Why I choose to be a counterproductive left wingnut.
I don't change my position on the issues because of who occupies the Oval Office.
I opposed targeted assassinations of U.S. citizens under President Bush, so I also oppose them under President Obama.
I opposed invasive NSA spying and blanket warrants under President Bush, so I also oppose them under President Obama.
I opposed proposed cuts to Social Security and Medicare under President Bush, so I also oppose them under President Obama.
I opposed free trade deals (that strengthen the hands of global corporations and weaken the bargaining position of workers) under President Bush, so I also oppose them under President Obama.
I opposed austerity economics under President Bush (although he never actually tried it), so I also oppose it under President Obama.
By now, surely you get the picture.
I want to be counterproductive because I want to stop things. I want to be the spanner in the works; the fly in the ointment.
I think counterproductive left wingnuts stopped a potential Larry Summers fed chairmanship in its tracks. And that is a good thing.
I also think counterproductive left winguts helped to stop, or at least delay, a reckless and potentially illegal attack on Syrian government forces that would have proved detrimental to long-term U.S. interests in the region. (Some say that Obama brilliantly planned things to go the way they did all along. If so, then he sure is a lot smarter than his staunch supporters who were shilling for the missile attacks 24/7 when they thought that was his plan.)
It's not that I am inflexible and unwilling to compromise. I recognize that some things simply aren't possible right now.
But the Republicans are crazy. I'm not being hyperbolic here, either. The policies they support are insane and would destroy the lives of many Americans if they were ever allowed to go into effect. There is no compromising with that. The more we give them, the more they demand, and centrists who try to tell us otherwise must be living on some other planet.
President Obama has lots of admirable qualities, and I agree with him on a number of issues. He's pro-choice, a staunch supporter of gay rights and civil rights in general, he has been willing to raise taxes somewhat on the wealthy, and his health insurance plan will be an improvement over what existed before.
But I grow more and more convinced that the Democratic Party is in the process of selling its soul.
And I don't blame President Obama. He's just one of many.
As the Republicans fall farther and farther off the deep end, more and more Democrats are realizing that wealthy donors can be brought over to our side if only we "moderate" our positions on economic matters somewhat.
But I don't want my party to turn into nothing more than the pro-choice, gay-friendly, version of the republicans.
I have always shown up at the polls to vote for Democrats, from Dukakis in 1988 to Obama in 2012. But I'm not an automatic vote. Not anymore.
Somehow, between the late 19th and early-to-mid 20th centuries, the Republican Party transformed from the Party of Lincoln, to the Party of Reagan. I bet it did not happen overnight, and I bet there were many in the party who cried foul along the way.
I wonder if they ever got called counterproductive left wingnuts?
= new reply since forum marked as read
Well played!
Peace out!
I actually love those attacks on the Left. They reveal way, way more than they intend. We learn who the anti-Leftists are on DU every time. Suspicions confirmed!
Congrats, and many thanks. Save some room under the bus for me, dawg.
Room under the bus, I mean.
You really think everyone on here is that stupid? Or rather, the left on here? I do agree that you made no factual assertions. You said that yourself and yet you claim what you say is true and that you are "reality based". Sure.
You can go read my reply to you regarding just #19, leaving alone all the others, it's just flat out wrong and actually makes no sense whatsoever.
Whenever the GOP does something, that becomes the Democrat's fault.
No, I blame the Democrats for being, weak, vacillating and pusillanimous.
2. You imagine that President Obama is a dictator and he's deliberately making sure that Congress doesn't help people
You argue that all Obama needs to do is "fight harder" and "show some backbone" against the thinly-disguised GOP racists, and then they'd all just fall in line.
It's pretty obvious from reading history that there's a great deal of kabuki done in Washington, everyone knows where the negotiations are going to end up but the forms must be rigidly adhered to. Is this true all the time? Of course not but it's true more often than the BOG is remotely willing to admit.
3. You're not a regular campaign volunteer. In fact, you think writing screeds on DU is activism
You don't even know what cutting-turf is. You've never actually tried to convince an uncommitted voter, rather than attack people outside your little echo chamber.
I read posts nearly every day on DU of talks, arguments debates that DUers have with people in meatspace, why say this when you have no idea what people do?
4. Most of your DU screeds are not anti-Republican, they're anti-Democratic
You constantly crow that you're just "holding feet to the fire" except the vast majority of your screeds only bash Democrats. And often take on Republican coloring, like a reflexive belief in government and Democratic administration being evil.
So people agitating for single payer think government is evil? Government is a tool humans use, probably the most powerful one we have yet invented. It's been my experience that the more powerful the tool the more judiciously and cautiously it should be employed, it's one thing to hit your thumb with a framing hammer and entirely another to drive a nail into your kneecap with a nail gun. Some things governments habitually seem to want to do like surveillance need to be controlled very carefully because history shows us those sorts of things can get out of hand with horrible consequences.
5. You refuse to credit the President for anything you actually like, instead focusing purely on your hatred of him
If the President gets a very good deal, 99% of what you want, you'll rant about the 1% he had to give up. "Compromise" to you means everyone agreeing with what you want 100%.
Who here "hates" Obama? Sure there's a few that go over the top but even the more vocal critics seem to personally like Obama, he's quite the likeable person.
6. No one can remember the last time you actually praised anyone or anything, except someone else's hate-filled anti-Democratic screed
You seem to never have anything positive to say, leading most to believe that you're a very angry, bitter, person, with little emotional maturity. And other hate-filled screeds are all you manage to praise.
Bitter, hate filled screeds like this one?
7. You refuse to acknowledge that people on the other side of a debate have any legitimate concerns at all - like trying to keep a dictatorial regime from gassing its own people
Your fellow Democrats must be obsessed with bloodlust and love war, or at least that's what you believe.
A lot of us think with reasonable justification that any interference at this juncture in MENA by the USA is going to automatically be counterproductive, unlike Americans the inhabitants of that region have very long memories and few reasons to love America.
8. You never provide a argument about what should be done instead that would address the other side's concerns
An actual argument that would potentially be agreeable to both sides might actually change minds, but that would deprive you of your ability to feel sanctimonious. In fact, "Third Way" is an anathema to you.
That goes on here in GD constantly. For many of us "Third Way" means halfway between Republican and Democrat and we already feel the Democrats are too far to the right, of course it's anathema. You're taking what amounts to a technical term used to describe a set of policies and applying it where that definition doesn't fit. You know this.
9. You counter any moral argument with a diatribe about some past bad action taken by the U.S. - nearly always done during Republican leadership 10 to 50 years ago
All reprehensible actions taken by anyone outside the U.S. can be justified in a kindergarten "we did it once too" by bringing up some ancient cold-war wrong, nearly always done during a Republican administration.
What you mean is we remember from our personal experiences the US doing exactly or very nearly what it now condemns, it's really hard to avoid feeling your government is hypocritical when you remember them doing it too.
10. Instead of congratulating Democratic leaders on making what you feel to be the right choice, you imagine you have "defeated" the people who were actually mature enough to change their minds
You live in a black and white world of a zero-sum game, where someone else's winning means your losing and vice-versa. Therefore anything you like that happened is due to a "defeat" of the Democratic President.
The single group most obsessed with "winning" for the sake of winning on DU by far is the BOG.
11. You see no difference between Democrats and Republicans
Boy, there is not a single whit of difference, because you haven't gotten your maximalist position on everything.
Wrong, Democrats and Republicans differ a lot on social policy, markedly less so on economic and military policy.
12. Your arguments reference no facts, but are instead filled with unsubstantiated assertions. Your counter-arguments are ROTL icons
Did you know that President Obama is secretly twisting arms to destroy Social Security? Well, just because it isn't true doesn't keep you from stating it as fact. Any vague rumor is automatically true if it shows Democrats in a bad light. Your counterarguments typically run like this: "You're Quoting the New York Times?!? " You aren't actually laughing.
The ROFL smiley is practically Sid Dithers damn trademark.
13. You dismiss facts that don't fit your worldview, and personally attack people who provide them
ProSense drives you crazy, what with all her facts and figures and research that disprove your assertions. You attack people specifically when their references refuting your made-up B.S. are long and well documented.
14. You Godwin political discussions, liberally attacking other Democrats with words like "Authoritarian", "Police State", "Hitler", "Fascist", "Corporatist"
the new dog-whistle for fascist)
You call people who explain mainstream Democratic thought Obama "apologists", ignoring that there is absolutely nothing to "apologize" for. Paradoxically, taking actions to actually stop a dictator from gassing little children to death is something you are against. You never acknowledge that Hitler wasn't stopped with a sternly-worded letter either.
You talk about others Godwining discussions and then play the Godwin card yourself during the same point. Own goal, big time.
15 You imagine that the DU is representative of mainstream Democratic thought, instead of being a place for the very liberal left to gather
And further, you actually argue that your positions are correct simply because the majority of the D.U. hold it. Here is a small point of fact: President Obama's approval rating among Democrats is 85%.
You defeat one argumentum ad populum with another arugmentum ad populum. Own goal again.
16. You have "left" the Democratic party and/or are sole-arbiter on who is actually a "Democrat" and who isn't
Anyone who actually likes President Obama clearly can't be a real Democrat in your mind. You have also written a "Goodbye cold cruel DU - because people don't support me right or wrong - I will never vote Democratic again". For bonus points, you've done both.
No I haven't.
17. You continue to make excuses for Nader
And others who strengthen the GOP by dividing the Democratic coalition.
And centrists make excuses for conservadems who vote for cutting food stamps.
18. You imagine that anyone would pay to try to convince people like you that mainstream Democratic thinking is correct
Any time you lose an argument, or someone shows your assertion is complete bullshit by referencing established facts (see ProSense), they are clearly being paid to do so. Never mind that actual Koch propaganda is as nutcase and unconvincing as you are, it's all a grand conspiracy, I tell ya! A conspiracy!
Most of the long time posters long since quit clicking on ProSense's links because so often they are bogus and link to her own posts that have nothing to do with the subject matter. Call wolf enough times and people stop responding.
19. You recognize many of these behaviors in the Tea Party, and recognize how much they're damaging the Republicans, but don't acknowledge the same in your own behavior
Your few moments of clarity come when you look at the GOP and see how their extremists are destroying their brand. But the similarities between the Tea Party and you (including a reflexive hatred of the U.S. government and conspiracy mongering) is something that you refuse to acknowledge.
Has Dubya found those WMDs under the Oval Office rug yet? Practically every poster on here remembers a conspiracy to go to war in arguably the worst foreign policy disaster in US history, such an experience changes a person's perception of government or should if they have a functioning neuron or two left.
20. You are incredibly offended by this list
Are you pissed off by this list? Maybe there is a reason for that.
Not pissed off, wearied. At one time DU was a refuge from overwhelming right wing thought, this was particularly true for those of us living in heavily Republican areas, I don't personally know any other liberals and not that many who aren't wingnuts.
Bear in mind that it takes a great deal of personal integrity to maintain a political stance when you are surrounded and overwhelmed by people who think you are evil and should just drop dead due to your politics.
Now no longer is DU a refuge for those of us who are further left, the right hates us and the centrists loathe us, they certainly have that in common.
This IS a Democratic/Left Forum just fyi.
Sabrina, proud member of the Counterproductive, Left Wingnut contingency
'The real reason I made this post was to see if I could get maybe a handful of people to reevaluate their behavior so as to be more effective outside the D.U.'
Now that is hilarious, seriously. Have you ever tried stand-up comedy?
I have no one on ignore, not here and never in RL. I love the interaction I have with people both online and in RL.
Especially those who are so fearful of the Left.
I can never understand this fear of Democrats whose ideas have changed this country for the better. But it was always there, and they always won despite the fear and attacks. That is because when you are right about something, and you believe in something, such as Equal Rights eg, another Leftist idea, you just ignore, or laugh at those who so fear those ideas because you know they are wrong.
I am sorry you are not doing very well trying to get a 'handful of people' to come to your way of thinking here. But I do admire your persistence!
Great rebuttal to that other divisive screed.
that only the most far gone BOG types could applaud.
I note that your response OP has doubled the recommends already, despite having less than half the time of being posted. I think we can see which point of view the vast majority of DU endorses. 
- K&R!!!
You win the internets for today, dawg! 
and not a 'Pissing' one?
So, this is some kind of game here on DU? My post is now at the top so my rant MUST be the truth....
A true microcosm of whats wrong with the country!
I ask because on that same thought does Obama also get 'credit' for not renewing the Voting Rights Act?
now as for DADT yes he did strike that down, after it became obvious the military was quite okay with that
but thanks for proving my point
the manipulative, victim-ish bullshit of the thread that spawned it. 
who RECed this post and post it here like was done on 'Top 20 signs you might be a counterproductive left wingnut' or would that be petty?
Just asking.
But I don't need your permission...
I wont post it because it IS a childish thing to do. Worthless like the list on the other post.
Tit-for-tat posts are ALL worthless really. Like the OP here!
Of course, just my opinion.
And a tit-for-tat reply in 3...2...1...
I keep posting on the other 'evil' thread too to keep it getting kicked. Dueling threads..... Thanks for reminding me. Have to head over and read the newest responses from the 'That's Not Me So Shut Up And Stop Posting About Me' crowd.
Maybe you should see my response on #74 about 'pissing contests' though. Has some relevance here.
Off to kick a post.
Keep the home (hair) fires burning!
"Can I make a list of all the posters
who RECed this post and post it here like was done on 'Top 20 signs you might be a counterproductive left wingnut' or would that be petty?
Just asking."
-------------------one minute later---------------------------
"... the problem with making a list of ones enemies within your own community is that it reeks of McCarthyism and Teabagger mentality."
But don't worry, it's a badge of honor if you agree with this OP.
I agree completely with you.
I too was a liberal before I was a Democrat.
Well said!
249th rec on this OP!
Very nicely done.
And looky, you even managed to talk about yourself rather than sling insults at others.
Amazing.
Some guy posted a really long really cool thread that insulted progressives on DU that have not been shy about expressing their views and at times disappointment with President Obama. It didn't make a whole lot of sense but the insults and insinuations were GREAT! And all of my pals and I high fived the thread. All 87 of us. (At this point)
Now some guy has posted a rebuttal and it has been recced by 305 DUers. 
So I am going to cherry pick "counterproductive" from the title of this OP and make a straw man argument from it. Lamenting the fact that 305 DUers are proud to be "counterproductive".
Conclusion. DU is worthless.
That about sum it up?
Oh and full disclosure. If the recs were the other way around. I meaning me, Puglover would find another website to read and post on. Because clearly this one would not be a good fit for me.
a pretty fair question, considering this IS a Democratic Forum and the OP in question was clearly anti Democrats and in return received a diabribe of antagonism from someone I hardly know. It's interesting, to say the least.
Thanks for the excellent interpretation. I agree btw, that if the recs were reversed this would not be a good fit for a whole lot of Democrats.
The posts with lots of replies and few recs are seldom fruitful and the ones with both are a mixed bag but when an OP is not controversial but popular it's usually more positive.
Thanks for your kind words Julie, I hope you have a great day.
far too few left wing-nuts. The reason for this seemingly inexplicable disparity is the veritable plethora of right-wing lies and distortions that are constantly spewed forth in the media and elsewhere on an all too ignert populace.
Awesome rec number. Kick!
RL
