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Zater

(17 posts)
Sun Sep 22, 2013, 02:45 PM Sep 2013

NRA: Get 'homicidal maniacs' off streets

sept. 22, 2013

WASHINGTON (AP) — Greater efforts are needed to identify and lock up mentally ill people who are dangerous, a top National Rifle Association official responding to the recent Washington Navy Yard shootings said Sunday.

The nation's mental health system is "in complete breakdown," resulting in not enough of the mentally ill being committed to psychiatric hospitals, National Rifle Association Executive Vice President Wayne LaPierre told NBC's "Meet the Press."

"If we leave these homicidal maniacs on the street ... they're going to kill," he said. "They need to be committed is what they need to be. If they are committed, they're not at the Naval Yard."


www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2013/09/22/nra-homicidal-maniacs/2849709/
23 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
NRA: Get 'homicidal maniacs' off streets (Original Post) Zater Sep 2013 OP
Let's start with the NRA. PDJane Sep 2013 #1
+1 nt Live and Learn Sep 2013 #2
NRA memebership lists would give us a place to start etherealtruth Sep 2013 #3
Exactly! And you just know that these yahoos listed the number and types TheDebbieDee Sep 2013 #4
GO TO HELL, LaPierre. n/t Jefferson23 Sep 2013 #5
So we just lock up people on the basis of a disability? Bjorn Against Sep 2013 #6
Not in the Bizzarro gun world etherealtruth Sep 2013 #7
Our mental health care system MuseRider Sep 2013 #8
same wavelength (post#9) handmade34 Sep 2013 #10
Nicely done. MuseRider Sep 2013 #15
OK and the way to do that is... handmade34 Sep 2013 #9
Thank you for this. thucythucy Sep 2013 #13
Thank you...I was getting ready to hop on this one big time. BlueJazz Sep 2013 #14
Careful, there, Wayne. Word on the street is that you're nucking futs. MineralMan Sep 2013 #11
Wayne LaPierre, holding forth on mental health? Paladin Sep 2013 #12
99% of them wouldn't be "homicidal maniacs"... PennsylvaniaMatt Sep 2013 #16
No, mentally ill is mentally ill Lee-Lee Sep 2013 #22
I wish we'd stop focusing on mass shootings Recursion Sep 2013 #17
Right. furious Sep 2013 #18
Thucydides' paradox Recursion Sep 2013 #19
Right wingers oppose health care, so.. how exactly do they propose to do that? RedCappedBandit Sep 2013 #20
Let us start with locking up Wayne LaPierre! B Calm Sep 2013 #21
the homicidal maniacs are the NRA BainsBane Oct 2013 #23
 

TheDebbieDee

(11,119 posts)
4. Exactly! And you just know that these yahoos listed the number and types
Sun Sep 22, 2013, 02:51 PM
Sep 2013

of weapons that they owned with the NRA........a list that the Federal Government and Law Enforcement Agencies is forbidden to make.

Bjorn Against

(12,041 posts)
6. So we just lock up people on the basis of a disability?
Sun Sep 22, 2013, 02:55 PM
Sep 2013

Sorry Wayne, but I have a brother with schizophrenia and if you think he needs to be locked up then FUCK YOU. It makes much more sense to make guns less accessable to people who would abuse them than it does to lock up people who committed no crime.

MuseRider

(35,167 posts)
8. Our mental health care system
Sun Sep 22, 2013, 03:00 PM
Sep 2013

used to be pretty good. I think it was Reagan, who I can at least guess that most of these dopes voted and worked for, that started to dismantle it. People used to be able to get their meds, have a place to stay for treatment but now it is the street and many of their lives are in a shambles because there is no longer a place for them to go. I know it was never ideal but there were people who looked after those who were out of the hospitals and half way houses, people who could be called upon to help those who needed help or to watch those who would maybe not take care of themselves.

He says that in such an accusing manner when my guess is he and a good lot of the NRA were right behind Reagan when this started and have supported it all the way to the point where it is now.

Yes, lets do start with their lists. "Homicidal maniacs" would be less likely to kill if they were not armed. So do we get rid of the people or the guns?

I say we take care of people, heavily regulate guns but that is just my not very humble opinion.

handmade34

(23,956 posts)
10. same wavelength (post#9)
Sun Sep 22, 2013, 03:10 PM
Sep 2013

Jimmy Carter had implemented the Mental Health Act just before Reagan became president and destroyed it...

MuseRider

(35,167 posts)
15. Nicely done.
Sun Sep 22, 2013, 10:17 PM
Sep 2013

All the details anyone needs to know.

I was working in health care when Reagan came in and took it all apart. He damaged so much and set us on this horrible, not for patient care path that we just keep adding on to. This country is lost. When the best we can do is get health insurance people to make up our health care plans then we are lost and not recoverable. Reagan started this and there has not been a single thing done to make it better, nothing. Mental health care falls in the same place as regular medical care. It does not seem to matter anymore.

handmade34

(23,956 posts)
9. OK and the way to do that is...
Sun Sep 22, 2013, 03:07 PM
Sep 2013

get rid of the Republicans! much of the problem can be traced back to the politics of Reagan and successive republicans (who worshipped Reagan)... there is so much wrong and disingenuous in what LaPierre and his ilk spout...


http://www.miwatch.org/2011/02/_ronald_reagan_and_mental.html

"...Although not perfect, the Mental Health Systems Act (of 1980) responded to these problems. For the first time since the National Institute of Mental Health became part of NIH in 1949, mental health was front and center in federal policy.

Then came Ronald Reagan. Within a month, the Office of Management Budget announced it would curtail the budget of the National Institute of Mental Health (NIMH), phase out training of clinicians, interrupt research, and eliminate services. Cutbacks to staff followed; chaos ensued. Experienced people left, others remained in government service but were forced into menial jobs. Trained professionals were reassigned to labs to dissect dead rats; science writers were reassigned to typing pools. The Mental Health Systems Act would be disappear. Instead, the Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act (1982) would merge money for mental health programs into block grants, and with fewer dollars going to the states. They had the discretion to use them however they saw fit, often to perpetuate programs already deemed problematic. The pretense for all this was the president's concept of a "new federalism."

"Many of our dreams were gone," wrote Rosalynn Carter in Helping Someone with Mental Illness. "It was a bitter loss."

This could have been enough, but it was not. Pres. Reagan attempted to restrict criteria for determining eligibility for SSI, thought to be a safety-net. Nearly 2.6 million people were receiving insurance because their disability prevented them from working. New evaluations for eligibility led to widespread terminations. Of those who were terminated, about half appealed, and in two-thirds of the cases, administrative law judges reversed the decision. The process took nearly a year, during which time they, and their families, were deprived of promised help..."



http://www.sociology.org/content/vol003.004/thomas.html

"But the policy shift (Reagan's) had hardly anything at all to do with the mentally ill or the practitioners who treated them. It was designed to lower taxes and shift responsibility away from the federal government. Ironically then , the need for reform perceived by those involved and concerned with the mentally ill (practitioners and families) was co-opted by the interests of capital.

Reagan's social policy is best seen as an abdication. Reagan's economic policy was to adjust government regulation so that it favored business once again, and social policy was merely an outgrowth of this larger issue...Reagan worked to lessen the tax load for the rich, and the social policies were meant to match this goal. Business needed a more fav orable corporate climate, and Reagan worked to that end. The coalitions that were necessary for election were either gratified (the elderly) or abandoned (the poor). As for the mentally ill, certain changes that their families and practitioners wanted wer e gained, and the administration pointed this out. Even though these changes came about primarily through state governments and the courts, the Administration would take credit. All in all, business interests were served. Families and doctors were appeased. Patients were forgotten."

 

BlueJazz

(25,348 posts)
14. Thank you...I was getting ready to hop on this one big time.
Sun Sep 22, 2013, 03:23 PM
Sep 2013

The party that killed Mental Health Care is now whining about "Those crazy people"

I can't stand it.

MineralMan

(150,888 posts)
11. Careful, there, Wayne. Word on the street is that you're nucking futs.
Sun Sep 22, 2013, 03:12 PM
Sep 2013

Let's have you get a diagnostic session with a good psychiatrist and we'll talk further.

PennsylvaniaMatt

(966 posts)
16. 99% of them wouldn't be "homicidal maniacs"...
Sun Sep 22, 2013, 10:21 PM
Sep 2013

...if they didn't have access to a gun, which is exactly why we need BACKGROUND CHECKS, something that most NRA MEMBERS SUPPORT!!

It's a lot harder to be a "homicidal maniac" without a gun....possible, but much harder.

Logic is something these people simply don't possess.

 

Lee-Lee

(6,324 posts)
22. No, mentally ill is mentally ill
Mon Sep 23, 2013, 06:43 AM
Sep 2013

They will act out differently, with a different tool if they can't get a gun. Having a gun doesn't change their brain chemistry.

But if someone is willing to kill, and a background check stops them from getting a gun, killing to get a gun in a robbery is not a giant leap to the next step.

I support background checks, but lets not be naive and pretend that it will stop anybody who is truly determined to get a gun from getting it. No more than requiring a prescription keeps people determined to get their hands on painkillers from getting them.

Recursion

(56,582 posts)
17. I wish we'd stop focusing on mass shootings
Mon Sep 23, 2013, 02:02 AM
Sep 2013

Ordinary shootings are much more common, kill a few thousand times as many people, and are very different.

 

furious

(202 posts)
18. Right.
Mon Sep 23, 2013, 02:09 AM
Sep 2013

You know how many mass shootings I've had to investigate? Answer- None.
How many single, double homicides I've had to investigate? Answer-Way more than 1.

BainsBane

(57,631 posts)
23. the homicidal maniacs are the NRA
Wed Oct 2, 2013, 05:24 AM
Oct 2013

and their lackeys. Put them out of business and the country would be far safer. They are the greatest evil to ever befall America. They profit from murder and like it that way. That is why they oppose absolutely every measure to keep guns out of the hands of felons. They don't want violence reduced because it generates sales.

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