And we continue to be further divided (Warning graphic image included)

[nadinbrzezinski]

and I do not think those divisions will heal any more.

I can promise this, I am done. I will continue to use the ignore list with people who have no interest in discussing things, and will never ever admit that perhaps the President made a strategic mistake. The last incident involves Putin, who sadly one has to quality as not precisely a man that likes human rights and all that. And internally he is not precisely a cute and cuddly leader.

Yes, he is a man to be despised over his LGBT policies, and I hope that Russia will find the light some day, after all the US was where the Russians are at present not too long ago. And there are states still where you can be fired for being gay, and where we do have serious hate crimes.

But what he wrote in his editorial at the NYT hit a mark. It is so deep that it has led to massive making fun (don't worry folks you are likely already on ignore) and the usual classic USA, USA, USA reaction. That is jingoism of the worst type. To quote Samuel Jonson, (3)"Nationalism is the last refuge of the scoundrel."

Yes, the POTUS made a serious mistake with the let's bomb Syria policy. And no, he did not force the NO vote in Parliament. The Brits are as tired of this as we are, and Cameron miscalculated. When even his party said no, you know how serious that was. Without that vote, I am betting we already would have bombed, regardless of what the American People might want. That vote threw every calculation off kilter and Obama had no votes to pass the resolution in Congress. So best to withdraw it, before another embarrassment.

The amount of political capital spent on the 10th chemical weapons use incident tells me this was not about chemical weapons. That is just the convenient, quite brutally honest, heart string excuse. There is more to this than the chemical use convention. It is the grand chess game, and at this time I would say the Russians have control of the board. (1)

But here, we used to have very serious discussions when Bush was President and if Bush even proposed doing this, there would have been complete unity against it.

Personally it is gotten so bad, that yes, I will come and read, and comment. But quite frankly I am starting to think that the fever of 2014 will be insane and will remain in place until 2016. One of the reasons, a lot of folks like me intend to vote our hearts any longer and are immune to the BUT, BUT ugly republicans. Why? In some basic policies there is no light between the parties, like there was no light in the 1880s. We have also become quite skeptical about the latest GOLSTEIN that our government conjures and realize that the surface shiny reasons have nothing to do with the real reason. (2)

I will repeat this, Syria has nothing to do with this.



But all to do with this.



and this





It is not unlike my local mayoral scandal. Once you start digging the surface scandal is just there to inflame the passions. After all the world is far more complex, and there are those who refuse to think in more than binary ways. Some of us look beyond that. The world is far more complex, and yes, at times scary, than the black and white thinking we are seeing here.

!.- Necessary footnote. The Old Chess Board and control of it goes back millennia. Having control of the chess board is a very temporary thing. Most empires that have had control of the chessboard for any time are gone.

2.- And it is amazing this has to be clarified. But in the world I personally inhabit politics is not binary, and especially at the local level, there are other things than just republicans and democrats. I live in a state where the fastest growing party is the decline to state affiliation party. More than a few political scientists see that as quite possibly the beginning of a voter's revolt, where voters will refuse to vote for both national parties. Locally both Democrats and Republicans understand this potential. and have been scrambling to get people back, with little success mind you. It is sad that this has to be explained, but it is life.

3.- Thanks to Watch the Sky for that correction. I could swear the first was Sam Clemens. I never mind learning something new. Thanks

[Rex]

1. The god of irony called

and wants his statue back.

[bunnies]

15. Stop being so childish.

This is the "adults only" table, Rex. I may have to plonk you.

[Rex]

16. Damm...kids table again!?

I am so tired of eating with plastic forks!

[bunnies]

19. Who gave you a fork?!

No sharp objects for you! Dont make me tell you again.

[Rex]

20. It was just ONE TIME!

Geez...I drop the fork ONE TIME on the floor and cause WWIII...it had butter on it and my grip was bad from a championship handball tournament the night before!

Series.

[bunnies]

21. Just as long as you dont get all stabby with it.

I know how you nazis are.

[Rex]

23. True...hey is that a nickel on the floor

maybe you should pick it up...I'll stand right behind you and protect your back from wolverines.

[bunnies]

25. That does it.

Youre back to spoons.

[Rex]

26. DAM.

[Brickbat]

35. YOU KIDS ARE WHY WE CAN'T HAVE NICE THINGS AND COHERENT OPs.

[pinboy3niner]

37. I suppose it was inevitable that somebody would show up with...

...a spork.

[bunnies]

78. Rex is not allowed to have sporks!

No sharps!!!!

[pinboy3niner]

83. Oops! I should have known better. My bad!

Rex isn't even allowed to have pudding since that tragic pudding incident...

[bunnies]

87. lmao!

You have rendered me speechless. Bravo.

[Rex]

42. AND?

[bunnies]

80. This thread would have been totally coherent without us.

Best joke ever!

[NuclearDem]

56. Hey! Watch your mouth!

I swear I will turn this thread around RIGHT NOW.

[Rex]

57. no...

I'll bee-have.

[pinboy3niner]

89. Hive heard that before

[Rex]

141. Hive you?

nt.

[pinboy3niner]

143. Are you living in a bumble? nt

[zappaman]

147. You two are creating quite the kerflunkle.

Easy peachy...

[pinboy3niner]

148. Come on out for some honey, we won't laugh at your comb-over.

Really! Trust us!

[Rex]

150. Bee-hive yourself!

Really need a bee emoticon right about now.

[awoke_in_2003]

58. Handball tournament...

So, that's what you crazy kids are calling it these days?

[bunnies]

82. Who doesnt like handballs?

[blm]

2. Don't completely agree, but, I know you have integrity.

rec

[liberal_at_heart]

3. The powers that want the power, oil, and money will never stop until they get what they want.

[Mojorabbit]

76. That is how I look at it also. If there were no oil in the area we would not give a hoot

about any of these people.

[brooklynite]

134. So, was it the oil that got us into Bosnia?

[Mojorabbit]

139. I don't know, what do you think?

Bosnia region, Shell in oil exploration deal
Oct 13 (Reuters) - Bosnia's Muslim-Croat federation will seal a preliminary deal next month with Shell Exploration Company, part of Royal Dutch Shell , to start exploring potential natural gas and oil fields in the region, the government said on Thursday.

Energy Minister Erdal Trhulj said the government approached the oil major in May, after deciding to revive oil and gas exploration plans first made before Bosnia's 1992-95 war, when U.S. and British researchers found deposits in the north and south.

"We have finally reached a point where both sides agree to sign a two-year memorandum with a possibility of a one-year extension in early November," Trhulj told reporters.

Under the deal, Bosnia's largest engineering group Energoinvest, which was the local partner in the original project, will hand over all documentation to Shell.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/10/13/bosnia-shell-oil-idUSL5E7LD37Q20111013

[snagglepuss]

154. Thanks for posting, I'm sure I'm not only one who is reading this for the first time.

It's hard to come to terms with the amount of smoke and mirrors; lies and deceptions.

[MNBrewer]

4. I think I'm on your ignore, and I agree with you on this

100%

[Pretzel_Warrior]

5. So to sum up...Putin won, and you are so fed up with Obama you may consider voting Republican?

That's what I got out of your post. Admittedly, your powers of deductive reasoning and written communication are far above mine, so I may have misinterpreted.

****oh, and nice edit after the fact.

[delrem]

47. Your "summation" is just plain false.

If I can't say it's a lie, I don't know what to say it is.

[dtom67]

52. who sats Putin Won?

Sooner or later we will attack Syria. There is just too much money to be made.

I think the part of the point of this post is that it is quite tiresome to constantly be besieged by attacks that try to divert attention from what is going on by making the poster out to be Anti-Obama, a closet republican or a worshiper of some other personality ( PUTIN, et al ) involved in the issue. These attacks often come from posters clamoring about "facts" whilst reading verbatim from White house press releases. Some will just blindly protect "the Party", regardless of the topic.

They must be exhausted by now....

We all have our opinions and we all know we will not change each-others minds by posting here. Let those that come here to view make up their minds.

So, to sum up ... you want the pictures above to be the result of US tomahawks, not chemical weapons. You cannot defend the killing of more innocents for the profit of a few, and no one is buying the humanitarian war hustle. Perhaps if they had hired Sally Struthers it would have worked....

so the best defense of the Administration is the thinly veiled accusation of being a " commie"? Perhaps you could dust off the good old " pinko " slur while you are at it.

Have no fear, you will get your way.New reasons for attacking Syria will be presented in the following weeks. We will go kill us some " Ay-rabs " real soon( not nice when someone insinuates that you are something you are not, is it?). Our cash-strapped government will magically find funding for the attack, which will predictably escalate into a war. It might be delayed for now, but war will find a way. And the same pols who pushed for war will come to us , hat-in-hand saying that we are broke and need to cut entitlements. And the" Pro- random-killing-to-teach-assad-a-lesson " crowd will sharpen its claws in preparation to defend chained cpi and other domestic spending cuts that will be needed to curb reckless spending.

In the end, you will win.

I don't blame Nadine for getting tired of it; perhaps " ignore " is a good option.

certainly less painful; some of your other compatriots aren't very good.....

[Kali]

6. so is this a "goodbye cruel DU, maybe"?

pfffttt how many times is it, now?

I am done. Except for ignoring everybody and posting sometimes and telling you dumbasses how dumb you are. Other than that I am out of here. I'm leaving now. Do you hear me? I am not putting up with your kerfunkles any longer! Oh wait, I forgot one more all-caps "press" release. But right after that I am out of here. Did you hear me?

[Rex]

7. It is like you decoded the inner child-speak

and typed it out for us all to see! So would that be a GBCW*?

[bunnies]

12. Perfect response right here.

[oldhippie]

17. I think you've nailed it. nt

nt

[Skraxx]

31. Waiting For Godot.....To Leave.

[sad-cafe]

32. +10000

wish I could rec this post

it is spot on.

[pinboy3niner]

38. Au contraire

"I will continue..." clearly indicates that "I am done" does not mean with DU.

Definitely not a GBCW post.

[delrem]

49. another false account.

[Sissyk]

62. FYI and damn, I copied and pasted on the ipad. Happy Dance!

7:17 PM
Automated Message
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At Thu Sep 12, 2013, 08:09 PM an alert was sent on the following post:

so is this a "goodbye cruel DU, maybe"?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=3657286

REASON FOR ALERT:

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS:

Personal attack

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Thu Sep 12, 2013, 08:17 PM, and the Jury voted 1-5 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: Baloney, no personal attack there. It's an imitation, not the same thing.
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Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: She called The Magistrate to go play with the kiddies today, as if he's not up to her vast intellectual prowess. She gets no sympathy from me. Oh, and she called another friend of mine a Nazi. Pfft. I am not hiding this. Skinner even told her to stop being rude and she argued.
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[bunnies]

84. Jury win right there.

Plonking The Magistrate was something indeed.

[Sissyk]

107. I missed that.

Apparently, I have a lot of reading to do. lol!

BUt, yes. Jury win.

btw, I've always loved your pancaked bunny

[bunnies]

112. awwww.

Thanks. :hug

edit: plonking The Magistrate thread: http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023655317

[trotsky]

90. Brilliant response. n/t

[zappaman]

93. Well played.

[bunnies]

102. Im loving this invisibility cloak.

By the way... I just saw another plonking in a different thread. One more for the party?

[SidDithers]

145. Awesome...

you've got it down perfectly.

But then again, there are lots and lots of examples of posts like the OP to draw from.



Sid

[Uncle Joe]

8. Kicked and recommended.

Thanks for the thread, nadinbrzezinski.

[nadinbrzezinski]

9. You welcome, from a poli sci perspective the internal divisions on this board

are fascinating. They may portend a lurch to the left, since I think a lot of voters are simply fed up with the right wing policies.

It is also important to understand that the grand chessboard is much older than the United States. It's been always about the Spice. It just has taken different forms over the course of history. In some cases it has been literally spice.

[Uncle Joe]

10. You speak the truth nadin.

Peace to you.

[dtom67]

70. careful!

the last time I made a sci-fi reference I was labeled a pro-attack poster by someone who apparently has never seen the old Star Trek episodes from the 60's.

Sorry, taking me a while to post; I am watching Charlie Rose lay the new foundations for an attack on Syria as I write. There is no doubt in my mind that the war profiteers will get their war. If you want accurate news, go to the business press( per Chomsky ). You still have to parse the underlying message, but its more truthful than MSM.

[nadinbrzezinski]

75. Business in the US

And foreign media, Chomsky is correct

[dtom67]

86. have not watched the whole presentation...

but I did hear sen. McCain complaining about congressmen listening to their constituents, in regard to the lack of strike support.

I don't blame ya for blocking some of these knuckleheads- I'm sure i'll get some name-calling from the P-warrior,summerH or proscents in the coming weeks. What pisses me off about it is that a quick perusal of past posts during the campaign should put me squarely in the Obama camp. But even the President should be accountable for his policies. I can see them going after new( post election) accounts that seem to just rabble-rouse, but it seem obvious that many of us are merely dissenting on various issues.

sticks and stones ...

[nadinbrzezinski]

119. Absolutely, the odd thing is that we all voted for the man

but some of us took his words about keeping his feet to the fire like they meant something.

[pinboy3niner]

100. If people aren't familiar with Dune...

...that's their problem.

?1254943363

[mckara]

115. More Recent Discussion of the Great Game

Academic types might enjoy reading the following:

Walberg, Eric. Postmodern Imperialism: Geopolitics and the Great Game

Zbigniew Brzezinski's book offers an outdated analysis of the Great Game that sometimes doesn't apply to events transpiring over the last decade. Walberg's perspectives included smaller players who disproportionally affected the chessboard.

[nadinbrzezinski]

116. Thanks, I offered the one that was widely available

even if dated, and he has not updated it. I remember reading it oh in the 1980s in college, when it was up to date.

Now me, will need to look for Wallberg's piece.

[nadinbrzezinski]

121. In fact, just bought it

[mckara]

125. If You See Other Titles Worth Reading re the Great Game...

Please drop a note to me.

I bought another book from Clarity Press that made a big impression on me:

Westra, Richard. (ed.) Confronting Global Neoliberalism

[nadinbrzezinski]

126. I will, in the recent past my diet

has consisted entirely of local politics, and legal briefs. I NEED A BREAK!

[defacto7]

142. Good post Nadine.

May I recommend a book?

The Orientalist by Tom Reiss. If every American would read and comprehend this history, people would see things from a much broader perspective. It's the biography of a writer born in Baku in 1905. That may give you an little idea of the subject matter. For some, it would be an eye opener.

Unfortunately, some of the commenters here try to hijack threads like this because they know they are on ignore and can get away with it. Not to mention the fact that they are socially and intellectually impaired enough to be unable to make a reasonable argument or to take the time to learn something which could help alleviate their political void. I'm certainly not talking about those who disagree with you, just the flakes. Everyone knows who they are.

[nadinbrzezinski]

144. Thsnks with all these wonderful book recomendations

I am to my budget limit for books for the trimester.



And yes, we all know who they are. Those we all disagree in a gentlemanly way are different, because those lead to all of us learning something from each other.

I agree with you about stunted political development and lack of curiosity by a sadly, more than a few folks. What we have is something very dangerous, the rise of cultish behavior. That is inimical to any democratic society.

[defacto7]

149. The rise of cultist behavior...

It was a precursor to the Bolshevistic revolution, post WW1 Germany, the Cheka, the right, left and Imperial factions of the late 1920s leading up to the takeover by the fascists in 1933. Yeah, cultist behavior is a thing that has always been politically dangerous. But part of being in a political cult is the element of danger placed above reasonable sense and choices.

[pinboy3niner]

11. I think your discussion points would be more effective...

...without reference to other DU members who may disagree, or to your Ignore list.

There has been far too much of that around here lately. I really appreciate posts that manage to contribute to the discussion without making it personal...and you know this comes from a friend.

[nadinbrzezinski]

13. I realize that, but it's gotten to that point

where we truly are inhabiting at least two parallel DU sites.

Hey, it is two for the price of one. I pointed to that because quite frankly I have gotten tired of the personal attacks, so making sure that from now on, that is where they are going to reside. The divisions are not going to be healed. They are going to get much worst before 2014 and don't get me started on 2016. By then this site might be mostly unreadable.

[Pretzel_Warrior]

14. Yes, much, much worst

[Rex]

18. Plus this site will be mostly unreadable by then...hey why wait?

Gosigjodjg osg. DGdaifgjog. GADGdgodgsgosdgosog. Obama.

[pinboy3niner]

22. ...

[zappaman]

24. God, I love that movie!

[wercal]

72. One of the funniest scenes ever on film

[Rex]

30. Who can argue with that!?

[pinboy3niner]

39. Besides 50% of DU members, you mean?

Half of DU's members can argue with ANYTHING.

[Rex]

40. Hehe...

Truedat.

[zappaman]

44. I disagree!

[riqster]

51. No you don't.

Your type really makes me want to puke. You vacuous, toffee-nosed, MALODOROUS PERVERT!!!!

Next time, remember: Room 12A, just along the corridor.

[Isoldeblue]

29. While I agree with the essence of all you've said here,

you have not been entirely innocent of making personal attacks on others, that were not warranted.

The division here is nasty, but it does take two. Plus, boards like this are new to me. So I do get into mindless tussles, on occasion.

I'd also like to ask where is your evidence that Obama himself, made a strategic mistake? For all you know, he may be one of the few who never really wanted war of any sort and never will. There is nothing in his history to point to that.

It's all assumptions on either of our views, isn't it?

Except for the many that do slobber at the thought of war since day one of man. The money is just so damned good, not to mention the power and control to those that foment it. There I am 100% with you and respect much of what you say.

[delrem]

54. evidence? Obama's words.

[Isoldeblue]

60. His words were to make a limited attack

so Assad would bear the consequences of his actions. Which even on that he held back from.
Not a war. There is a difference. Don't put words of war in his mouth. That is false.

Let's not rehash the inane, stupid debate that went on everywhere the past weeks.

[delrem]

64. Oh fer krysake, remember Libya??????? shee, politicians in pursuit of war LIE.

[Isoldeblue]

71. shee ??

I won't try to assume what you mean, with the way your spelling is and saying whatever is a lie about Libya. It's hard to decipher exactly.

Frankly, I don't care, if you're not willing to make an effort to make your point in a literate way to understand......

I do say that most politicians do want war, due to it's profitability.

[delrem]

85. Don't worry, you're in no danger of being informed.

[Isoldeblue]

92. Certainly not from you! No one would....

It's not as if you've tried to sound like you know anything. It seems all you're capable of is how make a short sound bite or only have knowledge from bumper stickers

[Isoldeblue]

33. Some feel entitled to throw

shit at others, because............ fill in the blanks.

Even if the remarks are off the wall and bear no resemblance to the post that's getting shit on, some feel they have the right.

Maybe it's the only way they can feel good about themselves, at others expense. Just maybe...................

[tabasco]

27. A wise man once said

Folks who think they know it all have stopped learning.

I reckon that was awhile back.

[nadinbrzezinski]

28. Yes, and I am not the one claiming I know all

I read and study and continue to learn every day.

On the other hand...

[OilemFirchen]

146. Any chance you could squeeze in a grammar course?

I hear it's all the vogue amongst the press critter class.

[noiretextatique]

34. interesting post, thanks

I know this is not about chemical weapons, and it most certainly has nothing to do with the Syrian people.

I was wondering about all the divisions here. Do you think a part of the divisions are generational?

[nadinbrzezinski]

36. Part of them are generational

I suspect the younger kids, or younger kids at heart, are not happy and far more skeptical.

But some of them are ideological. The Conservadems want our votes, but don't care about us at anything time. I see this as probably a breakdown in some ways.

[noiretextatique]

45. i mentioned the generational gap

because of all the uproar about putin's op-ed. I wonder if younger people really know all the dirty shit America has done around the world...and right here at home. yeah...the conservadems, here and elsewhere, can kiss my ass.

[nadinbrzezinski]

48. Well that essay did go against the foundational myth

but that american exceptionalism line in the POTUS speech was also red meat to both Conservadems and RW folks. They know, the power structure that is, that some of us just don't buy the line.

[delrem]

59. The "american exceptionalism" line,

coupled with suggestions that the US congress only has a decorative role, coupled with interviews where Obama talked about "my army" (technically correct since he's "CIC&quot , points to thinking that's totally unhinged.

PNAC thinking on steroids. So yes, there's something of a split at DU and it isn't likely to ever heal.

[nadinbrzezinski]

61. there was an amazing interview on PBS with a 22 year veteran of the officer corp

I heard it in the car while driving home so no notes possible. This man offered that it has become Washington's army (as in DC) and that while they are the best trained troops ever, it has created a praetorian guard of sorts. He advocated for the draft, because the people are so separated from the war fighters (about 1% of the population) people already forgot about Iraq in some ways, and pushing to war is becoming increasingly easy.

[zeemike]

65. Well I am far more cynical than you

I think it is deliberate because I see so many trying to stir up shit and force others by intimidation to accept things that are not in our best interest as progressives.
And to me that is a red flag of the manipulator...and in my mind their goals is for a GOP win in 14 and 16...by making us just give up.

But don't you worry, I know you and many others will not give up ever.

[nadinbrzezinski]

66. Oh trust me, I share the cynicism

[woo me with science]

108. +100000

DU is heavily propagandized.

And what has happened to DU is happening to other boards across the internet.

[zeemike]

123. I don't doubt it

But DU is the only one I use. And I have seen a pattern in it that strikes me as something with an agenda.

[Th1onein]

41. I think you are absolutely right, Nadine.

I'm in your corner. I will not vote for a Dem, if I have a choice of someone better, no matter the party. I am sick of being lied to.

[nadinbrzezinski]

43. Locally party leaders on both sides

are fearful of a voter revolt

[Th1onein]

46. As they should be. I think one is coming.

It takes a while to filter down to the less politically aware, but there comes a time when there is a "critical mass," and we are fast approaching that time.

[nadinbrzezinski]

50. Well look at my state

a blue state. What is the fastest growing voter block? Nope, not Green party, not Republican, not peace and freedom, not Democrat... decline to state voter.

This worries them to no end.

[Th1onein]

53. Damn, I didn't know that!

[nadinbrzezinski]

55. Here is the latest data on this

http://www.ppic.org/main/publication_show.asp?i=526

But some claim I have no idea of any of this. I cannot wait to see the numbers in 2014 and 15. There is something happening here, and it is not precisely clear.

[Th1onein]

63. Thanks for that. Let me ask you something...

It looks like the Repugs are a dying party. Don't you think that that makes the Dem primary even more important? If the Repugs don't stand a chance, then the only choice is made in the Dem primaries. In the case of the Presidential elections, that would make the electoral college moot, wouldn't it?

[nadinbrzezinski]

67. Well my local primary will be a choice of conservadem

Or other party. I doubt he will be primaries from the left.

As to the trend, the Rs are best case a regional party. The dems will become once again the party of business and we will see another party emerge to the left. That is my view. The dems are going back to roots, again. They do these 180s every 75 years or so.

[starroute]

68. The tripartite world goes way back

Here's a map showing the Egyptian, Hittite, and Assyrian empires somewhere around the 13th century BC. They jockeyed for power, occasionally got into wars with one another, and generally dominated the Middle East. (Notice that what is now Syria was split up among all three.)

The boundaries of empire have spread outward since then -- so that now it's the US, Russia, and China. But the politics haven't changed all that much. It's still the same old game.

[nadinbrzezinski]

69. Yup, the grand chess game is ancient

Why one of the two footnotes

[starroute]

73. You know that and I know that

But I thought a visual aid would be appropriate for people who might have thought you were being rhetorical when you said "goes back millennia."

[nadinbrzezinski]

74. True.

[Phlem]

77. K&R!

I try to not use my ignore list but it's growing fast. A whole bunch more to add just in this thread alone.

And for those that can't quite get out of black and white and see all the shades of grey, It doesn't mean she's going to vote R, FFS!

hang in there bud.

-p

[DeSwiss]

79. K&R'd

- Hang in there nadinbrzezinski. I gets better.....

[Mnemosyne]

136. What DeSwiss said.

There are some true assholes running amok on DU these days. I never had much of an ignore list until the last 10 months. Where did DU go?

Hang in there Nadin!

[watch the sky]

81. whole thread is food for thought AFAIC

and I don't think there's much "binary" about it, including that Putin is right and Obama is wrong. I am on a wait and see basis on Syria. But you've got the quote attribution wrong there, Nadin - Samuel Johnson first said that about nationalism.

[nadinbrzezinski]

88. Thanks and I agree with you, there should should not be any binary

thought in international relations.

[snappyturtle]

91. I don't think the divisions are going to heal either.

When criticism is regarded as hate...I tire of defending
my opinions.

Love this post...lots in it. I am very interested in
economic aspects. I know enough now to realize
how important it is to the U.S. to keep oil traded
on the American dollar. So I have to wonder if it
isn't in the U.S.'s interest to keep the oil flowing
through Syria uninterrupted considering that the
civil war is or can be an impediment?

I learned that in the early 70's the U.S. promised
Saudi Arabia protection of its oil fields in exchange
for keeping oil on the dollar and that we did this
with more OPEC members after the Saudi agreement.
Could this be a reason the President has taken such
interest in Syria of late? This is why I don't think
the Syrian concern of our gov't has anything to do
with, as you pointed out, the 10th gas attack....why
would we be so interested now?

[nadinbrzezinski]

96. As you astutely posted, it is about the spice,

the modern day spice is oil. Look at the two maps for transporting oil. The first one, is for the Russians. the second one is for the Americans.

And I wish our government treated us like adults. I am sure most people can handle it.

[truebluegreen]

94. Thanks, Nadin

I always appreciate your posts and I think you are spot on with your analysis of the Great Game (spice!), this site, and I hope the current parties. We need a new paradigm; I hope this "decline to state" is the beginning of something...

Again, thanks. If there are to be two alternate-universe sites at DU I prefer the analytical, nuanced and thoughtful version.

[nadinbrzezinski]

104. Well once you start using the ignore feature and at least add to it

the worst of the lot, the place becomes far more pleasant.

[truebluegreen]

118. I hear you.

I started using it in earnest when the NSA thing blew up. I have to watch my blood pressure.

[Andy823]

137. Just curious

How many people do you have on your ignore list?

[SlimJimmy]

140. Do you want it alphabetically or by order of importance? (nt)

[Owl]

95. I agree with you. Thank you for this post Nadin.

I've no one on ignore, as I'd rather pass over the worst posts... though it's tempting these days. DU seems to have lost the art of civil exchange and understanding. Not everyone of course, but enough to degrade enjoyable discourse at times.

Please keep writing!

[nadinbrzezinski]

101. You welcome

It is what it is. And it will be harder to continue to not ignore people as 2014 comes along

[pinboy3niner]

97. Props to you for starting an interesting discussion--and humorous subthreads :) nt

[nadinbrzezinski]

98. That is what I try to do, start discussions that are useful

it is just getting much harder. As to the sub threads... I would not know.

[madrchsod]

103. read your latest facebook entry...

two thumbs up!.....

[nadinbrzezinski]

105. Ok, I post there, that's about it.

I did post a link here too, by the way.

[pinboy3niner]

128. You're missing some funny stuff that isn't directed at you. nt

[bunnies]

110. Too bad she wont see them.

All of us having fun have been "plonked". Rex is a Nazi, Im a child, and who knows what the others reasons are. We're all on her "iggy" list.

[pinboy3niner]

117. But I remain in good standing

Go figure...

Actually, as Nadin knows, I've been a critic at times. But I always do so constructively, not mockingly, and as a friend. So she's never thrown me under the bus (knock wood).

[ProSense]

99. "It is the grand chess game, and at this time I would say the Russians have control of the board."

Sure they do.

Putin and Assad are trying save Assad's ass. That is not having an upperhand
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023657282

[azurnoir]

122. promoting your own threads again?

so Pro whatever of you

[ProSense]

131. Yeah, I tend to promote my own opinions.

Still, no one should ever accuse you of not being astute.

[pinboy3niner]

133. Viewing it as a contest for the upper hand isn't helpful with so many lives

(Yes, I'm posting this again.)

What would be REALLY helpful is COOPERATION between the U.S. and Russia in forcing the parties to a peace process that ends the carnage. Not just the threat of CW use, but ALL of the carnage.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

106. In a word pipelines

politicians are pawns in the game.

[nadinbrzezinski]

111. Yuo, kings, Emperors, Caesars, Presidents

it's the same old game. It's just the nature of the spice that changes.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

114. yes

I was hoping for change but.......

[dionysus]

109. IOW: "me me me me me DERP iggy list me me me me"

"i'm a cop\emt\historian\world class fencer\ reporter ( )\ shootout me me me me"

[zappaman]

124. OMIGOD

I forgot about the fencing!

[DevonRex]

129. I had forgotten the fencing!!

[lumpy]

138. LOL I am impressed

[HuckleB]

113. You seem fine with that.

That's odd.

Of course, your post about Putin's BS is odd, too.

Goodness, gracious.

[azurnoir]

120. Thank you Nadin +1000 n/t

[Agnosticsherbet]

127. I wouldn't say won. It was a successful check.

Russia will come out of this recognized as a super power again. The USA recedes a bit in power on the world stage.

Interestingly, the age of a single super power, the Pax Americana (sans the Pax) is over. We will have to wait and see if the US continues to tumble or retrench to 1960 with a new East West conflict, rife with all that wonderful imagery. The main difference will be two capitalist empires rather than capitalism vs faux Marxism.

[nadinbrzezinski]

130. Let me clarify, *this move*

That chessboard is older than all modern nations combined.

[Agnosticsherbet]

132. The players change from time to time

The game remains the same.

[nadinbrzezinski]

135. Yup

and the cause changes from time to time as well, but it is the spice,. it will always be the spice. I wonder if Herbert was thinking about that when he wrote Dune

[Catherina]

151. Thank you Nadin. K&R

Required reading

[Hutzpa]

152. Good job Nadin

looks like you have build up an army of scorners, try and stay classy.

[nadinbrzezinski]

153. Well that army is the DU I no longer see

so staying classy is easy.