The only reason Hillary lost in 2008 was Obama took away the Clinton's African American base

[coldmountain]

Get another Barack Obama or get in line behind our first woman president.

[MineralMan]

1. That played a role in it, for sure, but

there were other factors, too. As for 2016, there's still a mid-term election coming up, and the results of that election are going to make an enormous difference in 2016.

GOTV 2014!

[MannyGoldstein]

2. The only reason that she'll lose in 2016

is that the family is wholly owned by Wall Street - and Americans have finally figured out that this is a bad thing.

[coldmountain]

69. The Clintons aren't stupid, they learn and they won't make the same mistakes they did in 2008

In my heart I know Hillary will be a more effective progressive candidate than Warren or anyone else. I know she is far more leftwing than her public persona but she knows one has to win before one can do anything.

[winter is coming]

130. Hillary is not a progressive. Support her if she's your cup of tea, but don't kid

yourself that she's secretly progressive and will do wonderful progressive-type things if elected.

[PoliticAverse]

3. Obama defeated Clinton because he got more votes than her. Whether another candidate can also

do that remains to be seen.

[Beacool]

77. He got 124 more pledged delegate votes.

Neither one had enough votes to win the nomination outright without the super delegates.

[dawg]

89. The super delegates need to go away.

The "Democratic" primary needs to be decided on a one-person, one-vote basis.

[Beacool]

150. Super delegates and caucuses need to go away.

This is not the 19th century, far too many people can't caucus. It only benefits the candidate with the most activists.

[Whisp]

178. Too bad the Clintons ignored the caucuses...

then whined about it after the show was over.

Like the system or not, it is what it is/was and the Obama team used them to their benefit unlike how the Clinton's blew it thinking there wouldn't be a race, that Hillary would just be handed the crown without working for it.

That Obama, such a meanie.

[Beacool]

207. Inane BS, as usual.

[dionysus]

219. don't worry Bea, she'll most likely win if she runs. here, i got something for ya!

[Beacool]

231. A bankie for me!!!!

Thank you, sweetie!!!






As for Hillary, a lot of bellyaching around here, but I have no doubt that if she runs she wins.

[PearliePoo2]

4. Interesting theory. One that has merit IMO.

Will the African-American base come out in enough numbers and vote for Hillary, do you think?

[JustAnotherGen]

6. good question

For the African American Group!

[Pretzel_Warrior]

48. no. any discussion of voter blocs and how they might vote in elections

seems like a pretty legitimate question for general consumption

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

78. Why? We can speak for ourselves, too. I think we're tired of people speaking for us.

Really, it's offensive.

[JustAnotherGen]

104. Thanks LS

Its the dominant culture impression - that poster I'm certain didn't mean to dismiss you, me, any black Americans. it's not intentional - but it is how the dominant culture expresses itself - unless we say: Stop. Wait. Think. We have brains, emotions, thoughts, lives, opinions - and those opinions regarding our experience prevail over your PERCEPTION about our experience.

This is a moment for the poster to learn.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

108. Yes, I know it's not intentional at all, but we must speak up. It's simply not

Last edited Tue Sep 24, 2013, 06:33 PM - Edit history (1)

acceptable to continue to be treated as if we are invisible and don't have a voice.

We can speak for ourselves, and frankly, I tire of being told what to think and how to feel; how to act and whatnot. We can't even wear hoodies and take a stroll down the street for chrissakes! LOL!!

I know there was no ill intent.

[JustAnotherGen]

120. I tried to explain a bit more on this sub thread

I don't think I'm alone here - I think we are highly aware of the threat to our ability to vote. And you are right - hoodies are one of the sucker punches taken this year. They make us visible I guess.

But as I read down thread - I see where the convo has swirled around us - yet again.

I really hope I'm wrong and we are able to hold back the tide - but as long as they are focused on high level infringement on civil liberties - they won't be able to focus on the most basic level - such as voting rights for minorities. Now we know there is a group of people out to "get" us - but does the Latino/Hispanic community know they are coming for them next? And so it doesn't matter in the Primary - its the GE. And I suspect that after the retaliation for our participation in Government the last two elections - we have an extremely long and hard row to hoe.

They display the race based anger towards the President as he is a public figure - but we all felt the sting of the IndieTeaPublican posters of Obama as a witch doctor.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

129. It seems that there is some discord between blacks and Hispanics and the Rethugs

are trying to keep us divided along the pro-Zimmerman lines. But when the VRA was weakned and Voter ID laws passed, all those infringements on citizenship rights impact Hispanics as much as they impact black Americans. I don't understand why we can't ban together and unite. Let's not forget, these laws have an adverse impact on the poor, the disabled, and seniors as well. All this negative talk doesn't help the cause at all. Why can't Democrats here at DU see this? There is a larger story here, a larger cause. These Republicans are literally out to destroy this country and they don't care about anything; all they want is to make sure this president is a failure. That's all. And they don't care if tens of millions of women and children suffer for it. I know I got off topic, but in the larger scheme of things, the fight is bigger than just black and brown people who are losing citizenship rights. If we lose these midterm elections in 2014, this country is going straight to hell. This country is doomed. Period!!!

[JustAnotherGen]

136. Bang on!

That's their end game. What's that I read about Texas being blue in 2020?

But when the VRA was weakned and Voter ID laws passed, all those infringements on citizenship rights impact Hispanics as much as they impact black Americans.

I agree. My canvassing has been quite interesting in NJ. At the end of the day - at least in this Northern state- our end game is sheer volume and ALL of these groups are ready to have their say. I have not had one person bring up the NSA . . . I hear minimum wage (on the ballot here), oppressive homestead taxes on Seniors, and especially in the black community - racism, voting, gun laws. In this thread nobody mentions who this candidate is going to go up against. If I were a betting woman - Christie wins in November he goes all the way to the GE in 2016.

I don't understand why we can't ban together and unite. Let's not forget, these laws have an adverse impact on the poor, the disabled, and seniors as well. All this negative talk doesn't help the cause at all.

They mean well. And I have been pretty quiet on the larger civil liberty issues (government intrusion) because my voting rights and reproductive rights are simply more important to me and my experience in America.

Why can't Democrats here at DU see this? There is a larger story here, a larger cause. These Republicans are literally out to destroy this country and they don't care about anything; all they want is to make sure this president is a failure. That's all. And they don't care if tens of millions of women and children suffer for it.

[freshwest]

237. Excellent. agreed on all points.

[freshwest]

236. May I say something here?

I find the language of the OP offensive in tone at the very end and do not accept the premise blacks were somehow a voting block that voted solely on race.

But sadly, a great many white voters I thought to be Democrats did not accept a black Democrat when Hillary did not win the nomination. They literally jumped ship and voted for McCain and never came back, so I think I never really knew them at all. I see the OP echoing a RW meme claiming black racism elected Obama.

Be that as it may, I will answer on two things:

Hillary lost this white vote for her stances on issues that were important to me. The Iraq War, etc. Her performance at the pirmary debate with my favorite candidates, outraged me. But Obama struck me as the kind of level-headed, thoughtful and principled person I wanted in the White House. My opinion of Obama hasn't changed, he has proven to me that he 'gets it.' The more the 2008 campaign continued, I felt Hillary did not speak for me.

If there is no other viable Democratic candidate in 2016 other than Hillary... Well, hell. I don't know what to do.

You are speaking for me right here, well said:

...focused on high level infringement on civil liberties - they won't be able to focus on the most basic level - such as voting rights for minorities...

There are a lot of people who don't see a problem there. I see a major one that will give Teapublicans or Libertarians their liberty and freedom to destroy the entire country.

If Obama could run again, I would vote for him again. If Hillary is the candidate opposed to Paul, I'd be forced to vote for her. But will others do so?

And if blacks do have a great black candidate and are the main workers for making happen, I see no call to insist a woman is the next president. Obama has been called the First Feminist President. It's about the principles and policies, not the vessel.

Just my two cents. I'll try to scan down and see your other replies you refer to in this subthread.

[JustAnotherGen]

238. Thank you Freshwest for your insight

Re:

There are a lot of people who don't see a problem there. I see a major one that will give Teapublicans or Libertarians their liberty and freedom to destroy the entire country.

This scares the hell out of me. Are we okay in NJ? For now - yes. I don't see our state legislature letting Christie pull the b.s. that happened in PA and is still out there.

The Southern states given a free pass by the SCOTUS that we don't win eveeeer - are not something we can touch. That does not mean ignore entirely - because I would hate to see them pass a law that means people voting for Lewis or Cummings can't get in the booth to pull the lever. We need to ensure solid Democratic districts for House members are safe.

But we can hit PA and Ohio hard. And we have to. 2004 - well look what happened in Ohio. Last year we bit nails over Philadelphia.

If Christie takes those two states - and he can - then that's it. I don't think Paul or any of the other passengers in the IndieTeaPublican clown car can - but he could. Because the good buddy of Rove took all in Trenton in 2009 - a state that last elected a Republican Senator . . . When? And yet I'm laughed at when I point out his friendship with Rove (who gets away with everything so his job at Fox is a non-issue) - and Rive knows how to steal GEs and get away with it. Really - Christie can't "win" a few Southern state primaries if Rove is "helping"?

Obama win twice and he dd it fair and square. He shattered their illusions. And they are out for blood in 2016.

And first blood has been the black voter - because they could.

[Number23]

143. PERFECTLY said, JAG. And as usual, I completely agree

unless we say: Stop. Wait. Think. We have brains, emotions, thoughts, lives, opinions - and those opinions regarding our experience prevail over your PERCEPTION about our experience.

WOW!!

[ZombieHorde]

179. I wish we all that quote in mind when we discussed every demographic.

Even demographics we don't agree with, such as pro-life individuals.

[Cha]

157. Mahalo Gen~ nm

[JustAnotherGen]

103. But how do non blacks

Know what we think?

. So I disagree - that's dominant culture trying to guess about a culture they have very little insight into. It's fair to say - ask us what we think. Don't guess.

[Pretzel_Warrior]

111. well, the only difficulty I have with that is it has been clear that DU

does not, in general, represent where the typical self-identified Democrat is on issues. Based on that, it is unlikely asking a group of DU'ers from a specific bloc of voters (Union, women, white males, blacks) how they feel or will vote would necessarily give accurate information about what 2016 holds in store.

It just seems a tad touchy to say we cannot in a general discussion forum discuss possible scenarios around how Latinos will go in 2016 or how African Americans will go.

I strongly believe 2008 election was a true eye opener for many minorities--especially African Americans about the political power they can wield if they will show up and vote in exceedingly large numbers. I can certainly understand why so many had not voted prior in some southern states because they've been disenfranchised and purposefully made to feel their vote won't ever matter. Just as many of us have been made to feel.

After Obama won election in 2008, I told my wife that this would energize even more African Americans to vote in the next election because this new reality of a black man as president would shake off some of the jaded and cynical feelings about the political process. It turns out that is what happened. Black people increased turnout in 2012 which was critical to Obama's victory in a number of states.

So it is interesting to ponder what black voters will do if there is a white Democratic presidential candidate. My bet is they will still vote in greater numbers than previous decades.

[JustAnotherGen]

118. Try this on for size

What if you are wrong? What if we have been observing the process? What if we are no longer enchanted - and what if the key component of the VRA has been declared unconstitutional and maybe . . . Just maybe that was by design?

I predict - based upon my actual activism (as it threatens me directly) that we have a very long and hard row to hoe. And we may very well WANT to vote - but we may not be able to.

Hope resides in the dominant culture. We've taken a few sucker punches this year in America - and there are any more to come. So we might be a little less hopeful.

I'm not writing this to ake you cringe - I'm giving you the thoughts of a highly aware black female voter - Who is fired up about this. And they were so damn sneaky about this push for disenfranchisement. What else have they got?

And I don't think I'm alone in this. Come canvass with me for Bouno in the Oranges this Saturday and you will hear it for yourself. This past Sunday was Newark.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

135. I'm willing to bet that there are no blacks in Jersey supporting Christie.

Just a hunch...

[JustAnotherGen]

139. Not a one

I've yet to come across a single one. And all I have to remind people of is that there is an initiative on the ballot to raise the minimum wage here and well - folks are going to REMEMBER to vote for Booker but they are going to go vote for Buono . . . And themselves.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

134. You make good points here, especially about the power of us showing up to vote.

We should learn from the mistakes we made in 2010 and how that has cost this country dearly. We are still paying that price via redistricting that could continue to hurt us in 2014 and 2016.

We must show up and vote in upcoming elections...in overwhelming numbers.

The GOP knows this; that's why they had to go after voting rights and obstruct through redistricting. These are the only tools they have left.

[ZombieHorde]

180. We use astrology.

That's a joke.

[NuclearDem]

5. How about we try for an actual progressive rather than assume Hillary's inevitable?

[Wait Wut]

7. Bullshit.

I'm not AA, but I am a woman. I didn't vote for her. I will NOT vote for someone based solely on gender, race, faith or any other personal traits. Too many 'Democratic' women switched sides just to vote for McCain because of Palin. That's idiocy.

"Get another Barack Obama..." sounds like a better plan than yours.

[woodsprite]

12. Same here! n/t

[davidpdx]

158. +1

Well put WW. I'm a white man and didn't vote for Obama because of race or gender. I think it's beyond some people's comprehension on DU that people actually vote for the person they actual liked and found they agreed with on the issues.

[HappyMe]

8. Oh, she was elected?

If she runs, I hope there is a more progressive candidate to primary her. She won't get my vote then.


edit to add - I am a white woman, and I did not vote for her the last time. I do not base my vote on gender or race.

[BeyondGeography]

9. The establishment/insurgency dynamic

Black voters only go with the insurgent when the candidate is black, but even then, they are reluctant to throw their votes away. Obama was a black insurgent who only polled well against Clinton with blacks once he proved his overall viability with them in Iowa.

Clinton not only runs strong with blacks but with Hispanics as well, where she trounced Obama pretty handily. Her only weakness is with educated, affluent whites who are typically the base for insurgents but never enough to get them over the hump.

[Egnever]

26. this is only anecdotal of course but

Every single one of my friends of color dismissed him as having no shot till after he took Iowa and they only switched their support from Clinton after it became very clear he actually had a shot. Lol I was telling them for months he was legit but every single one of them laughed at me.

There was a while there I thought he actually would not get enough support from the AA community to be a contender.

[BeyondGeography]

45. It took all of 2007 plus Iowa

and, even then, the tsunami didn't come until Bill started marginalizing Obama in NH (fairy tale) and SC.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

72. I think you're right. As I said, most blacks including myself were squarely in the

Clintons' corner. If you look at the polls, it was clear that black voters supported Hillary Clinton, there was no question about that. Many black voters outside of Chicago still didn't know who Barack Obama was. And those who did just thought he was the dude who gave a good speech at the convention 3 years prior. No one was checking for Barack Obama at that time.

So, let me tell you what I think happened and confirm that you're spot on:

When Barack Obama built a grassroots campaign in Iowa and worked hard, going from door to door--playing fair and square and not taking anything for granted, he did well. No one though he could win. And black people did not think he could win. I did not support Barack Obama. At that time, I didn't really like Hillary Clinton. I supported Dennis Kucinich. Point blank.

But when Obama proved that he could win, I saw a lot of blacks saying, hey, this brother may be on to something; I like the way he carries himself; he's not a baffoon in the way that Sharpton is; he's not an opportunist in the way that Jackson is; he's not embarassing in the way Keyes is. The only thing most of us worried about was whether he would be assassinated. That's the god's-honest truth. Particularly for black women--we are horrified for this man's family! But even after winning Iowa, Hillary Clinton STILL had the majority of black voters in her corner.

Things only changed before we got to NH and SC. When Hillary likened Obama to MLK, Jr. "only making pretty speeches" and herself to "LBJ getting things done" and when Bill made racially-coded statements about Jesse Jackson, black people took notice. You see, we're not dumb people. We know all about racially-coded language and dog whistles. We know all about Reagan's Southern Strategy and how the Rethugs used it to get white Democrats to vote Republican. That's when things started to change.

We get to PA, KY, West VA, Hillary and her surrogates stayed on the racially charged language: Geraldine Ferraro talking about affirmative action; Ed Rendell making statements about Obama's race; Hillary talking about "hard working white people," Bill Clinton making appearances on Bill O'Reilly's show; Mark Penn; James Carville and his gang of PUMAs with their drivel. The list goes on and on. I'm not saying that there wasn't nastiness on both sides, but most of it came from the Clintonistas, especially as it became clear that they were losing.

There were plenty of reasons why Hillary Clinton lost, apart from the unorganized, dismal way in which she ran her campaign. Iraq and her refusal to apologize; the lies she told regarding the sniper fire incident; the list goes on.

[JustAnotherGen]

147. Re the Dog Whistles

You are 100% correct. And I have to say - whatever his faults as a man . . . We never heard them from Edwards. Or Kucinich.

The dignity that then candidate Obama displayed impressed me.

[Jamaal510]

154. I just started following politics

in 2007 in high school, but I had no idea about them using dog whistles, too. I'll never look at Hillary the same way again, that's for sure. After hearing about that in your post, I'm now glad that she did lose to Obama in '08. Wow.

[Cha]

159. that was really stupid for the Clintons to try and divide by

slinging racial charged proclaimations. Do they have Mark Penn to thank for that?

Anyway.. Obama was way better organized.. and he's only gotten better. I would think the old Clinton political machine learned a thing or two from the young Senator from Illinois.

But, funny ol world.. look at them now. Hillary is the former SOS in PBO's First Admin and Bill and Pres Obama talked about the Obamacare today at the CGI..


@petesouza: Pres Obama talks backstage w Pres Clinton as Hillary Clinton waits to be introduced at CGI event today

http://www.democraticunderground.com/110217067

[Whisp]

189. If anyone asks later, you're a sniper:

[NightWatcher]

10. Jesus Christ. Are we doing this now?

We don't even have announced candidates, much less a nominee and we are 2+ years away.

[Whisp]

11. Obama had a better message and a better campaign

and above all had way better people working with him than Clinton did. I mean, Mark Penn and foot in mouther Bill?

Spin all you like about how Obama somehow didn't win 'fair', but that is not true.

[Le Taz Hot]

13. 369 posts and offering up

"Hillary is inevitable, resistance is futile" posts. They've already released the First Wave I see.

[Sunlei]

19. I wish we had 100 good Ds claiming they 'may' run. The USA can use the R money to boost the economy

[coldmountain]

28. Who is they?

[Democracyinkind]

43. I hoped that you would tell us yourself. nt

[bobduca]

211. Whichever political machine spun you up

[Egalitarian Thug]

42. Yep, remember 2007?

Her campaign strategy seems to be largely based on turning campaigns into marathons. The campaign becomes a business and distracts us from what is actually being done for a year.

Hillary '16, the sparkly distraction you watch while the parasites keep their agenda moving forward.

[Vanje]

56. Leading up to 2004, Lieberman was the inevitable candidate.

He ran out of Joementum early on, and was the first to drop out of the race.

[ZombieHorde]

181. I can't tell if this is satire or not. nt

[Sunlei]

14. is the Rs we have to thank for Obama. They attacked Mrs. Clinton so much & imho,

some even voted against her in primary, so he won. (and they didn't think he was as electable as she was)

THANKS REPUBLICANS

We got both those awesome people.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

65. Bullshit! That was NOT their plan. Their plan was to vote FOR Hillary Clinton!

Don't you remember Rush Limbaugh?? He was trying to get people to vote for Hillary Clinton because they hated Barack Obama! They wanted to divide the Democratic Party and they are still trying to divide the Democratic Party. Your post is full of shit.

[Sunlei]

73. Then why did Rs even attack Mrs Clinton at all before the primary?

agree a tactic of Rs is to divide and conquer but in my opinion- only at that time in 2008. They wanted Mr. Obama to win the primary.

For 2016 Rs really want Mrs. Clinton to declare NOW to run. I hope Mrs. Clinton keeps Rs guessing until the very last second. And I hope a lot of Ds declare they want to run very early to yank those R chains HARD for years.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

75. This is very easy. They only *pretended* to like Hillary Clinton. They don't like her.

They hate Barack Obama. But they don't like her. They only pretended to like her in 2008 to divide the Democratic Party. This is really easy. They hate her now because they are afraid of her. They know that she is popular within the ranks of the Democratic Party. They are trying to weakned her. A weakened Hillary Clinton cannot run for office. And their field of candidates are weak. They have no one except for Chris Christie, and even he can't get through the Republican primaries. There's no way in hell that Chris Christie will be able to make it through those primaries in the South and midwest as a northerner. Ted Cruz? I don't think so. Rubio? He's weak. Rand Paul? Maybe he'll do o.k. in the South and possibly the midwest but not among mainstream Republicans. They have no one. So they only hope they have is to divide and weaken the best candidate we have: Hillary Clinton. How do they do that? Tie her to Barack Obama as much as they can. He's unpopular right now. So, keep bringing up Benghazi as much as possible. Tie her to Benghazi and repeat ad nauseum.

[Sunlei]

95. President Obama is not unpopular with me but I know what you mean about the R propaganda machine.

I still don't think Mrs. Clinton wants to run. She has things she wants to do in the private sector.

But like I mentioned, keep the Rs guessing for years.

[CreekDog]

15. the first black president did not *take* Hillary's voters

do not enjoy your (short) stay.

[coldmountain]

27. See if Warren can win blue collar voters off the Clintons especially outside New England

Not going to happen. Let's see Hillary, has strong support among older women, blue collar voters, Hispanics and African-Americans.

[CreekDog]

29. your OP is nonsense and racially insensitive nonsense at that

please don't enjoy your stay.

[Wait Wut]

101. A rare moment.

I didn't even think about the racially insensitive bent until I reread the OP. That's what happens when you're white. You miss stuff like that.

Insinuating that black voters only voted for (then) Sen. Obama because he was black is just as gross as saying I should have supported Hillary because she was a female...and white. What the hell do we do if all the candidates are white men? Stay home?

DU is giving me a major headache today.

[JustAnotherGen]

124. Thank you

For acknowledging that.

[HappyMe]

50. Elizabeth Warren has far more appeal to blue collar

workers than Hillary.

EW has done plenty in re to the banks to get them on her side.

[coldmountain]

57. No Warren doesn't. People remember the good times under Bill Clinton

[HappyMe]

60. Bill does not equal Hillary.

The situation now is way different. Anybody willing to go after banks that are screwing people (blue collar) is going to be wildly popular. I still think EW is far better. She has much more progressive ideas that we need now.

I'm hoping for a primary. I'm actually kind of hoping Hillary doesn't run because we need some new blood.

[Whisp]

127. yah, For A Good Time, Call Bill...

while he was peckering and distracted there were things going down in the laws under his admin that were a major reason why the financial system was in such a bad state as it was when Obama took office.

Please. This fantasy about how great and wonderful Bill was is just that, a fantasy. He just happened to be President when silicon valley went boom.

[coldmountain]

30. You kind of make my point, no white candidate could have beat Hillary

[CreekDog]

33. No, I don't make racist points for you

sorry.

[coldmountain]

36. African Americans are going to pick the candidate and it won't be Warren

[CreekDog]

41. African Americans are all going to do one thing and you are privy to it are you?

uh huh.

[Democracyinkind]

51. "Heard it through the grapevine", I suppose.

[Wait Wut]

109. LOL!!!

Gotta say, CD, you're being uncharacteristically calm. I have the feeling it's because you've been slamming your head against the keyboard.

[davidpdx]

160. +1

That's two in one thread.

[HappyMe]

39. WTF!

Really?

I think so. You don't seem to be considering actual policy, only race.

If there is a progressive white person running against her, that person will get my vote. I will go so far as to say thast if I am stuck voting for her, I will hold my nose.

I would sooner Elizabeth Warren was the first woman president.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

97. CreekDog - you know you are on to something when You and I BOTH AGREE!!

[Wait Wut]

110. No kidding!

You and I both!

[Tuesday Afternoon]

112. you smell it, too- eh?

[Wait Wut]

115. I almost wanna thank the OP.

This whole thread has brought together a lot of people that were flinging poo at each other earlier!

[CreekDog]

126. it's like the 100th monkey effect

we are all flinging poo these days!

[Marrah_G]

16. OFFS

[DefenseLawyer]

17. How do you explain Iowa?

Hmmmmm......

[Capt. Obvious]

18. Cory Booker it is then

I read you loud and clear

[hfojvt]

24. let me make some sort of addendum

to the A.

or that could be another version of ABC

Anybody
But
Cory

Gag me with a silver spoon.

[JustAnotherGen]

31. +10000

[sagat]

20. Shit, I hope not.

We need some fresh blood.

No more Clintons pls.

[hfojvt]

21. assimilate

or be destroyed

resistance is futile.

I'm still praying for a miracle. Please, please oh some power, keep us from a future President Thatcher.

I will do what I can to row for shore as well, just like I did in 2007/08.

ABC, easy as 123, as simple as do ray me, ABC ...

Anybody
But
Clinton

[PADemD]

22. Hillary lost my vote because of her vote for the Iraq War.

[GoCubsGo]

23. No, it's not the "only reason".

A lot of us white people preferred him over her, too. I can't speak for the rest of them, but I'm not big on dynasties when it comes to our presidents, which is why she was my last choice of the lot of primary candidates. Had she won the nomination, I would have voted for her, and I will do so if she gets the nomination in 2016. Whether or not I vote for her in the primary depends on who else is running.

[cynatnite]

25. I think that was part of it...

I also think people were really torn between the two.

I really liked Obama a lot, but I threw my support behind Hillary. When it became clear he was our nominee, getting behind him was not a problem at all.

It was all political theater anyway.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

32. There were many reasons why Hillary Clinton lost. She HAD African Americans

squarely in her corner in the beginning. I hate to go down this road again because it's really painful for me and a lot of other black Americans who loved the Clintons, but it is the truth. When she and Bill Clinton started making unfortunate statements of a racial nature, they started to lose a lot of black Americans.

Let's make this clear:

Black Americans have ALWAYS supported white candidates over black candidates. We got behind Mondale over Jesse Jackson, supported Dukakis over Al Sharpton, supported Al Gore again for Jesse Jackson. In my own backyard here in Maryland, blacks supported Ben Cardin overwhelmingly for the Senate over Kwesi Mfume who was once the head of the NAACP. We supported Ben over Mike Steele as well. And yes, in the beginning, we supported Hillary Clinton over Barack Obama. Things shifted because Obama proved that he could win. He proved to be a better candidate than Hillary Clinton. All those other black candidates were not better than their white counterparts and so they lost. No Democratic Party candidate can win an election without the support of the black electorate. Period. That's just a fact. Therefore, all those years in which white Democratic candidates were winning elected offices, thank black folk who voted for them.

So contrary to a commonly held belief--and I believe a racist one--black people did not vote for Barack Obama because he is black. He proved to be the better candidate while Hillary struggled through her campaign. And Bill Clinton made things worse. Add to that their behavior and the behavior of their surrogates. It really did turn a lot of black Americans who would have ordinarily supported the Clintons, off.

So, let's be clear.

Hillary Clinton will need to work for her votes just as every other candidates has had to.

Nothing will be given to her. She is not entitled to anything.

The Democrats are not entitled to the black vote. They cannot and must not take the black electorate for granted.

[ieoeja]

93. Great posts! And may I add, did the OP pay ANY attention to the primary results last election?

Obama won lily-White Iowa.

Clinton wins New Hampshire with a last minute surge among Black voters in the larger cities.

Obama won all but one county in Nevada: Las Vegas County. The only county in Nevada with a large African-American population was the only county Obama lost.

Obama went on to sweep the western, non-coastal primaries. And none of those states had much in the way of AA population.


The one region of the country where race may have actually helped Obama was in the South. While hardly a friendly place for a Black politician, it certainly has a larger percentage of African-Americans than anywhere else in the country. Politically the population has somewhat self-segregated itself. Blacks play such a major role in southern Democratic primaries because most Whites vote in the Republican primaries.

And, as you say, that only happened because Obama was winning BEFORE the first southern primary. Had our first primary been in the South, Hillary would have kicked Obama's butt.

[JustAnotherGen]

142. Throw the mic!

Just throw it down and strut off the stage!

[hollowdweller]

163. Thanks for posting this

Black Americans have ALWAYS supported white candidates over black candidates. We got behind Mondale over Jesse Jackson, supported Dukakis over Al Sharpton, supported Al Gore again for Jesse Jackson. In my own backyard here in Maryland, blacks supported Ben Cardin overwhelmingly for the Senate over Kwesi Mfume who was once the head of the NAACP. We supported Ben over Mike Steele as well. And yes, in the beginning, we supported Hillary Clinton over Barack Obama. Things shifted because Obama proved that he could win. He proved to be a better candidate than Hillary Clinton. All those other black candidates were not better than their white counterparts and so they lost. No Democratic Party candidate can win an election without the support of the black electorate. Period. That's just a fact. Therefore, all those years in which white Democratic candidates were winning elected offices, thank black folk who voted for them.[/blockquote]





I have been in so many arguments with wingnuts who argued black people voted for Obama because he was black and I would have loved to have had the examples you gave to come back at them with. I have to bookmark this thread or save the examples somehow. Thanks!

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

167. There are so many other examples where that came from. So many examples.

But it's easy. Just simply tell them that NO Democratic Party candidate can win without black votes. And since that's true, Shirley Chisholm, Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton, and Cynthia McKinney would have been our Democratic Party nominees. None of them were.

And if white people in the Republican Party are so open-minded, J.C. Watts, Alan Keyes, Michael Steele, and Herman Cain would've become their Republican Party nominees. None of them were.

So they should just cut the bullshit.

Bottom line: black voters have always supported white candidates over black candidates in Democratic Party politics.

The latest example: Bill de Blasio over Bill Thompson. de Blasio got more black votes than Thompson.

The wingnuts need to miss me with their racist bullshit.

And Democrats should know better. They need to stop taking black voters for granted.

[uponit7771]

166. +1

[NCTraveler]

34. To be fair.

Getting another Obama is no different than getting Clinton. That is why many people are having such a problem with Obama, they thought they were getting something other than Clinton.

[Whisp]

131. Have to disagree, big time.

If Hillary was in the big chair, Syria would surely be in bombing stage a year or so ago. She is a hawking warmongering doofus that would be threatening Iran too with her ridiculous 'tough' talk.

The Clintons are deceitful and self promoting and I don't see that in Obama at all. I find him to be a truly honest man. I understand lots don't see it that way, but to me there are many many miles between the two. The only things in common are they both have a D after their name and both stand upright.

Hillary is 3/4 Republican and 1/4 ca-chinger.

[NCTraveler]

200. That is truly a great reply.

Funny on so many levels. Tell me, how many countries has Obama sent missiles into. He is a hawk, just like Clinton.

"She is a hawking warmongering doofus that would be threatening Iran too with her ridiculous 'tough' talk."

That shows where you are coming from. You are offering a childish and emotional response. Our emotional responses are often not based in reality to anyone except ourselves. I am not saying the feelings aren't real to you.

[kestrel91316]

35. Thank you for your "insight". Enjoy your stay.

[coldmountain]

52. Edwards was also a unique candidate and we won't see an equivalent to him in 2016

No more white southern candidates left in the Democratic party, Bill Clinton was sort of the last strong one.

[winter is coming]

133. Being white and southern isn't what made Edwards stand out in '08.

It was the "two Americas" populism. Given our current situation, I'd be surprised if we don't have at least one populist candidate in 2016: it's an obvious opportunity for anyone who can credibly take on that role.

[JustAnotherGen]

144. I'm a black woman

Who was an early Edwards supporter. It had nothing to do with the color of his skin - it hash to do with him making health care and poverty cornerstones of his platform. I also thought that a guy who had made his money giving corporations hell . . . Was the guy to go after corporations.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

37. I love how so many people like to speak for us knee-grows. They know so much

about how we think, feel, and act. WOW!!

[NoOneMan]

38. Hillary has an African American base?

And all black people instantly fled and voted for Obama simply because he was black? Is that what you're saying?

[LanternWaste]

40. Well, as the learned Romans used to say, "post hoc ergo prompter hoc."

Well, as the learned Romans used to say, "post hoc ergo prompter hoc."

[GeorgeGist]

44. The Only reason ...

my post won't get hidden is that I won't say what I'm thinking.

[phleshdef]

46. I'm white and I voted for Barack Obama over Hillary Clinton. Explain that.

[Gothmog]

90. I am also white

My son and I joked that we were typical Obama voters in that we were either in law school or a law school graduate. Obama was very popular with white professionals with graduate degrees.

[Vanje]

47. "The only reason Hillary lost in 2008 was Obama ..........

Got more votes.

Plain and simple.

[Vanje]

49. Obama got 100% of the white female vote.....

.....in my household.

[coldmountain]

54. Will Barack Obama support Hillary or an insurgent?

[Vanje]

58. Sitting presidents don't publicly endorse primary candidates.

Who ever runs against the R in the general election, will have Obama's full-throated approval. Thats my prediction. (Really going out on a limb , arent I?)

[coldmountain]

107. Just goes in TV with Bill to explain their signature legistlation after being introduced by Hillary

[dkf]

53. Nope. He took away the anti-war base.

And for all the complaints that I have about Obama I don't doubt Hillary would have bombed Syria ages ago. She is still worse than Obama.

[WilliamPitt]

55. Where am I?

[cali]

59. Who the fuck are YOU to demand that I or anyone else support YOUR fucking choice?

Shove that crap, honey.

[HooptieWagon]

62. It was similar arrogance to OP from Clinton supporters...

...that turned many people off from her in 08.

[HooptieWagon]

61. She lost because she ran a lousy campaign.

She thought she'd have the nomination locked up on Super Tuesday, and wasn't prepared for a drawn-out primary. She ran out of money, had a crappy campaign staff, and turned a lot of people off with her attitude of entitlement, the mud-slinging, and racist blasts from Bill.

[davidpdx]

164. That is a very good point that many forget and is lost in the revisionist history

At the end of Super Tuesday the delegate count was close. Obama won enough delegates during Super Tuesday to stay even with Clinton. Had Clinton put a serious plan in place to contest the states after Super Tuesday, she may have come closer to splitting those delegates evenly with Obama. Who knows how that would have changed the dynamic of the nomination and the votes in March, April, May, and June. It may have given her the momentum she needed to pull away. We'll never know.

But campaign planning, structure, and efficiency did play a role.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

171. No. Obama had enough delegates after Super Tuesday. Hillary was done. She decided to keep going...

...and while she had every right to, she dragged the fight out to spite Obama, knowing damn well that she had already lost and there was no way for her to catch up. What you have written here is not true; she was never close in delegates or super delegates. Obama was far ahead and she knew that there was no way for her to catch up other than to change the rules in FL and MI at the last minute, and even that was questionable. Remember, the fight for super delegates: they could switch over at any time and the Clinton camp made the argument that they could persuade the SD's to switch over to their side. As long as that was the case, there could possibly be a convention fight. I remember the Republicans loved it! A divided "DemoCRAT" Party! Remember Rush Limbaugh's strategy? He wanted his minions to switch over and vote in Democratic Party primaries for Hillary in order to disrupt the process! Asshole!

I think it was good for him to keep fighting it out, but what the Clinton campaign did was spiteful and caused very bad blood--dividing the party for awhile. She also knew that she was racking up campaign debt making it all the more difficult for her. It was hard to bring the party together for a long time after the shenanigans she pulled. It took a long time for a lot of people to forgive the Clintons for that crap, but eventually we all came together.

Seeing them together today was good.

[davidpdx]

174. I actually supported Obama and that isn't true, I don't accept revisionist history on either side

After Super Tuesday (as in the day after) they were pretty close. It wasn't until the other primaries and caucuses during the rest of that month that he started to pull away. Now going back to my post which you replied to, I clearly stated that it was the rest of the February contests that made a huge difference, which was the point I was making. While it became mathematically improbable for Clinton as the primary season road on, she had the right to stay in until the last primary which was June 3rd. She still won a handful of states after Pennsylvania.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

222. Not revisionist history. Obama was far ahead in delegates and super delegates

Last edited Wed Sep 25, 2013, 03:05 PM - Edit history (1)

after Super Tuesday. They were closer in actual votes totals. And in fact, because Hillary won bigger states and continued to win bigger states after Super Tuesday, she was actually starting to beat Obama in votes; however, we don't win primaries based on votes. We win them based on the number of delegates and super delegates. That's why she attempted to persuade the delegates to move over to her side and they wouldn't. (You don't remember this?)

Here are the delegate counts. See for yourself:

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2008/president/democratic_delegate_count.html

Wiki page has a nice description. After Super Tuesday, Obama widened his delegate lead, winning 100 more states, convincing more super delegates to move to his column. It wasn't until PA and other larger states that Hillary slowed his momentum:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hillary_Clinton_presidential_primary_campaign,_2008

There's no need for me to lie about anything, as I had no dog in the fight during that time. I didn't support Obama or Hillary then. I was still a Kucinich supporter. When Denis finally dropped out, I became an Edwards supporter. It was only when it came down to those two that I reluctantly suppported him and that was only because I could not support her.

[davidpdx]

233. I think we are saying the same thing, but in different ways

Again, as I have said twice the day after Super Tuesday it was still close and actually Clinton lead 1,056 to Obama's 1,036

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democratic_Party_(United_States)_presidential_primaries,_2008#Super_Tuesday

It was after the mid Feb contests is when Obama built his lead 1,323 1/2 to Clinton 1,222 1/2

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democratic_Party_(United_States)_presidential_primaries,_2008#Mid-February_contests

The problem with RCP is it only gives the final count, not as it actually happened meaning you can't really pick apart the numbers. This is why I've used Wikipedia instead.

The Superdelegates shifted so much until March/April that you really can't factor those in Obama's lead until later when it was clear that most all were going to eventually shift to him. Even then they came in spurts not all at once. Most of them started to fall in place in May and early June. I do remember it very well.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

234. Look, it's a moot point. The bottom line is that the thread is flamebait, attempting to divide

this party again. I'm glad we're on the same side, and that's what matters.

[tammywammy]

63. Uh, no. n/t

[nebenaube]

64. keep telling yourself that...

I won't vote for her.

[Prometheus Perez]

66. If Cory Booker runs against Hillary, he will defeat her

She would have problems keeping the media from spinning many of her comments as racist. This would result in a boost for Booker and strengthening of Booker's already large advantage among African American likely voters.

[swayne]

67. Bill Clinton made some unflattering remarks that didn't sit well with black people.

He said something to the effect of putting down Jessie Jackson and bad mouthed Obama in a way where you couldn't tell if it WASN'T racially tinged in South Carolina

A rare, misstep and miscalculation by the Clinton machine.

http://www.christianpost.com/news/bill-clinton-a-few-years-ago-obama-would-be-carrying-our-bags-81091/

[Beacool]

74. That quote is just hearsay, as the two people who would know whether it was true

Last edited Wed Sep 25, 2013, 08:55 PM - Edit history (1)

are both dead. It was also reported that Clinton said "served us coffee" not carry our bags. The coffee serving quote would have been more believable because it has to do with seniority and the Senate archaic rules. Hillary served coffee to other senators when she was new in the chamber.

[JI7]

70. yeah, all those Black Voters in Iowa

if not for them Hillary would have won.......................

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

145. Sho' ya right! LOL!!!

[Nevernose]

71. In other words:

The only reason that Hilary lost the 2008 primary is that Obama got more votes.

Thanks for the information. I had suspected as much, but now you've confirmed it for me.

[bowens43]

76. Actually Hillary lost because Obama was the better candidate...still is

[Beacool]

82. That is strictly a matter of opinion.

[HappyMe]

85. I think so too.

I suppose this is the start of the Hail Hillary OPs.

[karynnj]

79. In any tight race - primary or general - there are likely hundreds of

things that had they been different would have made the difference. This is clearly one of them.

I suspect an easier reason is that all the not HRC lined up behind Obama. I have seen many primary races where people spoke of the need for all the people against the frontrunner to unite behind one AB(the frontrunner) - this is the only time it actually worked. (Oddly it is possible that the Clintons eliminated everyone but Obama and Edwards - and he imploded - and no second tier candidate gained momentum.

[leftstreet]

80. LOL Hillary lost because she wasn't prepared to fight

She was completely blindsided, which was surprising given her campaign experience

By the time she realized her opponent was Obama, not McCain, it was too late - he already had the Kennedy endorsement and she was toast

[DonCoquixote]

228. Exactly

It was the case of tortoise and hare, Hillary thought she would win, so she let Mark Penn and her Hubby hit the talk shows and say things that the best soap could not wash off.

[Beacool]

81. You really like to live dangerously, don't you?

I still think that Hillary would have been a more effective president, particularly in dealing with Congress. But what's the point of rehashing the past? It's all about the future now. We may still get a Hillary presidency.

[Starry Messenger]

83. That must be why Allen West and Herman Cain are so popular.

[JustAnotherGen]

123. +1

[joshcryer]

84. she didn't focus on caucuses

[coldmountain]

87. HILLARY WOULD EASILY BEAT WARREN IN MASSACHUSETTS or BOOKER IN NEW JERSEY!

[HappyMe]

88. I DON'T THINK SO!

WARREN AND BOOKER ARE FAR BETTER CANDIDATES.


enjoy your HDS --

Hillary Deification Syndrome!

[coldmountain]

94. -More than 50% of Democrats in Massachusetts want Hillary Clinton to be their candidate

-More than 50% of Democrats in Massachusetts want Hillary Clinton to be their candidate for President in 2016. In a sense that's unremarkable- it's what we find everywhere we poll. But what makes it remarkable in Massachusetts is that she's over 50% despite the fact that we included 2 Bay State politicians- Governor Deval Patrick and Senator Elizabeth Warren- and she's still over 50%. 55% would like her to be the nominee to 17% for Joe Biden, 4% each for Warren, Patrick, and Andrew Cuomo, and 1% for Martin O'Malley. It's just another data point of how overwhelming the desire is for Hillary in 2016.

-Our first look at Senator Elizabeth Warren's approval numbers finds 44% of voters approving of her to 39% who disapprove. That +5 net approval is pretty much in line with her 8 point margin of victory last fall. Deval Patrick's approval rating is 48/41- the 48% approval is identical to what we found when we last polled on him in October.

http://www.publicpolicypolling.com/main/2013/05/hillary-over-50-even-in-massachusetts.html

[Vanje]

121. Its kind of silly to count votes before any candidates have declared.

[Gothmog]

86. Mark Penn had a great deal to do with why Hillary Clinton did not win

Penn is an idiot and did not understand the delegate allocation system.

The people running the Obama campaign were very good at maximizing votes. I was a poll watcher/voter protection attorney for the Obama campaign during the Texas primary. The Obama campaign did a great job of educating his supporters as to how to deal with the Texas Two Step of a primary followed by caucuses. Senator Clinton won the primary but lost in the caucus rounds. I attended a training session where the trainers outlined how to get the most delegates out of each caucus and I could see the results of their efforts at the precinct and later county/senate district conventions.

[coldmountain]

91. Hillary will have new infrastructure this time with many from the Obama campaign

Ready For Hillary Super PAC Hires Obama Campaign Veterans

WASHINGTON -- Veterans of President Barack Obama's two presidential campaigns are signing up to help a Democratic group supporting a potential Hillary Rodham Clinton presidential campaign.

The Ready for Hillary super PAC says it has hired a Democratic firm called 270 Strategies to oversee grassroots organizing, volunteer training and recruitment. The firm was started by former Obama campaign aides who oversaw the president's campaign in 2008 when he defeated Clinton in the Democratic primaries – and his 2012 re-election.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/07/10/ready-for-hillary-obama_n_3570848.html

[Arkana]

92. Oh, here we go.

Seriously, it's been 5 years.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

96. am I the only one to find this thread not only racist but, sexist to boot? what about Warren?

Did I wake up from a nap to find that the primaries are over?

[ieoeja]

100. Nope. Funny thing is, the OP is quoting the Rightist meme that people only voted for Obama ...

... because he was Black. It's almost like they're setting up, "they only voted for Hillary because she was female," as an excuse should they lose to her.

Or someone who wants Hillary to win and is actually stupid enough to believe that people only voted for Obama because he was Black and is stupid enough to believe that people will vote for Hillary in large numbers soley because she is female.

I'm not going to accuse the OP of being a Rightist. But I would be remiss were I not to point out that Rightists tend to believe their parodies of the Left making their efforts at pretense rather comical.

[coldmountain]

117. What about all the rightist memes against Hillary on this website?

[ieoeja]

218. Like the OP impling that people will vote for Hillary just because she is female?

As a matter of fact, I did notice it. That is one of the reasons I said the OP read like a Rightist parody of the Left.

[KG]

98. hill-arious.

[LiberalAndProud]

99. I won't return insult for insult,

but I will politely decline your invitation that seemed to be issued in the form of an order.

And I will add that your premise is unadulterated bullshit.

[Iggo]

149. The more "invitations" I get like this one...

...the less likely I am to vote for her in the (in the primaries).

[winter is coming]

102. This may come as a surprise to you, but when I look at a candidate, I don't think

"African American" or "female" or whatever; I look at the policies they're advocating and at their history. I don't give a shit about the ethnicity, gender, religion, sexual orientation, etc. of the 2016 candidates: if they can't credibly advocate for the 99%, they won't be getting my support.

[coldmountain]

105. You might not but the vast majority of people do take race and sex into account

The time has come for a woman POTUS and Hillary is the best chance.

[winter is coming]

114. Nope. This isn't a deli counter where Hillary took a number eight years ago

and has now reached her "turn". She's going to have to make the case why she'd be better than other candidates and it's unlikely to be the walk in the park that so many imagine. She was supposed to be a shoo-in for the nomination in '08 but a relative unknown beat her. The same thing could happen again.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

140. I am a woman and I am black and Hillary Rodham Clinton will have to EARN my vote!

Point. Blank. Period.

Your false generalizations about black voters are ridiculous. You know nothing about history, my friend.

[Vashta Nerada]

106. I didn't back Hillary because she's too conservative.

Race and gender had nothing to do with my decision.

[Beacool]

152. Yeah and you ended up with the male version of what you didn't want.

Obama is not exactly a liberal.

[seabeyond]

113. white, upper income, woman, i voted obama. i thought obama might not be as beholden to corporations

might go after wallstreet and bushco more than clinton. he didnt. i was disappointed. but, she would not have, either.

[coldmountain]

116. No electable candidate will go after Wall Street

No electable candidate will go after Wall Street very hard but Hillary has the best chance to get some reforms.

[seabeyond]

119. i will vote whatever democrat and i would like to see a woman take the spot. nt

[Whisp]

184. Try out saying this:

I would vote for the woman, but I would like to see a white man take the spot.

I hope we come to a place where anyone who is qualified has the same chance to win. That is what this should be all about. If a woman like Hillary is chosen as President, then fucks up with her idiotic 'toughness' liking for war and being the diplomatic clumsy she is, that will not do so well for all women that come after her to run.

I would never support anyone for any other reason than their character and qualifications and ability to work with others. Hillitary has none of these.

[snooper2]

122. It must be really cold on that mountain

[CANDO]

125. HUH?

Obama got the votes of this white husband and wife in the 08 primaries.

[TheKentuckian]

128. Hillary lost because she had a credible opponent.

She was beatable by a credible opponent because she has some anchors dragging her down like hiring Marc Penn and other stooges, an Iraq war vote she hasn't had a mea culpa for even at this late date, Clinton backlash from Big Dog signing off on dubious at best policies that haven't aged well at all that the party swallowed while he was in office that played no small part in the state of the economy then and now that many clearly see even above the fog of a period of upswing that generates Bubba's popularity among some, her and Bill's own mouths on several occasions, and the entitled attitude of being inevitable.

She also got the disadvantage of a track record, Obama could at least maintain plausible deniability that he was a Turd Way candidate which meant a place for those triangulated and Clintoned out allowing him to be both the establishment pick and the "outsider". A full term or two and there would be a book on Obama and he'd not have had room to maneuver that way and still attract corporate money.

[DFab420]

132. This is an obvious attempt to flame-bait using race as the leverage

Barack Obama won in 2008 because the American people voted for me.

We don't need "another Barack Obama" in which you are implying "black guy"

Also what is with the tone of "get in line" with regards to Hillary..

Do you not think we should have a female president?

[LuvLoogie]

137. Anti-Clinton, Anti-Obama bullshit.

[Agschmid]

138. So this feels a bit racist. No?

[99Forever]

141. If she's the Dem candidate...

... I vote 3rd party or write in.


I will NEVER vote for a Turd Way politician again. EVER.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

146. The only reason I considered Obama was that he (at least) wasn't a Clinton.

Alas, he has proven to be cut from the same 3rd Way cloth.

[bunnies]

148. Hillary won NH because she cried the day before the vote.

Fun, isnt it?

[Beacool]

151. What kind of sexist comment is that?

Aside from the fact that she never cried and there have been plenty of male politicians who actually did cry.

[DFab420]

161. Well actually she did cry, but I think the above poster was pointing out the racism in the OP

by using sexism to counterpoint it...

[Beacool]

165. No, she didn't.

Her voice cracked, that was all. Much ado was made of nothing. The whole thing was sexist.

[Whisp]

182. she got bad acting lessons from hubby:

He spots the camera then fakes the tears. jesus.

[Beacool]

208. Typical that you would post RW crap.

Ron Brown was a friend. I have laughed at funerals, plenty of people laugh at funerals. It's a way to relieve the tension.

[Whisp]

210. you miss the point(s), of course.

Laughing at a funeral is not the deal here, it is him laughing then noticing the camera pointed at him and then faking his crying. If you see nothing odd about that, fine. I do.

Is it RW crap that made Bill 'act' like he was crying? What kind of a guy would do that, knowing that the camera probably caught him and still go ahead. A guy that doesn't think of anything but his 'image', and he got caught.

What is RW about that clip is how he acted. When is he really sincere?

[Beacool]

230. You misinterpreted the clip, of course.

He didn't act like he was crying. He stopped laughing because he knew what the vultures would do with the image, and right on cue, here you are posting that video clip from the 90s that proves him correct.

[Whisp]

232. right

[bunnies]

213. Thank you.

Glad somebody got it.

[bunnies]

212. The kind that mocks the racist comment made by the OP.

See?

[hughee99]

153. That clearly explains why Obama won Iowa, Kansas, Nebraska

Idaho, Wyoming, etc. It was on the strength of the African American voters in those states.

Obama won because he was appealing to more voters. One of Clinton's greatest advantages was that people already knew her... it was also one of her biggest disadvantages.

[Beacool]

155. Hillary won most of the large state primaries.

Obama's pledged delegate advantage came from the caucuses where his activists outpaced Hillary's. Furthermore, more registered Democrats voted for Hillary than for Obama. So, the idea that he was more appealing to voters is not exactly true. They were both very close and neither won the nomination outright (remember the super delegates).

[hughee99]

168. In many states with larger African American populations,

Hillary won. In many states with smaller AA populations, Obama won. To suggest that Obama ONLY won because he took the AA vote from Hillary doesn't seem supported by the evidence. I'm not disputing the closeness of the race, just the conclusion that the AA vote was the difference.

[Beacool]

206. Oh, I don't disagree with you on that point.

I didn't start this thread. Although it's true that Obama had overwhelming AA support in the primaries (something like 9 out of 10).

[bigwillq]

156. I will NOT be voting for Hillary Clinton,

if she decides to run, thank you very much.

[Bluenorthwest]

162. That's simplistic at best, racist at worst. Barack Obama was a fucking great candidate and

an unstoppable wave of energy in 08. Forget about policy or what's gotten done since, he was flat out the finest candidate for any major office I have ever seen in my lifetime. He won because he beat all his rivals including Clinton. Just like he beat McCain, with elegance and ease.

[AtomicKitten]

235. very nicely said

and I agree

cheers

[Samantha]

169. Hillary's support of the petition to allow Bush* to war a pre-emptive attack on Iraq

cost her a lot of support from Democrats. Barack Obama opposed that war. That made a huge difference to many voters.

Sam

[cherokeeprogressive]

170. Teddy Kennedy endorsed Barack Obama Jan 28th. 8 days later Obama won Super Tuesday.

It was all downhill from there...

I think Hillary lost because of Teddy's endorsement. Prove me wrong.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

172. I think that endorsement by the Kennedys hurt the Clintons the most.

[cherokeeprogressive]

173. I think it pretty much sealed the deal. n/t

[gopiscrap]

175. that was some of it but the country at that time was tired of 28 years of Clinton/Bush

occupants in the WH

[coldmountain]

191. The Clinton era was the golden age of most baby boomers

[ForgoTheConsequence]

176. Racist post.

Obama didn't "take" anything, he fought for it and won it. He was the better candidate.

[elleng]

177. I knew from his presentation at Dem convention. Anyone else???

Didn't matter WHO ran against him.

[Whisp]

193. I didn't know him then.

It wasn't until the New Hampshire Yes We Can speech that it hit me that this was the one I pick.

Him, I pick HIM. The talented real one.

I was cheering on Kucinich previous to that. I knew he didn't have a chance but I liked him and his direct ways back then and he was different enough in what he said for me to anchor onto in order to enjoy the show.

[elleng]

220. Few of us knew him then, Whisp.

I just recognized the power of his thoughts and presentation and said, 'Oh Damn,' as I'd been supporting Wes Clark. Finally moved on to Joe Biden!

[ZombieHorde]

183. I don't know anything about that,

but I think Hillary Clinton's administration would be very similar to President Obama's administration. They seem very similar to me.

[coldmountain]

185. Few will be expecting a pony this time. It will be a reality based campaign

The pony has long left the barn

[ZombieHorde]

192. What were the ponies expected last time? nt

[coldmountain]

194. The end of war, the end of racism, single payer healthcare, less confrontational tone in DC

Obama was supposed to be different but actually did everything that Hillary said she was going to do, even won a Nobel peace prize on what he was supposed to do but ended up being another variation of the Clinton presidency. It's hard to watch TV this afternoon seeing Bill Clinton explaining Obamacare right in fron of Obama after being introduced by Hillary at the Clinton Global Initiative and deny that.

What cabinet member did Obama pick that wouldn't have fit in a Hillary adminsitration?

What policy did Obama pursue that Clinton wouldn't have?

[madrchsod]

186. really? obama took away hillary`s african america base?

hillary`s staff ran a shitty campaign and obama had is chicago crew that knew exactly what they were doing.

[coldmountain]

187. Now she gets Obama's team

Hillary Clinton 2016 might look a lot like Barack Obama 2012
By Chris Cillizza and Sean Sullivan, Published: July 29 at 6:30 am
President Obama and Hillary Rodham Clinton are having lunch today at the White House.

Earlier this month, Jeremy Bird, the national field director for Obama’s reelection race, and Mitch Stewart, who ran the 10 swing state operation for the president, signed on to “Ready for Hillary,” the super PAC that is functioning as a campaign-in-waiting for Clinton should she decide to run.
While the Bird/Stewart hires drew attention when they were announced, it’s hard to overestimate what the duo’s decision to work for a Clinton vehicle (and said vehicle’s willingness to have them) means going forward.
The single most valuable commodity in the race for the Democratic presidential nomination is the staff talent that Obama cultivated during his two presidential campaigns. While some of the top names — David Plouffe, David Axelrod, Jim Messina, Dan Pfeiffer etc. — are Obama-ites through and through and won’t likely ever work on another presidential campaign, there is a whole layer of staff talent beneath them that is itching to bring what they learned in 2008 and/or 2012 to bear on another campaign. Bird and Stewart are at, or near, the top of that list — due in no small part to their expertise in building a field operation, a major weak spot of Clinton’s 2008 campaign.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-fix/wp/2013/07/29/hillary-clinton-2016-might-look-a-lot-like-barack-obama-2012/

[Whisp]

188. I don't think that is going to work.

even if some of Obama's people are with her, it cannot be the same as was with him. These things are not transferrable, handy things you can ship to someone in a can and expect the same results.

There won't be another team like Obama's, ever. If Hillary runs and takes on some of that team, it would be like having leftovers.

[coldmountain]

190. It's not going to be the same for anybody, the pony has ran out of the barn and won't return

Obama 2008 brought an optimism that won't return.

[coldmountain]

195. For all the acrimony from 2008, the Obama administration has been another Clinton administration

[JustAnotherGen]

196. Well

We have three more years my friend. What will you be doing in 2014?

If you have time - volunteer for the Buono campaign - phone banking can be done from anywhere. You want your Clinton to win you better stop Christie now. He won't be as nice as Obama to SOS Clinton. And he will get votes for it.

[DonCoquixote]

197. first woman president

would Margaret Thatcher suit you, or Palin, Or Connie Rice, Or Nikki Haley?

Sorry, gender is not enough, nor any minority bit enough, and this comes from a Latino that VOMITS at the idea of a president Marco Rubio or Ted Cruz. I do not care how they habla Espanol, these people are so hateful that yes, i would even support Clinton against them, were she the Democratic Nominee.

Fortunately we have things called primaries, where I intend to see that someone more in line with the actual values of democrats gets the nod.

By the way, repeating RW memes about African Americans is a great way to make sure they do not vote for you; Hillary learned THAT lesson in 2008 after she refused to make Mark Penn and Bill Clinton knock it off with the "we got mugged" joke.

[blogslut]

198. Bless your heart.

[YoungDemCA]

199. Um..Obama had a coalition of African Americans, white liberals, young people, well-educated types...

...and others, ever since his days as an Illinois State Senator from Chicago.

So yeah...I don't buy this OP.

[longship]

201. What a silly, ignorant argument.

First, it's post hoc. Second, it's irrelevant since Hillary Clinton lost, for whatever reason she lost.

Noting that more A-A voters chose Obama after the fact is irrelevant. Hillary lost. And that's not to malign Ms. Clinton in any way.

More Democrats chose Obama, too. Hell, more independent voters chose Obama as well. One can split it any way one wants to. And the result will be the same. In 2008, Barack Obama won the nomination and Hillary Clinton didn't. No one demographic can be assigned as the cause of that result if it's post hoc. I could possibly come up with many alternative theories that would be supported by the data. It's easy when one does it after the fact.

In short, this is utter silliness.

[malaise]

202. That is a mindblowing statement

[wyldwolf]

203. Get an African American or Latino veep and she probably walks into the white house

[bobduca]

214. Hells yeah, Time for Hil to go shopping for an ethnic running mate!

Accessorize!

[coldmountain]

229. Republicans and Teabaagers have nightmares about that scenario

Hillary for 8 years and then her Hispanic running mate for 8 years. But some want to do the Don Quixote and run someone too far left to win and let the rightwing off the hook to pull the right out of it's death spiral. It's better for liberals to put their effort into wiining the Senate, the House and state capitals like the ALEC/Teabagger crowd has been so successful at doing then we can support/pressure Hillary.

[randome]

204. We do not like the Hill and Bill. We do not like them, coldmountain-ill.

[hr][font color="blue"][center]Treat your body like a machine. Your mind like a castle.[/center][/font][hr]

[scheming daemons]

205. ...is a shit statement

[stevenleser]

209. As a Hillary supporter, I think this is some of the worst advocacy for her imaginable.

I can't believe you actually think this is helpful.

[Gothmog]

226. While I voted for President Obama, I intend to support Clinton and I agree with your analysis

I could have easily supported Hillary Clinton in 2008. It was a close call but I ended up supporting President Obama. I had some good friends who were supporting Sen. Clinton and if she was the Democratic nominee, I would have supported her in the general election. Senator Clinton would had no trouble beating McCain or any other GOP nominee that year.

The OP and the theme of this thread is not helping Sec. of State Clinton one bit. Right now, I am planning on strongly supporting her in the 2016 primaries and general election. I like Joe Biden but I think that Clinton will be our best candidate. I also think that this thread is not helpful at all to her campaign.

[coldmountain]

227. What I should have said was that Obama was a transformational figure that the 2016 race won't have

What I should have said was that Obama was a transformational figure that 2016 candidates won't have to deal with.

I like Obama and support him but progressives should have been warned when he kept espousing all that Reagan love. I also feel he got a free pass as being the "peace candidate". I really think Hillary would have governed more to the left regardless of how she campaigned. I think that Obama campaigned to the left of her but has governed to the right.

You're right I didn't help. It's not right all the Hillary hate on DU, repeating right wing propaganda and even comparing her to Margaret Thatcher and such and it made me angry and I should have made my point better.

[David__77]

215. Plenty of racist whites voted for Clinton over Obama.

And I think more than a few of them were sexist, but their racial chauvinism overcame that. There will not ever by a President Hillary Clinton, but for a number of reasons - not just one.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

216. Barack Obama also was charismatic and had a great life story.

I find the argument that "because Barack Obama upset her any candidate can" silly...

He was an exceptional candidate.

[tavernier]

217. Of course there were blacks who voted for BO

because he is black... But also because he is smart and charismatic and all that other necessary stuff. Compare him to the repug black candidate who was an embarrassment to his race; I doubt any blacks would have voted for him.
I'll vote for Hillary because its time for a woman, but it can't be just any woman.

[Grateful for Hope]

221. What?

[Orsino]

223. You mean more people supported Obama?

What a clever trick!

[Rex]

224. Geez, a little early to be fighting over 2016.

Can't we at least wait a few years before doing this?

[Mr Dixon]

225. Really? SMH

I'm pretty sure some White people voted for him too. SMH