General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsWhy is there a crusade against Apple products but not foreign cars?
Want to help American workers and our balance of trade? Buy a UAW car. Automobiles sure cost a lot more and provide more jobs than phones. Hardly any phones are made in the USA but we have a huge trade imbalance because of foreign cars. The subcompact Chevy Sonic is made in Michigan and all it's competitors like the Yaris, Fit, Accent, Rio, Mazda2 are made in Asia but damn those phones!
= new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight:
NoneDon't highlight anything
5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Gravitycollapse
(8,155 posts)Travis_0004
(5,417 posts)My Toyota was built in Kentucky. My Ford was built in Mexico.
So which car did I support American workers more: The Toyota.
coldmountain
(802 posts)What's the difference between between Toyota doing the expensive engineering in Japan and using cheap Kentucky labor vs Apple having the high paying jobs in California and using cheap Chinese labor?
It's hypocrisy and/or ignorance to support Toyota but diss Apple
Gravitycollapse
(8,155 posts)This is especially the case with Ford and Chevy. So if you're complaining about where the designs are sourced, that becomes yet another variable that must be accounted for separately.
coldmountain
(802 posts)Travis_0004
(5,417 posts)I care about the guy on the assembly line, a lot more that I care about a rich CEO. So I'm happy my toyota was built in America. If a bit of the extra profits went to a rich CEO in Japan, I guess I can live with that.
Meanwhile my Ford was built in America. The only American getting rich of me buying a car is the CEO, and I don't really give a crap about him, I'm just pointing out that is not as simple as American=good, foreign=bad.
Also, I didn't diss apple. I don't own an Iphone, but I do own an andriod, and its probably made in China, but HTC slips under the radar since they are smaller than apple.
coldmountain
(802 posts)Toyota doesn't create jobs, it's steals jobs and destroys the high paying white collar and R&D jobs that should have stayed here in America,
Travis_0004
(5,417 posts)If that is the case, why didn't ford, GM, chevy build a plant in Kentucky before Toyota? They could have built in kentucky (or any US state) instead of building the plants in Mexico. Also, research and development. I'm not saying Toyota is perfect, but I still stand by my comment that a US built toyota is better than a Mexico built ford.
coldmountain
(802 posts)Maybe if Americans were loyal to their home team car companies like the Japanese consumers are Ford wouldn't have left Atlanta and went to Mexico. They're going to sell around 15 million cars or so in the USA, the question is where they get built and designed.
If you want the Japanese doing our thinking for us and designing our cars and getting the big bucks be an economic traitor and buy into the globalist lies that's killing our middleclass or you can be an economic patriot and do like the Japanese and support the home team.
BTW, FORD AND GM DO HAVE PLANTS IN KENTUCKY AT BOWLING GREEN FOR CORVETTES AND FORD TRUCKS IN LOUISVILLE!
MEXICO AND CANADA BUY A LOT OF AMERICAN CARS UNLIKE OUR JAPANESE FRENEMIES WHO HAVE A DE FACTO CLOSED MARKET AND BUY HARDLY ANY AMERICAN CARS OR KOREAN CARS OR ANYONE ELSES CARS!
FORD FUSION IS HIGHLY RATED AGAINST CAMRY AND TOYOTA"S TUNDRA TRUCK IS RATED FAR LOWER THAN ALL AMERICAN FULLSIZE TRUCKS CONSUMER REPORTS SAYS THE NEW IMPALA IS THE BEST SEDAN THEY EVER TESTED EVEN BETTER THAN LEXUS!
http://usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/cars-trucks/rankings/trucks/
http://usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/cars-trucks/rankings/cars/
http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/magazine/2013/09/chevrolet-impala-review/index.htm
d_r
(6,908 posts)so I can't begrudge it. I try to be thankful for it. But in the back of my mind I think "we are Japan's Mexico."
coldmountain
(802 posts)Last edited Thu Sep 19, 2013, 01:27 AM - Edit history (1)
Partial list of 100% foreign cars
Toyotas made in Japan are every Prius, Yaris, Scion, 4runner and all Lexus models
All Mazdas are now made in Japan
Honda Fit is made in Japan as are most Acuras
Almost all Infinitis are made in Japan
Kia Rio is made in South Korea
Hyundai Accent, Veloster, Genesis, Azera are made in South Korea
Gravitycollapse
(8,155 posts)All of those are manufactured on American soil and that is only the Honda Motor Company.
So, you know, many choices exist in purchasing a "foreign" car made in the US.
coldmountain
(802 posts)Furthermore all these transplant factories are anti-union and anti-minority
Gravitycollapse
(8,155 posts)It becomes an incoherent mess otherwise.
On the issue of 30% of cars coming from outside the US, that has nothing to do with my argument. I am specifically saying that if one wants to, he or she can purchase a "foreign" car made in the US.
On the issue of anti-unionism, that is also a completely different subject. If the plants are anti-union, I fully support boycotting them.
The same goes for any sort of racism.
However, you are in essence, either willingly or by mistake, furthering nationalist sentiment in order to present a case, I guess, for union jobs. That doesn't make any sense. If you have an issue with anti-unionism at a plant, address that. Don't just come out saying all foreign car companies are a blight on the US.
A HERETIC I AM
(24,841 posts)Nissan manufactures at least one Infiniti product at their assembly plant in Smyrna, TN.
http://www.nissanusa.com/about/corporate-info
Go Vols
(5,902 posts)They make these things 30 miles from me and I say fuck them and all non UAW made rides.
Tariffs should be levied on such shit.
A HERETIC I AM
(24,841 posts)I live in Florida, I am a car hauler and if I want to be a union car hauler again, I would have to move to either Texas, KY or further north.
The thing is, the UAW, (and the Teamsters, for that matter) for whatever reason, have done a piss poor job of marketing themselves in the last few decades. Not too long ago there was a vote at the Mercedes Benz plant in Vance, AL as to whether to join the union or not.
The vote was apparently close - like 46 to 54% against, but still, it goes to show you that HALF of the people working in that plant voted against becoming United Auto Workers.
Why?
The same thing has happened at Smyrna as well as Georgetown over the years.
KamaAina
(78,249 posts)but they're hybrid versions of the regular models, not a separate model like the Prius. So they lose that snob appeal.
Barack_America
(28,876 posts)Besides the fact that few, if any, of these plants offer union jobs.
Gravitycollapse
(8,155 posts)Honda doesn't just airfreight bags of money back to Japan and throw them in a room. The money is diffused along the way.
If it is a matter of union jobs, then it is a matter of union jobs and not the fact that a car is produced by a foreign company.
coldmountain
(802 posts)Check out what happens to Honda's domestic percentage when management, engineering, design, etc are factored in :http://kogodnow.com/autoindex/
Also Honda has a history of racism and sexism and to this day they have no high ranking minority or female executives.
Gravitycollapse
(8,155 posts)coldmountain
(802 posts)Honda ordered to pay out in racism lawsuit
Kalmesh Shah moved to England from India in 2004, and started working for Honda six months after he arrived. Although he was put on a number of production lines without training, that wasn't the real problem. The real issue was that his supervisor abused him, calling him an "expletive" Indian, and he was bullied and refused toilet breaks. Over the two years of his employment, his mental and physical health suffered, and when he finally quit, he took his complaints to a tribunal. When the tribunal began to investigate, managers falsified documents to cover up the fact that Kalmesh wasn't trained.
http://www.autoblog.com/2008/02/15/honda-ordered-to-pay-out-in-racism-lawsuit/
WHERE ARE THE HIGH RANKING AFRICAN AMERICAN AND WOMEN EXECUTIVES AT HONDA AND TOYOTA?
Where's Honda's answer to Ed Wellborn or Ralph Gilles?
I come back with more tomorrow.
Gravitycollapse
(8,155 posts)As an entire company.
"WHERE ARE THE HIGH RANKING AFRICAN AMERICAN AND WOMEN EXECUTIVES AT HONDA AND TOYOTA?"
If you are speaking of the corporate organization within Japan, the Japanese population is not particularly ethnically or racially diverse. So one should not expect a terrible amount of diversity in the company hierarchy.
As far as women, I have posted in the past how only 15 in 11,000 Fortune 500 CEOs are women. That comes out to just .1364%. Only about 13% of all company executives are women. So there is no diverse measure against which we can condemn Honda.
If you want to boycott them for not being diverse, you will need to add literally thousands of more companies to the black list.
coldmountain
(802 posts)Gravitycollapse
(8,155 posts)That's what I'm getting from your argument.
American executive boards are not diverse. They are almost completely white-washed.
coldmountain
(802 posts)Detroit has had dozens of women executives. Where's Honda's?
Gravitycollapse
(8,155 posts)There are eight Asian CEOs of Fortune 500 companies, accounting for 1.6 percent of all Fortune 500 CEOs.
There are eight Latino CEOs of Fortune 500 companies, accounting for 1.6 percent of all Fortune 500 CEOs
There are 21 women CEOs of Fortune 500 companies, accounting for 4.2 percent of all Fortune 500 CEOs
The female statistic is greater than the stats I got from my text. Which may represent an evolution in selection. Either way, it's still EXTREMELY low relative to population percentage.
Romulox
(25,960 posts)Why change the subject, hmmm? 
telclaven
(235 posts)You do realize your talking about BLOODY ENGLAND right?!
Jeebuz, this is why I hate hyphenated Americanisms. People get stupid.
Romulox
(25,960 posts)
frylock
(34,825 posts)When the Tuesday showdown on Capitol Hill was over, Apple CEO Tim Cook and an often critical Senate panel found common ground on the need for, if not the approach to reforming tax law for corporations.
Cook addressed a report by the Senate Subcommitte on Investigations that found Apple paid no U.S. or state taxes, and only minimal foreign taxes, on billions of dollars in profits on revenues collected and held overseas in the past four years.
http://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/local/Apples-Untaxed-Overseas-Profits-Fuel-Calls-for-Corporate-Tax-Reform--208434251.html
darkangel218
(13,985 posts)NYC_SKP
(68,644 posts)And there is then an element of jealousy, a feeling that they're for the elite.
Business people who depend on computers and phones as tools of their work often chose Apple products for their stability, performance, and customer service.
I use both PC and Apple products and my experience with both has led me to select Apple products exclusively, they save money in the long run, and time.
But a few, not many, are jealous and associate them with latte-sipping elitists.
coldmountain
(802 posts)An iPhone or other Apple products are affordable luxuries compared to many of these foreign cars.
NYC_SKP
(68,644 posts)I suppose cars are, too. In any event, I need dependable tools.
I have a Prius now because stupid ass Detroit was too busy building trucks and SUVs and made a choice NOT to offer a hybrid.
Thankfully, they've finally caught on and offer quite a few good choices, so when my 2007 Prius takes a crap, I might have to get a Ford Hybrid or EV, I wish they'd offer a smaller version of a Chevy Volt.
The Prius is at 140,000 and I'm not sure how much longer it'll last.
liberal_at_heart
(12,081 posts)use Apple products. Their business practices suck and I can't wait until a competitor knocks them off their pedestal but for now my family continues to put up with Apple.
Go Vols
(5,902 posts)who was capable of completely operating a smart phone.
Apple is cool,or hip,or .....
NYC_SKP
(68,644 posts)Hardly ever have needed to refer to help in figuring out how to use features.
But still, there are features I probably don't know that I have or how to use them.
liberal_at_heart
(12,081 posts)has a friend at the School for the Blind who teaches all the blind students how use the iPhone because it is such a great tool for the blind.
defacto7
(14,159 posts)Jealousy? That's elitist talk. It's the kind of language that is meant to cause envy and create followers by shame.
"Business people who depend on computers and phones as tools of their work often chose Apple products for their stability, performance, and customer service."
Says who? Most businesses are stuck in MS land because they have become too dependent on it. Those who have paid the price to change are switching for another form of technological slavery rather than understanding the simplicity of the machine; they continue to be incapable of defending themselves from the Internet-corporate woobie blanket.
"I use both PC and Apple products and my experience with both has led me to select Apple products exclusively"
That's fine. Your choice.
"they save money in the long run, and time"
Not in a million years. Neither are true. Maybe it's your experience, but your experience simply follows the herd mentality, or you have something to sell.
And for the last comment, see my first comment.
If you like being socially acceptable to a specific crowd,
if you are bothered by an extra bit of education that would change your view of technology for life,
if you would rather buy and discard than be ecologically sound,
if you would rather be used than be in control,
if you would rather support steeling other people's work and property,
If you would like to encourage using free technology and re-selling it as the work of Apple genius,
if you would like to use old software taken from free sources and sold as an Apple innovation,
if you support keeping Billions of dollars in Apple profit over seas and skirting the taxes that support America and it's citizens,
Then stay with Apple. That's where you belong.
I am a network tech and a systems operator... as a pastime, almost 40 years. I run a couple of networks Microsoft and Open source, and many servers. I began my education of computers with Apple hardware during the late 70's and 80's starting with the 6502 chip. Apple died in about 1989. What you use is Apple only in name. The rest is repackaging of originally free content.
Be happy with your choices. I am happy to be free of Apple, Microsoft and their contempt for human intellect.
NYC_SKP
(68,644 posts)"Be happy with your choices. I am happy to be free of Apple, Microsoft and their contempt for human intellect. "
And in line with this thread, someday when I get time and money I'm going to build my own freaking car, too.
defacto7
(14,159 posts)As for computers, operating systems, software, low cost and freedom from servitude, there are vastly better and more simple alternatives to M$ and Apple. But you knew that.
JI7
(93,110 posts)car would actually benefit american workers more.
coldmountain
(802 posts)$12 Billion/Month Auto Trade Deficit Ignored By Media
Finally, here is Dr. Charles McMillion writing at Manufacturing and Technology News the other day, “Motor City Dies, But The Big Wheels Keep On Turning“: (emphasis added, for emphasis) (Please click through and read the whole thing. It’s important.)
Ignored by the media, the U.S. Commerce Department routinely records $12 billion monthly trade losses for the country’s auto industry. There was no reporting earlier this year when it was officially noted that auto trade losses — including trucks and parts — rose last year to an annual world record of $146.9 billion. Since 2000, auto industry trade losses total $1.7 trillion as low-wage or heavily subsidized foreign-produced imports continue to devastate highly productive American jobs and wages, slash tax revenues and public services, and undermine U.S. financial independence requiring massive domestic as well as foreign borrowing. Especially in America’s Motor City, families, businesses and communities have been devastated. Now, with Detroit’s bankruptcy, more dreams and promises are being broken and debts unpaid.
http://ourfuture.org/20130814/blame-the-auto-trade-deficit-not-detroits-workers-2
Populist_Prole
(5,364 posts)That's that much money taken out of circulation of our economy; that is, what would have been money in the hands of people to drive the economy from the bottom up.
coldmountain
(802 posts)Hyundai had to withdraw from Japan because Japanese wouldn't buy Korean cars. Some blame racism.
Hyundai Withdraws from Japan, To Keep Commercial Fleet
Unbelievable news from one of the most important players in the global automotive industry, South Korean carmaker Hyundai has announced it will pull out from the Japanese passenger car market.
Despite being in constant growth on a global level and registering one of the best results among international carmakers in a difficult recession year like this one, Hyundai has announced on December 1 that all of its Japanese car dealers will cease marketing in the aforementioned country.
The news come from company spokesman Oles Gadacz, via a report from AutoNews.com. With the South Korean auto firm doing so well in other geographic areas and in these uncertain economic times, when other car manufacturers struggle to survive, this decision may appear rather shocking, but the fact is Hyundai returned discouraging sales results in Japan since it entered the market 8 years ago.
http://www.autoevolution.com/news/hyundai-withdrawals-from-japan-to-keep-commercial-fleet-13929.html
Populist_Prole
(5,364 posts)The way I see it, Japan ( or other mercantilist nations ) is basically saying "Why should we drop a trade system that works so well for us...and adopt one that works so poorly for the US?" ( or other trade deficit running nations )
LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)" Japanese won't buy Korean cars but dumbass Americans shoot our economy in the ass with Japanese cars..."
I suppose that's one of the advantages of prioritizing imaginary red and blue lines on a map over actual people... we can tell ourselves that the people inside the lines are more important, more worthy, and more deserving, and the people outside the imaginary lines are just, well... statistics I guess.
Odd the reliance we humans place on the imaginary.
coldmountain
(802 posts)BlueStreak
(8,377 posts)It is not just apple. There are now basically two phone platforms and 3 or 4 major wireless networks (depending on how you count them). Americans are getting screwed royally by all involved. The only party in this that isn't really predatory is Google (relative to all the other bad actors).
It is a lot different in the car business. There is plenty of competition and the consumer gets a great product at a fair price. And there simply haven't been any reports of Ford and GM playing all sorts of scammy games to hide profits from taxation here in the US.
I do agree that Americans should buy American whenever that is a practical option, and it definitely is these days with cars.
cherokeeprogressive
(24,853 posts)JI7
(93,110 posts)cherokeeprogressive
(24,853 posts)nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)And a used Jeep to take us where the hybrid can't.
As to what NYC skip said, just replaced my Macbook, just nine years old, for a new MacBook Pro. I expect to use it for at least six years. And trust me, it is intense. In my experience windows products (the gaming machine) require a lot more TLC.
defacto7
(14,159 posts)I still get 50 + MPG on the highway with over 100,000 mi. I built a grid charger for it and rewired the battery system which has extended it's mileage and life years beyond when they told me I needed to spend $3000 for a new one. I also have a 1998 Jeep. Great car.
I plan to keep them both for a few more years... then buy a Tesla. Hoping hoping... saving, saving... dreaming dreaming.
My conclusion: I will never buy another Honda. I will never own another Apple product.
But my best to you and your choices.
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)When it is time to change the car, getting something else.
As to the Apple, they have lasted well beyond. And that MacBook we just changed managed to edit complex sound at eight years. We were impressed, even if the hamster was tired.
My choice of machines is what they are for. The gaming machine is a win device.
My smartphone is a cheap android
The jeep, well, the only issue it has is the smoke after a wild fire. But that is a job hazard.
flvegan
(65,661 posts)Gravitycollapse
(8,155 posts)coldmountain
(802 posts)Gravitycollapse
(8,155 posts)Weren't you complaining about international design upthread?
coldmountain
(802 posts)The Sonic is also union built which no Honda is.
Gravitycollapse
(8,155 posts)After all, the Sonic is not a wholly American venture. It is designed by Germans and Italians.
coldmountain
(802 posts)The Honda Civic is only is only 66%
http://kogodnow.com/autoindex/
Gravitycollapse
(8,155 posts)
So I take this as recognition that you have reneged on your previous statements about foreign design.
coldmountain
(802 posts)I would rather Apple gets business than Samsung. Motorola X should be supported.
I would rather see union American companies get production rather than non union foreign based companies and especially 100% foreign cars like Prius, Mazda and Honda Fit.
I know all this goes over your head. You just want to defend JapanInc.
There is no American designed very small car so the Sonic is the best choice as it's UAW made by an American company.
Mediocre cars like Camry abd Maxima can easily be replaced by Consumer Reports highly rated Chevy Impala.
American fullsize trucks easily are better than Toyota Tundra, Honda Ridgeline and Nissan Titan, You have to hate America to buy one of these Japanese trucks
Gravitycollapse
(8,155 posts)Romulox
(25,960 posts)flvegan
(65,661 posts)Or shut up.
And back that pile of shit out to around 2000. Go!
coldmountain
(802 posts)
Art_from_Ark
(27,247 posts)Suzuki has announced that after a few tweaks, the fifth generation of its popular "Wagon R" subcompact can now get 30 kilometers per liter (68 miles per gallon). And that's on Japanese roads. It would probably be higher in the US.
http://www.suzuki.co.jp/release/a/2013/0716a/
hughee99
(16,113 posts)are rooted in where they're produced or who makes them. That just provides those who already don't like Apple a reason to criticize them.
Apple should be compared to their peers for life span and reliablilty.
How many cell phones are made in the usa? None.
The first one will be the moto x, and its not available yet.
frylock
(34,825 posts)that being said, I do own a gen4 ipad. however, my preference for phones is android.
madokie
(51,076 posts)Where as with apple the story is quite different, or what I've read that is.
I personally don't buy either, a foreign car or an apple product
coldmountain
(802 posts)The Dark Side of the Toyota Prius
he National Labor Committee (NLC), a New York-based human rights group, has been investigating working conditions at Toyota Motor Corp., and the labor used to produce its best-selling Prius hybrid cars.
In its 65-page report released in June, NLC includes first-hand testimony of factory conditions in “Toyota City,” outside of Nagoya, Japan – less than 200 miles southwest of Tokyo – where the largest auto company in the world employs some 70,000 people.
The report alleges that Toyota exploits guest workers, mostly shipped in from China and Vietnam. According to the NLC, these workers are “stripped of their passports and often forced to work – including at subcontract plants supplying Toyota – 16 hours a day, seven days a week, while being paid less than half the legal minimum wage.” Workers are forced to live in company dormitories and deported for complaining about poor treatment, the report finds.
nthesetimes.com/article/3796/the_dark_side_of_the_toyota_prius
coldmountain
(802 posts)Japanese court rules Toyota employee died from too much work
Thirty-year-old Kenichi Uchino worked 60 hours a week for five months for Toyota in Japan, and then worked 70 hours a week for a month -- and then he died. His wife, Hiroko, filed for workman's compensation benefits after the death of her husband, and her claim was denied. The Labor Ministry said the death didn't come from overwork.
A court in Nagoya, though, had a different opinion, and has ordered the Ministry of Labor to pay benefits. His work schedule sounds brutal, although we know of people who put in the same kind of hours in the US. However, unlike in America, it's common practice in Japan not to pay for overtime. We don't know if that was the case here, but regardless of whether he was being paid, the operative word for any employee putting in those kinds of hours should be: help.
http://www.autoblog.com/2007/11/30/japanese-court-rules-toyota-employee-died-from-too-much-work/
Romulox
(25,960 posts)
cui bono
(19,926 posts)With cell phones they keep patenting things that they did not invent or implement first, things that other phones already have on them and have had for years sometimes, just so they can file a lawsuit against the other phone manufacturer and get an injunction for any model phone that uses the function. They even filed a lawsuit about the design of the Galaxy Tab I believe, just because it was rectangular and had rounded corners. I mean really. What about TVs? They are all basically the same shape, computer monitors... etc. The only reason for their lawsuits is to be a pain in the ass and try to win on a technicality, that is a crazy technicality. If there were better people in the patent offices they would never grant those lame patents for things that are already in use.
Jobs stated once that he intended to crush Google, he made it a mission of his, and Apple keeps it up. And that's why I don't like Apple. That and they're closed environment. They want to force you to use iEverything. Screw that. And they are way overpriced. I got my laptop for half the price of the comparable specs for a MacBook Pro, and in fact, I didn't see them offering a Blu-Ray writer in the MBP but I got on in my Toshiba laptop.
I use a desktop MacPro, but when it dies I think I'll get a PC desktop. I need it for editing work, but I prefer Avid over FCP anyway so I might as well save a lot of money and build a better pc rig.
That's my 2 cents on Apple
Humanist_Activist
(7,670 posts)its a Mitsubishi Eclipse.
Savannahmann
(3,891 posts)In 2005 I was in the market for a mini-van. I looked at several makes including the so called domestics. The Ford was going to cost roughly twice as much as a Kia. Now I understand getting two for the price of one, but I'm a little fuzzy on the wisdom of getting one for the price of two. Additionally the Kia had a much better warranty.
If it had been close, I might have gotten the Ford. But when we are taking about years of payments for a car that cost nearly $40k then we have to seriously consider value for the money. The Ford was no safer, no more reliable, and no more economical to operate.
Now the next question. Why are the only union jobs we care about centered around the Big 3? For my Kia, the Pilot that gided the ship to the dock, the tugboat crew, the dockworkers, the truckers, and the railroad workers were all Union. But according to you we should slash those union jobs in favor of a product that is significantly more expensive without any superiority.
GM pick up trucks have shown an increase in reliability, but then again they are now being made in Mexico. Ford shut down a plant in Atlanta, and Kia opened one in Georgia. They manufacture many of the parts on site as well.
For every American Car you find a superior foreign product for roughly the same money or less in many cases. If you want a cheap runabout there are dozens. Ford regularly talks about ending the Ranger pick up line. But that is one of their more reliable and higher rated vehicles. Of course it's built by Mazda so it should be reliable.
I bought a Toyota built in Indiana which is domestic providing that we haven't broken off diplomatic relations.
The most American built car is the Toyota Avalon at 85% Domestic parts. http://www.cars.com/go/advice/Story.jsp?section=top&subject=ami&story=amMade0712
Honda Crosstour: 80 percent DPC, built in East Liberty, Ohio
Ford Expedition/Lincoln Navigator: 80 percent DPC, built in Louisville, Ky.
Buick Enclave/Chevrolet Traverse/GMC Acadia: 76 percent DPC, built in Lansing, Mich.
Jeep Liberty: 76 percent DPC, built in Toledo, Ohio
Chevrolet Corvette: 75 percent DPC, built in Bowling Green, Ky.
Toyota Sequoia: 75 percent DPC, built in Princeton, Ind.
Honda Pilot: 75 percent DPC, built in Lincoln, Ala.
coldmountain
(802 posts)Ranger is made by Ford and not Mazda and has already been discontinued.
Savannahmann
(3,891 posts)Then try this site. http://abcnews.go.com/WN/MadeInAmerica/page/made-america-car-american-made-13795239 I didn't link to that one because you have to select make and model yourself, and I considered that too much work for you.
Perhaps that is too much information for you, or an unapproved site as well. Here is a hint, the Kia Sorento which is built in Georgia, I mentioned it earlier, is made from 60% American made parts. Roughly the same as the Ford F-Series trucks.
You ignored my questions about the other unions. Why do you want them to go jobless and hungry and all of that? Don't they get good jobs and wages working to transport the cars that are imported? Why should I take a big old dump on the Longshoremen because you are operating under the mistaken impression that the "Big 3" Are all 100% American Made?
BTW, a lot of that "American Made" is parts from Mexico and Canada under NAFTA. Take GM for a minute and look at the list of closed or sold facilities. Since you cling to your buy American nonsense in the face of the facts that A) There are no American Made Cars anymore, and B) The so called foreign brands are often more American made than the American Brands, for example the Toyota Sienna Van is 75% American. Why, the Toyota is more American Made than the Ford Pick Up trucks. Only 45% of the Chevrolet Cruze is American Made. So how am I helping the United States out and supporting the people of the United States by buying a car that is majority foreign made? Other than rubbing a salve on my ignorance I mean.
If you knew anything about the issue, it might be instructive and informative to discuss it with you.
coldmountain
(802 posts)You keep quoting old inaccurate information. The Ranger was never made by Mazda. In fact the last version of the Mazda B-series truck was a rebadged Ford Ranger made by Ford in Ford factories, Mazda also sold a rebadged Ford Escape as the Mazda Tribute. The reason Ford allowed this was because some Americans stupidly think that if has a Japanese nameplate it must be better
http://www.thecarconnection.com/news/1039871_breakup-alert-mazda-ford-end-shared-vehicle-development
Even cars.com which is a shill for the foreign car companies now has the F150 as tops in American content. The cars.com survey doesn't include white collar jobs, engineeering design, subcontractors and other variables,
http://www.cars.com/go/about/us.jsp?section=P&content=rel&date=20130625
Savannahmann
(3,891 posts)Absolutely conceding the point.
Since that was the only point you scored, I can understand you running back to it constantly.
The redesigned Ford Pick ups may be starting with 75% of their parts made in America, but that is not the history we are talking about. Now, they barely beat out several "foreign brands" by the skin of their teeth. Notice I say several foreign brands. You utterly ignored the Chevrolet Cruze that is more foreign than domestic. So how am I serving the nation by buying one of those? And what nation would I be serving?
10% of the Ford Fiesta is American made. I suppose we did have to throw the plastic dashboard at the local economy as a nod right?
20% of the Ford Fusion is built in America. Go USA. 
40% of the Chevrolet Volt is built in the USA, and the President took a tour of the plant to celebrate American Ingenuity.
Yet again, the points that make my side look good. Many so called foreign cars are made in the United States using domestically sourced components. Some even surpass the American Brands.
The Unions in question make up a small portion of the Union Workforce in the nation, and are the only ones who have shills out ranting that we need to support them over all others. The ILA isn't out there screaming that we need to buy cars that go through their ports, but I digress.
Finally, another point you ignored and must go to me is the reliability and quality issues. The value for money point is again given to me.
That leaves one point for you. That the Ford Ranger isn't a Mazda anymore. You win that point.
So that's three unanswered points to me, and one unanswered point to you. Finally let's close this down before you start throwing inanities at the problem. White Collar Jobs. Those same white collar jobs exist in the Foreign Car plants too. There are plant managers at the factory that makes the BMW in South Carolina (The X-5 uses 30% American parts beating the Ford Fusion). You could argue that they are foreigners. Foreigners who buy houses on the local economy, buy groceries on the local economy, buy clothing from stores on the local economy, and pay taxes on the local economy. I don't care if the guy was born in Germany, or Gibraltar. They are participating in the local economy, which you ask the rest of us not to do because they don't have a traditionally American name on the plant.
Kia may have Korean Executives in their plant in Georgia, but again it's not like they commute to Seoul every night. They go home, eat food purchased here, pay taxes here, and participate in the American Dream. Unless of course you're the first Democrat since WW II to be against immigration.
You are utterly disproven, discredited, and dismissed. You scored one point, one out of the entire debate. You eschewed the first link I provided, and then ran to the same source to prove a point later, a point that was irrelevant. Because even in your article, there were as many "Foreign" makes and models that were majority Domestically made as there were Domestic brands.
You may have an overall point to make, but much like some white supremacist neighbors I had once, that point is not in the same timezone. Those idiots tried to chastise me about my Toyota, and I pointed out that it was more American than their car was. Then they told me they really preferred American Muscle, like the Ford Mustang. Which I told them had almost half it's stuff made in Mexico including but not limited to the Exhaust system.
American Made is a lie in the modern world. Even American Made often includes parts made under NAFTA in Canada.
The ILA appreciates your support of their efforts and hard work to put food on the table and take care of families.
coldmountain
(802 posts)The survey you quote doesn't count white collar workers, engineering, subcontractors, etc and even counts Canadian production as domestic. Yoy survey is tweaked to make the Japanese look good because cars.com is basically a vendor for Toyota and Honda.
AAPC Pushes Back Against Cars.Com Toyota Camry Content Claim
WASHINGTON — The Toyota Camry doesn’t represent the “most American” car on the market as claimed by Cars.com. That’s the contention of the American Automotive Policy Council, a group representing Chrysler, Ford and GM and headed by Matt Blunt, former governor of Missouri.
Made in America
On Monday, Cars.com issued its third annual “American-Made Index” where it claimed that the Toyota Camry, which is made at two manufacturing plants in the United States, has a higher amount of domestic content than any model produced by the Big Three. Auto Trends Magazine reported this news on Tuesday, explaining how Cars.com arrived at its results. Immediately behind the Camry was the Honda Accord followed by the Chevrolet Malibu, the highest ranking model in terms of domestic content according to the survey.
The AAPC argues that Cars.com findings are flawed and takes issue with the website’s methodology for determining how “American” a car is. Said Blunt, “The simple facts are: Three of the 16 major automakers doing business in the U.S. – Chrysler, Ford and GM – produce more than half the cars assembled here, use twice as many U.S. parts (per vehicle) than their competitors, and employ two-thirds of America’s autoworkers.”
Blunt compared the Ford Explorer to the Toyota Camry to illustrate his point saying, “If a Ford Explorer (1) is made in the U.S.; (2) uses more U.S. parts than a Camry; and is built by a company that (3) produces nearly twice as many vehicles here as Toyota, (4) employs more than twice as many Americans as Toyota, and (5) conducts billions more in U.S. R&D each year than Toyota, how does Camry score higher?”
http://www.autotrends.org/2011/06/29/aapc-pushes-back-against-cars-com-toyota-camry-content-claim/
Savannahmann
(3,891 posts)So let me get this straight. You're using a piece from a group that you pronounce is a front group funded by the Big 3 to claim that only they are the American made right?
Seriously? That's like using statistics from Colt Firearms to announce that there is no gun violence.
Or a group funded by Ann Coulter to pronounce that the media is Liberal.
Or a group funded by the Koch Brothers to proclaim that money in politics is a good thing.
Come on man, if you have nothing but propaganda pieces, give it up already.
coldmountain
(802 posts)But you want to use a cars.com survey who are basically vendors for Honda and Toyota
You're doing exactly what you accuse me of, not using an independent statistics. The car company association was only pointing out the flaws which are obvious. The cars,com survey doesn't include vital variables.
It's obvious you're on the side of the Japanese trade predators if you don't want to include itesm such as R&D, subcontractors, white collar workers,, etc. You just want the surrvey tilted toward ths Japanese
Savannahmann
(3,891 posts)Oh well, perhaps they don't know as well as the propaganda arm of the big 3 do.
Now you bring racism into it. I have mentioned the other unions that are involved in the trade, and you ignore them. Finally, after how many messages we get to the core of your argument.
I mentioned executives at the plant, and even for your sake stipulated that they may be foreign born. Yet, I pointed out the advantage to the local economies of them living/working there. The example I used was the Kia plant in Georgia, and pointed out that they were not commuting to South Korea every night. You ignored them too.
So we get to your final problem, finally. You don't like that the companies are Japanese because of some sort of Racist meme that I can only guess at.
So again, the points that have gone to me. Quality of the product. Accepted Mainstream Media conclusions via the ABC news website. Affect on many other Unions that you hope to have starving and homeless. Decimation of the "American made" argument regarding several models of American Cars including the Ford Fiesta, Chevrolet Volt, and Chevrolet Cruze.
I could go on, but as I learned when discussing the issue with the White Supremacists who used to be my neighbors. Facts, logic, and truth don't matter to those who's opinions are tainted by racism.
You buy the "American Made" car if you want. I'm going to buy the car that has the best value for my money. Because the Big 3 have to earn my business. If it was even close in comparable quality and longevity, and the price was a little more, I'd think about it. Because while Racism may motivate some, it doesn't matter one damned whit to me. For me, it's a simple question of how long the car will last, and how long I have to pay for it. I've owned "Domestic" cars before. They never last as long as their "Foreign" counterparts. My Father took a big risk buying a Toyota in 1974, and later in 1985 I bought it from him for $600. He bought another Toyota, because during the same eleven year period, we'd gone through two "Domestic" Cars, and were about to get a third for Mom to run the family around in.
But now, I think I have a pretty good idea of why you're not fond of the better product, and it's a real shame to see in the writings of a Democrat in the 21st Century.
coldmountain
(802 posts)Thanks for just saying it! You're a self centered anti-union globalist saying you're a progressive. No need for having a thousand ballerinas dancing on the head of a pin.
BTW, Consumer reports says the new 2014 Chevy Impala is the best sedan they ever tested. I guess that means it's better than any Japanese sedans.
Consumer reports also just said the new Chevy Silverado truck was the truck edging out the Ram> Heck those new V6 Rams get better gas mileage than COMPACT Japanese trucks.
Sad one has to justify being pro UAW on Democratic Underground
Savannahmann
(3,891 posts)In nearly every reply I have mentioned the ILA which is the Lonshoremans Union. Yet because I prefer value for my money I am an anti union globalist in your narrow world. Why are you opposed to the ILA, The Teamsters, and the Railroad union workers? Why don't they matter to you?
http://usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/cars-trucks/rankings/cars/
Now this is US news, which is another mainstream source. You will denounce them as anti UAW because the "Foreign" cars dominate nearly every category.
You accept my assertion that your motivation is based upon Racism, and try to paint me with a globalist attitude for pointing out that many "Foreign" cars are built here in the United States. How you make that leap is beyond the comprehension of everyone here. If you must continue with the racism you have displayed here, could you please return to freeper land and that way the rest of the adults can discuss the issues?
coldmountain
(802 posts)Last edited Fri Sep 20, 2013, 01:39 AM - Edit history (1)
YOUR JAPANESE CARS ASSEMBLED IN AMERICA GOT CRUSHED
LOOK AT YOUR OWN LINK! Ram best fullsize truck!Fusion best hybrid!
Chevy Cruze & Ford Focus 2nd&3rd best compacts beating Honda, Toyota, Subaru, Nissan, VW, Kia, Hyundai
Buick Verano came in 3rd this behind German built VW GTI and BMW 1 series beating all JapanInc competitors
Ford Fusion 2nd best midsize behind HYundai but beating all JapanInc competitors
Chevy Impala and Chrysler 300 2nd and third best fullsize cars behind a brand new built in Korea Kia entry but beating all JapanInc competitors!
Buick and Jeep 1 and 2 in affordable midsize SUV's
Tahoe and Suburban 1 and 2 in affordable large SUV's
Jeep best off road SUV
Corvette 2nd best luxury sports car between 2 Porsches!
Chevy and Ford #2 and 3 in affordable convertibles
Affordable SUV's with third row Buick, Chevy, Chevy
Dodge 2nd best midsize minivan beating Honda Oddity
Yeah , you have the antique Tacoma niche market but fullsize American trucks beat it on gas mileage
http://usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/cars-trucks/rankings/cars/
Want to shoot yourself in the foot some more? You have no credibilty talking about cars. Go watch Jeremey Clarkson and Top Gear some more
coldmountain
(802 posts)FUSION BEST HYBRID!
RAM BEST FULLSIZE TRUCK
2nd best fullsize truck Ford
3rd best fullsize truck GMC
4th best fullszie truck Chevy
5th Toyota Tundra---Thank god the Nissan is even worse!
ucrdem
(15,720 posts)to hook an ipad up to a projector. And apparently it makes sure no knock-offs get out of the gate because the cheapest HK special I could find in the bowels of e-bay set me back 30 clams. 
If you look hard enough, you can buy an entire Windows system in passable working order for about the same amount on ebay. That's why Apples sucks. JMHO.
Posteritatis
(18,807 posts)Motown_Johnny
(22,308 posts)Just maybe.
Besides, even though the Sonic is made within 50 miles of where I live, many of it's parts are still imported. If you really want to buy an automobile that is made here then look through this list.
http://editorial.autos.msn.com/what-are-the-most-american-made-automobiles
^snip^
What Are the Most American-Made Automobiles?
By Evan Griffey of MSN Autos
"Made in America" doesn't mean the same thing it did during this country's manufacturing heyday, especially when it comes to automobiles. Luckily for those flag-waving car buyers who wish to express their nationalism by purchasing a vehicle built mostly by American workers, the American Automobile Labeling Act of 1992 requires automakers to list the percentage of United States and Canadian parts, the country of assembly and the origin of the engine and transmission for every model sold.
Click through to see the ten 2012 vehicles that are the most "made in America."
muriel_volestrangler
(105,461 posts)Maybe you'd like to ask for something other than a religious-based war.
Romulox
(25,960 posts)"Supporting unions doesn't mean you have to support EVERY union!" as way of defense of her Toyota. She had a sig-line extolling DU to SOLIDARITY! at the time.
Barack_America
(28,876 posts) HappyMe
(20,277 posts)their employees commit suicide.
dembotoz
(16,922 posts)coldmountain
(802 posts)Toyota’s manufacturing processes came under scrutiny in 2002 after one Kenichi Uchino collapsed and died on the Tokyo factory’s floor in his fourth hour of “voluntary overtime.” In his last month there, he’d worked 106 hours of overtime, largely unpaid — a standard practice in Japan, where employees are judged on their loyalty and dedication. The term “karoshi” (death from overwork) describes just such a situation, as a court ruled in favor of Uchino’s widow five years later. Toyota has since limited overtime to 360 hours a year,
http://www.businesspundit.com/the-15-most-notorious-sweatshops-of-all-time/
coldmountain
(802 posts)The Toyota You Don't Know
The Race to the Bottom in the Auto Industry
http://www.globallabourrights.org/reports?id=0503
Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)on that framing. I don't care for Apple culture, the way they market, make price points, the content of their ads, all of this I find highly objectionable. They could have the only tablet and I'd not buy one because of how they think. The whole status and prejudice routine with their products gets old, not to mention the messianic hype compared to the reality of production, prices and profit.
coldmountain
(802 posts)Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)Apple = Posers Delight. Sold with the most amoral marketing ever seen.
tabbycat31
(6,336 posts)This was in 1999. I bought a Ford Escort and my parents bought a Subaru Forester. The two cars were bought within a week of each other.
In January 2007, the Ford dies very suddenly (after having problems for the last two years) at 116K miles. At that point, I bought the Subaru off of my parents (who had 3 cars for 2 people and it was a spare car). The mileage was very similar to the Ford at that point.
It's now 2013 and I am still driving that Subaru. With 230K miles, I've done no major repairs, just routine maintenance and have had no major problems. I am so impressed with the reliability that I plan on replacing it with another Forester.
I'd still be driving the Ford had it not died.
hunter
(40,320 posts)Someday maybe I won't have to have a car. As it is, I drive a mid 'eighties car with a salvage title.
I have an old Mac SE/30 that I got for free, but only only because I used to work with them and I wanted the emulator on my Linux desktop to be as legal as possible. (See! I own the ROMS and original software!)
Many years ago I stopped buying software and computers. The appeal of Apple products or new cars eludes me, but if people want them and earned the money to buy them, I appreciate that. One of my kids has an iPhone, another some fancy Android thing. Not the sort of phones I ever bought for them, but it's money they make as adults and I'm glad they've got simple things that make them happy.
I bought a new car when I was young, and it made me happy, but I'd never do it again. Making the payments was, at times, pretty damned brutal, especially when our oldest kid was born and we discovered what our medical insurance wouldn't pay. 80% coverage seems like a lot until you see the hospital bill for unexpected complicated things.
But I managed pay the car off and drove it more than twenty years longer until it just plain wore out. Our kids taught friends how to drive cars with manual transmissions using it, which may have hastened its demise.
Rex
(65,616 posts)nt.
coldmountain
(802 posts)That's a huge testiment to the quality of the Mac build quality and usefulness of the software.
I think people think they have no choice other than Microsoft or with certain applications really don't have an easy choice as many businesses are built around Microsoft soft ware
Egalitarian Thug
(12,448 posts)to be found. We hate M$ because they make shit and sell it to suckers for exorbitant prices, over and over and over, again.
Rex
(65,616 posts)At least you did gush about running linux on a 386. 
JackRiddler
(24,979 posts)joeybee12
(56,177 posts)coldmountain
(802 posts)Disgruntled worker drives over people at Mazda plant in Japan, killing 1 and injuring 10
Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/world/2010/06/21/disgruntled-worker-drives-people-mazda-plant-japan-killing-injuring/#ixzz2fNatyjyF
Court acknowledges Mazda’s use of temporary workers as illegal
March 14, 2013
The Yamaguchi District Court on March 13 acknowledged that 13 former temporary workers of Mazda Motor Co. have full-time employment status at the company, judging the automaker’s use of temporary workers to be illegal.
The lawsuit was filed on April 30, 2009 by 15 former temporary workers at the Mazda Hofu plant (Hofu City, Yamaguchi Prefecture), claiming that Mazda should accept them as full-time employees. Some worked six months while others worked more than five years at the plant. Mazda fired them all between 2008 and 2009 saying that Mazda’s contracts with their staffing agency expired.
http://www.japan-press.co.jp/modules/news/index.php?id=5404
Other nasty goings on with Mazda when they used to be in America
http://books.google.com/books?id=JUY6qFylW9IC&pg=PA155&lpg=PA155&dq=mazda+contract+workers+in+Japan&source=bl&ots=wEdxlw5aWC&sig=i4P9p568_KTa1IaK0E-JK4lonpc&hl=en&sa=X&ei=13c7UpGrG5S49gTMnICwBA&ved=0CGUQ6AEwBw#v=onepage&q=mazda%20contract%20workers%20in%20Japan&f=false
MineralMan
(150,498 posts)I think I've seen this before, more than once.
People buy automobiles that fit their unique requirements. They generally consider a range of cars, and then buy the one that is the best fit for their needs. That's what I did.
I researched the market, considered my budget, assessed my warranty requirements, which include a full bumper-to-bumper warranty throughout the time I'm making payments, and compared specifications and other factors. I bought the car that was the best match for my requirements and needs, and am quite happy with it.
I bought it from a U.S. car dealership that employs a bunch of American workers. The car, itself, was made elsewhere.
You may want me to feel guilty, but there was no US-made automobile that met my criteria. The warranty thing was the real killer in that regard. Price was another issue, and the availability of a base model I could purchase.
So, do I feel guilty? I do not. I bought a car that was suitable for my needs and budget, and that included a warranty that will still be in effect when I have finished paying for the car.
Have a nice day.
coldmountain
(802 posts)
MineralMan
(150,498 posts)I am sure the employees at that dealership and tbeir families are glad I bought a car there.
xfundy
(5,105 posts)Much of the noise against Apple was churned by cancervatives, until the news leaked that Apple uses Chinese slave labor.
coldmountain
(802 posts)Travis_0004
(5,417 posts)I find it tough to believe practices like that would be going on in Japan.
Union Scribe
(7,099 posts)People all have various excuses why they don't spend like they talk. Online it's union-solidarity-rah-rah then they log off and give it no thought til the next time they're on DU championing the cause of organized labor.
coldmountain
(802 posts)2014 Chevrolet Impala is Consumer Reports' highest-scoring sedan
With the release of our latest road tests, the 2014 Chevrolet Impala becomes the highest-scoring sedan in Consumer Reports’ ratings. Among all cars, its 95-point score falls short of just the Tesla Model S ultra-luxury hatchback (99) and BMW 1 Series coupe (97). No other domestic car has topped the sedans ratings since we began tracking scores in that fashion over 20 years ago.
Consumer Reports’ engineers found the Impala rides like a luxury sedan, with a cushy and controlled demeanor, while delivering surprisingly agile handling, capable acceleration, and excellent braking. The Impala corners quite well for a large car, with prompt turn-in response and controlled body lean. Steering is nicely weighted; it’s light enough for parking maneuvers and provides decent feedback. When pushed to its handling limits, the Impala proved secure, responsive, balanced, and easy to control.
http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/2013/07/2014-chevrolet-impala-highest-scoring-sedan-consumer-reports/index.htm
AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)nt
coldmountain
(802 posts)AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)nt
Egalitarian Thug
(12,448 posts)Romulox
(25,960 posts)Egalitarian Thug
(12,448 posts)and always has been, bad management that caused American autos to suck, not the workers.
Even into the '90s, when virtually every company had facilities here and in Japan, the cars coming out of the Japanese factories and being shipped were of noticeably better quality even as the Japanese workers were paid far better than their American counterparts.
Romulox
(25,960 posts)Americans workers simply cannot compete in virtually ANY industry, which is why IT workers, e.g., are so easily replaced with moderately trained Indians and others.
The idea that only auto companies are poorly managed or have unproductive workers is absurd. Reality all around tells you so, as most products we use daily are both engineered and manufactured in Asia, along with a large proportion of the services.
Egalitarian Thug
(12,448 posts)The subject of the OP is about cars and Apple, so I limited my comment to cars.
Romulox
(25,960 posts)You remind me of an old SNL skit, in which Alec Baldwin (a rich man) has opened an institute to study how to pass a camel through the eye of a needle.
The very same logic of the market you use to choose to purchase the products of foreign labor can (and most certainly will) be applied to you. It's not some sort of karma--it's just how markets work.
coldmountain
(802 posts)The quality of all cars have improved drastically for all manufacturers especially for American makes.
Meanwhile about those better highly paid Japanese workers:
Disgruntled Mazda contract worker drives car into factory, killing one
A 42-year old former employee of Mazda drove his car into a bunch of people at a Mazda plant in Hiroshima, killing 1 and injuring 10. He was arrested on attempted murder charges — however, nobody really knows why the guy was so disgruntled. He only worked at Mazda for 8 days in April, and he quit on his own accord. One expert predicts that this could be a side effect of the discrepancy between the overly protective lifetime employment system and the half-assed contract worker agreements:
Koetsu Aizawa, professor of economics at Saitama University, said the discriminatory dual system of employment was common at major Japanese companies because regular workers, hired under a lifetime employment system, can’t be fired.
okyomango.com/2010/06/disgruntled-mazda-contract-worker-drives-car-into-factory-killing-one/
sufrommich
(22,871 posts)why some DUers support unions until they don't,along with crying crocodile tears over the death of Detroit. 
Xithras
(16,191 posts)I'll never buy another Chrysler because I've been burned by their low quality shitcars too many times. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me. Fool me three times and I'm never buying their low quality crap again, no matter how much they claim to have "changed". Chrysler reminds me of an abusive ex-boyfriend trying to convince his girlfriend to get back with him. "I know I've screwed up, but I've changed! I swear!"
I'd buy a GM, but they have a knack for making the most unattractive cars I've ever seen. Beauty is subjective, and I know that many like them, but IMHO they need to fire their design staff and start over. They seem to have only two design modes: "Big, boxy, and frumpy", or "Aggressive dick compensators". The one car line that I did like (Saturn) was killed off. I was about to buy my daughter an Astra when the announcements came down about GM closing down the brand.
But my wife recently took a CMAX Energi for a spin and fell in love. We were going to trade her piece of garbage Dodge in for a Prius C, but a friend convinced her to stop by the Ford dealership (to show her the also-attractive Fusion), the showroom guy asked her if she'd looked at the CMAX, and it was love at first sit. So, apparently, we'll have another American car pretty soon after all.
coldmountain
(802 posts)That Fusion and Escape sure are doing well but much of the American car business has resurged.
Don't be so hard of today's Chrysler since the Germans and chainsaw capitalis Cerberus hvae left the building. Blaming Marchionne's Chrysler for past mistakes is like blaming Obama for 9-11, Chrysler is a very different company as the recent upsurge in sales, marketshare and happy customers attest to.
Xithras
(16,191 posts)We're primarily waiting on the electrician at this point. You can't charge them using extension cords, and our garage lacks an electrical circuit capable of charging a car. That's one big hassle to owning an electric car that I hadn't considered, but it's fairly minor in the grand scheme of things. Electrician will be out Tuesday to give us a quote and schedule!
As for Chrysler, only time will tell whether I'll give them another chance. My problem wasn't just with the quality of the cars, but with the service I received and an outright refusal to cover things that should have been covered under warranty. Like a defective brake rotor that warped at around 5000 miles, that they refused to cover because it was a "wear item"...in spite of the fact that they ADMITTED that it was a manufacturing defect in the rotor, and not normal wear or anything we had done. Part of it was the jerkasses at our local dealership, but I didn't get anywhere when I called Chrysler directly either. That's just one of dozens of issues I've had with them.
coldmountain
(802 posts)Electric cars are the future.
JNelson6563
(28,151 posts)Made by American union labor. You won't see me hemming & hawing, making excuses for why I buy cars from a foreign company.
I grew up in a GM family. I saw all the jobs the big three supported outside of their own companies. Many smaller plants all around the state making parts that go into the cars.
One thing the foreign car buyers don't realize is that many of those parts manufacturers would have had to close down had the big three folded. Sure Toyota and a few other put some cars together here but not enough to support those parts companies alone.
If we'd've lost our car industry we would have been far more screwed than most can even imagine. It crqacks me up to see the oblivious look down their noses at American cars and proclaim self-righteously they drive a (insert foreign car name here) which is made in America. lol Yeah and the profits are sent over-seas.
I live in northern MI which draws many tourists. The kind with money who have summer homes. The families stay and spend money all summer while dad goes down to work and comes back weekends. Lots of company execs and such from Chicago and Detroit. These people vacation and otherwise spend lots of money in various locations around my state and the entire country.
I haven't seen a single Japanese, German or South Korean exec in the summer-home crowd, ever. Oh and did I mention the countless rank and file auto workers who also vacation up here? Yeah, they drive their American cars around with their pro-labor bumper stickers. Eat at our restaurants, shop our stores, stay at cottages that have been in the family for generations....all things that support our economy in a big way.
But I'm sure none of that matters to the foreign car buyers. It matters to me though so I do what I can to support the effort.
Oh and I don't have an Iphone and probably never will. I have a simple cell phone from Credo & no landline at my house. Not big on gadgets, not very materialistic so don't care about keeping up with the latest toys.
Just my .0125 worth on the subject.
Julie