McAuliffe among investors in Rhode Island insurance scam that preyed on dying people

[cali]

Ugh. Yeah I support McAuliffe. After all, his opponent is the wingnut extraordinaire, Cucinelli, but I've always thought Terry M. was a particularly sleazy creep.


Virginia gubernatorial candidate Terry McAuliffe was one of dozens of investors with a Rhode Island estate planner charged with defrauding insurers by using the stolen identities of terminally ill people, according to court documents filed Wednesday by federal prosecutors in Providence.

McAuliffe’s name appeared on a lengthy list of investors with Joseph A. Caramadre, an attorney and accountant who obtained the identities of dying people to set up annuities that ultimately cost insurance companies millions of dollars, the documents say.

The list also included the law firm of a former Rhode Island Supreme Court justice, a Roman Catholic monsignor, a former Cranston, R.I. police chief, and a bookmaker, according to The Providence Journal, which first reported McAuliffe’s investment Wednesday.

Federal court documents do not accuse McAuliffe of wrongdoing, and it wasn’t clear whether he had made money or lost money on the investments. His campaign spokesman said McAuliffe was a “passive investor” who was deceived like many others. Spokesman Josh Schwerin also said that the campaign and McAuliffe donated sums to the American Cancer Society totaling $74,000 — approximately the amount McAuliffe earned as a return on the investment and received in a campaign donation from Caramadre.

<snip>

Federal authorities say Caramadre, through his firm Estate Planning Resources, began developing products in the 1990s that used the identities of terminally ill people to purchase variable annuities from insurance companies. The annuities offered death benefits when those annuitants died. The investments — which Caramadre allegedly made on behalf of himself, friends, family and others — included returns of all the money invested and sometimes a guaranteed profit, federal authorities said

<snip>

http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/virginia-politics/mcauliffe-among-investors-in-rhode-island-insurance-scam-that-preyed-on-dying-people/2013/10/10/b7d937e0-3127-11e3-89ae-16e186e117d8_story.html

[ScreamingMeemie]

1. It's apparently incorrect information...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023819156

[reddread]

2. in what way?

how so?

[ScreamingMeemie]

3. Read the link.

It's clickable

[reddread]

5. lol

cant get a straight answer around here.
did you read your link?

[cali]

6. nothing in your post- NOTHING- negates this story

he invested in this sleazy scheme. And there is no fucking way that investors didn't know how disgusting, vile and sleazy this was.

oh and terry sleazeball piece of shit accepted big campaign donations from this creep. Gonna deny that too?

<snip>

In 2006, Caramadre also began investing in “death-put bonds” that relied on obtaining the identities of terminally ill people, according to prosecutors. These investments allowed the owner to redeem the bonds years or decades earlier than the maturity date when the bond’s co-owner died.

The FBI, in a November 2012 press release announcing mid-trial guilty pleas by Caramadre and Radhakrishnan, said Caramadre located terminally ill people by visiting AIDS patients at a hospice, locating relatives of terminally ill people, and placing an ad in a local Catholic newspaper offering $2,000 cash to people with a terminal illness.

In 2009, Caramadre gave McAuliffe’s campaign an $26,599 contribution, including an in-kind event donation of $1,599, according to records kept by the Virginia Public Access Project.

<snip>

http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/virginia-politics/mcauliffe-among-investors-in-rhode-island-insurance-scam-that-preyed-on-dying-people/2013/10/10/b7d937e0-3127-11e3-89ae-16e186e117d8_story.html

[ScreamingMeemie]

10. Erm... don't shoot the messenger there now. Not my post.

Just thought I'd bring it to your attention. Try to relax and have a nice day (iow, look before you leap down a throat).

[cali]

12. you made a false claim. sorry, but I don't fall for shit like that.

have a good day.

[ScreamingMeemie]

13. Ummmm...Not. My. Post.

See the OP of that thread?

On edit: See the "apparently" part of my post to you here????

I saw your post. I linked that post to it.

Whatever "shit" you are talking about is beyond me... Oy vey...

We need help when we rip each other to shreds for sharing information.

[PoliticAverse]

42. You appear to be confusing the _different_ retracted AP story with this Washington Post story.

The retracted AP story implied McAuliffe lied to federal investigators this story is about
McAuliffe being an investor in what turned out to be an insurance scam.

[ScreamingMeemie]

48. No... I'm not confusing anything. I simply tried to collate two parts of the same story

I will not try that again because one can not be simply neutral on DU anymore.

I don't know enough about McCauliffe and his investments to know whether he is a sleaze or not. I simply shared a news item.

Now? Is that not allowed here anymore????????????????

This is what I absolutely FUCKING abhor about DU and its more "spirited" members, no matter where they fall on the Left's spectrum.

Good job to you and cali both.

[PoliticAverse]

58. Sorry I couldn't help you clear up your misconception. n/t

[ScreamingMeemie]

62. ...and that makes no sense whatsoever.

You didn't clear up anything.

You told me I was "confused" about something I've yet to form an opinion on.

Next time, just as I told cali downthread... Look. Before. You. Leap.

Disgusting behavior (outside of politics) by a couple on this thread.

[PoliticAverse]

63. Ok, be sure to tell us if you decide the Washington Post story in the OP and the (retracted) AP

story discussed in the link you posted are different or not.

[ScreamingMeemie]

67. I think I'd rather not. You seem to be disingenuous and unwilling to admit

you've made a mistake here. I highly doubt we'll have much interaction because I haven't picked one side over the other in this particular DU battle. It is also why I haven't spent as much time here on DU in the past few years... It's a spiteful crew.

[PoliticAverse]

71. The person who appears to have made the mistake is you. You claimed that the OP's post

contained 'apparently incorrect information' (your words) and linked to a thread that debunked the AP's (retracted)
article which contains an erroneous claim not in the OP's Washington Post article.

There is no 'one side over the other' here. This is not a 'battle'.

[kelliekat44]

66. "Insurance scam" what? I knew the ACA was a fraud....Oh, wait, this was about private insurance

company?

[MADem]

4. Gee, a Dirty Tricks October Surprise. How unsurprising. nt

[cali]

7. how is this a dirty trick?

Are you denying the facts in this story? Yes? No?

Terry M. is a sleazy piece of crap. He always has been. He's disgusting. Unfortunately, he's better than the alternative, but that isn't saying much.

and see post 6 for more on this.

partisan denial. I'll never understand that particular form of abject stupidity.

[MADem]

73. You might want to check the lastest iteration of the "facts" of the story....

McAuliffe’s name appeared on a lengthy list of investors with Joseph A. Caramadre, an attorney and accountant who obtained the identities of dying people to set up annuities that ultimately cost insurance companies millions of dollars, the documents say.


The list also included the law firm of a former Rhode Island Supreme Court justice, a Roman Catholic monsignor, a former Cranston, R.I. police chief, and a bookmaker, according to The Providence Journal, which first reported McAuliffe’s investment Wednesday.

Federal court documents do not accuse McAuliffe of wrongdoing, and it wasn’t clear whether he had made money or lost money on the investments. His campaign spokesman said McAuliffe was a “passive investor” who was deceived like many others. Spokesman Josh Schwerin also said that the campaign and McAuliffe donated sums to the American Cancer Society totaling $74,000 — approximately the amount McAuliffe earned as a return on the investment and received in a campaign donation from Caramadre.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/virginia-politics/mcauliffe-among-investors-in-rhode-island-insurance-scam-that-preyed-on-dying-people/2013/10/10/b7d937e0-3127-11e3-89ae-16e186e117d8_story.html?clsrd


So, to reiterate:

Federal court documents do not accuse McAuliffe of wrongdoing.....McAuliffe was a “passive investor” who was deceived like many others.


That's not the impression created in the OP.

What you call "abject stupidity" is what most people call verifying information before making baseless accusations, as you apparently are wont to do.

[reddread]

8. please elaborate

other than a story being pulled, "presumably" because someone was identified at some point by the coincidental initials of T.M.
in some semi-classified identity obscuring record, not entirely inconsistent with a KNOWN T.M. who received a $26,000+ pittance of a contribution (WHICH WOULD BE DAMN HARD TO REFUTE NOW, WOULD IT NOT?)
might not have been the person who misled federal investigators?
is that what was going on?
...said to the stonewall with absolute optimism, again.

[MADem]

74. See post 73. nt

[monmouth3]

9. This was debunked as false and the paper retracted it..n/t

[reddread]

11. spell it out

with text.
too much trouble?
impossible?
jesus christ

[monmouth3]

16. Here

http://www.theatlanticwire.com/national/2013/10/associated-press-retracts-mcauliffe-story/70377/

[reddread]

20. yes, they retracted the story

they best disclose the identity of the other "T.M."
which is more than fishy enough. Why would they disguise the full name of someone?
potential dead person mafia hit?
holy cow.
26.6k in contributions?
That outfit better buy a policy on T.M.'s political career.
He is done.
but his potential influence over electoral votes in 2016 as gov. would never cause a story to hit the trash bin...

[cali]

22. aargh. that retraction has shit to do with the story I posted

as in nothing. zilch. zip. fucking nada.

that is a story retracting the claim that he lied to investigators. Are you fucking denying that he invested in this sleazy scheme or took big bucks from the guy behind it? Do tell.

[reddread]

25. slow down

read carefully. hope you dont mind being on the same side.
misdirected response, maybe?

[cali]

39. read what carefully? The story I posted does NOT make the

retracted claim that McAuliffe lied to investigators. It is a story about his investment in this scheme and his accepting campaign donations from its architect, Caramadre.

[ScreamingMeemie]

43. To put it super DUPER bluntly, the person you're yelling at has been agreeing with

you throughout this entire thread. You're yelling at the wrong person.

[cali]

14. no, it wasn't. he was an investor

what was bullshit, was the claim that he lied to investigators.

[PoliticAverse]

47. No it wasn't. You are apparently confusing the AP story with this Washington Post story.

The retracted AP story implied McAuliffe lied to federal investigators this story is about
McAuliffe being an investor in what turned out to be an insurance scam.

That the Washington Post hasn't retracted their story (which they released today) is easily seen by clicking
on the link in the OP.

[geek tragedy]

15. Given the lack of any allegation of any kind of wrongdoing by McAuliffe, how

is this newsworthy, especially here?

[BluegrassStateBlues]

17. Don't really give a fuck.

Hope he still demolishes Cooch.

[FSogol]

18. Bullshit. AP already pulled the story and said the TM mentioned in the indictment

was not Terry McAuliffe. You should delete this crap from the Cuccinelli campaign.



http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2013/10/09/associated-press-story-retraction-mcauliffe/2957183/

[cali]

19. wrong.

bzzzt. for fuck's sake. NOTHING, not one fucking thing in the story I posted is related to the retraction you're referring to.

Here's what was retracted, hon.

The Associated Press has withdrawn its story about documents in a federal fraud case alleging that Virginia Democratic gubernatorial nominee Terry McAuliffe lied to a federal official investigating a death benefits scheme. The indictment did not identify McAuliffe as the "T.M." who allegedly lied to investigators.

that's from your link. What wasn't retracted is that he was an investor in this disgusting scheme.

[reddread]

21. unreal

good job with the wheat and the chaff!

[cali]

24. oh that made just a shitload of sense. NOT.

He invested in a sleazy as hell scheme and took big bucks from the guy.

[Buddha_of_Wisdom]

26. Cali. The entire thread is false. It would be strongly advised that you delete the OP.

Thank you.

[cali]

33. tell me what's false about it and I will.

Mcauliffe's campaign admits he was an investor in this scheme and that he took big campaign contributions from caramadre. I will certainly delete my op if you can show me that what is in the WaPo story I posted isn't true.

As far as I understand it, what isn't true; the story that was retracted, is the claim that McAuliffe lied to investigators.

Please tell me what in the story I posted isn't true.

from the story:

Federal court documents do not accuse McAuliffe of wrongdoing, and it wasn’t clear whether he had made money or lost money on the investments. His campaign spokesman said McAuliffe was a “passive investor” who was deceived like many others. Spokesman Josh Schwerin also said that the campaign and McAuliffe donated sums to the American Cancer Society totaling $74,000 — approximately the amount McAuliffe earned as a return on the investment and received in a campaign donation from Caramadre.

“Terry was one of hundreds of passive investors several years ago and had no idea about the allegations against the defendant — who, at the time, was widely respected by business leaders and elected officials,” Schwerin said. “The allegations are horrible and he never would have invested if he knew he was being deceived.”

and sorry, but I think people have an obligation to know about where they're investing their money.

[Sedona]

38. Debunked. Thank you for your concern.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023820852

[cali]

44. again. bzzzt. no. what was retracted was the claim that

he lied to investigators, dear. this story makes no such claim. gad. do try to learn to read with some comprehension.

It's one thing to say you don't think this matters, that it doesn't bother you that he invested money in this scheme and that you don't care that he took campaign donations from Caramadre. It's another thing fucking entirely to claim that those FACTS have been debunked. they have NOT. His campaign admitted they were true.

ack.

[reddread]

29. hahahhaah all my fault

sometimes my ambiguities are my undoing.
Usually I expect the obvious to speak for itself.
major mistake, most of the time.

[FSogol]

23. Cuccinelli thanks you for your service.

[cali]

27. yeah. cucinelli made terry invest in this vile scheme and made

him accept big bucks from caramadre.

[Buddha_of_Wisdom]

28. and this "T.M." is a construction worker.

Absolutely nothing to do with McAuliffe.

May I suggest you delete the entire OP.

[reddread]

30. who?

seriously, where is that tidbit?

[Buddha_of_Wisdom]

31. If you read the retraction carefully

It explains the "T.M" while his identity is not revealed, but it is already said the guy is with the construction industry.

So I don't think McAuliffe was involved on it, and you and Cali are attempting to smear his name...

[reddread]

36. he smears himself, no help needed

No different than John Edwards and a bunch of other players.
History means nothing, doesnt it?
Who was T.M. in the 2000 overthrow of democracy?

[cali]

35. this story has nothing to do with the false claims that

McAuliffe lied to investigators.

Fucking duh.

[reddread]

32. the BIG red flag

those donations in the amount of the income?
How do you spell GUILT?
thats how I spell it, every time.

[whttevrr]

34. Wasn't this debunked already?

[cali]

37. nope. it sure as shit was NOT.

I'm beginning to doubt the reading comprehension abilities of more than a few of my fellow DUers.

McAuliffe's own campaign admits he was an investor in this scheme and that he took hefty campaign donations from Caramadre. He has now donated that money.

[FSogol]

45. So why did this come out today? Why was AP fed incorrect info on McAuliffe's involvement?

Why are people campaigning against the Democratic candidate on DU less than 30 days from the election?

[cali]

54. let me explain this very simply. just for you.

the story that was debunked is that McAuliffe lied to investigators, not that he was an investor in this scheme or that he took campaign contributions from Caramadre. His campaign admitted to both and donated the funds in question.

And I'm not campaigning against the sleazy piece of crap. I prefer him to the far worse religious wingnut Cucinelli. Give me Terry M's typical corrupt corporate sucking ass over Cucinelli any day of the week, but I'm not going to pretend he's anything but what he is and has always been.

[whttevrr]

46. Does swearing make you more intelligent?

OK, whatevs...

What kind of fucksnipity fuckshit are you trying to pass off as fucking intelligence? I've seen shitstains with more eloquence than your debate skillz.

I mean, does that work?

[cali]

50. no. I like to swear. simple as that. I like facts even more .

and that's what I've posted. Unlike YOU.

[whttevrr]

52. Really?

What facts?

Are you saying this story does not have issues with its validity?

[ProSense]

53. LOL!

Thread FAIL.

OP = Disaster.

Nasty comments throughout.

The poster nailed you.

[Arkana]

40. This was proven false--AP retracted the story.

[cali]

49. no it wasn't. not at all. not close. not in the fucking ball park.

here is what was retracted: that he lied to investigators.

Here is what was not: That he was an investor in this scheme and that he accepted large campaign donations from Caramadre. His campaign fucking admitted it and has donated the funds in question. That is the story I posted. NOTHING about the phony story that was debunked.

reading is fundafuckingmental.

[ProSense]

55. Your attempt to use this retracted story as a smear is disgusting.

no it wasn't. not at all. not close. not in the fucking ball park.

here is what was retracted: that he lied to investigators.

Here is what was not: That he was an investor in this scheme and that he accepted large campaign donations from Caramadre. His campaign fucking admitted it and has donated the funds in question. That is the story I posted. NOTHING about the phony story that was debunked.

reading is fundafuckingmental.

No, reading is not "fundafuckingmental," it's fundamental, and maybe if you dropped the vitriol you could see what everyone is pointing out.

Federal court documents do not accuse McAuliffe of wrongdoing, and it wasn’t clear whether he had made money or lost money on the investments. His campaign spokesman said McAuliffe was a “passive investor” who was deceived like many others. Spokesman Josh Schwerin also said that the campaign and McAuliffe donated sums to the American Cancer Society totaling $74,000 — approximately the amount McAuliffe earned as a return on the investment and received in a campaign donation from Caramadre.

“Terry was one of hundreds of passive investors several years ago and had no idea about the allegations against the defendant — who, at the time, was widely respected by business leaders and elected officials,” Schwerin said. “The allegations are horrible and he never would have invested if he knew he was being deceived.”

The story was debunked.

Journalism FAIL: AP retracts hit piece on Terry McAuliffe
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023820852

[seveneyes]

64. No, McAuliffe invested in sleaze

Sometimes you have to accept reality and realize there are bad elements in the party. Ignorance is not an excuse. Sure, the GOP candidate is also scum, but it does not excuse McAwful.

[ProSense]

69. More silliness. n/t

[ScreamingMeemie]

59. If reading is so fundafuckingmental to you...

...you owe me an apology.

Your response to me upthread was completely without comprehension (as was your response to redread who was actually agreeing with you). But then, I think you already realize that and would rather it just went away.

Signed,

A Howard Dean supporting, left of Obama Democrat

Look. Before. You. Leap.

Sometimes people really DO just share news.

[AnotherMcIntosh]

41. What's next? Is it going to come out that he's making money from stock in health-insurance corps?

[FSogol]

51. In the mail, I recieved a GOP attack ad attacking Eileen Filer-Corn (our Democratic incumbent).

The ad attacked her for being a lawyer for "special interests" before she became a state delegate. "If she helped those special interest then, who knows what she is doing now!", screamed the ad.

Bob McDonnell and Ken Cuccinelli are so corrupt and they are trying to promote the idea that the entire Democratic ticket is no different than themselves. Sadly, DUers are helping them.

[AnotherMcIntosh]

61. Since the 3rd-Way strategy is to pull votes away from the Republican Party by acting like Republcans

in some aspects, I find it hard to accept the concept that they should never be criticized for doing so.

Slapping a big &quot D)" after someone's name does not, of course, mean that they share the same values of Democrats who rememeber FDR and the programs that he created for the benefit of America as a whole.

If even one DUer has taken the position that any Democrats are EXACTLY like Republicans in all aspects, I haven't seen that.

What I see as disappointing and undercutting the FDR programs and policies are those who are willing to vote for anyone who has a big &quot D)" after their names. I hope that description doesn't apply to you. I will remain true to my liberal principles no matter who is in office.

[leftstreet]

68. +1

Nicely stated

[whttevrr]

56. Fucking douchenozzle motherfuckers need to read a motherfucking fact or two!

http://mediamatters.org/blog/2013/10/10/ap-jumps-the-gun-on-false-mcauliffe-accusation/196385

The McAuliffe campaign responded after the AP published its report, denying that the "T.M." identified in the court documents was McAuliffe and pointing out that "he was not interviewed by law enforcement on April 20, 2010; rather, he was in Richmond for a day of meetings." The campaign further stated that McAuliffe was a "passive investor" and "he was never involved in the referral of any annuitants to Mr. [Joseph] Caramadre, ever."

What the fuck?

Why can't fucksnot idiots fucking read past the damned fucking headline to pull a wet snot thought out of their own fucking assholes?

Why?

[MADem]

75. Never mind that the feds CLEARED HIM of wrongdoing--some folks prefer to spread manure rather than

light.

It's the oddest thing.

[PoliticAverse]

57. Followup story from the AP with more info and noting their retraction of incorrect accusation..

There is no allegation of wrongdoing by McAuliffe or that he or other investors knew of efforts to defraud the terminally ill. The Associated Press withdrew a story Wednesday night that said McAuliffe was accused in court documents of having lied to a federal investigator looking into the benefit scheme; those documents referred to someone by the initials "T.M.," but did not identify McAuliffe as that person.

Campaign spokesman Josh Schwerin said McAuliffe was a passive investor with no knowledge of the actions of Caramadre, "who, at the time, was widely respected by business leaders and elected officials. The allegations are horrible and he never would have invested if he knew he was being deceived."

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireStory/mcauliffe-investors-list-ri-benefits-case-20527913

[CanonRay]

60. What a choice for Virginians

a DINO dirtbag or a complete wacko nutjob.

[Blue_Tires]

80. Easy choice for me

McAuliffe every day of the week and twice on Sunday

[BlueToTheBone]

65. more scum. n/t

[Dollface]

70. This sounds like a Free Republic comment section.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

72. Can we self-delete now that this story has been debunked? nt

[spanone]

76. ...Associated Press Retracts Terry McAuliffe Story

Virginia gubernatorial candidate Terry McAuliffe was caught up in a minor scandal Wednesday night when a report from the Associated Press erroneously identified the Democratic nominee as being mentioned in an indictment and saying that he had lied to investigators. The report, first sent out around 9:45 p.m., turned out to be false and the AP retracted the story shortly before 11:30 p.m.

The story, which is still up on some websites with an accompanying disclaimer, claimed that, "Documents in a federal fraud case allege that...Terry McAuliffe lied to a federal official investigating a Rhode Island estate planner now imprisoned for receiving death benefits on annuities secured on terminally ill people without their knowledge."

The documents come from a criminal investigation into Joseph Caramadre, a Rhode Island estate planner, who supposedly stole terminally ill people's identities and used them to illegally obtain their death benefits.

The mistake in the AP's reporting comes from misidentifying a suspect referred to by the initials T.M. as McAuliffe. According to a statement provided to NBC4 Washington by the candidate's campaign:

http://www.theatlanticwire.com/national/2013/10/associated-press-retracts-mcauliffe-story/70377/

[snooper2]

77. If you have read this far into the thread-

It's time for a quick break for Angry Grandpa!

&feature=c4-overview&list=UUPFVhmjjSkFhfstm2LghZIg




After video please resume

[notadmblnd]

78. It's been debunked

posted here in GD somewhere

[MineralMan]

79. Yet another triumph for Yellow Journalism.

If everyone on DU examined where their money is invested, through 401Ks or mutual funds, most of us would be ashamed of some of the companies. Investments are often either passive or even blind. When it suits some people, they go dig around and try to slam people, based on their investments. Sometimes that is warranted. Usually, it's not. I'm sure McCauliffe was unaware that the investment was in a fraudulent company that was ripping people off. So, there was no intent.

And yet, here we are, arguing about it. Waste of time, IMO.

[greenman3610]

81. more false equivalence bullshit

[Arkana]

83. Sorry to resurrect this, but not only was Terry McAuliffe NOT the "T.M." identified

by the AP's source (for which they fired three journalists), it turns out that the Cooch people have been the ones pushing this story.

McAuliffe's a scumbag, but not because of this.