"The Americans used knives to dig the bullets out of the bodies"

[dixiegrrrrl]

I am watching Jeremny Schahill's Dirty Wars,
as he interviews Afghans.
Our military is doing the same thing there as they did in Iraq, and in Vietnam...killing civilians.
He is documenting it.

Dirty Wars is now on DVD.
Highly recommended, but a tough watch.

[upaloopa]

1. I hope you understand that one of the evils of war is

that civilians are killed. I am not discounting that fact. There are incidents where military on both sides murder civilians. There are incidents where civilians are killed unintentionally. There are incidents where civilians are part time combatants. There are times where civilians are forced to labor to support one side or the other.
Rather than focus on civilian deaths as if they can be avoided in a war zone, let's focus on all deaths and work for peace.
I am a Vietnam vet and one thing we keep in the back of our minds is that civilians are killed in war. We don't ever forget that.

[dixiegrrrrl]

4. In this particular incident

American troops came by helicopter at 3 am, shooting into the house, killed at least 2 pregnant women, killed the Afghan Police commander who was an ally, then attempted to cover up the deaths by digging out the bullets.

I am sorry to hear, from you, that it is considered so normal to deliberately murder civilians, and then try to cover it up.

I refuse to normalize the killing of civilians, the killing of allies, the night raid murders of unarmed civilians.

And I refuse to let you tell me what to say, what to think, and what is important.

[upaloopa]

6. Why are you misquoting me?

I can see you want to make this into one of the usual DU pissing contests and I am your first victim.

[Jim Warren]

8. Perspective was suggested

I do not think the poster was telling anyone what to think.

The subject line is sensational.

[Iggo]

16. Perspective was suggested....derailment was attempted.

Po-tay-toe, po-tah-toe.

[indepat]

11. Having lost my eldest 1st cousin in Vietnam, I highly respect and honor your service and

sacrifice. That civilians are going to be killed in war is inevitable in the best of circumstances, even if all parties strive to observe the letter and intent of the Geneva Conventions. In a recent OP, it was averred that 6.5 million Vietnamese had been killed, wounded, or made homeless as a result of American military action which imo raises the question as to how many combatants and how many civilians. I wonder how much thought our leaders gave to the number of civilians included in that statistic and just how many Vietnamese our leaders were willing to kill, maim, and make homeless in this small country long engaged in civil war, but wherein our calling was to stop the spread of godless communism and thereby keep the dominoes from falling. The late Barbara Tuchmann's 'The March of Folly from Troy to Vietnam' offers keen insights into the American experience in Vietnam.

[upaloopa]

15. In Vietnam there were few identifying characteristics separating

Vietnamese civilians from combatants during the Tet offensive. I spent those two months Jan & Feb 1968 in and around Bien Hoa. People were fighting for bare survival.
People feel the need to internalize a situation like that in a way that fits with their paradigm of war not having been there. I think you can't begin to have a true understanding of it without being there.
You can read on line what that time was like. You can't in retrospect understand it.
We need to work for peace

[upaloopa]

18. If I could relive my life as I would have wanted it

that war would not have been a part of it. I was at the wrong place at the wrong time. All of us kids had no idea what we were getting into. We did not start the war and very few of us wanted to be a part of it. But we were and that war was the same as all wars. That war was evil and I was a part of it. I live with that everyday. All I can do now is try to work for peace.

[indepat]

19. You did your duty for which you can be proud. In '68 as a naval reserve officer, I

began to wonder if we were fighting the wrong enemy, at the wrong place, at the wrong time, and for the wrong reasons: before that, I had never questioned anything big brother had done, thinking he were all-knowing, principled, and always did what was honorable. Looking back, I now realize our nation has spent trillions of dollars to pump up the MIC and exert global hegemony, all the while our infrastructure, standard of living, and job and food security have gone to hell in a hand-basket with the United States ranking at or near the bottom in almost all standard measures of qualify-of-life ranking factors. Moreover, unlike almost all the rest of the industrialized world, universal health care is anathema. Sadly our nation has evolved into a right-wing-soused society and the fruits of that ideology are ubiquitous.

[Gravitycollapse]

24. Civilians are murdered in war. The Armed Forces that employed you made damn sure of that...

In the Vietnam Conflict.

[KoKo]

2. Where did you get the DVD?

[dixiegrrrrl]

5. Netflix...

I had it at the top of my list for months, it just came out and I lucked out.
The book is also available.

[KoKo]

10. Oh Great. Thanks..will put it in my que.

It showed here for a short time in art cinema and we couldn't get to it in time.

[giftedgirl77]

3. We are not all a bunch bloodthirsty monsters

Last edited Thu Oct 17, 2013, 03:22 PM - Edit history (1)

who go around killing people for entertainment. As a Soldier who has deployed to both until you walk a day in any of our shoes don't just assume everything you see & hear is the only thing that happens.

[dixiegrrrrl]

7. I can assure you that I DON'T assume

"everything I see & here is the only thing that happens. "

Trust me on that.

[giftedgirl77]

17. Well when you make a statement saying

that according to this particular DVD we are nothing but a civilian killing machine. It's such a bunch of bullshit to even try & push such a load.

[Iggo]

20. Nobody said you were.

[grantcart]

9. here is a review from a leftist point of view:

http://dissidentvoice.org/2013/06/dirty-wars-as-self-indulgence/

The film ends and I wonder what he could have produced if he hadn’t melodramatized and spent so much time and film on close-ups. I wonder what he could have done if he’d read a few history books.

Ultimately, the film is so devoid of historical context, and so contrived, as to render it a work of art, rather than political commentary. And as art, it is pure self-indulgence.

And in this sense, it is a perfect slice of modern American life.

[KoKo]

12. Well..that's interesting. But, I'll check it out for myself.

I've seen Scahill on Democracy Now and read his articles. Anything that exposes our NeoCon Wars is worth giving a look to. Afghanistan and Iraq have gotten so little attention over here in our media that I am happy to view anything "melodramatic or not" that brings attention to what we've done over there.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

13. And, despite (or, because of) all those horrors inflicted, they lost...again.

Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you. Friedrich Nietzsche

[KoKo]

22. +1

[msongs]

14. what's a half million dead "civilians"compared to massive $$ for the military and corporations? punk

change

[solarhydrocan]

21. k/r it's just money.

[dreamnightwind]

23. K & R for Scahill

Haven't seen it, probably won't, either, trying to avoid such grim things right now, but I love the work of Jeremy Scahill. He's one of the bravest reporters we have, also very intelligent and articulate. Thanks for the OP.

[dixiegrrrrl]

25. The striking thing about the dvd vs. the book is

we see Scahill on film, and I was struck by his face and eyes...he has the haunted look which Chris Hedges described so well in
discussing the impact on him of 20 years of war zone reporting.
People used to call it teh 1,000 yard stare
Hedges names it...PTS.
Scahill said, at one point in the video, that being stateside did not feel "normal"
or words to that effect.
Haunting film, in many ways.

[dreamnightwind]

26. OK, you're talking me into watching it

I'll probably do so. Have seen him in interviews many times, and actually I kind of worry about him doing what he does, hope he's ok.