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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region Forumsquestion about kidney-stone related fees
My son recently had his first (hopefully last) very small kidney stone. Lithotripsy blasted it once into gravel. I'm so glad he's better.
I know this is an apples/oranges kinda question, but here goes:
He saw an ARNP twice (2nd visit was for the referral to the urologist).
He had two X-rays of the kidney, a "Chem7" blood test I believe, two or three UA's done and one CT scan.
He saw a board-certified urologist twice, for about 30 minutes total.
He had a cystoscopy and the lithotripsy I mentioned above.
Grand total to Aetna and I: about $5k for everything. Is this pretty typical ? I have no clue.
Before I get berated, I'm extraordinarily glad I was able to access this healthcare for my 17 year old son. I know many, many do not get treated and have to suffer. Medicare for all !!!
Thanks for your time, Steve
eta: added chem7 test
frazzled
(18,402 posts)Those are not real prices that you see on your bill. The insurer will get a discount. Hopefully, you'll pay little of it. I'm glad your son is okay!
steve2470
(37,457 posts)irisblue
(33,001 posts)did anyone suggest trying to 'catch' the stone or dietary changes to lessen the chance of more?
steve2470
(37,457 posts)Dietary changes, yes.. he caught gravel in his urine after the lithotripsy.
He wasn't passing it and had a lot of hematuria. Urologist recommended more water, no tea except green tea and chamomille tea, no sodas, stay away from the usual culprits, and take a supplement he recommended.
The supplement seemed a tad pricey, we looked at the vitamins and minerals in it. We may reverse engineer it.
longship
(40,416 posts)I am skeptical about this. I think it is known that some supplements can promote kidney stones (e.g., vitamin C), but I do not find it credible that a supplement would prevent kidney stones.
The human body is a very complex biological mechanism. It's not easily reducible to such easy solutions for what may be a mechanism (as it is apparently with me) that an individual might have the ability to easily create kidney stones. I think that is more likely a genetic trait which is not going to be fixed by supplementing the diet with some expensive nostrum.
The science is what the science is because nature is what nature is.
With this expensive supplements recommendation, I would encourage you to get a second opinion from another urologist before you enter into an expensive, and possibly non-productive path.
Find out about what these supplements are and remember, Google is your friend. Focus your searches on known first rate medical establishments. Mayo clinic, Johns Hopkins, U of Michigan, Harvard/Yale, Stanford, etc. Avoid individual doctor sites.
If you have access to PubMed, you might want to look up the actual research.
"Expensive supplements" is a big trigger for me. Check it out. (If it even exists.)
I know. It's complicated. Alas, so is the human body. That's why people can get away with selling bogus therapies.
Ask questions and become informed is your best protection.
steve2470
(37,457 posts)Trying to remember the name now. No way we're paying $50 every 3 months.
longship
(40,416 posts)Get the name of the supplement.
If the research doesn't support the urologist's claim, run away from him/her.
Plus, it seems funny that my friend's daughter, myself, and your son all had their first kidney stone attack at about the same age. Yet his urologist says this is unusual. I know my evidence is anecdotal and not trustworthy, but maybe people who have the tendency to have kidney stones start doing so at about that age. That's something I never thought about, but it's an interesting question.
Look up the supplement name and find out what the research says.
REP
(21,691 posts)(I pass stones every 30-40 days and have for 30+ years ... and I'm female)
Ask a urologist or a nephrologist - really, only uric acid stones can be prevented reliably.
newfie11
(8,159 posts)In Wyoming
steve2470
(37,457 posts)She is a ultrasound technologist. Knew what it was, came in early for lithotripsy, and after several hours was released to go home.
The original bill was reduced from the 25000. Now with the hospital reducing the price due to her having insurance, her bill is $5000.
Yep even with insurance your screwed.
steve2470
(37,457 posts)longship
(40,416 posts)I have had to suffer kidney stones too many times to remember how many. I think about seven, my last was last year with no medical intervention. It passed that time, but not without a lot of discomfort, bloody urine, and outright horrible pain. Ibuprofen was my friend to the tune of hundreds of mg per day, all I could afford at the time.
I have had lithotripsy once and LASER once. Lithotripsy is easy-peasy; LASER not so much. The difference (AFAIK) is that lithotripsy works before the stone enters the ureter, the tube between the kidney and the bladder.
Another thing. Kidney stones can be very difficult to treat. They don't always show up on diagnostics and unless they can be found, an appropriate treatment cannot be prescribed.
What I've found out about this...
Vitamin C can be a catalyst for generating stones. Avoid vitamin C supplementation at all costs. I attribute one particularly bad kidney stone attack to my supplementing with Vitamin C (the one fixed by lithotripsy -- the stone was too big to enter the ureter). When my cousin showed me a paper connecting the two, I stopped taking vitamins all together. You don't need them anyway, if you eat a well balanced diet.
Listen to the urologist!!! He or she will undoubtedly prescribe diet restrictions which should be taken seriously. No, kidney stones won't kill you. But damn! Sometimes the pain is so bad that one wished one could just end it all. Following the rules might not stop the stones, but it's a whole lot better if they're small and can be passed without intervention, albeit with some pain.
And another thing. Astronauts have high frequency of kidney stones due to living in micro-gravity environments. Calcium isn't needed to build up bones, so it leeches into the kidneys.
I know. Too much information. But I've had over forty years of kidney stones. I thought I'd share what I've learned.
steve2470
(37,457 posts)The urologist made the pointed comment that my son was very young to be having his first kidney stone. He did say kids can have it earlier, but 17 is still very young.
I will pass all that info along to him. Thank you again and best of luck to you with your health.
longship
(40,416 posts)I passed my first at about 19, IIRC. I thought I was going to die. Funny, I didn't say anything to anybody because the pain reflects along the nerve and can manifest in areas one doesn't talk about in polite company. (If you get my meaning... Cough, cough, a guy's balls.)
Again. Listen to the urologist. Tell the doc about any supplements your son is taking. It's probably an oxylate stone -- they'll analyze it. So probably no more spinach for your son.
I obey my diet fairly well, but at 65 I take a realistic point of view. A single serving of spinach isn't going to make kidney stones. I avoid the forbidden things but I am not anal retentive about it. If one is like me and is going to have kidney stones regardless, I am happy that my most recent attacks have been manageable with no expensive medical intervention.
If you or your son have specific questions, I invite you to PM me. But it's better to ask his urologist as he or she will have all the up-to-date research at his or her disposal.
My best friend's daughter recently had kidney stones at 18. Treated without intervention. There is hope.
obxhead
(8,434 posts)I lived in Phoenix AZ for a time and met many people that suffered from stones. They all warned me to avoid unfiltered city water due to the amount of mineral deposits in it.
You could literally pour a glass of water from the tap and let it sit for 10 minutes and see a layer of "something" sitting on the bottom. Luckily I avoided getting one myself.
Obviously I'm not able to make any kind of diagnosis as to the cause here, just passing on info that possibly saved me a great deal of pain in one circumstance I lived with.
Best of luck
steve2470
(37,457 posts)GeorgeGist
(25,322 posts)but for sand it's probably about par before the insurance rates kick in.
OhioChick
(23,218 posts)I am happy to hear that your son is okay.
steve2470
(37,457 posts)Barack_America
(28,876 posts)I can imagine that for the urology consult and lithotripsy alone.