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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsDear DU progressives: journalist shield laws are a good, not unconstitutional fascism
You certainly shouldn't take my word for it. Take the word of free press advocates. Like the Reporters Committee for Freedom of the Press:
Founded in 1970, the Reporters Committee for Freedom of the Press offers free legal support to thousands of working journalists and media lawyers each year. It is a leader in the fight against persistent efforts by government officials to impede the release of public information, whether by withholding documents or threatening reporters with jail. In addition to its 24/7 Legal Defense Hotline, the Reporters Committee conducts cutting-edge legal research, publishes handbooks and guides on media law issues, files frequent friend-of-the-court legal briefs and offers challenging fellowships and internships for young lawyers and journalists. For more information, go to www.rcfp.org, or follow us on Twitter @rcfp.
Here's what they have to say about the current federal shield law being proposed, (The Free Flowing Information Act):
Press Release | September 12, 2013
Reporters Committee statement on shield bill
The U.S. Senate Judiciary Committee today passed the Free Flow of Information Act of 2013. Our statement:
We are pleased to see that the Judiciary Committee passed this bill. It goes a long way toward ensuring that reporters will be protected from subpoenas for their confidential information and sources. It's not a perfect bill, but it tries to cover a broad array of reporters. While it is not as inclusive as we would like, it is not nearly as limited in that area as previous attempts at a federal shield law have been.
It still is important that we work with Congress and the administration to make sure journalists' records are not scooped up in broad surveillance programs, and that Justice Department attorneys respect the rights of reporters, but today's action is a significant step in the right direction.
http://www.rcfp.org/reporters-committee-statement-shield-bill
Those who tell you that the federal law is about licensing or controlling or licensing or restricting journalists are either ignorant or liars. It's about making sure that overzealous federal prosecutors can't strong-arm journalists like Holder's DOJ has done to James Risen.
enlightenment
(8,830 posts)You've been busy arguing your point in the other thread. This looks a bit like a call out, without naming names.
tsk.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)journalist shield laws?
enlightenment
(8,830 posts)My question was why you would carry a conversation (such as it was) out of a thread and post a new thread to express your disdain for the attitudes expressed in the thread in which you were posting.
It has a "taking my ball and going home" feel to it.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)I figured one thread of sanity in defense of journalist shield laws would be appropriate.
I'm not sure people realize how colossally stupid it is to claim that supporting journalist shield laws is proof that a person is fascist.
Makes as much sense as Ted Cruz filibustering the Obamacare defunding bill in order to defund Obamacare.
http://blogs.rollcall.com/wgdb/filibuster-the-house-cr-some-conservatives-say-yes/
enlightenment
(8,830 posts)and your vigorous defense of the shield law in it, when I clicked out and saw this thread.
I would think that your argument against the "Orwellian" speak would be better placed IN that thread, since you are so concerned about people falling prey to what you feel is not just a different opinion, but actual disinformation.
Starting a different thread wherein you refer to the OP of the "Orwellian" thread as a liar doesn't seem like fair play to me - but obviously you feel differently about it.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)The person ranting about how only fascists support this bill in the other OP is not confused.
enlightenment
(8,830 posts)this sort of thing. I asked a question; you have chosen an answer that doesn't really answer my question but seems to satisfy you - so okay. Enjoy your thread.
sufrommich
(22,871 posts)more often here and it deserves it's own thread.
enlightenment
(8,830 posts)It's like sitting is a room, hearing someone saying something you disagree with and then choosing to go to a different room to voice why you disagree.
Silly stuff.
1000words
(7,051 posts)I thought DU was solely comprised of progressives. Why qualify the intended audience?
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)The point I was making is that journalist shield laws are progressive policy.
Instead, people are making journalist shield laws out to be fascism.
leftstreet
(36,103 posts)I can't fucking WAIT til Jeb Bush (or someone like him) reinvents the GOP with progressive social policies, keeping the bootstrap licking economic trickledown bullshit - and all the Reagan Democrats can finally return to their beloved party!
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)leftstreet
(36,103 posts)They're NOT uneducated. They saw their 4 yr degrees as tickets out of the working class
They're NOT socially conservative - hello the Religious Right is why they ran away from the GOP
They're NOT all white. Jesus
Yes it's true they're older at this point
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)The term can also be used to describe moderate Democrats who are more conservative than liberal on certain issues like national security and immigration. The term Reagan Democrat also refers to the vast sway that Reagan held over the House of Representatives during his presidency, even though the house had a Democratic majority during both of his terms.[1] The term also hearkens back to Richard Nixon's Silent Majority; a concept that Ronald Reagan himself used during his political campaigns in the 1970s.
The work of Democratic pollster Stan Greenberg is a classic study of Reagan Democrats. Greenberg analyzed white ethnic voters (largely unionized auto workers) in Macomb County, Michigan, just north of Detroit. The county voted 63 percent for John F. Kennedy in 1960, but 66 percent for Reagan in 1980. He concluded that "Reagan Democrats" no longer saw Democrats as champions of their working class aspirations, but instead saw them as working primarily for the benefit of others: the very poor, feminists, the unemployed, African Americans, Latinos, and other groups. In addition, Reagan Democrats enjoyed gains during the period of economic prosperity that coincided with the Reagan administration following the "malaise" of the Carter administration. They also supported Reagan's strong stance on national security and opposed the 1980s Democratic Party on such issues as pornography, crime, and high taxes.[1]
Greenberg periodically revisited the voters of Macomb County as a barometer of public opinion until he conducted a 2008 exit poll
1000words
(7,051 posts)If not, the opening qualifier wasn't necessary, don't you agree?
LondonReign2
(5,213 posts)We have a small but loud minority that don't consider themselves progressive. They spend their time defending the NSA, advocating for bombing Libya (until the President says he isn't going to, at which time they do a 180), and justifying appointments of Republicans in a Democratic Administration.
Progressive is a disparaging term to them. Its quite bizarre.
Whisp
(24,096 posts)kidding aside, thanks for posting this. I knew there was something more to it that Sky Is Falling version 2996
FirstLight
(13,359 posts)As a Freelancer who goes for long times between good gigs I would may be covered. There is also the 'national security' angle that makes me personally uneasy. IMO, the words National Security and Free Press should NOT be in the same sentence together, it is creeping fascism. The govt should not be trying to regulate freedom of the press in any way.
here's a snippet from the Freedom of the Press Foundation blog:
Also, its worth noting another major flaw in this bill that was completely absent from the debate today: the giant national security exception carved out to placate the White House. Weve written about how this provision will leave the journalists most vulnerable to being subpoenaednational security reporterswith the least protection. Hopefully, this provision can be removed entirely, either during debate on the Senate floor, or, if the bill passes both houses, during conference with the House. Otherwise, the bill might end up hurting more than helping the people its intended to help the most.
The Shield Law is a smokescreen making it easier for the government to pillage Journalistic sources...a sacred thing. It is worded to sound like a protection for us, when it is really another tool for rounding up whistle blowers.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)The bill has been endorsed by the ACLU:
https://www.aclu.org/blog/free-speech/senate-finally-frees-press-kind
RCFP:
http://www.rcfp.org/reporters-committee-statement-shield-bill
Even your quoted source is only mildly perturbed at the bill, not viewing it as a prelude to Gulags.
FirstLight
(13,359 posts)but freedom of the press is not something the government in this day and age need to be messing with. Call me paranoid, but the NSA's ability to access journalistic sources is NOT something I appreciate or approve of.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)WilliamPitt
(58,179 posts)I think I mentioned a while back that, while I was in journalism school -- And, yes, I went to J-school. Don't let that get around, OK? -- we were all the time debating the notion of a shield law. It was the late, great George Reedy, without whom I likely would have been the one lawyer who broke the camel's back, who pointed out that, if we accepted a shield law, then we also would have to accept government's right to define who it would be that the shield law covered, which meant we had to accept the government's right essentially to define what a journalist was, and this way, George said, lay madness. He mentioned the Royal licenses against which colonial pamphleteers rebelled. And the Stamp Act. And the use of the post office to restrict the circulation of unpopular ideas, from abolitionist newspapers to the Comstock laws.
(snip)
This isn't a law to protect journalists. If it were, that list of loopholes at the end wouldn't be quite so lengthy -- or quite so vague. (You can drive a team of ploughhorses through "information that could stop or prevent crimes such as..." This is a law to protect secrets. This is a law that redefines the exercise of a constitutional right as a privilege "protected" by the government. This is a law that allows the government to define what "the press" is under the First Amendment, and, my god, if that's not the primary consitutional heresy in that regard, I don't know what is. And I don't care that a judge can "extend" that privilege. That's not a judge's job, either.
(snip)
Let me be quite clear. If you accept the Congress's right to define what a journalist is, you are a miserable traitor to the profession you presume to practice. You have, quite simply, become something less worthy than an informer, something lower than a jailhouse snitch. I'll leave it to my man Chuck Todd to take the king's shilling. Me? I'll stand with the 17-year old and his own website, and, with all the faith I ever have had in my constitutional right to do so, we both will tell Dianne Feinstein to fk off, thank you. Stuff your privilege. I have my rights.
http://www.esquire.com/blogs/politics/dianne-feinstein-sheild-laws-091913
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)There are journalist shield statutes in 32 states (others have created them judicially), with the oldest statute dating back to 1896. Are all of them about protecting the NSA too?
Who appointed Charles Pierce the Pope of Journalism? If he wants to excommunicate the vast majority of free press advocates, I guess he can reign over his kingdom of one.
Maybe Pierce can explain to James Risen how he had the constitutional right to not cooperate, regardless of what the legal system says.
Easy for an opinion columnist who doesn't do any actual reporting to sneer at the idea of protecting reporters' sources.
1000words
(7,051 posts)Except the first body sentence, which I did not know. Thanks.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)against the reporters who depend on sources and favor shield laws. Good for the goose etc.
The Straight Story
(48,121 posts)The original intent of the law was to ensure we could not curtail/shorten the freedom of the press:
"or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press"
The founders could not have seen how the press would change over the centuries. So maybe we need to change the first amendment or spend lots of time trying to understand their intent (I heard some author say it was so the press could more freely print slave trade ads and such.....)
We need our current government to work more diligently to ensure that only the few can be considered the press (notice that they didn't say people but press, which could, maybe, possibly, mean only printed press and not electronic - so if you don't have an actual printing press you cannot be part of the press).
scarletwoman
(31,893 posts)Press - noun
28.
an act of pressing; pressure.
<...>
30.
printed publications collectively, especially newspapers and periodicals.
31.
all the media and agencies that print, broadcast, or gather and transmit news, including newspapers, newsmagazines, radio and television news bureaus, and wire services.
32.
the editorial employees, taken collectively, of these media and agencies.
33.
( often used with a plural verb ) a group of news reporters, or of news reporters and news photographers: The press are in the outer office, waiting for a statement.
34.
the consensus of the general critical commentary or the amount of coverage accorded a person, thing, or event, especially in newspapers and periodicals (often preceded by good or bad ): The play received a good press. The minister's visit got a bad press.
35.
printing press.
36.
an establishment for printing books, magazines, etc.
I believe it would be safe to assume that at the time of drafting the Bill of Rights, "the press" was understood to mean those who employed free speech to exert "pressure". I see no sub-clause or proviso in the language of the First Amendment that would indicate that Congress has the power to chose who is allowed to exert such pressure.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)from being forced to reveal sources. This would protect journalists.
scarletwoman
(31,893 posts)what the person said without being harrassed. Period.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)one gram of difference what people at DU think of that reality.
alarimer
(16,245 posts)Since when does the government get to decide who is a journalist and who isnt'?
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)You want journalists to be forced to testify against their sources. I think that is bad policy.