this story involves a 2010 amendment permitting guns in National Parks, it seems of national interest.

Updates from yesterday: The child was only 3 years old, and it was reported that the handgun was in the control of the father, Per Christian Post:

Girl Shot in Yellowstone Died From Bullet Fired From Father's Gun

By Myles Collier, Christian Post Contributor
September 9, 2013|8:46 am

Authorities investigating the death of a young girl in Yellowstone National Park have stated that the child died from a bullet fired from a pistol operated by her father.

The death was the first such incident in Yellowstone National Park since 1978 and occurred at the Grant Village campground on the shores of Yellowstone Lake.

Information has been slow to be released as investigators continue with their investigation, but reports did indicate that the girl's mother called emergency dispatchers on Saturday to report that her daughter had shot herself at the popular lakeside campsite.

Emergency personnel were unable to revive the toddler whose name is being withheld until Monday at the request of the family, who are from Idaho, park spokesman Al Nash said.

http://www.christianpost.com/news/girl-shot-in-yellowstone-died-from-bullet-fired-from-fathers-gun-104053/

I think the 2010 amendment should be rescinded, guns aren't really necessary in parks. However, I don't blame the amendment for this death.

I think an idiot who brings his family from Idaho into Yellowstone with a loaded and unsecured handgun, and leaves it laying around for his child to find, is not really the type who would care one way or another about whether the law allows his gun in the park.

I grieve for the little girl.

[yesphan]

1. Hmmm.

"the child died from a bullet fired from a pistol operated by her father."
This line suggests that she was shot by her father, but the mother later suggests that the
girl shot herself.

Either way it is an awful day for that family.

[NYC_SKP]

2. It is confusing. A better word might have been "controlled" by her father.

One suggests that he pulled the trigger, the other that he was the owner and caretaker of the gun.

It's being investigated by US Park Service personnel and they few details have been release.

Family from Idaho, three year old victim, father's gun, not much more.

People with fucking lethal handguns, loaded, left accessible to children, that's crazy.

I feel for the entire family, but somebody might need to face some legal consequences.

It's still early.

[2naSalit]

3. Hmmm...

"...the child died from a bullet fired from a pistol operated by her father."

Sounds like he might have been holding the gun when it went off. Operation, in my estimation, means he was "operating" the device when it did it's thing.

I live about 50 miles from there, as the raven flies, and I find it just sad and indicative of our uninformed and irrational society at this point in time. I'll think about this incident every time I go into the park from now on, and that's rather often as I have to pass through the park to get to certain places in the region without needing to travel for two days to get to one of the near-by communities I go to in warm seasons. But I'm not surprised that the family is from Idaho.

Since this happened in a federally administered park, I wonder what the legal scenario will turn out to be. There is a court district within the park located at Mammoth HS, if you get a speeding ticket in the park or any other violation, you have to go to Mammoth to go to court at least at first.

[NYC_SKP]

4. The Feds will handle this as the park existed before any of the states were founded.

What I'm certain of is that there were guns going into that park when it was illegal just as there are now that they're permitted.

I'm dismayed by most of the reportage that's blaming the 2010 Coburn amendment when the responsibility lies with the negligent parent.

[Xithras]

6. Yes, there were a lot of guns in the parks before they were legalized.

It was the old "Better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6" mentality. Backcountry hikers on the PCT and in large parks like Yellowstone would carry them as a last line of defense against bears and wolves (rule #1: "you shoot it, you bury it&quot .

Prior to the Coburn amendment, people carrying firearms in the parks would keep them secured and hidden away because they knew that being spotted with one meant their arrest and, at a minimum, steep fines and the permanent loss of a several hundred dollar firearm. The Coburn amendment brought the firearms out into the open and relaxed the atmosphere around them, so you now see them in developed campgrounds (where they were almost NEVER seen previously), and laying around on tables. It's empowered the wannabes and paranoids to bring their guns into the park, and relaxed the hyper-vigilance that used to be displayed by those who carried them.

I don't really have a huge problem with allowing SOME firearms in the parks, but the Coburn amendment went too far. It should ONLY permit them in the backcountry, and should require that they be secured to a person, or secured by locking devices, at all times. Having an unsecured firearm sitting unattended in a park should be a felony.

[NYC_SKP]

9. You're the first to make a cogent argument tying the amendment to people's action, Zithras.

It's a shame that the journalist's couldn't have done the same.

Indeed, loosening of the law creates an environment where people can be more comfortable being negligent.

Isn't that just the saddest thing?

A girl dies because Dad doesn't have to worry about being busted for leaving a gun laying around?

[mikeysnot]

12. there are tons of good arguments

for sound gun control measures. It is just the guns are "free for all" at all cost crowds don't want to hear them or admit they are wrong and will always be wrong.

[2naSalit]

15. Agreed

The NP system handles all of these legal issues when they occur inside the boundary of said park, it's national forests and BLM land where the states can get involved. The majority of the park is in Wyoming so the park's jurisdiction applies. The portion of the park that is in Idaho (two miles wide by about 40 miles long) is a voting district with no residents and is the one small patch of the US where you can't be held accountable for crimes because there are no persons who could be called in for a jury, a little known technicality there.

Infractions dealt with at Mammoth are often dealt with more harshly than not for most. I know that a speeding ticket in the park is more than a slap on the wrist aside form travel expenses etc since the court isn't in session all year and I think it's three sessions a year or something like that. I've never had to go there but I know some folks from around here who have.

Certainly the amendment is stupid and a play for funding by the NRA. The prior regulation was a pretty stout deal and few violated it. Most of my neighbors and local folks are respectful of the former rule, if you were transporting a gun through the park (for folks like me who also go through the park to get from point A to point B when auto travel is allowed) most would dismantle their firearms, couldn't be loaded and not accessible while being transported. Regardless of the current rules, you still are not supposed to actually USE the gun as in discharge it within the park boundaries.

I'm interested to see how this shakes out, I suspect that there might have been a bit more to the demeanor of the parents at the time. Lots of trouble families go "camping" and bring their issues along with them and things get out of hand when in unfamiliar places more easily sometimes than when at home. There are plenty of domestic disputes among the tourons while on vacation... hell, most of those people can't drive when they get up on this part of the planet. It's like their brains just ooze out their ears by the time they get to 5K ft. elevation and it only gets worse thereafter. It's like they can't recognize stop signs. traffic lights or any other traffic control indicators that are pretty much universal throughout the country. And if you flew in to the Yellowstone area and rented a vehicle, you still have to drive some distance to get to wherever you were going and you will encounter traffic control elements... but I digress.

Anyway, I agree that the media are blowing it by blaming the the 2010 Coburn Amendment for this or at least alluding to it. But the locals don't know who this family is right now and I wonder who they are that they haven't been identified yet. And in these parts, a lot of negative news, like suicides, lack of snow, other stuff goes unreported on the national stage because the Chambers of Comm are afraid that such news will cut into profits for the gate communities by letting bad news be known so they control what news gets out. This issue probably will be put on page five of the local rags and tucked under some rug even then so it doesn't get noticed, especially since it's out-of-towners. A few years ago some Californian drove into a parking lot in a gate community and got out in front of a lot of visitors and blew his brains out with a shotgun, it was never in the local papers or anywhere else that I could find... bad news can't be told. This was let out by the Park news outlet and was only broadcast in Helena news, five hours from the park... and now a small outlet read only by a select audience.

There's a lot more to this and I suspect that this family is part of a larger dominant group in this region that is trying to protect its image.

[Bandit]

16. Except there hasn't been a reported shooting in the Park in over forty years UNTIL

They passed a Law saying people could carry guns into the Park and only a couple of years go by until the first shooting death there. Coincidence??? I don't think so..

[joeybee12]

5. That 2010 amendment was one of the more cowardly things Congress ever did...

No point whatsoever in having guns in a national park...none...follow the rules and everyone's fine...this shithead amendment was an accident waiting to happen, and that poor little girl paid the price.

[NYC_SKP]

7. I agree it was pointless. I don't think, however, that the amendment caused this girl's death.

I believe that most gun owners who would bring a gun camping would do it with or without this law.

And the nuttiest among them would do it while saying, "I don't have to obey a law that's unconstitutional."

That's what many gun nuts would say.

I think guns have been going into parks as long as there have been guns and parks, and federal laws haven't had a huge impact, especially with idiots who would leave a loaded handgun withing reach of their little girl.

[joeybee12]

8. I think some gun owners would think twice...

There used to be signs at all entrances about not bringing guns into the park...we can only wonder if this family would have obeyed the law prior to 2010 and not have brought guns then.

[NYC_SKP]

10. As Xithras so eloquently explained, the amendment invites carelessness.

They might have brought the gun with them pre 2010, but would likely have been a little paranoid about being caught and might have kept it more secure.

It's a shame that paranoia has a greater effect than common sense or love of your child.

Damn.

[joeybee12]

11. Yup, you'd keep it hidden; this guy had it out in the open...nt

[mikeysnot]

13. "I think guns have been going into parks as long as there have been guns and parks,"

you are basing your opinion on what? A poll? A survey, or your gut?

[Xithras]

14. Well, I can base it on a lifetime of backcountry hiking.

As long as there have been parks and people hiking in them, there have been people carrying firearms with them. How many and what kind really varies by park and location. Shenandoah? I'd be shocked if 1 in 100 backcountry hiking groups were armed. Muir? 1 in 10,000 tops. Yellowstone and Yosemite? The number is more like 1 in 5. Denali or Wrangell? It's probably safe to say that the majority of backcountry hiking groups have at least one armed person in their party.

Ask any park ranger. The presence of firearms has long been an open secret, and they existed under the assumption that an unseen, unheard, and secured firearm isn't going to harm anybody. If the rangers see it, or hear it, you're going to jail simply because you've either pulled it out or failed to properly secure it, and you've become a danger.

And yes, I've carried on more than one backcountry hike. I've never needed to use it, but I've been close enough to predators to realize that there's a real risk.

[2naSalit]

17. ...

but I've been close enough to predators to realize that there's a real risk.

And did you KNOW anything about these predators to KNOW that there is a real risk? I'm just asking because I have seen folks who say they KNOW something about predators actually KNOW very little to nothing about them and how to behave around them and then tell me that their gun works and that is all they need to know.

I never "carry" and I live with all the predators in my area... cats, bears, wolves, coyotes. Pepper spray works on all of them and the ones that many think they need protection from are the ones you don't really need to be concerned about.

TeeVee edumacation is a dangerous thing.

[NYC_SKP]

18. "TeeVee edumacation is a dangerous thing." is really uncalled for in this discussion.

I won't profess to know what Zithras' experience is.

I assume, absent evidence to the contrary, that everyone posting here is honest and legit.

It's easy to say that pepper spray is adequate, but I don't know, and I doubt that you can be as certain as you seem to be.

For national parks, I wouldn't personally feel a need for a firearm and would just as soon have pepper spray and a starter's pistol or other noisemaker.

But for someone else who spends time in the back country, properly trained and qualified, I wouldn't necessarily bar them from having a gun provided they can demonstrate competency.

[Xithras]

19. Lol.

Unlike most backcountry ignorant city dwellers, I actually grew up in rural California in mountain lion and boar country, so yes, I do know what "real risk" is. I've also stood less than four feet from a hungry black bear in the Sierra National Forest with a gun in my hand, and I didn't shoot it because I knew it's interest was in another hikers backpack, and not in any of the hikers in our party. Would I shoot a bear, wolf, or cougar that was actively trying to attack me or another hiker? Yes. Would I shoot an animal that is simply looking for food, or bluff charging to keep hikers away from its young? Absolutely not. Before the Coburn amendment, people who didn't know the difference went to prison.

The Coburn amendment has unquestionably increased the number of Discovery channel educated citified yahoos who DON'T know the difference, which is one of the reasons that I'd like to see it repealed.

[2naSalit]

20. I agree with points made here

unfortunately, because I live in a place where the number of tourists with TeeVee derived knowledge outnumbers the knowledgeable residents exponentially it is impossible to make much of a dent in that... the vast majority won't seek out information without lots of friendly encouragement.

The Coburn Amendment is stupid and dangerous and I agree that it should be repealed. Sadly, because in most places it's easier to get possession of firearms than it is to vote, we will probably be seeing more of this sort of thing. Just look at how much has actually happened to counter events like Newtown since that happened.

And thank you, for answering my question about "knowing" about predators and back country behavior, you never know about someone from their blog posts, you know what I mean?

I have lived here for decades and have seen some pretty dumb stuff that visitors who know everything do, especially the ones who figure out how to get here, tell me what I don't know and then ask what the elevation the deer turn into elk is.

On edit, finally the localized regional news on the radio is regurgitating the article cited above verbatim.

And the bear spray range is 30ft. The study that I mentioned claims that those who used firearms still were mauled on some occasions. I'll look for the citation.

[NYC_SKP]

21. Her name was Ella Marie Tucker.

Ella Marie Tucker - Obituary

Ella Marie Tucker, 3

Chubbuck, ID-Ella Marie Tucker, passed away following a tragic accident on Sat. Sept. 7, 2013. A full obituary will appear in a future edition of the Journal. Funeral services will be held at 11 a.m. on Thur. Sept. 12, 2013 at the Whitaker Ward LDS Chapel at 4890 Whitaker Rd. A viewing will be held from 5 to 7 p.m. on Wed. Sept. 11, 2013 at Wilks Funeral Home 211 W. Chubbuck Rd. and one hour prior to services at the church. Condolences may be sent to the family online at www.wilksfuneralhome.com. [phone]

http://www.legacy.com/obituaries/idahostatejournal/obituary.aspx?n=ella-marie-tucker&pid=166885847&fhid=8077

http://trib.com/news/local/crime-and-courts/officials-identify-girl-fatally-shot-at-yellowstone/article_7e90c046-3bdf-5e59-9a8e-1060da6af5f2.html?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

Family may be from Chubbuck, Idaho.

No further details at this time.