The NFL..... I think I am over it, are you?

[Bennyboy]

Sorry but, I think the NFL is gone too far now. the ignorance of concussions (remember when I posted that I thought having kids play football was child abuse and I got crapped on for it?).

The rape culture. As we are seeing this is very prevalent among athletes but football players in particular.

But that pales in comparison to the overt thugggishness that league shows. The violence with Hernadez and the gang bang mentality..... Rae Carruth,the constant gun crimes and now one of the best players on my team (Aldon Smith)apparently lives in a gun culture that is so prevelant with guns that someone walks around with assault rifles at parties. he is now in rehab with his second DUI at the moment. Lots of questions here, most pressing is that shots were fired to disperse and no one was arrested? http://www.sacbee.com/2013/10/10/5809138/49ers-aldon-smith-facing-three.html

Also one of my favorite former 49 players was involved.

I've been a 49er season ticket holder since Kezar,(but gave em up a couple of years ago) so I am a huge fan, as I was of boxing once, but now I don't know. I was going to go to a game this year to see all the people who came through my life in that building (I was in the same seats since the move, as were almost everyone in my section) and in the parking lots (Gate F tailgater for LYPHE!).

[Atman]

1. They're just our modern-day Gladiators.

People cheered as "athletes" got eaten by lions in Roman times. We're at that point. We don't care. We pay hundreds of dollars per seat to see big giant freakish mutants crush each others' skulls...and it's FUN! We make nachos and pour endless beers and CHEER for the carnage!

Fuck 'em. I've never liked football, and I don't like it know. Barbaric bullshit. But this is America. Too much money is involved, from souvenir makers to massive stadium developers. Money. Money. It won't stop as long as people are getting rich off of it.

[Sheldon Cooper]

10. Yes. There was a football/concussion thread a few weeks ago, and I mentioned

that maybe they should change the rules to try to protect player's heads. I was met with 'but but but then it wouldn't be football!!!' You are right - the bloodlust that must be fed at all times is far more important than the men who supply the entertainment. It's definitely a lion/gladiator thing, and the only thing we can hope for is, like the Romans, one day we'll figure out that this just isn't fun anymore.

[HappyMe]

13. Actually there are a couple of rule changes.

The 2 games I watched last Sunday had a lot of penalties called for new contact rule violations.

I think that there will be still more rules put in place.

[truebluegreen]

107. It's too late.

The NFL has been hiding the truth for years, but the fact is that the game--and the mutant players--has/have gone beyond the ability of rule changes and refs to rein it/them in, and make it safe.

I wonder how many retired pro players are willing to have their kids play the game?

Soccer here we come.

[HappyMe]

114. It's not a done deal yet.

There probably will be more rule changes.

You can watch soccer now, you know.

[truebluegreen]

118. I think it is.

I think we are about to see the generational shift in attitude toward the game. I haven't actually watched much since the mid-90s (I who remember the Denver Broncos with vertical orange stripes on their socks) and won't again.

I don't like the game, the players, the attitudes, the money--anything. Add in the physical harm a player can do to himself or others? Nothing entertaining about it. As has been said elsewhere, gladiators.

Bread and circuses. At best.

[HappyMe]

121. Soccer isn't bread and circuses?

Golf? Tennis?

We'll see about this big 'generational shift'. You're entitled to your opinion.

[truebluegreen]

124. Not as much blood.

But you are right: it is all bread and circuses and I don't watch any of it.

The only sports I like anymore are the ones that I personally can play/do.

You are also entitled to your opinion and I wish you joy of it.

[HappyMe]

134. Soccer fans beat the living hell out of one another.

Plenty of blood there.

Right back.

[truebluegreen]

136. Perhaps I was too literal for you.

In any case, I don't care. Don't care about soccer, don't care about football, golf, tennis...don't find any game entertaining or even interesting if I am not participating myself. Bread and circuses, with or without blood.

Clear enough now?

[HappyMe]

138. You don't care so much that

you post in a football thread.

Yes, very clear.


I find YouTube and Twitter to be the ultimate in bread and circuses entertainment.

[truebluegreen]

167. Have you got a point?

Trying to make yourself feel better about following sports, or something? I posted in a football thread because I think the game is barbaric and dangerous and should be outlawed. Won't be, of course because Freedumb! and Money, but should be. Try to justify it to someone else, it won't fly here.

and fyi I don't do youtube or twitter either. Haven't you got better, more important things to focus on? If not, that's fine for you, just don't try to pretend it makes any kind of sense outside the bloodthirsty and/or profit motive.

[HappyMe]

169. Have you got a point?

I mean, other than your holier than thou snarky attitude.

I really have no need to justify anything to you or anybody else. Nor do I give a crap if it flies with you or not.

I don't need to make myself feel better about anything, thanks for your concern though.

[truebluegreen]

177. I made my point; yours seems to be that you don't like it.

[HappyMe]

179. It seems to bother you that I don't agree with your opinion/point.

I'm done here. Go pester somebody else.

[zappaman]

171. "Freedumb"?

You mean "freedom"?
I don't have a problem with freedom.
Do you?

[truebluegreen]

176. Nope. Just Freedumb. Why?

[zappaman]

183. I don't understand you use of "freedumb".

What's your point?

[truebluegreen]

195. I'm not in favor of freedumb,

which I define as the freedom to do stupid crap. Do I think it should be outlawed, and have laws passed to stop it? 'Course not. Doesn't mean I won't call it when I see it.

And imo playing football, at darn near any level, is freedumb. The possibility of injury, including the life-altering or life-ending variety is too high. I wouldn't do it, I wouldn't let my kids do it, I don't even like watching it. That leaves aside every other offensive thing associated with the "culture", from high school on up.

This from a fan from a very early age. I watched while my team had 13 straight losing seasons. I waited 37 years for them to win a Superbowl. I don't even know who the coach or quarterback is. I don't watch at all; there's no pleasure or entertainment value for me. It is just a day/evening/weekend wasted.

You don't have to agree and I couldn't care less if you did or didn't. Understand now?

[LittleBlue]

133. Take it from someone who watches the Premier League

every weekend: soccer will not replace football. I am obsessed with watching European soccer. That person you're replying to must never have watched a match.

It takes a completely different set of skills to play soccer. Foot coordination, intelligence, finesse, cardiovascular stamina, etc. These are not the same skills used widely in football. Most NFL players sprint in short bursts and rest. A 300 pound offensive lineman could not run the 13km that a midfielder runs in a soccer game. Players over 200 pounds in soccer are extremely rare. 180 pounds is considered heavy. That is why most soccer players are much smaller and especially lighter and than football players. Soccer is continuous running, the fitness of a long distance runner is required to play at top level. Football is about sprinting.

Baseball and basketball have not been the death of football, so why would soccer? The similarity in skills between soccer and football are far less than between basketball and football.

[HappyMe]

135. My sons played soccer for awhile.

I was amazed at the co-ordination and the fact that nobody passed out from the constant running.

They started playing hockey when they young. They're 27 and they still play hockey.

[awoke_in_2003]

180. The world's most boring sport...

has a concussion problem, too.

[truebluegreen]

181. Don't even know what that is nor,

if I don't play it, do I care.

[awoke_in_2003]

188. I was referring to soccer. nt

[nil desperandum]

17. Concussion discussion

Sadly nothing will protect their heads. The more advanced the helmet the more likely a concussion will occur as players believe the helmet will protect them. The young men involved are completely unaware that nothing in the helmet stops their brain from sloshing around inside their skulls which is root cause of the concussion. Unless the helmet is designed to somehow decelerate the head inside the helmet at a rate different than the instant stop of impact this issue can't be fixed. Helmets of that nature would be outrageously expensive and not likely to permeate the youth market for decades if ever.

That's the real dirty secret, that better helmets of today still don't prevent a concussion and actually increase the likelihood of concussion as more players use the head as a weapon.

Rules against head to head contact offer a very limited benefit as many of these concussions are the instant stopping of the head against a leg, chest, or the ground. Rules to prevent that contact change the game completely and are unlikely to be implemented.

<sarc> But hey all those kids know the risks right? All the grown ups involved are honorable men and women and they are not exploiting those kids to keep high school or college coaching careers. No one would ever risk a kid's permanent health by ignoring any safety risks, after all if people were like that we'd need something like OSHA or the EPA to keep folks honest and we all know that we don't actually have to use those organizations to protect people those organizations are just window dressing....</sarc>

[Sheldon Cooper]

36. You seem to be saying that there is simply nothing that can be done, and I don't buy that.

Rules to prevent that contact change the game completely and are unlikely to be implemented.

So the game changes completely. So what? Are people SO incapable of handling change that we need to just keep allowing boys and men to sustain permanent and devastating injuries, for our pleasure and because we can't handle change? Is that really what people think? That is incomprehensible to me.

[nil desperandum]

128. Money

I am not suggesting nothing can be done, I am suggesting nothing of substance will be done because most people are not really concerned about what happens to football players.

I believe when money, in the quantities that the NFL and college programs generate, is involved child safety no longer matters. I am basing that opinion on the complete lack of action to change any of this. If during the normal operation of any consumer product like a hair dryer there were let's say 136,000-300,000 injuries requiring medical intervention and 6 months after the initial injury a third of those injured were still not recovered from their injuries how long do you think that product would last on the market?

With football we appear willing to forgive that level of injury as part and parcel of participation.

Can you name any other profession where during the normal course of performing that work your life expectancy would be reduced by 20 years after suffering numerous minor head injuries and a few more serious concussion injuries and nothing would be done about it?
I can't, thus I can only assume we don't give a sh1t what happens to football players.

[The2ndWheel]

140. The players have to deal with things like that

The NFLPA has untapped power.

Can you name any other legal profession where people not directly involved in the job made things safer for the people who did the job? If the players don't make their own job safer, what are fans supposed to do? Other than far more than the majority of them not paying money to watch the game, which you'll never get going, because there is no fan union.

Why do unions exist at all? Because everyone not associated with whatever dangerous job have their own jobs to do. Fans just want to escape their own problems and kill a few hours watching a game with some friends.

People don't really care about football players in general, the same way people haven't cared about coal mine workers in general, or line workers at a factory in general, or the people at any other job for that matter.

If the NFLPA wants to go on strike, and/or bargain better working conditions or pay for themselves, they'll be able to do so when their CBA contract is up.

[nil desperandum]

172. every other legal profession comes under OSHA

OSHA regulates every other industry in America, can you imagine if the printing trade suddenly had graphic artists being concussed every week and receiving torn ligaments while performing their jobs?

The fines would be crippling to that business. Some legal analysts claim OSHA applies to the NFL but OSHA does nothing with respect to the NFL. At least not in any real cognitive sense.

I think you are right that people don't care about football players, at least not in quantifying injuries. But I do believe that eventually once publicity made clear the horrendous working conditions in some businesses that people were concerned about mine workers being killed and all workers being injured, it's why our politicians were able to create OSHA in the first place.

I think this kind of debate shines a similar light on pro football, and doesn't show the owners or the NFL as great guys. It kind of shows them to be selfish pr1cks more concerned about making a buck than worrying about crippling injuries and serious brain trauma in the face of mounting statistical evidence of these events.

[Sheldon Cooper]

154. I understand now, and you make perfect sense.

Can you name any other profession where during the normal course of performing that work your life expectancy would be reduced by 20 years after suffering numerous minor head injuries and a few more serious concussion injuries and nothing would be done about it?
I can't, thus I can only assume we don't give a sh1t what happens to football players.

We really don't care what happens to these boys and men. In most other workplaces, OSHA would have something to say about the level of injuries being incurred, but not in the NFL.

[nil desperandum]

165. sense

I'm not sure I ever make perfect sense, but I do believe when exorbitant amounts of money are involved people dying gets little airtime. It's why planes burn so easily, it's why the Pinto exploded, it's why so many things were left undone for so long. Of course once we started to get things right with safety in the workplace in America and that started to take away a fraction of profit our fearless leaders started signing Free Trade Agreements with nations that don't worry about things like safety and death in the workplace...

[The2ndWheel]

35. I'm sure you'd hear the "but but but" from players too

They've changed rules. They'll change more rules. But yes, change too many rules too much, and you don't have football anymore.

They choose to play football because they want to play football. They get paid a lot of money because of the risk involved in playing a physical brand of football. They could all play flag football if they wanted to, but the money wouldn't be nearly the same.

The NFLPA probably isn't as strong as it should be. If they were, they could probably make the game safer, and make more money at the same time.

[CrispyQ]

80. Maybe we should have a national discussion on why our culture glorifies brutality & violence. -nt

[The2ndWheel]

123. I'm guessing it would be a complicated answer

The simple answer for football, or sports in general, is that fans grew up playing whatever sport, can't do it themselves anymore other than a much slower pickup game here or there, and pay to watch professional players do something at a high level. Players get paid a lot of money because it's risky, and people want to watch them do what they do.

[JonLP24]

173. Amount of money they're paid isn't because of risk

but because of supply and demand. Football players are hard to replace, competition from other teams drives up the salaries.

[elfin]

2. Wish I could quit my Aron Rodgers crush.

Makes it difficult to quit the NFL, even though the rationale to do so is compelling.

Next up - college and all other levels of this dangerous sport.

[Blue_Tires]

3. But it's still baseball season?

[pscot]

4. I hear you

I still love the game, but the corporatization has brought a kind of East German mentality to the whole enterprise. And machismo on steroids is damned ugly.

[HappyMe]

5. I'm over being lectured

to by people saying that they are over it.

[zappaman]

14. +1! n/t

[yuiyoshida]

19. Agree..

I just love my Oakland Raiders

[zappaman]

21. You finally have a QB!

I like that guy, but am a Bronco fan so don't like him that much...

[yuiyoshida]

23. I loved that game against

Last edited Thu Oct 10, 2013, 02:09 PM - Edit history (1)

The Chargers, but yeah, Denver is always a tough nut to crack! Next up the Chiefs. Fingers crossed..

Terrelle Pryor

[Capt. Obvious]

24. I picked up Keenan Allen the day of that game

and started him over Steve Smith.

I looked like a genius!

[zappaman]

25. Chiefs may be 5-0, but it's a soft 5-0

I like Oakland in this game.

[HappyMe]

34. I think you're right.

The Chiefs can't hang on much longer against a loss. I'm wondering if when they lose, they lose spectacularly.

[Lurker Deluxe]

87. tough crowd

Kinda hard to call a defense that has given up less than 12 a game with 21 sacks, 7 picks, and 5 forced fumbles "soft".

But to each their own.

[yuiyoshida]

88. yay! Touch Down Raaaaaaaaaaaiiiiiiders!

[Capt. Obvious]

207. That was a soft win

[yuiyoshida]

208. That game on Sunday

Was just horrible, well...if you are a Raiders fan. But KC clearly dominated..and poor Terrelle Pryor spent much of the game looking up at the sky and probably seeing stars, despite it was a day game. Things sure fell apart in the Second half...and the guy who was snapping the ball...will probably be traded pretty soon if he keeps up that performance.

Twas interesting that the crowd in KC broke the world record for the loudest crowd... Good for them.

[LittleBlue]

38. Best reply in this thread

[LordGlenconner]

77. +1

The OP is a little sanctimonious and a little too wrapped up in anecdotal evidence (Re: sex predators, not concussions) for my taste.

But hey, it takes all kinds.

[truebluegreen]

113. Interesting avatar and screen name--

just out of curiosity, how much do you know about the game?

[LordGlenconner]

126. Played it in elementary school, middle school and high school

Covered college football for my university's newspaper (a very large Big 12 School) and also covered about 400 high school games over a 12 year period at several different newspapers. I also spent 2 summers covering an NFL training camp and saw how violent the game can be in a way most people here have not. I'd say I'm fairly well versed on it but not exactly a wonk.

I've been concerned about concussions long before it became the cause du jour in the media. That wasn't my objection to the OP. It's the broad brush painting of those who play the game being sex predators, which is of course absurd.

I do see in the long term football evolving to more of a 7 on 7 game where it's just quarterbacks, receivers and defensive backs. No lineman, running backs or linebackers. These kinds of leagues are becoming more and more popular for young players and adults. That's where the game is likely going long term assuming it survives.

[Puzzledtraveller]

146. What HappyMe said.

[Jesus Malverde]

6. The two hours of ads for a one hour game does it for me...nt

[nil desperandum]

27. no kidding

If there's lot of pass attempts and the clock is stopping with every play boy oh boy you can spend almost 4 hours trying to get in that one hour game....it's a perfect "sport" for television. Everything about the game is designed to sell product, lots of stoppages, lots of timeouts, plenty of "official" reviews in the last two minutes all accompanied by an advertisement for beers or viagra....

Maybe if so many middle aged fat asses were outside being active and weren't sitting around drinking beer on Sundays they wouldn't need the viagra to get their drunk, broke dicks hard again...but to each their own I guess..

[BeyondGeography]

7. If the brutal injuries aren't enough, there's always Howee, Jimmee, Terree and Mikee

giving each other nuggies and carrying on like adolescents. Oh for the restraint of Pat Summerall...when men were actually grown-ups. That time has passed.

Take your Sundays and Mondays back. Life is really too short.

[City Lights]

8. I've been over it for awhile.

I hope more people start seeing the light.

[nadinbrzezinski]

9. Sports are our modern day opium of the people

IMHO.

Feel free to flame. But I see it all the time.

[nil desperandum]

11. Been over it all my life

Sports can be a great way for kids to learn some team camaraderie and self discipline, but the NFL ceased to be about a sport decades ago when they realized they could be a marketing operation. Once the NFL realized that selling licensed merchandise was the key to the gold it was pretty obvious how the sport would play out after that.

I've never much worried about the problems of millionaire athletes playing for billionaire owners....but I understand sports matter a lot to some folks, sorry you've become jaded by it. Of course you might be amazed at how much free time and extra cash you have around now and find something else you enjoy more than the NFL.

[Capt. Obvious]

12. Should I start Chris Johnson or Andre Ellington as my flex?

I initially have Andre in there but I'm worried I may miss out on a CJ2K TD.

[Inkfreak]

75. I'm so over CJ2K. Ya might be better off finding a WR to put in your flex.

And no, I'll never be "over" football to answer the OPs question.

[Capt. Obvious]

83. I'm keeping him on the roster

Bye weeks coming up and 2 games against Jax.

[Sissyk]

92. No, on CJ for this week.

The Titans go to Seattle. I don't see him having a breakout running game there. lol!

[AgingAmerican]

15. Rape culture in the NFL? Gun culture in the NFL?

DUIs?

The problem isn't the NFL, sorry.

[HappyMe]

55. All of society's ills

come from football, you know.

[zappaman]

58. Bullshit.

It's 50/50 with video games.

[HappyMe]

69. Crap.

I forgot about that.

I'll bet the football video games are making heads explode.

[Demo_Chris]

166. You forgot smokers and pit bulls. WTF. nt

[awoke_in_2003]

185. And Olive Garden breast feeders. nt

[zappaman]

186. I think we can all agree the NFL is not as bad as NASA...

who want to bomb the moon!

[awoke_in_2003]

189. I still have a couple of those threads bookmarkered...

(don't bomb the moon). Sometimes I need a good laugh.

[former9thward]

16. So go watch golf.

The rest of us will watch a real sport.

[jakeXT]

82. Watching golf is really dangerous

[HappyMe]

98. It would be dangerous for me.

I would fall asleep and be trampled by people in ugly clothes with visors on.

[former9thward]

120. I knew there was a reason I've never been on a golf course.

[maxsolomon]

18. As soon as my team wins the Superbowl

I'll be willing to be over it.

They're almost there...

[Logical]

20. LOL, yes because the players don't know it is dangerous! Silly post! nt

[zappaman]

22. Who do you like this weekend in the OAK/KC game?

As you know, KC is 5-0 but they seem like a weak team.
And, as you know. OAK finally has a good QB!

Hmmm....

[Capt. Obvious]

26. KC is legit

[Upton]

31. I don't know about that..

the combined record of the Chiefs 5 opponents is 7-18.

[zappaman]

33. I agree

And I don't think they can play catch up if they get behind.
Smith rarely throws over 10 yds and their leading receiver is their RB...

[Capt. Obvious]

43. Lemme rephrase

Their defense is legit. Their QB is a game manager. They have one of the best RB's in the game.

Ergo, they're legit. Raiders may cover, that's it.

[zappaman]

48. Defense is decent.

Their QB cannot throw over 10 yds and seems to not know Dwayne Bowe is on the team.
The RB is their leading receiver and that will be a problem.
That said, it's nice to see them competitive after the lean years...

[BlueCheese]

158. But if you take out the Chiefs, they're 7-13!

[yuiyoshida]

97. my OAKLAND RAIDERS OF COURSE!...

Okay, I am a bit BIAS ... on this

[jeff47]

116. I have to go with KC

But that's because I always go against Oakland. I lived in LA when they moved out, and the shit they spewed as they ran out the door isn't something I can forgive.

[LanternWaste]

28. Ever since the league invited Vick to return and play...

Ever since the league invited Vick to return and play, I've been personally boycotting all things NFL. Not watching my favorite team lose every week was a bit depressing for me the first season, but since then, I've gotten used to.

After watching a seriously critical documentary on the NFL's culpability and their denial of the concussion rates and severity earlier this week, I'm pretty sure I may just give up on the Green Gridiron for good.

[Tree-Hugger]

56. I have not

watched a single Eagles game since they hired Vick. I have been patiently waiting for him to be traded. Football is my favorite major sport and I do miss watching.

[LanternWaste]

68. As I'm a Dallas fan, I haven't really been missing anything anyway.

In the beginning, I wanted to rationalize that since Vick was playing for Philly, I could watch any non-Eagles game, but I soon forced myself to realize that it was the league, rather than one specific team, that allowed him to return.

But again, my boycott of the NFL is simply that -- my boycott... I've never expected anyone else to follow suit as we all look at things differently.

Anyway, as I'm a Dallas fan, I haven't really been missing anything...

[Tree-Hugger]

159. You are a Cowboys fan, therefore, I cannot agree with you.

Just kidding.

I feel the same....this is my boycott and I don't expect others to follow.

It appears I have not missed much either, as an Eagles fan.

[LanternWaste]

192. Don't throw snowballs at me!

Don't throw snowballs at me, you crazy Eagles fan! (Bounty Bowl II, 1992) (Just kidding, too)

[Jamaal510]

200. Vick already has spent time in prison,

he had his reputation and career trashed, and he has been doing community work to prevent further instances of dog fighting. Continuing to hold a grudge with a guy who repaid his debts already is not going to bring all of those dead dogs back to life.

[LittleBlue]

29. Give up football because of a concussions study? lol no

Good luck with that, though.

Almost forgot, go Seahawks!

[HERVEPA]

59. LOL?

[LittleBlue]

62. Yes, lol

As in, the predictable anti-football crowd is exploiting a concussions study.

30 years from now when I tune in to watch Monday Night Football, I'll remember them fondly.

[Junkdrawer]

101. Hilarious...

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/sports/league-of-denial/the-four-stages-of-cte/

[davidpdx]

199. I saw a short preview for this

I'm not inside the US so I have to wait until it comes out and is available by other sources to watch, but I think it will be interesting. Watching Steve Young get hit again like I did when that actual game took place was hard. I'll have to look and see if I can find it.

[HERVEPA]

102. Geez

I watch football, though I wish I could kick the habit.
But anyone who doesn't believe the issue is real, or thinks it laughable, may have suffered from too many already.
Or is just heartless perhaps.

[LittleBlue]

108. Or maybe we're just not tools

who believe a concussion study and some player getting a DUI is cause to quit football. I'll go with that one.


You think I'm heartless? I'll never recover from that, some random guy on the internet calling me heartless.

[nil desperandum]

142. I'm with you

the data on the concussions is about as reliable as the data on global warming....

/sarc

[LanternWaste]

194. In this usage, "exploit" means to use a current medical consensus to invalidate an emotional and irr

" anti-football crowd is exploiting a concussions study..."

In this usage, "exploit" means to use a current medical consensus to invalidate an emotional and irrational position?

Then yeah... serious exploitation.

[Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin]

30. Rape culture?

Not among NFL fans I know but then I'm picky about who I hang out with.

[eissa]

32. For every Aldon Smith, there is a Vernon Davis

An artist who operates his own art gallery and provides scholarships for art students http://www.sfartscommission.org/CAE/arts-education/2012/05/29/vernon-davis-awards-lowell-student-with-visual-arts-scholarship/. Or Drew Brees whose foundation donated almost $20 million to cancer patients, victims of Hurricane Katrina, and other charitable causes. Brandon Marshall started a charity to help people suffering from mental illness.

Unfortunately, players like the above don't get media coverage for their efforts, because it's just not that exciting. It's far more sensational to read about a player's bad behavior. As for Aldon Smith, I'm a HUGE 49er fan and love the guy and now that he's in treatment I hope he gets the help he needs to conquer his demons.

[Upton]

65. As a big 49er fan I agree 100%..

you never hear anything about Vernon Davis. The media would rather focus on the negatives.

[eissa]

74. We heard about him when he was the "bad boy"

When he was first signed up and getting into fights. But ever since he cleaned up his act and became a team leader, not so much. Most of these guys come from poorer backgrounds, and all of a sudden they are swimming in money and being surrounded by really questionable people. It would be overwhelming for anyone in their early 20s to deal with, and some don't handle it well at all, and they're the ones the media reports on.

[HappyMe]

91. Exactly.

There are a bunch of football players that do good things for their communities and charities. You hear about some of it, but I think most of them keep it on the down low.

[Bennyboy]

94. "love the guy?"

Really an illegal gun toting thug who has 2 DUIs in a short period? Please, I've already written the Niners about this guy. Get rid of him, now. I don't support any other things that features that type of violence, why should I give the NFL anything different?

And yes the Michael Vick story makes me sick to my stomach. the Rae Carruth story makes me sick (he's from Sacramento too)and the Aaron Hernandez story is about to make everyone sick.

Good for Vernon Davis. Good for anyone that does the right thing but somewhere the NFL has to draw the line on bad actors. teams certainly have to and this guy makes me sick just thinking about it.

[eissa]

96. He's 23

I'm not ready to throw in the towel on him yet. From what I've read on him, most say he's a nice guy off the field, but has engaged in some amazingly stupid and self-destructive acts. If he comes out of his stint in rehab showing signs of improvement, then great. If not, then yeah, I would support cutting him from the roster.

[okieinpain]

37. just men acting like boys. n/t.

[d_b]

39. My Giants are soon to be 0-6

So, yea, I'm over it.

[zappaman]

41. I'm still shocked at their play this season.

What do you think are the reasons for this complete meltdown?

Oh, and thanks to the OP for starting a football thread!

[d_b]

84. I've no idea what's going on

Some guys are injured, the o-line is garbage, eli throwing picks left and right, no rushing. Just...crap. At this point they should tank for draft picks and pray for good health next season.

[LittleBlue]

45. Look at the bright side

Suck for Clowney

[KamaAina]

73. Clowney seems to be doing his level best to avoid even being a first-round pick

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/nfl--jadeveon-clowney-still-top-draft-pick--nfl-exec---i-d-be-scared-to-death-to-take-him--with-top-10-pick-221240941.html

Only a few weeks ago, Jadeveon Clowney was known as the most feared pass rusher in college football. He made highlights with his hits and headlines with his comments about how he saw worry in quarterbacks' eyes.

Now he's stirring up a more subtle concern: Is he no longer a surefire top pick in a 2014 NFL draft that looks to be heavy on QBs?...

The issue is not talent. The source, who asked not to be named, said Clowney was one of the best collegiate talents he'd ever seen. Yet he has "major concerns" about consistency....

The suggestion that Clowney "doesn't want to play" may bring extra scrutiny from NFL front offices. It's possible Clowney is protecting his future earnings by being cautious with his health – something that is understandable considering how much money is on the line – yet work ethic is something NFL executives will be gauging between the end of the college football season and the draft.

[LittleBlue]

81. I sure hope so!

Hope he falls. Really, really far. Like to the Seahawks' first pick.

[ballabosh]

196. My Bears needed a break

So, thanks.

[Jamaal510]

201. Just be thankful that the Giants at least won 2 SBs recently;

my team (the Raiders) haven't even made the playoffs in over a decade. I really have no idea when they'll ever make it back again.

[NightWatcher]

40. I wish we had a pro NFL team here in Jacksonville

[zappaman]

42. LOL!

Good lord, not only are they terrible...they have absolutely nothing to build on.
Sad...

[NightWatcher]

47. my friend thinks they're sucking on purpose so the city wont mind when they move to London

The owner just bought a UK Football Club (soccer) and wants to play more NFL games across the pond.

[zappaman]

53. I don't think there will be a London team.

Just too hard logistically to pull off.
However, there will be more and more games over there.
And the Jags will go somewhere...

[Tommy_Carcetti]

127. Jags aren't going anywhere.

The attendance issues are overplayed. In 2009 they did struggle at the gate, but since then they've had respectable attendance and haven't suffered any blackouts.

People talk about the tarps in the stadium but that's actually only because they built the stadium extra large for the annual Florida-Georgia game. The tarps only serve reduce the capacity to normal NFL standards.

They are horrible this year, however. Really, really, really horrible. I actually wouldn't mind seeing local hero Tebow get signed up for the rest of the year. I don't think he'd lead them to the playoffs but at least he'd give the home crowds something to cheer about, until they pick first in the draft next year.

No team is moving to London. It won't happen. Too many logistical problems, and honestly I don't see a long term interest in the UK for American Football.

I do think that a team will eventually move to Los Angeles, but the most likely candidates are either the Rams, Chargers, or Raiders, or some combination of the 2 of those 3. Interestingly enough all three played in Los Angeles at one time or another. And all three have stadium issues that the NFL deems unacceptable. (Even though the Rams' stadium is less than 20 years old. Go figure.)

[eissa]

44. And you're facing Manning this Sunday

In the name of the Father, the Son, the Holy Spirit.....*does sign of the cross over dead body*

[NightWatcher]

51. 28 point spread as of yesterday

I'm crazy but Id take that action

[zappaman]

57. You would take Denver or Jax?

I'm staying away from that game, but would have to pick Denver.
Score could easily be 42-7

[NightWatcher]

70. I'd take Jax and 28 points

You just never know and 28 is a huge spread

[Lurker Deluxe]

100. I'd take it as well ...

Not college ball, if Denver is up by 30 at half I could easily see them pulling Manning and a couple of others and just letting the punt return team get alot of work in. Will Trindon back there though they could still rack points.

Just don't see them running up the score.

Mercy may very well beat the spread.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

129. Peyton Manning's only as good as his neck.

I know that's harsh, but sadly it's the truth.

One hit and Peyton's career season could be cut short very quickly.

[eissa]

131. Well, since I'm against him on Fantasy this week.....

No, no, I can't say it, it's just too mean He has been playing amazing, though. I honestly thought his best days were behind him, like Brady. If he stays healthy, they could go all the way this year. I don't see any other AFC team even having a shot against them.

[Jamaal510]

203. PM has basically been Denver's entire team.

Interesting to see what they'll do for a QB once he flies the coop, considering that he's 37.

[Capt. Obvious]

46. They'll be playing their home games in London soon

Bring back the Monarchs!

[Upton]

60. They're only 28 point underdogs to the Broncos this weekend..

which I believe matches the highest spread in NFL history.

[Drunken Irishman]

49. I like college football better.

[Upton]

71. Well..the same handwringers who don't think much of the NFL..

want to get rid of college football too. Most of these folks just don't like sports.

[Jamaal510]

204. Either that

or they might actually like sports, but are mad because their teams suck.

[datasuspect]

50. never my bag

not too good at being a spectator. never have been.

[Bennyboy]

52. everyone needs to watch this.... League Of Denial

y'all might want to ck out League of Denial......watched it last night....wow...an eye opener....45 out of 46 brains had signs of this...and mostly linemen....???....don't want to spoil it for you...so i will not say anymore...

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/

[Junkdrawer]

67. ^^^ THIS ^^^

Watching a game is one thing, watching people destroy their lives is just gruesome.

[Warpy]

54. This is just like the 20s and 30s when the Hollywood big studios ran the town

and any actor who got tanked at a debauch and committed a list of felonies on the way home got his legal liabilities settled out of court and the whole thing kept out of the news. Everything was forgiven if you generated the big bucks for studio moguls.

Now the actors and actresses are getting busted and the protection has been shifted to football players, from high school through pro sports. Everything is hushed up with hush money paid to the more vocal victims of rape, battery, and property destruction. Things are kept out of the paper lest they damage the team brand.

It's gone well past the disgusting stage through the insane stage and into a place where it's enough of a culture that it needs to be crushed.

Sociopath? Poor? Then pro sports are for you!

[HappyMe]

79. Interesting choice of words -

"....enough of a culture that it needs to be crushed.

You would probably get a personal foul and maybe unsportsmanlike conduct for "crushed".

If all of that is kept out of the papers, how the hell do you know that goes on.

Sociopath? Demand that a decent segment of the population be crushed.

[Dawson Leery]

119. Football promotes a primative ideal of mascualinity.

The sport is vile and we would be better off if it disappeared.
In high school, I saw the football thugs get away with almost everything.

[Ganja Ninja]

61. I am a former long suffering Detroit Lion and current Tampa Bay Bucs Fan.

What do you think?

[zappaman]

64. WTF happened to Freeman?

I thought he was the real deal?

[think]

106. We'll see

[Ganja Ninja]

143. He'll be OK. n/t

[Ganja Ninja]

141. Put yourself in his place.

He played 4 years here. He had alternating good and bad years but the bad wasn't necessarily his fault. Last year he set the franchise record for passing yardage and passing TD's.
So he expected the Bucs to give him a new contract but instead they told him to pay out his contract and we'll see. Then they introduced him to their new 3rd round draft pick. They gave the rookie most of the practice reps in camp and preseason. The coach started running his gums even before OTA's. He (and likely his agent) saw the hand writing on the wall and did what he needed to. I don't blame him. I blame the coach.

[FarCenter]

63. Attendance is down since 2007

But part of that is attributed to high-def, large screen TVs making the at home viewing experience better.

[LeftyMom]

66. I'll be in section 3 on Sunday.

It's not exactly breaking news that Aldon Smith is a jackass.

[Capt. Obvious]

78. I'll be in 201

[eissa]

93. We're going in December

to watch our Niners beat the Rams (again!) and bid farewell to Candlestick

[MineralMan]

72. I live in Minnesota, where we don't really have an NFL team.

There's a group of players here who masquerade as an NFL team, but it's all a sham.

Maybe when they get their taxpayer-funded new stadium they'll pretend better, but I have my doubts.

[legcramp]

125. But I thought it was being paid for with "electronic pulltabs".

eom

[MineralMan]

130. Nah. That trick didn't work.

They put some of it on the backs of smokers, and the rest is still up in the air. But, the stadium will be built, and we get to pay for half of it. Yippee!

I am opposed to the use of taxpayer money to build any facilities for for-profit companies. Period. Those who pay are usually those who cannot even afford to attend events at those facilities. No, thanks.

[legcramp]

145. I thought that Gov Dayton, a progressiive DFL'er, was behind the push for the

new Taj MaWilf and had it all figured out how to ease the taxpayer burden.

Hell, his family could pay cash to build the damn thing and rent it back to the football team for that matter. (Unless maybe it's not that good of an investment)

[MineralMan]

148. That was a big disappointment for me.

He apparently fell for the "economic boost" argument and put the cost on all of us. It's one area where I am in strong disagreement with him. As for his money, I doubt he has the money to do what you suggest. He doesn't seem that well-heeled, frankly, despite the family name.

[reflection]

76. Man, my team hasn't won a game this year and I'm still invested in it. n/t

[onethatcares]

139. did you

get suckered into the charter seat deposit program?

Oooooooouuuuuuuccccccchhhhhhh.

[reflection]

151. Nah, I come from a non-NFL city

I latched onto the Steelers when I was growing up in the 70s. Now my state has the Titans, but I haven't switched allegiances.

[onethatcares]

160. tampa bay had that cute little gizmo

put up the money to buy 10 years of season ticket seats and after 5 years they would send you 20% back until 10 years elapsed and you recouped your dinero.

Sadly, the bucs were good for only the year they needed money for a new stadium.

A lot of people lost out on that one.

[SoCalDem]

85. We were "done" with MOST professional sports a long time ago

They have all evolved into an monstrosity.. Too much money, too much hype.. too much of everything..

[jakeXT]

86. I was watching frontline recently, and they mentioned even injuries to the brain from a normal game

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/league-of-denial/

[Junkdrawer]

90. seeing brain deterioration in HS and college now...

seems hitting your head hard, over and over again is a bad idea...

Who knew?

[Sissyk]

89. I love to watch football.

College and Pro.

As with any career or sports, you have good and bad.

I don't think the bad outweighs the good.

[Orsino]

95. I was never really a fan, but Vick's return switched me to active disliking. n/t

[liberal_at_heart]

99. The Seahawks are looking fantastic this year.

[eissa]

109. I know as a bleeding-heart liberal I shouldn't say this, but

I want to slap that Richard Sherman

[liberal_at_heart]

144. He does have a big mouth. I usually don't watch it when he gives interviews.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

103. Sorry, I can't. I'm a Ravens fan.

Actually, to be more specific, a defending Super Bowl champion Baltimore Ravens fan. And I've just got to revel in all that. Joey Flacco is awesome, I don't care what anyone else says.

Saw my first game live last week. Not something I could necessarily afford on a weekly basis, but it was a lot of fun.

Although I still prefer baseball. Football is a definite second place, but baseball is such a unique and intricate sport that it is unparalleled for me.

[eissa]

105. Hey, thanks for Boldin

[Tommy_Carcetti]

110. You're welcome.

Thanks for laying down on 1st-4th and goal.

[eissa]

111. LOL! Ok, I had that coming :-) eom

[Tommy_Carcetti]

112. Tis okay.

How about that Coach Harbaugh?

[eissa]

115. Which one?!

Yeah, ours is pretty "intense" (the preferred adjective over downright crazy!) I do get a kick out of him, though. That youth football commercial has me laughing every time.

And I agree that your Flacco (aka, Bert) is pretty amazing. Although Ray Lewis gets on my last nerve

[Tommy_Carcetti]

117. Exactly. :)

Well I think your 49ers are returning to form, for what it's worth. AB was a great pickup for you. And you've got a pretty talented QB in Kaepernick yourself.

[yuiyoshida]

122. My Dad took me to Raider Games at the Age of 3

Had Season tickets for years. But recently I only get to watch them on the internet...I still loved going out the Oakland Coliseum and Raider fans are HELLA fun!

[BlueCheese]

163. Stop putting your stands right on top of the outfield!

We have playoffs to play!

[yuiyoshida]

168. Good luck with that...

Last week, they talked about How it took the grounds crew an hour before the game to get the field Ready for Football. The Pitcher's mound was removed and replaced with fresh grass... It obviously worked, because Terrelle Pryor could SMELL THE ROSES, as he threw several touch down passes against the San Diego Chargers!

[ChairmanAgnostic]

104. Obviously you did not watch Frontline a few days ago.

It might change your view of pro football.

[ScreamingMeemie]

132. If I stopped watching/enjoying/doing things because of bad people...

I'd be sitting here right now...twiddling my thumbs.

So...no. Born in Wisconsin-diehard Packer fan. Perhaps you should write a letter to your owner/start a movement within the fanbase to rail against keeping/signing players with this history. To me, it's odd that some teams have this problem more than others and that speaks to ownership.

What does bother me about the NFL? The commercialization with the "pink" campaign. As I watch my childhood best friend through hospice with stage IV ovarian cancer that could have/should have been diagnosed when she first went to the doctor, I realize not many people realize the ribbon for this campaign is teal...no one cares because those silly pink lines and pink flags are so freaking neat. Yes, I think the NFL should be done with the pink campaign. It has ceased to have any impact.

[ElboRuum]

153. If you stopped watching/enjoying/doing things because of bad people...

...you would be the OP. In fact, I believe the litmus test for liberality on DU, but I guess in the larger realm as well, is cultural austerity. A deep dissatisfaction with all things 'Murkin and a sense of aloof pride in rejecting these things. Conflating all sorts of social ills with a sport. Maybe someone soon will make a thread associating violent video games with violence in general, I mean, we can't have QUITE enough of those can we? I mean, GTA V just came out so I think we're about due for that one as well.

[ScreamingMeemie]

170. Yup, says the girl who has never drank any beer more refined

than Honey Brown.

I am not ashamed of being a (sometimes) rabid football fan. I am not an abuser for driving my son to football practice. I don't want to wrap the world up in bubble tape.

(also, the online GTAV rollout has been just as fraught with issues as ACA--my son was only able to get in once so far)

[pansypoo53219]

137. i am a-ok w/ radical changes. back to leather helmets and less padding. RUGBY??

WEIGHT LIMITS + flag football.

[calimary]

147. I never was into it in the first place.

Little more than organized brutality if you ask me. And I keep thinking about all the teachers and scientists and researchers who are getting SQUAT for pay, while these brutes are showered with glory, privilege, and admiration, and get paid king's ransoms - for running around and knocking people down. THAT is something to be admired - and rewarded? My apologies to all the sports fans here, but I just never could figure that one out.

[The2ndWheel]

156. People pay to watch them do it

And it can be a dangerous job, as has been pointed out with comments about brutality. Risk + eyeballs = money. Plus, it's private money.

Are teachers more important? Of course they are. Public school teachers get paid public money though, which will more likely than not be lower.

NFL players can lose their job at the drop of a hat, for nothing more than "Oh, you can't run as fast as you used to? Bye". It's not a long term career.

[PeteSelman]

149. Because they are ruining the game by taking out the defense, yes.

It's like a Madden game out there now. You can't hit anyone, you can't touch the QBs at all, you can't defend passes, the running backs can't even run anyone over anymore. No crackbacks, no wedges, "halos" around returners, it's awful. 90% of the hall of famers couldn't play in today's wussified game.

Yeah, I'm kind of getting over it .

[ElboRuum]

150. Nope.

Sorry, but not everything conflates with everything else.

No points there.

[ZombieHorde]

152. I think football should be removed from schools, including universities.

I think the fact that we support strong safety guidelines in all jobs but sports is telling. If there was a way to make any other job safer, most liberals would support it.

[Bennyboy]

155. Pre teen football=Child abuse thread from way back....

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=105x9508337

Wonder how people think about it now?

[HappyMe]

161. It's not child abuse.

That kind of craps all over children that are starved, beaten, raped and verbally abused.

[zappaman]

164. +100!

Rifuckingdiculous.

[Bennyboy]

178. abuse is abuse my friend...... semantics aside....

Doesn't that describe what happens in sports? in Football they are overfed to unhealthly levels, brow beaten (I've been a jock, you know), tortured (initiation rites, Rush's etc) and verbally abused. (See Ditka, Mike).

Semantics aside, it abuse to put your child in a situation that is WITHOUT A DOUBT dangerous to them, not only in the present but also in the long term

My dad abused me but he didn't let us play football (thanks Mom) and he had serious problems related to his football career not limited to dementia, strokes, back pain etc. Was sad to see how he broke down and he always blamed football for his maladies. of course that was his glory too....

[HappyMe]

187. No, it does not describe what happens in sports.

A parent, whom the child loves and trusts is doing the abuse.

If a gymnastics coach, baseball coach or football coach is abusing them, it's up to the parent to remove the child from that environment.
It is NOT ABUSE to let the kid play a sport.

Look, we are never going to agree. Good luck with your crusade.

[BlueCheese]

157. The injuries have driven me away.

The rash of players getting involved in serious crimes hurts too, but at least those are a minority of the players.

But mostly, it's hard watching when it seems like only a matter of time before any player you like is seriously hurt. I have no idea how some players lasted as long as they did. Emmitt Smith, for example-- running backs seem to have a shelf life about 10 weeks in today's NFL, yet he rolled on for seemingly forever.

[BainsBane]

162. What's I'm really over is paying for new stadiums

[Jamaal510]

205. ^^^This^^^

[Corruption Inc]

174. Gave up on it years ago, it's pure commercialism, no sport remains

It's fun to play touch football or other non-contact sports but the pros and colleges only care about money, human life is way down on their lists. Most of the players are fully aware of it too and don't care, they're for-hire thugs. The NBA is the only pro sport that has any sport remaining in it and it's getting worse every year too as most games are unaffordable now and not televised on anything other than pay TV.

Profiteers can kiss my ass.

[quinnox]

175. Fuck the NFL, I gave it up a long time ago

I used to follow it closely and would even bet on the games. But I got tired of it.

[Buns_of_Fire]

182. I haven't really paid much attention since the Jim Kiick/Larry Csonka/Mercury Morris days

of the Miami Dolphins (yes, I'm that old). After I moved to Atlanta, I rooted for the Falcons, but the greed and incompetence of the Smith family (the owners at the time) soon doused my interest there. I think the final nail was when the Colts moved out of Baltimore in the middle of the night, screwing over the city and all their fans.

I'm too slow for soccer, never had the patience for basketball, never really cared much for baseball, couldn't figure out where the blue line was in hockey, knew I'd be squashed squishy playing rugby, and golf was only slightly more exciting than watching grass grow. By American standards, I'm a dismal failure.

[NuclearDem]

184. Watching grown men run around and give each other TBIs and cheer because they "represent" your city?

Yeah, I'll pass. If you want to cheer for sports that represent your city, support MLB or the NBA.

[we can do it]

190. Been over it. The Browns have been trotting out rapist Jim Brown for decades.

[BKH70041]

191. I'd prefer Rollerball

But only with James Caan as the Great Jonathan E.

[tabasco]

193. Stupid ass penalties to protect QBs and favor the passing game

did it for me.

[Lizzie Poppet]

197. Never been into it.

I'm a nut for the other kind of football...the kind played with, you know...feet.

[North Carolina Knigh]

198. NFL

The only reason I follow nfl football is for fantasy football. College football is a much better game.

[Go Vols]

202. The NFL and NCAAF

is my stock market.

I gained 2k today.

[cristianmarie533]

206. I've never understood the appeal of American Football in general

It's simply too overtly macho for my taste. And I don't really care for that sport's association with jocks. But that's just me.

[Shankapotomus]

209. Competitive sports is close to brainwashing, imo

But I like what Noam Chomsky says about it being propaganda and a distraction.

[Orrex]

210. I like how you say you're over the NFL and then refer to "your team"

However, even if you put an NFL player's gun to my head, I wouldn't be able to name five current players in the entire league, so I'm not exactly an expert on the subject.