Krugman: If republicans really believed Obamacare will be a disaster, they "should be happy to let

[pampango]

Obamacare come into existence, then collapse."

On one side, as Jonathan Cohn points out, inside the right-wing bubble it’s taken as gospel that Obamacare will be an utter, obvious disaster:

If you sincerely believe Obamacare will bankrupt the country, violate personal liberty, raise costs or ruin insurance for most Americans, and generally destroy American health care, then it’s easy to believe that it’s only a matter of time before the rest of the country demands repeal—forcing both Senate Democrats and the president to go along. It’s particularly easy to believe this if you live in the right-wing media bubble, where all of the reports about Obamacare focus on the law’s shortcomings and failures—insurance premiums going up, people losing coverage, part-time workers losing hours, and so on.

The last thing Republicans should want is to let Democrats snatch victory from the jaws of defeat by provoking confrontations over the budget and the debt ceiling before the American people get to experience the nightmare of expanded insurance coverage.

In fact, politically the right is acting as if it fears that Obamacare will, in reality, be highly popular — that once the exchanges and the Medicare expansion go into effect, people will decide that they like the new system, and strongly oppose efforts to reverse course. (This is almost surely the more realistic view.) So the law must be stopped at any cost before it goes into effect, and people learn first-hand that the anti-Obamacare propaganda was false.

So which is it? Are Republicans sure that disaster looms, or are they terrified because they suspect that things will be OK? My guess is, both: clear thinking is not exactly a hallmark of the modern GOP, and may indeed be a positive disqualification for career success.

http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/09/13/obamacare-doublethink/?_r=1&

[WillyT]

1. K & R !!!

[liberal N proud]

2. But they are trying to prevent harn to their constitutes

The health care lobby.

[DJ13]

3. The health care lobby WROTE the damned thing

[zbdent]

21. and the Heritage Foundation endorsed it

and Mitt Romney signed the beta test into law ...

[babylonsister]

4. Now there is a great message to share!

I will, too. Thanks!

[Thinkingabout]

5. If it is true Congress will be insured under the rules of ACA and right now they are sitting

Around under a Cadillac insurance and do not think they should be in a class with the rest of us. Very good point on this post, the GOP is more concerned with the fact Obamacare is an improvement and just may be successful.

[truebluegreen]

6. Republicans hate and fear the visual that government

can make things better. That is why they are fighting so hard, because if the post-Reagan generations actually learn that, it could / will start a revolt against the "government is the problem" mind-set.

[Cryptoad]

14. Most Americans

have figured out that St Ronnie Lied when he said "Government is the Problem"

The Truth is Bad Government is the Problem!!!

The kinda government that the GOP has given us for the last 30 years!

[quadrature]

7. 90% of everybody gets screwed with ACA.

we all know that.
(the fun and easy stuff is behind us,
ahead is all pain and no gain)

Republicans are happy to let it happen.
but they want to look like the good guys
by trying to repeal or delay.

[pnwmom]

9. Who doesn't get screwed?

All the people who remain on their employers policies.
All the people who remain on Medicare and Medicaid.
All the people who newly qualify for Medicaid.
All the people who will qualify for subsidies/tax credits on the exchanges.
All the people who haven't been able to buy individual insurance because of preexisting conditions but can now.
All the people who have been kicked off their old insurance because they developed a costly illness but can now get a policy on the exchange.
All the babies who won't be denied coverage because they were born with a "pre-existing" condition.
All the young people who can stay on their parents' policies till they're 26, whether or not they're in college.
All the people who no longer have to fear annual or lifetime limits.

Compared to the "system" it replaced, very few people will get "screwed" under Obamacare.

[antigop]

11. Who gets screwed?

People whose MAGI is 1 penny more than the FPL, especially pre-Medicare empty nesters who are in their 50s and 60s.

Those who can't afford the deductibles/co-pays/ max out of pocket. It doesn't do you any good to buy insurance you can't use.

.

[pnwmom]

24. Pre-medicare empty nesters will do better than now because most of them

would have had trouble getting individual insurance at any cost, due to preexisting conditions -- and now they will all be fully eligible; and subsidies and tax credits will help most people pay for their premiums. Also, they will be eligible for expanded Medicaid if their income is low enough, which currently is only available to parents with minor children.

[antigop]

25. it doesn't do you any good to have insurance you can't afford to use.

You don't get subsidies if you're MAGI is over the 400% FPL limit.

Older people can be charged three times what a younger person is charged (depending on your state).

Take a look at the premiums for a married couple in their late 50s/early 60s if they don't qualify for subsidies and they make 1 penny over the 400% FPL for a couple. Add onto that the max out of pocket -- they're screwed.

It doesn't matter if they can now get a policy. What matters is if they can afford the premiums and if they can afford to get sick.

I"ve tried to explain this on DU before. I'm sorry if you don't get it.

Have a great evening.

[pnwmom]

27. Older people can be charged up to three times what young people are charged, but that

is much less than their health care costs (and a much smaller difference than pre-ACA). Younger people are actually subsidizing people in the pre-Medicare age group.

[antigop]

28. Post #25 -- re-read it. I'm done. Have a great evening. nt

[pnwmom]

30. Yes, you shouldn't lose all of your subsidy because your income is a penny higher than the limit.

That is the kind of issue that, in a normal Congress, would have been taken care of in a subsequent amendment. Unfortunately, the Republicans are determined not to fix anything about the bill; they'd rather torpedo it.

In the meantime, is there anything you can do to slightly reduce your income so that you aren't just slightly over the limit?

[quadrature]

12. most rates are going up.

my observations SO FAR...
are ...

Rates are going up,
except in a few states ( such as Cal and NY, these states have very high rates),

and except for people who qualify for
the bigger(that average) individual subsidy.

other non-losers are the currently uninsured that
have pre-existing condition

............
losers include the 29 hour bunch,
and others I will write about
some other time

[Schema Thing]

22. No, you are lying.

[pnwmom]

23. There is no evidence for that. Rates were going up before Obamacare,

but they're going up more slowly now. The cost curve has been bent down.

All the data coming in shows that the rates are lower than they were originally expected to be.

What some people don't understand is that average rates pre ACA were for policies that offered much less coverage than under the ACA. So comparing those rates without accounting for the differences in coverage (between the old bare bones policies and those with the Essential Benefits) is comparing apples and oranges.

[Cryptoad]

15. What a crock!

all most everybody that has looked at the ACA exchanges that coming online are impressed by what ACA is going to offer!

[quadrature]

17. who is everybody?

what states are they talking about?

[Cryptoad]

20. Have you looked at any of the Exchanges coming online and what they offer?

If so you would be in include in that "everybody"

I defined that in my post..... geez

CA is leading the pack,,,

cacovered.org

[Grateful for Hope]

8. Krugman always makes sense.

[Cryptoad]

16. Krugman for Chairman!

[Grateful for Hope]

18. ...

[sheshe2]

10. K&R!

[Cryptoad]

13. GOP knows

that ACA will be the last nail in their coffin!

[Dawson Leery]

26. They thought the Clinton 1993 budget would be a disaster too, so they let it go through.

They were wrong. Perhaps they remember that. The same goes with Social Security.

[Hekate]

29. KnR for some Krugman sanity

[gopiscrap]

31. yup we all know it's bullshit on their part

they just want to see Obama fail