Air France 447

[quinnox]

(I'm a bit of a buff when it comes to plane crashes, I watch shows like aircraft investigations a lot.)

It was really strange that the co-pilot put the plane's nose in a steep climb position, and even when stall warnings sounded both he and the other co-pilot ignored the warnings, and didn't even acknowlege them. He kept the nose up all the way down until the plane hit the water. Hard to explain what happened there.

[landolfi]

1. There was a Smithsonian Channel special, I forget the name

of the series, but I think it's called "Air Disasters', on Flight 447. They came up with a cause, but I forgot now what it is. I think it might have been icing of the pitot tubes.

[Blue_Tires]

20. ACI link (and yes, I've seen all the eps)

[denbot]

2. Might not have been able to see the horizon.

In a plane few people can sense whether or not the they are on a level path without seeing the horizon.

[Laffy Kat]

4. But wouldn't they be on IFR? Why would they have to see the horizon?

Just wonderin'

[denbot]

10. My understanding is that if unsure, people trust their own senses over a instrument read out.

Especially while under duress.

[Laffy Kat]

23. I know that's true.

Which is why during IFR training students just have it beat into them to trust their instruments over their eyes or own sensations. The pitot tube blockage seems more plausible to me. I'm fascinated by these things, too!

[denbot]

28. My thoughts are the tube blockage was more or less a primary failure.

Most disasters are errors compounding on to other errors. With multiple system failures, it is very plausible the pilots became more incline to trust their own senses despite their training to rely on their instruments.

[cali]

3. Is it too much trouble to ask people who post ops like yours, to provide a link?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_France_Flight_447

[malaise]

8. Why? That was the last Air France crash

and the entire world knew about it.

[cali]

12. because it's a courtesy. and no, not everyone knows all about it.

[uppityperson]

19. I just asked my dad and he didn't know. Because it is polite and apppreciated. Thanks.

[malaise]

21. I accept that it is polite

but I'm surprised that people don't remember this massive crash.

[uppityperson]

22. I remember crashes, just not necessarily the airline number. Thanks.

[RiffRandell]

5. This answers most of the questions.

http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/aviation/crashes/what-really-happened-aboard-air-france-447-6611877

[Brickbat]

13. An excellent article. I hope the OP looks at it.

[uppityperson]

24. Thank you for that. Essentially the copilots stalled until it crashed. They didn't cooperate, it was

not clear who was doing what and by the time they figured out wtf they were all doing (and doing wrong), it was too late?

[Blue_Tires]

27. along with this:

http://www.bea.aero/en/enquetes/flight.af.447/flight.af.447.php

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

6. What happened was that the AF crew was not adequately trained

in recognizing what was going on amid numerous indications and warnings from the plane's ECAM. Since they had no visual references and some of the airplane's instruments had failed due to the icing of the pitot tubes, they did not recognize the airplane's stalled condition. In addition, the failure of the pitot-static system caused the airplane's computer systems to default from normal to alternate law, which caused the autopilot to disconnect and the stall protection system to deactivate. More here:

http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/air-france-flight-447-crash-didnt-happen-expert/story?id=16717404

[closeupready]

7. Nova (or Frontline) did a program about it.

The cause, as posited, was complicated involving multiple errors - pilot error and also plane design error. If I can find a link to that show, I will.

[snooper2]

9. Maybe they were trying to come in like they were wakeboarding

[jberryhill]

11. Tunnel perception

They probably had a theory of what was going on aerodynamically, and ignored indications contradicting that theory.

It's like the GOP strategery around the shutdown Everyone knew that it would be disastrous for them politically, but it's a common human failing to maintain a belief in the presence of flashing red lights saying otherwise.

[Ohio Joe]

14. And?

Is there some point here? What does your not understanding every last aspect of an air crash 4 years ago have to do with?

[Lex]

17. I guess it just popped into his head

to share with us. It is General Discussion after all.

[Ohio Joe]

25. Looks more like a hit-n-run to throw out some conspiracy

Hosts should be locking crap like this.

[coyote]

15. A software error...

Von Jeinsen's motion is primarily based on the expert opinion of Gerhard Hüttig, a professor at the Institute of Aeronautics and Astronautics at the Technical University in Berlin. Just over a year ago, Hüttig recreated the Air France crash in a flight simulator. In the course of the exercise, Hüttig noticed a strange anomaly in the plane's reaction once it goes into a stall. The trimmable horizontal stabilizer, a flap instrumental in keeping the plane on an even keel, automatically adjusted to push the nose of the plane skyward.

Hüttig, a former Airbus pilot himself, and other pilots present for the test were unable to push the nose of the airplane down and thereby escape the stall.

When the BEA released its preliminary report last Friday, Hüttig immediately zeroed in on data relating to the trimmable horizontal stabilizer. During the final minutes of flight AF 447 as it plunged toward the Atlantic, the flap moved from a 3 degree deflection to a 13 degree deflection, almost the maximum possible. "The phenomenon is startlingly similar," he told SPIEGEL.

http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/air-france-catastrophe-victims-families-propose-grounding-all-a330s-a-766148.html

[Blue_Tires]

18. That story was written before the final report was released

This crash was caused by the crew's inability to properly respond to a minor issue (unreliable airspeed)

[FreakinDJ]

26. Numerous confirmed incidence of pilots fighting faulty programming

On that plane

[Blue_Tires]

16. It was poor CRM all around

and a lot of small factors added up...the most experienced crew member was taking his mandated rest break, the PF and PNF were too slow to recognize the situation caused by a minor issue, didn't communicate effectively and were effectively "working against" each other on the flight controls...

[The Second Stone]

29. If the weight shifts suddenly to the rear the nose goes up and the plane crashes

I've seen a video of a 747 cargo plane doing this in Russia on take-off. You do not want to see that video.

[HipChick]

30. I fly about twice a week..

I can't watch stuff like this..