Ended war in Iraq. Set back Iran's nuclear program with Israel's help. Got Osama without a fiasco

[Pretzel_Warrior]

Let other nations do heavy lifting while directing air support in what would be a dictator-toppling maneuver against Libya.

Yes, this Obama foreign policy team is a bunch of war-mongering PNAC'ers AND rank amateurs who were schooled by Putin.

Uhh....yeah.

[leftstreet]

1. Couldn't even get us a Public Option

This is why DU can't have nice things

Blind Obama adulation and worship spawns crayon-breaking responses

[Motown_Johnny]

18. OMG! Seriously?

Yes, a public option would have been great.. but the idea that not getting it is somehow a huge failure is insane.

The ACA is a huge improvement over what we had. If you have problems with it not being liberal enough (as I do) then blame the blue dog Democrats who would not vote for something more liberal. We didn't get any (R) votes anyways. It was the (D)s from red states who sank the public option.



Reality... deal with it.

[ConservativeDemocrat]

19. Vermont is experimenting with the Public Option under Obamacare

Since the law allows it.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/post/is-the-public-option-dead-not-quite/2012/01/13/gIQADi70wP_blog.html

But, speaking of this critique of yours that isn't true... Please Proceed.

- C.D. Proud Member of the Reality Based Community

[flamingdem]

40. good info CD nt

[Renew Deal]

33. You forgot Pony

[Summer Hathaway]

45. Pointing out someone's achievements

does not equal "blind adulation and worship".

Well, not in the real world anyway. But then DU is so far removed from the real world these days ...

[RC]

2. What do you expect when Obama surrounded himself with Republicans, DLC types and bu$h holdovers?

[Sheepshank]

27. didn't you already use this heading in another thread?

not much effort in this particular unfounded slam.

[RC]

35. I probably did. And it is quite true.

Has Obama even appointed any actual Liberals? Who, to what? I don't consider DLC and New Democrats Liberal. Neither do I consider Republicans Liberal.
That (D) by the name is not meaning much anymore.

[Sheepshank]

49. stuck record doesn't seem to have much room for discussion

thanks anyway

[RC]

55. Don't let the facts get in the way of revisionist history.

[Sheepshank]

56. do have anything in your arsenal that is unique and not regurgitated clap trap?

[RC]

58. Can't defend the truth, huh? Descending into insults and put downs?

No Google links, not even to your own posts?

[Sheepshank]

60. did you offer any links to support your assertions in the previous posts?

...perhpas they were the invisible sort?

As if Obama is the onlyh POTUS EVER to appoint accross party lines? You want to make that into a federal case? Really? Examples of OTHER PRESIDENTIAL APPOINTMENTS that crosses party lines:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_political_appointments_across_party_lines

As if your statement on Obama's appointment habits are unusual and unique enough that you must winge about it? As if Obama didn't say during his first campaign that he wouldn't be reaching across the ailse? As if the appointments in the wiki link are the only appointments Obama made?

Hyperbole isn't a way to influence any political discussion imho.

[RC]

64. Here's few.

Once Again, Obama Does Something No GOP President Bothers to Do
http://prospect.org/article/once-again-obama-does-something-no-gop-president-bothers-do

Obama's second-term Cabinet
http://www.cnn.com/interactive/2012/11/politics/obama-cabinet/index.html

Barack Obama to appoint Republicans to key cabinet roles
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/barackobama/3448362/Barack-Obama-to-appoint-Republicans-to-key-cabinet-roles.html

Surly you remember the brouhaha over that last one ^.

I'm sure you'd denigrate me because of the source of the link just above, so...
Obama Pledges to Appoint Republican to Cabinet
http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/11/15/obama-pledges-to-appoint-republican-to-cabinet/?_r=0

And don't forget, Obama admits he admires Ronald Reagan. And also don't forget the Right of Center, DLC Hawks and Wall Street friendly appointments and advisers.
Is it any wonder the recovery is so slow. Bailed out the big banks, but not main street. Social Security always seems to be on the table. Medicare is being cut. Obamacare was birthed in a Right-wing think tank, The Heritage Center and fined tuned in Massachusetts.
But you don't see any of that because Obama has a (D) by his name, so that makes anything he does A-OK.

[Sheepshank]

66. again...Obama indicated in his first campaign that he would be appointing across the ailse

short term memory can likely lead to making up shit, attempting to rewrite history and pretending the reality is otherwise.

Appointing cabinet members from other parties is NOT unusual, and frankly attempting to portray that these opposing party appointments as exclusive to Obama, and wholly done in this manner, is simply promoting a lie.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

3. You forgot the donuts.

[Pretzel_Warrior]

5. lololol! oh, and bringing the world 2 cute girls and 2 cute dogs

[OnyxCollie]

10. Supporting Carlyle Group properties Dunkin Donuts and Booz Allen Hamilton.

[Pretzel_Warrior]

20. huh? Dunkin Donuts is owned by a consortium of private equity firms. Carlyle is one

and Bain Capital Partners and Thomas H. Lee Partners are the others.

[Gravitycollapse]

4. Libya has turned into a bit of a hell-scape.

[Victor_c3]

6. Yup, like Iraq

well, maybe not quite like Iraq, but he was able to make that hell-scape after only spending a little under $1 billion while it took bush nearly $1 trillion to mess up Iraq good and proper.

Woohoo! He can mess up a country for 1/1000th of the cost that bush could!

[Pretzel_Warrior]

9. I believe "that country" was already messed up prior to US involvement in bombardment

you know....like Gaddafi wantonly killing civilians at will with his artillery and air force?

http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/vengence-from-the-skies-libyan-air-force-could-be-gadhafi-s-trump-card-a-749121.html

How soon people forget when there's an Obama to blame for everything.

[Skidmore]

12. Thank you.

Context is important and I get sick of the constant blame game without attention to reality of situation. This is why I defend the President while I don't always agree with some of his decisions.

[Gravitycollapse]

13. It was bad. But we made it much worse. Like a 500% increase in murder rates in 2 years.

http://www.libyaherald.com/2013/01/09/murder-rate-up-500-in-two-years/

[Pretzel_Warrior]

14. so it's Obama's fault that Gaddafi released a bunch of prisoners right before Tripoli fell?

and yes...500+ murders is horrible for a whole country. But they are rank amateurs when compared with murdering going on in places like Chicago.

I bet Libya is more stable than people want to admit if we're hanging our hat on crime stats.

[Gravitycollapse]

15. Mass arrests. Torture. Executions. 5 fold increase in homicide.

Just to name a few issues. The country is a shit show right now; it is certainly far from "stable." And we haven't helped.

[ConservativeDemocrat]

36. Blame-America-first. Blame-America-always.

If we were helping them sort of their problems, people like you would be the first to blame the U.S. for every little problem in the country.

Libya is a free. Free to make it into a paradise or a hell hole. But it's entirely up to the Libyans.

Isn't that what you say you want? Or is this just another excuse for expressing more hatred of America?

- C.D. Proud Member of the Reality Based Community

[Gravitycollapse]

38. "Libya is a free." - A statement totally ignorant of reality.

The removal of a dictator does not a free state make. Libyans are being subjected to a newly repressive regime.

That's the stupidity of American war-mongering. We think that deposing a dictator fixes the problem. It doesn't. It creates a power vacuum that more often than not leads to an even worse regime.

[ConservativeDemocrat]

67. Libya's problems are with violent militias, not a "newly repressive regime"

Groups like Ansar al-Sharia are clearly a problem.

Not that the regime is angelic, they're not so much repressive as corrupt. Gunmen in the east have turned off the oil-taps, demanding an end to the corruption around oil production that hasn't changed since Ghadaffi's rule.

In other words, it's local politics, and they're trying to work through their problems. Which they couldn't do before, since there was a dictator involved.

Seriously guy, just stop. Defending brutal murderous dictators is the Republican's parody of hard left positions, and you're actually making such arguments seriously.

- C.D. Proud Member of the Reality Based Community

[Victor_c3]

16. Sounds kind of like Iraq

Nothing stopped Sadam from slaughtering his people with chemical weapons in the 80s or from using his military after the first Gulf War to brutaly suppress the uprisings. But the country wasn't good and properly mess up so we had to step in and do it right in 2003.

I'm not blaming Obama for anything. I'm just saying that the use of our military in another country's internal affairs is completely wrong and makes the situation worse.

[Pretzel_Warrior]

17. a dictator is gone at the hands of his own people. they must chart their own peaceful course

This Libya action had the stamp of approval of NATO and the U.N. Antiwar zealots say "We shouldn't have acted at all" and conservative wing nuts said "Obama is leading from behind." Based on that feedback, I'm willing to say he got it about right.

[Gravitycollapse]

21. "Anti-war zealots" Seriously?

Have some cooth.

[Pretzel_Warrior]

23. there are times war is necessary. that is a fact. not often, but there are times it is morally

acceptable to engage militarily.

[Gravitycollapse]

24. And just because I protest this potential war does not mean I think all war is unnecessary.

So maybe you should think twice before jamming your foot in your mouth.

[msanthrope]

34. An 0-6 Leave on this post. nt

[Pretzel_Warrior]

39. holy hell. someone alerted on that? lol. they are out for blood on me today.

I got one hidden for apologizing to a poster for them being too dense to understand how the real world works.

[SidDithers]

41. You've got a big target on your back right now...

Assume that almost everything you post is gonna get alerted.

But know that there are lots of us who agree with you.



Sid

[Pretzel_Warrior]

44. thank you. I do appreciate it.

[Victor_c3]

62. wasn't me. I'll take abuse all day long

And I didn't find anything that you said offensive or over the top.

Oh well. I've had people throw hand grenades at me. Throwing a few words (not even course words at that) is nothing.

[OnyxCollie]

7. Wanted to extend occupation in Iraq

past Bush-imposed deadline, but couldn't get immunity for US troops because of exposure of US war crimes in Iraq, courtesy of Chelsea Manning and WikiLeaks.

[Pretzel_Warrior]

11. more revisionist history

http://www.cnn.com/2012/10/23/politics/fact-check-iraq

The largest force planned to stay beyond original deadline was 3k-5k for training. Not tens of thousands across Iraq that Bush had stationed there in imperial hegemony.

Why let facts get in the way of "blame Obama first"?

[Octafish]

29. U.S. Troops Are Leaving Because Iraq Doesn't Want Them There

President Obama announced that he had kept a campaign promise by ending the war -- but he didn't have much of a choice

YOCHI J. DREAZEN
The Atlantic, OCT 21 2011

President Obama's speech formally declaring that the last 43,000 U.S. troops will leave Iraq by the end of the year was designed to mask an unpleasant truth: The troops aren't being withdrawn because the U.S. wants them out. They're leaving because the Iraqi government refused to let them stay.

Obama campaigned on ending the war in Iraq but had instead spent the past few months trying to extend it. A 2008 security deal between Washington and Baghdad called for all American forces to leave Iraq by the end of the year, but the White House -- anxious about growing Iranian influence and Iraq's continuing political and security challenges -- publicly and privately tried to sell the Iraqis on a troop extension. As recently as last week, the White House was trying to persuade the Iraqis to allow 2,000-3,000 troops to stay beyond the end of the year.

Those efforts had never really gone anywhere; One senior U.S. military official told National Journal last weekend that they were stuck at "first base" because of Iraqi reluctance to hold substantive talks.

That impasse makes Obama's speech at the White House on Friday less a dramatic surprise than simple confirmation of what had long been expected by observers of the moribund talks between the administration and the government of Iraqi Prime Minister Nuri al-Maliki, which believes its own security forces are more than up to the task of protecting the country from terror attacks originating within its borders or foreign incursions from neighboring countries.

In Washington, many Republican lawmakers had spent recent weeks criticizing Obama for offering to keep a maximum of 3,000 troops in Iraq, far less than the 10,000-15,000 recommended by top American commanders in Iraq. That political point-scoring helped obscure that the choice wasn't Obama's to make. It was the Iraqis', and a recent trip to the country provided vivid evidence of just how unpopular the U.S. military presence there has become -- and just how badly the Iraqi political leadership wanted those troops to go home.

CONTINUED...

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2011/10/us-troops-are-leaving-because-iraq-doesnt-want-them-there/247174/

[Pretzel_Warrior]

30. buried in all of that is the fact that Obama and team could have worked with Iraqi government

to meet some of the concessions being asked for to maintain a troop presence of 3K to 5K but precisely BECAUSE Obama was set on ending the occupation, he had no incentive to negotiate anything meaningful. Just let the status of forces agreement run it's course and get the hell out of Dodge.

That is what happened.

[Octafish]

50. Right. Like the time Obama repeated the Bush line that Taliban refused to turn over bin Laden.

Which was not so, but that didn't stop President Obama from repeating it as if it were.

[Capt. Obvious]

8. He also hit a 3 pointer

[NuclearDem]

22. Status of Forces agreement ended Iraq.

[Pretzel_Warrior]

25. A McCain admin would have reneged on that one.

Obama kept the promise to wind it down. I'm sorry you cannot give him credit for anything at all. Not even holding to that promise.

[NuclearDem]

26. Yes, I give him credit for sticking to what had already been established.

But it's pretty fucking sad when something as simple as honoring our word is now a key achievement.

[Pretzel_Warrior]

28. not really. most average people love to make lists of "broken promises"

it makes them feel better about their own pathetic lives and lack of achievement to go after someone who has taken on such a challenging leadership role and who has, despite all of the dramatic hyperbole, been a pretty good president regarding progressive values.

[NuclearDem]

31. On some issues. Only on some.

TPP is still set to go through, the bankers and BushCo have gotten off scotfree, Larry Summers is still the frontrunner for the Fed, there's an extrajudicial kill list, civilians are being blown up in drone strikes, Keystone is still up in the air, Gitmo prisoners are being force fed, and the president wouldn't have even brought up class war if it weren't for Occupy.

Credit where it's due, but he's not been the hard left progressive his diehard supporters make him out to be.

[Rex]

32. Awww...

Sadz thread fail.

[Pretzel_Warrior]

43. cool story, bro

[BeyondGeography]

37. Remember Mitt Romney at the foreign policy debate?

Me neither.

[NuclearDem]

46. Going for number 12?

[Pretzel_Warrior]

47. My post was directed at Romney

or can you not see that?

[CreekDog]

48. well apparently you have poor aim

At Tue Sep 10, 2013, 01:51 PM an alert was sent on the following post:

Please proceed to look like a Mormon not ready for prime time slime.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=3639238

REASON FOR ALERT:

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS:

"Cultist" is a slimey attack on Mormons. Cannot be tolerated here.

JURY RESULTS

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Tue Sep 10, 2013, 02:01 PM, and the Jury voted 4-2 to HIDE IT.

Juror #1 voted to HIDE IT and said: Pretzel Warrior is out of controll.
Juror #2 voted to HIDE IT and said: "cultist", plus rude just to start with.
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: Cultist is a personal opinion (which is still allowed). Not slimey at all.
Juror #4 voted to HIDE IT and said: No explanation given
Juror #5 voted to HIDE IT and said: No explanation given
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: No explanation given

Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.

[11 Bravo]

51. Damned straight, because DU juries NEVER make head-scratchingly stupid decisions!

[CreekDog]

54. Oh they always do!

Just not this time.

[BeyondGeography]

52. Wow...dumb and dumber

The alert and the decision.

[morningfog]

53. You have a strange and unhealthy hobby.

[Logical]

57. LOL, cherry pick much? You are really like a comedian. n-t

[Douglas Carpenter]

59. and he heals the broken hearted, sets the captive free, makes the lame to walk again and taught the

blind to see

[great white snark]

61. Absolutely.

And a big hell yeah for you not letting 'em rewrite history.

[rug]

63. You left out his escalation in Afghanistan.

[Scurrilous]

65. K & R