the no-good do-nothing OWS losers have

[Agony]

managed to abolish $12,397,317 of personal medical debt

01.23.2013

$1,119,209.20 abolished
Type Medical
Number of Debtors 1064
Average Debt/Debtor $903.40

11.09.2012

$100,145.75 abolished
Type Medical
Number of Debtors 44
Average Debt/Debtor $2276.04

http://rollingjubilee.org

there are good people in the world.

Agony

[NuclearDem]

1. But I thought they were just lunatic libertarian hippies with drum circles.

[sabrina 1]

13. Sad to say that here on DU I have seen a few anti OWS

commenters. It absolutely makes no sense that any Democrat would not be supportive of OWS. They EPITOMIZE what Democrats claim to be.

Bravo OWS! We love you! Well, we Dems love you, the far Right, well who cares what they think anyhow?

[AtheistCrusader]

21. I've even seen some conservatives speak well of them.

Not many, but a few. The kind that are conservative, but don't watch Fox Snooze either. They didn't get beaten about the head and neck with one or two incidents blown out of all proportion for weeks on end.

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

22. Perhaps they are not really Democrats?

[KG]

58. they didn't like OWS because it wasn't an obama / dem party love-in.

[NuclearDem]

62. Bingo.

Occupy refused to be coopted by the Democrats, and now the party loyalists find any excuse to rag on them.

[SammyWinstonJack]

63. +1.

[melody]

66. Imagine that -- people who prefer Democrats on Democratic Underground!

I say that as someone who thinks OWS worthwhile.

[bvar22]

68. Solidarity!!

[Hotler]

79. I've been told over and over and over here that...

mass protest will never work.

[SeattleVet]

16. Speaks volumes...

[RoccoR5955]

64. Many of us KNOW we were correct.

We go on and keep preaching to the choir, or deaf ears.
Many do actually do things, but we don't have the resources that the rich have.

[lunasun]

2. Awesome & should be front page news!!!

[Squinch]

3. This is such a genius idea. It gives me hope.

[SammyWinstonJack]

4. rec!

[Agony]

5. for Change has come... I could not help but think of Sam Cooke, thanks for the rec

Last edited Tue Oct 22, 2013, 11:51 PM - Edit history (1)

[Zorra]

6. Oh, I bet the DU Anti-Justice Movement Committee is gonna be furious about that. nt

[sabrina 1]

14. Lol, they will ignore this thread. I love it when they try to claim that OWS is

dead. I wonder if they know how much they reveal about THEMSELVES when they expose their opposition to a totally Democratic Movement? It truly does expose them which is why I always engage them, to learn their 'talking points' which are always the same. 'They have no message' 'the have no leaders' etc etc.

OWS is going strong and doing incredible work.

[Blanks]

46. Occupy is non-political...

Or whatever word describes 'not in support of a particular party'. It may be a democratic movement, but it isn't a movement supporting democratic candidates.

That's because they see that the democrats are beholden to large donors as well, but still - their efforts should be applauded. Getting money out of politics is the goal (or should be) of us regular voters.

[sabrina 1]

55. Yes, and that was the most successful part of the planning, imo.

They are about issues, and what I meant was that the issues they promote and support are the same issues Democrats claim to support so it should be a perfect fit for Democrats, and in fact it is.

[Blanks]

60. It's a threat to the machine though...

If you are a cog in the political money machine, it could threaten your livelihood.

Just as if you work in a coal fired electric plant, solar energy is a threat to your livelihood (or it could be perceived to be).

I don't speak harshly toward those who are critical of Occupy because I understand what could be motivating them. The idea of people hanging around in a public place asking for money so they can eat doesn't appeal to everyone.

I'm just glad to see that it has segued into something more productive. I get the occupy sandy newsletter. I was first impressed with the occupy movement because so many people in the world were motivated toward doing something. Unfortunately the something that they chose to do - was (in a lot of cases) nothing.

[rhett o rick]

61. Many of those that deny, are afraid that if they acknowledge OWS, they will have to admit to

themselves that there is a need. They live in a denial bubble where life is good and their daddy will take care of them.

[bvar22]

80. The Bubble

[font color=white]......[/font][font size=5]Its not just for Republicans anymore![/font]




You will know them by their [font size=3]WORKS.[/font]

[Recursion]

27. About the fact that OWS has handed over $12 million back to the 1%?

I don't know about "furious", but certainly puzzled.

EDIT, in fairness, they only directly handed $600K or so back to the 1%; the rest we're all giving them because they write the bad debt down.

[Dragonfli]

30. yeah, buying debt from predatory collection agencies for pennies on the dollar really sucks

to guys that love the predators.

I feel for ya man, you haz a real sad.

[Recursion]

32. It's the same problem with people who "buy" Sudanese slaves to set them free

It props up the market for the bad debt/human trafficking

Yes, I know, the point of a jubilee, prodigal son, etc...

[Dragonfli]

34. I know you are sad because some people were relieved of debt, but did not know

that you thought it would be as bad as an attempt to free a slave, you are really tore up about this aren't you?

[Recursion]

36. It must be a very small worldview that can only attribute disagreement to immorality

I don't think rewarding predatory lenders is a good idea. I could be like you and say "you apparently do", since you're applauding an action that did that, but I'm not going to. I'm going to point out that we're focusing on different aspects of the same action, and not make facile assumptions about your inhumanity.

You should try it some time.

[Dragonfli]

37. My world view is actually a bit too expansive, I AM closed to conservative ideas however

you do have a point there, but it is who I have become, perhaps someday I'll change.

I do not equate your belief that leaving debt in the hands of usury predators is preferable to buying it for pennies on the dollar and relieving the prey of the never ending interest with "immorality", more accurately, "amorality".

Many believe that relieving debt and perpetual interest is wrong, but few for immoral reasons, most for the same reasons that drive corporate thought, the belief that profit, even perpetual usury profit has nothing to do with morality but rather is just business.

I think usury corporations and those that would keep them as owners of perpetual debt are simply amoral bussiness minded fiscal conservatives.

[Recursion]

50. I was wrong. I didn't realize how deep the discount was

When I first ran across the jubilee idea (2011? It wasn't even called "rolling jubilee" yet; I do some work on foreign debt jubilee advocacy and they came to a meeting we had) it wasn't based on buying the already-marked-down debt, but just buying up predatory mortgages. This is a much better idea. As long as the original lenders are taking a large hit this isn't contributing to the problem.

Sorry.

[Agony]

73. earlier this morning i wanted to

but didn't have time to flame the hell out of you... so...

Thank you for acknowledging that RollingJubilee actually spent

$28,079 to retire $1,061,364.34 of collectible medical debt.

Cheers,
Agony

[Zorra]

47. Well, you don't need to be puzzled anymore. Believe it or not, there are actually

some people in this world who are genuinely kind, and who don't believe that amassing wealth at any cost is the sole reason for their existence.

Occupy has found a clever way to be nice to people suffering from stress debt by relieving them of the debt, and the stress.

So now you know, and you don't have to be puzzled about this anymore.

[sabrina 1]

51. Thank you. OWS has done some incredible things for the people. More

in their two years of existence than Congress over the past decade in many ways.

Thank you for explaining this to those who try so hard to denigrate anything that benefits ordinary people that is done FOR the people BY the people as it should be.

[marmar]

54. k/r

[Agony]

75. Thanks

I could not have formulated it as well as you have done.

Cheers,
Agony

[NealK]

77. Well said.

[1000words]

7. The "Move Your Money" campaign alone made OWS relevant

It's not a coincidence the Feds stopped ignoring them and clamped down, following its success.

[Liberal_in_LA]

8. ows groups have paid off student loans also

[Agony]

9. Rolling Jubilee current update

For those interested in more information about what RollingJubilee is up to, the following is from the "parent" of RollingJubilee, StrikeDebt.org http://strikedebt.org/an-update-on-the-rolling-jubilee-2/

SEPTEMBER 25TH, 2013

An Update on the Rolling Jubilee

Statement from The Rolling Jubilee Fund legal team:

September 24, 2013

We have been advising the founders of The Rolling Jubilee Fund since August 2012. We have worked with them in connection with entity formation, corporate governance and related issues, including transactional and corporate matters.

We invited David Miller from Cadwalader onto the legal team as pro bono tax counsel after he was kind enough to volunteer his services in this regard.

We have reviewed the September 23 Naked Capitalism blog post by Susan Webber (who writes under the pseudonym Yves Smith) and frankly are dismayed by the apparent effort to discredit one of the most practical, potentially high-impact, constructive initiatives to have emerged from the Occupy movement.

The Rolling Jubilee Fund has a perfectly standard and unremarkable structure for its corporate governance. What is remarkable is the transparency that has been demonstrated. Minutes of board meetings as well as The Rolling Jubilee Fund financial policies have been posted on the website. Details of debt buys and purchase agreements are also available for download directly from the website. The names of the individual board members are in boldface. The Fund’s decision to engage in a structured roll-out is based upon legal and public relations considerations that have been fully vetted.

The Board has a horizontal structure, in keeping with the non-hierarchical principles of the Occupy movement. No actions are taken, nor are any funds expended, without the approval of the Board. The Rolling Jubilee Fund board members consult with the Rolling Jubilee Working Group, which in turn works closely with the OWS Strike Debt collective. As a result of its completely voluntary transparency, The Rolling Jubilee Fund has welcomed the scrutiny of the entire blogosphere.

We are proud to have worked with of the founders of The Rolling Jubilee Fund. These young people have developed a project that is bold and brilliant and brazen. Every step along the way, they have sought advice from us and our colleagues to ensure that what they are doing is squarely within the law. One would think that those who are concerned with the worst abuses of our economic system would support such initiatives. Constructive criticism is always welcome. We question the motivation of those who make allusions to impropriety without citing a single example of any specific questionable action.

In any corporate structure, there is a theoretical possibility that a principal could abuse his/her power. In the case of The Rolling Jubilee Fund, those of us closely involved know that this has not occurred here.

Deborah Hrbek

Margaret Ratner Kunstler

Hrbek Law LLC

www.hrbeklaw.com
On November 15, 2012 Strike Debt launched the Rolling Jubilee initiative through which we purchase debt for pennies on the dollar. But instead of collecting on that debt like a debt collector would, we abolish it.

After the last announcement of the $1.1 million medical debt that we abolished in March, the Rolling Jubilee team got to work researching and vetting additional portfolios. This is a time-intensive process but we’d rather do it right than do it quickly. Once we purchase the portfolios we then have to go through the process of contacting the debtors and planning a media and education strategy and organizing campaign. That’s the stage we are in right now. One of the goals of the Rolling Jubilee is to help spark a debt resistance movement while helping each other along the way. There is some excellent, tough legislation aimed at the debt buying industry that has recently passed in California and we might like to champion such legislation elsewhere. We are also in conversation with allies in other parts of the country about how we can work with them. All of this takes time. And this is an all-volunteer project.

After the telethon, we made a public promise to abolish at least 11 million dollars of medical debt with the money raised. Although we haven’t announced the details of our most recent purchases yet, we are very proud that we have not just met this promise but exceeded it. We are currently gearing up to make our next announcement in mid-November. Each debt purchase will be accompanied by full transparency reports (our CPA is in the process of preparing the latest one), just like our earlier purchases.

Yves Smith recently posted a critique of the Rolling Jubilee operations on her website, Naked Capitalism. When we developed our financial policy we sought to follow best practices and looked to some of the most respected nonprofits as examples. Smith raises some concerns about our Financial and Control Policies. Smith says that “ndividual board members have the power to spend significant amounts of Rolling Jubilee funds and make binding commitments,” which is simply not true. She also implies that board members can bind Rolling Jubilee to contracts that the entire board hasn’t approved. That’s not true either. The entire board of directors of Rolling Jubilee has always approved and will continue to approve all expenses and all contracts before they are signed. No board member has authority to approve an expense, write a check, or enter into a contract on his or her own authority without board approval, and no board member ever has. Given that many organizations authorize their executive director to sign all checks (even those over $10,000) without requiring a second officer to also countersign the check, our check signature policies are actually conservative. However, it is important to note that our controls are even tighter than the information on our website suggests, because only two board members are authorized on the Fund’s bank account. To reiterate: board members simply do not have the power to unilaterally spend Rolling Jubilee’s money. Nobody writes a check or spends money, even for a dollar, without the input and approval of the entire group.

In addition to this internal oversight we have an independent professional bookkeeper who volunteers her services and have hired a third-party CPA to produce quarterly reports and thorough audits. Please know that our legal and accounting teams have assisted us in developing our organizational structure and continue to advise us every step of the way. We are always open to adapting and improving our system.

We recognize that we have not updated the website in some time and have begun to do so. We will be sending out an email blast to our list soon. We have nothing to hide and look forward to our next announcement planned for mid-November. Supporters will not be disappointed. This kind of organizing requires slow and thoughtful work. We are determined to do this right.

Love,

SD

[Warpy]

10. Thanks for the reminder

I've been meaning to donate for a long time now.

This is a fantastic setup, buying debt from predatory collection agencies for pennies on the dollar.

This is likely the first of many donations, too.

[Agony]

19. You bet!

I donated to RollingJubilee in November 2012 and then kinda forgot about it!

Cheers,
Agony

[liberal_at_heart]

11. dead my ass. OWS is alive and doing more good than our government.

[daleanime]

23. +1

[WillyT]

12. HUGE K & R !!! - Thank You !!!

[Rex]

15. Awesome!

Although this OP will make a few DUers Sadz...it goes against their hatred of populist movements.

[Dragonfli]

31. It will make some so sad that it will result in a Recursive loop of sadness

[Rex]

70. HAHAHAHA!!!

I see what you did there!

[Cha]

17. This is wonderful accomplishment of, OWS!

[vanlassie]

18. But they don't have any structure! They don't have any leaders!

They can't decide what they want!

[TheKentuckian]

20. bump

[cui bono]

24. Wow! That's a lot!

Much more than I would have expected.

Good work!

[blue14u]

25. Doing the good work

as always.. Love OS and have been a follower

for over a year now!!

Keep on keeping on OS!!!!

:thumb sup:

[gopiscrap]

26. excellent

[Waiting For Everyman]

28. This is great, of course, but what I don't get --

is why can't a person buy their own debt for the same "pennies on the dollar"? If that's the selling price to an INVESTOR, then why can't a person buy their own debt for the same price? What's the difference?

There's no logic in this whole "debt industry" set up.

If OWS could arrange it so people could (anonymously maybe?) buy their own debt out, that would be awesome! And it could free up many more people. I really don't see why that can't happen, or why it shouldn't.

[Fumesucker]

39. Moral hazard of course

If people could buy their own debt for pennies on the dollar who would ever pay the full price?

/Teabagger

[TBF]

43. I love this comment -

we should buy each others student loans for pennies on the dollar and then pay them off. It would be hilarious and serve the "too big to fail" banksters right after all they have done to destroy this country.

[questionseverything]

69. the pennies on the dollar thing comes up after default

ows is buying bundled failed loans (as i understand it).....so they do not know what property is attached until they buy it

but i love your idea and think the bankers have been letting their rich friends do this for years

[Agony]

72. I get what you are saying

I think that the answer is that (as pointed out by questionseverything) the debt that RJ buys has been collateralized and individual debts are not visible until transferred.

however, that is just me babbling, here is what RolllingJubilee has to say on this issue:
"
Can you abolish my debt?
There is no way to seek out a specific person and buy that person’s defaulted debt. With 15% of Americans currently being pursued by a debt collector, looking for one person’s debt would be like looking for a needle in a haystack. Anonymous accounts are bundled together and sold as a whole. Before purchasing debt, there is only limited information as to whose debt we are buying. These peculiarities are part of the scandal that we are trying to highlight.
"

The collateralization of medical debt seems particularly heinous to me.

Thanks for your input.

[defacto7]

29. Big K&R

[Dark n Stormy Knight]

33. Oh, I heard they didn't accomplish a thing.

[Dragonfli]

35. Worse than that, according to one of the predator defenders, they did something bad.

Almost as bad as freeing slaves, (the defenders analogy, not mine)

[Rex]

71. I saw that...

[myrna minx]

38. K&R. OWS has also helped with student debt too. n/t

[DLevine]

40. That is awesome. Love OWS. Huge K&R. nt

[Enthusiast]

41. Yay!

There are good people in the world!

[xchrom]

42. du rec.

[TBF]

44. K&R nt

[annabanana]

45. I LOVE rolling jubilee!

Truely doing the work of Angels

[99Forever]

48. If only there was a major political party...

... with the moral character, ethics, and GENUINE concern for regular people that OWS has.

~~~"People say I'm a dreamer,
but I'm not the only one."~~~

[sabrina 1]

52. Maybe someday we will get that. It's up to us in the end.

We have to stop supporting those who do not support us and refusing to listen to the 's/he can't win so you need to vote for X who may not be the best, but s/he's better than Y.

[rhett o rick]

82. The Party is the Democratic Party. We shouldnt abandon it, we need to reclaim it. nm

[hack89]

49. Glad they found their niche. nt

[G_j]

53. but they don't have a "leader"!

>OWS

[eilen]

56. Not too long ago there was this discussion about OWS

on Bill Maher, in respect to the Tea Party. The consensus was that the Tea Party was more successful as they became this big political movement that resulted in elections to office and a loud obnoxious voice in politics. This was contrasted with OWS which was considered unsuccessful in that there were not clear goals, the movement was too diffuse, they did not harness any political power, etc. etc. Someone maintained that the Tea Party had an inordinate amount of financial support from Koch supported groups and positive press from news outlets. Someone even said that they had some similar beefs-- in respect to bailing out banks. Part of the reason they talked about this is because there was an OWS supporter on the panel who put a Democratic government rep to task.

I think that the other panelists as well as Bill Maher and probably a good number of members here totally misunderstood the purpose and goals of OWS. Actually, OWS is accomplishing more than the Tea Party. The Tea Party has reps in Congress and the Senate who have managed to grind government to a halt multiple times but have they accomplished anything real? How many people have they helped? It seems to me that getting involved in government is a good way to not get anything done. Meanwhile, I think OWS has helped more people keep their homes than Obama's mortgage relief program. It has helped more people and communities after Sandy, it has brought more public consciousness to the Tar Sands impact on the environment in the US and Canada and supported the native people and has helped more people in a tangible way with debt forgiveness. The people of OWS and the movements it created have brought attention to the wage slavery for food workers, working with existent democratic institutions known as labor unions; worked with church groups in N. Carolina to expose and protest the election law changes and social program cuts. It has also educated more people on democratic forms of commerce, banking, governing, and industry. Those were teach-ins in almost every public square. Educating people on new economic models --telling folks that they do not have to be victims in the imposed Friedmanesque economic system our government has embraced. We can look at things differently, reassess our values and build our own institutions and we don't need permission or a grant from a banker or a congressman. We can do it ourselves. It is punk rock.

[niyad]

57. k and r and thanks for the update

[ck4829]

59. Great news! K&R.

[RoccoR5955]

65. Those lousy good-for-nothings

Are going to actually help PEOPLE!
They would never make it in the corporate world.

Good on them!

[navarth]

67. kicking this great post, and going to contribute.

most worthy cause to come along in quite a while. thanks for posting.

[Xyzse]

74. Good on them.

That was well done, and congratulations.

It is nice to see some action through different parts of OWS.
At some point, I would like to see some of those that took lead in doing this project running for office.

[fascisthunter]

76. Awesome! People Power! What a Democracy is all about!

[NealK]

78. K&R

That's great!

[blackspade]

81. Occupy FTW!