This is how these "open carry" morons should be handled

[rdharma]

Men with rifles charged in 'open carry' demonstration at Starbucks

SAN ANTONIO -- An "open carry" demonstration outside of a local Starbucks was broken up by police after passersby complained about the three men and their rifles.

The demonstrators, who posted a video of the entire encounter to YouTube, claim they were within their legal rights.

According to Texas law, this type of conduct isn't illegal as long as the weapon is not loaded.

However, San Antonio police Chief William McManus explained that the gun holder can still be charged with disorderly conduct if anyone, at any point, feels threatened.

http://www.kens5.com/news/Open-Carry-weapon-law-demonstration-leads-to-criminal-charges--221719121.html

[NYC_SKP]

1. Such people are morons, we can all agree.

Lot of that going around.

[NightWatcher]

2. Call the cops every time you see an asshole open carrying

They deserve to be hassled by the cops and probably have a warrant out on them for goat fucking or failure to pay child support

[SQUEE]

5. And exactly how am I supposed to know they are an asshole,

..just wondering
This irrational fear, it is getting funny.. And I remind everyone, before you even start, do not advocate illegal activity.

[NightWatcher]

7. if they've a gun strapped to their side in Starbucks, they're an asshole

I dont understand your line about advocating illegal activity.

FWIW, I've had CCW permits since I was of age to do so. I'm fine with someone carrying a concealed weapon if permitted in a venue that allows it, but to flaunt that you've got a gun, that makes you an asshole. Also, tactically, it's pretty damn dumb to let everyone know what you're carrying.

[Hayduke Bomgarte]

24. +1000

N/T

[Cryptoad]

55. yep

those assholes have a look about them!....easy to spot! Especially the ones with guns!

[GalaxyHunter]

122. just like gang bangers, right?

[uponit7771]

126. Bush, Cheney and crew? Yes, those gang bangers doe have a look about them

[GalaxyHunter]

129. let's just stereotype everyone!!

woo!

[etherealtruth]

97. That sums it up

I certainly have my differences with many gun enthusiasts ... I also have as many commonalities with some gun enthusiasts ... but, this action is designed to intimidate and inflame. Nothing more, if they want to make a statement ... open carry (individually or en masse) to an area ravaged by crime ... not a sub-urban low crime area Starbucks, or public school ... (in truth I don't advocate that, either ... I am not happy when nit wits or ass holes are harmed because they are stupid or ass holes)

[DragonBorn]

115. Question

Does your opinion extend to cops? Off duty cops? Military personnel? or just average citizens who want to exercise their rights?

[blueamy66]

119. my guy is a Sergeant in a prison

When he carries, which is not too often, usually when camping, hiking, etc., the gun is concealed.

Why the need to flaunt that you have a gun? What purpose does that serve? Whether you are an off-duty cop or in the military, or in a position such as my BF?

[DragonBorn]

133. Its not about flaunting

Open Carry is the only legal means to carry in certains areas. Concelled Carry is not legal, or requires extra permitting. Allow for concelled handguns and I'd bet you'd see a significat drop in open carriers.

The only place I would insist that open carry remain an option is if you are out in the wilderness hunting, fishing, or camping.

EDIT - Just wanted to say that prison guards, while they have a reason to carry; have much less so than patrol officers. Patrol officers usually patrol the same areas, and have a greater chance of running into some they arrested previously who has not gone to trial yet, made bail, or been released.

Some officers prefer open carry, as thats how they train to draw their weapon and how they will most likely draw their weapon if they ever have to. Deviations in such a critical "action" are to be avoided. You don't want to have to train two different ways depending on what time / day it is.

[blueamy66]

158. Okay, I see your point.

I'll agree that cops have a good reason to open carry, if they decide that they need to carry while off-duty at all.

BUT, I still believe that the normal Joe is flaunting when he open carries.

[GalaxyHunter]

121. You might think it is pretty damn dumb to let everyone know what you're carrying.

that is your opinion and you are entitled to it.

[Bigmack]

161. "... dumb to let everyone know what you're carrying."...

I certainly agree...

Walk up behind you, smack you in the head, and take your weapon. Use it on you, maybe. Or use it on the other patrons.

Real gun nuts think they scare people with their weapons... some are scared, too... but real predators see someone carrying as just a source for a neat new weapon.

[rurallib]

12. If someone is flaunting a gun (and is not a police person)

I feel threatened. How do I know what that person intends to do with that gun?

I will act for self preservation. Therefore first I call the police and report a threat; second I leave and take whoever is with me.
Even if the guy is not an asshole lots of things can happen when someone carries a gun most if them involve people getting shot. But I believe a carrier is an asshole by definition. Why else would he threaten people by carrying?

BTW - if I get shot, who pays my doctor bills?

[rl6214]

56. And the anti gun nuts say gun owners are scared?

[Logical]

62. Open carry hurts the gun cause. CC does not. Just showing off. n-t

[rl6214]

64. Gotta agree with you there

"Open carry hurts the gun cause"

That's why there needs to be a nationally accepted. CCL.

[Logical]

98. I agree with you on that also. Most people here do not realize CC holders have a lower....

rate of crimes than the average citizen. They are not the problem.

[DrDan]

78. that is correct

one of us needs a weapon to get through the day . . . and one of us doesn't.

Who's full of fear and who is not?

[Decaffeinated]

155. I have a fire extinguisher and jumper cables as well...

Doesn't mean that I have a deep seated fear of fire or dead batteries...

[DrDan]

171. do you carry those into Starbucks when you have the urge for some coffee?

[Decaffeinated]

173. Rarely...

However, I do carry an umbrella around if it looks gray outside....

I don't have a fear of the rain, it's just preparation in case it is needed.

If you want to get picky....

[GreenStormCloud]

180. Monday I carried into McDonald's. Concealed of course.

I went to a lot of places Monday, and carried everywhere.

[Politicalboi]

79. We're not scared, just smart

Why should we trust this gun nut can handle themselves if a lunatic goes for his gun? How do we know if that guy with his gun isn't going to go on a shooting spree? No one should have to trust others capabilities over guns. Keep them locked up at home, shoot your own family.

[rl6214]

144. And you can be the one hiding in a corner, unable to protect your family

[LanternWaste]

110. Confusing concern with "scared" is a wonderfully self-validating way to minimize

Confusing concern with "scared" is a wonderfully self-validating way to minimize the positions of people who may not agree with you, but it contributes little of substance.

So I can see why it's something you might say...

[rl6214]

145. Why it's something I say?

I'm just parroting what the anti gun zealots say.

[AlinPA]

132. Just a note here: A guy walks into a coffee shop carrying an AR-15. Or, another walks in to a

supermarket holding a pistol; or another guy walks in to a movie theater holding a shotgun. Yes, I’d have reason for concern in those open carry situations.

On the other hand, in a western state for example, a guy with a sweaty cowboy hat and levis walks in to a store with a gun strapped in a holster on his hip to buy some food. I have no concerns in this situation. Is that irrational?

[Old and In the Way]

177. I really don't see any differences in your distinction.

They all are, at minimum. commiting symbolic acts of public contempt and anti-socialist behavior. They may be in the minority, but they want their view on law and social order to be the law of the land.

Probably god-fearin, low information voters, too. In other words, a Teapublican.

[rdharma]

14. What illegal activity are you talking about?

[SQUEE]

22. you fool no one who follows your antics.

It is a common call from you to break the law, and around here, you would get a visit from nice men with badges, not the other way around.
.. oh, wait you didn't know?

[rdharma]

26. What law have I advocated violating?

I know the law. And I've never advocated or encouraged anybody to violate the law.

On the other hand, the type of armed intimidation you are advocating (menacing) IS against the law.

[AtheistCrusader]

29. Not in Washington State.

And encouraging people to call the cops in that situation, while not illegal, is wasteful of police resources, and the dispatcher will tell you so.

[lark]

46. How is it a nuisance call?

If someone is carrying a gun in the open, I for one feel threatened and think they are crazy so could do crazy things like shooting me. Therefore, I have every right to call the police. It's not me that's wasting police time, it's the crazies brandishing their rifles.

[AtheistCrusader]

48. Your misunderstanding of what "brandishing" means does not make open carry unlawful.

Open carry is not brandishing. This has been through the courts already. (Other states mileage may vary)

[rdharma]

65. "Menacing" has been clearly established by law.

But thank-you for your "expert legal advice"!

[AtheistCrusader]

66. And you, and that poster, are mis-identifying it.

" We agree. It is not unlawful for a person to responsibly walk down the street with a visible firearm, even if this action would shock some people."

IN THE COURT OF APPEALS OF THE STATE OF WASHINGTON DIVISION II


State vs. Casad.

[rdharma]

67. NOT illegal to report folks who are carrying a weapon with the intent to intimidate.

ie. "Menacing"!

[AtheistCrusader]

68. You are fabricating 'intent to intimidate'.

And you know it.

[rdharma]

72. No. I'm not.

But feel free to test me there, pard!

[AtheistCrusader]

83. In this state police dispatch will tell you, you are wasting their time.

You would have to embellish (fabricate) suspected intent to accomplish otherwise.

In other states, mileage may vary, of course. Here, it's settled case law (Which I specified the appeal court case earlier).

[rdharma]

86. Sure they will!

Not that I don't believe you ....... but I'll call just the same.

We'll see what happens, eh?

[AtheistCrusader]

102. Your tax dollars at work.

[GalaxyHunter]

123. Intent to intimidate... haha

Large muscles could be considered the same way!!


I feel intimidated when I see someone who could knock me out with one punch!!!


I will call the cops on them.

[rdharma]

140. Any act that creates fear and serves no lawful or reasonable purpose......

.... I'll report to law enforcement.

So, if these gun-hugging nutjobs feel the need to prove their "right to OC in public", bring 'em on. I know what action I'll take.

[GalaxyHunter]

150. tying up gov't and police resources.

that's the action you would take.

[rdharma]

154. Not me. The idiot with the gun is the one "taking up" the police resources. n/t

[GalaxyHunter]

157. haha! so it's an automatic reaction for you to call the police on someone not breaking the law?

you are the one calling them making them do something. the other guy didn't do shit.


you are just scared every time you see a gun you have to call the cops
because you just don't know if he is a crazy person who might one day lash out and use it on someone!

[rdharma]

159. Give the needle a bump on your broken record.....

You're repeating yourself.

I've already made it clear to you (post #140) that I will call law enforcement if I see some idiot carrying out any act that creates fear and serves no lawful or reasonable purpose.

Comprendes?

[GalaxyHunter]

160. your fear of anything gun related which causes you to call the cops out of your fear

that anything can happen at any time.


yeah I get it. move on.

[rdharma]

165. You mad, bro? n/t

[GalaxyHunter]

166. nope, just disgusted!

but if you must harass people because you get scared so easily then so be it.



I'm just glad I don't know you in real life.

[Caretha]

91. Fine

I'll waste all the resources I want to when confronted with men who have small penis issues, and thinking threatening visually makes them a big dude.

Yep....I'll do it all day long, so I suggest you never cross my path if you have small penis issues.

[AtheistCrusader]

101. What do you suggest is small about women who choose to carry?

All things being equal...

Men are not the only people who carry firearms.

[Caretha]

148. Good question

and one I've asked myself as I have run into a few in the recent past. They are pathetic, have no common sense and low self esteem. They are what I deem "wannabes". They wannabe important, they wannabe viewed as tough, perhaps better than others. It almost seems to be a status sort of thing with them. Like having a fancy purse, or the right watch etc.

[Maraya1969]

116. If I see a civilian with an assault riffle you bet I'm scared. I'm scared just reading this thread!

These people that love their guns have something very wrong with their brains. If your main intention is advocating your ability to kill someone then you've got a real problem.

People with black belts in martial arts don't go around wearing their belts to impress other people. They are taught not to. Yet they could kill someone with their hands. Gun enthusiasts, on the other hand would probably loose in a bar fight.

I am not at all impressed with any of them. It scares me and I think they are assholes.

[rdharma]

89. You still haven't told us about what law I'm encouraging people to violate!

I don't get it!

[hunter]

19. Only assholes, morons, and criminals "open carry."

And the assholes and morons do it only in places that are absurdly safe, not places where criminals are likely to assault them and take their weapons.

I've got no problem with responsible hunting, target shooting, or even collecting antique guns. (One of my siblings has guns that have been in our family a long time.)

But the assholes with gun fetishes are another story...

It's not "illegal" to challenge, mock, or intimidate them.

They mean to intimidate others by carrying their guns, so hell, throw it back in their face.

"Hey, asshole, get the hell out of here. No Firearms."

Openly carrying a gun around in public is just rude.

I have no respect for these assholes' guns or their gun fetishes.

[hunter]

25. "Tactically unsound?" Which movie or paperback did you get that from?

I'm Wild West.

Let's meet at Starbucks.

Shall I bring my chainsaw? You never know when you might need a chainsaw in Starbucks.... Isn't it my right to carry a chainsaw?

Or how about my hammer? I'm pretty sexy when I've got a hammer hanging on my tool belt.

.
.
.

Um, no, I don't respect gun fetishists. I think they have "issues" that should be resolved before they are allowed to own guns.

[Dyedinthewoolliberal]

73. I feel the same way

more or less. As in 'why do you feel it necessary to wear your gun on display?'

[Skidmore]

30. That is exactly the point--none of us know and I

believe they carry this way not to make a political statement but to intimidate everyone else into silence.

[AtheistCrusader]

53. Well, it doesn't seem to be working?!

If that's actually the intent, it sorta backfired. (And I have been warning OC advocates of this for a long time now)

[TheCowsCameHome]

50. Open carrying is pretty good clue.

[Caretha]

90. How are you to know it they are an asshole?

Same way as you know they are a goat fucker....Easy - only really stupid people do that shit.

[Iggo]

143. ^^^ I love this answer!

[GalaxyHunter]

120. stereotype much??

[uponit7771]

124. +1

[JEFF9K]

3. Who wants to be in a coffee shop with angry, dangerous morons?

[rdharma]

15. I don't think Starbucks appreciated the gun-humpers' "Starbucks Apppreciation Day"!

In fact, their CEO recently made that pretty darn clear in his public statement.

[AtheistCrusader]

49. SB didn't appreciate being made the battleground for an issue that belongs in the legislature.

SB follows local laws, that's why you can smoke in a Starbucks in Amsterdam, and not in Washington State.

SB would probably similarly not appreciate being the battleground for a anti-smoking in public campaign in Amsterdam.

[GalaxyHunter]

125. how do you know they are angry or dangerous?

[onehandle]

4. In inappropriate situations, call the cops when you see a gun not in the hands of a LEO.

Are they hunting in the woods? Coming out of a gun shop? At a shooting range?

Fine.

Elsewhere, call the cops.


Gun carrying is not normal.

[rdharma]

9. Gun carrying certainly is not normal in public places.......

Especially when carried with the purpose of intimidating others.

[Agschmid]

11. +1

[Control-Z]

20. Is there any other purpose

then to intimidate others?

[spin]

81. That depends on where you live. ...

Open carry is legal in states like Ohio and Pennsylvania but is fairly uncommon. In some Western states open carry is not uncommon and attracts little attention. Oddly Florida is not an open carry state and in most situations a license is required to carry concealed,

State laws on open carry vary widely. Six states and the District of Columbia fully prohibit the open carry of handguns. On the other side, twelve states permit open carry of a handgun without requiring the citizen to apply for any permit or license. Thirteen states require some form of permit (often the same permit as allows a person to carry concealed), and the remaining seventeen states, though not prohibiting the practice in general, do not preempt local laws or law enforcement policies, and/or have significant restrictions on the practice, such as prohibiting it within the boundaries of an incorporated urban area. Illinois allows open carry on private property only.[36]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_carry_in_the_United_States

People who open carry in states where it is legal but uncommon are probably looking for someone to call the police so that they can assert their "legal rights." Therefore calling the police may mean that you are playing their game. I probably would simply ignore them unless I had good reason to feel that they were up to no good.

[Decaffeinated]

167. It's normal in many places in America....

... declaring it not to be so doesn't wish that fact into existence.

[onehandle]

168. Really?

[Decaffeinated]

169. Truly...

[Robb]

6. I support these guys, and all open-carry demonstrators.

Keep it up, idiots.

[Scuba]

8. Snort.

[rdharma]

10. You've got a point...... they're "shooting themselves in the foot" so to speak.....

Pardon the pun.

[ileus]

13. Always conceal carry in public.

Leave OC for outdoor type events; hunting, fishing, hiking....ect





If you do decide to OC in public then buy a quality leather holster, and dress nice.








and leave the long guns at home...don't be a dumbass just because you can.

[hunter]

27. This is more my style...

[rdharma]

28. Nice secure holster!

Oh, you got that photo from a company that sells gun-hugger equipment.

Thanks for the sales promo!

[ileus]

51. Not a bad company to order stuff from.

The few times I've ordered from them the shipping was quick and pricing was fair.

They don't appear to carry the Tagua holster I purchased last time I ordered. (two or three years back)

[msongs]

16. the point of "open carry"= intimidation and instill fear (an appropriate response to gun nuts) nt

[Skittles]

17. so we're supposed to guess if paranoid gun humping cowards loaded their weapons

riiiiiiiiiiiiiiight

[rdharma]

31. And the police are too!

A guy with an AR-15 strapped on his back at Starbucks or the shopping mall store. ......... Gee, looks normal to me!

[Skittles]

36. I was in a mall where a guy was walking with a big axe

turns out he was a maintenance worker who had worked on one store project and was traveling across the mall to another project - but security told me and several other anxious folk they received numerous calls from scared shoppers......it's not easy to understand intent

[rdharma]

41. Not easy to understand intent?

Oh, yes it is. Look at the videos of these AR brandishing "protestors".

[Skittles]

44. well I know they are cowards who are trying to intimidate

Last edited Mon Sep 23, 2013, 08:33 PM - Edit history (1)

THAT much is obvious

[spin]

85. In many open carry states, a person can open carry a loaded firearm. ...

It really doesn't make a hell of a lot of sense to carry an unloaded firearm for self defense.

In my state I can't open carry and have to have a license to carry concealed. When I carry, my handgun is fully loaded and a round is in the chamber if I am carrying a semi-automatic handgun. Of course I always use a quality holster designed for the firearm in order to insure that it is safe.

[quinnox]

18. These gun nuts worship guns to the point that they have to show them off in public

They have an infantile child mentality, and they should be arrested and harassed by all citizens when they try and put on a spectacle of themselves.

[leveymg]

21. This is how most people feel when they are confronted by open carry demonstrators:

If it isn't blunt intimidation, I don't know what is.

[doc03]

32. Saw a guy maybe in his twenties today standing outside the mall with a open carry

Glock on his side. The mall has sign when you enter that says no firearms except as authorized by federal or state law.

[rdharma]

33. Sure you did!

No business sign would have that language.

[doc03]

34. It absolutly does say exactly that. I have been wondering since I have a CCW permit if I

would be considered authorised buy federal or state law to have a firearm.

[rdharma]

35. I respectfully call BS!

And you know why!

Why this fabrication? Is that all you've got?

[doc03]

37. Well it is at the Ohio Valley Mall in St. Clairsville, Ohio. Why wouldn't believe they have

such a sign anyway? It is posted on the entrance and they also have board with mall rules and it is there too.

[rdharma]

38. So your CCW permit was issued by.............?

[doc03]

39. The state of Ohio and the sign says no firearms except as authorised

by state or federal law.

[spin]

88. It might help if you downloaded Ohio's document dealing with concealed carry. ...

http://www.ohioattorneygeneral.gov/Files/Publications/Publications-for-Law-Enforcement/Concealed-Carry-Publications/2011-Concealed-Carry-Laws-Manual.aspx

You'll find info on restricted areas for concealed carry in this publication. Since I am not an attorney and I don't play one on TV or DU, I will avoid offering you any advise on this subject.

[doc03]

43. The guy outside was on mall property, I wouldn't be suprised if he was asked

to leave. I have seen them stop people from taking pictures on mall property.

[rdharma]

45. Open carry?

Really?

If you are concealed carry, you should know your area of allowed carry in your state. If you don't, you have a problem.

[doc03]

47. Well I know not in the bank or a bar but when a sign says unless authorised by state or

federal law? I never feel the need to walk around armed anyway but am curious about that sign. I can carry pretty much anywhere except in a bar or where
they are prohibited but I am authorized by state law to carry so I should be legal at that mall. If it is concealed they wouldn't know anyway unless I brandished my weopon.

[Skittles]

40. ???

those signs are common

[AtheistCrusader]

52. Language varies from state to state.

One of those 'If I haven't seen it, it doesn't exist' things I guess.

(Not you)

[rdharma]

71. Show me one!

With that language.

[NickB79]

69. Here's the sign the Mall of America puts up

Very common signage here in Minnesota. We have both conceal-carry and open-carry (for the idiots who want to).

[rdharma]

70. Thank-you, Nick!

I'm waiting for doc03 to post the sign he says he saw.

I have a problem with the language he claims the sign contains.

[X_Digger]

75. Here's one for Ohio

[rdharma]

82. You can't bring guns onto private property where notified.

No. CCW permit does not authorize you to carry on this privately owned premises.

You boys need some better "shit house" lawyers....who can READ!

[doc03]

94. Unless otherwise authorized by law. (I am authotized by the state of

Ohio law to carry a concealed carry weopon.)

[X_Digger]

96. The language doesn't matter for Ohio.

http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/2923.126v1

Except as provided in division (C)(3)(b) of this section, the owner or person in control of private land or premises, and a private person or entity leasing land or premises owned by the state, the United States, or a political subdivision of the state or the United States, may post a sign in a conspicuous location on that land or on those premises prohibiting persons from carrying firearms or concealed firearms on or onto that land or those premises.

The 'otherwise authorized by law' bit is superfluous to CHL holders. A simple gunbusters sign would suffice.

[rdharma]

99. You're authorized to carry on the private property of a business posting this notice?

Really?

[X_Digger]

95. Kindly keep your fingers out of my mouth, thanks.

Please quote me saying what you *think* I said, yes?

I just noticed that NickB79's sign didn't match the state in question (Ohio, per post #37).

In Texas, this sign does not apply to me- you see it on convenience stores all the time-



(I am licensed.)

It takes one of two specific signs to constitute notice here:

This one, for establishments that make 51% of their revenue from the sales of alcohol for on-site consumption-



Or this one:

[Spitfire of ATJ]

42. "as long as the weapon is not loaded."

I can hear them now claiming "Of course it's loaded. An unloaded gun is useless".

Meanwhile, I'm the type to figure if the gun is unloaded that means only one thing: water balloon.

[AtheistCrusader]

54. Water balloon?

[Spitfire of ATJ]

59. Not necessarily filled with water.

[AtheistCrusader]

61. Am I to presume you mean hitting the person with a water balloon?

[Spitfire of ATJ]

76. Would I do that?

[AtheistCrusader]

84. What else would you do with it?

I am concerned because, while I have a CPL, and do not carry openly, an assault like you seem to be suggesting would actually hurt the case of 'common sense gun control', as variously defined in places here and there. It's a tactic the far right uses, even in instigation, to provoke 'bad union thug' movies for youtube and shit like that.

I would personally hope that 'we' collectively take the high road here. Assaulting someone is not helpful, whatever your position on gun control. (And yes a water balloon is assault)

(Registration is common sense to me, but others may not agree)

[Spitfire of ATJ]

87. Ignoring this crap just encourages them....

It's gotten to the point where they openly say things that would have gotten them a punch in the face just a few years ago.

Someone recently drove by a friend and called her a ni**er. She had never heard that in her entire life and she's 37.

[AtheistCrusader]

100. I don't really advocate physical violence over ANY words.

Not even over your second example, as bad as it is.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

103. These guys want an excuse to murder.

[AtheistCrusader]

104. Assaulting one could provide the opportunity they are looking for.

A passerby with no familiarity with that risk might read your initial post, and take you up on it, with tragic consequences.


Sunlight is a great disinfectant. let them be assholes in public. The marginalization will cure it. If they do something threatening, by all means, report it to the Police. (Actual brandishing for instance, or menacing)

[Spitfire of ATJ]

105. Hmmm...

How about a whoopie cushion?

[AtheistCrusader]

107. Much safer. Or tell them what you think of them.

I would just avoid anything that might be considered threatening or physical contact.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

113. Funny how it's okay for them to threaten.

[AtheistCrusader]

114. It's legal in most states to openly carry a firearm in that manner.

It is not legal to hit someone with a water balloon in that manner.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

117. Some people have ZERO sense of humor.

[AtheistCrusader]

118. 100% agree. :)

[HockeyMom]

57. Personally, I prefer open carry as a "gun grabber"

If I can see you, I can stay far, far away from you. You are sneaky with your CCW. I, as not a criminal, cannot see who you are, and exercise my right to avoid you. WHY should I have to associate with you? Choice runs both ways, gunners.

[AtheistCrusader]

58. Well, it would be nice if the "gun grabber's" were all on the same page about that.

I carry concealed. No muss, no fuss, no one need be uncomfortable about it. There are people in this thread visibly upset by the concept of open carry. (I do not advocate for open carry, myself, unless outdoors engaged in a related outdoor pursuit, like hunting, or hiking, etc.)

I do ask people permission before entering their homes though. Private property vs. public spaces and all that.

[hunter]

93. I'm not too keen on concealed carry either.

"Concealed" is not concealed to anyone with a sharp eye.

I've never understood the appeal of concealed carry. Any "bad guys" always own the element of surprise.

Me? I've been in some rough situations, but never one where me having a gun would have made things better. Even when the bad guys had guns.

Guns only seem useful for groups of law enforcement officers or soldiers who are EXPECTING trouble.

Otherwise they seem to make things worse, leaving awful, sometimes tragic, messes to clean up.

Plenty of people have been shot by their own guns, even cops.

Plenty of cops and soldiers have shot people who did not deserve to be shot.

My crazy grandma could be trusted with a gun at one time. She could bring home dinner. When my grandma started to get really really strange (she was never not-strange) my mom took away her guns, at least the guns she could find. My grandma was a hoarder, a bag-lady with a house she owned and a decent retirement income. Eventually the police and paramedics had to remove her from her home because she was a danger to herself and others. It was quite a scene, she held off the police and paramedics for a few hours, screaming, cussing, throwing things, kicking, hitting, and biting before they got her strapped down tight on the gurney and sedated. Little old lady gone berserker! She might have escaped too, if only she'd had a horse.

A few weeks later my mom was sorting through my grandma's crap and found more guns.

If my grandma had gone for these guns I'm sure she'd have been shot and killed by the police. The police don't like to be shot at. Seems my grandma still had some common sense, even as her life as a fully independent adult was ending. She survived to see me married. My wife got to hear a couple of her stories about dogs and horses she'd known on the family homestead as a teenager, or World War Two sailors. Grandma was a party-country-girl-shipyard-welder during the war who started out with my grandpa running away to California to put shoes on horses for the Irvine Company.

I've got some bloodier more horrible stories, but I've also got some funny stories about fools and their guns who were soon parted.

[GreenStormCloud]

111. Bad guys do NOT always own the element of surprise.

The only own it if you allow them to. If you are alert to the situation around you, and know what to look for, you can spot a bad situation developing before it happens.

[hunter]

178. When the only tool you've got is a hammer...

If you've got that kind of situational awareness going on you don't need a gun. Really, you don't. Pulling out a gun just makes you a target.

The situations where a lone good guy "wins" are so rare we see them on the news. It's also a common movie fantasy. Usually it's the other way around. "Bad guys" don't have any moral inhibitions against shooting good guys, and they tend to be either suicidal or not have a clear understanding of the consequences. That's why they are "bad guys."

Here's a sad-funny story:

There was a gangster who'd been shot by the police when he was a minor. The bullet damaged his spine so he was a paraplegic in a wheelchair.

That didn't deter him from his life of crime, it only made him an adult gangster with a heroin addiction, which is very, very sad. His story might have ended better in a true first world nation.

Anyways, one of my siblings was working in fast food place when this guy rolled in with a gun. Company policy was to give the guy the cash. They did, emptying all the registers.

In his hurry to get away the guy fell off the curb and a bus ran over the hand he was holding his gun in. A good Samaritan kicked the gun away, dragged the robber out of the street and called 911.

I know people who work in hospital Emergency Rooms. Most of their gun stories are about stupid people. They can be very sad stories where innocent people died, but they all start with someone who shouldn't have had a gun.

[GreenStormCloud]

179. My wife is alive because she was armed when she needed to be.

No shots fired. Would be mugger discovered the the little old lady that he was going to force to open the office door was able to end his life with a twitch of her finger. He turned and ran- very fast. My wife then entered the combination and went into the office, first to arrive of the day, every day. If he had forced her to open the door he would have had to silence her while he robbed the place. It is doubtful, due to her age, that she would have survived being silenced. It never made the papers because it wasn't news. No crime was committed because the crime was stopped.

Wife has ashma so pepper spray can be fatal to her so she doesn't carry it.

But according to you, because there was no shooting, it wasn't a defensive gun use.

[hunter]

181. I've been in some rough situations.

Got really bad asthma too

I'm going to take your story as a validation of my hypothesis.

[spin]

80. Since you live in Florida, if you do see a person openly carrying a firearm in public ...

just consider calling the police. Open carry, with only a few exceptions, is illegal in Florida. The exceptions are that you can legally open carry while hunting, fishing and camping and you may encounter store owners or employees who open carry while at work. It's fairly common for employees of gun stores to open carry in their shop and I remember a newspaper and book store owner in Tampa who open carried the same snub nosed S&W revolver on his belt that I carry concealed.

So gun owners who are abiding with the law in Florida are largely limited to licensed concealed carry. I can get in a lot of trouble with the authorities if I openly carry my handgun or purposefully flash it to impress someone.

There is a movement to pass open carry in Florida. If the law changes, I will consider open carrying my handgun. I doubt that I will often do so as I simply don't like scaring paranoid people. You may feel that I am "sneaky" but I would suggest that I am just considerate and have no wish to scare paranoid people who either have little knowledge of firearms or possibly a justifiable hatred of them. In my personal opinion those gun owners who go out of their way to demonstrate their right to open carry and intimidate other citizens at places like Starbucks are assholes.

[Fantastic Anarchist]

63. Dumbasses ...

They called the wrong city police station and the wrong Starbucks.

Hilarious nitwits with guns.

[RetroLounge]

74. Call the cops EVERY FUCKING TIME

Assholes

RL

[rdharma]

92. Not only are they ass holes........

......but they're going out of their way to be......ass-holes!

[RetroLounge]

142. Yup.

Tickets, arrests, harass the shit out of them.

RL

[GalaxyHunter]

130. yeah, take the cops away from domestic violence calls..

[RetroLounge]

141. Because yes, that's all they will be doing.

RL

[GalaxyHunter]

151. ...

[RetroLounge]

183. That must seem somehow meaningful to you?

Here's one for you.

_!_

RL

[jpak]

77. Open carry douchebags can suck it.

yup

[gopiscrap]

106. Interesting

[Proud Liberal Dem]

108. What they don't understand very well

is that just because something may technically be "legal", that doesn't mean that it is necessarily a good idea.

[uponit7771]

128. +1

[GalaxyHunter]

131. if only the world would only do things that are "good ideas"

[Tommy_Carcetti]

109. People who go into stores open carrying or walk near schools....

...need to be charged with disorderly conduct, even in a permissive open carry state. I'm sorry, there's no excuse for that behavior except to alarm.

And frankly, anyone who decides to walk around in public with an AR-15 or similar semi-automatic assault rifle needs to be charged with disorderly conduct, no questions asked, regardless of the situation.

[Boom Sound 416]

112. More bs from the see no evil crowd

[GalaxyHunter]

127. If the law says you can open carry then you can open carry!

you can say you feel intimidated or threatened, but I know from what I have read here you just want to see them in trouble and have the cops after them for doing something legal.

[rdharma]

134. Menacing and disturbing the peace aren't legal. n/t

[GalaxyHunter]

135. where does it state that open carry is menacing and disturbing the peace?

if that were the case I would find it hard for open carry to be legal.

[rdharma]

136. I'd suggest you check the statutes on menacing and disturbing the peace in your state. n/t

[AlinPA]

146. Please read my post #139. It depends on how it is being carried.

[AlinPA]

139. Just a note here: (I'm repeating myself)

A guy walks into a coffee shop carrying an AR-15. Or, another walks in to a supermarket holding a pistol; or another guy walks in to a movie theater holding a shotgun. Yes, I’d have reason for feeling threatened in those open carry situations.

On the other hand, in a western state for example, a guy with a sweaty cowboy hat and levis walks in to a store with a gun strapped in a holster on his hip to buy some food. I have no concerns in this situation. (All four guns are carried in the open.) Is that irrational? Does this sound like I'm only interested in "seeing them in trouble"?

Bullshit.

[GalaxyHunter]

149. get off your high horse and quit being afraid!

[AlinPA]

172. Right. Who'd be threatened by a guy walking into a theater holding a shotgun? Or holding a

pistol, or AR-15?

[GalaxyHunter]

175. I didn't talk shit or make fun of the guy, why should I feel threatened?

I would feel more threatened by the person who is trying to pick a fight with me.


You assume bad things can only happen.

[AlinPA]

176. A guy walks in to a public place toting a shotgun or AR-15 and it is not a threatening situation?

In this day and age? Foolishness.

[GalaxyHunter]

182. that is your opinion and you are entitled to it.

[GalaxyHunter]

153. under the eye of the law each of those situations are the same.

you just think it's ok for a "cowboy" to wear his six shooter instead of the guy who has an AR on his back.

[AlinPA]

170. I'm not saying they are strapped on his back or holstered, rather they are carrying them in their

hands. They are all carrying.

[GalaxyHunter]

174. which is legal.

[MyOwnPeace]

137. WOW!

All of these comments and no one even mentioned that the wacko governor of the state of Texas will probably be calling the legislature back into session (if they're not already) to pass a new law to get rid of the crazy-azz lib'ral police chiefs who are messin' with the right to be packin'!

[rdharma]

138. Oops!

I knew I forgot something!

[NickB79]

147. I'll never understand the desire to open-carry

I'm fine with those who want to conceal-carry; I have several coworkers who have their CCW permits and do carry on occasion. Personally I have no desire to do so, but to each their own. I keep my firearms use to the shooting range, the public hunting lands, and my backyard (I live in the country).

HOWEVER, the idea of open-carry is truly bizarre to me. I witnessed a person open-carrying at a local Lee Ann Chin restaurant this summer, and a thought occurred to me: if someone burst into the restaurant at that moment, intent on committing a mass shooting, that idiot would be target #1 because of his visible weapon. A person could actually be making themselves MORE of a target by openly displaying their handgun.

[Iggo]

163. "Look at my gun."

There.

Now you understand it.

[Lizzie Poppet]

164. Neither do I.

As a "statement," it's counterproductive, IMO. And as you point out, it's not tactically sound. Why sacrifice the element of surprise against an assailant?

[GreenStormCloud]

184. There are very few places/times where I would want to OC.

If I were using a walk-up ATM at night I might (depending upon other factors also) want to be able to tuck my shirt behind the gun, exposing it, so that any mugger who would be evaluating me as a target would know that I would not be an easy victim.

Otherwise, I prefer CC and not making a scene.

[Decaffeinated]

152. Good luck with that....

I'll bet all charges are dropped and they are back in a week or two to prove their point.

[rdharma]

156. We'll see!

I'll still get the police to talk with such an armed psycho displaying in public.

[Iggo]

162. And good luck to you, as well.

Welcome to DU.

[Vashta Nerada]

185. I'm going to call the cops on anyone I see openly carrying a gun.

I feel threatened whenever I see it.