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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsSaudi black op team behind Damascus chem weapons attack – diplomatic sources.
The August chemical weapons attack in the Syrian capital’s suburbs was done by a Saudi Arabian black operations team, Russian diplomatic sources have told a Russian news agency.
“Based on data from a number of sources a picture can be pieced together. The criminal provocation in Eastern Ghouta was done by a black op team that the Saudi’s sent through Jordan and which acted with support of the Liwa Al-Islam group,” a source in the diplomatic circles told Interfax.
The attack and its consequences had a huge impact on the Syrian situation, another source said.
“Syrians of various political views, including some opposition fighters, are seeking to inform diplomats and members of international organizations working in Syria what they know about the crime and the forces which inspired it,” he told the agency.
Liwa Al-Islam is an Islamist armed group operating near Damascus headed by the son of a Saudi-based Salafi cleric. The group claimed responsibility for the bombing of a secret governmental meeting in Damascus in July 2012 that killed a number of top Syrian officials, including Defense Minister Dawoud Rajiha, his deputy Asef Shawkat, and Assistant Vice President Hassan Turkmani.
http://rt.com/news/syria-sarin-saudi-provocation-736/
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Cali_Democrat
(30,439 posts)
dipsydoodle
(42,239 posts)For those interest in the back ground to that advance search : RT as search term , forum or group main , thread titles , search Oct 2012 to Oct 2013.
That is not a complaint - simply a statement of recorded fact.
pnwmom
(110,261 posts)It's a mouthpiece of the Russian government.
Some DUers proudly get all their news from this "independent" source...
Don't ruin it for them!
arely staircase
(12,482 posts)JackRiddler
(24,979 posts)NBC, FOX, ETC.
These are independent news sources! Not mouthpieces of governments or of corporate owners or ideologies.
Only RT and other non-US-UK furrners are mouthpieces.
pnwmom
(110,261 posts)In that respect, it doesn't compare to any of the US networks.
Turborama
(22,109 posts)You can read about their editorial integrity and independence from external interests here: http://www.bbc.co.uk/editorialguidelines/page/guidelines-editorial-integrity-introduction/
If you think they are a "mouthpiece for the government" you can voice your concerns here: http://stakeholders.ofcom.org.uk/broadcasting/broadcast-codes/broadcast-code/impartiality/
JackRiddler
(24,979 posts)I'm sure RT also has a statement of editorial integrity. Possibly even FOX has one.
As for BBC, I don't have to read their organizational PR. I actually watch it - a lot more than RT (from which I generally see only clips posted on Web, sometimes excellent ones, sometimes obvious Russian state propaganda).
What happens on BBC every time UK-US drives toward a new war - a more sophisticated rendering of CNN, but no less emotionally charged - says enough for me. When it counts, they are a mouthpiece for the UK government and, generally, neoliberal politics.
Here's a recent example of BBC at work as a mouthpiece in the most egregious way:
Turborama
(22,109 posts)Here: http://www.bbc.co.uk/complaints/
I can't find any complaints procedures for Russia Today.
Even though complaints about the BBC aren't handled by Ofcom, it is an independent regulator. Russia has one of those you can write to?
And you're going to ignore what the BBC has to adhere to by law?
I think we're done here.
JackRiddler
(24,979 posts)I'm sure they have wonderful laws. Do you watch BBC?
Chan790
(20,176 posts)Some examples of US state-run news organs are Armed Forces Radio Network, Radio Free Europe/Radio Liberty, Radio y Televisión Martí and Al Hurra.
I live in DC and like that I get AFR over public airwaves...but let's just say that I wouldn't have turned to them for honest coverage of the My Lai massacre or believed their reporting in the aftermath accusing NLF irregular militants of having actually been behind the attack without confirmation from another source unrelated to a state-run news organ of the US government.
Frankly, since this is the fourth or fifth different group or people RT has accused of this attack, their credibility therein was shot long ago...all RT coverage of this attack should be considered too suspect to stand on DU unless verified and reported by another news entity from sources unrelated to RT's citations.
joshcryer
(62,536 posts)
Barack_America
(28,876 posts)
Benton D Struckcheon
(2,347 posts)Is there a reason to retransmit this propaganda? Neither the US nor the UK are planning any strikes, the CW is going to be disposed of. Russia can keep its precious little Med port and pretend it's still a world power with its SC veto and all, and Putin can go back to riding bears bareback, and whatever else he wants to ride bareback.
No, we don't give a shit, Putin.
BluegrassStateBlues
(881 posts)Or is it meant to be a real news site?
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)than our own lying Corporate Media. Excellent documentaries, real journalists, I can understand why people who have become accustomed to the fairy tales we get on our Corporate media from phony 'journalists' who simply read memos have a difficult time with a real news agency.
It does have a bit of a bias to the Left though, and we do get to hear real Liberal voices who are all but banned from the Corporate media, so the far Right eg, are not overly fond of it.
It is one of my favorite news sources. I have noticed the attempt to demonize it, which means it's scary to those who are not much interested in allowing real news to penetrate to the American people. We are so insulated here.
It's a favorite of people who want real news. Compare it's morning Headline News roundup eg, to the Corporate media's offerings. Unbelievable what passes for 'reliable' and even more so 'news' in this country these days.
arely staircase
(12,482 posts)sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)Gay Movement, superb dialogue on Gay Rights issues on Russia, far more than I've seen on the Corporate media.
Btw, does our media cover the horrific Gay Rights abuses of Saudi Arabia or Bahrain or Uzbekistan, all close Allies of the US? RT has. There is a silence on those issues on our Corporate Media.
arely staircase
(12,482 posts)Reporter James Kirchick was kicked off the air of Russian TV Wednesday after he refused to talk about Bradley Manning and instead spoke about the Russian government's anti-gay laws.
dipsydoodle
(42,239 posts)if the interviewee complelely changed the subject to disuss a wholly different issue than that intended regardless of what the dual issues were.
arely staircase
(12,482 posts)but everything he said, including "you call yourself a news organization?" and "how do you sleep at night?" was right on the money. their "coverage" of LGBT (lack of) rights in Putin's Russia has been "fair and balanced" - as in giving air time to the guy who says our "hearts should be burned" as one legit side of the issue. Just because a real news channel might do it too, doesn't make them a real news channel.
Fuck Putin and his anti-gay pogrom.
Fuck his propaganda organ RT.
joshcryer
(62,536 posts)
Ash_F
(5,861 posts)RT's American counterpart, Voice of American, didn't touch gay rights with a ten foot pole until the Supreme Court made it's recent ruling against the Defense of Marriage Act, even though this country was hotly debating it for a long time prior. It never gave a similar platform to gay rights activists, even since then, to my knowledge. VoA is way less likely to challenge the status quo than RT.
As a preemption, the point is not to say that gay rights are in a better spot in Russia than the US, it is clearly worse in Russia. But to claim RT is a news organization completely chained to the whim of the Russian government is just wrong. What that looks like can be understood by turning your attention to VoA.
Cali_Democrat
(30,439 posts)"Russia Today is a self-described “news” channel that happens to be owned and operated by the Russian government, and therefore serves as a reliable outlet for whatever Russian President Vladimir Putin would like you to believe is “news.” It tends to get some measure of credibility among American bloggers, largely by booking said bloggers on its programs (including, regrettably, the editor of this web site, but just once and he’s sorry). Which is why it’s somewhat ironic that RT has twisted the generally reliable work of Syria-blogger Brown Moses to fuel Putin’s conspiracy theory that Syrian rebels are behind the sarin gas attack that the Assad regime unleashed on civilians last month.
Yesterday, RT aired footage purporting to show Syrian rebels initiating the gas attack, using the fact that the videos had been posted by Brown Moses—whom RT described as a “prominent Syria blogger” who had been “focusing on the Syrian conflict for the last couple of years, analyzing claims and counterclaims”—as a peg. The only problem: the footage was fabricated, and the Brown Moses—in reality an Englishman named Eliot Higgins—had openly doubted their authenticity, right there on his blog.
On Monday, Higgins linked to several videos originally uploaded to LiveLeak that appear to indicate that Liwa al-Islam, a Syrian rebel group, had a hand in the August 21 poison gas attack in the Damascus suburb of Ghouta. However, Higgins noted several discrepancies that suggested the footage was faked."
http://gawker.com/russia-today-airs-fake-footage-of-rebels-using-sarin-ga-1342865358
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)Rofl!! You call Gawker a 'reliable News Source'??? I don't think even THEY claim to be that.
RT is one of the best News sources available to us today. Very informative, great Left Wing commenters. Of course if you don't like like Left commenters who tell the truth about policies, you won't like RT.
Cali_Democrat
(30,439 posts)S you're saying RT didn't air the fake footage?
You really are a sucker.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)I see a lot of declarations here with zero to back them up.
But that is the nature of the Internet. Got anything to prove the attacks were from the Syrian Government? We've been waiting for that evidence for quite a while now.
It is well known that the Saudis are arming Al Queda in Syria and in Libya. They have their own reasons for that. Funny, during the Bush era no one had any problem seeing through the Saudi's agenda.
rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)And Sid's ridicule emoticon will score you some points. With Sid.
Cali_Democrat
(30,439 posts)rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)Cali_Democrat
(30,439 posts)Benton D Struckcheon
(2,347 posts)Russia <> Left. Not by a long shot. Russia Times, or whatever RT stands for, even less. I once used them for a cite on something that happened in Syria, only to find out, a week later, that what they posted was in fact real, but from something that happened in another country at another time.
Awful doesn't begin to describe that sewer.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)footage from Iraq's slaughter of innocents and had to apologize.
I see you don't watch it either but are repeating the official line. Won't matter, RT is now watched here in the US, mostly by Democrats, being it has that 'liberal bias' by more people than any of our Corporate Media propaganda.
A few comments on an internet forum isn't going to change that. And there IS a reason for their huge audience. They cover NEWS.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)Syria and had to retract it. RT is far more reliable now as a news source than any of the Western media. That is just a fact.
BBC News uses Iraq photo to illustrate Syrian massacre
The picture, which was actually taken on March 27, 2003, shows a young Iraqi child jumping over dozens of white body bags containing skeletons found in a desert south of Baghdad.
It was posted on the BBC news website today under the heading “Syria massacre in Houla condemned as outrage grows”.
The caption states the photograph was provided by an activist and cannot be independently verified, but says it is “believed to show the bodies of children in Houla awaiting burial”.
A BBC spokesman said the image has now been taken down.
I'm sure you don't use the BBC as a source considering this among other, false reports??
Benton D Struckcheon
(2,347 posts)it was a while ago. But RT was most definitely the source. At that time, I thought RT was a real news site. Not anymore. If it was the same incident as what you're talking about, I can guarantee you they didn't use any such disclaimer as " provided by an activist and cannot be independently verified, but says it is “believed to show the bodies of children in Houla awaiting burial”. " That would be way too honest for them.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)began two years ago and have never seen anything like that from them.
They are just two years old and have already received a very prestigious Journalism award for their coverage of World News. And they deserved it.
If you do not watch their news programs, then I don't see how you can comment on them.
As for our own media, who pushed the egregious lies that got us into the War in Iraq, they have lost all credibility and are struggling for an audience.
I believe you confused the BBC's false footage with RT for some reason. Not the first time the former respected Western media has published questionable material.
arely staircase
(12,482 posts)your hobbies and interests include believing Russian propaganda.
polly7
(20,582 posts)Remember being called 'terrorist lover', 'Saddam's girlfriend' and traitor!!! during the time everyone was trying to figure out the reasoning for going into Iraq and using Al Jazeera as a source for different arguments? I do.
When almost everything regarding the ME and NA from 'trusted western sources' has been proven over and over to be complete fucking lies, why would anyone object so strongly to investigating articles and statements from all around the world? Seems like some would just like to hide any inconvenient news that doesn't line up with the possibility of yet another intervention/atrocity. Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, Syria - filter out whatever doesn't fit .......... same old shit, different day. I was glad to be one of the jurors that voted to keep this OP.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)quoting the excellent reporting of Al Jazeera back then. It didn't phase me then and doesn't phase me now.
The reason why we are seeing these lame attacks, and notice not one of them has offered anything other than the old, lame, personal attacks, by which I am also unphased btw, that we got from Bush supporters re Al Jazeera to refute the article from RT.
I'm actually laughing at the responses frankly. No one ever managed to stop us from watching Al Jazeera with these kinds of lame attacks and as you pointed out, WE WERE RIGHT not to believe a word that was coming from our own disgraceful Corporate Media.
And we are right now. Al Jazeera was hated because they were exposing the truth. Same thing with RT.
And if it ever gets banned from this site, that will be my last day here. There sure is a huge effort to get that done. No surprise though as to who is working so hard. I will simply spend even more time making sure as many people as possible watch other sources of news, like RT, as I have done already.
I'll take Robert Parry's reporting on this over our Corporate media or anonymous sources on a political forum. The fact is that RT is just one of many, many news sources reporting this story and it is clear that someone doesn't want that info to get out.
Too late, most of the rest of the world are now aware and I suspect so do their governments which is why it was so impossible to get a coalition together for any kind of military action in Syria. And that is why good journalism is so important. It can actually stop wars. And had we had it back in 2003, the tragic, brutal war in Iraq would never have happened.
Ash_F
(5,861 posts)Last edited Sun Oct 6, 2013, 05:28 PM - Edit history (1)
You can't produce anything for your claim? We are to simply take you at your word? 
Best case scenario: Your version of the story is 100% correct making RT no worse than BBC.
Benton D Struckcheon
(2,347 posts)I'm not so invested as to make the effort to go back. Either a person has the discernment to know if a source is credible or they don't. I'm not here to teach that skill.
Ash_F
(5,861 posts)Benton D Struckcheon
(2,347 posts)Ash_F
(5,861 posts)RT may or may not be reliable, but to make claims like that to us without any backup is throwing stones from glass houses. Nobody in this thread has yet to produce evidence that they make up stories or mislabel photos or anything similar. The fact that they can't produce anything while seemingly having such disdain probably just further affirms RT's reliability to unbiased bystanders, not lessens.
I can understand taking issue with their commentators but they seem to give a lot of airtime to Liberal academics compared to their American counterpart, Voice of America. They have given airtime to people who heavily criticize Russian government and police; something VoA never does with USgov. See reply #135 for more on that subject.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)reporting what is a known fact. But I admit, I am having fun watching these lame personal attacks, which btw, have zero effect on someone like me who has battled with the far right for over a decade and recognizes evasion when they see it.
Are you disputing the fact that Syrian 'rebels' were caught with these weapons, or are you trying to say something else? I am more than willing to provide other sources that back up the OP on this. How about you?
Your comment is an ancient and totaly ineffective tactic to avoid actual disicussion of facts. It also indicates a lack of ability to dispute the information which is the topic of the OP.
I will check back to see if you have anything substantial to dispute the OP which so far you have not done.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)the Russian government makes rational discussion here impossible.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)The story is far from a lie as reported all over the world. I asked for something to back up your assertion. To be honest I knew it was not available and expected your response, if one can call it that.
I am very happy to see the US Govt now working so closely with the Russian Govt to try to remove CW from Syria to prevent these extremist, murderous terrorists. As Kerry said, neither our govt or Russia's will do anything to back these extremists in Syria as he praised Russia for their successful work on this and their cooperation with him to get the job done.
I guess poor Kerry never new he was a blind follower of Pootie either.
The level of discussion on this forum used to be above the 'you're a poopie head' level. Thanks for the in depth poopie head level discussion. As I believe I have told you before, I don't generally get down there, I used to long ago but then I grew up, but do use it to educate other readers regarding the facts.
So once again, thanks as always for the multiple opportunities you are always willing to provide me to do this.
rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)retorts like this.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)says.
dionysus
(26,467 posts)
just because most of our media is full of shit, does not make a Russian propaganda outlet a shining beacon of truth.
MelungeonWoman
(502 posts)cali
(114,904 posts)for pity's sake, DD.
Response to dipsydoodle (Original post)
Name removed Message auto-removed
zappaman
(20,627 posts)The gullible and naive eat this shit up and then ask for seconds.
pnwmom
(110,261 posts)through its mouthpiece, R.T., without identifying it as such.
Why?
dipsydoodle
(42,239 posts)I don't regard the number here anti RT as being significant in context with there being c. 200,000 on DU. You may chose to prove me wrong.
Further down the article you'll facts concerning anomalies in the UN samples which doubtless they won't fall for again this time round.
JackRiddler
(24,979 posts)Russian government propaganda is interesting. Sometimes it may even be true. Same applies to propaganda generally. Given how much out there is propaganda, I prefer to dip into various pools of it. Just a bit.
pnwmom
(110,261 posts)JackRiddler
(24,979 posts)When people post links to NY Times or CNN or BBC, they don't usually add the ownership information and on this site there should not be a need.
pnwmom
(110,261 posts)because it is wholly owned and operated by the Russian government.
JackRiddler
(24,979 posts)Please list examples of what you think are "independent news organizations." (If you believe every RT cite requires such a condescending disclaimer but think Wolf Blitzer and David Gregory wouldn't merit a similar disclaimer, there's little to be done for you.)
pnwmom
(110,261 posts)why this source is not allowed on "late breaking news," -- that it's not a legitimate news source -- then there's little to be done for you.
JackRiddler
(24,979 posts)pnwmom
(110,261 posts)And it's allowed as a legitimate news source on DU.
sufrommich
(22,871 posts)sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)these days. RT is one of the most respected news organizations now in the world.
The US Media's lies about Iraq, it' lack of coverage of real news has cause it to be among the least trusted in the world today.
Can you back up that statement btw with some examples?? Anyone can fling mud, but that is meaningless. Most people I know, especially Dems, now turn to RT for real World News. It does have that 'liberal bias' for truth that people like Limbaugh and Hannity often refer to so it's not a surprise that the far right views them as 'liberal liars'. But most Dems I know find it refreshing to finally be able to hear REAL Liberal voices and actual journalists after the years long right leaning propaganda from the Corporate Media.
reddread
(6,896 posts)the problem appears to be conservatives are less able to recognize conservative bias and lies.
quite the self reinforcing blind spot.
rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)I keep asking, but get nothing. The effort to stifle any news source other than the Corporate media is astonishing, but failing miserably. I find it more amusing than anything else at this point, to see the ad hom attacks with not a single link to anything that would prove that this information is false. Most of the rest of world has made their decisions, which is why the US could not get any support for another invasion of yet another ME nation.
RT is still one of the most respected news sources in the world. They can rail and whine all they want, but that is a fact.
dlwickham
(3,316 posts)RT is more like the Michelle Malkin of news sources
Ian David
(69,059 posts)sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)false? Your comment proves nothing. I am interested in facts. I don't see any in your comment. But if you have some facts I will be more than willing to consider them.
Ian David
(69,059 posts)sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)there is grave concern about the extremists in Syria who are being funded by the Saudis, having possession of CW. RT is just one of many sources reporting on this.
Excellent reporting on this extremely serious issue now all over the world.
As for Moose and Squirrel, why not start an OP on the topic, this one is about Chemical Weapons in the hands of Radical, Murderous, Extremists in Syria.
Thankfully Kerry and Putin's Government are working together, as Kerry said yesterday, very successfully to remove the caches there and doing so rapidly. This would at least eliminate the possibility of these murderous extremists getting their hands on them.
It's good to see the US working so closely with Russia on this very serious problem.
Dash87
(3,220 posts)hole. :/
That's not to say that the information is 100% false, but people also have supposed videos of Bigfoot. That doesn't mean Bigfoot is real.
By that logic, because you can't 100% prove that Bigfoot isn't out there, Bigfoot must be real. It makes no sense. 
Ranchemp.
(1,991 posts)Don't forget them.
Gravitycollapse
(8,155 posts)Who has a vested interest in furthering a very specific narrative for the chemical attack.
dipsydoodle
(42,239 posts)regarding sarin traces on people in the absense of ground traces in the same vicinity. That wasn't realised until the triple tests were done in Holland.This time round they won't get fooled again. Lets just see what the current tests show
Junkdrawer
(27,993 posts)Well, the report did have disclaimers.... 
Pretzel_Warrior
(8,361 posts)Assad regime. Any time I hear "black ops" I roll my eyes and stop listening unless there is compelling and CONCLUSIVE evidence. In this case there is not so...zzzzzzzzzzzzz
morningfog
(18,115 posts)That was not part of their initiative.
joshcryer
(62,536 posts)jberryhill
(62,444 posts)sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)Thanks in advance!
Pretzel_Warrior
(8,361 posts)sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)Pretzel_Warrior
(8,361 posts)But I am sure you will want to see the long form of the U.N. report. Conspiracy Theorists tend to have an insatiable appetite for moving goalposts on what will be considered sufficient proof.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)The United Nations independent commission of inquiry on Syria has not yet seen evidence of government forces having used chemical weapons, which are banned under international law, said commission member Carla Del Ponte.
"Our investigators have been in neighboring countries interviewing victims, doctors and field hospitals and, according to their report of last week which I have seen, there are strong, concrete suspicions but not yet incontrovertible proof of the use of sarin gas, from the way the victims were treated," Del Ponte said in an interview with Swiss-Italian television.
"This was use on the part of the opposition, the rebels, not by the government authorities," she added, speaking in Italian.
Try to keep the discussion ON THE ISSUES, rather than engaging in personal attacks. I am interested ONLY in facts.
I have more on this btw, anytime you are interested in a discussion of the facts. This is a tragic situation and it is reprehensible imo, to turn it into a political 'gotcha' tactic.
I care about people, and these so-called 'rebels' have been slaughtering innocent Syrians for nearly two years now. It is well known that what is in the OP here is a fact.
IF you actually care about the victims, I would think you would be interested in finding out who is supporting this egregious War Crime.
Here's a clue for you. For almost the first time ever, Britain's Parliament refused to get involved in striking Syria because they KNEW the truth.
I am sick of people pretending to care about victims when it is abundantly clear they could not care less about actual victims and care only about their own political agendas.
The Turkish Govt caught these 'rebels' at the border with these weapons.
RT is merely reporting what THE REST OF THE WORLD KNOWS. And that is the reason why there was no SUPPORT for the US attempt to strike Syria.
Amazing to see the lack of information in this thread.
Pretzel_Warrior
(8,361 posts)sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)evidence that the Syrian Rebels used Sarin Gas. What does your comment mean?
Why do you think the US could not rally support for an invasion of Syria? Because the facts were known. And no other nation was willing to arm and support the 'rebels' who the UN knew and proved had already used Sarin Gas in Syria.
Are you disputing the evidence provided or what? Your comment is puzzling considering the evidence I provided. It is not just RT now, is it? Is Reuters a 'commie' controlled media also?
Pretzel_Warrior
(8,361 posts)Had and used chemical weapons. There were merely some from the UN who dutifully recorded hearsay of those who said that. No proof. Just hearsay from people who likely were not disinterested parties.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)for yet another tragic invasion of yet another invasion of another ME nation..
The Turkish Govt caught the 'Syrian Rebels' (outsiders backed by outside forces as stated in the British Parliament when they too refused to back these war criminals) with these weapons and RT is merely reporting what has already been reported by other reliable sources. I still await the debunking of the information in the OP.
It doesn't matter, as a Democrat who opposed all of Bush's foreign invasions, I am happy that this time the world refused to engage in another tragic war which would have cost so many innocent lives, as it did in Libya and Iraq and Afghanistan. I would think that all Democrats who opposed Bush's illegal invasions, would be happy also.
Pretzel_Warrior
(8,361 posts)Bizarre
SidDithers
(44,333 posts)Sid
former9thward
(33,424 posts)That was solely done by the NYT who was not there.
Pretzel_Warrior
(8,361 posts)Seemed to line up with?
former9thward
(33,424 posts)They were not there. They drew conclusions in line with the NYT editorial position of assistance to the al Queda rebels.
Pretzel_Warrior
(8,361 posts)Done chatting with you.
PLOP! To the iggy list you go!
*joking about ignore. I just think it is hilarious when other posters say that crap. But I am serious that we are done here.
jberryhill
(62,444 posts)
Fumesucker
(45,851 posts)We all know the Saudis can be trusted since they are US allies.
Do you think a US President would hold hands with just anyone?
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)Coyotl
(15,262 posts) Coyotl
(15,262 posts)The Syrian civil war is financed by the Saudis, and the same Saudi who worked with the Iran-Contra Republican terroists is involved in this black op civil war.
So, what is so unbelievable about a false flag operation designed to drag the US and other Western countries into the conflict as surrogates to complete the Saudi's goals?
Pretzel_Warrior
(8,361 posts)That is one slightly discouraging aspect of DU--all the WOO.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)have, so far, received nothing. Are you aware of what the Turks discovered re Saudi backed 'rebels' in Syrian and Chemical Weapons? I see a lot of sneering here but not a single thing in this thread to disprove the OP's info. I will check back later for your links. Thanks in advance.
Pretzel_Warrior
(8,361 posts)Hey, how's your buddy, Evo Morales? Is he still chasing down political opponents in Bolivia who are brave enough to speak out about his ties to the drug trade?
Sorry. Linked article is not in espanol or from RT.
http://mobile.businessweek.com/news/2013-08-26/morales-foe-flees-from-bolivia-escorted-by-a-brazilian-diplomat
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)wide respected leader of a Latin American nation, but who is not the topic of this thread.
What I would appreciate is something that disproves the info in the OP. Which, fyi, has zero to do with Latin America.
So far despite my repeated requests, I see nothing at all that proves it wrong.
Pretzel_Warrior
(8,361 posts)You are in the uncomfortable position of arguing a highly improbable scenario much the way Bush's Neo-cons did after Iraq invasion.
"No chem weapons found? Well, uh....he moved them to Syria!"
You are arguing "oh, the missiles were shot from a location and in a direction which tells us they were from Syrian army locations and the shells and other evidence are consistent with those owned and controlled by Syrian army? No problem. Ya see, it was Saudi black ops."
No, if you and others are going to come in with outrageous and implausible explanations, the burden of proof lies with you.
So far, nada.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)had access to and used Sarin Gas. And it is well known everywhere that the Saudis have been backing and arming the outsiders in Syria.
Of course our Corporate Media does not report these facts, just as they did not report the facts on Iraq during the Bush years. But the rest of the world DOES know the facts.
And that is why in the end the US could not get support for its latest invasion of yet another ME nation, Syria. Because the world knew the 'rebels' were criminals, the British Parliament knew and thankfully, refused to support any invasion based on the unsubstantiated claims provided by the US.
As a Democrat I am more than encouraged to see that the rest of the world has finally had enough of the lies, the wars, the death and destruction. And that those who were gung ho for another tragic invasion, did not get their way finally.
RT is merely reporting what has already been reported by other reputable sources going back as far as May of this year.
Pretzel_Warrior
(8,361 posts)The sarin attacks. Also thank you for ignoring how preposterous your premise is and how utterly lacking in proof you are to support that premise.
The world didn't want to go to war or support limited strikes because they did not believe that is the way to deal with this complex situation.
Question: did Assad start violent military action on his own people or not? Let's see if we have at least a baseline we can agree on and work from there.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)interested in facts, I am not interested in wasting time. The Syrian 'Rebels' who are not even Syrian, but outsiders, USED SARIN GAS which was established by the UN and reported in the MSM back in the Spring of this year.
And the British Parliament as a result of that fact refused to back the US in its effort to gather support for striking Syria.
RT is merely reporting facts that have been known to the world for a long time. I ma more than relieved that this time, unlike the Bush Iraq Era, the world has accepted the facts and has refused to engage in yet another tragic war in the ME.
Pretzel_Warrior
(8,361 posts)Use of chem weapons by rebels. I see you chose not to answer my basic question about Assad's culpability in the death and destruction taking place.
You are clearly too much in the thrall of Pooty poo, the RT, and any of Russia's client states such as Syria to engage in intellectually genuine conversation on this topic.
You've provided ZERO proof for your hair brained explanation for chem attacks which absolves Syrian government. You've only provided hearsay.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)......
The EGM identified 12 members of the AL Nusra terrorist cell and also ceased fire arms and digital equipment. This is the second major official confirmation of the use of chemical weapons by Al-Qaeda terrorists in Syria after UN inspector Carla Del Ponte’s recent statement confirming the use of chemical weapons by the Western-backed terrorists in Syria.
.......
This further confirmation that the Syrian ‘rebels’ are using chemical weapons while also using Turkey as a base of terrorist operations against Syria, could cause further domestic problems for Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan, whom Turkish opposition leader Kemal Kilicdaroglu has called the ‘chief of the terrorists’.[2]
Please try to avoid the personal attacks, they have zero to do with the issue and lose you credibility.
Over and over again there are reports that the 'Syrian Rebels' used Chemical Weapons. So far you have provided not a shred of evidence that the OP is incorrect or anything to back up your assertions. But I am willing to consider any evidence you can provide that the OP has no basis in fact. So far, I am still waiting.
msanthrope
(37,549 posts)had been in the US two years before his death. It didn't matter how many sources and facts were offered....
So I no longer answer her questions.
grantcart
(53,061 posts)according to Putin's Press secretary, and that is in RT:
http://rt.com/shows/sophieco/chemical-strike-syria-russia-441/
Russia has never been an advocate of President Assad.
Left hand, right hand in perfect symmetry.
reddread
(6,896 posts)or is this Ron Zombie?
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)Pretzel_Warrior
(8,361 posts)Nope. I rarely detect "Islamaphobe" comments from DU posters, and they are usually disruptors that are quickly PPR'd.
But I see woo posts all of the time.
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)But they don't get PPR'd all that often. Thus the clutter.
I figure it's an inevitable problem of any poorly-moderated internet forum, the hateful shits pile up like driftwood on a beach.
leveymg
(36,418 posts)joshcryer
(62,536 posts)
cthulu2016
(10,960 posts)SidDithers
(44,333 posts)
Sid
dipsydoodle
(42,239 posts)Ash_F
(5,861 posts)We all know the Saudi Government are good people. 
Laelth
(32,017 posts)While I don't trust the source, per se, even broken clocks are right twice a day.
-Laelth
cali
(114,904 posts)I trust Cole far, far more than RT or practically any other analyst.
Laelth
(32,017 posts)But the Saudis have not been silent about their support for Syrian Sunnis. I wouldn't put it past them to pull a stunt like this to advance their causes.
-Laelth
rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)I dont distrust RT anymore than I do CNN or ABC.
arely staircase
(12,482 posts)as in the complete and utter bullshit Russian propaganda side.
rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)BelgianMadCow
(5,379 posts)which I think is weird, given the quality of US media that are supposedly "reputable sources".
So either you ban RT AND all of the lying US media, or none of the two.
rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)arely staircase
(12,482 posts)And I think I made my point pretty clearly.
rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)us why. I dont think we should ban RT from DU. Do you? I think we should have a variety of sources, dont you?
BelgianMadCow
(5,379 posts)the hatred of RT here isn't very logical, given what the M$M did on Iraq (and so many other stories).
They have Thom Hartmann. They covered the March against Monsanto when the M$M was nowhere.
I like your attitude of "consider all sides".
I take RT with a grain of salt. As I do, or try to, do with anything. But not checking them, given the lying US media? That's stupid.
rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)act more like politically conservative. They want to hide, lock, ban, PPR any post, source, or poster that doesnt agree with their world view. If you speculate that the NSA is spying they scream CT, CT and want you PPR'd. However, if they speculate that Snowden is a Russian spy, then that is not CT.
raouldukelives
(5,178 posts)At least CNN & ABC work for Americans like Charles Koch.
rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)
uponit7771
(93,532 posts)
ProdigalJunkMail
(12,017 posts)as this garbage. the fact that RT is given ANY credence as a news source is comical...
sP
Sand Wind
(1,573 posts)DevonRex
(22,541 posts)OMG.
http://rt.com/politics/russian-education-astakhov-children-017/
'Presidential children’s rights advocate Pavel Astakhov says he opposes the introduction of sex education in " adding that Russian literature can fill the gap and answer all the possible questions.
“The best sex education there is, in fact, is Russian literature and literature in general,” Astakhov told the Rossiya-24 news channel. “Children should read more. Everything is there, all about love and about relationships between sexes. School must raise children in chastity and with understanding of family values,” he added.
Astakhov told the audience how he warned the Ministry for Science and Education against introducing sex education lessons into Russian schools. “I am very glad that the ministry abandoned this idea because today it is very dangerous to let any specialists of this kind anywhere near children,” he noted.
At the same time, the ombudsman said he was not against the lessons of ethics and psychology of family life, similar to those that existed in Soviet schools. Astakhov suggested that these courses are revived.'
Then there's this:
http://rt.com/politics/russian-hr-obama-meeting-404/
I won't bother with the POS article. But the commentary from the posters sure is telling about the readership of that disgusting rag. Homophobic, racist haters of President Obama and the United States sums it up nicely. I wouldn't associate with any of them. I'd feel the need to disinfect everything they touched.
Reader comments:
Comments (28)
Pamela Smith 18.09.2013 19:52
The Russians should not feel bad about missing an appointment with Obama. You aren't missing much! The man cannot think for himself, and all of America knows it!
Thomas Carroll Jr. 09.09.2013 05:18
Anna Liddell 06.09.2013 17:45
The meeting itself was indeed inappropriate because it would be interferring in the domestic affairs of another country. We do, I admit have to get away from Cold War mentality. Sure, in many ways Russia is still a harsh country that violates human rights, but it isn't even close to how it was in the days of the Soviet Union. It has reached a level where its up to the Russian people to sort out by themselves. We must stop considering Russia our enemy but instead treat them as an adversary.
Anna, are you Russian?
-1
Thomas Carroll Jr. 09.09.2013 01:53
Oh, I do not think they stood him up at all, they just were all in jail and in prison in Moscow, and could not get out to see him.
Anna Liddell 06.09.2013 17:49
"US President needs to show his citizens how he cares about the Human Rights all over the world."
It's more important to me for him to show that he cares about Human Rights in the United States with all his domestic spying and his death panels and his "Fast and Furious" and his voter intimidation and how violent crimes are on the rise by people who "look like his son if he had one".
Anna Liddell 06.09.2013 17:45
The meeting itself was indeed inappropriate because it would be interferring in the domestic affairs of another country. We do, I admit have to get away from Cold War mentality. Sure, in many ways Russia is still a harsh country that violates human rights, but it isn't even close to how it was in the days of the Soviet Union. It has reached a level where its up to the Russian people to sort out by themselves. We must stop considering Russia our enemy but instead treat them as an adversary.
Anna Liddell 06.09.2013 17:41
I apologize for the absolute rudeness of our current head of state. I would note only that in surveys (which I disapprove up but nonetheless) of people outside America during the US elections, he was far the most popular candidate. Again such surveys offend me because who we choose is solely up to us, but the fact is we gave you the leader you wanted.
Linda 06.09.2013 17:34
All of you don't seem to realize who starts these wars. It is the elite that does it, they start the wars and they make the money on them. We are the slaves and do their bidding. Wake up everyone, don't you know what is going on? The New World Order is taking over and you sit here and write your hatefulness to each other and don't have a clue, while our people starve and our men and women die in these wars. This has got to end, and not by killing each other off, for that is what they want. We need to go after them, the big banks, the Rothschilds, Morgans, Rockefellers and Bilderbergers.
+3
FREEDOM 06.09.2013 02:28
so some arab countrys are paying the bills if us decides to
attack syr,(was said by john kerry) so if it/s real,then the us
is really brock & r looking for work,who knows the reality
it could be ,then the times have really changed ,who knows the us could also make mony..lol
-1
Steve J 05.09.2013 21:44
America was built on hidden war, and outright war. More and more it is what happens with capitalism greed to dominate, especially when hard times and no profits. Marx was right. America is in decline.
+1
Hugh Glass 05.09.2013 21:17
I think Russki HR and GLTB advocates should give dumbo a break. "Bottom" bama ain't been right since his well endowed"Top&quo t; ,Reggie Love left him for a younger man.
Galmukovff 05.09.2013 18:20
AmericanX 05.09.2013 16:59
Thi s really p1sses me off!
You love your wide roads, your cheap cars, fast food and Walt Disney, always boast about NASA; but don't seem to understand why you have so much and others have nothing!
One word One vowel Three letters
W A R !!
Not true. As one who immigrated from Mogilev many years ago, it is American Freedom of Citizen that makes America, and not war. Land of opportunity, and freedom of individual. But U.S. is starting to fail because of Socialist policies and propaganda
+2
Charles 05.09.2013 17:47
"All you human rights mo-fu's been sayin' bad things bout me. Y'all jes doin dat cuz I's black -- well kinda black, anyhow. Well, I loves my fella man, especially de white folks. Y"all jes check out "Man's Country" bathhouse on the internet t'fine out jes how much I loves dose white men..." Signed, "Da Big Bamster"
-1
AmericanX 05.09.2013 16:59
stan2013 05.09.2013 00:04
AmericanX 14:44...Maybe the President wouldn't have so much on his plate, if he kept his nose out ---.
This really p1sses me off!
You love your wide roads, your cheap cars, fast food and Walt Disney, always boast about NASA; but don't seem to understand why you have so much and others have nothing!
One word One vowel Three letters
W A R !!
-2
Anthony David 05.09.2013 16:36
So.. has the U.S administration to place pressure back on Russia for its defense of consciousness unfolding and taking into the form of adult and future ideas/creations.
Will again be under renewed attack by the U.S? As the real organizations which stand for the total societies needs/requirements have been again nerfed. This time by Scheduling errors.
It seems like the U.S administration or "leaders" enjoys painting pictures and allowing the picture to sell the truth. Vs the reality of causality and the proof of pain and suffering they again rely on media and propagandize to deliver the "Right" picture.
-1
Galmukovff 05.09.2013 16:08
stan2013 05.09.2013 00:04
AmericanX 14:44...Maybe the President wouldn't have so much on his plate, if he kept his nose out of the internal affairs of Sovereign countries + stuck to fixing up the country in which he was elected to do so. While he creates chaos internationally, his own countries' infrastructure in falling apart; while he spends billions on his overseas military.
This very true statement and American citizen is very sick of Obama. Big change on store for U.S. in next electon.
-1
Galmukovff 05.09.2013 16:05
Obama meeting with this group on Russian ground is finger in the eye of Russia, and of Putin himself. Shame on Obama. Putin does not go to U.S. and meet with NRA does he? Obama hates NRA. Ponimat?
IndianaJohn 05.09.2013 14:32
That Ludmila must be one tough woman, to have survived such a beating with The Ugly Stick.
-2
Timothy 05.09.2013 00:41
That's how the Obomber regime does everything.
Espe cially foreign policy.
"Yes we can('t), (no) hope and (no) change".
Except the daily changing Presidential sound byte.
" ;Wasn't MY red line" "narrow targeted action"
What a clown : ("
_------------------------------------------END----------------------------------
PERHAPS NOW YOU'LL UNDERSTAND WHY RUSSIA TODAY (AND RIA NOVOSTI) IS NOT RESPECTED HERE. PERSONALLY, IT MAKES ME SICK.
Jury, please note I'm pasting this here for one reason - to get others to STOP using this garbage site as a news source. That was a story from Sept 5 and those comments remain. No US or any decent legitimate site would allow those to stay up. But RT does and has, as you can see. Because RT promotes homophobia and racism.