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[lostincalifornia]

This message was self-deleted by its author (lostincalifornia) on Sun Aug 3, 2014, 08:00 PM. When the original post in a discussion thread is self-deleted, the entire discussion thread is automatically locked so new replies cannot be posted.

[Rex]

1. I hate to say this, but

never use "I hate to say this'" in a title.

[CJCRANE]

2. "I hate to say this" is the new equivalent of "honest question". nt

[Phentex]

12. very good point

if you hate to say it, you probably shouldn't!

[Ian David]

65. Is that like starting with, "I'm not racist, but..." ? n/t

[Rex]

67. I think so. Or, "to tell you the truth..."

as in so the rest of what you said was all one big lie?

[Ghost in the Machine]

134. Can you please point out where, *exactly*, the words "I hate to say this" appear in this title, or

even in the whole body of the post? I must be going blind..

Thanks in advance,

Ghost

[Rex]

137. It was in the original thread that started this thread, I know sounds complex.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023829312

Check out this thread if you want to know what THIS thread is all about...sorry.

[Ghost in the Machine]

163. I see now... thank you, Rex...

Someone making over $90,000/year *should* be able to provide basic care for their kids. I worked one construction job for seven years, making between $1,500 - $2,000/week, but didn't have insurance. I was lucky that my kids were very healthy, and I paid cash if they had to go to the doctor.

I was disabled in a work related accident 10 years ago, and now I make less in a month than I did in a week. I used to HATE seeing the deductions they took every week for FICA, Social Security and Medicare, but now I'm glad they did. If anyone *ever* wants to piss me off, come tell me my disability payments are an "entitlement". I worked my ass off, paid into SS & Medicare, and they can kiss my ass if they think I'm getting an "entitlement".

Peace to you and yours,

Ghost

[Rex]

173. Very welcome. I have VA to fall back on, but will be looking into

the exchange in a few weeks. I agree, telling me those are entitlements and a privilege are fighting words! We EARNED that money through our blood sweat and tears!

[bunnies]

3. Youve never seen how threads like this go, huh?

[Agschmid]

10. Right...?

[stevenleser]

4. Post the information we need to evaluate the claim. You can see that info here...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023830690

If you dont post these four pieces of information, any claim you post about the ACA is worthless.

[morningfog]

182. That is kind of creepy, Steve.

[stevenleser]

191. Oh please, spare me the faux drama. Virtually no one uses their real names here.

The entire point of a handle is that no one can attribute the information you post to the real you.

[CaliforniaPeggy]

5. You need a thick skin to post in any online community these days.

I am sorry your experience has hurt you.

You might want to put on ignore any of the posters who seem to come after you; that can really help.

Or take a break...

I hope you will stay. There are many good folks here...

[sabrina 1]

22. Good advice, CaliforniaPeggy.

Best for people who are having problems with their HC issues go elsewhere for advice. I see a lot of issues with this program, not the least of which is the complexity of it. So many older people are totally confused but it is best imo, that they not go to partisan forums to try to sort it all out. That's too bad because Democrats at least should be willing to HELP people, especially on an issue as important as this.

[VanillaRhapsody]

85. Of course you do....why am I not surprised by that statement?

WE ARE helping....by providing the truth. They will continue with this bullhockey repeatedly without provide all necessary information...as a disinformation campaign....

By the way...if you are not going on the exchanges...you are not under Obamacares. That's the first clue....

[sabrina 1]

172. Do I know you? You just demonstrated the point being made here

So thanks for that I guess.

As I said, people who are confused, and there are many of them, are better off going where they are likely to be treated with respect and kindness.

[VanillaRhapsody]

174. they are not coming asking for help...they come with their hair on fire....demanding we recognize

the "failure that is Obamacares".....

[LittleBlue]

143. Agreed. The way people jump down the throat of others

is way off base. People are now posting their personal information online and still are getting attacked.

Like you said, best to go to a nonpartisan forum for this. Apparently this one cannot handle it.

[VanillaRhapsody]

175. Its "brought" with an air of superiority...."SEE I told you so..."

why does that warrant respect?

ie: "I hate to tell you...but..." (apparently your support for Obamacares is misplaced)

[mzmolly]

188. This forum wants proof of claims,

before engaging in appropriate pity.

[Mika]

6. Welcome to the new and improved DU.

Its not the DU of yesteryear.

[CJCRANE]

14. DU was like this when I joined back in '02.

DUers were very harsh to newbies who they thought were trying to pull a fast one.

I was stunned at first but after a while I got used to it especially as many times their instincts were right.

[Rex]

19. I agree.

Been like this since DU1.

[MoonRiver]

207. Yep, I've been run off a few times.

Always came back though. There's just something about DU!

[notadmblnd]

56. +1000

[calimary]

92. Could also be because some of us longtimers have seen an awful lot of manipulation by

astroturf. It does tend to make one a bit less trusting.

[redqueen]

123. Yep, seemed like standard DU snark to me.

I didn't read the whole thing, but most of the snark seemed to be aimed at the post as opposed to the poster... which is always the best kind of snark. I lol'd more than once.

[meadowlark5]

125. I'm still relatively new - mostly read and not post a lot

But I remember one of my first posts during the 2012 election, I posted a question on something that was concerning me and I was immediately called a concern troll It wasn't a horrible dog piling on me but I was under suspicion because of my low post count and newness.

I understand the suspicion since this is an open board and anyone can join and that goes for trolls as well. This place needs a troll smilie. I'm surprised there isn't one.

[pamela]

186. Wow, I love that troll smilie.

A belated welcome to DU.

[Skip Intro]

176. Not the way I remember it.

Last edited Sat Oct 12, 2013, 03:46 PM - Edit history (1)

DU was very welcoming to newbies, which we all were once, when I joined in 02.

DU was much more allowing of different opinions; much more focused on exchange of knowledge and ideas, rather than some now who demand lockstep groupthink and attack those who don't comply.

DU is a much less welcoming place for newbies now, imho.

[sabrina 1]

183. That's how I remember it also. Newbies were welcomed and not attacked

until they showed some reason for it.

The demand for groupthink is a total turnoff, something we used to ridicule the right for.

Not going to happen though, no matter how much some try to round up everyone and demand some kind of loyalty oaths. My first loyalty is to those I care about and the people in general, that is why I am a Democrat. But it doesn't mean I am going to remain silent when Dems don't act in the best interests of the people. And that is pretty much true of every rational person.

[CJCRANE]

194. There are 1000s of DUers: some are welcoming, some aloof, some aggressive.

So we're both right.

And just look at this thread: some replies are sympathetic, some cynical and some hostile.

Same as it ever was.

One of my main impressions of early DU was of MoPaul's over the top profanity-laced rants. They shocked me at first but I came to understand where he was coming from. There were also posts about "milquetoast Democrats", so it's always been a place were some criticize Dems, some criticize Repubs and some criticize both.

[Mojorabbit]

211. Well said. nt

[ScreamingMeemie]

7. You are being disingenuous... I called your friend, not you, a liar.

And yes, he is lying to you. Because his circumstances are identical to mine.

It is a place to gain solace from right wing craziness when one is forthright and willing to see things from all sides. I know he's your friend, but he's taking you for a ride. One you appear to be willing to take. I can't help that, but you also can't force me to believe something that just isn't true.


Good luck in your travels.

[Turbineguy]

8. Things get a little testy around here sometimes

and this period is one of those times. And there have been a lot of troll posts about the ACA. Sometimes your patience is needed.

[IdaBriggs]

9. It is a message board. Sometimes hot button topics

get people a little testy. Overall everyone is generally polite, and the discussions civil.

I hope you change your mind and stick around.

Welcome to DU.

[Pretzel_Warrior]

11. no one is implying you are a liar. just that you left a lot of information out initially

and the more we heard, the less sympathetic we were because there is NO WAY this "friend" of yours is getting ripped off by ACA. No way.

[Pretzel_Warrior]

13. P.S. what does "lostinCalifornia" username mean?

just curious. It would be the perfect nickname for Republicans because all they do is lose in California these days. BAHAHAHA!! I figured as a good Democrat you'd get a kick out of that one. Trying to lighten the mood.

[B2G]

15. You have to have a thick skin to post here if

you don't subscribe to the herd mentality. Many here don't...but the ones that do can be stinging. I've been on the receiving end enough times to know.

Maybe just lurk for awhile? You'll see you're not the only one...that might help.

[Warren DeMontague]

16. Two things: One) Overwhelmingly, the ACA is improving the lot of low income people re: coverage

Two) The GOP is desperately trying to spread misinformation because they know this thing is going to be popular.

Given those two facts, I'm not sure why you would be surprised by the reaction you've gotten here.

[Fumesucker]

25. No one could have predicted that the SCOTUS and Republican states would screw the poor

So it's not fair at all to blame the stakeholders and architects of the ACA for what happened.

[Warren DeMontague]

32. Absolutely. The red states that are petulantly holding out on medicaid expansion.. it's inexcusable.

One can only hope that the voters in those states will speak up, or move. If the program is popular elsewhere, people will figure it out.

[Fumesucker]

55. I'm a little disappointed in you

Did I really need to put a picture of Condi in that post? I haven't used that term unironically in at least a decade.

[Warren DeMontague]

129. Oh, right. Gotcha.

Sorry, I'm in cheerleader mode. Don't worry, it'll pass.

[Fumesucker]

17. Nope, DU hasn't been a refuge from right wing thought since at least Jan 21, 2009

[seabeyond]

18. but i had just dealt with you telling us we needed to allow repugs a cooling off period cause they

were so angry.... when they should have been doing their fucking job.

and the OP you wrote didnt jive with reality.

i am sorry that cause you to walk du. the reality is, there are a lot of people that say the stuff you do merely to cause problems.

i haev not read other posts from you. but it just happens to be the two i am familiar about.

[whttevrr]

20. Here's the problem...

You have posted a thread about someone else: Hearsay

You have avoided direct questions about the parameters necessary to evaluate the story you are telling: 500 / 700 / 1200 / Income / Family size / age / etc.

As a matter of fact, after being asked any of these questions in an actively participated sub thread your presence instantly goes to another sub thread. The evasiveness and hearsay make the story just that... a story. And the challenge is on everyone to just 'trust' you in your intentions.

As it stands, you are saying in that thread that 1200 / month is less than 8% of 'your friends income'.

1200/.08= $15,000.oo

That's $180k per year.

See any problem in this math?

Is it incredulous?

Sorry to see you go, but hey, there will be others.

[questionseverything]

177. no she said exceeds

In fact he can opt of the mandate under the law, because the premium exceeds 8% of his income, but he cannot have his family without insurance

[lpbk2713]

21. Have you been here long enough to know what a GBCW post is?

[regnaD kciN]

33. "I know a dead parrot when I see one…"

"…and I'm looking at one right now."

[truebluegreen]

90. ...if you hadn't nailed 'em to 'is perch 'e'd be pushin' up the daisies!"

[FloridaJudy]

212. 'E's pinin' for the fjords

Norwegian Blues do that.

[handmade34]

23. we need information...

most people's experience is that the ACA is a very good thing and we support it... if you have another story, it is important to provide substantial proof that we can discuss...

"...a forum that is supposed to represent progressive and liberal thoughts..." is one that usually deals in facts and real data...

I am dismayed that anyone here would call you a liar or use venomous verbiage, but you must understand that this is *Democratic Underground* and your post merely stated a third party story with no real information

Don't go away... just understand what we are about...

[geek tragedy]

24. I hate to say this, but a friend told me

that he's not sorry to see you go.

[Rex]

63. .

[BlueCaliDem]

105. ...

[Scurrilous]

200. LOL

The internets can be a harsh mistress.

[Lex]

26. We get a lot of trolls spewing incorrect information here.

So if something smells off about a new-ish poster's post, people are are going to be suspicious.

[SidDithers]

27. You've been here 2 weeks...

And are accusing Obama of 4 years of caving to Republicans.

You're going to get the reception you deserve.

Sid

[NoGOPZone]

28. Consider yourself lucky

my posts just put people to sleep

[whttevrr]

31. I know, right...?

My posts rarely get more than a few responses and a perfunctory rec or two...

DU hates me...

[moriah]

130. I know I'm being entirely too reasonable when I get no replies.

It's a good feeling.

[Lancero]

29. For all our saying that we are better people...

We really aren't.

Most of the people here don't think for themselves - Like Republicans, they tote the party line at all costs.

We've yet to fall as far as Republicans have, but a lot here are trying to make us fall.

Like they are blinded by their hatred of Obamacare, and their refusal to see the good in it, so are we blinded by our love of Obamacare, and our refusal to see the bad.

[bunnies]

35. Oh, looky. Another one DU Bashing.

Seems to be a pretty fun hobby with newbies lately. Oh and by the way... speak for yourself.

[regnaD kciN]

38. And ANOTHER low-count poster -- what a surprise…

[Lancero]

40. Thank you...

For proving my point.

[Rex]

45. Blinded by our love of Obamacare?

[eShirl]

52. I know, dead giveaway

[Rex]

59. I guess it is a good thing we have the ACA!

I wonder if 'blinded by love' of a policy is a pre-existing condition? Oh wait...no more pre-existing conditions!

WAY TO GO OBAMA!

[Pretzel_Warrior]

48. bahaha. I love it when REPUBES are losing. The trolls activate.

and disrupt poorly. An automated program could do better job of screwing with us than you do.

[Lancero]

62. And your definition of troll is?

I'm willing to bet that your definition of troll is "Someone who doesn't agree with me 100% of the time."

I'm a human being. I have opinions. Sometimes they are different then the opinions of another. Get over it.

[eShirl]

49. Who is this "we" you speak of?

[Rex]

60. Mouse in pocket?

[Lancero]

64. The majority of people in this thread.

Those that would rather throw insults around when someone expresses concerns about policy.

Those that would rather throw insults around then actually listen to a person listing of their concerns.

Those that would rather throw insults around then actually take the time to listen to a persons concerns.

I could add a couple more groups if I wished, but these three describe the majority.

[whttevrr]

66. What about the...

Math?

(12*1200)/.08 = 180,000?

[Lancero]

71. And this justifies...

The hatred and insults how?

This is what I'm looking for - A reason as to why so many here would rather throw insults then take the time to explain things.

[whttevrr]

78. What insults?

I'm just talking math here. Just math, man. No recriminations beyond logical fallacy. Math.

Do you now dispute that the example mentioned was making $180,000.oo or more per year?

[Rex]

81. Selective reading skills.

nt.

[Lancero]

83. Same to you n/t

[Rex]

87. No I actually asked if the OP lived in a red state.

I did not get all insulting, like you have been.

[Lancero]

93. Care to point out

Where I insulted a specific member?

[Rex]

97. You came in here swinging at everyone that called out the OP

for starting a new OP, after being shown bogus numbers. You are insulting everyone that knows what is going on, just you seem not to know because you have no idea what this thread is about.

Gotcha...thanks.

[Lancero]

101. Still can't point out where, specifically, I insulted a member.

Still waiting.

[Rex]

103. Like you, I could care less.

Strange and here I thought you were all caring about others and stuff.

[Lancero]

109. Still waiting for you to point out where I insulted a member.

Care less, used in the way I used it, means that I don't care what people think of me.

[Rex]

110. Sure it does, keep it up.

nt.

[Lancero]

114. Care to, finally, point out where I insulted a member?

If I've insulted a member, feel free to point it out. I don't see where I did, and given your multiple refusals to point out such a statement, I really doubt that I did.

[Rex]

117. As long as you doubt that you did.

You insulted yourself.

[Lancero]

121. Myself?

And you are up in arms over this why?

If I insulted myself, so what?

[Rex]

122. Because you should be nice to yourself, did you forget your own premise?

nt.

[Lancero]

124. I still don't see where I insulted anyone, or even myself.

Since you care so much, care to point it out?

[Rex]

126. You said I am a bad, evil, care-less person, so no.

I don't care anymore.

[Lancero]

131. Context much?

I'll explain it to you, in more detail then.

The post was, essentially, saying that even though people may not agree with my actions, I will still do them because they are - In accordance with my morals - the right thing to do. Even if people disagree with my actions, I don't care what they think of me, because the actions are what I believe to be correct.

Essentially, the right thing versus the easy thing. The easy thing would be to join in on the bashfest against this person. The right thing to do would be to try and defend the person, faults and all.

[questionseverything]

178. you have the math wrong

what she said was...In fact he can opt of the mandate under the law, because the premium exceeds 8% of his income, but he cannot have his family without insurance

exceeds,we do not know by how much

[Pretzel_Warrior]

68. you and other low-post count boy seem to be working well together

almost as one.

[Rex]

75. Also what about the facts presented to the OP that debunk their narrative?

Guess some here have selective reading skills and some don't.

[Lancero]

76. Thanks...

For proving my point.

[Rex]

77. You keep saying that, yet seem to not know what that saying means.

Thanks for proving my point too!

[Lancero]

80. Must I explain?

My statement is that people are throwing around insults.

He responds with a insult.

Thus, proving my point.

[Rex]

84. Yet you still do not acknowledge that the OP posted bogus information

why is that? People have pointed it out in the original thread over and over and here as well.

[Lancero]

88. I'm not taking into account other threads...

Just this one, as it is the one I am responding to.

[Rex]

91. Oh so you don't have any idea what this is all about.

Just walked into this thread and started swinging? Gotcha...thanks.

[Lancero]

96. Does a person need a reason...

To step in and defend a person when other's see it fit to gang up on them?

I see a group of people attacking someone, I could care less what the person's sins were. I'd still defend the person, because it's the right thing to do. If I look the villain for doing so, I could care less.

[Rex]

100. Well if you want to be like the GOP and be clueless what is going

on and then chime in anyway - be my guest. I could care less too.

[Lancero]

104. I know enough.

Person made a mistake, you've taken it upon yourselves to skewer him over it.

Still though, resulting to insults so quickly? My point is proven, yet again.

[Rex]

106. You seem totally clueless and now you don't care at all.

Gotcha...thanks.

[Lancero]

112. See above.

How I used care less means that I don't care what people think of me.

[Rex]

113. If you say so, I personally doubt it.

nt.

[FLyellowdog]

135. Pot, meet kettle. nt

[Lancero]

136. Already went through this with Rex...

But perhaps you would be willing to point to where I insulted a specific member?

[FLyellowdog]

139. Two children, arguing for the sake of arguing.

There are so many ways to enhance this life's experience. Why would someone waste their energy going back and forth in a continued disagreement that is really of no importance?

DU is about differences of opinions, of course, but taking up space simply because you can is kind of silly. "Mom, he looked at me!" "Mom, he's touching me!" Blah, blah, blah.

If you want to stay here, expect to be taken to task. It's part of the game.

[Lancero]

140. If someone says I did something...

Then they should at least point to something to prove it.

If you believe I insulted a specific member, feel free to point out the post. This is why we had a back of forth - He made a accusation, I asked for proof, he refused to provide proof and then made the accusation again.

[Rex]

142. If you can answer #73, then I will tell you.

If not, then have a great day.

[Lancero]

145. ...

Eerily similar to the Republicans 'strategy' with the shutdown.

[Rex]

148. So that is a no.

Just what I thought.

[Lancero]

150. I say again...

Eerily similar.

I'll negotiate with you though. I'm nice like that. My terms are simple.

Either back up your claims, or withdraw them.

[Rex]

151. Of course you do, you have nothing left in the tank.

I like the fact that you won't answer #73. It proves you have a narrative you must keep going at all costs.

[Lancero]

153. I've plenty left in the tank.

I like the fact that you won't provide proof for your claims. It proves that your claims are false.

[Rex]

154. Nothing left eh? You are running on fumes.

Keep up the narrative!

[Lancero]

158. What narriative?

All I'm asking is that you back up the claims you are making.

Your call - Do you want to finally back up the claim you've been making, or will you admit that your claims are but lies?

Really, given your refusal to provide proof for these claims, this is the only reasonable explanation. That you are lying about them.

[Rex]

161. And all I am asking is that you answer #73.

Which you cannot do, it would change your narrative to something you would have to defend and we all know you have no compunction to do so!

Have fun chasing your tail, you seem to be very good at it.

[Rex]

159. So you thought a third child was needed in this fight?

Well that taught us!

[Rex]

73. Why would you ignore post after post asking why said OP

will not read fact after fact posted by others that debunk his claims? That part just goes right over your head? Selective reading skills? Doesn't fit the narrative? Why?

[TeamPooka]

181. Straw man alert---- so leave DU if it bothers u so much

No one is forcing you to be here unless it's paying your bills somehowif u know what I mean

[DevonRex]

53. We're simply able to do the math. A young man making more than $150,000 can pay

his $1200 premium for his young family. And damn well should know he was wasting $500 a month for nothing before ACA. And he should be pissed off at his employer for being dishonest.

[truebluegreen]

94. Btw, that's "toe" the party line...

[MADem]

118. Who's we? Do you have a squirrel in your pocket?

I think "we" Democrats are doing a better job than Republicans in trying to solve the problem of uninsured Americans. Some may want single payer, but that's not going to happen.....YET.

It might one day, though, and if it does, it won't be the GOP providing the coverage.

[Squinch]

120. .

[noiretextatique]

169. funny how you just joined and keep talking about "we"

which makes me think you aren't a part of "we" at all especially with your false equivalents.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=3826060

[seabeyond]

206. see lost... this would be the newbie post everyone jumps on, just like this. dont feel bad, lost.

[Southside]

30. I have not read your ACA threads

I would like to point out your earlier post from Thursday where you wrote:

"Watching Rachel Maddow and a commercial came on slamming Democrats and the President, how they are forcing people into "Obamacare", and to call 1-800-575-XXXX to "sign a petition"

I deleted the last 4 numbers to call, but you did not. As a newbie it is strange to see that DU allows contact information to bash ObamaCare. That is a little odd, but I only have 100 posts, I just want to fit in.

I will also add that your earlier posts gave no comfort to Republicans. You called them Retags and stuff like that. I hope everything works out for you here. All the best.

[bunnies]

42. Welcome to DU.

Whats odd isnt that the post was allowed to stay, but that a Democrat would post such a thing to begin with. Once we start seeing red flags, like the one you pointed out, its hard to recover. Good catch by the way.

If youre a real Dem/Liberal/Progressive you'll be fine. We all stick our foot in our mouths from time to time.

edit: haha.. "foots"

[Pretzel_Warrior]

51. I second that

[Southside]

70. Thank you for welcoming me.

We should know that DU does not accept that. It bothered me to see that.

Also why would MSNBC allow ads like that during Rachel's show? I support freedom of speech, but if the facts presented by the poster are accurate, I take it as a mild slap to her audience. What is next? Rush Limbaugh advertising: THIS IS WHERE BLACKS DATE WHITES.com (a fictional site I think)

[Pretzel_Warrior]

82. that was a bizarre example

a bit over the top. you think all Rush listeners don't agree with mixed marriages on the grounds that miscegenation should be illegal?

[Southside]

128. It's more about the host controlling content

My example was over the top and I apologize to anyone offended by it. I just think Rush is racist and wouldn't allow an advertisement like that. I don't see Rush having a large black audience to market ads like that to. I also could see a small percentage of his audience being put off by mixed relationships.

But through the years Rush has has attacked black people. I don't ever expect his baritone voicing ads for mixed relationships after these comments:

"They're 12 percent of the population. Who the hell cares?"

"I mean, let's face it, we didn't have slavery in this country for over 100 years because it was a bad thing. Quite the opposite: slavery built the South. I'm not saying we should bring it back; I'm just saying it had its merits. For one thing, the streets were safer after dark."

"Have you ever noticed how all composite pictures of wanted criminals resemble Jesse Jackson?"

"Look, let me put it to you this way: the NFL all too often looks like a game between the Bloods and the Crips without any weapons. There, I said it."

"The NAACP should have riot rehearsal. They should get a liquor store and practice robberies."

"Take that bone out of your nose and call me back (to an African American female caller)."

"I think the media has been very desirous that a black quarterback do well. They’re interested in black coaches and black quarterbacks doing well. I think there’s a little hope invested in McNabb and he got a lot of credit for the performance of his team that he really didn’t deserve."

[bunnies]

99. Does seem like a strange ad for them to run.

Cant say as I understand it, personally. As far as whats allowed, we have a jury system now. So if 3 of the 6 say a post can stand, the post stands. We dont have mods who automatically delete stuff anymore. And sometimes the jury really blows it. Just today I saw a post telling another DUer to shove a question in their ass. Or something to that effect. That shit shouldnt be allowed either, but it was.

So basically 6 random people decide the outcome of every alert (whether a post gets hidden or not). Sometimes its really hard to know whats "acceptable" and what isnt because of that.

[Southside]

133. Oh there is an alert button.

I will use that next time. Thanks again and sorry for the inflammatory response. I do not like Rush Limbaugh, had no intention of insulting his entire audience.

Live and learn

[dixiegrrrrl]

146. There is also a very useful button called "trash thread"

which serves as sort of a "pre-ignore" button.

Since there are so many posters here, from all over the country AND from other countries,
it is a given that a post will occasionally give me heartburn, or worse.
I consider "trash thread" the equivalent to a pilot's ejection seat
with ignore waiting in the background if the same poster seems intent on making DU an uncomfortable place to be.
Works for me.

[Southside]

155. Alert, trash thread, ignore

Got it. Thank you. Well organized sight. The My Post button at the top is sweet, didn't know I was getting replies till I noticed that Yellow button.

Thanks again.

DU, various blogs, Tunein radio and MSNBC, it is nice having a voice.

[bunnies]

164. This is excellent advice.

I see "trash thread" the same way.

[bunnies]

162. Your response was fine by me.

I'd never be upset with someone for insulting dittoheads. I think they're of the most gullible people on the planet. Them and the people who fall for Glenn Becks schtick. They're being played and dont even know it.

If someone got on you for your reply to me, just know that it happens to ALL of us here. We're a pretty diverse and large group of people. We dont always all feel the same way about anything. Just be yourself. K?

[Southside]

179. Will do

I had tough exchange in another thread, at the end of it, my veteran DU adversary made me understand, that here at DU you need to back up your opinions. It felt like a test. Haha. I was worried I had overstepped my bounds, totally not the case.

I love this place. In my world if you don't back up your conclusions, you lose much more than DURecs.

DU develops your talking points, debating skills, toughness and appreciation for new ideas.

Thank you so much Bunnies.

Take care

[truebluegreen]

102. Probably because MSNBC is not Fox News of the left,

no matter how often they claim it is.

[Trekologer]

187. Nothing wrong with including the last 4 numbers

Just remind everyone here...

Please make sure you don't call the number because it costs those astroturfers to handle the calls.

Please make sure you don't call the number over and over again.

And, if you have access to one, please make sure you don't put it into an autodialer and call on and on and on and on...

[Southside]

189. Haha...ok astroturfer , thanks

Thanks for the clarification, I saw the word astroturfers used before around here, now I have the gist of its meaning. It like you need a forum tutorial just for the verbiage. That is pretty cool in itself.

[Whisp]

34. I hate to say this but someone making 90k+ a year

is way down on my list of worrying about when there are so many that have to work 2+ jobs at min or less than minimum wage and couldn't afford to get sick, go to work sick, send their kids to school sick.... and the illness caused just by that stress alone. Everyday stress when you worry worry worry about accidents, sickness. The burden needed to be relieved! I am looking at how many of the most needy will be helped by ACA.

That was the whole point of it all. Look after each other and that might mean a bit more $ from some.

[whttevrr]

41. 90k is the cut off for subsidy

But somewhere in that thread the OP posted that 1200/month was less than 8% of the 'friend' income...

Am I doing the math wrong in calculating the annual income as being $180K

(12 * 1200)/.08 = 180,000

[Whisp]

44. hey, good abacus you have there!

That whole thread was twisted information from the OP, and now the tears of being mistreated. yah, sure.

[whttevrr]

89. OK, whew...

Cuz the 90k rebuttal seemed way too generous.

It's twice that.

[leeroysphitz]

36. This an internet chat room. Don't take it this seriously.

It's not as if IRL people called you a liar.

[Voice for Peace]

37. There's never a good excuse for meanness, lack of compassion.

Having said that.. many DUers are prickly about ACA
negative posts. Many (including me) feel defensive
of the president's efforts, even if they are imperfect.

There are people actively working to undermine
confidence in the ACA, and many of them come to
DU, to post about their terrible experience, or their
friend's terrible experience. These posts are
naturally suspicious lately -- please don't take it
personally. You will find tons of compassionate
people here, I hope you'll be one of them.

[Zorra]

39. There is a faction here that hates the left, and will swarm in attack

around anyone who says anything that hints that Obama may have possibly made a minor mistake sometime during his lifetime.

In your case, by pointing out that someone was having to pay more because of the ACA, it was taken as a direct threat to Obama by the Third Way swarm.

I've been here over 10 years, and they attacked me ruthlessly because I complained that the RW corporation Experian would not verify my identity, and because I said that a RW wealthy private interest like Experian who has proven to be corrupt in the past should not have been hired by the government to verify my identity.

[whttevrr]

43. I think it was more about the math...

[leftstreet]

47. I'm not sure they 'hate' the left. It's probably fear

As with most belief systems (and politics appears to be religion for some of these people), critical thought and questioning is seen as something to fear, stamp out, smack down immediately

[Pretzel_Warrior]

54. and then there is the opposite case

as you so admirably demonstrate time and again.

[Hippo_Tron]

69. There's an obvious difference between actual criticism from the left and trolling

Yes I have seen threads on DU from legitimate posters on the left who are concerned that the ACA will be disadvantageous to some working class people. Almost none of those posts start with "I have this friend who...". They almost all use statistics to back up what they're saying, rather than anecdotes. And most importantly they almost all contain some variation of the phrase "THIS IS WHY I WANT SINGLE PAYER".

Combine that with the OP having been here for a whole two weeks and I'm sorry, but if it walks like a troll and talks like a troll, it's probably a troll.

[Broward]

95. This post nails it.

[whttevrr]

111. No... it was the math.

Math does not have a liberal bias. It is just... Math.

[truebluegreen]

108. Um, there are swarms here who think Obama is the left?

News to me.

[Squinch]

119. Or could it have been that the poster's friend made 180000 per year, and was having

a problem with a deductible that was less than 8% of his income?

I'm guessing it's not really about hating the left. I'm guessing it's about numbers that don't make sense.

[Ellipsis]

46. Somebody needs a hug.... c'mere you

[Le Taz Hot]

50. Right or wrong,

you need your big boy/girl chonies on when posting here. Hell, if I had a dollar for every name I've been called on DU I'd, well, have a whole lot more money than I have now. So butch up, remember that this is ONLY A MESSAGE BOARD and the "Ignore" feature is your friend.

[CountAllVotes]

61. Boy, that's the truth!!

Your got to grow a pair whether you care to have a pair or not around here! :

"Ignore" feature is your friend.

Good advice there btw!!

[bluestate10]

57. You are posting stuff which flies in the face of truth. I can't get any subsidy under the ACA

or under my state's exchange. But my earnings are such that I don't need the subsidy. Other posters repeatedly attempted to present you with facts about the ACA, but you went on, ignoring facts. Why should anyone appreciate a person who doesn't yield to facts, period?

[ellenrr]

58. Absolutely, I expected same as you...

My approach is to wade thru the bastards, and try to keep my eye on the large number of people who have something worthwhile to say.

I use the ignore function a lot, but it's real hard to keep the plate clear of the idiots, for sure. I am sympathetic to what you say.

I believe that troll-like idiots are attracted to this place, basically they can be as smarmy as they want, and that is what some people look for.

after a while tho you can recognize them and steer clear.

[Rowdyboy]

72. Buh bye....

[luvspeas]

74. I think you need more information about your friend before you decide that they are being screwed...

That was your implication with your post. I think most people asked you legitimate questions about the situation that you could not answer. I think you need to take the advise of many here and not rush to conclusions about the situation. Yes, some on here can be harsh, but I went back and read your post and the comments and most people were being very realistic. I hope you stay and learn from the situation.

[intaglio]

79. And as was pointed out repeatedly

your "friend" has no need to shift to an ACA plan if his current plan is cheaper.

There is also the problem that your claim is remarkably similar to similar unsubstantiated claims - even down to the price you quoted.

[The Midway Rebel]

86. That's nice.

Troll harder next time.

[MADem]

98. What's your point? Why are you starting a new thread All About You?

Are you saying Goodbye, Cruel World or do you just seek additional attention? Wasn't the reception you got in that other thread sufficient for you?

People disagree on this website. I thought your "I hate to say" post stunk up the room, myself, and I wasn't the only one. You can call that "meanness," but it wasn't--your assertions just did not come across as "credible."

Funny how your "friend" is having such trouble, when the vast majority of people are having an entirely opposite experience.

It makes me believe that either your friend isn't doing his calculations properly...or something else.

In any event, I'm sure if you look around the Great Big Internet you'll find a group of people who will welcome your views and not challenge your assertions the way the thoughtful and inquisitive members of DU did.

If this corner of the net doesn't suit you, you will probably be happier moving on.

[Sunlei]

107. send your friend here before you go. Or tell him to go to heathcare.gov or call them.

[Rex]

115. I guess the friend makes 180k a year, but doesn't have a PC or internet.

Must hate the Intertubes.

[Katashi_itto]

116. Hmm looking at your other post, you have a friend making 94k a year

Who has to pay an extra 200 a month.

[gollygee]

127. People are complaining about their rates going up, but then we see they're getting

completely different services. So they're comparing a plan that is only helpful if there's a catastrophe to an actual health plan that will cover problems that come up. Or that they're actually pretty wealthy and people don't want to hear someone with $90k complaining about having to pay for health care when there are people who have gone without healthcare for ages and are finally able to get it thanks to the ACA. Or men who have always been undercharged because they're men shocked and surprised that they're having to pay more since men and women are charged the same now. Yes, they're not getting the benefit of paying a smaller amount for health care because they're men, but women have NEVER had that benefit and the women they're complaining to have been paying more for years or decades.

[questionseverything]

180. 90k is wealthy?

i think you nailed what the disconnect is

since the 90k peop paid more in taxes than many here seem to live on,peops do not seem to realize those people have commitments too....commitments they can not just snap their fingers and make disappear...that was in lost' original post...that nothing was taken into account for mortgages

sure there are a few that post that evidently are way past that income but they seem to have company insurance or will benefit because the aca is lower than their previous plan

and then there is the math guy that transposed what lost wrote about her friends percent of income...and not one person questioned it..except me

700 bucks a month is a huge raise for anyone that actually works for a living...evidently the aca writers realized this as they wrote in the over 8% of income exception

[gollygee]

185. Well

My family is well over $90k and we aren't weathy but we're very comfortable, and people making $90k complaining to everyone else here when the median family income is half that aren't going to get a lot of sympathy. People making half, or less than half, are having a much harder time and have always had a much harder time.

[displacedtexan]

132. Don't go away mad.

[TheKentuckian]

138. Liberal? Progressive? Yeah, right. Most of them aren't much to the left of William F Buckley.

They love drones, the NSA, paddycake with TeaPubliKlan terrorist, austerity, and corporate dominance.

[TorchTheWitch]

141. welcome to DU

Home of the most obnoxious people on earth.

Take what you want out of it and ignore the rest.

[CJCRANE]

147. I dunno...Freeperville is more obnoxious

and I hear that there are sites even worse than that.

[Rex]

157. Kinda a strange thing to say...I agree I would think

FR would be far more obnoxious then our humble site.

[TorchTheWitch]

160. not to their fellow members

They walk in lockstep on everything. Even a hint of disagreement on any matter gets one banned anyway.

And why would a liberal/progressive go there anyway?

DU on the other hand is a 24/7 bash-o-thon to every member even for just the sin of being new further encouraged by a "moderation" system that's a joke and a waste of time.

Having only two insanity forums for Repubs to point to is pretty damn sad.

[CJCRANE]

192. That seems worse to me...

the moment you step out of line - you get banned! That creates a false sense of camaraderie.

Much better to have the rough and tumble of robust debate, even if it means putting up with "obnoxious" people.

[ellenrr]

196. I love robust debate, but stupidity, and trolls... not so much.

there is a middle-ground between the obnoxiousness that Witch referred to and the lock-step mentality. But DU is not the place to find it.

[TorchTheWitch]

198. "rough debate"?

That's what you call it? So, "nanny nanny boo boo, you suck, you're a troll, I'm better than you so whatever I say is right, blah, blah, blah" is what passes for "robust debate" in your world?

No wonder DU sucks so much being full of people with troll paranoia that spend their time making personal swipes at each other and think it's "robust debate".

DU used to have robust debate. That was years and years ago. Now it's nothing more than a piss fest that's thought to be "robust debate".

[CJCRANE]

199. I never make personal swipes at other DUers.

Your reply to me was full of insinuations about me personally.

I made no such insinuations about you or remarks about you or your world.

[TorchTheWitch]

201. baloney

I was CLEARLY talking about DU in general. But you're trying to make a personal fight out of that just makes my point.

[CJCRANE]

203. Your posts represent the very thing you rail against.

They've done nothing but disparage me and other DUers.

"That's what you call it? So, "nanny nanny boo boo, you suck, you're a troll, I'm better than you so whatever I say is right, blah, blah, blah" is what passes for "robust debate" in your world?

No wonder DU sucks so much being full of people with troll paranoia that spend their time making personal swipes at each other and think it's "robust debate".

[ellenrr]

193. +

[DrDan]

144. there are a few here who really dislike having their world view disrupted

take them with a grain of salt. or use your ignore function.

There are many more that are open to freely exchanging ideas. Keep it sane. Keep it polite. You will quickly learn which members to read and which to ignore.

There are some truly intelligent folks here. A lot can be learned.

But . . . don't expect kindness and compassion from everyone. It is a large forum and there are many who can quickly get under your skin.

Welcome. I have been here since 2001 and still come daily.

[1000words]

149. "Ignore" is your friend

Makes this site much more pleasant

[CBGLuthier]

152. waahhh

wahh wahhh weahhh


You sound like the house republicans. waaahhh.

[bluestate10]

156. I live in a high income state. The information I will post doesn't apply to me. I purposely

set a 3 person family that had an annual income of $78,100. WITHOUT a subsidy, the highest deductible, out of pocket plan cost around $500 per month. The highest deductible was $6,350 for a family of three. The maximum out of pocket amount was $12,100.

[melody]

165. My sister Pam died because she didn't have health insurance

She was 63. She had medical insurance her whole life until her Air Force husband died. She had lupus and needed a hip replacement. She was forced to fall back on a public hospital. She contracted sepsis and died.

My old friend Harry was 48. Harry had a congenital heart condition that had never been diagnosed because he was self-employed and had no health insurance. Harry dropped dead.

How expensive is your health insurance again?

[The Midway Rebel]

170. ^This!

Too many people have died already and the ACA saves thousands of lives and ends untold amounts of suffering. I am not sorry if this puts a kink in your lifestyle. From what I have seen so far, this benefits far more many people than it hurts.

[grantcart]

209. Thanks for the perspective and sorry about your sister and friend.

[Roland99]

166. What's this? A callout thread?

..

[Tarheel_Dem]

167. OOO

[Pretzel_Warrior]

168. don't let the door hitya on the way out

[Motown_Johnny]

171. Your post was terrible

No facts presented. You just threw stuff out there and expected .... what? Tears?



Give us numbers and we will try to deal with it.

I honestly don't believe the information you had in that post to be correct. You may not be lying but you sure as hell may have gotten something wrong.

We need information here. If you present none then the fault is yours.

[WorseBeforeBetter]

184. Funny, I've been here since 2004 and to the best of my recollection...

never called a liar. What exactly is it that you're doing?

[LWolf]

190. The site reflects

the party, which is not, as a whole, all that liberal or progressive. It's not about issues, or progressive or liberal ideas, but about party and personality loyalty. When you criticize what some think will be some kind of "legacy" for their chosen one, you're going to get stung.

Whether the criticism is legitimate or not.

[eShirl]

195. Welcome to the internet. n/t

[Caretha]

197. Why don't you tell us

how the Affordable Care Act affects you?

Personally I'm more interested in that than a "mythical friend". Let's just say that this "friend of yours is real, no matter how good of a friend you think you have, you really will never know 1/10 th of the details of their life. Debating the scenario you painted is a fools errand and waste of bandwidth.

So let's just cut the bullshit out and talk about you, and how this law affects you and your immediate family.

Care to try that? If you do not respond to this post, it will tell us all we need to know.

[Iggo]

202. META!!!

[appleannie1]

204. I have been treated less than kindly by some here too. Yet I stuck it out. There are some that

truly accept people, no matter if they don't automatically agree with every word they say. Others are the left version of right wing. I think you will find that sort of thing in any sampling of people. Hang in there.

[glowing]

205. Then u haven't been on long enough OR u r

equating a message board with a sense that everyone is going to embrace your new posts, knocking ACA on the week of rollout without having questions asked about the details of said "friend".

If this friend has healthcare thru an employer, then it's the Company that is dumping shitier plans on the "friend". If the "friend" is making more money than the avg family, then their plan isn't going to be overly subsidized because, catch a clue, they can afford it. If they are in a state that doesn't offer an exchange and have to go thru the Fed Gov, they may not have even gotten thru the process yet because the site has been quite overwhelmed and the official numbers of all who have signed up in Oct will be released in November.

Are ther issues, you bet! What we really need is Medicare For All and do away with the snake oil middlemen making a profit in between... And then have the Gov look into hospitals and drug co's charges and services. Across the board, there are differing rates for the same procedures depending on the hospital or office you end up in. The drug stores sell items at different rates. And the drug co's are wayyy overcharging which makes our system one of the most expensive in the world. So, if u are speaking to creating a better healthcare delivery system and payment choice, then you will get a warm reception. If you come here, and the first things you post are random "friend" suffering due to ACA, which doesn't start until Jan 01, 2014 and people have until March 31, 2013 to figure out if they want to buy into a plan or pay the penalty for not being responsible and making the rest of us pay for their care should they end up in the ER with no insurance, then I could understand with real numbers and situations depending upon the state one lives, that the ACA screwed them over. And at tht time, we may end up getting Dems back in charge and make the fixes that need fixing. It will not happen with the current R's in place because they shut the govt down and are threatening to default on our credit...

Good luck to you.

[Notafraidtoo]

208. Hard to have compassion for..

Someone making 120k - 180k who claims they cant afford health insurance. That person seriously needs to balance their budget better and stop living beyond their means. That income puts them in the top 10% of Americans.

[seattle15]

210. Do you have proof that their rates are going up?

There has been zero evidence made public that would indicate that to be true. If you actually had it, you could make some good money with the mainstream media with their constant biased attacks.