Nobody wants to accept some pain in exchange for other side accepting pain. Everybody wants victory

[hooverville29]

For example, I heard someone say in a social setting that a deal could be slowing down Obamacare implementation, more audits on eligibility for subsidies and dropping the devices tax in exchange for a CR restoring pre-sequester levels across the board without entitlement offsets and a debt ceiling increase for a full year without condition.


He was flooded from both sides with irate reactions from adherents to both 'sides.' I had to shake my head, not because the guy had such a great idea. It was just the bitterness of the reaction and the obvious assumption that the purpose behind all this is total victory for 'us' and defeat of the 'others' simply for the sake of 'our' victory and 'their' defeat.

And the result? The country and those dealing with us around the world are being set up for a massive defeat. But -- hey -- at least those 'others' didn't win.

[NYC_SKP]

1. Our side has done nothing but compromise from the beginning with nothing in return.

Basta.

Enough.

No more.

[hooverville29]

5. Well, they've dropped the Obamacare defunding nonsense. What's the next thing they should change

and what is the specific position we should take to induce additional concessions beyond dropping the Obamacare defunding, which they've already done.

[Deep13]

7. That was not a concession since they had no right to demand it...

...in the first place. The next thing they should change is to restore the sequester cuts.

[Fridays Child]

24. Bingo. And they didn't drop it to make a concession, anyway.

They dropped it in an attempt to stem the hemorrhage of support. The rats are deserting at frightening speed and Republicans are scrambling to keep the ship afloat.

And altering the message will probably work because your typical rank-and-file right wing nut has the memory of a gnat. Combine that with the steady diet of lies that baggers lap up from Fuck Snooze, Beck, Limbaugh, et al., and you can bet that, within a few days, they'll be lined up behind their duplicitous leaders like the mindless little twits that they are.

[Old and In the Way]

28. it's the law.

they don't get to do-overs by holding our system of government hostage. You don't like the law? Win a majority in the Presidential elections to agree with you.

We get to have a revolution every 4 years...that's what Jefferson and our Founding Fathers baked into the Constitution...you just need to have a plurality of voters to agree with you. Otherwise, suck it.

[NRaleighLiberal]

2. don't you think it is about time for Dems to stand firm for what is actually right for the people?

This is one of those cases where one side is absolutely "wrong". And it ain't us!

[LaydeeBug]

3. False Equivalence. NEXT!!! nt

[Deep13]

4. False equivalency.

Just because there are two sides to an argument, does not mean they are both equally valid. This is a common R. tactic. Whenever the Ds try to compromise (which means screwing poor people who are already holding on by their fingernails), the Rs respond by moving further to the right. You cannot compromise with those who are not acting in good faith, so I am glad that--for once--Obama is refusing to appease the fascist element of the R party. We are talking about defaulting on the national debt to stop something that is already law and fully funded.

[Here]

6. I agree

It's unfortunate.

[Deep13]

8. It's unfortunate that delusional sociopaths have any say whatsoever.

I mean the so-called Tea Party, of course.

[hrmjustin]

18. Hello welcome to DU.

I think it is unfortunate the GOP are destroying this nation and I hope the dems stand up to the GOP.

Welcome aboard my friend.

[Here]

19. Thanks

[hrmjustin]

21. Your welcome.

[Deep13]

9. And can you explain just what "pain" the Rs or their super-elite donors have had to endure?

Many, many governmental responsibilities have been neglected for the past 30 years all in the name of small government. What pain have the Rs backers felt during any of it?

[RichGirl]

14. The weathiest 1%...

Take 93% of the income. They've used the extra cash to buy the Republican Party....who doesn't give a crap about the poor saps who continuously vote for them.

Fox News made fools of their viewership by convincing them that Romney would win by a landslide. But...do they learn...NO. Now they are believing that Obamacare is "dangerous"! Sheesh!!!

[backscatter712]

10. Fuck that shit. No rewards for extortion.

The Dems should not be willing to meet the teabaggers halfway to hell this time.

They decided to try to coerce policy using extortion when they couldn't get it by winning elections.

Blackmail + subversion of democracy.

Fuck this false-equivalence bullshit. If you reward extortion, you'll see the scumfucks take more hostages and demand higher ransoms next time.

Give them zero. Zilch. Nothing. Clean CR and clean debt limit increase, or nothing. Hold the line, zero compromise.

We do not negotiate with terrorists. Your concern is noted.

[hrmjustin]

11. I don't like pain. It hurts!

[enki23]

12. We should cut the baby in half, so that both sides can have some stuff. That would be fair.

.

[TheKentuckian]

13. Rolling over for hijackers is disaster

Fucking terrorists

[backscatter712]

15. Exactly. It's time we give the teabaggers a choice.

End the extortion, or we go to fucking war with them.

[elleng]

16. B.S, its repigs who refuse 'pain,'

Dems have accepted it with equanimity.

[RichGirl]

17. BTW....

The republicans wanting to delay Obamacare for a year is NOT because they think it will be bad for the country. It's because they know it will be a good program, like medicare and social security and people will love it and come mid-term elections the bulk of them will be among the unemployed.

Rand Paul, who has done nothing but bad-mouth Obamacare is now practically begging for a delay. I hope he is enjoying his short career in public service.

[Katashi_itto]

20. Shoveling crap out for a post. There is only one party that is using extortion, terrorism

and sedition and it sure as hell isn't the Dems.

[Gravitycollapse]

22. We've been accepting pain for a long time. Now it's time to reap the reward. So fuck that.

[PSPS]

23. Sorry, but that is more of the "both sides do it" nonsense.

[Ikonoklast]

25. Wrong. Not One Inch.

This is breaking the back of the Republican Party, and turning Teabaggers in Congress into political Pariahs.


Wait until the end of this week gets closer and Wall Street really starts to panic, the trickle of calls to the Republican leadership to make it stop will become a deluge.

[RainDog]

26. No. This is saying "No govt. by Constitutional Crisis"

This is the SECOND TIME they have done this shit.

The first time, the U.S. suffered, financially, from their actions - they are a danger to the U.S.'s economic standing in the world.

A first world nation cannot have an extremist faction gain any concession when they threaten to throw the entire world into an economic depression.

This is unlike any previous such political theater because these folks honestly despise their fellow Americans enough to burn down the world to get their way.

You don't negotiate with such terrorists... because, yes, they are acting like terrorists at this time, whether they or others want to admit it.

They are incompetent and not fit for public office. We just have to deal with the fact that they have been elected as best we can, and that means not rewarding their current behavior.

Maybe it's helpful to look at them like children throwing a tantrum.

[MannyGoldstein]

27. Lincoln should have freed half the slaves?

I think there *are* some absolutes in a functional government. One of them is that if you budget for something, you have to pay for it, too.

[melody]

29. When I was a little girl, my parents owned a 3000 square foot two-story home

They paid for it with my father's hourly job on the line at an aircraft factory.

That home now is way beyond the reach of my husband and me with two salaries. My son makes the same thing my husband was making at a job twenty years ago.

We've hurt enough. We have a little bit of an upper hand. The rich have much more to lose than we do.

[Savannahmann]

30. World War 1 began in 1914.

By 1915 both sides were so invested in victory, financially and politically, there was no way to achieve President Wilson's stated goal of peace without victory. As was demonstrated in Russia, Germany, and Austria, defeat came with massive political change.

The RW is stuck. Without something to point to as a victory, even some token, the elected will face and probably lose to a primary challenger. Then even more extreme RW nuts will be in Congress for the last two years of President Obama second term. So even by winning, we face a potential loss.

[MFM008]

31. LOSER'S

Don't get to negotiate.

[hootinholler]

32. Nice try

As a furloughed contractor, let me say this as succinctly as I can.

We've already taken our pain and it's now time to dish it back.

Go back to your friends or masters and tell them not only is there no deal but they said fuck you too.

[pinboy3niner]

34. +1000

Well said, hoot!

[gollygee]

33. LOL