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Segami

(14,923 posts)
Sun Oct 13, 2013, 11:15 AM Oct 2013

Eric Cantor Given Total Control Of House In LATE NIGHT RULE CHANGE By GOP



Uncovered by Maryland Representative Chris Van Hollen

Late in the evening on September 30, 2013, the House Rules Committee Republicans changed the Rules of the House so that the ONLY Member allowed to call up the Senate's clean CR for a vote was Majority Leader Eric Cantor or his designee -- all but guaranteeing the government would shut down a few hours later and would stay shut down. Previously, any Member would have had the right to bring the CR up for a vote. Democracy has been suspended in the House of Representatives.






In the dead of night before the shutdown, the Republicans forced through a rule change, one which effectively handed over control of the government over to one man, Eric Cantor. You see, under the rules of the house, the members of the house had the ability to put the Senate resolution to a vote in the house. Here is the rule, as written:


When the stage of disagreement has been reached on a bill or resolution with House or Senate amendments, a motion to dispose of any amendment shall be privileged.

http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/HMAN-112/pdf/HMAN-112.pdf





New Rules, New Leader In Congress.

However, the rule change pushed through in the dead of night without any oversight or debate instead put the authority to proceed into the hands of the majority leader in the house, Eric Cantor. This is the same Eric Cantor who is known for having gutted anti-corruption and bribery legislation. And now, he runs the show. Even House Speaker John Boehner can not bring it up to a vote. This rule change was uncovered by Maryland Representative Chris Van Hollen, who brought it to the House Floor late last week.




Supreme Overlord Eric Cantor, Emperor Eric Cantor, Or Just King Cantor?

Majority Leader Eric Cantor has usurped the rules and has placed himself as the dictator of Congress. Like a feudal lord, he lords over the house, and without the House, the Senate cannot pass the laws needed to run this country. Our new Nero playing his fiddle, King Eric Cantor is sitting back while the world burns. Eric Cantor has already made it clear that he disregards the US Senate entirely, and that the President should re-open government facilities he dictates, without paying for them of course. This comes after he already decided on stealing food out of poor peoples mouths. Hard work with having over 200 days of vacation a year.




Forget Democracy, This Is Eric Cantor’s Dictatorship Now!

He is making sure that his decision to destroy the United States is not overturned this time around. That way he can ensure that taxes go up on all but the top-1%, making sure that the poorest among us are paying for Mitt Romney’s new Ferrari. As the debt ceiling fast approaches, we must beg the president, take the power out of the petty dictator’s hands before it is too late. The new rule change gives one man too much power in government. Just remember these words of wisdom, more true now than they ever were before.




http://www.addictinginfo.org/2013/10/13/eric-cantor-rule-change/
124 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Eric Cantor Given Total Control Of House In LATE NIGHT RULE CHANGE By GOP (Original Post) Segami Oct 2013 OP
Ignored by the media. NYC_SKP Oct 2013 #1
Oh,...you must be referring to the "Facts-Not-My-Job" Media?.. Segami Oct 2013 #5
Button: "Press My Pants"! NYC_SKP Oct 2013 #6
LOL! Segami Oct 2013 #7
so to my blue jeans..... marble falls Oct 2013 #34
Or that they even know what the House is doing. nt tsuki Oct 2013 #42
Wow, JimboBillyBubbaBob Oct 2013 #52
Speaking of Stooges... secondvariety Oct 2013 #55
bury him in emails, the fucker. roguevalley Oct 2013 #51
Seriously, you have a great idea dixiegrrrrl Oct 2013 #56
So far just Think Progress and Huffpo covered it (in addition to Addictinginfo) progressoid Oct 2013 #117
Anyone who says the rethugs *didn't* want the govt shutdown is an idiot meadowlark5 Oct 2013 #2
Republicans really show real life examples of classic villains AZ Progressive Oct 2013 #12
"...audacity and cunning..."(not cunningness, fyi) carla Oct 2013 #40
No words.....just this..... SammyWinstonJack Oct 2013 #71
No wonder Boehner is out there twisting in the wind: truebluegreen Oct 2013 #3
Actually, I suspect this is the opposite. Boehner is too happy to be able to put the blame on Cantor Mass Oct 2013 #10
How did that rule change come about? nt rdharma Oct 2013 #4
H.Res. 368 Incitatus Oct 2013 #23
Very interesting - especially the 7 "Democrats" who voted FOR HRes 368. MH1 Oct 2013 #28
Yes, I wonder what that was about. Incitatus Oct 2013 #29
Here's a list of the Democratic Reps who voted "yea"...... rdharma Oct 2013 #35
Get them a primary oponent gopiscrap Oct 2013 #38
Agreed..... All DINOs except for Daniel Maffei NY24th..... rdharma Oct 2013 #43
yeah I wondering about that also. gopiscrap Oct 2013 #44
When your opponent is drowning, hand him an anvil. Ikonoklast Oct 2013 #113
Voting mostly along party lines with a few Democratic traitors...... rdharma Oct 2013 #30
So does this mean that we are headed to default unless Obama blinks? AZ Progressive Oct 2013 #8
I am sure he has set himself up to profit from it as well, just like last time corkhead Oct 2013 #17
So what can be done to overturn this? Fawke Em Oct 2013 #9
Beat the hell out of Boehner, Cantor, and Cruz Buddha_of_Wisdom Oct 2013 #16
... corkhead Oct 2013 #18
Buddha and Cork... I like both your suggestions. Fawke Em Oct 2013 #46
More Democrats should be calling them out on this! Rosa Luxemburg Oct 2013 #11
That is a illegal move.... every Republican who got involved in this shutdown should be Buddha_of_Wisdom Oct 2013 #13
+ 300000000000000000000000000 !!! russspeakeasy Oct 2013 #20
And double that! maddiemom Oct 2013 #36
what law was broken? onenote Oct 2013 #68
No they did not. Buddha_of_Wisdom Oct 2013 #74
From post above this was voted on by the entire house ... GeorgeGist Oct 2013 #77
Huh? Buddha_of_Wisdom Oct 2013 #78
You don't have the slightest clue about House procedure do you? onenote Oct 2013 #86
Fine, but they still broke the law. The House Republicans are still engaging in RICO activities... Buddha_of_Wisdom Oct 2013 #87
And I'll ask again: what law did the House break onenote Oct 2013 #90
Ahem. RICO. Buddha_of_Wisdom Oct 2013 #91
Ahem. Constitution. onenote Oct 2013 #97
By the way, care to explain how RICO would be applicable? onenote Oct 2013 #101
Shutting down and threatening to default. Buddha_of_Wisdom Oct 2013 #103
THere has to be a predicate criminal act. onenote Oct 2013 #106
It IS a crime to shut down the government, racking up the bills... Buddha_of_Wisdom Oct 2013 #108
The repubs passed a bill to fund the government onenote Oct 2013 #111
Did it occur to you that only one man controls the government right now Buddha_of_Wisdom Oct 2013 #123
Yes it is illegal, and I am glad almost everyone here has seen this post Stuart G Oct 2013 #122
Is he the Robespierre of the Tea Party Revolution? jsr Oct 2013 #14
This is way bigger than defunding the ACA. We are witnessing a criminal coup right before our eyes corkhead Oct 2013 #15
Yes, but with this one, and its publicity, all will know.. Stuart G Oct 2013 #59
So they packed the rules committee and did a late night rule change. Lars39 Oct 2013 #19
And fucked the Government Buddha_of_Wisdom Oct 2013 #22
I'd also add those in the Rules Committee who voted for this mess. Lars39 Oct 2013 #25
The Rule was approved by a vote of the entire House onenote Oct 2013 #69
The *entire* House? Lars39 Oct 2013 #72
It certainly wasn't a secret onenote Oct 2013 #79
Ah, ok. Thanks for the explanation. Lars39 Oct 2013 #95
You're always taking up for these guys, onenote. Th1onein Oct 2013 #82
Because running around misstating the facts and law doesn't do us any good onenote Oct 2013 #93
I understand that you have to correct something that is wrong, but it seems like you are always on Th1onein Oct 2013 #96
You've studied my 20,000 plus posts? onenote Oct 2013 #98
and they fucked every democrat and independent in this country...nt Stuart G Oct 2013 #65
can house rules be changed in the middle of the session - all this talk about the Senate changing Justice Oct 2013 #21
Can the Rules Committe be gutted and others appointed? Lars39 Oct 2013 #26
Much misunderstanding of the process here onenote Oct 2013 #73
Thanks for fighting the good fight on this one. Laelth Oct 2013 #84
I'd like to ask for your credentials. grasswire Oct 2013 #102
Thirty years of legislative practice in DC onenote Oct 2013 #107
Sorry, we're gonna need your long-form birth certificate, too pinboy3niner Oct 2013 #112
LOL! onenote Oct 2013 #114
Haha... cui bono Oct 2013 #118
thank you grasswire Oct 2013 #115
Former Democratic staffer. But I've worked with folks on both sides of the aisle. onenote Oct 2013 #116
Van Hollen is a meticulous, careful person who does the research LiberalEsto Oct 2013 #24
hanging with the GOP in the hours leading up to the government shut down must have arely staircase Oct 2013 #27
What this rule change means is there are no checks and balances. wundermaus Oct 2013 #31
Which is why Holder needs to be told that these two gentlemen and the House Rules Committee Buddha_of_Wisdom Oct 2013 #32
Yeah, we got it, RICO. n/t leeroysphitz Oct 2013 #41
This is why you really need to get a copy of the Constitution. onenote Oct 2013 #80
Ever heard of checks and balances. Buddha_of_Wisdom Oct 2013 #85
There absolutely was a vote of the entire House to adopt the H.Res. 368 onenote Oct 2013 #88
I said fine. I said maybe you're right. Buddha_of_Wisdom Oct 2013 #89
So RICO overrides the Constitution? onenote Oct 2013 #94
Is it really possible to stop these people? pangaia Oct 2013 #33
Republicon OCCULTISM at work again Berlum Oct 2013 #37
Nice angle considering they use the techniques of the mythical Satan. Spitfire of ATJ Oct 2013 #45
When you systematically hide what you are doing from the public, that's OCCULT Berlum Oct 2013 #50
If one reads the bible enough, one would find LOTS of behavior parallels with Satan and Republicans AZ Progressive Oct 2013 #61
I play the end of "Needful Things". Spitfire of ATJ Oct 2013 #64
I hope Alan Grayson is aware of this. nt grasswire Oct 2013 #39
I'm sure he is. onenote Oct 2013 #99
He did such a great job last time Ruby the Liberal Oct 2013 #47
Tweeted this. madfloridian Oct 2013 #48
What do you bet he already has a plan silvershadow Oct 2013 #49
Unbelieveable....k and r...nt. Stuart G Oct 2013 #53
unfuckingbelivable thecrow Oct 2013 #57
Orwellian? The Wizard Oct 2013 #54
Constitutional crisis nadinbrzezinski Oct 2013 #58
The Rules Change from what I see only applies to the Continuing Resolution AZ Progressive Oct 2013 #60
correct onenote Oct 2013 #81
The Senate can make its own rule changes, too, GOP...like on the filibuster, for instance alcibiades_mystery Oct 2013 #62
Hey, you beat me to it! ffr Oct 2013 #120
the only way republicans can win. cheat. spanone Oct 2013 #63
"Death to America," blkmusclmachine Oct 2013 #66
And where is Boehner on this? That knifed him in the back, effectively putting Cantor in charge. BlueStreak Oct 2013 #67
The headline is the wrong way to frame this. Should be "rules changed to deny Democrats .... Scuba Oct 2013 #70
That's pretty accurate, I think. n/t Laelth Oct 2013 #83
The big deal is that it's Cantor, not Boehner, in charge of the shutdown. joshcryer Oct 2013 #105
+1 Segami Oct 2013 #109
This is crazy and wrong rbrnmw Oct 2013 #75
k and r nt MaeScott Oct 2013 #76
"Democracy has been suspended, Mr. Speaker." joshcryer Oct 2013 #92
K&R JohnnyRingo Oct 2013 #100
So what would happen if he died suddenly? Ilsa Oct 2013 #104
I wonder if Cantor has thought about what happens when him as a jewish individual is no longer of Arcanetrance Oct 2013 #110
K & R AzDar Oct 2013 #119
We should refer to Cantor as SonderKommando Canter egold2604 Oct 2013 #121
All Hail King Cantor!!! Plucketeer Oct 2013 #124
 

Segami

(14,923 posts)
5. Oh,...you must be referring to the "Facts-Not-My-Job" Media?..
Sun Oct 13, 2013, 11:24 AM
Oct 2013
That would require them to actually conduct themselves like REAL journalists..

dixiegrrrrl

(60,010 posts)
56. Seriously, you have a great idea
Sun Oct 13, 2013, 02:21 PM
Oct 2013

'Cause it is Sunday...would be marvelous if his office found a million emails clogging up his puter on Monday.

meadowlark5

(2,795 posts)
2. Anyone who says the rethugs *didn't* want the govt shutdown is an idiot
Sun Oct 13, 2013, 11:22 AM
Oct 2013

Looks like they did everything they could possibly think of to hamstring the process and get exactly what they were going for. What a bunch of assholes.

AZ Progressive

(3,411 posts)
12. Republicans really show real life examples of classic villains
Sun Oct 13, 2013, 11:34 AM
Oct 2013

Their level of audacity and cunningness really comes to the level of villains depicted in movies.

carla

(553 posts)
40. "...audacity and cunning..."(not cunningness, fyi)
Sun Oct 13, 2013, 01:05 PM
Oct 2013

It makes one sound so much more credible when one uses words correctly.

Mass

(27,315 posts)
10. Actually, I suspect this is the opposite. Boehner is too happy to be able to put the blame on Cantor
Sun Oct 13, 2013, 11:30 AM
Oct 2013

if something goes wrong.

 

rdharma

(6,057 posts)
35. Here's a list of the Democratic Reps who voted "yea"......
Sun Oct 13, 2013, 12:54 PM
Oct 2013

Ron Barber AZ 2nd
John Barrow GA 12th
Sean Maloney NY 18th
Mike McIntire NC 7th
Collin Petersen MN 7th
Daniel Maffei NY 24th
Jim Matheson UT 4th

 

rdharma

(6,057 posts)
43. Agreed..... All DINOs except for Daniel Maffei NY24th.....
Sun Oct 13, 2013, 01:24 PM
Oct 2013

And I don't know WTF he was thinking!

 

rdharma

(6,057 posts)
30. Voting mostly along party lines with a few Democratic traitors......
Sun Oct 13, 2013, 12:38 PM
Oct 2013

It makes it VERY clear who OWNS this shutdown/default.

Thanks for the info.

AZ Progressive

(3,411 posts)
8. So does this mean that we are headed to default unless Obama blinks?
Sun Oct 13, 2013, 11:29 AM
Oct 2013

It seems to me that Eric Cantor, being a teabagger, is mad enough to make the U.S. Default.

 

Buddha_of_Wisdom

(373 posts)
16. Beat the hell out of Boehner, Cantor, and Cruz
Sun Oct 13, 2013, 11:38 AM
Oct 2013

until they give and scream out "NO MORE" - then beat them up some more....

It's time to stand your ground against the bullies.

They need to be beaten down until they agree to resign from their seats...



 

Buddha_of_Wisdom

(373 posts)
13. That is a illegal move.... every Republican who got involved in this shutdown should be
Sun Oct 13, 2013, 11:36 AM
Oct 2013

arrested, and sentenced to life in prison for extortion, RICO, and many charges we can think of...

And don't call me nuts... it WILL be an reality... and once the default occurs, then the law of the land is dead.

onenote

(42,702 posts)
68. what law was broken?
Sun Oct 13, 2013, 06:29 PM
Oct 2013

The entire House voted on a particular "rule" for the consideration. Was it an unusual rule? Sure. Is there some law that dictates the rules by which the House considers legislation? Not a law, but the Constitution, which specifically gives unbridled power to the House to "determine the Rules of its Proceedings."

Care to explain what made the adoption of this rule "illegal."

 

Buddha_of_Wisdom

(373 posts)
74. No they did not.
Sun Oct 13, 2013, 07:36 PM
Oct 2013

It was the House Rules Committee in secret, shortly before midnight of the shutdown.

No full House voted for it.

onenote

(42,702 posts)
86. You don't have the slightest clue about House procedure do you?
Sun Oct 13, 2013, 08:08 PM
Oct 2013

Here's how it played out:

The House Rules Committee met and voted along strict party lines on the "rule" (H.Res. 368) governing the process by which the CR (H.J. Res. 59) would be considered.

The Rules Committee "reported" the proposed Rule (H.Res. 368) to the full House for consideration at 11:37 on the night of Sept. 30. An hour of debate was allocated on the proposed rule. At the end of that period, at 12:45 AM on October 1, the "question" was called on H. Res. 368 and a roll call vote was held. At 1:11 in the morning, after votes had been cast by 427 members of Congress, the "rule" (H.Res. 368), defining the process by which the CR to fund the government (H.J. Res. 59) would be considered by the House, as approved by a vote of 228-199. During the hour of debate before the full House on the proposed rule, Louise Slaughter (D-NY) expressly asked the Democratic caucus to vote no on the rule for, among other reasons, the fact that it changed the regular order and limited motions to proceed to those made by the Majority Leader.

And since you seem unwilling to accept the facts as they are explained to you by others here, maybe you'll accept them as described by the Library of Congress.

http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d113:HE00368:@@@X

 

Buddha_of_Wisdom

(373 posts)
87. Fine, but they still broke the law. The House Republicans are still engaging in RICO activities...
Sun Oct 13, 2013, 08:09 PM
Oct 2013

and threatening the President.

I would not take it too kindly.

onenote

(42,702 posts)
90. And I'll ask again: what law did the House break
Sun Oct 13, 2013, 08:13 PM
Oct 2013

by adopting the "rule" governing the procedures for considering the CR, keeping in mind that the Constitution expressly gives each House the power to determine the rules of its proceedings.

 

Buddha_of_Wisdom

(373 posts)
91. Ahem. RICO.
Sun Oct 13, 2013, 08:14 PM
Oct 2013

How many times do I need to explain it - Racketeer Influenced Corrupt Organization, and that is EXACTLY what the House Republicans are.

And it's time to indict them.

Way past time. Let the Supreme Court deal with the RICO charges (if needed to be) as the Republicans are influenced by money and power and ignoring their constitutents. That's RICO.

Republicans have lost and lost and lost, and they're still HOLDING US HOSTAGE.

It's time to pay back them karma. and It's not the time to be nice about it.

onenote

(42,702 posts)
97. Ahem. Constitution.
Sun Oct 13, 2013, 08:27 PM
Oct 2013

How many times do I need to explain it. Article II, Section Sec. 5. Then again, maybe you just don't believe the Constitution is the supreme law of the land. It seems like the only explanation for your persistent blindness to reality.

onenote

(42,702 posts)
101. By the way, care to explain how RICO would be applicable?
Sun Oct 13, 2013, 08:39 PM
Oct 2013

What is the predicate offense? Not voting for a particular version of a CR or debt ceiling bill?

onenote

(42,702 posts)
106. THere has to be a predicate criminal act.
Sun Oct 13, 2013, 09:00 PM
Oct 2013

What is it? Passing a funding bill that is different from the bill that the Senate passed? Threatening to pass a debt ceiling bill that the President won't sign? If those are crimes, why isn't it a crime for the President to threaten (or actually veto as funding or debt ceiling extension)? It wasn't a crime for Clinton and the Democrats to play hardball and its not a crime for the repubs. Its just stupid policy and stupid politics for which, in the long run, we need to make they pay by defeating them at the ballot box.

 

Buddha_of_Wisdom

(373 posts)
108. It IS a crime to shut down the government, racking up the bills...
Sun Oct 13, 2013, 09:13 PM
Oct 2013

And at the end, we get stuck with the bill when it needs to be stuck to the RNC.

And threatening to default which is a violation against the 14th Amendment to protect the full faith and credit of the United States.

Not to mention RICO charges. These are all predicate criminal act that is in collusion with the Tea Party, facilitated by the Koch Brothers.

How's that for the RICO connections?

onenote

(42,702 posts)
111. The repubs passed a bill to fund the government
Sun Oct 13, 2013, 09:21 PM
Oct 2013

It had other stuff in it (as is often the case) that the Democrats rightly objected to, not because it was illegal,but because they believed (and I wholeheartedly agree) that they were bad policy. But it would be impossible to prove that the repubs did anything illegal since they are not under any legal obligation to pass the Senate's version of a CR, just as the Democrats are not legally obligated to pass the repubs version and the President is not legally obligated to sign a CR, even one passed by both houses, if he/she doesn't agree with it.

I've pointed out that President Clinton actually vetoed a debt ceiling extension. He also vetoed a CR that would have prevented a government shutdown. I think those actions by President Clinton not only were legal, but the right policy and strategy. You, apparently, think he committed criminal acts.

 

Buddha_of_Wisdom

(373 posts)
123. Did it occur to you that only one man controls the government right now
Mon Oct 14, 2013, 10:42 AM
Oct 2013

and that is Eric Cantor?

If I was President Obama, I'd order the entire Republican House leadership taken away because they is obstructing the legislative process when everyone and its mother knows a clean CR will pass - and the Republicans gave up everything to hold America hostage.

Stuart G

(38,427 posts)
122. Yes it is illegal, and I am glad almost everyone here has seen this post
Mon Oct 14, 2013, 10:40 AM
Oct 2013

Just to make sure, kick again...

Lars39

(26,109 posts)
19. So they packed the rules committee and did a late night rule change.
Sun Oct 13, 2013, 11:57 AM
Oct 2013

Teabaggers couped the Democrats *and* the Republicans, and ultimately everyone.

 

Buddha_of_Wisdom

(373 posts)
22. And fucked the Government
Sun Oct 13, 2013, 12:07 PM
Oct 2013

because only two men controls everything.

Boehner OR Cantor.

Both are criminals to the Nth degree, and needs to be arrested for RICO charges, found guilty and sentenced to life in prison in solitary.

onenote

(42,702 posts)
69. The Rule was approved by a vote of the entire House
Sun Oct 13, 2013, 06:41 PM
Oct 2013

pursuant to the absolute discretion given by the Constitution to the House to "determine the Rules of its Proceedings".

So what crime was committed by the House?

Lars39

(26,109 posts)
72. The *entire* House?
Sun Oct 13, 2013, 07:10 PM
Oct 2013

Then why was it not well known by House members that such a rule change had even occurred?

onenote

(42,702 posts)
79. It certainly wasn't a secret
Sun Oct 13, 2013, 07:53 PM
Oct 2013

The resolution was debated in the full House for an hour and Louise Slaughter, the ranking Democrat on the Rules Committee, expressly urged the entire Democratic House delegation to vote no on the resolution for the very specific reason that it alters the standard rule and empowers the House Majority Leader to make a motion to take up the Senate bill. (Cong. Rec. Page: H6042). It is not that the adoption of this particular rule and what it did (i.e. suspend a standing rule for purposes of the House's consideration of the CR) was unknown to Democrats. Its that there wasn't a thing they could do about it.

onenote

(42,702 posts)
93. Because running around misstating the facts and law doesn't do us any good
Sun Oct 13, 2013, 08:21 PM
Oct 2013

Do you think loudly proclaiming that it was illegal for the House to adopt the rule it adopted to govern its consideration of the CR is helpful when the Constitution clearly gives each House authority to make the rules that govern their proceedings?

Do you think that loudly proclaiming that the entire House didn't vote on that rule when it without a doubt did so is helpful?

I've made very clear that I think that the repubs tactics here are outrageous and would produce a very bad policy result. I've also made it clear that running around shouting "arrest them" is decidedly stupid.

Do you think that if there was the slightest basis for characterizing anything that the repubs have done here as "illegal" that someone like Alan Grayson would remain silent? Of course not. But Grayson has a greater understanding of history than some here do. He undoubtedly knows that the shoe sometimes is on the other foot. He also knows that saying what the repubs have done is illegal, is sedition, is treason would not be helpful if the President ever had to veto a CR or a debt ceiling bill (as Bill Clinton did in the mid-1990s and as President Obama has justifiably threatened to do (at least with respect to the CR).

Its called thinking about the consequences of what you are shouting. Such as: how would arresting anyone change anything. How would the House ever have a quorum to act (required by the Constitution). And that's just one of many "real world" questions that people ought to consider if they are looking for an effective way to respond to the repubs actions rather than engaging in silly fantasies.

Th1onein

(8,514 posts)
96. I understand that you have to correct something that is wrong, but it seems like you are always on
Sun Oct 13, 2013, 08:26 PM
Oct 2013

the other side of things, nevertheless.

Justice

(7,188 posts)
21. can house rules be changed in the middle of the session - all this talk about the Senate changing
Sun Oct 13, 2013, 12:01 PM
Oct 2013

rules mid session (the nuclear option) and here the House goes and changes a rule.

onenote

(42,702 posts)
73. Much misunderstanding of the process here
Sun Oct 13, 2013, 07:19 PM
Oct 2013

The way the House operates is that before a bill is considered, it typically goes to the Rules Committee, which proposes "Rule" that governs the bill's consideration. That rule, after being approved by Committee, is then presented to the entire House in the form of a resolution that must be approved by a majority of the House. Nothing in the standing rules prevents the House, in the "Rule" adopted for consideration of a particular resolution from approving an exception to or suspension of a particular standing rule of the House.

As for "gutting" the Rules Committee, the House has established the division of membership in its Committees and, in the case of the Rules Committee, it has been "2 to 1" plus one in favor of the Majority party for more than forty years (leading to a current 9-4 majority for the repubs). The only way to change it would be for the House to vote to change it, and that isn't going to happen.

Laelth

(32,017 posts)
84. Thanks for fighting the good fight on this one.
Sun Oct 13, 2013, 08:05 PM
Oct 2013

I agree with your interpretation of House procedures. While irregular, this move is neither illegal nor particularly disreputable.

I love the energy we see in this thread, but much of it is misplaced.

-Laelth

onenote

(42,702 posts)
107. Thirty years of legislative practice in DC
Sun Oct 13, 2013, 09:03 PM
Oct 2013

Working closely with a former Rules Committee staffer who is widely acknowledged as one of the preeminent experts on House procedures.

I've cited to the Library of Congress page that describes the process by which the Rules Committee proposed, and the entire House approved (on a 228-199 vote) the rule governing the House's consideration of the CR. I've cited to the Constitutional provision giving the House the power to determine the rules governing its proceedings.
http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d113:HE00368:@@@X
Art I, Sec. 5 Constitution.

If I've misstated anything, please describe and provide support and I'll happily concede my error. And I won't demand anyone's "credentials" either.

grasswire

(50,130 posts)
115. thank you
Sun Oct 13, 2013, 09:28 PM
Oct 2013

These days, a good proportion of what we see as argument is just crapola. We can't afford to just accept blindly. You don't say whether that staffer is/was Democratic or Republican.

BTW, I didn't demand your credentials. I politely asked.

Thanks again.

onenote

(42,702 posts)
116. Former Democratic staffer. But I've worked with folks on both sides of the aisle.
Sun Oct 13, 2013, 09:34 PM
Oct 2013

I've worked on and donated to Democratic campaigns exclusively for my entire adult life. But like most people who work on legislative matters, I have dealt with repubs as well (the types of legislation I've worked on -- communications and intellectual property laws) have for the most part not been "partisan" bills, at least not for the first couple of decades. In recent years, the tactics employed by the repubs, while not "illegal" have made things much more partisan and made it much more difficult to get things done.

 

LiberalEsto

(22,845 posts)
24. Van Hollen is a meticulous, careful person who does the research
Sun Oct 13, 2013, 12:12 PM
Oct 2013

and backs up his facts. He is not given to grandstanding or shooting from the hip.
He was our Representative until Maryland changed the district boundaries a couple of years ago.

I would take anything Van Hollen says extremely seriously.

arely staircase

(12,482 posts)
27. hanging with the GOP in the hours leading up to the government shut down must have
Sun Oct 13, 2013, 12:20 PM
Oct 2013

been like being with the Heaven's Gate people when they were mixing the Phenobarbital into the apple sauce and putting on their matching space suits in preparation for the comet to take them to the "level above human."

wundermaus

(1,673 posts)
31. What this rule change means is there are no checks and balances.
Sun Oct 13, 2013, 12:44 PM
Oct 2013

This process by which a minority can overwhelm and effectively block the majority and install itself as dictator is evidence of a coup d'état. The republicans did it and the democrats let it happen. There is no need to discuss further this singular event. We as a nation have been taken over by the corporatists. We all know what the next step is.

http://www.history.org/media/audio/Libordth.mp3

 

Buddha_of_Wisdom

(373 posts)
32. Which is why Holder needs to be told that these two gentlemen and the House Rules Committee
Sun Oct 13, 2013, 12:45 PM
Oct 2013

are up for indictments for RICO charges and it needs to be done yesterday, and have them arrested.

And the President order the U.S. Treasury to send a bill to the RNC for the wasted money due to the shutdown, payable NOW, and then hire 200,000 collectors to collect every single penny of the $5 billion that the RNC owes us.

onenote

(42,702 posts)
80. This is why you really need to get a copy of the Constitution.
Sun Oct 13, 2013, 07:55 PM
Oct 2013

The Constitution expressly gives authority to the House (and the Senate) to determine the rules governing their respective proceedings.

But enjoy your Constitution-less fantasies.

 

Buddha_of_Wisdom

(373 posts)
85. Ever heard of checks and balances.
Sun Oct 13, 2013, 08:07 PM
Oct 2013

None is there now because only one man controls the Government and that is Eric Cantor.

And he will be alone responsible for the holdup and the rules change. And it is illegal, and the rules was changed without a full House vote.

It would have not been approved in the first place.

onenote

(42,702 posts)
88. There absolutely was a vote of the entire House to adopt the H.Res. 368
Sun Oct 13, 2013, 08:11 PM
Oct 2013

Which is the rule proposed by the rules committee to govern the procedures by which the House would consider the CR (H.J.Res. 59).
It is all spelled out here:

http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d113:HE00368:@@@X

Look, you are clearly in over your head. Following the steps in the legislative process can be confusing. But you at least ought to try to understand it.

 

Buddha_of_Wisdom

(373 posts)
89. I said fine. I said maybe you're right.
Sun Oct 13, 2013, 08:13 PM
Oct 2013

What more do you want?

I said they are still engaging in illegal activities - and it's called Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organization laws...

onenote

(42,702 posts)
94. So RICO overrides the Constitution?
Sun Oct 13, 2013, 08:23 PM
Oct 2013

Really? That's the most ridiculous thing you've posted, even more ridiculous than your unwillingness to concede that you were wrong about the rule being voted on by the entire house (I'm sorry, but "may be you're right is the equivalent of the "if I offended anyone" concession that certain people, not usually found on this board, seem to favor.

Berlum

(7,044 posts)
37. Republicon OCCULTISM at work again
Sun Oct 13, 2013, 01:00 PM
Oct 2013

in the wee hours of the night the Republicons work to undermine the US of A.

Why do Republicons embrace OCCULTISM, and strive to hide all they do from public view?

Berlum

(7,044 posts)
50. When you systematically hide what you are doing from the public, that's OCCULT
Sun Oct 13, 2013, 01:43 PM
Oct 2013

And the Repubbies have a long & disgraceful track record of OCCULTISM. Notice also what they do to the truth and facts. There is a distinct pattern.

AZ Progressive

(3,411 posts)
61. If one reads the bible enough, one would find LOTS of behavior parallels with Satan and Republicans
Sun Oct 13, 2013, 03:55 PM
Oct 2013

Goes to show just how blind Christians are in America when they can't see that Republicans resemble Satan more than God or Jesus.

onenote

(42,702 posts)
99. I'm sure he is.
Sun Oct 13, 2013, 08:30 PM
Oct 2013

And the fact that you don't see him running around yelling about it being illegal under RICO or some other law is because he understands that the Constitution gives authority to the House to make the rules that govern its proceedings and the party in power in a particular house generally gets to make those rules. Maybe its because he's smart enough to know that the time may be fast approaching where the Democratic majority in the Senate decides to change ITs rules.

 

silvershadow

(10,336 posts)
49. What do you bet he already has a plan
Sun Oct 13, 2013, 01:42 PM
Oct 2013

to parlay his good fortune into a challenge for the speakership? He is belle of the ball I would say.

AZ Progressive

(3,411 posts)
60. The Rules Change from what I see only applies to the Continuing Resolution
Sun Oct 13, 2013, 03:48 PM
Oct 2013

Thus it doesn't look like just yet that it also applies to anything to raising the debt ceiling.

 

alcibiades_mystery

(36,437 posts)
62. The Senate can make its own rule changes, too, GOP...like on the filibuster, for instance
Sun Oct 13, 2013, 04:01 PM
Oct 2013

Harry Reid, take note: That's how these people want to play it? Shove 1,000 bills down their throats. End the 60 vote minimum.

ffr

(22,669 posts)
120. Hey, you beat me to it!
Mon Oct 14, 2013, 02:48 AM
Oct 2013

Harry, two can play at that game. Make that rule change, first thing Monday morning.

How 'bout that!?

 

Scuba

(53,475 posts)
70. The headline is the wrong way to frame this. Should be "rules changed to deny Democrats ....
Sun Oct 13, 2013, 06:48 PM
Oct 2013

... their right to bring a Senate resolution before the House".

joshcryer

(62,270 posts)
105. The big deal is that it's Cantor, not Boehner, in charge of the shutdown.
Sun Oct 13, 2013, 08:53 PM
Oct 2013

And that needs to be made clear, I think.

Arcanetrance

(2,670 posts)
110. I wonder if Cantor has thought about what happens when him as a jewish individual is no longer of
Sun Oct 13, 2013, 09:20 PM
Oct 2013

use to his racist constituents. I hope he remembers to these crazy fucks he's not considered white and isn't part of their christian ideal for a country

egold2604

(369 posts)
121. We should refer to Cantor as SonderKommando Canter
Mon Oct 14, 2013, 07:29 AM
Oct 2013

SonderKommandos were Jews doing the work of the Nazis in the Death Camps. Cantor, a Jew, is doing the work of the corporatists and Dominionists. He doesn't realize that when they totally take over the US, he, and all other Jews will be forced to move to Israel to ensure the Second Coming of their version of Christ, the Avenging God, who will smite all the Jews and other Heathens. He is a blight on the name of Judaism.

Shame of you SonderKommano Cantor.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sonderkommando

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