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WillyT

(72,631 posts)
Fri Sep 13, 2013, 03:04 PM Sep 2013

Time To Tame The NSA Behemoth Trampling Our Rights - GuardianUK

Time to tame the NSA behemoth trampling our rights
From leaks and Fisa court papers, it's clear the NSA is a bloated spying bureaucracy out of control. It can't be reformed by insiders

Yochai Benkler - theguardian.com
Friday 13 September 2013 08.15 EDT

<snip>

The spate of new NSA disclosures substantially raises the stakes of this debate. We now know that the intelligence establishment systematically undermines oversight by lying to both Congress and the courts. We know that the NSA infiltrates internet standard-setting processes to security protocols that make surveillance harder. We know that the NSA uses persuasion, subterfuge, and legal coercion to distort software and hardware product design by commercial companies.

We have learned that in pursuit of its bureaucratic mission to obtain signals intelligence in a pervasively networked world, the NSA has mounted a systematic campaign against the foundations of American power: constitutional checks and balances, technological leadership, and market entrepreneurship. The NSA scandal is no longer about privacy, or a particular violation of constitutional or legislative obligations. The American body politic is suffering a severe case of auto-immune disease: our defense system is attacking other critical systems of our body.

First, the lying. The National Intelligence University, based in Washington, DC, offers a certificate program called the denial and deception advanced studies program. That's not a farcical sci-fi dystopia; it's a real program about countering denial and deception by other countries. The repeated misrepresentations suggest that the intelligence establishment has come to see its civilian bosses as adversaries to be managed through denial and deception.

We learned months ago that the Director of National Intelligence James Clapper lied under oath to Congress. Now, we know that General Keith Alexander filed a "declaration" (which is like testifying in writing), asserting an interpretation of violations that the court said "strains credulity". The newly-disclosed 2009 opinion includes a whole section entitled "Misrepresentations to the Court", which begins with the sentence:

The government has compounded its noncompliance with the court's orders by repeatedly submitting inaccurate descriptions of the alert list process to the FISC.


General Alexander's claim that the NSA's vast numbers of violations were the consequences of error and incompetence receive derisive attention. But this claim itself was in a court submission intended to exculpate the agency from what would otherwise have been an intentional violation of the court's order. There is absolutely no reason to believe the claims of incompetence and honest error; there is more reason to assume that these are intended to cover up a worse truth: intentional violations.

Second, the subversion...

<snip>

More: http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/sep/13/nsa-behemoth-trampling-rights


16 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Time To Tame The NSA Behemoth Trampling Our Rights - GuardianUK (Original Post) WillyT Sep 2013 OP
thank you, Willy grasswire Sep 2013 #1
You Are Quite Welcome !!! WillyT Sep 2013 #10
Thanks. If only there was a true liberal newspaper - or a liberal political party - in America panzerfaust Sep 2013 #2
HUGE K&R BelgianMadCow Sep 2013 #3
I'm amused that the author still thinks there is a way to "fix" the NSA Blue_Tires Sep 2013 #4
What about countries like Russia, Israel and China that collect intelligence? Cali_Democrat Sep 2013 #6
Clapper lost my trust. mick063 Sep 2013 #8
I'm just suspicious that any reform can be undone Blue_Tires Sep 2013 #12
I sure as hell do mick063 Sep 2013 #7
I agree. bvar22 Sep 2013 #5
Can we have computerized voting? Downwinder Sep 2013 #9
Bingo LondonReign2 Sep 2013 #11
No. bvar22 Sep 2013 #13
Kick !!! WillyT Sep 2013 #14
And Again.. WillyT Sep 2013 #15
The "GuardianUK" has some kind of rights around here?!1 n/t UTUSN Sep 2013 #16
 

panzerfaust

(2,818 posts)
2. Thanks. If only there was a true liberal newspaper - or a liberal political party - in America
Fri Sep 13, 2013, 03:20 PM
Sep 2013

Most of my LBN posts come from the (Manchester) Guardian - as they are often the only MSM source to give a reasonable report on not only UK, and world, but on American events.

Our American media is as much a sham as is our president.

It is so disheartening, that, had it not been for the British Parliament, we would, at this moment, be involved in yet another war of choice in the Middle East.

BelgianMadCow

(5,379 posts)
3. HUGE K&R
Fri Sep 13, 2013, 03:32 PM
Sep 2013

"Claims that secrecy prevents the priesthood from presenting such testable proof appeal to a doctrine of occult infallibility that we cannot afford to accept." Zing!

and then there's this gem:

"The NSA infiltrated the social-professional standard-setting organizations on which the whole internet relies, from National Institute of Standards and Technology to the Internet Engineering Task Force itself."

Excellent review article.

Blue_Tires

(56,134 posts)
4. I'm amused that the author still thinks there is a way to "fix" the NSA
Fri Sep 13, 2013, 03:57 PM
Sep 2013

Anything less than complete dismantlement and abolishment is a waste of time...Of course, no one wants to have THAT conversation...

 

Cali_Democrat

(30,439 posts)
6. What about countries like Russia, Israel and China that collect intelligence?
Fri Sep 13, 2013, 05:17 PM
Sep 2013

Would it be wise for the US to completely dismantle the NSA while these other countries don't disable equivalent agencies?

Wouldn't it be wiser to reform?

 

mick063

(2,424 posts)
8. Clapper lost my trust.
Fri Sep 13, 2013, 05:24 PM
Sep 2013

If the infrastructure for blanket surveillance of innocent US citizens is in place, complete with blanket warrants from courts outside the realm of public influence, they will abuse it. They have demonstrated this.

 

mick063

(2,424 posts)
7. I sure as hell do
Fri Sep 13, 2013, 05:20 PM
Sep 2013

I post this over and over.

Tear the Utah facility down. They can trash military equipment in Afghanistan without blinking an eye. The "cost" of dismantling the facility argument fails in that regard.

Tear it down! Tear it down!


Why are there not more people clamoring for this?

bvar22

(39,909 posts)
5. I agree.
Fri Sep 13, 2013, 05:09 PM
Sep 2013

In fact, its well past time to do this.

Our "Intelligence" Agencies should have been razed to the ground in 2000 after they blew 9-11,
AND certainly after they Stove Piped the Iraq "Intelligence",
but no.

The ONLY chance we had for Cleaning House was in Jan. 2009 when Newly Elected President Obama took office with a Mandate for CHANGE from the American People,
but he left the system, and most of the personnel in place and in power.
And NOW he Circles the Wagons to PROTECT General "LIAR" Clapper.

So WHAT can we really DO to "tame the NSA behemoth" at this point?

Elect Democrats?




Downwinder

(12,869 posts)
9. Can we have computerized voting?
Fri Sep 13, 2013, 05:53 PM
Sep 2013

The NSA has shown that no computer is secure. If not from the NSA how about foreign interests?

bvar22

(39,909 posts)
13. No.
Fri Sep 13, 2013, 06:29 PM
Sep 2013

We've been through ALL this before.

The ONLY safe way to have elections:

*One Day Voting
Polls open 24 hours,
National Holiday,
MUST vote In Person.
Absentee Ballots available,
but not counted unless the election is close.

*Paper Ballots, marked with an indelible pen
deposited in a transparent Ballot Box

*Several "Independent" Exit Polls by non-partisan accounting agencies

*Public Custody and Live Internet Video Feed of the Ballot Boxes until votes are Hand Counted ON LOCATION
with the results posted on the Polling Station Door.

*No Ballot Boxes are moved
public custody and live Internet Surveillance maintained until the election is certified.

If it is important enough,
you will be there.

No.
Mail In voting is NOT secure.





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