Maybe, just maybe, Obama is smarter than some of you

[Yavin4]

Last edited Tue Sep 10, 2013, 02:20 PM - Edit history (1)

I know it's hard for you to comprehend, but maybe he's better at this than you are at whatever you do for a living, and you just cannot deal with it.

Maybe some of you cannot deal with an African American man being good at his job.

Maybe.

--On edit--

I'm not apologizing for what I posted. I said clearly, "Maybe some of you cannot deal with an African American man being good at his job."

If you're not in that group, then my post wasn't directed at you. I never said that all criticism of Obama is racist which is what some of you have interpreted it to mean.

[polichick]

1. Maybe, just maybe, some of you hero-worship the man like jr. high kids.

[treestar]

8. So it is hero worship to recognize someone else might be smarter than you are?

I've hero worshipped a lot of people then.

If you believe you are the smartest person on the planet, then it must be frustrating that others fail to recognize it. If only Obama knew and could consult you first!

[polichick]

10. Of course not, but all this 3D chess stuff and "I got this" posters are juvenile.

[tridim]

52. The "3D chess stuff" and "I got this" is proven correct over and over and over again.

It is reality polichick.

Someday after Obama is long gone you might realize your error.

[polichick]

71. Yeah, it was 3D chess when he wouldn't consider single payer and 3D chess...

when he invited Rick Warren to do the prayer, and 3D chess when sent more troops to Afghanistan, etc., etc., etc.

Sometimes he's just a smart guy who's too close to Billy Tauzin and big pharma, or who foolishly wants to win over Evangelicals even though it hurts the lgbt communty that worked for him, or who can't say no to the generals even when Biden is telling him to.

Someday maybe you'll just let him be human.

[tridim]

80. He tried to get single payer and Congress said no.

Listen, I get it that you and the rest of Neo-DU don't understand political chess. Most people I know don't even know the rules of chess, let alone how it works in politics.

Someday you will realize he is human, and he is one of the best humans currently living on Earth. That is why we gave him the power to lead our country for eight years.

[polichick]

82. Sorry, single payer was off the table from the get-go...

You can study the WH logs of lobbyist visits to figure out why.

Wake up.

He's a lovely human being. Not a liberal. Too corporate. But lovely.

[DallasNE]

157. Obama Needed All 60 Democrats In The Senate To Break The Filibuster

One of those was Sen. Ben "Mutual of Omaha" Nelson, who was the Nebraska insurance commissioner prior to running for pubic office. Mutual of Omaha runs software owned by Blue Cross-Blue Shield of Arkansas and the votes of Sens. Lincoln and Pryor. The Affordable Care Act was the key vote the caused the Democratic blood bath in 2010 as seniors, who already have Medicare, voted in mass to throw the Democrats out of Congress as the bill was sold as cutting Medicare and throwing grandma under the bus -- both obvious lies. Nelson and Lincoln dropped out rather than face certain defeat and Pryor will almost certainly lose in 2014. Got the picture? Right now we are just trying to hold on to what we have -- it's not perfect by a long shot but it was as much as was doable.

[AgingAmerican]

279. To break the filibuster that never happened

Because it was never on the table. The Democratic bloodbath in 2010 happened because the youth vote and independents, who came out en masse for Obama in 2008, never materialized because they were disillusioned and did not vote.

[Octafish]

158. WE had both Houses of Congress, plus the Nurses...

...and then Rahm Emanuel's doctor brother got put in charge and the health insurance discusson all of a sudden changed in favor of the insurance corporations.

[polichick]

167. Yep, the WH traded single payer away early on...

This all came out long ago but some around here don't want to believe it.

[treestar]

177. No study the Congress, even that one

would not have passed single payer.

There's no point in asking for castles in the sky. Try for something you can get.

[polichick]

178. The people were for it - and also most Dems...

Remember how liberal groups were targeting Blue Dog Dems in ads - and Rahm trashed them and told them to stop the ads?

It wasn't "asking for castles" - but the deal with big pharma had already been cut.

I think it's silly to think, "Obama is so smart he must have known better than us."

[treestar]

222. Then people need to friggin' vote for representatives who will vote for it

And pay attention to who they elect to Congress. We have that power, rather than sitting around playing the victim.

[polichick]

225. Who was "sitting around playing the victim"??? We were airing ads...

against Dems who weren't representing the people.

Your reading comprehension could use a little work.

[cui bono]

208. Well that's not very smart negotiating. You ask for more than what you want and settle for what you

want. Or close to it. That's what the Cons did. But Obama gave them what they wanted from the start. He does not know how to negotiate, or does not care to do it well.

[EOTE]

229. It's the latter.

No one can deny Obama's intelligence. He knows how to negotiate very well, he's proven that when he actually wants to accomplish something. But in spite of his campaign rhetoric, he never wanted a public option. That's why he threw it away from the get go.

[EOTE]

227. He took it off the table before the debate even took place.

Even if there was no chance it would pass, it was extremely stupid to take it off the table before the debate began. First of all, we're not talking about single payer here, we're talking about the public option, which is pretty popular and would have had a a chance to become more popular through the debate. Second of all, by taking it off the table from the beginning, that removes ANY chance of it being used as leverage. He folded before even coming to the table and we're paying for it dearly now. I wish I could say it was a mistake, but it wasn't. The public option was removed because this administration never had any intention of pushing for it.

[Segami]

250. Not Liberal!

[Sheepshank]

252. y-e-a-h...nothing but bitter anger.

Not content to keep to the subject at hand, bringing in strawmen trying to continue the manufactured outrage....the MO is getting predictable and old.

[polichick]

259. Do your homework.

[Sheepshank]

264. perhpas taking off this filter you have and doing your own would be wiser

[polichick]

265. My "filter" is policy - that's what I'm interested in, not personalities.

[Sheepshank]

268. now you are not being completely honest here

down thread you say something in complete violation of your attempt at this noble and objective thought.

seriously, you are all over the place on this one, and further discussion doesn't seem to make much sense.

[polichick]

269. Where? Anyone I've worked with in this party knows it's all...

about policy for me - and has been from the start. Always will be.

Further discussion doesn't make sense because you're talking out of your ass.

[Sheepshank]

271. I suppose you know what talking out of one's ass is all about

since you are already so full of shit


I certainly like bringing discussion down to the level of name calling and personal insults, sometimes...don't you?

[polichick]

272. You make accusations you can't back up...

and then get upset when I point it out. Oh boo-hoo.

[Sheepshank]

275. Another poor attempt to justify lobbing insults by reducing your meme to childish comebacks

is that it? Boo Hoo? another insult at someone who can certainly take and toss back your insults? You think you are making me cry? You are getting desperate to elevate your ability to cause emotional reaction. There is a verifiable personality disorder that describes that.

[polichick]

276. You're still not backing up your accusations - just babbling on as distracton.

[Sheepshank]

286. You are asking me to back up your constant need to personally insult...that backing up?

I'm not sure why you can't participate in civil discourse, but here, just on this thread and in order of appearance:

your post #1, #71, #82, #225, #259, #269, #272, #276, #126,

Or the part where your "objective political perspective" changes and your suggest personalities do play a part in analyzing a politician #176, #75

I suppose I could go on, but I've proven to myself that your posts are just not worth anymore of my time. Thanks for playing.

[polichick]

287. LOL - what you've proven is that you can't back up your claims...

It was about my being about POLICY - not about civil discourse. I couldn't care less if I'm civil to posters who make accusations they can't back up.

[cui bono]

205. He did not try for single payer, he never even fought for the public option.

He did however, hold secret meetings with health insurance companies/big pharma which he denied until he had to admit it.

Perhaps it is you who needs to realize he is human. You can start by sticking to reality and not some fantasy history you have of what he did and did not do.

[Sheepshank]

254. If Obama didn't want single payer and was never willing to fight for it,

and he is acknowledged to be a darned good campaigner and negotiator....why would he try and sell single payer to the public and then change his stand, taking the chance to irreversably damaging his brand (in the first term none the less!)? Why bring up single payer in the first place? These memes are just not making any sense whatsoever.

[cui bono]

273. Who acknowledges that he's a good negotiator?

He's a terrible negotiator! He gives the Cons what they want before the negotiations begin.

He's a great campaigner, I'll give you that.

[Doctor_J]

221. I'm sorry, that is a lie

please stop repeating it. The real Dems in Congress were pissed because he took it off the table before the "negotiation" began - the one that ended up with Big Insurance getting a permanent 30% of all of the health care in the country, while still leaving millions without. And the FanClub considers this a big "win" for Dems.

[Abq_Sarah]

224. It's become blindingly obvious to me over the last few decades

That the "best" human beings don't go into politics. They never have. Instead, we have to choose between a bunch of people who don't really care about us and are in it for themselves. It's our job to choose the best candidate out of a substandard group and hold them accountable to us. If you start believing the average politician is smarter than the average American, it's way too easy to start treating them as if they are better than us... and believe me, they are NOT.

[EOTE]

226. Bullshit. He took it off the table before the debate even began.

It was a complete and total gift to big pharma. You wonder where all the accusations of hero worship come from and then you prove that you're unable to look at the administration even remotely objectively. Hero worship is giving the man every benefit of the doubt when he's proven he's not deserving of that years ago. When the hero worshipers have utterly no idea how the ACA came to be, it's no wonder why they're being called hero worshipers. The ACA? The financial bailout? 3D chess? Not unless 3D chess means handing over all your pieces before the game begins.

[uponit7771]

96. So you're claim is he didn't want single payer?! This is where these stupid positions loose all...

...credibilty!!

Even the implication is stupid on its face

[polichick]

107. If he wanted it, he would've allowed single-payer advocates...

in the room even a tenth as often as he invited health business lobbyists into the room.

Where is your proof that he wanted it? Your claim has no credibility, since Obama never fought for single payer in the least.

[uponit7771]

110. BULL FUCKIN SHIT!!! "allowed" my ass, this is the winger "Obama is dictator" position so he can do..

...what he wants and therefore all blame for everything goes to him crap.

"allowed"

As if the congress would've wasn't 11 seconds on voting for single payer.

Yes, congress... you know...the one all wingers want to act like doesn't exist?!!??!

Bull shit

And here's my proof of Obama wanting single payer

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2009/jul/16/barack-obama/obama-statements-single-payer-have-changed-bit/

regards

[polichick]

126. You're sounding a bit unhinged.

[uponit7771]

132. Nah, just not accpeting BS this afternoon...

[Bobbie Jo]

137. No shit.

Enough is enough.

Right there with ya.

[veganlush]

156. you lose.

[whathehell]

282. Uh, no...Only according to you, it seems. n/t

[cui bono]

210. Yeah, a bit. n/t

[NealK]

134. Huh?

Your word salad doesn't make much sense.

[uponit7771]

135. Winger meme = Obama controls everything even congress so it doesn't matter what they do or think

...it's Obama's fault

Is a winger meme

regards

[Marr]

143. Unless you're talking about geopolitical squabbles that work out well, apparently.

Then Obama is in control of everything. Even Vladimir Putin's mouth.

[cui bono]

207. Touche. n/t

[cui bono]

206. What an immature response.

[cui bono]

209. If you've watched Rachel Maddow you would know that Politifact has pretty much no credibilty.

Fact of the matter is PBO never even tried for single-payer and never fought for the public option.

You can't blame that on congress.

[uponit7771]

217. So if congress was to vote a non binding res for single payer in both house and senate

...you're saying Obama would've left it on the table still!?!?!!?

REALLY?!

NO, he would've implemented it in a second

The winger "Obama is a corporatist like Bush" meme is silly on it's face too

[cui bono]

219. You're not dealing with the reality of what happened, you're just making up a false scenario.

The reality is Obama never tried for or asked for single-payer. He had back door deals with big pharma/insurance companies and barely listened to a peep, if at all, from single payer advocates.

The question wasn't if congress offered it to him would he allow it.

Whether or not Obama is a corporatist... well let's see what he's done. He put Wall Street right smack dab in the middle of the WH with his appointments. Bailed out the bankster while allowing people to get kicked out of their homes due to what they banksters had done. Has an unprecedented amount of whistleblower prosecutions. Put a Monsanto guy in the EPA. Even regarding ACA, he had back door deals with big pharma/insurance companies and barely listened to a peep, if at all, from single payer advocates. You do the math.

And your little "winger" comments are childish and immature btw. Not to mention completely incorrect.

[whathehell]

236. Since you're concerned about stupidity..

you might try learning how to spell Lose.

Lose is the Verb you are looking for in you subject line.

"Loose" is an adjective that frequently describes clothing.

[Sheepshank]

255. that was really petty or is it petti, or pety, or peti

either way, the you get the message...right, or is it rite, or write?

[whathehell]

262. Sorry, I don't agree...I'm seeing way too much of it from all quarters.

and I may 'get the message", but a lot of people won't -- They'll just dismiss the person

as semi- literate, and that's clearly not to their advantage.

I'm not the only one on DU to point it out, btw. If the words were multi-syllabic and/or uncommon,

it could be ignored, but these are small, common words that can be SOUNDED out, for God's sake.

[Sheepshank]

267. Yeah, we've all heard that line a lot.....

"They'll just dismiss the person

as semi- literate, and that's clearly not to their advantage"

.....that leaky bucket isn't holding water. Permitting every individual with an idea or opinion some leeway and credence without invoking the academia-elitist concept that "you only have a vaild idea if you can execute literary finesse and accuracy" is just plain nasty and petty.

[whathehell]

280. Yeah, but It seems you haven't heard it enough, especially if

you imagine that knowing how to spell "lose" demonstrates "literary finesse and accuracy".

[Tarheel_Dem]

160. I think history will prove that it was indeed 3D chess. How many administrations have tried and....

failed to get universal health care? This was a step in that direction, and still the haters refuse to acknowledge even that. This cost a great deal of political capitol, and the loss of the House, when weak minded liberals argued that it didn't go far enough. In about 10 years, the next Democratic administration can push the envelope even further.

I swear, some of you are like spoiled children, who hold your breath and throw temper tantrums because you can't have ice cream for breakfast. And as for the LGBT community, what does it matter who he "wins over" if the results are increased rights & priveleges for the community? Get over the optics, and read PBO's actual record on LGBT rights, and compare those to his predecessors.

[polichick]

162. When you use terms like "haters" and "spoiled children" you give yourself away.

[Tarheel_Dem]

163. And being compared to a "hero-worshipping junior high kid" doesn't "give you away"?

[polichick]

164. "Maybe, just maybe, some of you hero-worship the man like jr. high kids."

That's what I posted in response to the OP. I stand by it.

[Tarheel_Dem]

165. As do I. So much for that mirror you tried to place in my hand.

[polichick]

168. Where's the "hating" behavior you refer to?...

And what's "spoiled" about wanting a sane healthcare system?

[Tarheel_Dem]

169. You do know that some EU countries are moving to a market based healthcare system, don't you?

And if they don't, they'll have to raise taxes to previously unforeseen levels. Google "EU health system financing". I think even you will be surprised.

[polichick]

170. That's why it's "spoiled" to want single payer? Try again.

[mythology]

223. Because obviously it's only those who disagree with you who are biased?

You can either use insults or get annoyed by people using them, but you can't really do both and not expect to get called on it.

[polichick]

237. Unlike those who think Obama is smarter than the whole world and always has...

some master plan that's brilliant, I look at each policy on its own - and also at the politics involved.

When I agree, I agree. When I don't, I don't. Doesn't matter what president or personality is involved. I certainly am "biased" toward liberal policies that help people and protect the planet.

In the case of the public option, the WH traded it away without telling the people who had worked their butts off to get him elected. No brilliant chess move. Just politics that sucked and went against what the people wanted.

[treestar]

175. He's only smart if he agrees lock step with you what to do

That's how it's coming off.

Of course he is human. Sounds like you don't allow him any "mistake" (differing with you).

[polichick]

176. Where do you get that? I agree with him when I agree with him...

don't agree when I don't agree - but I think he's a smart man and also a nice person. I've met him and like him.

[whathehell]

240. He can only be "wrong" or "mistaken" if he is NOT smart?

How absolutely absurd.

[Octafish]

151. Like when all the Banksters went to jail?

I don't remember that.

Or when all the war criminals from the Bush administration went to jail?

Don't remember that, either.

[blm]

53. I kinda agree there, but, see that they do it just in good fun,

not so much as hero worship. A way of letting off steam after the bitterness of the CONSTANT battles with the GOP.

[polichick]

75. Some do it in good fun; some seem dead serious about it...

imo he's a smart guy who's human and doesn't always "got it."

[blm]

83. Geez - I hope they aren't dead serious about it. That would

be kinda creepy. I do respect the well-researched defenses of political figures and the issues. The accolades with no basis in reality can be annoying.

[earthside]

201. Juvenile and a bit deluded.

It looks like this whole Syria thing is a mess and Pres. Obama is stuck in it.

We will see how much of a 3D chess master he is if he can get this dust-up behind him (and us) as quickly now as possible.

But really, there were folks today ready to make Barack Obama an honorary Albert Einstein ... after nearly five years I think we all know that he is not the great 'savior' of the nation and that though he is a good politician, he is not FDR either.

Syria is starting to make the upcoming budget battle look appealing -- this is a mess.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

93. Yes, and I do think there's some psychological racism going on. It's not on a conscious level,

but it's kinda like, black people can't be that intelligent...we have the better answers; we know what's better for this country.

Black Tax in full effect!!

[polichick]

108. LOL - if Obama voters don't think he's Superman, they're racists?!

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

111. I knew this bullshit was coming. I didn't call anyone a racist. Please learn how to read...

I wrote that there is *psychological racism*; it is on an unconscious level wherein there is a level of discomfort with a man of color in charge. I do believe that there are a good number of white people--on ALL sides of the ideological spectrum--who are uncomfortable with a BRILLIANT black man in charge. Neither this man nor his family reflect the stereotypes or the narrative that we've all been exposed to about black Americans in this country. And because of that, I think there is some unease. I believe that with every fiber of my being and nothing will change that for me.

[polichick]

120. So we're racists (but don't know it) because we don't think he's Superman...

LOL

Edited for clarity

[RC]

136. Yep, just more of their binary thinking.

If you don't praise Obama, you therefore must hate him. There is no middle ground. Once is enough on the failure to praise, to make you a hater.

And while I am on the subject, why come they can get away with calling us realist, "haters", but if we call them 'worshipers', or 'lovers', the post get alerted on? Apparently the tolerance only goes one way.

[whathehell]

233. When will we realize that "being smart", even exceptionally so, isn't Everything?

I'm sorry for you if you hero worship everyone you think is "smarter" than you,

because, as you might imagine, there have been lots of "smart" villains in the world who

really are NOT worth worshiping.

As mentioned in another post, there are these other Qualities called "Character", "Experience"

and even Aptitude that count for a LOT, in fact the latest research finds that Intelligence

accounts for only about 25 percent of a person's success in life.

[Sheepshank]

253. acknowledging this "Fact" doesn't make anyone a mindless hero worshipper

I know that's exactly what you'd like to imagine to fufill your desire to insult and minimize results from the admin, but your over zealous analysis of this is just plain stupid.

[polichick]

258. What a load. I agree with this administration plenty - when it serves...

the people over corporations and pushes liberal policies.

Too many posters here don't bother to consider policy decisions - it's all about personalities - and that's "plain stupid." It's also the reason the Dem party doesn't serve the people as much as it should.

[whathehell]

284. You are absolutely correct. In the political arena especially, one's loyalties

are best given to principles rather than people.

[polichick]

285. Thank-you!

[whathehell]

288. You're very welcome. n/t

[seabeyond]

2. i wouldnt go that far. but... "maybe, Obama is smarter than some of you"

i can recommend this.

[shenmue]

3. Yeah, it bothers some people

He came up with a good idea! There must be a conspiracy!!!11!11!

[avaistheone1]

15. It was Putin's idea.

The indications were that President Obama might well not get 60 votes in the Senate for his attack on Damascus, and Reid must have exhaled a big sigh of relief. As for the House of Representatives, the likelihood of it voting to allow Obama to fire cruise missiles at Syrian targets is between slim and none.

To that extent, Putin’s suggestion (and it was his; Lavrov doesn’t have an independent power base and does as the president tells him) functions to save Obama a lot of trouble.

http://www.juancole.com/2013/09/congress-embarrassing-themselves.html

[Orsino]

31. It's not as though repeated American complaints about chemical weapons weren't a hint.

I think the only question was whether Putin would intercede quickly enough. Putin's idea? I dunno. The concept has been out there for years.

Call it a successful negotiation by Russia...but also by us.

[iandhr]

79. It could be good cop bad cop

[uponit7771]

100. Cause Obama was about to hit Syria with some ice cream sandwhiches!? really?!!? Obama had NOTHING

...to do with the this!?

[Bay Boy]

4. He's not as smart as

He's not as smart as I think I am.

[Hoyt]

5. Kind of hard to deny with a straight face in this case (assuming things go as they appear).

Clearly, in this case, he knew a lot more than we did. There's probably more we don't know too.

[VanillaRhapsody]

6. and maybe some of you are not even Americans at all and are cheering for failure of this President

no matter what happens. Posers!

[RC]

138. So you are saying all foreigners are rooting against the United States?

Good to know.
Doesn't any of the information you are subject too, information that can not be cleanly hung on one of the two opposing walls, because it is some shade of medium grey, or even, heaven forbid, in color, instead your preferred black or white, drag on you after a while? Or do you just spray paint it black or white, so you can then deal with it better?

[VanillaRhapsody]

139. did the post say "all"?

I think that means that YOU are the one with "black and white" thinking in light of that...

physician heal thy self.

Pot meet kettle...

[RC]

142. Yeah, your post did and it did imply that if one was a foreigner they were against the United States

Sorry, my world is in color. Obama should never have threatened to bomb Syria, without exhausting diplomacy first, even saying we would go it alone, when the rest of the world and the US citizenry was against it. He had our Navy and Marines in place already.
You need to start dealing with the facts. War and war toys are our best exports. Someone(s) that profits from our wars, is very disappointed that this adventure apparently has fallen though.

[dgibby]

270. A recurrent theme with that one:

If you don't agree with Obama, then you're not really an American. Joe McCarthy lives.

[laundry_queen]

172. You done lost it now. nt

[arrows2flowers]

7. does anyone here believe that?

Good to have an adult in the white house.

[joeybee12]

9. I'm willing to admit that he's smarter than I am...

If you're willing to admit that yes, even smart people fuck up...can you? Can you admit this smart person made a - gasp - mistake?

[whathehell]

244. No, it seems he can't, and if you DARE to suggest that, you are "racist".

Sad.

[Enrique]

11. so are most presidents

it doesn't mean i'm going to stop thinking for myself.

[tblue]

213. Oh Enrique,

[cthulu2016]

12. He's certainly smarter than folks who write OPs like this

[Hydra]

24. My thought too

He's certainly smarter than some of the people here who think they foresaw all of this even as they were banging the drum to save the children.

[City Lights]

27. LOL!

Good one!

[Starry Messenger]

45. *chuckle*

[Iggo]

64. Heheheh.

[Pretzel_Warrior]

90. Oh burn. Your scintillating intellect on display!

[RetroLounge]

97. exactly

RL

[Skittles]

179. Obama would just laugh

[tblue]

214. Oh gosh, Cthulhu2016,

I'm sure he has a higher IQ than me, but I also think he's smarter than the people who never question anything he does.

[whathehell]

239. He probably IS smarter than most -- What's that got to do with anything?

What about those something called "Character"?

How about things like "courage", "values", even simple aptitude?

I'm sure people like Henry Kissinger and other Dubious Players on

the World Scene are very "smart" as well.

[SidDithers]

305. Or OPs like this...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023534346

Sid

[DemocratSinceBirth]

13. Three points

1) I'm certain he's smarter than me. He's the product of America's most elite universities.
2) I don't get the racial component. Even ignoring the fact that race is a social construct, every race has its fair share of geniuses and dullards.
3) None of know how this will end, all the talk of eleven dimensional chess and the president is a warmonger talk, notwithstanding.

[Yavin4]

23. Race is important because a lot of people cannot handle an African American being smarter

than they are.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

26. I think even the biggest bigot would concede there is somebody of a different race smarter than him.

I think what really makes them apoplectic is that he's wielding power.

[bobclark86]

123. How many Klan members you personally know?

Ever have the Aryan Nations move to within a bike ride of your home?

I have. I (unfortunately) know these people who hate people based on skin color and religion when they haven't ever even MET a Jewish person before. No, these people CAN NOT concede that a black/Jewish/Muslim/Catholic/etc. could be smarter than THEM, the high school dropout with the first grade reading level.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

127. I know folks who have gripes with Jewish folks

But they don't usually deny they're really smart... That's usually the source of their animus...

Some people hate other people for immutable characteristics like race, religion, nationality, sexual orientation, et cetera, and the hate is always irrational.

[whathehell]

291. I don't think any group of people -- any race, ethnicity, gender or religion --

has a lock on being "really smart" and that includes Jewish folks.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

292. I don't think any group has a monopoly on intelligence or wisdom

But i don't think anti-semitism is rooted in the belief that Jews aren't smart.

[whathehell]

294. That's good, but I don't think that "the source of the animus"

toward Jews is "usually" the belief that they are "really smart", either.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

295. The reasons are multiple as well as irrational as is most if not all forms of bigotry./nt

[whathehell]

296. I agree with most of that, but think it might have been better if you'd said that the first time,

since braggadocio can be a "source of animus" as well.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

298. braggadocio ???

I have seen anecdotal and objective evidence and there doesn't seem to be much or any that suggests that the belief Jews are unintelligent is the basis for anti-semitism.

[whathehell]

299. Where did I suggest that "the belief that Jews are unintelligent is the basis of anti-semistism"?

Strawman argument.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

300. I'm losing track of this discussion.

I think one of my first comments in this thread is that I found it hard to believe that even the most bigoted person can not entertain the notion that there are members of groups he or she despises that are smarter than him or her. Then the conversation zigged and zagged to a list of groups who bigots believe they are smarter than are.

[whathehell]

301. Okay. n/t

[freshwest]

152. Having worked with Klans members, and for those who don't believe they exist, yes, they do; also,

Last edited Tue Sep 10, 2013, 04:57 PM - Edit history (1)

had the misfortunate experience that I lived among some of them as well, both KKK and Aryan skinheads. And their hate is not based solely on race, but anyone that opposes them for any of the things they do. Plainly speaking, they are thugs looking for any excuse to steal whatever they can get their hands on, from cattle, cars, land, people or government.

I now see them in my blue neighborhood with their new brand, which is Libertarian Republican, or Ron Paul (not all of them, but enough) their posters in their windows with Obama as an African witch doctor and their slick new 2nd Amendment Solution bumpers stickers on the back of the pickup trucks The NRA is out of style so they had to find a new cover grou, but it's SSDD.

The Klan was never just a Southern movement, so no one should feel safe or superior. The same malignant hatred of Obama that is irrational, since 2007 and 2008, has metastasized and is now more deadly.

I've spent my years of denial, thinking this kind of thing was 'buried in the ashbins of history,' but just because the names and memes change, at the base, it's all the same.

Anti-women, anti-gay, anti-minority, anti-union, anti-immigrant; a gun is the best solution for every social problem which revels in the cult of death; and fascist calls to deny voting rights or expressing other ideology, religion or economic ideas; these are the face of the new Klan.

That along with the Koch brothers who created the John Birch Society, the Libertarian and Tea Party political groups, whose ideas are the fodder for Jones, Becks and the rest, all bought and paid for corporatists.

They are shameless to call Obama and Democrats the same as themselves, but it is either through their lens that they see that, or they are just doing what Donald Segretti and Lee Atwater did. For them, any means justifies what they want in the end, their liberty and freedom to tread on the rights of others they have insulted and degraded forever.

Our denial enables the status quo, and those who hate the government also hate the people it helps. Our system of government is suffering from those who think they are too good to get involved, or else fighting to tear it down. They think that they are exempt from the results, but those who don't agree have already seen what the world looks like run by unbridled capitalism and religious zealotry.

[blm]

57. To some degree that's likely, but, then they absolutely eviscerated Kerry, too.

I think the larger portion of the posters attacking both so bitterly were also motivated by other purposes, including a group that saw a political opportunity to do some trolling here.

[HangOnKids]

74. Maybe they think Kerry is just an ass

Why is that so hard for you to accept?

[blm]

84. I accept there are a lot of uninformed people in the media and everywhere.

Accepting the creation of a negative narrative just because it appeals to the ignorant views of low-information audiences isn't particularly admirable.

[HangOnKids]

87. No, sorry they think he is an ass

And they are not uniformed. But keep waving the pom-poms Jen I am sure Kerry loves it.

[blm]

92. That says more about them than it does him.

And, Yes, they are low-information.

[uponit7771]

104. Yes, based off him following Obama...with ODS Kerry gets a pass

[JI7]

195. i think there was some racism in those who made it seem like Kerry was running things

that it was Kerry pushing for whatever . as if the black man was an idiot who could easily be manipulated.

[blm]

196. Yeah, the was basically Robert Reich's angle.

I guess he can't see that Obama and Kerry actually make a damn good team. And I'm pretty sure that Biden was right there on the same page with them.

[spin]

98. That may be true for some people. I have no problem admitting that Obama is far smarter ...

than I am.

But that doesn't guarantee that he is absolutely infallible and can't make poor decisions.

Am I a racist if I dare criticize Obama merely because he is African American? Perhaps I should point out that I have found fault with some of the decisions made by every President who was in office after JFK (all who were white males).

My personal opinion of Obama at this time is that he is a excellent speaker and campaigner with many truly great ideas that I support. Unfortunately he is not as great a leader. With his oratory skill and his charisma he should be able to use his "bully pulpit" to overcome much of the resistance to his policies that he faces from both the Republican and Democratic members of Congress. It's not easy but great leaders overcome obstacles.

I was truly hoping that Obama would go down in history as one of our truly great Presidents. Now I am beginning to fear that he will just be remembered as our first African American President whose greatest success was to implement the start of a new health care system. He basically will be considered just a good President.

[whathehell]

243. Maybe on Free Republic...Not here...I think it may be YOU who has the race problem.

Please get over it.

[uponit7771]

103. 2) Some people HATE... HATE with a PASSION to see their world view not validated..HATE!!!

[whathehell]

241. Yes, including you, it seems.

[ocpagu]

14. And maybe, just maybe, he's not.

What's up with this "idolize Obama" thing?

He's a politician, who happens to be president. So what. Big deal. It doesn't transform him in a sacred entity above good and evil. Some people on DU seem to have traveled from a European absolutist monarchy to the present...

[Avalux]

16. I voted for that man for a reason - not only is he brilliant, he also has a heart.

Sure I don't agree with everything he's done, but I truly feel he cares about people - not just in the US, but all over the world.

[Rainngirl]

118. If we had a "like" button,

I would "like" your comment. I feel the same way.

[NuclearDem]

17. You know, I was almost onboard with this.

Then you played the "you must hate him because he's black" card.

[cali]

18. I wouldn't doubt that

but I think it's rather immaterial in this particular situation.

You can't possibly be suggesting that President Obama wanted the mess he was facing on the Hill or the political damage he's sustained.

Speaking of smarts, you've certainly just demonstrated what you possess in that arena. Not only is the accusation that people here who don't find the President's handling of Syria brilliant , are racists, contemptible, it's dumb.

I don't think that President Obama is a war monger or a tool of the MIC. I'm glad that he has some breathing room here and relieved that he's moved away from a vote on the Hill.

[tkmorris]

19. Did you seriously just accuse DUer's of racism? Really?

This shit went past ridiculous a good while ago. Knock it off.

[Yavin4]

25. Yes. I did.

And as an African American man, I can tell you clearly that just because some folks consider themselves "Progressive" or "Liberal" that does not mean that they cannot be racist.

[freshwest]

129. Definitely. I watched those groups whine about affirmative action as it really got rolling in the

Last edited Tue Sep 10, 2013, 04:45 PM - Edit history (1)

Carter years, extending rights to more people and while I found the diversity liberating, others didn't.

That increase meant more competition for those who said they were more qualified, and smarter, than the women and minorities entering their field of work. There was a period of whining over 'quotas, lowering standards,' and the implication was plain. Then came Reagan and his 'black welfare queen' routine and they became Reagan Democrats.

Reagan smashed unions, and they lost their rights along with others, and they were surprised. I could have said 'I told you so' but I'd been begging them to think beyond their aversion to sharing power in the workplace to the basis of the principles of unions, but they didn't listen. These were people who had benefited from the labor movement and the expansion of jobs and opportunities earned by all people. They were all progressive, liberal and for equality until they ceased to see themselves as part of a larger group of working people they had wanted to keep a leg up on.

It was so easy to divide them with slick corporate ego manipulation. The same folks went along our work being reduced, divided up and part of it given to lower paid minority firms or outsourcing, so long as they felt they were on top of things, doing the smart part of the work, thinking they would be better than blue collar.

I warned that this would lead to us all being unemployed. But they had come to feel that manual labor was for minorities, when before they felt pride and joy in a job well done with their hands. They thought they could still carve out a place on top in the new world they saw Reagan making.

Yes, there is a mentality, of which of the 'monkey' meme by a poster above (thank you, MIRT) shows, and those who dance around it, if they only thought for a minute, have it too but more nuanced. The reason it's hard to believe is that it's hidden in a place of fear of loss of status, being shoved down to a place they didn't want.

If a black POTUS truly can do a far better job than the whites who preceded them, what becomes of their position in society as WASP or whites, who are in reality, a minority in the world?

I find this to be the root of some so disinterested in basic human rights who now are complaining of liberties many millions of Americans never had. I received a retort wben I defended PBO's record on protecting the rights of women and minorities, by a poster who said he would not put up with his fourth amendment rights being violated just because the government doing so was for equal opportunity. I could have replied with:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1014523420#post22

But I've been dealing with the 'I'm a victim, too' mentality for years that crops up from ttime to time, and is endemic with libertarians, baggers, paulites. Countering their sense of 'I'm being oppressed by Obama' results in abuse. I see it as an identity crisis, a feeling of being left behind. It's a bad place to be.

The Tea Party, Libertarian and Paul brand are about creating a new identity, since the old one has been discredited. But it doesn't have to be that way. People can have self-respect not based on feeling superior. In fact, the superior person does not go for ego games.

And yavin, I didn't know you were black, I'm sorry you've had to put up with what's been going on here at DU. I've seen more than on post where you brought up your dissatisfaction, which you expressed well. You don't post much but I like your posts. There are many of all kinds at DU and when I see ignorant posts that do nothing but puff up the one doing the bashing, I ignore them. I agree with your take on this issue, as I have seen it play out before my eyes, for most of my life.

[jaysunb]

145. Excellent ! n/t

[whathehell]

242. Yes, the accusation is made more than you might imagine.

If you fault Obama in ANY way, someone will likely accuse you of "hating" him.

Objectivity isn't the strong suit of some here...I was accused of "hating" him recently,

although I voted for him three times (primary, too) and donated Hundreds of Dollars,

to his campaign, much more than I've ever done for any other candidate.

[GoneFishin]

20. He is clearly highly intelligent. I doubt many hear here question that.

It is in that light that I question his true goals each time he gives away half of the store to the Republicans at the very beginning of every negotiation. Occam's Razor suggests that he does this not because he has to, but because he wants to.

[LittleBlue]

21. Put the race card back in the deck

I seriously doubt Juan Cole is a racist

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=3635240

[cali]

22. I recced this just to unrec it.

saw someone else suggest that reccing and then unreccing is a way to register an unrec.

Just wish there was a "shame on you, your post is contemptible" button to push

[Yavin4]

36. Are you African American?

If you answered, "No", then you have no idea what it's like being an African American in this country. Your progressivsm does not automatically qualify you as non-racist.

[Enrique]

39. b.s.

imho

[LondonReign2]

41. As I said in post 37 below

It would pretty assholish if we said the only reason you supported Obama was because you are an African American, wouldn't it?

Its what you are accusing everyone of who isn't an African American that doesn't support Obama on Syria.

Maybe we don't agree with the fucked up policy he's been pushing.

Maybe.

[cali]

46. ....

You have no idea what it's like being a woman in this country

You have no idea what it's like being a latino in this country

you have no idea what it's like being disabled in this country

Etc. etc. etc

We may not be able to experience racism or sexism or any other specific form of bigotry, but that doesn't mean we can't recognize that it exists and strive to understand it

Of course my progressivism doesn't automatically qualify me as not racist and I never claimed any such thing.

YOUR accusations that DUers are racist because they don't agree with the President on a given issue, without any fucking evidence whatsoever is flat out vile and nothing but a shameful gambit to shut people up.

It's despicable.

SHAME ON YOU

[totodeinhere]

49. +1

[David__77]

60. I think I'll pull the gay card.

I never do it, but it just might be called for! lol...

[lumpy]

212. Being a woman or disabled in this country is hardly comparitive to being a black in this country.

Women as a whole don't have to deal with hatred. Being disabled doesn't mean one is hated for being disabled. Women in this country have it better than any other women in any other country.
Your attempt to try and find some other groups faced with such discrimination is nothing less than disgusting.

[whathehell]

281. "Being a woman or disabled in this country is hardly comparative to being black in this country"

Yeah, sure...Tell it to the women who are beaten EVERY 20 seconds...Duh.

[Puglover]

230. And yet the member that posted

"Latin America is a cyst on the anus of the world." is happily posting away in this thread. And his pals are high fiving him.

Disgusting. This place isn't worth a serious thought while this garbage goes on.

It's a stunning morning in the Northern Andes!

Hiya Cali!

[whathehell]

245. Thank you!

[noiretextatique]

56. i am african american, i think this thread is silly

of course he's smart, but I don't think he's smarter than everyone on the planet. and to suggest that he is smarter than everyone is little more than magical thinking. I find it as offensive as the racists who think they are intellectually superior because they are white.

[cali]

61. Yep, he's very smart. I also think he's

good person. I don't go for the "he's a tool of the MIC" crap, for instance.

But I do think he makes mistakes- just like any other person on the planet and I think his red line rhetoric was a doozy of a mistake.

Anyway, thanks for weighing in. I agree with you about "the magical thinking".

[noiretextatique]

73. thanks, cali

I know you've been critical of Obama...and so have I and that is our job as citizens, a job Obama himself asked us to do. he is a smart, caring human being, just like so many others on this planet.

[whathehell]

246. Thank you, yes, I think he's exceptionally, smart, but even "smart" people make mistakes

Freaking A. I'm a white female feminist, but that doesn't mean I think EVERY woman

in the world is Effing Perfect, or even decent.

[noiretextatique]

260. it is getting really irritating

that's for sure. I can't help but attribute some of this to a wishful thinking. Obama is a human being, no doubt a smart one, however, it is ridiculous to attribute superhuman powers to him, e.g., he smarter than everyone else on the planet.

[whathehell]

290. Yes, it is and I think it diverts us away from sensible discussions. n/t

[RetroLounge]

105. Wow, that's pretty assholish

RL

[Yavin4]

113. Being "assholish" is what DU has become

That's unfortunate, but true.

[RetroLounge]

115. Well, you're out in front of the pack with your racist bullshit

RL

[Yavin4]

122. If you're not racist, then my OP was not directed to you

funny, you're taking such offense.

[RetroLounge]

124. I'm often offended by stupid posts

and sweeping generalities about racism too.

Nothing funny about it.

Please, carry on. We're now laughing at you as well as your post.



RL

[whathehell]

249. Thank you.

Obviously, it's not only white people who can be racist -- even "unconsciously".

[cali]

131. bwahahahaha. curious way to admit what you are.

but at least you know you're a flaming one.

[frylock]

150. fuck that shit..

do you have SPECIFIC instances of racism you'd like to share?

[sibelian]

171. As a gay man, I find your post offensive.

I think.

Actually, I don't at all.

Also, As a gay man, I have no expectation that anyone would know what it was like to be gay except me and other gay people. But that's OK, I can tell them. It can be a little odd sometimes, constantly having to tell everyone every time you move jobs that you have a dick that goes hard around other guys, except not in so many words, as such.

I have no idea what it's like to be straight, really. It must be really nice to grow up knowing that one day you'll maybe meet a nice girl or boy and that maybe you'll have kids and you've grown up with al this stuff it so its all ordinary and you don't really have to think about what bad stuff might happen to you if you tried to do it.

I have no idea what it's like to be an aardvark, either.

"Gasp! You called me an aardvark! You're an aardvarkist!"

[whathehell]

247. Are you Female?...Are you Gay?...Are you Disabled?

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

28. As an ambitious politician he's aces.

"History has tried to teach us that we can't have good government under politicians. Now, to go and stick one at the very head of government couldn't be wise." Mark Twain

[avaistheone1]

29. Obama is smart

but I don't think he is smarter than everyone, or even everyone here.

I think Putin showed he was smarter in the Syrian scenario. Putin has more experience. I am not saying Putin is a good man, but I think he outplayed Obama on this one.

Obama made a big mistake how he handled Syrian situation in pushing highly questionable intel, and beating the war drums without exhausting all diplomatic means. Fortunately Putin saved his neck and possibly the world from further Middle East conflagrations that could have been ignited by our bombing Syria.

[Tveil]

44. and Putin has nice man nipples n/t

[bobduca]

30. Your "thinly veiled" accusation of RACISM

is seen and recognized for what it is by all but the most loyal Bog zombie.

[cthulu2016]

32. I missed the "thinly veiled" part... the OP states it.

[bobduca]

35. yeah i should have air quoted it like you did, that was the intention.

[Yavin4]

38. Nothing thinly about it.

There are a lot of racist folks here on this board.

[bobduca]

40. Yes everyone who opposes Obama is a racist

We all know your bias now, thanks!

[Yavin4]

42. DU has become infested with Paulbots

Paulbots are fucking racist.

[bobduca]

48. Yes everyone who opposes Obama is a racist

The real racists probably should thank you for your use of the term racist in this context.

[frylock]

154. and everyone who opposes war is a paulbot..

I think the real racist is the OP.

[cali]

50. another false accusation from you.

provide some links to this infestation. The vast majority here soundly reject the Pauls.

As for someone agreeing with Rand Paul on something or another, are you suggesting that that automatically makes that person a racist paulbot?

Your extreme loyalty to the President is taking you to a very ugly place.

[NuclearDem]

58. Not everyone who opposes Obama on certain issues is a Paulbot or racist

If Obama was 100% progressive on every policy stance, that might hold some water.

But, in the absence of that, there are plenty of progressives who dislike certain policies of his and don't care about his skin color.

[sibelian]

235. low hanging fruit.

avoid.

[uponit7771]

106. Nah, just those who use racist memes, talking points, perspectives and reflexive hate might be

[LondonReign2]

182. Can you please point out some DUers using racists memes?

[whathehell]

289. Where on DU have you seen "racist memes, talking points, perspectives and 'reflective hate'?

Where are they?

[OnyxCollie]

85. Tell us about the 80 Communists in the House, Allen West.

[frylock]

153. yeh, no shit..

the OP included.

[LondonReign2]

180. Well here's an easy test

If Bush were still President and espousing the same Syria policy, would you be defending him?

If not, if you wouldn't support the same policy from Bush as you are from Obama and it is because of the color of their skin--or more specifically the color of your skin-- then I think you've found the real racists.

Or at the very least some horrible hypocrites.

[Sheepshank]

256. and yet you use one perceived insult, to add your own insult those who support Obama via BOG?

do you see how idiotic your statement has just become?

[snooper2]

33. Considering he isn't spending his time posting random shit on message boards

I would say so


Doesn't include me though, I'm special!

[HappyMe]

77. So special.

The president is smarter than message board posters, and people will fling chairs at one another over this too.

[grahamhgreen]

34. Or maybe he's smarter than you. And more corrupt....:)

[LondonReign2]

37. Yes, Obama is very smart

Much smarter than me.

No, he didn't plan this from the start. Making believe he rallied the American public against himself is a ridiculous fantasy.

And no, racism is not why people aren't supporting him on Syria, thanks for the insinuation. (How would it sound if we said the only reason you are supporting him is because of his race, and not his policies?).

[dkf]

43. His problem is he thinks he is smarter and more persuasive than he actually is.

Yes he is plenty smart, but his wheeling and dealing skills, his people skills, are not especially strong.

[totodeinhere]

47. Of course he's smart, but that doesn't mean that he's always right.

And this has nothing to do with his race. Your suggestion that it does sickens me. Why can't we discuss the president based upon issues and leave race out of it?

[Maedhros]

51. Even though it appears we may get a favorable outcome (no intervention in Syria)

the Administration was very clumsy in how they handled this incident. Very clumsy. Case in point: John Kerry elicited jeers from the Democratic base.

[philosslayer]

65. Because..

Maybe... just maybe, SOS Kerry saw the long term strategy, and executed it, instead of worrying about short-term jeers from backbenchers.

What you would perceive as clumsy, others would perceive as brilliant.

[Maedhros]

148. Yes - there are those whose political sense of well-being is so dependent upon the President's image

that they view everything he does as "brilliant." I understand. However, I can analyze the situation for myself and reach a much different conclusion.

[Shivering Jemmy]

181. No one disagree with Maedhros

Because if you do it's just that your political sense of well being is dependent on the President's image.

Take heed.

[LondonReign2]

184. How's that strawman working for you?

[Shivering Jemmy]

186. Everything works fine for me

[LondonReign2]

187. Except logic

[Shivering Jemmy]

188. Nah that works great too.

Goddamn I'm awesome

[NoOneMan]

54. Yeah, only racists complain about his bumbling incoherent diplomacy on Syria

Seriously, they let you on computers in the mental ward?

[msanthrope]

55. The most extreme left in this country find President Obama to be a disappointment because he has not

jumped to their tune and conformed to their expectations of what a Black president should be. That they had expectations of a "black" President as opposed to having expectations of a President doesn't strike them as racist....but it inherently is.

[LWolf]

306. No.

First of all, there is no "extreme left" in the United States. What so-called "centrists" try to frame as the "extreme left" are old-style liberals.

Secondly, the disappointment has nothing to do with race. It has to do with electing a DEMOCRAT who sells out old-style liberalism.

[msanthrope]

307. Somebody better go tell the extreme Left they don't exist. mt

[LWolf]

308. They don't exist here.

America is virulently capitalist. Leftists are not. What passes for "the left" in the United States is a version of moderate social liberalism. There's nothing "extreme" about it.

"Somebody" who tries to tell the "extreme Left" anything in the U.S. will be channeling this guy:

[msanthrope]

309. Oh..they are here. The "Rand Paul/Putin" fan club is proof of that. nt

[LWolf]

310. Er...no.

Rand Paul is a conservative, at times "libertarianish," Republican. He does not reside on the left of anything.

Putin is not a leftist. His party, United Russia, is conservative and nationalist. He is not a member of "the left."

I'm not sure, when you refer to their "fan club," whether you mean DUers who don't allow personality or partisanship to trump issues, and will support a position an individual might take whether or not they support that individual's politics as a whole, or whether you are referring to those who actually support Rand Paul politically in this country.

If Putin has "fans" here, I've never run into them. Rand Paul's backers are not in any way "the left."

[Zen Democrat]

59. I think that's part of the problem here. Obama is a brilliant man.

Some of the anti-Obama posters are as myopic as hell, and others are just haters. If you like Chomsky more than Obama, you just may be an anarchist. If you trust FireDogLake, I'll remind you all of the time when Hamsher had Fitzgerald frog-marching Karl Rove to jail.

If you are a Democrat who has been thirsting for someone to really change America? Obama is your guy. LGBT marriage rights, marijuana legalization, a national healthcare program, I could go on. If you think Obama actually didn't do any of these things, let me ask you if they would have happened under McCain or Romney, or Christie, Paul, or any of the other fascists. This is a struggle between democracy and fascism, and if you hate military actions more than fascism, the WWII Axis nations would have loved you.

I didn't believe it at first, I thought America was better than this, but there's no doubt in my mind that when Democrats spout Tea Party crap, it's about a black man in the White House. I have an aged aunt and uncle who have been liberals all their lives. They voted for McCain and Romney ... why? There was just something about Obama they didn't like, something that made them uncomfortable. They start their sentences with, "It's not because he's black ..." ... but it is. I know them well, and they have turned to racism in their old age. After being liberal since the '50's, they are voting for the whites now. So sad and sickening. They are all gung-ho for Hillary, though.

[freshwest]

193. +1,000.

[whathehell]

293. Nah.. Most here know and acknowledge his brilliance..They just don't confuse it with infallibility

like you and the OP, apparently.

[stupidicus]

62. My my, the lefty version of "Palin-envy"

from someone who may be smarter than she is, although that's questionable.

[Iggo]

63. He's smarter than somebody, that's for sure.

[another_liberal]

66. Yep, that must be it . . .

We must all be racists, because we don't want our country to start another pointless, useless war of choice. I'm so glad you pointed that out. (sigh)

[Jessy169]

67. Not maybe

Definitely. The chicken-little know-it-alls screaming on this site about every move Obama makes are a sorry sight to behold. I know they mean well, but they are clueless and can be counted on to nip at Obama's heels and whip out their little arrows to shoot into his backside with every strategic move that Obama makes. Someday, they'll grow up, maybe.

[tularetom]

68. Oh, I'm pretty sure he's way smarter than me

But that doesn't mean what happened in Syria was the product of his umpteen dimensional chess moves.

[OnyxCollie]

69. Nice conspiracy theory you got there.

Assuming Obama meant to do this all along.

[bigtree]

70. you cheapen legitimate arguments and debates about matters of race with this

. . . maybe you can demonstrate a bit more respect for your fellow DUers and their opinions than to superimpose your own skewed bias on top of our individual arguments?

We know, by the law of averages, under your own logic, someone here is smarter than you.

[ClarkJonathanKent]

72. This OP reminds me.....

of that old chestnut about Christian belief in God:

When something good happens, God did it. When something horrific happens, he works in mysterious ways.

He therefore always deserves credit, and NEVER should be blamed for everything because YOU (by design) can't see the bigger picture.

Pardon me for saying, but the line of thinking in this OP is somewhat sycophantic. I remember when the first vote took place in Iraq after we invaded them, and every Republican in the world smugly crossed their arms across their chest and said, "See, he knew what he was doing the whole time."

I'm an overall fan of Obama. I volunteered, I voted for him, all that jazz. But let's keep it in perspective, people.

[Scurrilous]

76. Ya' think!

[Schema Thing]

78. ....put together

[iandhr]

81. You mean...

... The President of the United States is smarter then people who anonymously post on a website?

I NEVER would have guessed

[badtoworse]

86. That's possible. But then again,...

...maybe Obama really did screw this up miserably and Putin bailed him out. Sorry, but I don't see how making a fool out of yourself on the world stage amounts to genius.

[99th_Monkey]

88. :puke:

Please. Your insulting & race-baiting post is most unseemly,
like doing the very thing you accuse others of doing.

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

89. "but maybe he's better at this than you are at whatever you do for a living..."

Now that is insulting on so many levels, and again raises the issue of cult worship that some at DU have for OUR electeds.


Whether somebody scrubs floors, teaches children, bakes bread or paints houses HTH would you profess to know their level of skill or competence?

This whole adoration nonsense of people who work for the people is without a doubt the most insane thing I have seen on DU, and then they go from that to playing the race card.


What a humorless joke the cult has become.

[cali]

109. this is just about trying to shut down criticism of the President

I try not to refer to people who have this extreme loyalty to the President as a cult, but when they take it to this despicable level, they deserve it- and harsher than that.

[Egalitarian Thug]

114. But the unintentional irony that comes from them is so very amusing.

Watching the twisting, squirming, self-propelled nonsense is a big part of coming to DU.
& R

[Maedhros]

189. I've seen this behavior up close and personal

from my best friend, even.

He is so incredibly emotionally invested in the Democrat vs. Republican war that he cannot even countenance the idea that Obama might be pushing bad policies, much less speak out against them, because that would mean that the 2008 election wasn't the tide-changing victory over the enemy that he imagines it was. In his fervent partisan mind, in 2008 we humiliated the Republicans and elected a President that would put his boot on their collective neck. Admitting that this President shares many of the same backers, and has adopted many of the same agendas, as those same despised Republicans causes far too much cognitive dissonance to be allowed.

Bottom line: these people, much like the Tea Party, have their sights on the wrong enemies - each other. The real enemies are relatively anonymous and stand behind the Congress and the Senate directing policy with campaign contributions and other less visible levers. Our enemies are ecstatic to have us directing our energies into partisan skirmishes rather than toward unmasking and gelding them.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

91. AMEN!! The self-righteous indignation is simply breathtaking. I am 100% confident in this president.

And yes, he IS smarter than most of us.

[last1standing]

94. Maybe you're using race to cover up for your own inadequacies.

Maybe you need to play the race card as a way to make sure no one ever questions you or your ideas (such as they are).

[frylock]

155. boom!

[RetroLounge]

95. Yeah, he's pretty smart. So?

I still think the way certain posters put on their knee pads and a cheerleader outfit and fellate his every word and action is kind of creepy, juvenile, and troll-like.

That being said, your race-card play in the OP is fucking brilliant, and by that I mean total bullshit.



RL

[BrainDrain]

99. Single word answer should suffice.........

Horseshit.

[CakeGrrl]

101. No maybe about it. The MSM and RWNJs are apoplectic.

The segements of the left who align with them aren't far behind.

[msongs]

102. he has certainly killed more women and kids than I have or ever will. Is that a sign of smartness?

[Jackpine Radical]

112. Obama is precognitively omniscient

or omnisciently precognitive or however that goes.

He KNEW that he wouldn't be able to raise enough public enthusiasm for a war. He KNEW Putin would help him with the walk-back. He KNEW Assad would go along.

And furthermore, he's gonna refuse to accept his pension after he leaves the White House because he's just gonna buy a Powerball ticket on the way out.

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

128. Precomniscient! He's Precomniscient!

[cali]

116. reccing this is contemptible

it's pathetic and desperate. It's devoid of any decency. It reflects no critical thinking.

Calling people here racists because they disagree with the President is about as low and vile as you can possibly go.

I now know exactly what you and the people who recced your foul op are.

[Cali_Democrat]

185. Reccing. n/t

[tblue]

215. It's arguably racist to support him

unconditionally with low expectations. No. I don't think of Obama as the BLACK President. But some people can't get his race, whether they like it or they don't, out of their heads. I am not sure but, from what I've read of him in his books, I don't think he'd even want support on that basis.

Full disclosure: I am just as black as Obama, but I don't support him or anyone because of their race, and I sure as hell don't hold him to a lower standard because of it either.

[whathehell]

257. Thank you, I agree, but supporting him with 'low expectations"?

You may be right, some may have done that, but no one I knew.

I'm a white woman and I've always thought he was brilliant as did everyone

I knew who voted for him

That, of course, doesn't mean that, like anyone, he can't make a mistake..

I'm a feminist, but I don't support every female democratic candidate, just because

they're females. I'm not a fan of Hillary, for instance, because I think she's too conservative.

Elizabeth Warren, on the other hand, is someone I could gladly support.

It's understandable that members of underrepresented groups, women, racial, religious and

sexual minorities, want to see one of their own rise to the highest position in the land.

That being said, I agree that it's foolish to support anyone solely on that basis.

[tblue]

302. By "low expectations"

I mean expecting less of him than of any other President. For me, I want a fiscal progressive President. I don't see that in President Obama, and I evaluate his performance on that basis without making excuses for him--just as I would a President Hillary or any other Democrat.

You seem like a very cool person. Reasonable and intellectually honest. Hope you have a lovely weekend.

[whathehell]

303. Okay, I get what you're saying..

and I agree completely in terms of his not being a fiscal progressive...When it comes to politics, I

I think we would do well to be loyal to our principals first. I believe that's the only way we will

will get what we want.

Tblue, I must thank you for the very nice compliment!...You seem like a very cool person too! Have

yourself a great weekend as well.

[felix_numinous]

117. I am definitely prejudiced

I prejudged Barack Obama from the very start as a respectful and upstanding man, and that has not changed. But I also admit this tendency is likely a character flaw in me because I had ideas about what this meant.

I prejudged the office of the presidency too, and what stage this country was in. But maybe Barack Obama prejudged what he was able to do when he was running for office, who knows. We might be gifted with his memoirs someday to find out.

Prejudging people can go both ways--to do so favorably in access can harm oneself, while unfavorable prejudice leads to bigotry and can harm others-- either way it can be delusionary.

[nadinbrzezinski]

119. oy

[Whisp]

121. Hearty K&R. You'd think they'd learn by now

but no.

o man. more eggs, please.

[salib]

125. He seems to be smarter than me.

However, smart people can be wrong too.

[vi5]

130. He probably is smarter than me.

I would venture to guess so are more than a few hard right Republican elected officials.

Doesn't make them any more compassionate, or accurate in their thinking and predictions on any number of subjects. And much like Obama it definitely does not make them liberal.

[krispos42]

133. Or maybe, just maybe...

...popular opinion forced him to do something other than what he wanted to do.

[rury]

140. Right on Yavin4

A lot of white people who think they are liberal and broad minded have that underlying discomfort with black leadership or underlying suspicion that we are not up to the job or are in over our heads in positions of responsibility. That is what is happening to President Barack Obama.
I have worked in a library and had that experience in a most telling way. A patron would come to the reference desk and ask a question. When the query was directed to me, some member of the general public would chime in an answer the question FOR ME. They never did that to a white staff member. I had to put them in their place several times and say, " I will answer the question, thank you."
And I have had supervisors express surprise at my vocabulary,even though I have a Masters in Journalism. They don't react that way to a well-spoken white person. The old "you're so articulate" observation.
President Obama has been subject to more sharp, often unfair criticism than any president before him, someone is always nipping at his heels from the left and the right and second- guessing him. He has accomplished a LOT, but it's never enough. You always have to be twice as good in order to receive half the credit when you're black in America. It's a goddamned shame.Obama and Russian President Vladimir Putin discussed the issue of Syria relinquishing their chemical weapons to international control and the predominantly white MSM and many here of DU believe it just had to be Putin's idea instead of Obama's, Beacuse in their worldview the white man always has tocometotherescue of the hapless black man.

[Roland99]

141. Yeah...this multi-level chess player is AWESOME!

give me a fucking break!

[sibelian]

144. Maybe that idea makes you happy.

But as there's no way of distinguishing between that and any other private reality one may wish to construct... it's difficult to see how you can convince me of it.

There's something you need to have a think about - there's never been an American president that didn't fuck some stuff up.

I'm sorry. It's just true.

I'm going to ignore your comments on race.

[4Q2u2]

146. Everything is by Perspective

If The President and I were going into a legal battle I would not like my chances. It would be Slim to none and Slim is on his horse. If the contest was fixing and operating Heavy Equipment, I bet my margin of victory in my field of expertise would be greater than his.
It reminds of a lecture I was at once and one attendee was telling another a Polish joke. Well the instructor overheard the joke and just so happened to be Polish. After the "Dumb Pollock" joke the instructor asked the person telling the joke if they spoke Polish. They replied no and the instructor asked them how it felt to be dumber than a Pollock.
People do not know everything, everyone makes mistakes. Questioning the President is not only a National Pastime, but a National Right no matter the race. You seem to have looked into the heart of some people and deemed all guilty, with a qualifier of course.

[Leontius]

147. And then maybe he's not as smart as you think he is.

[frylock]

149. ODS Type 2..

a clear cut case.

[DRoseDARs]

159. Oh good, we're trotting out the Criticize-Pres.-Obama-therefore-racist thread again.

Your little after-the-fact disclaimer is too cute by half, too.

Pathetic.

[Safetykitten]

161. Really? Then where is single payer?

[Pretzel_Warrior]

166. he's smarter than the vast majority here

[IronLionZion]

173. Maybe it has jack shit to do with anything. Some people like to fight the power

no matter who or what. It makes them feel like brave revolutionary patriots and gives them some excitement if they're bored with life.

They would happily do this to Al Gore or John Kerry or Hillary or anyone else too, probably even Elizabeth Warren.

I'm decent at my job but I tend to look at online message boards on the clock. Obama and Kerry are many times better at their jobs than I am at mine.

[pa28]

174. Another accusation of racism.

Just stop it.

[Rex]

183. 'Some of you'? So you are leaving yourself as an exclusion in the 'you'?

Are you stating you are smarter or as smart as Obama?

[Union Scribe]

190. Shit like that is why I don't take you fans seriously.

Walking it back to "well not ALL of you are racists" isn't better. Here's a hint: it's not Obama people hate on DU, it's his juvenile followers who post garbage about liberals day in and day out.

[Cha]

191. I think without accusing anyone of "racism" that

President Obama is smarter than a lot of people and better at his job than some want to admit.

They may be very good at their job but just can't comprehend how Obama can be so good at his. They underestimate him and their own risk.

[Scurrilous]

192. Boink.

[MH1]

194. I'm damned sure that I'm better at MY job than Obama is at MY job.

I certainly expect that he is better at HIS job than I would be at HIS job.

[former9thward]

197. Maybe some of you try to paint being anti-war as being racist.

Because you don't have any other facts so you resort to slander. Just some of you of course....

[nebenaube]

198. did I mention that smoking pot stimulates micro-glial growth? n/t

[Doctor_J]

199. And maybe some of us are smarter than he is

Is there a point to this vanity thread?

[geek tragedy]

248. No, none of us are. nt

[jimlup]

200. And maybe it's not always about "smarts"

I don't find being smart to be particularly helpful when dealing with moral problems.

Threatening to initiate an act of war against a sovereign nation is moral act not an intelligent one. Sorry but this fails. The warmongers may yet get themselves off the hook. That doesn't make them right or smart.

[PowerToThePeople]

202. Maybe you have no idea where you are posting

No one on DU has the views and thoughts that you suggest in your OP. If they do show such thoughts, they will get pizza very quickly. Why the hate?

[rhett o rick]

203. How did this get out of the BOG? Couldnt bait any flames there? nm

[cui bono]

204. So basically if we disagree with the president we're incompetent at our jobs or racists.

Wow.

Why don't you try arguing something real like policies or events. instead of insulting most of the board?

[Mira]

211. As for me...

coming off the top of my head reading your post
and not having even bothered to read any responses
let me tell you that the fact our President is African American has long ago become integrated into my "knowing" him to that the only time I think about it is when it comes to someone pointing it out, or a post like yours, or that he got re-elected "in spite" of it.

More than once President Obama appeared on my usually muted TV, I rushed to turn the sound up and walk up to listen, and I have the fleeting thought he's been on a brief vacation. His tan startles me, and then I remember he looks like that. In my mind he's my President, just like that, in all his beautiful man glory.

In my opinion and observation the fact that our President is African American, or a mixture like most American Black people, is not much of an issue around the folks on DU.
It's an issue with those who are scared to be articulate, and those who spout talking points they don't even understand. Whose issue is race, and they are living in a country where in many social gatherings they can't quite get away with mentioning it, any more. Thank goodness for slow evolution.
I live in the South, and I know whereof I speak.
And this issue is not one on my DU.

I may be over-reacting. But I am responding from my heart to what you said.

[Douglas Carpenter]

216. ah wouldn't DU be so much better if it was a place where would could truly celebrate our President,

A place where we could speak of his goodness, share anecdotes of his kindness, marvel at his greatness and reflect upon his wisdom?

[idwiyo]

218. I am not a politician. Makes me automatically better than any one of them.

Including the ones I actually support.

As to your insinuations of racism, it seems like you are the one who brought skin colour into the conversation. On DU. Wonder why...

[Enrique]

220. so is Henry Kissinger

but I'm not happy to see this:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023646267

[KG]

228. enjoy your crumbs, knave.

[whathehell]

231. Maybe, just maybe, being exceptionally smart isn't the Be and End All of Everything.

There are these things called Experience, Character, and Aptitude that

can have at least as big an impact on one's success than raw intelligence.

You, and many others should check out the latest research contained in a book

called "Emotional Intellience". It estimates that intelligence makes up only

about one quarter, or 25% of what an individual needs to succeed.

[LWolf]

232. Maybe some can just not deal

with a hero that has clay feet.


Smarter? I doubt it. I don't doubt his intelligence. Neither do I doubt mine. Better at his job than I am at mine? Not a chance in hell.

I guess it all depends on what you think his job is; I don't think he's very good at being president. Not because of lack of intelligence or ability; not because he's an African American. Because he is a neo-liberal. He does a great job promoting the neo-liberal agenda, which is not the job I want any president to do.

[winter is coming]

234. He hides it well. n/t

[kenny blankenship]

251. He's certainly smarter than his personality cult.

But that's a given in all such arrangements down through history.

[noiretextatique]

263. +1

[orenbus]

261. No War!

[DCBob]

266. Or maybe simply that Obama isnt an warmongering idiot...

which is what many on this board seem to be suggesting.

[Dawgs]

274. Holy shit. This post got 80+ recs. Is DU fucking insane? n/t

[madrchsod]

283. yes.........

[AgingAmerican]

277. And maybe, just maybe, some of us are smarter than him?

Not sure what the point of the OP is.

[OregonBlue]

278. I don't know if he's smarter than most of us but he definitely has more information than ANY of us.

[Douglas Carpenter]

297. as someone else put it so eloquently so long ago - it is good to see the same philosphy here on DU

[SidDithers]

304. DU rec...

Sid