This message was self-deleted by its author

[last1standing]

This message was self-deleted by its author (last1standing) on Tue Sep 10, 2013, 03:20 AM. When the original post in a discussion thread is self-deleted, the entire discussion thread is automatically locked so new replies cannot be posted.

[ProSense]

1. "If Kerry is making proposals without the consent of the White House, he has gone rogue"

[last1standing]

6. Par for the course for you.

You can't argue the point so you try to divert attention from it.

Shame that the propaganda doesn't seem to be working anymore, huh?

[karynnj]

40. It is pretty laughable, but so is the op

Kerry has been very successful as Secretary of State - notably by getting the Israeli/Palestinian talks restarted.

Here, if this develops as promised - Obama has just avoided a grueling political battle and avoided a US attack. He also puts the US and Russia in better position to push Geneva 2 to get a political solution in Syria. Not bad for going rogue.

[last1standing]

52. Has it occurred to you that the OP was meant to be kind of laughable?

We all know Kerry isn't going to resign, but the title and the message hopefully get the point across that the White House is bound by Kerry's words. Obama appointed Kerry's to negotiate international situations and must abide by his agreements or denounce both the agreements and Kerry. This "rhetorical" comment claim is laughable on its face.

We should all hope that Obama stands by Kerry's very reasonable offer.

[Aerows]

41. She'll be the first to slam Kerry

the second Obama says something different. She'd roast kittens on the White House lawn if President Obama even suggested it. Besotted.

[ProSense]

60. LOL!

Desperation.

[Aerows]

35. If John Kerry

was seen on the White House lawn barbecuing a puppy, you would think it was the greatest idea since sliced bread. As long as Obama supported it.

You would be ready to roast John Kerry the second Obama said "No", and would be the first to take a plate of the barbecue.

[karynnj]

45. I am 100% against roasting either puppies or John Kerry

Both John Kerry and Obama are well known to have pet dogs who they treat very well.

[Aerows]

48. Thanks for stepping up to the plate

and actually having a position! And I agree with you, too, and you won't find my ideas changing tomorrow or the day after.

Policy, not personality.

[karynnj]

56. You are welcome

My ideas don't change day to day either. (In fact, I've posted many times that I wished Russia could help in pushing Assad to give up the weapons and avoiding all this misagash.)

[FSogol]

2. Kerry only needs to resign when the President asks for his resignation.

All the self-righteous puffery aside, bashers gotta bash, I guess.

[geek tragedy]

3. I'm sure he'll act on your demand. nt

[last1standing]

8. Not a demand, a statement.

If you weren't caught up in protecting a man who disdains your support, you'd realize the difference.

[RobertEarl]

4. War Twerking?

Kerry is caught up in that old maxim of: Absolute power corrupts absolutely.

I am embarrassed for him and us. Yes, he must step down.

[KittyWampus]

77. I am embarrassed for the ignorance of so many DU'ers on display. Willingly.

[tridim]

5. You forgot the !!!!!!'s and the 111111's.

DERP

[last1standing]

12. The usual from you: no information, only worn out snark.

Maybe you should see if there's someone a little more clever to take your place over in the BOG. At least they might have a new meme that would be funny, if not informative.

[tridim]

32. I'm not a member of the BOG.

How did you not know that?????!!!!!1111

[FSogol]

15. Oh NOES111!1 IM CERES!11

[HappyMe]

28. THIS IS HUGH!!11!

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

7. And, forget any aspirations he may have to go into advertising.

[DonViejo]

9. Do you have Kerry's full statement?

It's posted on DU, I read it earlier. If I remember correctly, Kerry is quoted as stating "if the Syrians give up the chemicals within a week we will not bomb them but, they won't do that." If I understood the OP correctly, Kerry's "but they won't do that" is what is being ID'd as rhetorical. If that's true, then no, Kerry shouldn't resign.

On edit:

Found the OP and what the "rhetoric" was about:

LONDON, Sept 9 (Reuters) - U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry was making a rhetorical comment when he said on Monday that Syria's President Bashar al-Assad would not hand over his country's chemical weapons.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1014590131

[shraby]

10. Where did you get the idea that Kerry is making proposals without the White House ok?

He's a seasoned pro. He wouldn't do such a thing. You can bet your silly ass he has the ok.

[last1standing]

14. Then Obama should resign.

If our president can't be trusted to honor his agreements then he should not be in office.

Is that better?

[maddezmom]

18. This is a fluid situation......

http://www.politico.com/story/2013/09/syria-us-russia-chemical-weapons-96472.html?hp=t1_3

[last1standing]

59. Yes it is. Let's hope the White House honors the offer.

n/t

[maddezmom]

61. Agreed. But disagree there was an agreement that was dishonored.

[phleshdef]

37. I think you should resign.

...from having an opinion. If you can't be patient for more than a day to see how the new developments with Russia pan out and give a fluid situation time to make sense, then your knee jerk opinion isn't of much value.

[last1standing]

57. Aww... It's so cute when an authoritarian tries to shut down discussions.

It's almost like they think they have control over the intertubes.

Precious.

[phleshdef]

63. You just embarass yourself when you blindly throw around the word authoritarian...

...with no basis in context to anything I said and no knowledge on my views of limits to authority.

I'm not trying to shut down any discussions. I'm just mocking you because your wild eyed notions that Kerry or the President should resign over anything that's happened thus far are ludicrous. Your OP isn't worthy of serious discussion because no level headed person would take it seriously.

[karynnj]

50. What agreement is Obama not honoring???

He said he wants action to limit the potential use of chemical weapons - if Syria gives them up, that is the most clear cut way to accomplish what he said he would do.

[last1standing]

54. That is exactly what Obama should honor.

We're not disagreeing here. Seriously.

[shraby]

51. What agreements hasn't he honored?

[polichick]

11. Politicians are expected to talk our of their asses.

[Pretzel_Warrior]

13. I strongly disagree. Thankfully your opinion has the weight of a fart in the wind

John Kerry is terrific and will continue to be terrific as SOS. That would be nice all on it's own. But knowing it will anger the haters makes me even happier.

[last1standing]

19. You're really flaming out today.

We've has some decent debates in the past but I see you've decided that you would rather post shit than substance.

Too bad.

[Pretzel_Warrior]

21. yeah. I admit I am phoning it in. :D Perhaps I will regroup.

[last1standing]

30. I think that's a good idea.

We can argue forcefully but we shouldn't resort to simple name-calling and attempts to dehumanize. Look over this thread to see what I mean.

The only good contrary post was the one that linked to a politico article stating that the White House is looking into whether to honor their agreement. That's a fantastic way to disagree with the OP and one I support wholeheartedly.

[Pretzel_Warrior]

33. yes, I'm not proud of it!! but hopefully one can understand the severe angst

when I hear conservative assholes constantly carping about our Democratic leaders and then I come on here and see "KERRY MUST RESIGN", "OBAMA IS A THUG" blah blah blah. It gets old.

[last1standing]

64. This was merely a logical exercise to make a point.

Either the White House has to honor the offer or denounce the person who offered it. Since they called Kerry's comments "rhetorical," they should ask for his resignation.

Fortunately, it looks like they're backing down and looking at the possibility of placing Syria's chemical weapons under international control. That's the best possible solution and I hope they take it whether it was a gaffe or not.

[cali]

29. I disagree with the op's premise but JK has

been less than impressive in his role advocating for military intervention and trying to gain military allies.

oh, and your opinion on JK as well as mine and the op's has the "weight of a fart in the wind", but the opinions of those writing and commenting about him, are not without some heft; he's getting terrible reviews across the board.

[cui bono]

84. "But knowing it will anger the haters makes me even happier."

Why would making someone angry make you happy? Is that what you think this board is supposed to be about?

[maddezmom]

16. Well it looks like State and WH are going to take a look at the Russian proposal

http://www.politico.com/story/2013/09/syria-us-russia-chemical-weapons-96472.html?hp=t1_3

[last1standing]

23. Fantastic!

That's what this thread was all about. Either honor your agreements or resign.

[warrior1]

17. unrec

[last1standing]

20. That was helpful, wasn't it?

Lol!

[Bobbie Jo]

22. LOL

That is all....

[last1standing]

24. LOL! Not only "That is all..." that's all you've got.

n/t

[Bobbie Jo]

27. That's all "this" deserves.

[Schema Thing]

25. good god man. get a grip. it's been literally a couple of hours.

The Syrians haven't done jack-shit yet.

[last1standing]

34. No but the White House has.

And if politico is correct, they're making the right moves now but I'm going to leave this up as a true statement.

Either honor the agreement or Kerry must resign for proposing it.

[Schema Thing]

42. go away with your silliness.

[last1standing]

44. Yes, m'lord.

Lol!

Who made you kind of the fucking DU castle?

[pnwmom]

26. This is just plain silly.

He could very well have been offering up a trial balloon, and offering the Syrians a chance to prove him wrong.

It's called reverse psychology and it's often effective.

[last1standing]

47. You make leap of faith arguments but my post is "silly."

Physician, heal thyself!

[karynnj]

31. Kerry may have been a catalyst in resolving this - with removal of chemical weapons -

instead of a war.

It maybe that Obama will be able to score a huge victory out of this - avoid and a huge damaging political fight that he could lose. If that is the case, he will thank heaven that Kerry said just what he did.

Assume that Obama does not take the offer and is angry that it came about - then Kerry SHOULD resign because it means that Obama was not honest that the goal was to make the use of chemical weapons less likely - and this does that very precisely. Kerry has clearly been motivated by the fact that the use of chemical weapons needs to be responded to.

However, I think case 1 more likely -- or Russia and or Syria backtrack.

You ignore that Kerry has been able to achieve some pretty impressive things before Syria erupted - most notably getting the Israel/Palestine talks restarted.

[last1standing]

39. I really don't. This post was about honoring agreements.

The White House claimed that Kerry's comments were rhetorical and that doesn't fly. Either they need to honor the agreement or throw Kerry under the bus.

I'm glad to hear that they're looking into honoring it.

[DonViejo]

53. Go read what the State Department said, not what your knee jerk (and misinformed)

supposition leads you to believe was said.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1014590131

[Whisp]

36. I'm glad you aren't in charge of anything more than your keyboard. What rubbish. n/t

[last1standing]

43. Back at ya.

neiner, neiner.

[cthulu2016]

38. Please delete OP. It is factually wrong.

[last1standing]

46. What is not factual?

Did Kerry make an offer?

Did Syria welcome the offer?

Did the White House call Kerry's remarks "rhetorical?"

If I am wrong about any of that, I will delete.

[snooper2]

49. No Way he'll be the Last 1 Standing!

[VanillaRhapsody]

55. In light of today's developments

come again?

[last1standing]

66. If you read through the comments you'll see that I'm very happy with the latest developments.

And if the White House honors Kerry's offer I believe they have the right to claim victory.

If they don't then there's no choice but to ask for Kerry's resignation.

[VanillaRhapsody]

72. Oh no there isn't....

that is just nutty. He is observing his role quite well....in fact even you played along..unwittingly of course...

[last1standing]

74. Ah yes, the 12 dimensional chess argument.

Boy! That Obama is so clever! He spent a week looking like a stumbling drunk for exactly this result! LOL!

You know what, though? I'm very happy to play along with that if we can get those stockpiles under control without killing people or assisting Al Qaeda. In fact, I'll try to be the first supporting poster in your victory thread if it happens.

[VanillaRhapsody]

75. I told everyone here from the start...do NOT underestimate President Obama...

not Chess...Poker...perhaps you know that game. I hear they have poker games at the WH and Obama is very good at it.

[HereSince1628]

58. BengHAZI! BeNGHAZI! BENGHAZI! Err... DamasCUS! DumbASSCUS! DUMASSKISS!

N

[last1standing]

68. Yes. That's exactly it.

My god, you have no idea of what you're talking about, do you?

[HereSince1628]

80. Oh, and Kerry must resign over this isn't the dumbest thing since the BENGAHAZI hyperbole?

That's a very tall and wide pile of stinky dumbness.

[HooptieWagon]

62. No, I don't think so.

Obviously it was a mixup in communications...Kerry didn't get word from Obama the military strike really wasn't about CWs.
For the rest of us, Kerry's lies were a good wakeup call to the WH's real agenda.

[karynnj]

67. Because you have closer ties to Obama than the Secretary?

[fadedrose]

65. Who is competent?

Gotcha!!

[Marrah_G]

69. If they continue with the bombing

even after the stockpiles are put under international control, then I would be all in favor of him stepping down.

[HooptieWagon]

73. If they bomb Syria after CWs under intl control...

...then the whole goddam administration needs to resign.

[David__77]

70. I agree that he should resign.

Absolutely.

[Lifelong Dem]

71. I don't see it

State Department spokeswoman Jen Psaki said Kerry was "making a rhetorical argument about the impossibility and unlikelihood of Assad turning over chemical weapons he has denied he used."

"His point was that this brutal dictator with a history of playing fast and loose with the facts cannot be trusted to turn over chemical weapons otherwise he would have done so long ago," Psaki said of Kerry.

http://www.cnn.com/2013/09/09/world/meast/syria-civil-war/index.html

Deputy national security adviser Tony Blinken: We would welcome Syria's Assad giving up chemical weapons in a verifiable manner

http://www.breakingnews.com/item/ahZzfmJyZWFraW5nbmV3cy13d3ctaHJkcg0LEgRTZWVkGOGm8xMM/2013/09/09/deputy-national-security-adviser-tony-blinken-we

[KittyWampus]

76. He is the one who has been negotiating. Just because you are ignorant of what he's been doing,

he should resign?

[BlueCheese]

78. Sounds like Kerry made an offhand statement.

He figured it was such a high bar that it wouldn't be taken seriously. Russia and Syria seized on it. My guess is that they have no intention of following through, but realize that doing so would buy a lot of time and throw another wrench into the works.

[KurtNYC]

79. In reading Kerry's statement in context he was not making a specific offer BUT

the idea should be explored more fully and perhaps made into a specific offer.

Kerry: “Sure, [Assad] could turn over every single bit of his chemical weapons to the international community in the next week — turn it over, all of it without delay and allow the full and total accounting (of it), but he isn't about to do it and it can't be done.”
...
Later, Obama spokesman Jay Carney was asked if the development of the idea had been planned. "I will only say," he replied, "there are on-going conservations about this at the highest level." He refused to say if strikes would move forward as the country considered Syria's response to the idea.

Update, 2:30 p.m.: In Hillary Clinton's remarks on Monday, she echoed the same sentiment. If this was a gaffe by Kerry, it was a very popular one.

http://www.theatlanticwire.com/politics/2013/09/kerry-offers-rhetorical-out-assad-which-russia-all-too-happy-embrace/69194/

Your request for Kerry's resignation seems premature.

[Historic NY]

82. +1....

diplomatic gambits.

[gopiscrap]

81. Sadly I agree

and I have always liked Kerry

[JI7]

83. Are people upset Kerry's Comments, whether Gaffe or not have resulted in possible talks

for solutions other than military strikes ?

[last1standing]

85. Nope. I was pleased as Punch when I read about his offer this morning.

Then I read that the White House called his remarks "rhetorical" so I wrote this OP. Afterward, the White House claimed it was looking into honoring the presented offer which also pleases me.

If the White House honors Kerry's offer then I will delete my OP. If they do not, then they are basically claiming that our Secretary of State's words have no meaning and so he should resign.

[ProSense]

86. It appears so, and Kerry's comments also led to this:

"the first acknowledgment by the Syrian government that it even possesses chemical weapons"
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023630685

[Just Saying]

87. No, he mustn't.

U.S. officials in Washington initially said they were surprised by Kerry's comments, which came at a news conference with British Foreign Secretary William Hague and in response to a question about what, if anything, Assad could do to stop the U.S. from punishing it for the use of chemical weapons.

"Sure," Kerry replied. "He could turn over every single bit of his chemical weapons to the international community in the next week. Turn it over, all of it, without delay, and allow a full and total accounting for that. But he isn't about to do it, and it can't be done, obviously."

http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/2013/sep/09/us-weighs-talk-syria-dumping-chemical-weapons/

What he said was rhetorical. As many have already pointed out to you, your OP is inaccurate. More context at the link. And contrary to your OP, it looks like these comments opened a door to diplomacy that most people didn't consider possible at this point.

[Historic NY]

88. Looks like he might get a raise......

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023633259