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Pab Sungenis

(9,612 posts)
Mon Oct 21, 2013, 05:24 PM Oct 2013

Something to think about before talking about a school shooting.

From my novel A Funny Thing Happened on the Way to Columbine:

“For the record, guys, I’m with Mick part of the way on this. I have no problem seeing the assholes that got away with beating up Topher pay, and pay through the nose. I don’t think I’d mind seeing any and all of the other jocks get it, either. But there’s one important thing that we’re forgetting.” I paused for a second, cleared my throat, and fought the effort by my stomach to push some bile up into my mouth to shut me up. Like Mick and Topher, and probably Whitey, I was mad. Really mad, and I had to force the logical side of my brain to take control. “And that’s one simple fact: if there’s one problem with school shootings, other than the obvious carnage related difficulties, of course, it’s that people never seem to learn the lesson.”

I stopped again, and looked over the three of them. Topher was glaring even worse than he had been during Mick’s screed. Whitey looked intrigued, as if he guessed where I was going. Mick just crossed his arms and defiantly prodded me. “Go on.”

“By all rights, Columbine should have gotten the message across loud and clear to kids across the country: don’t fuck with the wrong people or you will end up dead. It didn’t, though, and neither did the killings that came later, because people love victims. Because a couple of kids who were sick of being kicked around killed their oppressors, they wound up making themselves into the bad guys, and made the bad guys into victims in everyone’s eyes. People were too overcome with grief over the senseless bloodshed to think about what had driven the two shooters to do what they did. And for those jocks, having their blood spilled wound up washing away their sins as far as everyone was concerned. Don’t think about what they were really like, turn them into perfect little angels in everyone’s eyes. And, personally, I am not really in favor of giving the world of jocks any new martyrs.”


These shootings are tragedies, but they're preventable. And they're preventable by stopping our culture's practice of lifting up bullies who torment kids until those kids feel they have no choice but to take the law into their own hands.

The lines between victim and villain get very blurry in these cases, and until we start punishing bullies instead of ignoring, downplaying, and canonizing them, this is going to happen.

Until we start taking the sides of the REAL victims BEFORE they feel the need to pick up a gun, this is going to happen.

Until we stop making heroes out of oppressors and villains out of victims, this is going to happen.
18 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Something to think about before talking about a school shooting. (Original Post) Pab Sungenis Oct 2013 OP
Yes, kiddies, if you want to take a jock out Warpy Oct 2013 #1
Or why not actually come down on the bullies instead of their victims? Pab Sungenis Oct 2013 #3
The "boys will be boys..." "you know how middle school girls can be..." needs to stop. ScreamingMeemie Oct 2013 #4
The same attitude used to be used to excuse Pab Sungenis Oct 2013 #18
Both sides are real victims, in my opinion. ScreamingMeemie Oct 2013 #2
That's true Finnmccool Oct 2013 #15
I know it's a novel so I don't know context Blue_Tires Oct 2013 #5
Most bullies, justified or not, feel bullied themselves. It's a coping mechanism. Bucky Oct 2013 #7
Social safeguards can only do so much Blue_Tires Oct 2013 #9
I'm not sure I follow your logic. Bucky Oct 2013 #13
I don't believe that Finnmccool Oct 2013 #16
David Cullen's book was an eye-opener for me. ScreamingMeemie Oct 2013 #8
mentioned here as well Blue_Tires Oct 2013 #12
That's true, kiva Oct 2013 #10
It goes both ways. Given what I've seen as a teacher for the last 20+ years... Bucky Oct 2013 #6
I will take it a step further nadinbrzezinski Oct 2013 #11
Is that the case in NV? maxsolomon Oct 2013 #14
The teacher was killed trying to intervene. Pab Sungenis Oct 2013 #17

Warpy

(112,983 posts)
1. Yes, kiddies, if you want to take a jock out
Mon Oct 21, 2013, 05:32 PM
Oct 2013

and teach him one of life's harsher lessons, hurt him. Don't kill him.

The only thing a bully will ever understand is that he can be hurt, too. Once he learns that lesson, he's never quite the same. He always has to wonder which one of his victims will snap and put him into the hospital.

 

Pab Sungenis

(9,612 posts)
3. Or why not actually come down on the bullies instead of their victims?
Mon Oct 21, 2013, 05:35 PM
Oct 2013

Two kids "fight" in school, and under "zero tolerance" they both get suspended or expelled.

Too often school administrators look the other way when it comes to bullying, or downplay complaints about bullies.

If we started treating bullies as the thugs they are instead of rewarding them, maybe we'd stop them.

 

Pab Sungenis

(9,612 posts)
18. The same attitude used to be used to excuse
Mon Oct 21, 2013, 06:03 PM
Oct 2013

date-rape and sexual assault. Fortunately, our society is starting to move away from that. But it needs to go further.

ScreamingMeemie

(68,918 posts)
2. Both sides are real victims, in my opinion.
Mon Oct 21, 2013, 05:33 PM
Oct 2013

Columbine should be set apart in that it wasn't about bullying. Eric Harris was actually quite popular from all accounts. The media gave us the "Trenchcoat Mafia" and the bullying story. Eric Harris was a psychopath who hooked up with a depressed individual.

Finnmccool

(74 posts)
15. That's true
Mon Oct 21, 2013, 05:54 PM
Oct 2013

They were more bullies than bullied. Their victims were not jocks they were low hanging fruit to them.

Blue_Tires

(55,445 posts)
5. I know it's a novel so I don't know context
Mon Oct 21, 2013, 05:36 PM
Oct 2013

but I thought the "Columbine shooters were bullied kids who were tired of getting beaten up" -meme was LONG since debunked??

Bucky

(55,334 posts)
7. Most bullies, justified or not, feel bullied themselves. It's a coping mechanism.
Mon Oct 21, 2013, 05:39 PM
Oct 2013

And anyway, if there'd been social safeguards policing unwarranted peer aggression in place, the Columbine shooters would not have occurred. That sort of violence does not happen in a vacuum.

Blue_Tires

(55,445 posts)
9. Social safeguards can only do so much
Mon Oct 21, 2013, 05:47 PM
Oct 2013

Adam Lanza was bullied in elementary school, too...That doesn't excuse him gunning down a bunch of kids as a 20-year-old...

Finnmccool

(74 posts)
16. I don't believe that
Mon Oct 21, 2013, 06:00 PM
Oct 2013

both of those guys hid it very well
One was a master con artist a Eddie Haskell on steroids

kiva

(4,373 posts)
10. That's true,
Mon Oct 21, 2013, 05:49 PM
Oct 2013

but there are still a lot of people who don't seem to know that; every time there's a school shooting - which is too often, even once is too often - there are always posts about Columbine and bullying. It may have become so ingrained into our common consciousness that it has replaced the truth

Bucky

(55,334 posts)
6. It goes both ways. Given what I've seen as a teacher for the last 20+ years...
Mon Oct 21, 2013, 05:37 PM
Oct 2013

Bullies are responsible for far more many deaths than the retaliation of bullying victims.

 

nadinbrzezinski

(154,021 posts)
11. I will take it a step further
Mon Oct 21, 2013, 05:50 PM
Oct 2013

it is not just the kids. We live in a culture that idolizes bullies, period.

maxsolomon

(34,733 posts)
14. Is that the case in NV?
Mon Oct 21, 2013, 05:54 PM
Oct 2013

he killed his math teacher. was he aiming at bullies?

it's probably too soon to know.

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