the confederate flag

[arely staircase]

is the disgraced banner of a defeated slaveocracy. after the defeat of said slaveocracy it has popped up from time to time (outright Klan rallies aside) among those protesting: desegregation of schools, civil rights legislation, voting rights legislation, and now the simple fact that our first black president won't cave to the demands of the far right when it comes to providing health insurance for Americans of all races who cant afford it or are denied it because they are sick.

We know who they are and it may be saddening to see it still waived by the residents of the fever swamps in the 21st C.

But remember this and rejoice: every group throughout American history that has fought or protested under that disgraced rag has lost. The confederates lost, the segregationists lost, the anti civil righters lost.

This latest group of reactionary haters will lose too. In fact, once that banner is unfurled you can pretty much count on its side to lose.

[hrmjustin]

1. The confederate flag stands for evil IMO.

[Pretzel_Warrior]

3. A lot of people in the south don't want to admit the evil of slavery

And the corresponding evil of the Confederacy.

[VanillaRhapsody]

4. that's why they call it the War of Northern Aggression...

[Aristus]

14. Anyone who uses that term un-ironically is full of shit, anyway.

The Confederacy fired the first shots. They seized Federal property and fired on Federal troops.

That sounds pretty aggressive to me.

Those grits-eating surrender-monkeys lost because they were only used to whipping and beating people who couldn't fight back...

[Fawke Em]

29. I'm going to give you a chance to clarify before I alert.

As a Southerner, I'm hardly a "grits-eating, surrender monkey."

If you mean the powers that be who started the war, fine. But the uneducated minions they duped to fight for them giving them the "states rights" line or current Southerners who live in urban (Democratic voting) areas, then my alert will be cast.

[Aristus]

33. Cool the itchy trigger finger, hero.

Notice I said "those". Meaning the ones who surrendered. Meaning the Confederates of 1860-65. Meaning not you. Unless you're 160 years old.

Believe me, I understand the hair-trigger defensiveness. I was born and raised in San Antonio, Texas to an all-Southern extended family. My mother was born in Montgomery, Alabama 80 years to the day after the Confederate Constitution was approved and adopted in the same city. An ancestor of mine signed the articles of secession for the State of Georgia. Every ancestor of mine who fought in the Civil War fought for the secessionists. I'll match my Southern credentials line-for-line with yours.

If my hatred for the flag they flew, and the motives for which they flew it get under the radar of your will to be offended, that's just too bad.

Now either stand down, or alert.

[Fawke Em]

147. Apparently, not too itchy or I'd have been here sooner.

My son, who is a history buff and a stat whiz looked at the purple map and thinks all y'all South bashers are full of bigotry. He even picked out the loveliest blue smiley face crossing the South with Nashville and Knoxville as the blue eyes and Chattanooga as the nose... I digress.

My point is that I'm tired of DU and the liberal media on this Southern Alert. We're gerrymandered and plied full of hateful media, yet our urban areas are STILL voting blue, just the same as you are.

And, I'm only a hero to my kids and my five rescued dogs and one cat and one bird. That's enough for me. I just don't like any bigotry - no matter the broad brush.

[LukeFL]

150. Great response

[stonecutter357]

118. You seem concerned!

[Fawke Em]

146. Hey, Alabama!

Tell this schmoe we have liberals in our cities and TP in our rural areas.

And, the fact that I know what a schmoe is can only mean one thing: I married a damn Yankee Jew! OMG! My stars and garters!

LOL. Love Bama. My Daddy lives near Huntsville. I was in the protype first bunch of Space Camp. I have the Tweets to prove it, too.

[LukeFL]

149. Why will you alert?

He's right for what he said. I think you missed understood him/her

[bluemarkers]

42. That's what I call the late uncivil war

wink wink

It is difficult to explain how someone like myself - who grew up in the south, yet is not prejudiced nor do I have evil in my heart, can feel a twinge of sympathy for my ancestors who fought in that war. You see, in North Carolina at least, there has always been a sense we were drawn into the war... but anyway... I digress.

The civil war was started by the rich and fought by the poor. Sound familiar? it's an ancient scenario played out even today. The poor dumb Southerners really did think they were fighting for a noble cause - a way of life, a "war of northern aggression", but they weren't. It's easy to blame the South for the countries' woes.... but gosh maybe the Democratic Party needs to look in the mirror. Maybe if they had tried to hold on to the Democratic vote after the civil rights movement, there would be more parity down here. I'm sick to death of what's happened in North Carolina under the dumbazz Tillis gang, but hopefully using information to our advantage, we can vote them out asap! I would love to see a similar strategy in other states as well.

As to the confederate battle flag... to use it in anything but an historical setting is an slap in the face to all Americans, but especially to Africian Americans, whose ancestors suffered tremendously for 250 years. (and there there was jim crow)

(don't throw tomatoes, can't afford to waste food!)

[Tom Ripley]

116. +1000 (from someone born and raised in the south)

[pitbullgirl1965]

127. 1+

A lot of people in the south don't want to admit the evil of slavery
And the corresponding evil of the Confederacy

The trouble isn't getting them to admit how evil it is/was. The trouble is getting them to denounce how bad it is. They don't' think it's evil. They believe it was a just system and war. They should have had a tighter rein kept on them for decades and heavier penalties to squash the beginnings of Jim Crow and the KKK. They've operated as a terrorist cell for decades against POC and anyone who stood up against their system. (This includes decent Southerners battling against their hatred down there. )

[arely staircase]

7. I agree and my forefathers faught under it

They owned no slaves but were just poor boys fighting the rich man's war. Defending an economic system in which they were at the bottom. But they bought into the propaganda that told them they had more in common with the big plantation owners than they did the slaves. When in fact the free labor of slavery undermined their hope of working to get ahead.

[hrmjustin]

12. How long has your family been in Texas? I have family that has been in NY since the 1670's.

That was before it was NY.

[arely staircase]

19. since the 1870s

My GGG grandfather and his brothers were in Alabama units. The family came toAmerica right after the rrevolutionary war.

[hrmjustin]

20. Cool. The last to get here was my Great Grandparents on my mother's side that came from Italy.

I have English, Irish, and Italian blood in me.

[arely staircase]

27. well in addition to our scots-irish (redneck) roots

we are also Mexicans. So we get racism. To be fair the Mexican immigrants in my part of the South are gaining a good bit of status here as more and more all the old rednecks have a Mexican/Mexican American inlaw niece grandkid, etc. Black/White couples are very common too, and though whisper ed about in certain circles are not outcasts.

[hrmjustin]

28. My mothers parents got married in the 40's and to some people irish/itialian marriages were taboo

at the time.

[arely staircase]

41. mexican-anglo/celtic "white" marriages have strangely

always been, if not encouraged, not brought the disapproval that white/black unions have around here. For the record white/black couples are common enough here now that nobody, at least publicly, would dare say anything about them.

But even during the darkest days of segregation when there were white and black schools. The Hispanic kids light-skinned or very dark indigenous ones went to the white schools. Doesn't mean they didn't experience bigotry but there were Mexican/Mexican american kids dating the white kids in the 50s. I dint mention that to say that this place was enlightened. If anything it demonstrates how shit upon the Blacks were.

[hrmjustin]

43. Mixed marriages of all races is very common here in Brooklyn now.

[Fawke Em]

30. Thank you for pointing that out.

I'm forever pointing out on DU that most of the men who fought for the Confederacy weren't wealthy enough to own slaves, so they were duped, essentially, into fighting for the Confederacy because the wealthy owner-class drummed up the state's rights claim.

It's really no different than all the young men and women who signed up for military service after 9/11 and then were duped into going to Iraq to fight against non-existent weapons of mass destruction when the war was really about oil, money and global positioning.

[arely staircase]

34. yep. what really bugs me

is when people try to say that the fact that most confederate soldiers didn't own slaves is evidence that the war wasn't about slavery. As you pointed out, the fact that virtually none of the Americans who died in Iraq didnt own oil wells doesnt mean it wasn't about oil .

[lunasun]

94. +$1

[bvar22]

126. Like ALL Wars, the Civil War was fought by the Working Class Peasants to enrich the 1%.

SEE: Smedley Butler

[nikto]

138. SMEDLEY

Somebody needs to make a movie about his life (and via that, giving the inside story of
militarized US Financialism/Imperialism, as well as the attempted coup against FDR).

I'd say, Oliver Stone directs.

Hugh Jackman as Smedley.

$150B budget should cover battle scene FX,
30s-flavor set design, etc.

SMEDLEY



(ofcourse, he'd have to shave)

[nikto]

132. The Confederate Flag is...

The Flag Of Hating America.

[Dawson Leery]

2. It should have been banned just as the Nazi swastika was.

[VanillaRhapsody]

5. It should be banned because it is the Battle Flag of a defeated

No other country would allow the defeated flag to be flown with impunity as that one is...

[davidn3600]

31. Ironically, that's what makes America great

The First Amendment is quite unique from the rest of the world.

[onenote]

54. +1

[N_E_1 for Tennis]

111. Along with "Free Speech" zones?

I'm with you in spirit, but sometimes reality does creep up and smack the ever living day lights outta us.
I never thought in my 61 years living in the U.S. I would hear the term "Free Speech" zone.
So yea banning the flag....I got to think on that one a while. Not in favor of it now... but!

[Sgent]

59. When was

the Nazi swastika banned?

In Germany it is, but its certainly never been banned in the US.

[Warren DeMontague]

83. The First Amendment is a bigger "fuck you" to Nazis than banning a symbol ever could be.

[LAGC]

123. +1

Let them show off their ignorance.

No need to feed their persecution complex.

[whopis01]

114. I am happier with it not being banned.

Waving that flag doesn't make one a racist. They are a racist before they pick up that flag and identify themselves to the world.

At least when I see someone wearing or waving or displaying that flag on their vehicle, I know what type of person I am dealing with. So I say if someone wants to sound a warning alarm about themselves and walk down the street letting everyone around know that they are a racist asshole, let them do it. Just makes them easier to identify.

[Hoyt]

6. That cursed yellow snake flag is similarly a symbol of hatred.

[DRoseDARs]

38. 4 years of Teahadist taint does not erase ~250 years of American historical significance.

Maybe you should learn its history before you piss all over it.

[annabanana]

89. THANK YOU! . . . .n/t

[hack89]

45. Don't know the history of the Gadsden flag, do you?

It was the one of the first flags used by the US marines and the US navy, dating back to the Revolutionary War.

[Hoyt]

52. That's nice, but it's been usurped by bigoted, gun loving, right wingers.

You might know folks who fly that flag, but where I live the armed, callous bigots wave it.

[hack89]

53. I don't associate with RW bigots so I wouldn't know.

There is a reason I chose to live in a progressive blue state.

[Hoyt]

68. Well, look at who is waving that flag nowadays. Simple enough.

[hack89]

87. I understand.

you need to understand that as a Navy veteran, the history of the flag means more to me than what the Tea Party uses it for. "Don't Tread on Me" and the Rattlesnake motif has been part of the Navy for over 200 years - the oldest ship in the Navy has always flown a jack with those two elements on it.

[Hoyt]

88. OK. There are also those who tell us the confederate flag was used by Jesus or some such junk.

The fact is, those f&*kers waving that flag nowadays are right wing, and likely bigots.

I doubt you have a Gadsden Flag, nor would you walk around in front of the White House waving one.

That's my point.

[DRoseDARs]

90. OK, enough: They also wave the US flag, therefore its a racist symbol too.

Your move.

[Hoyt]

91. When they wave it, it is, especially when along side the confederate and Gadsden flags.

[DRoseDARs]

93. "When they wave it, it is, especially when along side the confederate and Gadsden flags."

And there you have it, folks.

[TeamPooka]

105. you lost the debate with that one.

[Hoyt]

120. I have to give another DUer credit for pointing this one out. . . . . . .

Last edited Mon Oct 14, 2013, 04:29 PM - Edit history (1)

[Gore1FL]

98. I think what Hoyt meant

was that the Tea Party has brought negative connotations to the symbol. Hopefully it will one day be reclaimed to represent what it should.

Similarly, (and on a different scale) the Swastika had a different meaning before it was rotated 45 degrees by the NAZIs. I doubt that symbol will every be reclaimed.

I wouldn't fly a Gadsden Flag now for fear of being confused for a Teabilly.

I don't speak for Hoyt, but I think that was his point.

[Decaffeinated]

84. I'll be sure to let the Navy personnel know that their patch is offensive...

Crack a book and try again...

[Hoyt]

85. LOL. Those asses carrying the flag in those photos ain't Navy.

[bluestate10]

8. They try to hide it and try to make other voters accept them. But some of their

adherents can't help but show what they truly stand for. The confederate flag and "put a White back in the White House" teeshirts show them up for what they are, low information, largely racists bastards. Their time to rule the country is over, the best they can do is hold on to backward enclaves in the country, and soon, they will lose control of even those areas.

[HereSince1628]

9. It lives on as an ensign of the Teahad...rebelliousness, just like the Gadsden flag

Just as this use of the Gadsden flag by the teajad doesn't capture it's original meaning, neither does this use of the stars and bars.

I do not think it's any better in this role than as an enduring icon of the Confederacy. It's likely worse...at least the Confederacy is DEAD.

I do think it's important to understand what -is- being communicated...and that is REBELLION. And although many here on DU don't want to call this sedition or treason, THE LUNKHEADS THAT ARE WAVING THE FLAGS are the ones displaying symbols that are intended to declare a STATE OF REBELLION exists between themselves and the Federal government.

[North Carolina Knigh]

10. I live in the Deep South

For the most part those fly the confederate flag do so out racism I believe. There are places the flag should be flown, cemeteries, certain government buildings and monuments.

[arely staircase]

16. so do I

I had poor ancestor who faught under it to defend the economic interests of the upper class slaveowners. They were fooled as the poor always are. I hate that flag

[Aristus]

18. I'm sorry; did I read that wrong?

"There are places the flag should be flown, cemeteries, certain government buildings and monuments." ?

I'm sorry, but no. No, there are no places that flag should be flown. If I had my way, the confederate flag would be flown only in Hell...

[arely staircase]

21. I dont think it deserves any place of official honor.

Cemetaries of Confederate soldiers should fly the American flag and the flags of the states the souldiers fought for.

[Aristus]

22. I agree.

No place for the slavery flag...

[IrishAyes]

35. The original is already there, waiting for its devotees to join it.

[Art_from_Ark]

78. There are Confederate cemeteries in the South

and I see nothing wrong with flying the Confederate flag there. The underlying message is that the Confederacy is dead.



However, I would not want to see the Confederate flag flying over any government buildings, and I avoid people who display it on their vehicles or houses.

[LittleGirl]

95. wrong wrong wrong

Our flag has 50 stars - FOR THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA which these soldiers fought for. I do not agree. sorry

(and my Mother was born in Ark).

[Art_from_Ark]

129. That's your opinion

I see nothing wrong with it in this sort of historical context. Those soldiers buried in that particular cemetery were Confederates, not Union soldiers. And that particular flag is not the one that the neoconfederates rally around.

If the Klan were holding rallies there, it would be different. But that particular cemetery, at least, is a place where one can go and contemplate about those terrible times. And there is a national cemetery not too far from that one, where Union soldiers, and perhaps other Confederate soldiers, are buried.

[LittleGirl]

134. Fly the current 50 Star US on Top

and below it, that flag; if you must.

That's the solution I have to your request.

I believe it's dishonorable to not recognize your current country/state first (over the top) of the 'old' flag.
We're United now.
That flag should be raised above the history.

[arely staircase]

136. uh, maybe

But why not fly the State flags of the confederate soldiers under US flag instead? But your post is thoughtful and wrll reasoned.

[LittleGirl]

143. thanks for your thoughts

I don't want to be an ass with my opinion. First is first is all. It's nothing to fight about. There are so many other issues much greater.

[Art_from_Ark]

137. May I suggest that you take a trip to your mother's home state,

specifically the northwest. Visit the Pea Ridge National Battlefield between Rogers and Garfield on US Highway 62. Spend a few hours there, watch the movie, read the literature, take the self-guiding tour. Then head down to Fayetteville via Interstate 540 and see the huge United States flag at the Arkansas 112 junction in Fayetteville. Then go visit the Confederate cemetery with its tiny Confederate flag. I think you'll realize that this is a molehill that is nowhere near being a mountain.

[LittleGirl]

144. she came from NW

Near Texarkana and Ashdown. I have only been there twice in my life and the first time I was a child. The second time I was a teenager. Decades ago. She hasn't been there (my Mother) in at least 2 decades herself. I'd love to see more of it some day. Thanks.

[Art_from_Ark]

145. Visiting the Pea Ridge battlefield can be an enlightening experience

I was actually pretty down on Arkansas as a child because of the whole Civil War thing, but a visit to the battlefield as part of a 6th grade field trip gave me a new perspective. I have never been a "Confederate sympathizer", but after visiting the battlefield, I came to realize that the war, and the conditions that led up to it, were actually quite complicated. It wasn't merely a matter of "North good, South bad", which is what I had actually believed nearly all through elementary school (and probably cost me a lot of friends in the process).

[niyad]

62. welcome to DU-- WHY should that flag be flown anywhere, especially "certain government buildings

and monuments"?

[Arugula Latte]

96. WTF? Why fly the flag of a defeated traitorous people who fought to keep slavery?

Confederate flag = the Flag of Losers, in every sense of the word.

[grantcart]

11. Recently went to S Carolina for 2 weeks and never saw a CF or decal the entire time.

It is a vanishing icon.

[arely staircase]

17. same in east texas

I am addressing the reactionaries in DC today.

[grantcart]

24. I understand, just interesting how it seems to have faded in some areas.

[rppper]

125. Where in east Texas?

I grew up in the Longview area...I still have family there in Marshall and Henderson. my mothers folks are from the Lufkin/Nacogdoches area...

Nobody in my family flew that flag, and our family settled that area back in the mid 1700's.....

[arely staircase]

130. without giving too much personal info

Very close to nacogdoches.

[rppper]

139. Gotcha.....

My moms maiden name was Brookshire, so I hear where you're coming from! You're the second person today I've been in contact with from eastex....another DU'er I talked with was from around the Marshall area...small world!

[arely staircase]

140. yeah Brookshire

The world is now small. East Texas has always been so. In these days of social medi ET is now microscopic with everyone all up in everyone esle' s business. As you can imagine. But there are lots of good people here and the smallness does have its advantages from time to time.

[rppper]

141. I miss home a lot...

But at this point I wouldn't feel comfortable moving back there. It was a great place growing up in the 80's though, and there are some really nice people there. But where I grew up is now the land of Ghomert....besides that I have a beach, bike rallys, races and Orlando an hour away...maybe a few years down the road though....

[Lordquinton]

44. I've seen it more and more here in California

I think it's mostly people from east county, the more rural parts.

[Cha]

48. Leave it to teabaggers palin and cruz to

whip it up for the Klan rally in front of our White House.

[SunSeeker]

74. Yes, you pegged it. It was a Klan rally. nt

[progressoid]

71. My neighbor has one on the bumper of his car.

In Iowa.

I saw a woman with a Confed flag purse in Kentucky earlier this year.

[Cali_Democrat]

13. Well said, arely

[arely staircase]

23. thank you nt

[Skittles]

15. all it is now is a symbol of racism

[DinahMoeHum]

25. There's a better use for it. . .as a toilet. . .

. . .same thing goes for the Nazi flag.

[Turbineguy]

26. The new GOP is all about slavery.

You're either a slave or an owner.

[obxhead]

32. Yep

Well said.

[Iggo]

36. ...is flown by racist fucks.

Period.

[Cha]

37. It was nothing but a Klan rally today. Viva the Union, arely! thank you!..

[arely staircase]

46. + 1

[lostincalifornia]

39. Regardless, it is part of the history of this country, and so is the racism that also occurred in

the North that many fail to recognize, some not that long ago.

I was originally born in Iowa, and there were neighborhoods where African Americans could not live in. There were organizations which would not allow them to be members.

Remember the Boston busing and segregation fights?

The history of the country has been filled with intolerance.

The important thing is that we move beyond that, and those that don't. are appropriately scorned and ridiculed

[arely staircase]

47. right on

My OP is a response to the alleged Veterans and the traitorous/loser Confederate Battle flags displayed

[lostincalifornia]

64. I know

[noiretextatique]

65. that is very true

Racism was never confined to the south. However, no other states fought to preserve slavery except southern states.

[lostincalifornia]

67. history is history, that is true

[4bucksagallon]

40. One place that I can think of they didn't/aren't losing is breaking unions.

I can remember back in the 1980's BE&K union busters from the south. They rolled into IP paper mills and Boise Cascade later on to work while the strikes were going on, these scabs proudly displayed their confetti flag from their rusted pickup trucks. I have heard that Halliburton has acquired them, it would not surprise me to find that is true.

"Later that spring, the contract expired at Jay,ME, another long-time IP plant that made kraft papers. This plant also employed around 1200 people and had the facilities to manufacture pulp from logs, then paper from pulp – it was a complete paper mill. Jay, ME had been one of the earliest locations of IP and had not had a strike since 1922. They enjoyed only one shutdown holiday per year, but the company’s concessionary demands included giving up even that 1 shutdown day. In the future, it would be necessary to run the plant 365 days per year! IP moved in a southern contractor called BE&K who came with all of the skilled people necessary to maintain production in that complex mill. They set up approximately 100 mobile homes inside the fence, just far enough apart to allow the doors to open, and there they housed their skilled SCABS. At a Memorial Day Rally, UPIU President Wayne Glenn attended a rally, led a march to the mill gates and ended up getting arrested and charged with inciting to riot."

[NBachers]

63. Here's the picket sign I made for a newspaper strike my Teamster union participated in:

[4bucksagallon]

73. Yeah scabs were a major problem in strikes. They also work for a lot less money.........

Stupid is as stupid does.

[DissidentVoice]

49. I'm not from the South, but...

My maternal grandparents were from Kentucky and Tennessee originally and moved to Indiana (not much better, I know).

My mother told me that my grandfather (who had a huge portrait of FDR in his living room) once told a bunch of KKK "recruiters" to "get the hell out of my sight." They complied, as well they should. My grandfather was a 6'+ hot-tempered Scots-Irishman, Chrysler assembly line worker and UAW steward.

[Brigid]

100. Boy did those KKK recruiters pick the wrong guy!

[DissidentVoice]

106. They certainly did!

My grandfather died in 1963, three years before I was born, but I heard plenty of stories from him from my mother, my uncles and aunts.

He was not one to trifle with, and when he said "NO" that was the last word.

He was a staunch FDR New Deal Democrat to the end of his days.

When I would "get political" around some of my family often the response would be "you sound just like your grandfather."

It is unfortunate I never got to meet him.

I can only imagine what he would think of the Republican Party of today, given that he didn't much like the Republican Party of his era.

[blkmusclmachine]

50. The Confederate flag is a Jim Crow, Pro-Racist flag, for sure.

And the Tea Party "Don't Tread On Me" flag is its 21st Century Cousin.

[UTUSN]

51. R#51 & K for, who are you "arely staircase' and why do I agree with you so much? n/t

[Spitfire of ATJ]

55. The public is with us. Which is why this is considered to be hilarious...

[mountain grammy]

56. Good post, thanks.

[gopiscrap]

57. That flag is so offensive

it should be cause for those fuckers for attempting to incite a riot

[HooptieWagon]

58. My g g gf immigrated to the US, fought in the Civil War in the US Navy.

He was an officer aboard a frigate standing by at the Battle of the Monitor and the Merrimack (Virginia). I was born in Va, and have lived in the South most of my life.
What I can tell you about the Confederate Flag... some of those who wave it around do so as a symbol of their racist pride, others wave it around as a symbol of their anti-government sentiment. Yes, there's a pretty big overlap among those groups. There are reasons they claim, like "Southern Pride", but thats just B.S. It always boils down to one of the two, or both, reasons I cited.

[BluegrassStateBlues]

60. As a Kentuckian, I will no longer tolerate the assholes waving around symbols of hatred

like the Confederate flag, claiming the bullshit reason of "heritage."

It's akin to how people use racial slurs and claim it was part of their upbringing.

[arely staircase]

61. amen

I finally made it a personal policy to politlely ask anyone who says n***** around me to please not do so. Once you do that a few times it becomes easier. That doesnt happen very often like ig did in my childhood and teenage years but occassionally someone thinks that it is perfectly ok to use that word aroud me (ironic use excluded)

[Ikonoklast]

69. You are far more polite than I am.

I ask them if the brain damage is permanent.

[noiretextatique]

66. today's disgraceful display of that flag

at the White House was a clear message. Perhaps they will burn a cross on the lawn next.

[Brigid]

103. They gotta go home and get their robes and hoods first.

For maximum effect, you know.

[noiretextatique]

124. they've traded the hoods and robes

for business suits

[Brigid]

102. Isn't that kind of what Paula Deen tried to argue?

[theHandpuppet]

70. Fly this flag instead!

[link:http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=&imgrefurl=http://jubiloemancipationcentury.wordpress.com/2011/05/03/usct-regimental-flag-22nd-united-states-colored-infantry/&h=300&w=271&sz=30&tbnid=frUa5_VIuGkocM:&tbnh=90&tbnw=81&zoom=1&usg=__5vEbGJxYabiU30sRZ90Z4HrHSYM=&docid=Sq9KRoNkDIOODM&sa=X&ei=G2tbUvfaC8fh4APpxYHYCw&ved=0CCsQ9QEwAA|

[Dark n Stormy Knight]

72. I live in Southeastern PA, and on a very convenient route to and from my homeo

is a house with a Confederate flag hanging over an the upper story gable window.

I don't know why, but over this past year it has been deteriorating at an accelerated pace. I can't wait 'til it's in tatters.

[flamingdem]

75. Our Union Forever

[Jamaal510]

76. Honestly I wasn't offended by the loser waving the confederate flag;

I just thought that he came across as a backwards imbecile. Regardless of that display of nonsense this weekend in front of the White House, he and the rest of those loons there are still going to be stuck with a Black president for several more years. Furthermore, all that event really did was confirm to swing voters and everyone else outside of the wingnut bubble how bigoted their ideology is, and how cowardly the leaders of the Republican Party are in condemning the display of the confederate flag (unless they secretly are bigots themselves). Offensive behavior like this from the Right will be sure to spark higher midterm turnout from key Democratic constituencies next year.

[quinnox]

77. The confederate flag's design

There was a story I read on the internet a few years back that talked about all the flags in terms of their designs in history, and the confederate flag came out as the winner. And I tend to agree that it is a very striking flag. Please don't jump on me for this, I am merely saying I appreciate the design of it, just how it looks. I know it is hard for some to do this, to judge something in complete isolation from all the baggage, like the history and politics of it.

[Lex]

92. How do you feel about the guillotine's design?

Judging it in complete isolation, that is.

[vlakitti]

99. YAY!

Man, was that cold.

[Recursion]

79. It's historically wrong, too

The "Confederate flag" you can buy in stores today isn't an historical flag. It's closest to the Confederate naval jack, but it's not something someone in 1865 would recognize.

[Kablooie]

80. This is ...

[dballance]

81. I really wish they would've banned it before allowing the Southern States back in.

That would have been the proper and most opportune time to ban the display of a treasonous symbol. It would have had to be an amendment and not just a law. They could've done it then. I don't know if it was even considered or if there was just too much else going on.

[MarchemintotheSea]

82. One could also say the same about the Flag of Texas too

considering that Anglo's bummed rushed Mexican Texas, to ensure that Texas would be run by whites and slavery would be the enshrined in the law even though it was abolished in Mexico.

Sure I remember the Alamo, a bunch of White Dudes fighting to protect slavery got their ass kicked by a bunch of Mexicans.

All banners or flags that were the symbols of slavery need to be abolished in America.

We no longer need display's of old times not forgotten.

[arely staircase]

133. yeah except Texas still exists and hasn't had slavery for most of its existence

Where as the confederacy is gone and it had slavery for the entirety of its existence. And the Texas flag isn't a universally recognized symbol of white supremacy and on and on.

[Scootaloo]

86. It's not even the confederate flag

The flag used as the "confederate flag" these days was never in actual use by the confederacy - it uses the Naval jack's proportions, and the Army of Northern Virginia's colors (the naval jack had a much darker red, almost a maroon, rather than the crimson seen in this example; and the N. Virginian battle flag was a square banner, not a long flag)

The "confederate flag" is a post-bellum creation, often attributed to the Ku Klux Klan.

It's honestly rather staggering to take a look at how many of the southern states use this flag as a template for their own. Tennesse, Louisiana, Texas, and South Carolina are the only confederate states whose current flags are not modeled after a confederate flag of some sort (I'm not counting Oklahoma, as Indian Territory's alignment with the south was tenuous at the very best).

I actually found Texas an interesting instance on that, since the design is very similar to the Confederate national flag - but the design predates not just the civil war, but even the statehood of Texas. Neat.

[LostOne4Ever]

107. IIRC from high school

The Texas flag was actually based on the US flag.

Many of the american settlers who came to Texas came here explicitly to take over the land and join the US.

Though there were some politicians who favored independence most of the people who ran the Republic of Texas expected to get annexed to the US from the start and because of that based the Texas Flag on the US flag.

[ehrnst]

97. Now a symbol of a futile struggle against progress... (nt)

[ck4829]

101. The Standard of losers, traitors, and people who can't let go of the past or their special rights

So that would mean the Confederate Flag is a perfect symbol for the Tea Party and Republicans.

[Spider Jerusalem]

104. You might want to think about changing your avatar, there

I can only guess that historical ignorance is responsible for your not being aware of the role of Mexico's abolition of slavery in Texan independence.

[LostOne4Ever]

108. The confederate flag

Is a symbol of slavery, treason, and racism. That is the first thing that pops into anyones mind when they see the flag and that is what it represents.

If these racist really gave a shit about "southern pride" they could pick countless other symbols to express it that are NOT associated with racism and slavery. How about a picture of a steamboat? Or Mark Twain? Or how about MLK!!!! He was a southerner and represents the best in humanity!

No, the stars and bars are purely about hatred. Anyone trying to argue otherwise is a racist who is engaging in self delusion and denial of their own bigotry.

[Roland99]

109. Godwin's Law 2.0

[caseymoz]

110. Wave it saying this worked out so well before. nt

[Avalux]

112. It is THE American symbol of hatred and insurrection.

Do you think it's possible many don't understand what it means? There is a lot of revisionist history and cluelessness out there; who knows what goes on in home schools.

[whopis01]

113. I think slaveocracy is an inappropriate term

Wouldn't a slaveocracy be a government run by slaves?

[Tom Ripley]

115. The white flag of surrender should be the banner of southern "heritage"...

since it was the last flag to fly over Dear Ol' Dixie

[xocet]

117. "Slaveocracy" is a term that is self-contradictory. It would be better to use a different neologism.

...if you have one that would be appropriate.

n/t

[arely staircase]

131. ah. I guess it would seem to imply a system in which the slaves are in charge.

Is than what you are getting at? Good point. Slavedriverocracy? Kinda awkward. Hmm. I will have to think on it. Any suggestions?

[xocet]

148. That is a good question...

Yes, here is my suggestion for a neologism along with some reference material that makes me believe that the word fits the desired meaning and has the correct form (the pertinent lines are highlighted in a shade of red):

So, my suggestion is anaxicracy.

[Vashta Nerada]

119. The Confederate flag just needs to go.

Be wiped away from existence.

[frog64]

121. stars and bars

I like Reg. Clyburn (S.C.) who once suggested that those wanting to honor Southern heritage ought to use the old Stars and Bars flag of the Confederacy instead of the St. Andrews cross battle flag which has been taken over by the Klan and Nazis. No one would know what the heck the Stars and Bars represented. In any case, I do not think the Battle Flag ought to be displayed publicly. Put it in museums where it belongs!

[Jackpine Radical]

122. Nothing like a Confederate flag to bring people together, I say.

Wave that fuckin' thing at our President and just watch us coalesce around him.

[Rebellious Republican]

128. To use some southern terminology, Fuckin' A JP.

As a southern white man I can honestly say I find the use of the confederate in this manner as extremely offensive.

We lost, get over it assholes! And yes I do use that term liberally.

[zinnisking]

135. Thanks for the uplifting post.

[arely staircase]

142. thank you nt