Columbus didn't "Discover" anything. Seriously. The NA Continent was already discovered.

[dballance]

Please, I'm sick of the picture of Columbus as the noble explorer who "discovered" America. He was a profiteer. Well FFS. The North American continent was already populated with a thriving set of indigenous peoples who "discovered" it long before the great white man. It had long been discovered and populated. Columbus didn't discover shit. He was damned lucky he just happen to run into it on his way to Asia. Otherwise he and all his men would have disappeared into the ocean trying to get to Asia most likely.

Columbus, like all Europeans of the time, assumed he was superior to the natives of Haiti and the Dominican Republic and promptly began enslaving them. He opened up North America to the African slave trade. He and his sons were profiteers and slavers. No noble motives of proving the world was round. Just profit.

We need to stop telling the BS mythology that is so popular just because it's popular.

for more:
What Happened to the Indigenous Race?
The Rancid Myth of Columbus
http://www.counterpunch.org/2013/10/04/the-rancid-myth-of-columbus/

[Revanchist]

1. One could argue the point

that Columbus "discovered" the existence of the American continents in the sense that the majority of the European countries were unaware of their existence and it hadn't been visited by the Norse cultures for around a hundred years so they might of forgotten about it also. Then again, an argument could be made that Columbus accidentally stumbled into the region while attempting to find an easier trade route to Asia and it was just dumb luck.

Edit:

I guess I relate it to the "discovery" of a new plant or animal species, just because a large part of the population didn't know about it before does not mean it did not exist prior to it being found and there were probably indigenous people who knew about it, but it's called a discovery because it is newly introduced to a large portion of the population. Because we (as in America and Europe) tend to base history around what is important to white Europeans I can understand why they claim that Columbus discovered America, even if it is not entirely the truth.

[dballance]

2. I Think It's Insulting to the Indigenous Peoples to say "Discovered" the way it's said now.

One could certainly argue that Columbus discovered the existence of the Caribbean and the N. American continent in the sense they were unknown to the Europeans. I'll grant that.

Unfortunately, the context with which "discovered" is used with Columbus is as if he discovered this vast area that had never been seen before - except there were natives. That it was this miraculous divine discovery. As usual, at the time, he decided Europeans were superior to the natives and set about enslaving them and wiping out their language, religion and culture. So it seems more like he discovered a vein of gold or other resource for the taking and took it. It was nothing more than a profit center for him. Not the vast "New World" that should have been respected and its peoples respected.

[Revanchist]

3. But you can't limit that philosophy to just the Americas

Europeans "discovered" a whole bunch of places, for example, India, Japan, and Australia, that were already well known by the people who lived there. I'm not defending Columbus, but he wasn't the first, nor was he the last to exploit the people and resources of the land that he "discovered".

[Scootaloo]

5. It's an artifact of eurocentric history

Europe "discovers" things. And the people Europeans "discover" then graciously "give" the Europeans things like tomatoes or funny words, or what have you.

It's a narrative where the whole world was just idling by, hoping for a white guy they could pay tribute to.

[eShirl]

7. Isn't it time we (US) dropped the Eurocentric mindset after all these centuries?

It seems a bit overdue to me.

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

4. Next you'll claim that Coronado didn't discover the Grand Canyon

Until he arrived, nobody knew about that big hole in the ground.



Edit to add: anyway, everyone knows America was discovered by St Brendan the Navigator, sailing from Ireland.

[Coyotl]

12. Coronado did not visit the Grand Canyon. He went to Zuni and turned east to the Rio Grande pueblos.

Bryce did find the Grand Canyon, and his impression was, "Hell of a place to lose a cow."

[itsrobert]

29. He took a left at Albuquerque

He should have turned right.

[Coyotl]

31. He went straight at Albuquerque,

having approached from the west. He took a right at Zuni. He went wrong long before that.

[eShirl]

6. why is it even still a holiday? ffs

[backscatter712]

8. Columbus got taken back to Spain in chains...

...after the Spaniards said "I know we're conquering bastards, but what you did to the indigenous Haitians was FUCKED UP!"

[CBGLuthier]

9. he reported back to the dominant civilization on the planet the existence of another continent

Who gives a fuck about Columbus. We have today's problems to solve.

[Coyotl]

13. Spain was anything but the dominant civilization on the planet. Spain was totally uncivil.

Spain became the dominant military criminal organization on the planet and the number one genocidal force of human history, but not a civilization.

[krispos42]

10. He discovered something unknown to a major center of civilization and learning

Of course, since he was self-taught in his education he thought Asia was thousands of miles closer to Europe than the educated Europeans. But he was wrong enough that he did find land exactly where he expected to find it, only it wasn't Asia he found, it was a previously-unknown-to-Europe continent.

The other educated people of his time were correct; Asia's eastern coast was thousands of miles west of where Columbus thought it was.


The person that discovers something and brings it to the attention of the world is the person that gets credit for "discovering" it.



Having said that, Columbus was a sociopathic, sadistic murderer. Hell, when the SPANISH of 1500 arrest somebody for unusual cruelty, you know something especially rancid is going on.

[dballance]

15. What Columbus "discovered" was ALREADY a major center of civilization and learning.

Correct me if I'm wrong here - and I well could be so do correct me. I don't ever recall learning that the Europeans "discovered" Asia. Only that we more or less met another set of civilizations with whom we established trade. I believe the Asian peoples buildings and formal society that resembled European and Mediterranean societies, was not considered to be primitive as we considered the indigenous peoples of the Americas to be.

On Edit:

I think we would understand it to be offensive if we said some European "discovered" Asia with its already established societies and cultures and that's why I don't think we say that or are taught that. So it's similarly offensive to say the indigenous peoples with their already established languages, cultures and religions were "discovered." Just my 2 cents.

[Richardo]

11. Wha....?! Really?!?!

Geez I don't think I've ever heard that before. Oh yeah I did - when I got out of elementary school in 1968.

[pampango]

14. Exactly. Asians "discovered" North America thousands of years before Columbus and

made it their home.

[Orrex]

17. So immigants have been intruding into European land for millennia? Figures!

[pampango]

18. Damn immigrants. They've been intruding on "our" land since before "we" even discovered it.

[FarCenter]

16. No job is done until the paperwork is complete.

[Tikki]

19. Believe me, as a Daughter of the LAKOTA the lies never get past my Elementary School grandchildren..

nor never by our sons.

The truth is there and a well thought out presentation can teach the young ones how to listen to some
of the teachers' stories and hear the truth at home and still be able to get through this date every year.



Tikki

[dballance]

23. One good thing is we can actually have this discussion now.

I can't imagine trying to have this discussion even 10 years ago. People would be really pissed at us besmirching the "good name" of Columbus and this sort of discussion could probably only have taken place in academia.

This is one of the positives of the internet.

[Tikki]

25. Maybe it's because we live in a Liberal Blue Coast State, but none of our sons' teachers..

in the 70's and 80's had any problem with the boys giving reports, at least once in Elementary School and another time
in High School, about their mother's people.

They always mentioned that their earliest ancestors were on this Continent before their
European ancestors came here.

I bet you are correct though, that there are places that still want the History to go a certain way.


The Tikkis

[Zorra]

20. Yeh, time to stop perpetuating this lie, and stop celebrating the start of the systematic genocide

of the indigenous peoples of the Americas by sociopathic imperialist liars, thieves, rapists, torturers, and murderers.

[Taverner]

21. My prediction is that we will find evidence of waves of immigrants to the Americas

We already know of Vikings, Pre-Columbian Iberians, Chinese, Japanese and Mongolian migrants

I would be VERY surprised if there were no Polynesian migrants. We KNOW they got as far as Easter Island.

[dballance]

24. Yep, you're likely correct.

I watched a documentary the other day on how there are some theories emerging that at the end of the last ice age as the seas rose to overtake the sea-side civilizations that some from the Mediterranean migrated to the Americas and this is another good theory to explain some of the architecture found in Mexico and Central/S. America that is very similar to ancient building techniques on the Med side of the Atlantic. With the find of the Antikythera mechanism we've had to re-evaluate our thoughts about the ability of ancient peoples knowledge of the stars and navigation of the oceans.

[Taverner]

27. And the polynesians REALLY had perfected sea travel

In many ways outdoing their European Counterparts

[cvoogt]

30. Don't forget the anachronites

Time-travelers from Belgium

[miyazaki]

22. He was just a worthless rat then. Ya, ok. n/t

[dballance]

26. Well, yep. A self-centered, profiteer with no empathy for other humans. So Yes.

Perhaps as a primer you might want to read this: http://www.counterpunch.org/2013/10/04/the-rancid-myth-of-columbus/

[Tikki]

28. History gave him more than his due, that's all...

Tikki