If a Dem is an anti-gun nut - they will never be elected to national office

[banned from Kos]

That is why I LOVE Senator Gillibrand.

Truth needs to be told.

(also Brian Scwheitzer) is great national Pres material.

An anti-gun fanatic is an automatic LOSER.

[bluestateguy]

1. That is true (sort of)

Gillibrand, though, began walking back her previous pro-gun stance as soon as she was a statewide official. I think the NRA now rates her as like a C or C-. As a congresswoman she got A ratings.

I agree about Schweitzer, but would he make it past the first primaries and the likely barrage of attacks from anti-gun Democrats seeking to tear him down? I could just see it, late 2015/early 2016, Schweitzer and some gun grabber are duking it out in a primary and the gun grabber starts playing the "gun violence" card shamelessly.

[seeviewonder]

2. Liberals have guns, too.

But most of us understand the need for realistic gun control measures.

[Skittles]

7. something paranoid asshats will NEVER understand

[TheWraith]

9. Define "realistic."

Some people here on DU think that banning anything other than muzzle loaders locked up in a vault at a gun club is a "realistic" and "reasonable" measure.

The reality is that despite some people's perceptions, the flaws in current gun laws actually have nothing really to do with gun laws. They have to do with the drug laws that encourage gang warfare, and to a much lesser extent the difficulty with finding mental illness before a person snaps.

[seeviewonder]

14. I think keeping guns out of the hands of

someone with a mental illness is the easiest way to reduce gun violence (see Loughner). Other than that, I think we should do our best to keep guns away from gangs. I'm not sure of the best way to do that, but we need to understand that people will end up with guns even if we don't think they should have them. Most people are responsible with guns and other weapons but it seems like those who do not use them respectably cast a pall over the rest of us.

[TexasBill]

19. There are already laws...

The Gun Control Act of 1968 made it a federal offense to sell a firearm to a person if they have been "adjudicated mentally defective (which includes a determination by a court. board. commission, or other lawful authority that (they) are a danger to (themselves) or to others or are incompetent to manage (their) own affairs) OR have (they) ever been committed to a mental institution?"

In the case of Jared Loughner, the gunman in the Gabrielle Giffords shooting, there was ample evidence he wasn't dealing from a full deck. But nobody would take the responsibility for even committing him for observation, so there was no record of his troubles and the NICS system showed him as clean. The background check system didn't fail; the people who should have taken action that could have prevented the tragedy failed.

On the other hand, we don't want to go too far. Soldiers returning from Iraq and Afghanistan who were treated or sought treatment for post-traumatic stress disorder are finding they can't even buy a .22 caliber rifle. I think theres something wrong there; if the soldier is really severely affected and requires hospitalization and care to deal with the demons, thats one thing. If it's a GI just looking for some counseling because what he saw in combat is keeping him up a night, that's another.

Keeping guns out of the hands of gangs: don't think anyone would disagree with you there. The reality is most gang members don't traipse into Cabelas, Gander Mountain or Bass Pro Shops to pick up that nifty Glock or el cheapo Bryco. For one thing, by the time they are old enough to legally buy a handgun, they probably already have a conviction that would bar them from owning one. Especially in some of the worst areas for gang problems, like Los Angeles. In addition, youth recruiting ensures many gang members are too young to legally possess a firearm without adult supervision.

Illicit guns are passed around like candy. Many are stolen or purchased illegally. Some are even stolen from cops or National Guard armories. Some come over the border from the drug cartels (which, despite much media blather, actually get the majority of their guns from arms dealers or the Mexican police or military).

It may surprise some of you to know that Thompson submachine guns used to be available over-the-counter-no-questions-asked at the hardware store. In fact, an early Thompson ad showed a rancher chasing off rustlers with his Tommy Gun. It wasn't until Pretty Boy Floyd, Bonnie & Clyde, Baby-Faced Nelson and the gangs in Chicago, Detroit and other cities selected them for business use that the U.S. government passed the Firearms Act of 1934 which required a hard-to-get tax stamp to buy or sell a machine gun, sawed-off shotgun, or dangerous device.

[seeviewonder]

21. I moved to Iowa last year and it is much easier to obtain a firearm there.

Coming from Illinois (where a person is required to possess a FOID card), it is like night and day when it comes to being able to purchase a gun. I know that Iowa has a statute against anyone that has inpatient treatment for mental illness from obtaining a firearn, and I'm sure most other states do as well. I completely agree with you in the case of soldiers that have just sought counseling. And the Loughner issue was a bad deal all around. I didn't know all the history of his mental problems until you pointed out that nobody reported anything abnormal (officially). That was ridiculous.

[metalbot]

22. Illinois FOID card is something of a joke

In order to own or purchase a firearm or ammunition in Illinois, if you are an Illinois resident, you must first obtain a FOID card. There's an application that you have to fill out. Under what circumstances would that application be denied?

Well, the answer is: under the exact same circumstances under which your purchase of a firearm would be denied in another state that had no FOID system.

I'd challenge you to point to any crime that was committed in any state without a FOID card (that would be, the other 49 states) that would have been prevented by those other states having a FOID card rule.

[seeviewonder]

26. I completely agree with your point.

The FOID card is an absoultely stupid idea. I see it as nothing more than increasing state revenues (which could be done in better ways). They do the exact same NICS check as other states, the only difference is that the ISP control the check. The Illinois State Police is seen as a corrupt agency by many people in Illinois (including myself when I lived there), but that is another story entirely and is for another forum.

[TexasBill]

20. Lots of them

The results of a poll conducted last year showed that about 40% of Democrats own guns and about 50% of American households contain one or more guns of some type. Not surprisingly, a higher percentage of Republicans own guns.

Incidentally, considering how paranoid some gunowners are about admitting they own guns, I would say it's likely that more than half of all households have at least one firearm.

[Spider Jerusalem]

3. Nicely loaded language here

and I'm not sure that this has been much if at all an issue since...the '90's? The Democratic Party has come to realise that there are just far too many pro-gun nuts for gun control to be a positive issue (and honestly a one-size-fits-all, national gun control policy isn't workable anyway; rural Iowa or Montana isn't DC or Baltimore).

[ForgoTheConsequence]

4. Not always.

This is probably more true for the senate. But for the house where district's are represented its not true at all. Kucinich for example wants to ban all hand guns.

[Ter]

8. Sen. Chuck Schumer is the definition of anti-gun

n/t

[TexasBill]

18. Well, except for that handgun permit...

Diane Feinstein is another example of this.

[Skittles]

6. so pro-gun nuts are A-OK

[safeinOhio]

11. Bingo.

[ellisonz]

10. Silly simplistic post.

BTW Two Words: Bill Clinton

[safeinOhio]

12. two more words

Big Cities.

[Cali_Democrat]

15. two more words

small communities

[2ndAmForComputers]

13. Isn't there a forum reserved for this kind of... um... thing?

[metalbot]

23. There is

But it's a mistake to sweep this there. Gun control remains a major issue that prevents people from voting for Democratic candidates. In the same way that abortion tends to force people to the Democratic party, gun control issues force people to the Republican party. It's a shame that we shuttle all of these threads off to the gungeon. There would be no support for shuttling all abortion/BC threads to a separate forum. Why do it when it comes to gun rights?

[mmonk]

16. Not necessarily true. All wingnuts think Obama is anti-gun

and the NRA makes calls saying Obama is going to confiscate guns. But yet, he was elected.

[TexasBill]

17. The truth embarrasses the GOP

I don't for a moment think President Obama is pro-gun. But I do think he is smart. All he has to do is look at the Blair Holt Act Rep. Bobby Rush introduced for three consecutive sessions of Congress. While the NRA was going ballistic over it, warning the faithful of imminent doom if they didn't contribute (I know: I am an NRA member and get the mailings), the bill was referred to a sub-committee where it was ignored and died when the session ended. This was true even when the Democrats held both houses.

That's the same thing that happened to Rep. McCarthy's bill in this session.

The reality is that President Obama has done more for gun owners and gun rights in four year than George Bush and his NRA-lovin' Congress did in eight. Which isn't hard: they did nothing at all. In fact, Bush said multiple times during the 2000 campaign that he would sign a renewal of the Assault Weapons Ban if it came to his desk and his attorney-general filed an brief supporting the city of Washington, D.C. in the Heller case.

Some things the GOP doesn't talk about: GWB's father, Bush the First, wanted all guns except sporting rifles and shotguns banned. Ronald Reagan signed sweeping gun control legislation while he was governor of California and supported the Brady Act. Gerald Ford was a strong proponent of gun control and Richard Nixon once told William Safire that he wished all guns could be abolished. Mitt Romney also signed gun control legislation while he was governor of Massachusetts, but he's pro-gun now, dontcha' know.

Obama, on the other hand, hasn't really pushed hard for any gun control legislation; he knows it won't pass. And he signed the bill allowing persons with handgun permits to carry their guns in national parks.

For those keeping score, that's Obama 1, GOP 0.

[2ndAmForComputers]

24. If I may be blunt, then why do you keep on giving those wretched people your hard-earned money?

Seriously, they're a GOP front, not the issue advocacy group they claim to be.

Being pro-RKBA is perfectly OK. Enabling the NRA is not.

[metalbot]

25. While I totally agree, the problem is with the "he is smart" part.

Not that I don't think Obama is smart.

The right is going to argue that Obama is going to wait until his second term to support gun control, because then he won't have to worry about re-election.

I'm strongly pro gun rights. I'm fairly sure that Obama is not, and that he's smart enough to not touch gun rights in his first term. Second term? If congress handed him an assault rifle ban similar to the '96 ban, I'm very sure he would sign it (as Bush would have and I'm sure Romney would as well). He could take a lot of ammo away from the right by simply saying categorically that he would NOT sign any bills that restricted gun ownership at a federal level in his second term.