If I were Obama, I would "compromise" on this

[think_critically]

If I were the president I would trade a one year delay in the individual mandate for an up or down vote on immigration reform in the house. The mandate is only 95 bucks this year and has no teeth at all so we wouldn't be loosing much. Dumb idea or not?

[Safetykitten]

1. Even I as a critic of the plan do not think this is a good idea.

[shraby]

2. Did you have a glitch in your connection and somehow get on the wrong site?

[NuclearDem]

3. I wouldn't.

We said no ice cream after dinner, and no temper tantrum will change that.

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

4. No. That is not thinking critically at all.

The mid terms are next year. A delay in the ACA would be seen as a victory for the Republicans and a failure for the Democrats, and then they might have the ability to hold PBO hostage again and again: long enough to pick up some Senate seats.

[Avalux]

5. Let me use my critical thinking skills to answer your question -- Dumb Idea. n/t

[seabeyond]

6. goodness i am seeing so many newer members with a style of name telling us how clever the repugs are

that ultimately they won and how obama should give in one way or another.

hmmmm

2 + 2 =

[bunnies]

27. Hey!

Laugh at Ted Cruz at your peril!

[Laelth]

30. In all fairness ...

I think a lot of people are taking a new look at the Democratic Party today. While I (obviously) don't think much of the OP's suggestion, we might want to be extra-nice (and I am sorry to pick on you, personally, but I know you can take it).



-Laelth

[seabeyond]

34. lol.

ya

i totally embrace your notion. just like three posts in a row that i enetered, is all.

[Laelth]

37. See? I knew you could.

btw, missed you for a long spell earlier this year. glad you're o.k.

-Laelth

[seabeyond]

58. thank you

[cui bono]

35. You're right. I'm going to keep that in mind.

Also, a lot of people are probably googling ACA and shutdown and being led here by their searches.

[Zorra]

7. Yeh, dumb idea, but a cool story, bro! Thanks for your concern.

[Peacetrain]

8. Absolutely NOT.. no no no

It is funded..going forward. There is nothing to compromise. That is the craziness of the republican position. It is funded.. It is going forward. There is no there .. there..

[Hutzpa]

9. Go away

Dumb Idea, dumb effing idea.

[Ellipsis]

10. But you're not.

[Gothmog]

11. The individual mandate is the key to the coverage of pre-existing conditions

If you eliminate the individual mandate, then you also have to eliminate coverage for pre-existing conditions. That part of the Affordable Care Act is really a key part of the act. The dissents in the SCOTUS opinion took it as a given that if the individual mandate was eliminated, then the rest of the act would have to be held void

[phleshdef]

13. How about we redirect money from oil subsidies to cover the cost of the mandate for 1 year...

...for anyone that didn't comply with it.

But actually, I'd all for President Obama making outrageous "compromise" offers for shits and giggles. That would be hilarious.

Like, he'll delay the mandate for one year, but they also have to fund adding his likeness onto Mount Rushmore, wild shit like that.

[HappyMe]

14. Oh boy! That's funny.

Very high on the dumb idea list.

You don't reward a tantrum with candy.

[tridim]

15. The ACA is the LAW. Deal with it.

It is not a "bill", and it is not what Faux News and the Republicans tell you it is.

[Raffi Ella]

21. Hear hear!

welcome to DU.

[Xyzse]

17. No, not at all

1 - Too much has already been put in place. Insurance companies and all the human and program infrastructure that has been done for the launch will wreak havoc on the industry. They delay this, it would only mean that insurance premiums would rise like crazy.
2 - It would cost us money for the delay. In regards to this cost, I suggest to look it up. It is no secret.

I am sorry, but no.

It is amazing how they would provide all these supposed compromises without looking at the effects of delay. Dumb, even if I am not particularly enamored with the law, delay creates uncertainty and uncertainty causes problems.

That is what the Republicans have wrought. Uncertainty.

[Pretzel_Warrior]

18. Wow. Another one of these dumb "delay" threads

[Raffi Ella]

19. They lost the election and ObamaCare is law.

And it's "losing" not "loosing".

[Dyedinthewoolliberal]

20. Dumb

and hardly critical thinking............ (you asked!)

[IdaBriggs]

22. ROFL! And this is why you are not President.

Or the candidate you probably voted for - because anyone who has been paying attention knows they aren't just looking for a "delay" they are looking to kill the whole thing, and if he gives in now, he and all future presidents will simply be figure heads to whoever throws the biggest congressional temper tantrum on *any* piece of future legislation enacted.

This isn't a negotiation. This is currently the law, and the folks who are being pissy because they LOST THE LAST ELECTION when they could have proven that the majority of the voting population doesn't want this apparently DOES WANT IT, and the biggest complaint is that it has been taking too long already.

And if you aren't a right wing troll and are just a new DU person who has missed the posts from fellow DUers talking about how they will probably DIE within the next year if they don't get access to health care, my apologies for assuming MIRT will be giving you a Pizza tombstone soon.

Oh, and if you are good with fellow DU folk - or anyone in this country, for that matter - dying from lack of health care, you really don't belong here.

[think_critically]

29. Did you even read what I wrote

I said delay the mandate, not the law. Nobody is going to sign up for health care b/c they are afraid of a 95 dollar fine. Keep the exchanges running just take away the mandate. I don't agree with this but it might be a way to smoke boehner and his wacko caucus out. Lastly, why is it that every time someone posts something that folks may or may not agree to they get accused of being a right wing troll. I can't stand those people and it pisses me off when folks through that label at me.

[IdaBriggs]

32. Yes, I did. It sounded like something a Republican member of the House thinks is a good idea.

Last edited Tue Oct 15, 2013, 12:35 PM - Edit history (1)

If you find yourself thinking NON-MODERATE Republicans have a good plan, odds are good you aren't going to find support at a Democratic website.

Boehner and his wackos are already smoked out. They are looking like fools, and the more they campaign against Obamacare (as more people discover what a good deal it is), the worse they look.

And like I said, there is the whole "make the Executive branch powerless" -- seriously,

Do you understand that tying *anything* to a spending option is a bad idea?

As I said, if you aren't a "concern troll", please accept my apologies.

[think_critically]

39. you do know that an up or down vote on immigration reform is what Obama wants right

The republicans would HATE having to take an up or down vote b/c the bill would pass and give Obama a HUGE victory. He would be the president who got immigration and health reform done during his presidency. That was my main point.

[IdaBriggs]

45. What makes you think he can't get that done already? He *already* did health care reform.

As much as they want to whine about it, it is a done deal - unless he gives in and "delays it" until they can repeal it.

[think_critically]

49. it's delaying the mandate not the law

Look i'm not saying that it's good to delay the mandate. I'm just saying that if I were him I would call their bluff and actually give them something to negotiate on. Also they can never repeal the ACA unless they win the white house and both houses of congress in 2016. Not gonna happen so it's impossible for them to do that.

[IdaBriggs]

54. Dude. Sigh. If this tactic works once, don't you think they'll use it again?

This time it is Obamacare. Next time it is a rider saying women can't use contraception and anyone who gets an abortion gets to go to jail, and after that it is about the uppity lower class getting money for college, and then forget about that crazy equal rights thing --

Get it? The Executive Branch can NOT govern that way. Heck, he can't even get them to do their jobs NOW and put judges in office, or get his appointed regulatory people in place -- and you want him to "compromise" on having *ANYTHING* they want added to a FUND THE GOVERNMENT resolution?

And as for your mythical "up or down" vote, what makes you think they will respect it? Even if it passes, they just have to put "don't implement it" on the next funding bill.

This was already voted on and they aren't honoring it. Only a fool would trust them at this point.

I hope I have explained how this works adequately.

[cui bono]

33. You are either purposely trying to spread RW memes or you are buying into them.

I suggest that rather than posting here you read a lot of threads, follow their links and read a lot of articles. Just make sure they are not written by whoever wrote the stuff you have been reading/watching lately.

Go read the post I linked to in my other reply to you.

[cui bono]

23. Do you like ACA or Obamacare better?

I might have just seen you in this video:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1017148797

Interesting though, that you put compromise in quotes, since that would not be a compromise at all - Dems have already offered compromises - that would be giving in to terrorist tactics and that's a dangerous thing to do. We wouldn't have been in this position if Obama and Dems had held out last time we went through a Tea Party tantrum.

[think_critically]

25. yea that's my point

These assholes would never agree with that. The point would be to prove that it's not about a negotiation. It's about hostage taking. You still have idiots in this country who can't see the difference.

[cui bono]

31. That was not the point I made. I did not agree with your OP in any way, shape or form.

There is no way we offer a delay for any reason.

It's already been proven that it's not about negotiation. That happened months ago.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023753684

[Orsino]

24. Really, we know what the calls for "delay" are about...

...particularly when they mention immigration reform.

2/10

[Laelth]

26. Help me see what you see.

What would be the great benefit to the American people of an up and down vote on immigration reform? Why would we sacrifice the ACA (the law of the land that the Republicans can not repeal) for a chance at immigration reform?



-Laelth

[FourScore]

28. Ha! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! ...No seriously...

Ha! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA!Ha! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA!Ha! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA!Ha! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA!Ha! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA!Ha! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA!Ha! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA!Ha! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA!Ha! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA!Ha! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA!Ha! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA!Ha! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA!Ha! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA!Ha! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA!Ha! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA!Ha! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA!Ha! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA!Ha! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA!Ha! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA!Ha! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA!Ha! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA!Ha! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA!Ha! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA!Ha! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA!Ha! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA!Ha! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA!Ha! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA!Ha! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA!

[sibelian]

36. Please find somewhere else to post.

You're wasting our time.

[Chan790]

38. I'm going to take the tactful position and not reject out of hand the notion.

I've long argued that in any political fight everything has to be on the table for negotiation, in the name of best governance and reasonable politics. What does not have to be reasonable is the respective cost that either side attaches to those chips. So, in that spirit...I won't say ACA delay is non-negotiable; nothing is non-negotiable.

That said...I place a very high value on the ACA and its implementation ASAP. If the GOP wants it delayed a year, I have to think that is in pursuit of a climate better suited to its total repeal and as such, the cost to the GOP would have to be more than one or two sacred cows and a float of several strategic positions. If they want to talk about ACA repeal qua ACA delay then they better be prepared to discuss marginal-rate tax increases, capital-gains reform in pursuit of increased revenues, inclusion of a longer-term debt ceiling increase, gun control, immigration reform and campaign finance. They better be coming to the table with their own healthcare reform proposal and it better be acceptable to the American public.

In short, if they want to talk about repealing healthcare reform now that it is the law of the land, they better be prepared to hand the president a number of unilateral wins across the board substantial enough that there is no way anybody is in the least bit confused over who lost this showdown.

[Eddie Haskell]

40. If I were Obama, I'd de-fund the Capitol police.

Let the people descend on the House. (insert picture w/ pitchforks and torches)

[sufrommich]

41. *losing* and how about "no". nt

[lostincalifornia]

42. The individual mandate is necessary to make it work. 95 bucks may not seem like a lot but we are

Talking millions.

Healthy young folks signing up will pay low premiums anyway, and if incomes are below the limits they will qualify for subsidies

The ACA must be given the best chance to work from the start. The critics and their media proxies want to do everything to see it fails.

There are a significant number of people who will be helped by this. It is not perfect, but it will be tweaked as issues arrive

[think_critically]

51. look at what I'm saying

My point is that people will sign up b/c of the value of the plans not b/c of the mandate at first. If you were a young person and only cared about money and you had the choice between paying a hundred bucks a month for health care or 95 bucks out of your tax return which one would you pick. The mandate right now is not much of a mandate and I'm saying that it might be something relatively insignificant to bargain on in order to get landmark legislation and in so doing destroy the republican party as it is now.

[lostincalifornia]

65. The way the calculations go, the younger a person is, the cheaper the premium. In fact, in many of

those cases, the premium will not be that much more than the penalty.

If the first day is any indicator, it sure looks like a good turnout to get information and/or signup. In fact from what I have read it exceeded the expectation, especially considering that the media has been giving much more coverage to the lies and misrepresentations by the republicans, this is amazing.

It also seems to demonstrate that the fourth estate and polls are not presenting an accurate picture.

Same thing happened in 2012, we were hearing that the Democrats were going to lose both houses and the Presidency.

Funny we don't hear much about their prognostic abilities in that case

[MNBrewer]

43. So then there's delayed ACA *and* no immigration reform?

BRILLIANT!!!!

[Th1onein]

44. And I'm sure most people are really happy that you are not Obama. What an idiotic compromise.

If we allow the Rethugs to delay Obamacare one year? WE LOSE THE 2014 ELECTIONS.

[think_critically]

55. for the love of God

it is not delaying Obamacare. It's delaying the mandate which only consists of the irs witholding 95 bucks from somebody's tax return. That is hardly a mandate at this point.

[Gothmog]

59. You are ignoring the fact that the mandate is a key part of the ACA

You can not grant coverage for pre-existing conditions without the mandate. The only way for your "plan" to work is to allow insurance companies to continue to exclude persons for pre-existing conditions which will destroy the ACA

[IdaBriggs]

46. Wait a moment - are you being "Evil Genius"?

And saying, the MANDATE for it for the public isn't enforced, but the states have to offer it, and ANYONE WHO WANTS IT can have it?

ON EDIT: See post #42 for why it isn't a good idea.

[think_critically]

53. Yes

Look at my reply to post 42. The states will most certainly still have to offer it with all of the subsidies and regulations that are there now. All this would do is delay the irs from keeping that 95 dollars from people's tax returns if they don't have insurance. The mandate at this point is quite flimsy.

[spanone]

47. if i were Obama i would tell them to stick it up their asses.

but he's a diplomat, i am not.

[FLyellowdog]

48. Would I still get my pony? nt

[pnwmom]

50. If we were going to trade it for anything -- which I don't recommend --

it should be for a year of Medicare-for-all.

[Kingofalldems]

52. Never trust a republican.

[florida08]

56. the penalty on the mandate

goes up over time.

The consequences for not purchasing health insurance in 2014 are modest; however, penalties will continue to rise until 2016. In 2014, the penalty will be $95 or 1% of the family’s annual income- whichever is greater- per adult ($47.50 per child) or a maximum of $285 per family. However, by 2016, this will have increased to $695 or 2.5% of the family’s annual income- again whichever is greater- per adult, or a maximum of $2,085 per family.

http://ahinsurance.blogspot.com/2013/08/approaching-2014-and-acas-individual.html

It's a dumb idea but why do you think states mandated car or homeowners insurance? Because many would rather buy a new iphone than get health coverage. My grown kids are a good example. They don't like it either but I feel better knowing they have to have it.

[florida08]

57. just to add

the insurance companies would have never gone along without the mandate. All they would have had sign up are people who are in need right now. They need healthy customers to help cover the costs of the elderly who tend to need more healthcare generally speaking

[TBF]

60. Would you really? And do you give a shit about the people who die

during the year without health care?

This is getting really tiresome.

[GeorgeGist]

61. Lazy math.

Under the new rules, individuals choosing not to carry insurance are subject to a penalty of $95 per person each year, or 1% of household income, whichever is greater, beginning in 2014

With a median wage of ~$30,000 and 2 incomes, that would be $600/year.

[Earth_First]

62. So much for critical thinking.... nt

[think_critically]

64. do you even get it

you do understand that I am not suggesting that he postpone the entire law for a year right?

[durablend]

63. Another dingbat for the ignore file

Boy is it growing!

[MineralMan]

66. I'm not sure you're living up to your screen name.

I'm not seeing any critical thinking in your post, which makes a very bad suggestion.

[cali]

67. Not just no, but FUCK NO. HELL NO. NO DAMN WAY NO. NO. NO. NO.

what the hell is wrong with people suggesting this shit?

[think_critically]

69. do you think i'm suggesting postponing the entire law?

Is this what you think?

[cali]

70. No. I think you're suggesting crippling it. Fuck that idiocy.

the disgusting, disgraceful repukes failed legislatively so they're holding the country hostage and shutting down the government. fuck them. fuck anyone supporting them. fuck them with a rusty farm implement.

[think_critically]

71. not true

Like I've continuously said. I do not believe delaying the mandate would cripple the law b/c it's only 95 bucks per person. People are signing up now b/c of the benefit to them not b/c of the mandate b/c the mandate is very weak in 2014. The republicans would probably never agree to the up or down vote on immigration but in the off chance that they did that would be a major victory for Obama b/c it would certainly pass with democratic support. Passing this would also help us get rid of these assholes in congress once and for all.

[Heidi]

68. "Loosing," huh? That's a dead giveaway. (nt)