Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search
 

cali

(114,904 posts)
Thu Oct 10, 2013, 08:03 AM Oct 2013

Great News! Alzheimer's breakthrough hailed as 'turning point'

The discovery of the first chemical to prevent the death of brain tissue in a neurodegenerative disease has been hailed as the "turning point" in the fight against Alzheimer's disease.

More work is needed to develop a drug that could be taken by patients.

But scientists say a resulting medicine could treat Alzheimer's, Parkinson's, Huntington's and other diseases.

In tests on mice, the Medical Research Council showed all brain cell death from prion disease could be prevented.

Prof Roger Morris, from King's College London, said: "This finding, I suspect, will be judged by history as a turning point in the search for medicines to control and prevent Alzheimer's disease."

<snip>

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-24462699

145 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Great News! Alzheimer's breakthrough hailed as 'turning point' (Original Post) cali Oct 2013 OP
This is good news indeed..... a kennedy Oct 2013 #1
I agree. Devastating illness for all involved. Lochloosa Oct 2013 #3
My "Mild Alzheimer's progress seems to be "on hold" ehcross Oct 2013 #98
That's great news, ehcross! Suich Oct 2013 #109
great news Liberal_in_LA Oct 2013 #116
Dupe bahrbearian Oct 2013 #2
Dupe worthy. Lochloosa Oct 2013 #4
Yup, very dupe worthy! dmr Oct 2013 #105
something like this cannot be posted too often. people could have missed the other post, you know. niyad Oct 2013 #45
Wonderful development! tweeternik Oct 2013 #5
That's great to hear davidpdx Oct 2013 #6
Or eat coconut oil* tridim Oct 2013 #7
Coconut oil? What blather is that? And did you read the bleeding article? No you Bluenorthwest Oct 2013 #8
+1 cali Oct 2013 #11
You can use or not use whatever you want. tridim Oct 2013 #23
Some doctors do claim benefits IDemo Oct 2013 #113
Leave it to DU to find the dark cloud behind the silver lining Orrex Oct 2013 #9
There is nothing dark about what I wrote. nt tridim Oct 2013 #24
Did you read what you wrote? Orrex Oct 2013 #26
Coconut oil health benefits are not pseudoscience. tridim Oct 2013 #29
You framed it in terms of stereotypical "Big Pharma Is Evil" Orrex Oct 2013 #30
Thank you. AtheistCrusader Oct 2013 #53
Some coconut oil will fix you up pronto! Orrex Oct 2013 #56
Do I guzzle it, or rub it on.. places? AtheistCrusader Oct 2013 #70
Why must it be one or the other? Orrex Oct 2013 #99
lemme guess- based on studies sponsored by the coconut industry? eShirl Oct 2013 #12
It's all Big Coco to me. nt Tommy_Carcetti Oct 2013 #78
Wife was diagnosed several years ago ... tweeternik Oct 2013 #17
I was going to suggest... CanSocDem Oct 2013 #18
Apparently Rx drugs are the only answer. Disappointing. nt tridim Oct 2013 #20
Apparently wishful thinking is your preferred answer. Unsurprising. nt Orrex Oct 2013 #32
Are you upset that some ppl use diet and exercise instead of prescription drugs to remain healthy? tridim Oct 2013 #34
Nope. Orrex Oct 2013 #37
No, they should use leeches. jeff47 Oct 2013 #38
Why do you think scientists are evil? I sure don't. tridim Oct 2013 #40
Actually, big pharma is scientists. jeff47 Oct 2013 #43
Big pharma is for profit wisechoice Oct 2013 #48
So are most scientists. jeff47 Oct 2013 #49
But their pay check is way smaller wisechoice Oct 2013 #52
Big pharma only exists by employing scientists. jeff47 Oct 2013 #72
That is not the complaint wisechoice Oct 2013 #77
Go look at your first post in this thread jeff47 Oct 2013 #84
it is a discussion forum wisechoice Oct 2013 #112
So you prescribe firing all scientists as a cure for "Big pharma"? Wow. Bernardo de La Paz Oct 2013 #81
Reading. Try it. jeff47 Oct 2013 #83
Writing clearly is a great way to making successful posts. I recommend you try it. nt Bernardo de La Paz Oct 2013 #86
I am. You're busy reading in things that I did not write. (nt) jeff47 Oct 2013 #94
So, getting paid is now evil in your book. You work for free. Very kind of you. Thank you. nt Bernardo de La Paz Oct 2013 #80
I'm not the one calling them evil. (nt) jeff47 Oct 2013 #82
You do in posts 43 and 38 Bernardo de La Paz Oct 2013 #85
So still not reading. jeff47 Oct 2013 #89
Ok, say it then. You think Big Pharma is NOT evil. If you think they are "wonderful", you can too. Bernardo de La Paz Oct 2013 #96
For brain disease. jeff47 Oct 2013 #126
There were scientists before there was Big Pharma. caseymoz Oct 2013 #66
No one is saying they are the same. jeff47 Oct 2013 #73
You are. Your post 43: "Actually, big pharma is scientists." You equate them. Bernardo de La Paz Oct 2013 #88
Constitution of a group is not the entirety of that group. jeff47 Oct 2013 #91
Right. Equating them is not making that distinction. You need to write such distinctions clearly.nt Bernardo de La Paz Oct 2013 #97
No, you are equating them. jeff47 Oct 2013 #127
You used the word "is" which is equating them. Your choice of word. nt Bernardo de La Paz Oct 2013 #137
No, is can also be used for constituency. jeff47 Oct 2013 #138
No more and no less that Ted Nugent is a rocker... LanternWaste Oct 2013 #71
Actually, medicinal leeches are still today. DeadEyeDyck Oct 2013 #76
Not for brain diseases. (nt) jeff47 Oct 2013 #131
Hey! Leaches are cool! Maraya1969 Oct 2013 #111
Good. I'm starting to forget everything ecstatic Oct 2013 #10
No form of death... awoke_in_2003 Oct 2013 #28
Forgetting things isn't a sign of anything jeff47 Oct 2013 #39
HUGE K & R !!! WillyT Oct 2013 #13
That is great news! Sissyk Oct 2013 #14
Even better than a drug, they might find dietary items that would fight it. Bernardo de La Paz Oct 2013 #15
I'm sorry, but it's ridiculous to make that claim cali Oct 2013 #25
I should have used the word "prevent", consistent with notion of activities that prevent it listed. Bernardo de La Paz Oct 2013 #27
Not sure if "that claim" refers to the OP or my post, but here is some information Bernardo de La Paz Oct 2013 #33
There's a tiny grain of truth in the claim jeff47 Oct 2013 #42
You clearly know little about diet and the blood brain barrier. Bernardo de La Paz Oct 2013 #90
:facepalm: jeff47 Oct 2013 #93
Your strawman. Only you are claiming anyone is claiming foods "cure" a brain disease. nt Bernardo de La Paz Oct 2013 #100
Or you could go read the first post I responded to, which claimed coconut oil was a cure. (nt) jeff47 Oct 2013 #128
That post #7 never mentions "cure". You are the only one talking about a cure. nt Bernardo de La Paz Oct 2013 #136
It presents it as a treatment in place of the one in the OP. That means "cure". (nt) jeff47 Oct 2013 #139
Only you would think that "treatment" means "cure" or that prevention means "cure". Bernardo de La Paz Oct 2013 #141
You attack a non exist antecedent and claim therefore the science is junk. Bernardo de La Paz Oct 2013 #103
:facepalm: again. jeff47 Oct 2013 #130
Your post has binary thinking again & you confuse adding an additional means with replacing one. nt Bernardo de La Paz Oct 2013 #135
Your post also has an internal logical contradiction: Bernardo de La Paz Oct 2013 #95
If someone would actually read... rexcat Oct 2013 #118
Beta amyloid... rexcat Oct 2013 #117
Diet, mental exercises don't always work Thirties Child Oct 2013 #31
See my post 33. Diet, exercise, & stimulation are very effective & can slow progression of the Bernardo de La Paz Oct 2013 #36
Well that didn't work for my friend... Blue Idaho Oct 2013 #92
1) Parkinsons is not dementia. 2) Diet won't help everybody but it will help many. Bernardo de La Paz Oct 2013 #104
Reading beyond the title... Blue Idaho Oct 2013 #108
Friend recently diagnosed. redwitch Oct 2013 #35
That lifestyle may have delayed it for him Duer 157099 Oct 2013 #50
How can you possibly make that assertion with any confidence? Orrex Oct 2013 #55
Two words: Duer 157099 Oct 2013 #63
Are they largescale longitudinal studies spanning decades? Orrex Oct 2013 #65
Yes, longitudinal studies, a famous one being with nuns. Bernardo de La Paz Oct 2013 #120
678 participants doesn't seem all that largescale to me Orrex Oct 2013 #122
You are free to stop exercising and sit on a couch watching TV with bags of chips if you want to. Bernardo de La Paz Oct 2013 #123
Petty. And irrelevant. Orrex Oct 2013 #125
I posted meaningfully supportive references about exercise early in the thread. Bernardo de La Paz Oct 2013 #140
It's not that simple Orrex Oct 2013 #142
Exactly, "no shit". And you can raise the bar all you want. Bernardo de La Paz Oct 2013 #144
Nope. Orrex Oct 2013 #145
She's early 60's. redwitch Oct 2013 #124
This message was self-deleted by its author Bernardo de La Paz Oct 2013 #134
I like to play Spider Solitaire...will that help? Auntie Bush Oct 2013 #59
I think the only benefit of that would b its semi-meditative aspect, slightly helpful to gen. health Bernardo de La Paz Oct 2013 #121
Kicked and recommended. Uncle Joe Oct 2013 #16
A few months too late for my late father... Orsino Oct 2013 #19
Here's to medical research ~! toby jo Oct 2013 #21
Excellent! Good news. lonestarnot Oct 2013 #22
Great stuff. Need to pry on the prions. Eleanors38 Oct 2013 #41
great news ! steve2470 Oct 2013 #44
Message auto-removed Name removed Oct 2013 #46
As someone who lost a parent to this horrible, horrible disease truebluegreen Oct 2013 #47
I hope this can be productized in a reasonable amount of time...... Swede Atlanta Oct 2013 #51
I am forever bemoaning the fact that virtually no money is spent to try to figure out kestrel91316 Oct 2013 #54
It's like climate change... too scary to think about. hunter Oct 2013 #61
Or stop eating cows. randome Oct 2013 #67
It's one of the reasons I have (for the most part). kestrel91316 Oct 2013 #115
Plenty of research into the causes is going on. Posteritatis Oct 2013 #114
I wonder if Michael Fox could use his celebrity status to be part of a controlled trial. randome Oct 2013 #57
He has Alzheimer's? Orrex Oct 2013 #58
Reading past the headline is indicated. cthulu2016 Oct 2013 #60
Don't get in the way of my snark, dammit! Orrex Oct 2013 #62
I doubt he would be willing. AtheistCrusader Oct 2013 #102
Wow. That's an interesting perspective. randome Oct 2013 #129
I was a little surprised by it too. AtheistCrusader Oct 2013 #133
and to think country which has lovuian Oct 2013 #64
I'd be a little more cautious. caseymoz Oct 2013 #68
Hurry. Scuba Oct 2013 #69
These stories never pan out. sagat Oct 2013 #74
"Medical Research Council showed all brain cell death from prion disease could be prevented" Sunlei Oct 2013 #75
k&r... spanone Oct 2013 #79
I hope and Pray this breakthrough is all they say it is and more! Blue Idaho Oct 2013 #87
How Wonderful This Could Be colsohlibgal Oct 2013 #101
This is indeed very promising news. cristianmarie533 Oct 2013 #106
Great news indeed. The older I get the scarier the prospect of dementia is... Hekate Oct 2013 #107
Good news for the 1%. I'm sure the 99% won't have any access to it. valerief Oct 2013 #110
Treating sleep apnea would help with dementia. Manifestor_of_Light Oct 2013 #119
Good news. JohnnyLib2 Oct 2013 #132
I hope they come up with something for Parkinsons' mitchtv Oct 2013 #143
 

ehcross

(166 posts)
98. My "Mild Alzheimer's progress seems to be "on hold"
Thu Oct 10, 2013, 06:30 PM
Oct 2013

Under treatment for over 2 years (I am 68) my illness' progress seems to have stabilized, perhaps a successful treatment. It has left a clearly irreversible loss of memory. I don't expect miracles, but only seek a normal, retired, life. My wife takes care of me as my guardian angel. and I have learned to live with AD by not thinking about it.

Suich

(10,642 posts)
109. That's great news, ehcross!
Thu Oct 10, 2013, 09:18 PM
Oct 2013

Are you taking Aricept, by any chance?

Best wishes for you and your family!

niyad

(115,006 posts)
45. something like this cannot be posted too often. people could have missed the other post, you know.
Thu Oct 10, 2013, 11:29 AM
Oct 2013

tridim

(45,358 posts)
7. Or eat coconut oil*
Thu Oct 10, 2013, 08:46 AM
Oct 2013

Last edited Thu Oct 10, 2013, 10:40 AM - Edit history (1)

That said, I hope this discovery is the real deal and not just pre-marketing for big pharma's next big (expensive) thing.

* This is only a suggestion, not a prescription. Do your own research please.

 

Bluenorthwest

(45,319 posts)
8. Coconut oil? What blather is that? And did you read the bleeding article? No you
Thu Oct 10, 2013, 08:57 AM
Oct 2013

did not. There is no compound that can be used on humans, years away, but this is a turning point in knowledge. The range of diseases potentially treatable by such a compound are extremely grave and really should not be spoken of dismissively without cause.
That's what I think.

Orrex

(63,435 posts)
26. Did you read what you wrote?
Thu Oct 10, 2013, 10:05 AM
Oct 2013

First, you advertised for pseudoscience, which is dark enough in its own right.

Second, you dismissed this game-changing discovery as a chance for Big Pharma to make a buck.


There si nothing not-dark about what you wrote.

tridim

(45,358 posts)
29. Coconut oil health benefits are not pseudoscience.
Thu Oct 10, 2013, 10:24 AM
Oct 2013

Do research on lauric acid, ketones and medium-chain triglycerides. This isn't the 1970's any more.

I said I hope this discovery is the real deal. I didn't dismiss it at all.

Orrex

(63,435 posts)
30. You framed it in terms of stereotypical "Big Pharma Is Evil"
Thu Oct 10, 2013, 10:35 AM
Oct 2013

And you prescribed coconut oil as if it's a known and proven cure/preventative for Alzheimer's.




eShirl

(18,534 posts)
12. lemme guess- based on studies sponsored by the coconut industry?
Thu Oct 10, 2013, 09:21 AM
Oct 2013

or all anecdotal

yeah we used it but I didn't notice any improvement for my family member other than more tasty cookies

 

CanSocDem

(3,286 posts)
18. I was going to suggest...
Thu Oct 10, 2013, 09:37 AM
Oct 2013


...cannabis until I saw the responses to your suggestion.

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1471-4159.2003.02327.x/full

I guess when ScienceINC calls "dibs" on a discovery, we're all supposed to shut up.

Alzheimer's disease is widely held to be associated with oxidative stress due, in part, to the membrane action of ?-amyloid peptide aggregates. Here, we studied the effect of cannabidiol, a major non-psychoactive component of the marijuana plant (Cannabis sativa) on ?-amyloid peptide-induced toxicity in cultured rat pheocromocytoma PC12 cells. Following exposure of cells to ?-amyloid peptide (1 µg/mL), a marked reduction in cell survival was observed. This effect was associated with increased reactive oxygen species (ROS) production and lipid peroxidation, as well as caspase 3 (a key enzyme in the apoptosis cell-signalling cascade) appearance, DNA fragmentation and increased intracellular calcium. Treatment of the cells with cannabidiol (10?7?10?4m) prior to ?-amyloid peptide exposure significantly elevated cell survival while it decreased ROS production, lipid peroxidation, caspase 3 levels, DNA fragmentation and intracellular calcium. Our results indicate that cannabidiol exerts a combination of neuroprotective, anti-oxidative and anti-apoptotic effects against ?-amyloid peptide toxicity, and that inhibition of caspase 3 appearance from its inactive precursor, pro-caspase 3, by cannabidiol is involved in the signalling pathway for this neuroprotection.

.

tridim

(45,358 posts)
34. Are you upset that some ppl use diet and exercise instead of prescription drugs to remain healthy?
Thu Oct 10, 2013, 10:44 AM
Oct 2013

It sounds like you are, and that is very odd.

Orrex

(63,435 posts)
37. Nope.
Thu Oct 10, 2013, 10:47 AM
Oct 2013

I get upset when people offer pseudoscience as an alternative to actual science and medicine.

Nothing odd about it.

jeff47

(26,549 posts)
38. No, they should use leeches.
Thu Oct 10, 2013, 10:52 AM
Oct 2013

Why? Because it has just as much proof as coconut oil.

But hey, they don't come from those evil scientist types, so they must work just as well.

wisechoice

(180 posts)
48. Big pharma is for profit
Thu Oct 10, 2013, 01:41 PM
Oct 2013

We know that for a fact that they have been seeking ways to squeeze money from us by selling drugs at exorbitant prices. It is good that scientist find cure, but that doesn't mean it will get translated to help for the most needed. But this is a step forward.

jeff47

(26,549 posts)
49. So are most scientists.
Thu Oct 10, 2013, 01:54 PM
Oct 2013

Sure, we call it a paycheck instead of profit, but they're still looking to get paid.

wisechoice

(180 posts)
52. But their pay check is way smaller
Thu Oct 10, 2013, 02:40 PM
Oct 2013

We can pay them a big salary for their hard work gladly. They deserve it. We patients can afford salary for scientists. But big pharma is different.

jeff47

(26,549 posts)
72. Big pharma only exists by employing scientists.
Thu Oct 10, 2013, 04:37 PM
Oct 2013

Again, your complaint was that people are turning to drugs instead of "natural" remedies.

wisechoice

(180 posts)
77. That is not the complaint
Thu Oct 10, 2013, 05:09 PM
Oct 2013

I am just stating the fact that Big pharma will not make it easy for these drugs to be available. That is the original poster's complaint and I agree with it. I am not saying anything about "natural" remedies.
Here is an analogy - The soldiers protect this country. They are doing a great service to the nation. But if the administration goes to unnecessary war, it is not good. Soldiers are not equal to administration and scientists are not equal to big pharma.

Why big pharma is a problem is another debate. But generally they are able to sell drugs cheap in other countries and charge exorbitant rates here.

jeff47

(26,549 posts)
84. Go look at your first post in this thread
Thu Oct 10, 2013, 06:00 PM
Oct 2013
I am not saying anything about "natural" remedies

Except you entered the thread with a post about coconut oil as a possible treatment for Alzheimers.

I am just stating the fact that Big pharma will not make it easy for these drugs to be available.

Because they're going to make a fortune....not selling the drug.

Oooookay.

But generally they are able to sell drugs cheap in other countries and charge exorbitant rates here.

Yep, and ending that is something we should be pursuing via the ACA - limits on price should be relatively easy to enact in "blue" states.

wisechoice

(180 posts)
112. it is a discussion forum
Thu Oct 10, 2013, 09:44 PM
Oct 2013

I can selectively argue what concerns me and not the whole post.

There are 2 ways to make profit. One is to sell lot more with less profit margin. The other is to sell a small quantity at higher margins. Since these drugs are a necessity they sell them at very high price knowing that those who need it will mortgage their house and buy the drugs.

I agree with you on the ACA route.

Bernardo de La Paz

(49,324 posts)
81. So you prescribe firing all scientists as a cure for "Big pharma"? Wow.
Thu Oct 10, 2013, 05:55 PM
Oct 2013

You may not like pharmaceutical company profit margins (few consumers do), but getting rid of scientists or stopping paying them would mean no drugs.

You may not like the price of drugs, but expensive drugs are better than no drugs (even if for some patients it's not much different).

Your cure is worse than the disease.

Bernardo de La Paz

(49,324 posts)
85. You do in posts 43 and 38
Thu Oct 10, 2013, 06:03 PM
Oct 2013
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023820140#post43

Actually, big pharma is scientists.Who do you think invents the new drugs for them?


You think "big pharma" is evil. Then you equate them in an equivalence to scientists. Therefore following your logic, you think scientists are evil.

Previously you called them evil:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023820140#post38

No, they should use leeches. Why? Because it has just as much proof as coconut oil. But hey, they don't come from those evil scientist types, so they must work just as well.


Then in posts following you think that pharma should fire all the scientists because they want to get paid a salary.

jeff47

(26,549 posts)
89. So still not reading.
Thu Oct 10, 2013, 06:10 PM
Oct 2013
Actually, big pharma is scientists.Who do you think invents the new drugs for them?

So....I called them evil by never actually using the word "evil". Or any synonym.

Previously you called them evil:
No, they should use leeches. Why? Because it has just as much proof as coconut oil. But hey, they don't come from those evil scientist types, so they must work just as well.No, they should use leeches. Why? Because it has just as much proof as coconut oil. But hey, they don't come from those evil scientist types, so they must work just as well.

Here, let me help.

You think a post that literally starts with claiming leeches are a cure for Alzheimer's is not at all sarcastic.

So I've got this lovely bridge to sell....

Then in posts following you think that pharma should fire all the scientists because they want to get paid a salary.

By never using the word "fire" or any synonym.

My posts are mocking a person attempting to push alternate medicine as a treatment for Alzheimers, because they dislike "big pharma". They are providing advice that would actually harm people. They are being anti-science. These are all bad.

Bernardo de La Paz

(49,324 posts)
96. Ok, say it then. You think Big Pharma is NOT evil. If you think they are "wonderful", you can too.
Thu Oct 10, 2013, 06:23 PM
Oct 2013

By the way, leeches are used in modern medicine very effectively. Now you know.

jeff47

(26,549 posts)
126. For brain disease.
Fri Oct 11, 2013, 10:38 AM
Oct 2013

The fact that I was pitching them to treat a brain disease should have indicated that the post was sarcastic.

And, btw, you are back to assuming things not in my post. I don't think big pharma is wonderful either. Not being evil is not the same as being wonderful.

caseymoz

(5,763 posts)
66. There were scientists before there was Big Pharma.
Thu Oct 10, 2013, 04:02 PM
Oct 2013

There are also scientists who have nothing to do with Big Pharma.

They're not one in the same.

jeff47

(26,549 posts)
73. No one is saying they are the same.
Thu Oct 10, 2013, 04:38 PM
Oct 2013

After all, astrophysicists aren't going to be involved in inventing new drugs.

jeff47

(26,549 posts)
91. Constitution of a group is not the entirety of that group.
Thu Oct 10, 2013, 06:12 PM
Oct 2013

All of the Republicans sent to the conference committee are male. That does not mean all males are Republicans sent to the conference committee.

jeff47

(26,549 posts)
127. No, you are equating them.
Fri Oct 11, 2013, 10:41 AM
Oct 2013

Nowhere do I say "All scientists".

I really have no idea why you are having so much trouble here. The concepts really are not that hard, but you seem dead-set to not understand.

jeff47

(26,549 posts)
138. No, is can also be used for constituency.
Fri Oct 11, 2013, 04:24 PM
Oct 2013

"The Republican base is white males".

Doesn't make all white males Republicans.

 

LanternWaste

(37,748 posts)
71. No more and no less that Ted Nugent is a rocker...
Thu Oct 10, 2013, 04:34 PM
Oct 2013

No more and no less that Ted Nugent is a rocker...

Maraya1969

(22,705 posts)
111. Hey! Leaches are cool!
Thu Oct 10, 2013, 09:39 PM
Oct 2013
http://www.nbcnews.com/id/5319129/ns/health-health_care/t/fda-approves-leeches-medical-devices/#.UldVvhCnT0c



FDA reports that leeches can help heal skin grafts by removing blood pooled under the graft and restore blood circulation in blocked veins by removing pooled blood.

Indeed the use of leeches to draw blood goes back thousands of years. They were widely used as an alternative treatment to bloodletting and amputation for several thousand years. Leeches reached their height of medicinal use in the mid-1800s.

FDA noted that today they are used in medicine throughout the world as tools in skin grafts and reattachment surgery.

ecstatic

(32,928 posts)
10. Good. I'm starting to forget everything
Thu Oct 10, 2013, 09:02 AM
Oct 2013

so I assume I'm at risk for alzheimer's. I'd rather die than live for years with that disease.

jeff47

(26,549 posts)
39. Forgetting things isn't a sign of anything
Thu Oct 10, 2013, 10:53 AM
Oct 2013

As an alzheimer's specialist explained to me, forgetting where you put your keys is normal. Forgetting what keys are is not.

Bernardo de La Paz

(49,324 posts)
15. Even better than a drug, they might find dietary items that would fight it.
Thu Oct 10, 2013, 09:28 AM
Oct 2013

Very interesting research has shown that if you participate in certain kinds of stimulating activities you are 50 to 75 % less likely to get Alzheimer's than if you are a couch potato. They include:

* Playing strategic/tactical board games like chess and Go.
* Doing crossword puzzles.
* Gardening
* Dancing
* Playing a musical instrument

Use it or lose it.

 

cali

(114,904 posts)
25. I'm sorry, but it's ridiculous to make that claim
Thu Oct 10, 2013, 09:55 AM
Oct 2013

yes, dietary items could help. yes, using it helps, but this backwards shit on DU about all scientific research resulting in breakthrough drugs is so depressingly anti-science. DU's version of climate change denial.

Bernardo de La Paz

(49,324 posts)
27. I should have used the word "prevent", consistent with notion of activities that prevent it listed.
Thu Oct 10, 2013, 10:17 AM
Oct 2013

I don't read DU as much as some do so I have no position as to whether DU is "backwards shit", or what exactly you might be exclaiming about.

I will say that there is too much emphasis on drugs in American medicine and not as much on diet, exercise, and preventive medicine as would be beneficial and cost effective.

American medicine is way to much "sickness care" and not "health care".

To be very clear, when I write "prevent", I don't mean 100% effective at preventing, but I do mean "have some beneficial reduction in outcomes".

Bernardo de La Paz

(49,324 posts)
33. Not sure if "that claim" refers to the OP or my post, but here is some information
Thu Oct 10, 2013, 10:40 AM
Oct 2013
How staying active—even by gardening—may reduce Alzheimer's risk

Study ties routine physical activity to lower rate of disease
April 20, 2012

Everyday activity—such as gardening, cooking, and even moving around the house—may reduce the risk of Alzheimer's disease in the elderly, according to a study in Neurology.

For the study, researchers at Rush University Medical Center in Chicago used an actigraph—a device that registers even minute forms of activity—to monitor the activity levels of 716 elderly individuals who did not have dementia. In the four years following the activity testing, the researchers found that 71 individuals in the study developed signs of Alzheimer's disease.

Using statistical analysis, the researchers determined that the 10% most active participants were 8% less likely to develop the disease over the four years. Meanwhile, the 10% least active participants were 18% more likely to develop the disease over the study period.

Causal connection? Although lead study author Aron Buchman acknowledged that the study does not prove whether reduced activity levels or brain issues come first, he said the study suggests that "increasing all kinds of movements may be beneficial in the long run."
<more>

Dr. Joe Verghese, associate professor of neurology at Albert Einstein College of Medicine of Yeshiva University in the Bronx, conducted a research study comparing the effects of different types of physical and mental activities. Dance was the only physical activity that was found to reduce the risk of dementia.

Although it is difficult to pinpoint the exact reason, Verghese has a few theories. “Dance is a complex activity. You have to follow the music, remember the steps and improvise,” says Verghese. “And it’s a physical activity so it also increases the flow of blood to all parts of the body, including the brain.”


<more>

The six pillars of a brain-healthy lifestyle are:

Regular exercise
Healthy diet
Mental stimulation
Quality sleep
Stress management
An active social life


According to the Alzheimer’s Research & Prevention Foundation, physical exercise reduces your risk of developing Alzheimer’s disease by 50 percent.


Alzheimer’s & dementia prevention pillar #3: Mental stimulation

Those who continue learning new things throughout life and challenging their brains are less likely to develop Alzheimer’s disease and dementia, so make it a point to stay mentally active. In essence, you need to “use it or lose it.”

Activities involving multiple tasks or requiring communication, interaction, and organization offer the greatest protection. Set aside time each day to stimulate your brain. Cross-training with these brain-boosting activities will help keep you mentally sharp:

* Learn something new. Study a foreign language, learn sign language, practice a musical instrument, read the newspaper or a good book, or take up a new hobby. The greater the novelty and challenge, the larger the deposit in your brain reserves.
* Practice memorization. Start with something short, progressing to something a little more involved, such as the 50 U.S. state capitals. Create rhymes and patterns to strengthen your memory connections.
* Enjoy strategy games, puzzles, and riddles. Brain teasers and strategy games provide a great mental workout and build your capacity to form and retain cognitive associations. Do a crossword puzzle, play board games or cards, or work word and number games, such as Scrabble or Sudoku.
* Follow the road less traveled. Take a new route, eat with your non-dominant hand, rearrange your computer file system. Vary your habits regularly to create new brain pathways.


<more>

Dr. Bresky, self described as a Preventive Gerontologist, is a creative thinker who loves working with elders. He has many patients in their 90?s. He has developed an Alzheimer’s prevention plan, and tells us that there is plenty of science to back it up. So why isn’t everyone doing this?

“It’s work” says Bresky. “Lots of people just don’t want to do the work”. They want a pill, or a doctor, or the government to fix it for them.

He explains that dementia is a chronic inflammatory disease. As with heart disease, which is also a chronic inflammatory problem, lifestyle is everything. Dr. Bresky says what we eat has a tremendous preventive effect. “A Mediterranean diet alone lowers the risk of Alzheimer’s Disease by 40%” he says. He urges all his patients to eat the way people do in Italy and Greece, where studies were done on why these populations had the lowest risk of heart disease. A diet high in fruits and vegetables, with plenty of fish, nuts and other sources of mono-unsaturated fats and low in meats is part of the strategy he recommends.

The other parts of his plan include listening to music 30 minutes daily, as music heals. “The brain works through numbers and patterns”, he says. Listening to Mozart’s piano concerto stimulates the brain in a particular way that has a specific effect we want. He suggests that Mozart is the best kind of music for prevention of Alzheimer’s, as compared with other types of music.

As most doctors tell us, we also need to find good stress reduction techniques. “I teach people how to meditate or pray”, says Bresky. It works. Chronic stress is damaging, and “depression kills brain cells”.

Walking is also essential to this prevention effort. Walking just four hours a week reduces the risk of Alzheimer’s by 30%, he says. Along with these things, his plan includes laughter, 9-10 hearty laughs a day. It requires drinking plenty of water, good quality sleep, and the novel idea that health measures include doing a simple or small act of kindness for another person every day.


<more>

jeff47

(26,549 posts)
42. There's a tiny grain of truth in the claim
Thu Oct 10, 2013, 10:57 AM
Oct 2013

Diet is utter hogwash. We have a very hard time getting drugs past the blood/brain barrier. Unusual chemicals from food definitely aren't getting through - blocking those is what the blood/brain barrier is for.

The "mental exercise" has at least a smidgen of proof behind it - people who do get significant mental stimulation daily can have their brain cells covered with amyloid plaques, yet not show any outward symptoms of the disease.

But considering we haven't proven amyloid plaques are the cause of the disease, we can't really say mental stimulation is a cure.

Bernardo de La Paz

(49,324 posts)
90. You clearly know little about diet and the blood brain barrier.
Thu Oct 10, 2013, 06:11 PM
Oct 2013

For one thing,

What gets through the blood brain barrier is not limited to what we eat!

Anybody who has spent a minute studying metabolism, catabolism, and anabolism, and another minute thinking about what they have studied, knows the rather obvious fact that nutrients are broken down and new biochemicals are synthesized from nutrients and pieces of nutrients.

jeff47

(26,549 posts)
93. :facepalm:
Thu Oct 10, 2013, 06:17 PM
Oct 2013

Ok, so someone is claiming that certain foods can cure a brain disease. Because they claim there are chemicals in the food that can fight it.

I say such chemicals can't get through the blood-brain barrier.

You say "Nuh-uh! Because when we digest food we break them down and make new chemicals!".

Now, if you take a minute to think about this, you might realize the problem. I'll wait.

Done? Ok, the problem is if digestion destroys the special chemicals that is supposed to cure the disease, then the blood-brain barrier doesn't matter. The special chemicals are already gone. If you are going to claim the far simpler chemicals that come from digestion are the cure, then eating a particular food would not matter, also destroying the original claim.

Making their chemicals magically survive digestion is a way to show the problem with their idea - otherwise they can come back with claiming an extract should be injected to bypass digestion.

Bernardo de La Paz

(49,324 posts)
141. Only you would think that "treatment" means "cure" or that prevention means "cure".
Fri Oct 11, 2013, 04:29 PM
Oct 2013

Since you have invented your own language, go talk to yourself. Bye-bye.

Bernardo de La Paz

(49,324 posts)
103. You attack a non exist antecedent and claim therefore the science is junk.
Thu Oct 10, 2013, 07:04 PM
Oct 2013
the problem is if digestion destroys the special chemicals that is supposed to cure the disease, then the blood-brain barrier doesn't matter.


Nobody said that the food contains the exact biochemicals to fight (reduce, slow, partially prevent, delay) the disease.

What the science shows, and what nutritionists and biochemists say, is that eating the food has the beneficial result measured in reduced incidence of symptoms of dementia. They do NOT say that the food contains the exact chemicals that need to pass through the blood brain barrier. That is your straw man argument.

Additionally, you exhibit in your post a lack of imagination as to how enhanced nutrition can benefit the brain even without directly increasing or changing the nature of the chemicals crossing the blood brain barrier. Enhanced nutrition reduces artherosclerotic plaque in blood vessels which improves circulation in the entire body. This means that other nutrients are more effectively absorbed, other nutrients are more effectively transported to the liver and cells for breakdown and resynthesis, and the resulting beneficial brain biochemicals are therefore in greater abundance and greater brain availability. For example, glands that make hormones that affect the brain are not on the brain side of the blood-brain barrier.

Further, only you continually make claims about food and cures, which is another of your straw men that you so bravely demolish. The rest of us are talking about beneficial delays in onset, slowed progression, and statistically significant (in the population) reduced detectable dementia symptoms; not "cures".

jeff47

(26,549 posts)
130. :facepalm: again.
Fri Oct 11, 2013, 10:51 AM
Oct 2013
What the science shows, and what nutritionists and biochemists say, is that eating the food has the beneficial result measured in reduced incidence of symptoms of dementia. They do NOT say that the food contains the exact chemicals that need to pass through the blood brain barrier.

Then how would it reduce dementia?

You are claiming that chemicals from food, either directly or as a byproduct of digestion, affects the brain. That can't happen unless the chemicals get through the blood/brain barrier.

Enhanced nutrition reduces artherosclerotic plaque in blood vessels which improves circulation in the entire body. This means that other nutrients are more effectively absorbed, other nutrients are more effectively transported to the liver and cells for breakdown and resynthesis, and the resulting beneficial brain biochemicals are therefore in greater abundance and greater brain availability.

Except you just said those chemicals don't go through the blood/brain barrier. Which means they can't have an effect on the brain. They have to reach the brain to affect it.

Secondly, if your theory were correct, then people who are taking drugs that reduce artherosclerotic plaques would not get Alzheimers - if the problem is the plaques, then it doesn't particularly matter what gets rid of them. Yet people on such drugs get Alzheimers at the same rate as the rest of the population.

Further, only you continually make claims about food and cures

Except for your previous two paragraphs, where you claim nutrition alone can treat Alzheimers.

So....magic chemicals from the right diet is supposed to fight Alzheimer's by never getting to the brain, and by mimicking the effects of certain drugs shown to not benefit Alzheimer's patients.

And you want to claim you are not peddling woo.

Bernardo de La Paz

(49,324 posts)
95. Your post also has an internal logical contradiction:
Thu Oct 10, 2013, 06:21 PM
Oct 2013

First you say that mental stimulation doesn't do anything for amyloid plaque and then you say that amyloid plaque may not be the cause. From that you conclude that mental exercise is not a cure.

Well, duh,

1) Nobody in this thread, especially not me, is calling diet or mental exercise a "cure".

2) Getting trapped in the "cure" / "not a cure" mindset like your post exhibits is binary thinking. It is the fallacy of the excluded middle. It dismisses that diet helps slow down the progression and helps prevent or delay the onset in a statiscally significant way.

3) Even if we assume you made a clumsy error in writing, and that you meant to write more clearly so that you would not exclude the middle, your logical chain of reasoning is faulty.

If amyloid plaque is only an indicative side effect of the disease (as you imply), then mental stimulation may well have its effect by not affecting amyloid plaque at all and by affecting something more at the root of the cause.

You seem to be confusing correlation with causation.

4) The positive effects that have been found from mental stimulation have been found in behavioral results (better performance) and performance says nothing about plaque or any intermediary route.

Mental stimulation works.

Even better than that, it's fun!

rexcat

(3,622 posts)
118. If someone would actually read...
Thu Oct 10, 2013, 11:29 PM
Oct 2013

the current scientific literature mental stimulation does not prevent nor slow the progression of Alzheimer's Disease (AD). There is one current compound in clinical trials that has the potential to stop the progression of AD but it would not be considered a cure. At best it would arrest the production of beta amyloid and stop the cascade of tau protein production if the current widely held hypothesis in the US is correct. One pharmaceutical company had to stop their clinical trials with their version of the compound because of safety issues.

I also posted a retort to the idea that beta amyloid is not associated with AD (see post # 117).

rexcat

(3,622 posts)
117. Beta amyloid...
Thu Oct 10, 2013, 11:20 PM
Oct 2013

and tau protein are always found in Alzheimer's Disease (AD) patients. Beta amyloid is only seen in AD patients but tau protein is found in several types of dementia. One of the major hypotheses in this country is a defective enzyme, BACE 1, cleaves the beta amyloid off the amyloid precursor protein. The beta amyloid protein builds up in the brain as plaques. At some point there is a cascade affect and tau protein production starts. A current hypothesis is beta amyloid production triggers tau protein production but beta amyloid production is always first in AD with subsequent tau protein production. After beta amyloid and tau protein production the clinical affects of AD become apparent. Beta amyloid is extracellular and tau protein is intracellular. Both are toxic to nerve cells but tau protein seems to be more toxic.

Up until recently the only way to definitively diagnosis Alzheimer's Disease was via autopsy but there are several radiolabeled PET imaging compounds that have affinity for beta amyloid and are now being used. Currently these imaging compounds are not approved by the FDA but are being used in clinical trials with the anticipation of getting FDA approval down the line. The down side to the imaging compounds is someone who is injected with the compound gets about 2 years worth of radiation and the compounds have to be used within hours of its production which makes it very expensive. The upside is there is a definitive diagnosis of AD if beta amyloid is present.

It is too bad that most people really don't know the basics of AD. If they did the discussions would be more robust.

Thirties Child

(543 posts)
31. Diet, mental exercises don't always work
Thu Oct 10, 2013, 10:38 AM
Oct 2013

Diet and physical and mental exercises work for some of us, but so far not for those who lost the DNA lottery. If you are APOE e4/e4 your chances of Alzheimer's are something like 93%. The numbers are 40% if you compare 4/4 to the general population, over 90% if you compare them to each other. I can't give a reference for this, got the percentages from an Alzheimer's thread on a DNA site. Despair alternates with hope. Mr. Thirties and I are closing in on 80, the age where you become most vulnerable to Alzheimer's We have had our DNA done, I'm protected, he's iffy, may be, may not be.

So much hope from this new study. It's too late for those members of my generation who lost the lottery, but much hope for my children's generation, and certainly for my grandchildren. Eventually Alzheimer's will go the way of polio and smallpox.

Bernardo de La Paz

(49,324 posts)
36. See my post 33. Diet, exercise, & stimulation are very effective & can slow progression of the
Thu Oct 10, 2013, 10:46 AM
Oct 2013

Even those who are seemingly predestined by DNA to get Alzheimer's can slow the progression of the disease by good diet, moderate exercise, and lots of mental stimulation.

See my post 33 with information and links. Some of the links discuss slowing the progression of the disease as well as prevention.

Nothing in life is guaranteed, but these things are very simple and very enjoyable ways to skew the odds in your favor regardless of what hand you may have been dealt.


Blue Idaho

(5,125 posts)
92. Well that didn't work for my friend...
Thu Oct 10, 2013, 06:16 PM
Oct 2013

The ultra healthy college president that in his prime could solve a Times crossword in about fifteen minutes flat. Today he is a shaking, shivering mess with cognitive disabilities so great he can't dress or feed himself at age 53. No amount of exercise, diet, of magic organic compounds will fix what's wrong with his brain. By the way, isn't virtually EVERYONE with one of these diseases predestined by DNA? What are the other choices? Head Trauma?

Parkinsons is a bitch - and while a healthy diet and exercise is good for us all, it will not - by itself chase the devil from your door.

Do you not know anyone with one of these devastating diseases?

Bernardo de La Paz

(49,324 posts)
104. 1) Parkinsons is not dementia. 2) Diet won't help everybody but it will help many.
Thu Oct 10, 2013, 07:16 PM
Oct 2013

3) Good diet and exercise have benefits throughout the entire body and increase quality of life.

4) If his disease reached a certain milestone at age 53, it might have hit that at age 52 or 49 had he eaten a poor diet. We don't know and we don't make any promises when we mention research showing the beneficial effects of good diet on dementia (and other diseases).

5) Yes, I do know someone with one of these devastating diseases. I have a friend with Parkinsons. She is not demented. I helped care for a man who suffered a stroke.

6) You don't need to tell me that dementia is devastating to people and their families and their care givers. That is well understood.

7) DNA is not destiny. It is a predisposition, and in some cases is a very strong predisposition. Strong enough that women with a family history of breast cancer are choosing mastectomies before any detection. But it is not 100% destiny for dementia.

8) Good diet and exercise are two of six beneficial choices people can make.

9) Last, but not least, we are sorry about your friend and sympathize with you and him. We wish him as good health and care as can be obtained for him.

Blue Idaho

(5,125 posts)
108. Reading beyond the title...
Thu Oct 10, 2013, 09:13 PM
Oct 2013

"But scientists say a resulting medicine could treat Alzheimer's, Parkinson's, Huntington's and other diseases."

Sometimes Parkinson's had a demensia component, sometimes it doesn't. I have witnessed examples that go both ways. Attempting to argue that (a) his diet may have postponed his disease onset, or (b) having an even better diet he could mitigate his symptoms is an impossible argument for anyone to prove.

There is little doubt that exercise, a healthy diet, and frankly, wearing your seatbelt can indeed make a big difference in the quality of anyone's life. I absolutely agree. Sadly, there is no one on this planet that can prove conclusively that there is a causal relationship between diet and the prevention or cure of the diseases listed above.

Finally - I hope everyone takes care of themselves for all sorts of reasons. I want to personally thank you for your kind words in your reply. If I was "over the top" I apologize but I suppose the very real loss of a terrific friend still saddens and angers me.

redwitch

(14,969 posts)
35. Friend recently diagnosed.
Thu Oct 10, 2013, 10:44 AM
Oct 2013

A university math professor. Well traveled, avid reader, physically fit, eats right, got it just the same. Heartbreaking disease.

Duer 157099

(17,742 posts)
50. That lifestyle may have delayed it for him
Thu Oct 10, 2013, 02:02 PM
Oct 2013

I know of many cases just like this where the person did everything right and still got AD. But the question always lingers: how much sooner would they have gotten it if they didn't have that lifestyle?

Orrex

(63,435 posts)
55. How can you possibly make that assertion with any confidence?
Thu Oct 10, 2013, 03:01 PM
Oct 2013

You're claiming that he was destined to develop Alzheimer's (highly uncertain) and that its onset was delayed because of his lifestyle (also highly uncertain). You could argue with equal certainty that his lifestyle accelerated the onset of Alzheimer's.

In short, you really can't know, but you've made the assertion anyway.

Orrex

(63,435 posts)
65. Are they largescale longitudinal studies spanning decades?
Thu Oct 10, 2013, 03:56 PM
Oct 2013

If not, then I have one word: inconclusive

Unless you're claiming that diet/exercise are the only differences affecting twins over the course of sixty or seventy years, then you'd need to explain how you account for those other variables. Factors such as stress, sleep patterns, pathogens, environmenal toxins, etc. Are all of these accounted for? Over what period? The length of the trial? And do these studies clearly indicate that diet/exercise are the principal causative factor in twin-pairs?

I admit that such longterm studies might be commonplace, but Google returns very few results pertaining to longterm studies of more than a few hundred individuals lasting more than 20 years or so. For a disease likely decades in the making, such studies strike me as interesting but inconclusive.


Healthy diet and exercise are worthy pursuits in their own right, but it's cruel and irresponsible to offer the false hope that they will mitigate or delay the onset of Alzheimer's.

Bernardo de La Paz

(49,324 posts)
120. Yes, longitudinal studies, a famous one being with nuns.
Fri Oct 11, 2013, 06:52 AM
Oct 2013

Twin studies are special but not necessary to obtain scientific evidence.

Orrex

(63,435 posts)
122. 678 participants doesn't seem all that largescale to me
Fri Oct 11, 2013, 07:43 AM
Oct 2013

The first three articles I find about the nuns say that early "linguistic density" was a strong predictor of later Alzheimer's among this homogenous group whose diet and exercise habits were highly similar over the decades studied.

That's not a very strong argument in support of diet and exercise as a great way to delay the onset or mitigate the effects of Alzheimer's.

Bernardo de La Paz

(49,324 posts)
123. You are free to stop exercising and sit on a couch watching TV with bags of chips if you want to.
Fri Oct 11, 2013, 09:00 AM
Oct 2013

For my part, I find good diet tasty, moderate exercise invigorating, and mental stimulation fun!

Orrex

(63,435 posts)
125. Petty. And irrelevant.
Fri Oct 11, 2013, 10:37 AM
Oct 2013

The issue has nothing to do with someone who doesn't exercise as much as you want them to. It's about the claim that diet and exercise can verifiably prevent or postpone the onset of Alzheimer's. This claim has been made in-thread repeatedly and has not been meaningfully supported.

Bernardo de La Paz

(49,324 posts)
140. I posted meaningfully supportive references about exercise early in the thread.
Fri Oct 11, 2013, 04:27 PM
Oct 2013

Post #25, early in this long thread.

The first and the last excerpts reference quantified benefits of exercise for dementia or for avoiding dementia. The last excerpt references positive benefits of diet.

To be clear for everybody, exercise and diet are beneficial for preventing, delaying, or slowing dementia, but is not a cure and will not be effective for everybody even though it is effective for many people and probably most people. Since exercise and diet have manifold benefits for many conditions it should be no surprise that studies find more and more conditions that benefit, including dementia.

Orrex

(63,435 posts)
142. It's not that simple
Fri Oct 11, 2013, 05:00 PM
Oct 2013

And I was replying to the petty and irrelevant post in this subthread, not to post #25.

To be clear for everybody, exercise and diet are beneficial for preventing, delaying, or slowing dementia, but is not a cure and will not be effective for everybody even though it is effective for many people and probably most people.
That statement is so open-ended as to be almost entirely worthless.

What you're saying boils down to "exercise and diet prevent dementia except when they don't, and they work for some people but not for the people for whom they don't work."

Since exercise and diet have manifold benefits for many conditions it should be no surprise that studies find more and more conditions that benefit, including dementia.
That is a statement of conjecture, and at best it falls into the "no shit" category. Of course, it does nothing for the great many people for whom diet and exercise have not delayed, prevented, or ameliorated dementia, but I guess that's okay when you're advocating for non-falsifiable feel-goodism.


In short, you're very big on soft, open-ended proclamations and rather weak on verifiable results.

Bernardo de La Paz

(49,324 posts)
144. Exactly, "no shit". And you can raise the bar all you want.
Fri Oct 11, 2013, 05:56 PM
Oct 2013

First, you complained about no studies.

Then people posted about studies.

So you raised the bar and said they had to be longitudinal studies.

Then people posted about longitudinal studies.

But you figured you could shoot it down by claiming that they weren't very big longitudinal studies.

Seems like analysis paralysis to me.

In the meantime, "no shit", exercise and diet do help lots of people. Sorry if that is not good enough for you or not positive enough or not backed by enough whole-lifetime longitudinal studies involving millions of people with lots of twins thrown in, then ok it's not convincing to you. Oh yeah, triplets would be good too, wouldn't they? Would that convince you?

Note about statistics: Just because it may seem, or even be found after the fact, that some people have not benefited from some regimen A, it does not logically disprove the regimen when there are ample statistics showing a net benefit with a probability < 0.05 of chance (degree of confidence > 95%).

Leave it to DU to find the dark cloud behind the silver lining Bravo.


Is there a dark cloud behind the silver lining of diet and exercise? Would you care to share it with us? (That excerpt was your first post in this thread. Self-prophetic, it seems.)

Orrex

(63,435 posts)
145. Nope.
Fri Oct 11, 2013, 07:08 PM
Oct 2013
First, you complained about no studies.

Then people posted about studies.

So you raised the bar and said they had to be longitudinal studies.

Then people posted about longitudinal studies.

But you figured you could shoot it down by claiming that they weren't very big longitudinal studies.
I'm sorry to tell you this, but you're either flat-out lying or else entirely incorrect.

Here's Duer 157099's Reply #63: "Two words: twin studies"

In my reply #65 I asked if they were largescale longitudinal studies. You assert that I was moving the goalposts, but that's simply not the case. Rather than changing the requirements as you claim, I set the standard in a single subject line. How can you not see this?

Your own reply #120 stated "Yes, longitudinal studies, a famous one being with nuns."

So you met half of the clearly stated criteria, and then you complain that I changed my requirements? Bullshit. Further, 678 participants is not a largescale study. It's a preposterously tiny sample, and in this case a sample entirely of women with nearly identical diet and lifestyle.

That's simply not adequate for making assertions about the best course of action for the population as a whole.

In the meantime, "no shit", exercise and diet do help lots of people.
Again, no shit, and now you're using a straw man. At no time have I ever asserted that exercise and diet don't help lots of people. Instead, I have asserted--correctly--that diet and exercise do not verifiably delay, prevent, or ameliorate the onset of Alzheimer's. By broadening the assertion from "people with Alzheimer's" to "lots of people," you are positing an argument that I have not made.

Why should I defend your own argument for you?

Seems like analysis paralysis to me.
Seems like you don't know what you're talking about. You certainly don't understand what I'm talking about, or at least you're not replying to it.

Response to redwitch (Reply #124)

Bernardo de La Paz

(49,324 posts)
121. I think the only benefit of that would b its semi-meditative aspect, slightly helpful to gen. health
Fri Oct 11, 2013, 06:59 AM
Oct 2013

A repetitive activity like that is not challenging or stimulating. It can be relaxing and that would have a benefit in reducing stress levels and helping general health a little bit. Solitaire tends to be a way to take the mind out of gear rather than put it in gear.

When you compare it to crossword puzzles and strategy games like Go and chess, those constantly bring up new combinations of words and lines of play. Opponents in the games won't always do as expected so plans have to be constantly modified and adapted. Crossword puzzles present words you don't usually use or may not have seen or novel meanings of familiar words. Clues are highly variable and make cross-connections between words that are often unusual and thought-provoking.

Orsino

(37,428 posts)
19. A few months too late for my late father...
Thu Oct 10, 2013, 09:43 AM
Oct 2013

...but Alzheimer's research was a beneficiary of his memorial. This is awesome news.

Prions suck.

Response to cali (Original post)

 

truebluegreen

(9,033 posts)
47. As someone who lost a parent to this horrible, horrible disease
Thu Oct 10, 2013, 01:22 PM
Oct 2013

this news is beyond "good." Smartest man I ever knew. Healthy, fit, rode his bike across the US at the age of 78, then this....his last 5 years drove us all to our knees, watching the deterioration, seeing him struggle...

I have no words.

 

Swede Atlanta

(3,596 posts)
51. I hope this can be productized in a reasonable amount of time......
Thu Oct 10, 2013, 02:30 PM
Oct 2013

My father and paternal grandfather both had severe dementia or Alzheimer's disease. Some of my father's deterioration was the result of TIAs (small strokes) but we believe much of it was Alzheimer's related.

He was healthy and strong physically so unfortunately he lasted 4 years in a lock-down memory care facility. It broke our hearts to go and see him. He couldn't speak other than "yeah, yeah, yeah" and didn't recognize us or otherwise engage around him. He could still feed himself, etc. but was incontinent and required assistance with everything else. We would occasionally get him to smile and laugh a bit but we never knew what was going on in his head.

He passed in July 2012 and my sister and I considered that a blessing. He would not have wanted to live that way and it hurt us to see him in that condition. We both felt we had lost him 4 years earlier when he was no longer the Dad we had known. He was just a physical shell living a clinical definition of "life" but not our Dad.

Given that history in the family I fear I may well be pre-disposed to this type of mental deterioration and I have the same feelings as my father - I don't want to live like that. Please find a way to pull a plug or something.

So this news is encouraging but sometimes these discoveries take decades to fully test and develop into meaningful treatments. At age 57 I don't know how much time I may have to wait on them.

 

kestrel91316

(51,666 posts)
54. I am forever bemoaning the fact that virtually no money is spent to try to figure out
Thu Oct 10, 2013, 02:52 PM
Oct 2013

WTH CAUSES nasty, lethal diseases like this in the first place.

Cattle get something very much like Alzheimer's: Bovine Amyloidotic Spongiform Encephalopathy (BASE). But nobody wants to deal with the elephant in the living room - the fact that our main protein source is massively contaminated with prions that could easily be behind this scourge.

Follow the money, I guess.

hunter

(38,472 posts)
61. It's like climate change... too scary to think about.
Thu Oct 10, 2013, 03:14 PM
Oct 2013

Don't worry, be happy. Hop in the car and drive to MacDonalds for another hamburger.


 

randome

(34,845 posts)
67. Or stop eating cows.
Thu Oct 10, 2013, 04:06 PM
Oct 2013

[hr][font color="blue"][center]Treat your body like a machine. Your mind like a castle.[/center][/font][hr]

Posteritatis

(18,807 posts)
114. Plenty of research into the causes is going on.
Thu Oct 10, 2013, 10:13 PM
Oct 2013

The problems are (1) it's not an easy question to answer - or else we would have by now - and (2) it doesn't lend itself to flashy headlines like treatment milestones do.

 

randome

(34,845 posts)
57. I wonder if Michael Fox could use his celebrity status to be part of a controlled trial.
Thu Oct 10, 2013, 03:06 PM
Oct 2013

Not meant as snark against Fox, either. Celebrities can shine a spotlight in places others can't. A high profile success would invigorate further testing and treatments.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Treat your body like a machine. Your mind like a castle.[/center][/font][hr]

cthulu2016

(10,960 posts)
60. Reading past the headline is indicated.
Thu Oct 10, 2013, 03:14 PM
Oct 2013

"But scientists say a resulting medicine could treat Alzheimer's, Parkinson's, Huntington's and other diseases."

 

randome

(34,845 posts)
129. Wow. That's an interesting perspective.
Fri Oct 11, 2013, 10:42 AM
Oct 2013

[hr][font color="blue"][center]Treat your body like a machine. Your mind like a castle.[/center][/font][hr]

caseymoz

(5,763 posts)
68. I'd be a little more cautious.
Thu Oct 10, 2013, 04:07 PM
Oct 2013

It's exciting to see in lab mice, but a lot can go wrong before they find a compound for humans that does the same thing.

Still, it's exciting. Alzheimer's is probably the biggest health threat today. It's what AIDS was in 1985.

Sunlei

(22,651 posts)
75. "Medical Research Council showed all brain cell death from prion disease could be prevented"
Thu Oct 10, 2013, 04:54 PM
Oct 2013

prion disease. Looks to me that UK research Councils and UK research Colleges use a lot of connection with tests for cures for Alzheimer's disease using models of prion diseases.

Perhaps they're starting to consider Alzheimer's disease the result of some infectious prion disease. Very interesting research.


"All known prion diseases affect the structure of the brain or other neural tissue and all are currently untreatable and universally fatal" ref http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prion

Blue Idaho

(5,125 posts)
87. I hope and Pray this breakthrough is all they say it is and more!
Thu Oct 10, 2013, 06:04 PM
Oct 2013

When you get to be my age - you know a lot of people stricken by these horribly destructive brain diseases. Any treatment that offers even a glimmer of hope deserves to be shouted fro the rooftops!

colsohlibgal

(5,275 posts)
101. How Wonderful This Could Be
Thu Oct 10, 2013, 06:53 PM
Oct 2013

The best friend I've ever had, a true BFF, died in 2005 after years of incapacity from a particularly bad type of Parkinsons. My dad suffered his last few years from Alzheimers. So I truly hope this quickly leads to a vanquishing of this whole family of horrible diseases.

 

cristianmarie533

(51 posts)
106. This is indeed very promising news.
Thu Oct 10, 2013, 07:54 PM
Oct 2013

My grandfather recently came down with the disease, which was a shock to many of us in the family. After all, despite his age, he was one of the healthiest family members, being able to run in marathons every few years or so. And to see him being afflicted with this disease was heartbreaking news for all of us.

Godspeed to the scientists coming up with a cure for this dreadful disease.

Hekate

(91,660 posts)
107. Great news indeed. The older I get the scarier the prospect of dementia is...
Thu Oct 10, 2013, 07:55 PM
Oct 2013

... not because I think I'm "there" but because of the people I've known who were or are. The worst case I heard of recently was from a colleague whose mother is only 4 years older than I am -- at the age of 70 she lives in a secure facility and no longer recognizes her own daughter. Also I'm part of a group of friends who have had to take over care of one of our own; fortunately she was able last year to sit with a lawyer (and us) to form a trusteeship for her continuing care, and consent to us selling her home and finding an assisted living situation for her.

The hopes of many ride on this research, particularly as so many of us live longer.

valerief

(53,235 posts)
110. Good news for the 1%. I'm sure the 99% won't have any access to it.
Thu Oct 10, 2013, 09:29 PM
Oct 2013

The Dying Industry--which we call healthcare--wouldn't allow it.

 

Manifestor_of_Light

(21,046 posts)
119. Treating sleep apnea would help with dementia.
Fri Oct 11, 2013, 01:45 AM
Oct 2013

I recently got a CPAP machine and the doc said that you get brain damage long-term from sleep apnea as your O2 saturation goes down. When I was tested my O2 went down to 85% during sleep.

That was the same as it was when I went to the ER in acute breathing distress and violently panting, due to pulmonary emboli, which are blood clots in your lungs which can kill you instantly. And would have killed me within 24 hours had I not gone to the ER.

Anyway, I am far more alert on a CPAP machine properly adjusted. I have a lot of sinus problems and allergies causing obstructions. Peoples' lives are literally transformed with CPAP machines.


mitchtv

(17,718 posts)
143. I hope they come up with something for Parkinsons'
Fri Oct 11, 2013, 05:27 PM
Oct 2013

I find weed a valuable addition to my other meds. so far I only have it in my left arm.so excuse the poor typing

Latest Discussions»General Discussion»Great News! Alzheimer's ...