Why can't we hate the rich?

[Taverner]

I do

I realize they are the problem

Yeah, you have your occasional good rich guy, but they are the exception, not the norm

I think Lenin was onto something by abolishing inheritances

[Nye Bevan]

1. OK. Let's start with Alan Grayson.

Grayson was ranked as the 11th-wealthiest member of Congress in 2010, based on financial disclosure forms with a minimum net worth of $31.41 million, according to Roll Call.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alan_Grayson

[DrDan]

4. then on to Warren Buffett

definitely worth hating

[ForgoTheConsequence]

28. Buffett is worth hating.

His companies treat their employees like garbage. Not to mention the amount of outsourcing that asshole has done.

[DrDan]

37. hate away then

[Nuclear Unicorn]

50. I call dibs on the Bloomberg pinata.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

41. How about John Kerry?

Oh wait, DU already hates the shit out of him!

[Vox Moi]

2. Yes, We Can!

Last edited Tue Sep 24, 2013, 01:27 PM - Edit history (1)

... but it's not very productive to hate people.
We can hate policy, we can hate elitism, we can hate privilege but being poor and hating rich people is kinda like being rich and hating the poor.
I hate is the tendency in our culture to see wealth (or the lack of it) as a sign of moral virtue (or lack of it).
I hate the vernacular that is associated with the social and cultural gap between rich and poor such as 'welfare queen' and 'job creator'.

Thorensen Veblen might agree that social stability in the face of vast inequality is based on the fact that most poor people don't want equality: they want to be rich too. The poor want to preserve the elite class and in doing so, preserve the hope of joining it.

[handmade34]

3. can't say I hate the rich...

I hate the system that made them obscenely rich... and I am really angry at all of us who allow it to continue...

[Tikki]

10. The system so poorly understood by the poor that demonize themselves rather than...

learn and take action on what they can do to afford change.



Tikki

[PowerToThePeople]

30. this.

[socialist_n_TN]

63. Yep. Don't hate the playa, hate the game..........

Except the players are sometimes well worthy of hatred. Ultimately though, it doesn't do anything to change the game. it's another distraction to focus on people rather than the system.

[Donald Ian Rankin]

5. You can - it's a free country. It's just that it's stupid to do so. N.T.

[leftstreet]

6. Foolish waste of time. Hate the system instead

[PotatoChip]

9. +1. Exactly! (nt)

[Egalitarian Thug]

46. Are you considering that it is those rich people that deliberately use the system

to enrich themselves understanding that they are hurting others, but do it anyway?

The system is the tool. Without the hand to use it, it is nothing. Evil is as evil does.

Like taking candy from a baby, is the baby the problem, or is it the willingness of the thief to take the candy?

[Iggo]

7. Who says we can't?

They obviously never met me.

[jsr]

8. The problem is they truly hate us

[HughBeaumont]

62. I don't think it's love or hate, because that would imply it's personal.

I believe it's something far worse . . . it's that they just don't CARE one way or another. We mean as much to them as a stepped-on ant in their lives.

[polichick]

11. The American Dream story is set up for people to aspire...

to be rich, and who wants to think of him or herself as a bad guy?

[csziggy]

53. True

“Socialism never took root in America because the poor see themselves not as an exploited proletariat but as temporarily embarrassed millionaires.”
-- John Steinbeck

[polichick]

54. Love that quote! The challenge for a populist leader is to...

get the people to identify with each other more than they identify with their oppressors.

Divide and conquer tactics used by our one-corporate-party-with-two-faces work. Even with all that's happened, Dems identify more with the corporate tools associated with beloved politicians like Clinton and Obama than they do rank and file Republican voters.

[Hydepier]

12. There will always be rich people, no matter what system of

government a society chooses.

The question and issue becomes one of degree, and how a society and a system of government can most effectively encourage and enforce a mechanism for the rich to contribute what the society determines is a fair portion of that wealth to the common need of the society as a whole.

Focusing our negative mental energy upon the rich folks themselves traps us from finding more equitable and just economic solutions we face as a society. As with any despised group of people, drug dealers, gangsters, con men, gun-huggers, cigarette smokers, focusing too much upon the inidividuals impedes our quest for reasonable and efficient solutions to the problems they all have created for the rest of us.

[The2ndWheel]

13. Civilization is little more than a resource hoarding process

It's not just the rich, and it's not just capitalism.

[cali]

14. hate who you wish to hate

another content free random thought OP from you.

[Fantastic Anarchist]

21. I can't speak for Taverner ...

... but knowing his/her posts in the past, he/she may have meant something similar along the lines of what I've posted:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=3722010

Of course, he/she may correct me if I'm wrong.

[Dreamer Tatum]

15. I'm sure they are refreshing this thread, horrified at who else might hate them.

Dude, no one gives a fuck who you hate.

[Democracyinkind]

55. Historically, the rich are very concerned about the hoi polloi's hate.

Keeping it in check is why they invented politics.

[HughBeaumont]

64. Historically . . .

. . . but nowadays, with "the game" rigged (purchased) and beyond repair, I think not so much.

[rrneck]

16. We aren't hungry enough. nt

[DrDan]

17. is a net worth of $12 million considered "rich"?

then be sure to include the Obamas in your hate fest.

[Fantastic Anarchist]

18. I hate the system that allows them to be uber-rich at the expense of others.

If we had a more egalitarian system, where people are free from need and want, there would be no antagonism towards the more wealthy.

It's the fact that we have literally people with 7 homes, of which they can't be possibly in use 100%, and others are sleeping on park benches, that creates and cultivates the "class antagonisms" which exists in societies like ours. No one will hate the rich for the sake of being rich. People despise the rich in context of their position relative to the sea of poverty that exists all around them. They hate the rich that, unfortunately with wealth comes political power, and when they use that power to make themselves wealthier at the expense of those already scrounging for bread. That's the antagonisms that will remain in existence until there is reform or revolution.

When 400 people own more wealth than 150 million people combined, the result, of course will be, envy and hate. As a result, you have a deformed society.

[el_bryanto]

19. "If we can't do it with love in our hearts then children we ain't got no right to do it at all"

Crosby Stills Nash and Young - America's Children.

Bryant

[GalaxyHunter]

20. no one says you can't. I mean, they probably hate you as well, so why not hate back?

[Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin]

22. I don't hate the rich per se

In fact I respect those who started with little and were able to succeed. What I don't respect are those who have wealth and are willing to shit on others who have less in the pursuit of more wealth.

I tend to agree with you per inheritances. Nothing worse then the entitled who've never had to work for anything. Yes I'm talking about you Koch bros.

Yet there are those like the Kennedys and the Roosevelts which are wealthy families responsible for many of the progressive laws and programs in this country. As such I'd back away from a blanket statement such as "hate the rich."

[darkangel218]

23. There are alot of "rich" people who are amazing human beigns,

And give a lot to charity.

I personally couldnt hate anyone based on how big their bank account is. That would be ignorance, imho.

But you go ahead and do whatever you want.

[stevenleser]

24. Occupy had the right philosophy. "We don't hate the 1%. We hate those who advocate for

the 1% at the expense of the 99%"

Hating Alan Grayson and Warren Buffet makes no sense.

[Dawson Leery]

44. +1

[graywarrior]

25. Steve Tyler says we can Eat The Rich

[oberliner]

26. What a seriously messed up question

In every respect.

[Arkana]

27. Because it's not being rich that makes you a bad person.

It's your choices, far more than your lot in life, that determine who you are. Would you really condemn FDR and JFK just because they were born rich?

[NoOneMan]

52. Choices?

How can you talk of people being born rich and of choices in the same sentence? People are also born poor and fall into depravity. People are born with genetic predispositions for goal attainment as well as sociopathy. We're all just actors here.

If people condemn it is the system that persuaded them to do so. You can change their mind perhaps, if you are so inclined, but just do not condemn condemning. Its only natural

[MineralMan]

29. I hadn't hear that it wasn't allowed.

They're not a protected group, last I heard.

I'm not sure what hatred gets you, but be my guest.

[YoungDemCA]

38. "They're not a protected group." Right!

They only own most of the wealth and resources in America, not to mention that such patriotic job-creators like the Koch Brothers (to name a few) can literally buy elections these days; or, on the other hand, "liberal" rich people like Bill Gates, Warren Buffett, and Mark Zuckerberg donate significant sums of money to the education privatization "movement."

Rich people have the options of living in the best neighborhoods-some of them in MULTIPLE best neighborhoods! Their kids go to the best schools, disproportionately get into elite colleges and universities, which allows them much greater access to high-paying jobs in the businesses and corporations that their parents and other rich people own and manage.

Rich people have gotten their taxes lowered time and again; meanwhile, the share of taxes paid by the rest of society (the non-rich) has gone up, if you include payroll taxes, sales taxes, etc. Rich people are doing better than ever, enjoying being on the winning side of record-breaking income and wealth inequality, while the rest of us are on the losing side!

Let's not forget the wars that rich people profit off of-Halliburton, Xe, Raytheon, etc., you can bet that those companies are controlled by very rich people! They've made a lot of money in recent years.

But yes, other than that, rich people aren't protected by anything or anyone, and I can't imagine why anyone would even mildly dislike them, let alone hate them!

[MineralMan]

39. "Protected group" is a legal term.

For example, people with disabilities are a protected group. Rich assholes aren't. They need no protection. They can afford their own.

[YoungDemCA]

40. True

[Rex]

31. Who said you cannot? Hate them!

Free country etc..

[Orsino]

32. We not only can, it is inevitable that we will.

And if they are not kept at arm's length from political influence, they make inevitable another French Revolution.

We should help them avoid this course.

[GeorgeGist]

33. Same reason we can't hate ...

pedophiles, terrorists and war criminals.

[Downtown Hound]

34. I don't hate all the rich.

Just most of 'em. Heh heh.

[NuclearDem]

35. Because if the lower classes fight back, THEN it's class warfare.

[laundry_queen]

36. I don't hate some of the rich anymore than I would hate a hoarder or an addict

a good portion of them have these issues, I'm sure of it. It's a more socially accepted form of OCD type illnesses. Think about an OCD clean freak. More acceptable socially than a hoarder right? Hoarding money is ok, and even seen as somehow virtuous. I disagree with society, but I can't hate these kinds of rich people.

However, mix that in with psychopathy or sociopathy, and a total disregard for those less fortunate and I would have no problems conjuring up a little hate. Unfortunately, I think the vast majority reside in this category, instead of the former one.

But it's not a productive hate. I hate Kevin O'Leary (pompous Canadian rich asshole who is proud of being a greedy pig) with the burning heat of a thousand suns, but it does nothing but make my stomach sick, so I try to avoid him on TV. Instead I smile every time I vote NDP knowing how much that pisses him off.

I think it's better to concentrate on designing a system where people are fed, have access to health care, schooling, shelter than it is to spend my time hating the rich. I'd prefer a more progressive form of taxation, with the highest rates at the top return to 50% or more, not because I hate rich people, but because I think they should be forced to give back to the society that helped create them, whether they admit it or not.

BTW, I don't think it's just 'the rich'. It's the system that enables them that is the problem. That's where we need to focus our attention.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

42. Do you hate the person who has a dollar more than you do? nt

[Seeking Serenity]

43. You can. Knock yourself out.

I choose not to, and won't, since hate only eats away at the hater from within like a cancer while having no measurable affect of the target of such hate.

[Throd]

45. I actually would like to be rich myself. Feel free to hate me.

Oh, and fuck Lenin, I would like to leave something to my daughters after I croak.

[Democracyinkind]

56. One of Steinbeck's embarrassed millionaires, I suppose...

[HughBeaumont]

65. I'm pretty sure no thinking person is suggesting Lenin's plan as a modern economic ideal.

Maybe Tony Benn's?

[HughBeaumont]

47. You know who I * can't stand* more than the wealthy?

The useful poor-to-middle class idiots who identify with the wants and needs of the wealthy rather than those of their own lot. It's pretty much how the wealthy are continually allowed to game the system . . . acceptance laced with Horatio Alger elixir.

"Don't hate the playah, hate the game." Uh, the game created its own ubiquitous "house" of players that always wins.

[hunter]

48. I think the uber-wealthy ought to be taxed out of existence.

If they don't like that they can leave and we can sell their stuff.

There ought to be an income, some multiple of minimum wage, where taxes exceed 90%, and there ought to be some wealth where inheritance taxes exceed 90%.

[cleanhippie]

49. I don't hate the rich, I hate the greedy.

Greed is the problem, not wealth.

[NoOneMan]

51. I don't really care anymore

Honestly I don't. Why spend time in life with hate? I'd rather go enjoy a hike

Humans are a tragic species. The rich are created by circumstances and unpersuadable momentum as much as anyone else

[HughBeaumont]

61. The point is that many of them don't believe they are.

Whereas most of us know WE are.

[Mr.Turnip]

57. I don't see hating any social grouping of people as productive and healthy.

Obviously I have many issues with the system that allows the exploitation of the poor by the rich and I dislike specific individuals who are Rich but I don't hate the Rich as a social group.

And I will not make a broad moral judgement upon an entire socioeconomic group ether.

[TeamPooka]

58. penis envy

[ljm2002]

59. I don't "hate the rich"...

...and will even admit that, like most people, I would like to become one of them.

OTOH, I do hate the entitled rich, who think they are better than others, and who would begrudge a little help for those who need it. Those people I detest with a white hot passion. There is a good percentage of the rich who are like that and who would sacrifice their "lessers" to promote their so-called principles that are really just a mish-mash of Randian ass-hattery and simple self-serving. So I do hate a good percentage of the rich, not because they are rich, but because they are assholes -- and worse, they are assholes who work systematically to make life worse for 99% of their fellow humans. Which makes them a thousand, a million times worse than the standard issue asshole who merely fights when drunk, or gives the finger when you take too long after the light turns green, that sort of thing.

"Yes, as through this world I've wandered / I've seen lots of funny men / Some will rob you with a six-gun / And some with a fountain pen" -- Woody Guthrie

[BKH70041]

60. Who is "we"?

Is this supposed to be advocating for some type of group activity?

[lonestarnot]

66. Who said we can't?

[Taitertots]

67. The problem isn't that they are wealthy....

The problem is they don't produce enough to justify their wealth.

Dick Fuld has over $150,000,000. Does anyone actually think he personally produced $100,000,000 worth in goods and/or services?

[reddread]

68. because they are crunchy and taste good with ketchup

insert Forrest Gump menu here please.

[Egalitarian Thug]

69. Because, properly prepared and seasoned, they can be quite tasty. n/t