What if using size zero models to sell clothes is totally wrong?

[KurtNYC]

The pictures are stunning. Why don’t more companies do this? Perhaps designers are afraid that presenting their clothing as too inclusive and not aspirational enough would dampen their desirability. I believe Debenhams proves that theory wrong. Seeing imagery that reflects the world we live in and bodies that are similar to ours – the consumer – we’re able to see the real potential of the product and we feel included. By the way, did you know that people are actually more likely to buy clothes when they’re modeled on mannequins that resemble their body type?
...
If you know your way around the fashion industry, you’re familiar with the term “Lookbook.” Companies use lookbooks to showcase specific designs or a store’s upcoming seasonal lines. Usually, they’re filled with slim, caucasian models that have been used on runways and the majority of the fashion industry for ages. But Debenhams, a popular U.K.-based store, wants to be known for its enthusiasm for diversity as it is for its fashion-forward clothes.

In Debenhams’ recently released High Summer Lookbook, the company made the choice to use models that accurately reflected the diverse population of the world we live in. You’ll see models in a variety of age groups, ethnicities and body types. According to the company, it’s the first store of its kind to do so.

http://www.beautyexists.net/fashion/finally-a-clothing-store-uses-a-diverse-range-of-models-and-the-results-are-amazing/#sthash.jiAHcpbQ.dpuf

[SheilaT]

1. They also need to use some older models

who actually look like an older person. When they do have a token older model she will be very slender and far more attractive and photogenic than most of us are. I'd like to see a frumpy-bodied 65 year old (oddly enough, that describes me modelling clothes that I might buy and wear.

[redstatebluegirl]

2. I agree!

I have two choices given me by the fashion industry, i can buy clothes so young looking I look silly or elastic waist apricot nursing home clothes!

[pipi_k]

5. Elastic waist

apricot polyester


aughhhhhhh!!!!!

[cali]

9. I can't afford to buy clothes anymore

Makes me glad that when I could afford it, I bought classic pieces. I bought the same evan-picone tailored black worsted blazer over and over. It looked as good on me at 50 as it did when I was 20 and as good with ripped jeans as it did with a skirt.

[Rainngirl]

76. HAHAHA!

I'm okay with the elastic waists (I'm bigger and I hate anything tight), but I object to the appliques and crappy, overdone designs PLUS sequins that they seem to think that every fat woman is longing for. It all looks like cruise wear for the 80+ Arizona retiree set. Why can't they just make "normal" clothes a little bigger and charge a little more! Jeez. Idiot designers AND buyers.

[Ms. Toad]

77. They actually need to design clothing for the variety of larger body types -

which is not the same as the just making normal clothes bigger.

There are fairly distinct larger body shapes - and clothing which fits (and looks good on) one doesn't on another. I know one woman who loses 50 lbs merely by changing into shaped pants, because all of the clothing she wears is sized for her (large) belly to shoulders type. She is actually very slender from the hips down, so fitted pants and a top/jacket sized appropriately for the belly larger than bust which show her real weight - rather than making her hips and legs look as if they weigh proportionately as much as her top does - are much more flattering.

I, on the other hand, have large hips relative to my waist - and can't get anything that doesn't swim on my waist unless it strangles my hips.

[winter is coming]

59. I'd like to see some classic styles, and not just "fad" clothing targeted to very young women.

I don't care for shopping, and I prefer clothing on the practical side -- I'm far more likely to buy a garment that's comfortable and has pockets, as opposed to one that's supposedly "hot". People don't stop needing clothes as they get older/fatter, so you'd think someone would be catering to that demographic.

[polichick]

68. Skin cream ads are so funny - as if those twenty-year-olds have wrinkles in the first place!

[pipi_k]

3. I always end up cursing

the "Plus Size" catalogs that show clothing on size 12 or 14 models because it makes me forget that I'm somewhat larger than size 14 (although I used to be a size 9/10 twenty plus years ago).

So I buy the stuff thinking I'll look like the models and...well...I never do.

There are a few catalogs that do use larger models, which is nice, but one in particular I'm thinking of sells pretty basic stuff.

Sometimes a zaftig lady wants a bit of bling on her back, you know?

[Myrina]

24. What irritates me ...

... is that almost automatically, "Plus Size" means 'tent'. No waistline, no stitching, no detail ... just, a huge piece of cloth.

I'm plus size but mostly in my chest. The rest of my is curvy so yes, I'd like a fitted shirt that I can tuck into jeans. I'd like a sweater with a shape, not a big A-line that you could cover a grill with.

And I'd really like to be able to buy a nice pair of riding boots for winter -- but thanks to 20+ years of dog walking I have calves like an East German Speedskater, so normal boots don't work.


Sigh.

[pipi_k]

82. Do you find

that your feet have gotten bigger as well?

When I was a teen, I wore a size 7 regular width.

As the years (and pounds) added up, I'm now at a size 11 (Women's shoe) in EEE Width.

It's like my body has melted, with the extra tissue ending up in my feet and spreading across the floor.

Calf size is good. It's the Donald Duck feet that pisses me off.

[Myrina]

94. Yes but I figured it was because

i had a badly broken leg when i was pregnant & didn't wear shoes for a couple pivotal months when my center of gravity & weight were shifting, because when the casts came off & i had to buy sneakers for rehab, suddenly they were 9 wides (they were previously 8 averages).

[tblue37]

96. Have you looked at so-called "wide calf" boots?

Google for them.

[u4ic]

111. I have these

http://us.shop.ecco.com/ECCO-Hobart-Buckle/310413,default,pd.html?dwvar_310413_color=01001#start=24&sz=24&cgid=women-boots

My calves are a smidgeon larger than regular fashion riding boots allow, and these have extra leather so they can be let out or adjusted if need be. They are pricey, but they look great and are very comfy!

[Myrina]

113. Oooh, those ARE cute!

Thanks!

[u4ic]

114. You're welcome!

[fitman]

4. The woman on the left looks normal weight

I would not consider her size 0..she is not skin and bones like most fashion models..The woman on the right is cute but too heavy for my taste..

Never could understand the skin and bones look..yuck.

[Marrah_G]

6. I think that is part of the problem

The one on the left is not normal weight and the one on the right is not fat. Our society has developed a very warped sense of what normal is.

We also have an entire gender who's value as a human being is constantly broken down to looks.

[fitman]

13. You have to be kidding me

The one on the left is normal weight-at least what we considered normal for years..and the one on the right is fat no matter how much you want to believe she is not.

There was very few women like the one on the right when I was growing up in the 60's and 70's and even 80's..and nearly all looked the one on the left.

Of course today the one on the right is considered normal as we have become an obese society

[bunnies]

31. Hell. The one on the left might have even been considered...

a bit on the heavy side in the 70's. And I dont find her to be "skinny" at all. Shes a good weight for her size, medically. But people like her, like me, are now considered "skinny" relative to the size the population has become.

And speaking as a woman, I can tell you that our clothing sizes arent what they used to be either. When I was 80lbs, in 8th grade, I wore a size zero. And now at 120 lbs, I can still buy clothes in that size. Not all brands of course, but more manufacturers than not have made their sizes bigger. I still have to shop, primarily, in the "juniors" section because of it. Size 0 of now is not what it was 25 years ago. I wouldnt even be able to get a leg into the clothes I had from back then.

[pnwmom]

42. Heavy? Only compared to Twiggy, who was

twiggy. She was considered skinny.

[bunnies]

46. I suppose that when I think about the 70's...

I remember the plethora of rail thin disco women. The ones so tiny their legs didnt touch at all. But yeah, twiggy was skinny. Too skinny.

[CrispyQ]

88. Clothing sizes aren't what they used to be - so true!

When I was 20, I wore a size 10 & weighed 123 pounds. Now, I weigh 145 pounds & I still wear a size 10.

Several years ago I went shopping with a friend, who was looking for grey slacks. She found two pair that both fit. One was really, really cute, but it was a size 8. The other pair was nice, but not as cute, but it was a size 6. She bought the 6. I told her it was an arbitrary number & that no one would ever know what size pants she bought. "I would!" she replied.

[bunnies]

99. Yes!

What the hell is it about that number that forces so many of us women into less flattering clothes?! It has the exact opposite effect as women see it. I can jam myself into a very small size that cause unseemly bulges and makes me look bigger... Or I can wear a larger size that has a slimming effect and fits well. Ill always choose the more flattering clothes but so many, like your friend, do the opposite. I really dont understand it. No one else is going to see that damn number!

[tblue37]

97. It's called "vanity sizing." That's what allowed a still overweight

Kirstie Alley to claim she was wearing a size 8 after being on "Dancing with the Stars" when in earlier times she would have been an 18, or at best a 16.

[bunnies]

100. Is that what its called?

It makes perfect sense. And I hate it.

[tblue37]

102. Yep. So do I. nt

[Ms. Toad]

103. Try buying patterns and sewing your own...

They are not vanity sized. A few years ago I had a hard time convincing my daughter who (at the time) wore size 7/8 clothing that she needed to buy patterns in size 14.

[bunnies]

108. Youre so right.

I have more than a few sewing machines though I dont get to sew much now due to an issue with my right arm. I have many patterns and Im NEVER under a size 10 when measurements are involved. I might be able to fool someone in the store but my dress form tells no lies. I think patterns are probably the one true method of sizing at this point.

[Gormy Cuss]

54. "nearly all looked (like) the one on the left" -- bullshit.

People in general weighed less but even that model doesn't represent most women from that era. Some women had bigger chests, some had flat chests, some had thicker waists,some had thinner waists, some had bigger hips, some had smaller hips while being within what was considered ideal weight/height ratios for the time. Models have never represented the average woman. They've always been a fantasy of the ideal.


eta: the woman on the left is not a size zero model unless she's 4'10"

[fitman]

57. I was referring to her general weight

and overall shape.. versus the one on the right...

[Gormy Cuss]

58. and your memory is faulty when it comes to shape

which was my point.

[fitman]

61. What a sexist comment

I'm a guy and I remember how women used to be body wise..the women on the left was the median..of course there were various differences, skinny no chest, big chest..you are taking this way to serious..I was just saying the one on the left was the basic norm versus 25-30 years ago versus the one on the right..

It's like saying cars were land barges 35 years ago while there was small Vega's and Pinto's and large Chyslers and Cadillacs and that is how people refer to cars overall from the era, land barges..get it?

Jeesh

[Gormy Cuss]

65. No, you said the shape was typical.

It was not.

As for sexist comments, having a guy tell me how women's bodies looked back, and then repeating a contention he used in the Feminists Group, that women were just taking something too seriously? You need a mirror.

[fitman]

67. I used the word normal, not typical

and I was comparing her basic weight, NOT BODY FEATURES, to the one who is overweight on the right..

and show me where I used the word typical..I did not..

[Gormy Cuss]

70. I guess you're taking this too seriously.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/typical

typ·i·cal
adjective \ˈti-pi-kəl\

: normal for a person, thing, or group : average or usual

: happening in the usual way

[fitman]

71. See polichick's comment

She get's it..

[polichick]

66. I agree with you - when I was growing up in the 70s more women did look...

like the one on the left.

My weight and height are the same as they were in high school, but clothes sizes have definitely changed - I used to wear a larger size. I guess manufacturers are trying to make people feel better by making clothes larger.

[fitman]

69. Thank You Please tell that to poster Gormy Cuss

n/t

[CrispyQ]

89. There were also not nearly the number of overweight kids when we were younger.

I remember the 'fat' girl in our class & she was not as heavy as the woman on the right. She was also an exception. There were less than a handful of overweight kids in my grade. After school, we'd meet at the tree house & play hide-n-seek & run around the lake instead of watching TV & playing video games.

I agree with your post that we have become an obese society. I'm about 12 pounds overweight & I look positively svelte around most women my age. That said, due to medication I was taking, several years ago I was 50 pounds heavier than I am now. I can tell you, it is not easy being an overweight woman in this country!

[no name no slogan]

116. No, larger women were there, alright...

....but seeing as they're not your type, you probably didn't notice them.

Women of all shapes and sizes have been around ever since homo sapiens realized they could walk upright. True, people tend to be heavier nowadays, but we're also taller and have bigger frames than we did even 100 years ago, due to better nutrition and greater availability of cheap food.

<puts on sexist pig outfit>Quite frankly, I find the one on the right more attractive than the "normal weight" one on the left, but that's just how I roll....

[fitman]

15. Men are also broken down to their looks just as much as women

We also have an entire gender who's value as a human being is constantly broken down to looks.

[tillikum]

21. if you don't believe men aren't objectified as much or more than women

then you haven't spent much time as an in-shape guy.

i've been fondled, squeezed, pinched and more than I ever thought possible. i've had a heavier girl start a fistfight (which ended with her getting seriously hurt and arrested) because i wouldn't give her the "attention" she thought she deserved and vociferously demanded.

funny thing is the men (boyfriends, husbands, etc.) never say a word either. it's like they can't compete and the best strategy is to let these women just act out without any consequence.

it's fucked up.

[fitman]

23. I agree with you 100%

I was posting to Marrah G whose comment was women are objectified and not men..

And yes I know what you mean..I am very fit and trim ..was heavy for some years and have seen a true difference after I lost weight and got super fit..I'm 51 and women hit on me way more now than when I was young and athletic.

[tillikum]

27. all good. im not talking about hitting on you, im talking straight sexual assault.

god forbid you run into a bachelorette or birthday party. it's like you pour in a little booze and all self control goes out the window. they can't control themselves at all.

[fitman]

29. You must have a face of a god or one heck of a party you are going to

Last edited Mon Oct 21, 2013, 12:05 PM - Edit history (1)

I'm very fit-6-2 195 lbs 32 inch waist, above average facially but far from hot and don't get fondled or groped..but get looks and have been flirted with but that is as far as it goes. I'm also happily married so nothing goes past that.

[tillikum]

37. lol. not really. i get told i'm pretty masculine looking though *shrug*.

the one who got arrested was drunk and when i politely said no thanks to her generous but unsolicited offer of oral sex (bachlorette party) in front of her friends, she picked up a fence block and hit me in the back with it when i walked away.

its really about attitude more than looks i think. lol. i suppose in both getting hit on and hit lolol.

[PasadenaTrudy]

41. You two

are cracking me up!

[tillikum]

44. im a giver by nature so...you're welcome!

[nolabear]

87. Me too!

[Nevernose]

86. Just look at the magazine rack

Or go to a support group for depressed teens and count by gender, or ask the victims of bullying. It's all the same these days, male and female.

Madison Avenue is going to sell their products and they don't give a shit who they hurt -- male or female -- in the process.

[RedCappedBandit]

19. The woman on the left looks perfectly normal to me.

[sinkingfeeling]

20. Here's what a size 0 model looks like:

http://hubpages.com/forum/topic/26112

Literally, Size Zero denotes the vital statistics of 31-23-32 (a general assumption), the size of a pre-pubertious girl. Ultra skinniness is touted as not just attainable, but a must-get goal by not just the hay-day girls but the women too. Thin is in and Size Zero is the envy of all women.

http://www.lovepanky.com/women/fashion-and-beauty-guide-and-tips/size-zero-the-obsession-of-a-model

[Myrina]

25. That is foul.

She looks like she just escaped from Birkenau.

[Triana]

35. O_o

Ugh.

[L0oniX]

39. This is what you look like after getting out of an NSA prison.

[polichick]

72. So sad!

[GreenStormCloud]

95. She looks like a walking skeleton, and Halloween is coming up.

With a little body paint she could do great on Oct, 31.

[FarCenter]

119. She's probably a 5' 10" size 0; a 5' 4" size 0 would look different

Modern size 0 clothing, depending on brand and style, fits measurements of chest-stomach-hips from 30-22-32 inches (76-56-81 cm) to 33-25-35 inches (84-64-89 cm).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Size_zero

Taking the midpoint of the size ranges:
31.5" bust
23.5" waist
33.5" hips

That's a bit flat-chested, but not way off from the "ideal" 36-24-36 in the waist and hips for a 5' to 5' 5" 20-year old.

[NoOneMan]

52. She's bigger than my wife

Looks like a healthy, normal size. Maybe 16-20% bodyfat

Now the one on the right who isn't "fat" as you say...what would you think her bodyfat percentage is?

[Quantess]

120. They both look normal weight to me, and to most people, I would imagine.

They both look like they have a healthy weight.

[pipi_k]

12. Yah, skin and bones...

Looks like one good squeeze will break them in half like a brittle stick.

[Xyzse]

28. I don't know.

I can onsider myself fit but, the one on the right is yum.

Ahem... I mean... I love curves.

The one on the left, you're right is not skin and bones, but still too skinny for me. I guess she is what can be considered "normal" non-average weight.

I have to agree that perception nowadays that the one on the left is not considered "normal" by many, but historically you're right. That is what can be considered as normal healthy.

However, I still don't agree with BMI and consider BMI damaging. They really should deal more on waist measurements instead.

[Triana]

30. That's what I thought. Woman on the left is NOT a "size 0". She may be a size 6, 8 or 10. n/t

[bunnies]

33. I think the disconnect comes from the clothing manufacturers...

and the fact that womens sizes are bigger than they used to be. Im the size of the woman on the left and have size 0's in my closet. I also have sizes 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, and 7. It gives people a warped view of what size 0 actually is.

[Triana]

34. No doubt. I'm a about that size too (4,5,6)

I expect that 20 or so years ago my current size would have been an 8, at least. It's ridiculous.

[bunnies]

40. exactly.

I was a "real" size 0 in 8th grade at 80 something lbs. No way I'd even attempt to cram myself into the clothes I had back then. I have a friend now, who's under 5' and very tiny (not "skinny&quot just small, and she has to shop in the damn kids section these days. That, or seek out the few real size 0's that still exist. Ive never understood why some women get to hung up on a number that no one else sees anyway. Makes it such a pain in the ass to shop.

[pnwest]

50. Who gives a fuck about your "taste"?

No one was asking your rating on these women's desirability. The topic is kudos for using normal, everyday body types to model clothing to normal, everyday women. There are a lot more of us in this company's demographic than size zero models.

[blue neen]

64. Thank you for saying what I was thinking!

[fitman]

93. I was bumping around the comments and my comment

was about the article referring to the woman on the left as a size zero and I said the woman on the left was normal weight, not size zero.

As for theother woman..other posters were rating the woman's desirability in various post- said the woman on the right was "luscious" ..I just said she was not my "taste"... no big deal....I was not demeaning her....Guys like bodies like her and some don't and I'm one of them..

I'm still free to express what I find attractive in a female body and don't give a flying hoot what you think about what I find attractive in women..How's that?

[uppityperson]

74. "Normal" is not a term that is applicable. Both these women look fine to me.

[Warren DeMontague]

78. I think the one on the right is just closer.

[Ms. Toad]

104. My thought, as well. n/t

[roody]

90. The one on the right looks luscious.

[BlueJazz]

7. The Models are both beautiful in their own right. Even though each person has the right...

...to look the way they want, I've never wanted to date a stick-woman.

[JNelson6563]

8. Two beautiful women!

If I opened a fashion house I would have models in all varieties~~shapes, sizes, colors. I would happily design different types of clothes for different types of bodies.

Pretty much anyone can look nice, so long as they choose the correct cuts of clothing for their figure (and ignore trends!!).

People come in all sizes as do clothes. So should models.

Julie

[Vashta Nerada]

10. Yeah, the one on the our right is absolutely amazing.

I can see the ribs on the one on our left.

[Bunnahabhain]

11. I'm surprised no one noticed the size-ism in the photo

The thin model is deemed appropriate but the larger model is deemed to need a large handbag and a wrap around her waist.

[pipi_k]

14. About the large purse

on the larger model...

I think that speaks to proportion more than anything.

A large purse on a smaller model would overwhelm her.

A small purse on a large model might tend to make her look even bigger.

I'm sort of large myself and always carry a large purse to balance my size. A smaller purse just looks silly.

[Bunnahabhain]

17. The point is

a purse was deemed needed. Why not have her standing there with no purse and no wrap just like the other model? As you say the purse is about proportion. It is being used to make her look smaller. Let her show her size without down-sizing props.

[KurtNYC]

22. Not sure that I understand the staging of that photo out of its original context

The other pictures at link feature a wide variety of models, including amputees. If I understand correctly, all of the photos are taken from the actual catalog of the company, meaning they were cast, staged and shot to sell clothing in a manner in keeping with the brand this company creates -- an inclusive and affirming brand.

[KittyWampus]

43. you might be over-analyzing the graphic in OP. the model on the right is SELLING more items.

That's number 1. Number 2 is the sarong actually accentuates her hourglass figure. Number 3 is the diagonal lines it makes are also visually interesting.

[Bunnahabhain]

45. I went and looked at the pics in the link

You'll notice in a pic with a thinner model and a heavier model the thin model is unadorned and the heavier model is accessorized. I do not think it's coincidence.

[enlightenment]

18. I'm also a bit surprised at the staging of the photo

The model in the red suit is standing behind the model in the black suit, so in addition to overall proportion, the result is accentuated by scale.

It would be interesting to see their positions reversed.

[Eleanors38]

26. No problem with lady on right. Wrap? Don't need no stinking wrap!

[AngryAmish]

16. Having women of many body sizes is difficult makes production much more difficult

All skinny women are pretty much the same size wise but heavier women are all different. Breast, waist, thighs, butt etc can vary widely on two women who weigh the same.

When shooting a catalog or ad the company sends a set of clothes to the agency to make the ad. Then they decide what the ad will look like, the company oks the ad, then the model is hired then the ad is shot. With a larger model there either must be multiple sets of clothes sent (not so easy when there are only a few prototypes) then they must be fitted, etc. All of this takes time and time is money. For the plus size folks it makes sense but for everyday stuff where they are shooting ten women in four or five outfits a day then the production costs really go up. NOt every item can be resewn. Also, poor fitting clothes create more photoshop time which is very expensive.

[JoDog]

32. As a woman who wears a size 18

and thus is categorized as "plus size", I would not say it is "wrong" because that implies some sort of moral judgement. I will say that it is a bad idea to use only size 0, 2, and 4 models to market clothing. This is because of evidence that using models with a variety of body types and sizes result in increased sales.

That fact leads me to believe the reluctance to use marketing with plus sizes, or even just models at the higher end of the "normal" scale (like a size 10) has less to do with the company's profit and more to do with image and size discrimination.

[L0oniX]

36. Over wieght is the new normal in the US? Ask a doctor what normal weight is for your size.

I did and was told @ 6' I should be no more than 175 lbs. So what's with that?

[fitman]

47. A lot depends if you are a endomorph, ectomorph etc

Have seen some guys at 6-0 at 175 look skinny and some guys at 6-0, 175 look very muscular

[L0oniX]

49. Point is that it should be your doctor that tells you ...not some model picture.

[AngryAmish]

83. There is no such thing as endomorph, ectomorph

While commonly used these have no scientific basis. The history of these words is facsinating. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Somatotype_and_constitutional_psychology

It used to be thought that your body type determined your personality and a bunch of other things. The guy who thought this up was some Ivy League professor and for a generation most college students in the Ovies had a topless photos of them taken during freshma orientation. The old pervert finally died and his papers went into the Smithsonian - where anyone could look at them. I remember some guy from the Chicago Tribune wrote an article about it and basicly said he saw Diane Sawyer's boobs, along with a host of other celebrities, politicians etc. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ivy_League_nude_posture_photos

[fitman]

84. I was not referring to personality etc-was not even part of the conversation

But there are 3 different body types, endomorph, ectomorph and mesomorph..which deals with physical size.

deals with body size, frame, big boned versus small boned..

and was replying to the posters comment that one person at 6-0, 175 lbs can be skinny and another at 6-0, 175 can be muscular and that is why you cannot have a one all weight /height ideal...which is why BMI is innacurate for so many people.

[Egalitarian Thug]

55. Bingo! It's all a byproduct of the fantasy world that Americans live in.

My epiphany came decades ago when I saw some film that was shot during Ansel Adams' trip down the Colorado River to shoot the Grand Canyon series. These guys were in their 40's - 50's and in the breaking/setting camp shots were not wearing their shirts and they had the bodies that we associate today with athletes and models.

We eat way too much and move far too little, then we top that by driving ourselves beyond reason on a daily basis and take on stress, then shovel huge piles of greasy crap into our bodies trying to fill the lack of satisfaction most of us feel.

[Ms. Toad]

105. According to the BMI -

No more than 183. That scale works well for my body, but it doesn't for everyone's. My spouse would look significantly overweight at the top of the normal range for her height.

[treestar]

38. Always made sense to me

Who are they trying to sell to? If it looks good on a size 0, it may not look good on me. It actually makes advertising sense to use all different sizes.

[Javaman]

48. the irony of size zero...

my girlfiend who is very petite is a size zero and it's virtually impossible for her to find clothes in her size and "she'd be damned" as she is apt to say, to even concider the childrens isle.

She's 5 feet tall (at least that's what she claims and I'm not going to question her. )and weighs under 100 pounds.

[Blue_Tires]

51. what the hell is "size zero?"

that technically doesn't make sense...

[Cleita]

56. I think Olive Oyl probably wears a zero. n/t

[KurtNYC]

79. It is like having a guitar amp that goes to 11

[Blue_Tires]

80. brilliant...

[nomorenomore08]

107. "So why not just, y'know, make Size 2 smaller?"

[Cleita]

53. After my husband died, I gained weight until I became

163 pounds. I'm only 5'2". I couldn't find any attractive clothes at this weight and yet I saw a lot of clothes on the rack that would have been on a plus size woman, if only they had been made in larger sizes. Today, I'm back down to a small size. However, I heard Tim Gunn say in a interview that he was appalled at the ugly clothes for large women even at the pricier retailers like Lord & Taylor. He stated that designers are missing a whole market here.

[CrispyQ]

91. And on Project Runway, when they have a challenge with real sized women,

many of the designers cannot deal with it. A few season's ago, one designer was downright rude to his guest model. Many others express angst over designing for heavier women, when their guest models leave. Tim is absolutely right! There is a huge market for fashionable clothing for heavier women.

[Cleita]

92. I remember that guy.

He was a very limited designer anyway. He only had a couple of decent ideas.

[Number23]

98. I don't watch Project Runway but I remember seeing an ad for the show and the "designer"

was a young man who was absolutely FLUMMOXED by the fact that the model he was making clothes for had (SHOCK!! HORROR) actual BREASTS.

The fact that so many in the fashion industry are either repulsed or absolutely BAFFLED by a woman's body is all you need to know about how stupid that entire industry is and how it gives less than a damn about women. And don't even get me started on the number of men making women's clothes (and bags and hair care products and shoes and cosmetics and, and, and...)

[MineralMan]

60. Lots of catalogs coming to our house, since my wife orders

a lot of clothing and stuff online. What I've noticed about the catalogs for larger sized people is that the models in the catalogs always look no larger than a size 12 or 14. And yet, everything in the catalogs comes in way larger sizes than that. I always wondered how women choose clothing if the models in the catalogs look nothing like themselves.

People come in all sizes. I'd think catalog companies would sell more of their stuff if they showed them in their typical customer's sizes. They have the size information from customers they have sold to. Why not sell attractive clothing that looks good on their typical customer, rather than on models wearing the smallest sizes they carry?

Makes no business sense to me.

[cthulu2016]

62. 1) If true, then the problem would have fixed itself

people are actually more likely to buy clothes when they’re modeled on mannequins that resemble their body type?

Great. If true, then the problem fixes itself. The stores with bigger mannequins drove all the zero-sized stores out of business. If not true, then it is not true.

2) Do people realize how unusual the larger model is in that picture? There are a lot of women like the little model, whereas the big model is a rarity. Women that size seldom have that waist, and if they do they are very young and cannot hope to maintain that waist for long.

For totally unrealistic body image to which almost nobody can reasonably aspire, the plus-size model wins.

[LittleBlue]

63. They represent a fantasy

Size zero models represent a body image that most women cannot achieve. The next best thing is buying the clothes that they're wearing.

Models will never accurately reflect the world we live in. After all, models aren't supposed to be who we are, but who we want to be.

By the way, the one on the left is not size zero, she's just in reasonably good shape for her age. The one on the right is slightly overweight, definitely overweight for how old she is. Give her 10 years of eating like that and she'll have Type 2 diabetes and be on glucophage.

[KurtNYC]

81. That was CW but consumer research shows that sales increase when

the clothes are displayed on mannequins and models that are closer to the way customers see themselves.

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/extra/features/july-dec04/mannequins_11-22.html

The model on the left, I believe, is representative of women who are not 5'9" and rail thin. It is hard to tell how tall she is next to the model on the right but given the other pictures in that article I don't believe she is supposed to be size zero.

[JI7]

112. the one on the right seems to have most of her weight in the thigh and chest areas

which is not seen as unhealthy as having it in the stomach area(the beer belly look).

[polichick]

73. In Hollywood (and some other places), women have breasts like the woman on the right...

and butts like the woman on the left. Big business, buying body parts!

[idwiyo]

85. k&r Beautiful!

[Demo_Chris]

101. The author fails to understand the purpose and messaging of glamour advertising...

The point is not to be inclusive, but exclusive. The glamour model, in both expression and pose, is elevated above both the viewer and his or her surroundings. Often she fails to acknowlege the viewer at all, and when she does it is from a superior position, perhaps pleasant or indifferent, but always condescending. For example, look at the two models featured in the image in the OP. Neither are looking at the viewer as an equal.

The viewer, seeing the advertisement, pictures an imaginary version of herself transported and altered into an object of envy by the act of possession.

[Earth_First]

106. ...and for some designers, it's both physical apperance and socio-economics

Take Abercrombie & Fitch CEO Mike Jefferies for example. Back in May he claimed "he would rather burn clothing than see fat and poor people wearing his clothing line.

It's a sick, twisted sense of reality that many designers and fashion 'talking heads' portray to our youth, at ever increasing levels to even the youngest children.

Vain are those who view a woman, or anyone in particular based on their apperances, either by physical traits or what they clothe themselves in.

[DonCoquixote]

109. This op reminds me

of a conversation I had with a Muslim lady. It was in a College area, and people noted to her that many of the Muslim ladies did NOT wear traditional clothing. She said that to her, Western fashion was misogynist, so there was a feminist issue as well as a religious one. This OP shed a bit of light on that.

[DesertFlower]

110. i'm 72. my first job in '58 was in the garment center.

the models were size 11. when they sold the samples i couldn't buy them because they were too big for me. i weighed 100 lbs at the time. now i weigh 130 -- still considered thin because i have muscle. i have to buy size xl tops for them to fit me.

[SoCalDem]

118. Remember sample shoes?

Our salesmen always sold them to my aunt at the end of the season.. they were size 4.5.. What adult female these days has feet that small?

[DesertFlower]

121. lol. my mom was a size 5.

[JesterCS]

115. I'll take the one on the right, thanks n/t

[SoCalDem]

117. The one on the left (if she is the zero) would probably have been a sz 10 in my youth

The whole obsession with ever-dwindling numbers is ridiculous.. I long for the day when women's clothing is sized like men's...by the REAL numbers...in inches


The size zeros of today just need to wander into a vintage shop & start trying to wedge themselves into a 1960's straight skirt with a regular waistband & zipper.. a humbling experience when they try on what fits them, and then look at the size label