CBO Report is Damning for Ideologues - Right and Left

[michigandem58]

The Congressional Budget Office released its 2013 long term budget outlook on Tuesday. The document is the most significant vindication of President Obama's economic policies to date, both enacted and proposed, and it is the most damning thing to the president's economic critics, both Left and Right. The CBO reports that thanks to the president's strong leadership in investing in America's future and raising taxes on the wealthy, by 2015, the deficit will have been cut by 80% relative to the size of the economy from when President Obama took office...

As people live longer and longer - which is a good thing - they will utilize Social Security and Medicare longer and longer. That's just a fact, and adjustments will have to be made if these programs are to continue to keep the promise of a social safety net in perpetuity. And no, waiting until we reach ever closer to the brink to try a 1983 Reagan-style solution raising the retirement age isn't the answer, as some Leftist ideologues still suggest.

Our long term fiscal challenges can be solved with fairly modest changes to the safety net and the tax code. But that will not happen with intransigence and rigidity coming from both the Right and the Left. It will not happen if the Right never budges an inch on taxes. It will not happen if we liberals do not provide our president with the breathing room he needs, accusing him of selling out at every turn. And if it doesn't happen, we will edge closer and closer to the edge, and the closer we get to the edge, the more drastic the changes will need to be.

Liberals can choose between the president's sensible proposals to adjust the programs while protecting the vulnerable, or we can wait until we get to the brink and a Republican president forces changes we hate, ala Reagan who raised the retirement age, dumped double the burden on the self-employed, and taxed social security and unemployment benefits, with Democrats' help. We have a choice now. But we won't have that choice forever. The clock is ticking.

http://www.thepeoplesview.net/2013/09/cbo-report-makes-clear-why-grand.html

[DJ13]

1. There's Nothing in the Middle of the Road but Yellow Stripes and Dead Armadillos

-Jim Hightower

[FreakinDJ]

80. ^^^ Ya This Guy ^^^

Fuck being talked down to and basically told to shut up

[AgingAmerican]

92. This

[MannyGoldstein]

2. The increase in life expectancy was predicted 60+ years ago

In fact, life expectancies are on the low end of the range they thought we'd be at now. SS does not need to be touched, uncooked numbers based on the actual historical performance of the US economy show that it's fully funded as far out as has been studied. The White House's cooked numbers, which assume that we never recover from our depression, show a shortfall in 25 years. But I'm confident that once we get a President who doesn't brag that he's a good of a austerian as Hoover (and who doesn't also get Hovver's results), we'll recover.

Obama's policies, of aiding the wealthy and hosing the 99%, are a disaster. A disaster. A disaster.

[woo me with science]

11. [phone]

[Demo_Chris]

93. this. nt

[on point]

3. Social Seecurity is NOT part of the debt problem. It is self funded and is easily fixed

Simply lift the cap, or tax all income and issues with social security are fixed until end of century

Medical costs can be greatly helped with single payer.

Problems with the debt can be fixed by cutting military spending and restoring the tax rate on the wealthy to what it was.

This report is just an excuse for the 1% to try to steal more money from the 99%.

It is bogus

[Johonny]

8. this

[daleanime]

23. +1

[stillwaiting]

66. This report is a con job meant to hoodwink the stupid masses.

I'm not part of the stupid masses though. Too bad for them I will fight cuts to SS/Medicare every step of the way.

[SidDithers]

4. DU rec...nt

Sid

[Aerows]

14. I love it when Canadians

that don't have the current problems that we have in American society, namely no public health care and a dwindling social safety net, chime in on how bad such things are when they HAVE IT.

Move to the US, and have a health problem, then come back and tell us all how horrible social safety nets are. I DARE you.

[Thinkingabout]

16. Just as a friend who broke her leg while visiting France, went to the Dr there, x-rayed, sent to

An orthopedic, got cast and was on her way out in three hours. It took eleven days to see an orthopedic in the states, she waited two week to get wheelchair from Medicare and three weeks to get any assistance to bath and physical therapy. Now where are the long lines, right here in the US. The French national health care is much faster than the pre ACA.

[Aerows]

76. My point exactly

it is easy to sit from the sidelines and chime in, but if you live under the system in the US, there is a lot to complain about.

[SidDithers]

21. I love it when xenophobes chime in on nationalities...nt

Sid

[Aerows]

22. I don't think laws

that you live in under a specific country, acknowledging that you live under those laws and others do not counts as xenophobia. It's more like hypocrisy.

If you think our Social Security system is so great, come live under it, then see why we complain. Oh, and you can have our health care system, too, if I can trade you for yours.

[neverforget]

29. No doubt but he doesn't have the courage of his convictions.

It's really easy to sit and snipe from another country.

[Aerows]

30. Pretty much

it's great to dream of how awesome it is here when you can die of a stomach infection and then your family has their finances ruined.

[neverforget]

32. Absolutely. When it came to Syria I asked him in a thread

"Is Canada going to join in or are they going to watch from the sidelines like you?"
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=3591895

No response. When you have nothing to lose you can talk all the smack you want.

[treestar]

48. Unwarranted personal attack

The issue does not change, no matter where the commentator is from. If an American said the same thing it would still be the same thing.

[Aerows]

75. No, it's a good point

Commenting on laws that they don't live under is hypocrisy, no matter how you slice it.

[NoOneMan]

77. So can someone who lives in California comment on stupid ass laws in Florida?

Or no?

Its not a good point. Its a truthy point. It just feels good to you to say this crap about Canadians.

I happen to live in Canada as an aside. I used to live in the US and suffer under this horrible safety net. You would be wise to stop and listen to a little sanity and wisdom from your neighbors who care.

[Fumesucker]

78. I don't recall Sid ever mentioning overturning single payer in Canada for mandated private insurance

Evidently he's not posting on DU about his struggle for a private mandate in Canada.

[Aerows]

79. Exactly

If you don't live in the US, you have no right to come swinging into a forum and champion against human rights laws that your country has as a RIGHT. Health care is a human right and coming in here and saying that they aren't isn't reasoned or enlightened, especially if you live in a country that already has universal health care.

[treestar]

85. Not the point

It's not Sid's fault the US has tons of stupid teabaggers.

[Fumesucker]

90. Sid owns his words

He thinks the private mandate is great.

ETA: Being mocked by someone for wanting access to a necessity of life that you lack when you know they have it no questions asked is a powerful motivator for dislike.

[NoOneMan]

86. Yep, and if that heap of shit was pushed on Canadians, you would of seen riots

Just look what happened when they tried to increase tuition back east

[Aerows]

81. You live in Canada

I'd like to hear your complaints about how your family and their finances were ruined over an illness.

Because you have no such complaints.

[NoOneMan]

87. Oh, no, I have no complaints now

I was sick of complaining so I moved from one piece of land to another (one with more sanity). But hell, in the old piece of land the masses insanely begged for a heap of shit "reform" of the insurance system, as if suffering from Stockholm Syndrome. Glad I packed my bags.

You get the Democracy you deserve or the one you are willing to move to. Because this shit aint changing anytime soon.

In any case, I still have an opinion. And thats ok by me or anyone else I give a fuck about

[treestar]

84. How silly

I comment on laws in Saudi Arabia - they suck. That's "hypocrisy?"

[FreakinDJ]

83. Unsolicited Advice from a Foreign Country

Honestly I think it is rather disingenuous of foreigners not having some thing in their sig line and commenting on the American Experience

[Laelth]

5. I vehemently disagree that we should cut Medicare & SS now before the Republicans do it.

If they want to cut these programs, then let them do it if they can. We should not do their dirty work for them.

-Laelth

[Mojorabbit]

6. Spam and What Leftist ideologues are calling for an age increase???? nt

[stevenleser]

35. It's not spam. nt

[Mojorabbit]

36. yes it is and the board gets spammed with this third way mess every day. nt

[stevenleser]

37. No, it isn't. People post links from their favorite sites all the time. The OP has as much right to

post them as anyone else does.

[Mojorabbit]

73. It is spam. nt

[AgingAmerican]

91. It is trolling

It is meant to divide and disrupt.

[JaneyVee]

7. KNR!

[Cha]

9. President Obama and Team know what they're doing..

thank goodness we have them. There's good news all over the place. The only bad news is the republicons.

thanks michigandem

[WorseBeforeBetter]

10. RAISE THE FUCKING CAP. And JOBS, so more are paying into it.

Why so dense, Spandan?

Income And Life Expectancy

I’ve referenced this before, but here’s the Social Security Administration study. Look at Table 4: since 1977, the life expectancy of male workers retiring at age 65 has risen 6 years in the top half of the income distribution, but only 1.3 years in the bottom half.

http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/11/10/income-and-life-expectancy/?_r=0

Not buying it. But keep fucking that chicken, Spandan.

[Aerows]

15. Amen

Raise the damn cap. That will solve the problem for decades to come.

[pa28]

20. That's the solution Obama campaigned on.

We need to hold him to it.

[WorseBeforeBetter]

24. Barack Obama: "Let me be clear: I will not do either."

Interesting that this issue has been brought back to life thanks to Spandan and Company. The next couple of weeks, with budget and debt ceiling talks, make me very nervous...

[pa28]

26. Gosh. He must be one of the left wing ideologues the OP warned us about. n/t

[avaistheone1]

61. Yes, however Obama did campaign on raising the SS cap.

[shenmue]

12. The deficit is down

You'd think the press would mention that maybe once in a blue moon.

[Igel]

17. Because we read and have memories.

"investing in America's future and raising taxes on the wealthy, by 2015, the deficit will have been cut by 80% relative to the size of the economy from when President Obama took office..."

That was after a sharp contraction, so the economy was smaller by comparison. Now we've had years of growth. We've raised taxes two ways. We have repayments from the FMs to artificially reduce the deficit. And yet the deficit is only 20% smaller than inauguration day.

Even that "baseline" deficit from 1/2009 included emergency spending--that extra $700 billion--*and* sharply reduced tax reductions. If Obama hadn't spent $350 billion of TARP, we'd still be well above the deficit on that day. At least the article doesn't cite useless numbers like the deficit for 2009.

And the prosperity is also being helped by $85 billion a month in "stimulus" pumped out by the quasi-independent Fed For the last few years. That's trillions to help restore liquidity, keep the deficit from hurting equity markets, and keep the interest payments low on the 40% or so of the debt that's built up since 1/2009.

That's the "reading part."

The "memory part" is excoriating a deficit of $450 billion during a nearly jobless recovery from recession as unsustainable, immoral, corrupt, and ultimately the destruction of the US economy. That, with lower taxes and two wars, instead of one wound down under the 2008 SOFA and the other about to wind down.

[DireStrike]

13. Did any leftists say the deficit wouldn't be cut?

As for the rest, it's all basically one statement:

Our long term fiscal challenges can be solved with fairly modest changes to the safety net and the tax code

with which I disagree.

[freshwest]

18. OMG! There you go after that rail! What of our sacred cows, will there be BBQ? Sorry, just bad today

The thought of nearly a million people out of work, soldiers forced to work without pay, millions of people (1 in 8 in my state) suffering food cuts, is making me cranky as hell.

I mean, damn it, it's the LEAST that a civilized society could do. It's what is given to people in floods, earthquakes and other natural disasters. We are suffering through a man-made disaster begun by Nixon and Reagan, through Nordquist, then the Randian Supermen and their population reduction and enslavement program.

Worried about a fascist dictatorship by Obama? Keep your eye on the shiny thing over there while they do it from the ground up and sneak up on you.

20% of military families are on food stamps. A good read with excellent political sense by a veteran on food stamps and an image I added:



My Name Is Jason, I’m A 35-Yr-Old White Male Combat Veteran… And I’m On Food Stamps

--snip--

My name is Jason. I turned 35 less than a week ago. My first job was maintenance work at a public pool when I was 17. I worked 40-hours a week while I was in college. I’ve never gone longer than six months without employment in my life and I just spent the last three years in the military, one of which consisted of a combat tour of Afghanistan.

Oh, and I’m now on food stamps. Since June, as a matter of fact.

Why am I on food stamps?

The same reason everyone on food stamps is on food stamps: because I would very much enjoy not starving.

I mean, if that’s okay with you:

…Mr. or Mrs. Republican congressman.

…Mr. or Mrs. Conservative commentator.

…Mr. or Mrs. “welfare queen” letter-to-the-editor author.

…Mr. or Mrs. “fiscal conservative, reason-based” libertarian.

I do apologize for burdening you on the checkout line with real-life images of American-style poverty. I know you probably believe the only true starving people in the world have flies buzzing around their eyes while they wallow away, near-lifeless in gutters.

Hate to burst the bubble, but those people don’t live in this country.

I do. And millions like me. Millions of people in poverty who fall into three categories.

Let’s call them the “lucky” category, since conservatives seem to think people on welfare have hit some sort of jackpot:

Those living paycheck to paycheck? They’re a little lucky.

Those living unemployment check to unemployment check? They’re a little luckier.

Those living 2nd of the month to 2nd of the month? *ding* We’ve hit the jackpot!

The 2nd of the month being the time when funds gets electronically deposited onto the EBT card, for those who’ve never been fortunate enough to hit that $175/month Powerball.

I fall into the latter two categories. But I’ve known people recently - soldiers in the Army – who were in the first and third. They were off fighting in Afghanistan while their wives were at home, buying food at the on-post commissary with food stamps.

And nobody bats an eye there, because it’s not uncommon in the military.

It’s not uncommon – nor is it shameful. It might be shameful how little service-members are paid, but that’s a separate issue.

The fact remains anyone at a certain income level can find it difficult from time to time to pay for everything. And when you’re poor you learn to make sacrifices. Food shouldn’t be one of them.

The whole concept is un-American. People living here, in the greatest country on Earth, with the most abundant resources, should be forced to go hungry because of the intellectual notion of fiscal conservatism and the ideological notion of self-reliance.

Are you fucking kidding me?

I didn’t risk my life in Afghanistan so I could come back and watch people go hungry in America. I certainly didn’t risk it so *I* could come back and go hungry.

http://thesterlingroad.com/2013/09/19/my-name-is-jason-im-a-35-yr-old-white-male-combat-veteran-and-im-on-food-stamps/

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023699016

Here's one to chew on, as the differences in the two parties has never been more clear, to those who know the facts:

Why does the Republican Party zealously pursue policies so obviously counter to the best interests of ordinary Americans?

Since the New Deal, Republicans have been on the wrong side of every issue of concern to ordinary Americans; Social Security, the war in Vietnam, equal rights, civil liberties, church- state separation, consumer issues, public education, reproductive freedom, national health care, labor issues, gun policy, campaign-finance reform, the environment and tax fairness. No political party could remain so consistently wrong by accident.

The only rational conclusion is that, despite their cynical "family values" propaganda, the Republican Party is a criminal conspiracy to betray the interests of the American people in favor of plutocratic and corporate interests, and absolutist religious groups.

Why? Because they're...



No, I'm not going to be nice about it.

[Sand Wind]

19. It is true that the situation is really not as bad as some media report. And little adjustment

Will probably be sufficient. But I think that the left is helping Obama with their pression. It is true that sometimes the extreme left can show some intransigence, that their critique are a bit paranoids. But in the long run, they play the role they have to play. I not sure that its fare to put them on the same level as the right who really wish for crazy reform.

[Scuba]

57. "Extreme left". Bwahahahahahahaha...

[Sand Wind]

62. Right, it is true that compare to a lot of other countries, the US center is far more on the right..

So that's mean that what is considered extrem left, could be the center left in others countries.

[Scuba]

63. You're confusing the politicians with the People.

Strengthening Social Security and Medicare for All are not "extreme left" positions.

http://www.nationalmemo.com/poll-clear-majority-want-no-medicare-social-security-or-education-cuts/

http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/poll-defense-social-cuts/2013/02/25/id/491821


There's about a zillion other polls that show our People are way left of the pols.

Then there's this ...

http://tv.msnbc.com/2013/03/09/study-politicians-think-voters-are-way-more-conservative-than-they-actually-are/

[Sand Wind]

64. I'm not considering these proposition to be extrem left, but it is a fact that a lot of people

In US will be voting against these...

[AgingAmerican]

25. That article is just more anti-Democratic third way tripe

Liberals wanted all of the Bush tax cuts GONE from the get go, not partially....after a few extra years of extension tossed in.

Social Security don't have to adjusted as per GOP requirements, that's a GOP talking point.

The safety net needs to be strengthened, not weakened by adding GOP 'solutions' to them.

The tax cuts need to go away, the CBO has stated time and again that they do not stimulate and all they do is drain the economy.

Your screed from your propaganda website is a bunch of easily refutable wannabe GOP tripe as usual. Your third way nonsense FAILs again.

[Scuba]

58. +1,000

[TheKentuckian]

27. The stupid thing consistently missed, so I'm left to assume it is willful, is that the safety net

is working so lives are extended. That is a feature not a bug. We don't want our seniors dropping off due to lack of access to health care. We put a floor in to slow down the starving in the streets. Logic inevitably leads to longer lives for those that survive to the age, it is the intent of having the programs.

Of course most of the increase is decreased infant mortality and we like to forget that the age has already been raised, the contribution increased, and to be fair the cap raised some too but the job pool is shrinking and we cannot foresee or even reasonably speculate on an environment where there will be an overall labor shortage nor is there much evidence to support any translation between any token increase in overall longevity and workplace longevity, which if actual employer practices are any indicator is actually declining at an alarming rate.

The question is not how to cut the spending but rather how to at least resource a critical minimum such as we have because to do otherwise is to turn our backs on civilization and decent society a little at a time rather than to come up with pocket change that will far better serve the VAST majority of souls in those senior years.

It is about choices and priorities and absolutely nothing else. Medicare due to overall medical inflation is one thing but Social Security? Social Security is pure priorities. I call for at least one percent to be set aside for long term care. Most never use it but the funding is bad situation and could at least use such a stress reliever and make some really accommodation for a tough reality for some.

[MFrohike]

28. Paul Krugman and Dean Baker are "leftist ideologues?"

Good to know.

If you don't understand the reference then you really shouldn't be writing on this topic.

[AgingAmerican]

70. Only if you buy into right wing talking points

which these, "centrist" types obviously do, then anybody who espouses anything Democratic would be labeled 'leftist Ideologues".

[tkmorris]

31. Spammity spam spam

All you do is push this damned blog. Why? Is there just NO OTHER SITE ON THE INTERNET that is worthy of reading or do you have some other motivation?

[stevenleser]

34. It's not spam. I have no opinion on the content, but this line of attack is ridiculous. nt

[hfojvt]

43. no opinion on the content

the content is dreck.

Sad that it gets 32 recs.

And if I wanted to read crap like that I could go to that stupid blog itself, I don't need its putrescence brought over here.

[stevenleser]

44. There are plenty of non msm websites that are linked to here and I am sure each has objectors.

Unless the admins say to not post them in a particular forum or group, or someone is actually trying to get paid selling a product, they are not spam.

[tkmorris]

52. Yes it is

This poster pushes content from this blog and only this blog. He does so daily. Whether you agree with the content of it is not relevant.

[stevenleser]

54. No, it's not. Plenty of people do that from their favorite source. nt

[Scuba]

59. No wonder Fox invites you on so often.

[stevenleser]

69. LOL! I love people who admit defeat by going ad-hominem! nt

[mick063]

33. Freaking dopplegangers, not Democrats.

Unrec.

[JNelson6563]

38. The answer is simple

raise the ceiling.

[Romulox]

39. Wages are down, poverty up during Obama's Presidency. Who the fuck cares about the deficit???

[Romulox]

40. Oh, and Michigan and DETROIT are in a shambles, and the President has refused to help.

[Autumn]

41. Sad. Most of the comments sound like a shit load of Cavers

Can those really be members of your site? Must be, I noticed you have to sign up to leave a comment.

[Live and Learn]

42. Since those life expectancy gains are going to the 1%,

not the 99%, they should start paying their way.

http://www.minnpost.com/second-opinion/2013/03/income-gap-plays-out-us-life-expectancy

[Jefferson23]

45. Who, by name, wrote this analysis? n/t

[AgingAmerican]

71. The conclusion of the article does not reflect what the CBO says

Which is typical of everything coming from that website. 90% of the articles there are written by one guy who obviously hates Democrats. Apparently to be an Obama worshiper you have to hate anything traditionally Democratic. That is because the third way are not Democrats, they are right wing DINOs.

[Jefferson23]

72. Not receiving a reply from the one who put up this OP I tried to find out who the blogger is

and what are his credentials/education.

It is one thing that he worships Obama, I don't really care. What does interest me is how he
formed his opinion and why does he seem to have such a positive following here.

Reading an OBC report and an analysis are two very different things, he made a claim that
Paul Krugman was a political rookie...I am thinking, really? I can't find on the internet anything about this guy
that would even remotely suggest he has the where with all to do proper analysis on anything
related to economics.

I don't get the recommends, not at all.

Thank you for your response..so far he sounds like an ass, third way or otherwise.

[treestar]

46. But it's only because we held his feet to the fire!!!!!!

The President really wants the economy to tank in order to help his corporate masters!!!!!!!!!!

[L0oniX]

47. Raise the fucking cap ...the fucking ass kissers of the rich won't do it.

[Scurrilous]

49. K & R

[Jefferson23]

50. Can anyone who has recommended this OP tell me who he is and what are his

credentials for his analysis of a CBO report?

What are these credentials and or education that supports his contention that Paul Krugman is a political rookie?

[dkf]

51. So they are crediting Obama's policies with the sequestration and not increasing spending?

Sure you can increase taxes, but if you spend enough the deficit is the same.

I would credit Obama if I thought this was as he wanted it. In reality it isn't which is obvious from his constant speeches on Republican obstructionism.

This budget is a compromise. If you complain about not spending enough then really the decreasing deficit isn't your baby.

Frankly what we have goes against both ideologies, including Obama's, which is why it is reducing the deficit.

[DisgustipatedinCA]

53. My plan is to keep being a liberal, no matter what values Republicans tell me I should sacrifice.

[Scuba]

55. If the document is a "vindication of President Obama's economic policies" then it's wrong.

[Hell Hath No Fury]

56. ...

[whatchamacallit]

60. Tokyo Rosacea

[eridani]

65. "Sensible proposals" = chained CPI = mass murder of old sick people without money

You can substitute hamburger for steak, but what do you stupid amoral sociopaths think the substitute for insulin is? Health care is by far the single largest budget item for the elderly, and there are no substitutes whatsoever for necessary care.

Leftist ideologues want to raise the retirement age? On what fucking planet? Young people can't start careers, and their grandparents are supposed to continue to compete with them for a shrinking number of jobs?

The president's policies have been great for the 1%, but the 99% is still in a depression. (Although it's true that he couldn't have really done much because of the Republicans. What I don't get is why we are supposed to be cheering this situation.)

[mmonk]

67. How can liberal ideologues be blamed or held

accountable for anything? Who is responsible for too big to fail banks, the deregulation that led to the crash in 2008? Who is responsible for the greatest economic inequality in US history since the Great Depression? This is a fail.

[grahamhgreen]

68. Haha, no. Much of it was the sequester, advocated by the left as opposed to other options.

[Tarheel_Dem]

74. K&R

[FreakinDJ]

82. No CBO report here - Just some AssHole's Opinion

[Rex]

88. True shame the blog owner passed up voting for Obama.

Has a way with words, what a waste.

[bobduca]

89. The Stupid Conservadem 'People's View

Where People = Sockpuppets

37 and counting!

[NuclearDem]

94. You would think someone called michigandem58

Would take the whole "the economy is going great!" rhetoric with a mountain of salt.

I mean, Detroit is in ruins, but all hail capitulating to Wall Street!