Bullying may have motivated Nevada school shooter

[theHandpuppet]

http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-middle-school-shooting-20131023,0,5746598.story#axzz2iY3lqyof

The Los Angeles Times
Bullying may have motivated Nevada school shooter
By Melanie Mason and David Zucchino
October 22, 2013, 10:05 p.m.

SPARKS, Nev. — He was dressed like any other student at Sparks Middle School: standard khaki pants and a Sparks sweat shirt. He was tall for a middle schooler, with dark, spiked hair, and he held a Ruger 9-millimeter semiautomatic handgun in his hand.

The 12-year-old boy pointed the weapon at about 30 terrified students huddled in a corner near an outdoor school basketball court early Monday. He locked eyes with eighth-grader Omar Lopez, who was nearby.

"You guys ruined my life, so I'm going to ruin yours," he told the group, Omar said.

The boy fired — not at the students but at a window, shattering the glass with two quick shots, witnesses said. He moved on, but he had already shot and killed a popular math teacher and wounded a student....

MORE at link above

[Pab Sungenis]

1. Called it.

As long as we keep making saints out of bullies when their victims take matters into their own hands, we're going to keep seeing school shootings.

Zero tolerance for bullies; expel them. Zero tolerance for teachers and administrators who look the other way; fire them. Don't let kids think there's no other way to stop the bullies.

And stop pretending like the bullies who ARE killed by their victims are perfect little angels. Most of them weren't. They were nasty little thugs who drove their victims to murder.

[ScreamingMeemie]

2. That article is excruciating to read.

[Beaverhausen]

13. So the penalty for bullying should be death?

Sounds like you are ok with what the shooter did.

[Pab Sungenis]

14. Not ok

but I understand it.

This could have been prevented if we'd gotten serious about bullying.

The kids shot in this situation were not precious little innocent angels. They were thugs. And Americans will still not learn the lesson from this shooting.

[Beaverhausen]

15. Plenty of bullied kids don't choose using a gun

I'm sorry he was bullied. I don't like bullies. But bringing a gun to a school and shooting people -really not ok. Not at all.

[Pab Sungenis]

16. But if we had done something to really stop bullying

it would never have gotten to the point where he felt he needed to shoot people.

The sad problem is that the real victims are driven to the point where they feel they have no other option but to end their suffering and end their tormentors. And in doing so, people see them as the villains and don't address the root cause of the stupid event.

End "zero tolerance" as we know it. Actually suspend and expel bullies. Tell administrators not to look the other way. End the "boys will be boys" attitude. End "your word against his."

And when situations escalate to this stage? PROSECUTE Administrators and the parents of the bullies for gross negligence.

[kelliekat44]

32. Yes, they are the one who don't have access to guns. nt

[nadinbrzezinski]

34. Until we as a culture admit we have a problem

this will continue to happen, like clockwork. Oh and the problem is far more widespread than just schools.

Oh and finally here is some food for thought for you, according to experts, including the San Diego Sherriffs department gang unit, bullies tend to grow up to become small and large time criminals. Why they like to intervene when they can. But then again, the Santana High School shooting was related to bullying. Don't worry if you have not heard about it. It's been over ten years, so it's quietly dropped off from major school shooting incidents.

[Blue_Tires]

24. So using that logic...

the female students at Virginia Tech could have prevented the whole massacre by giving the occasional sympathy fuck to the creepy loner sociopathic stalker, instead of letting his sexual frustration overflow into violent action...

[Incitatus]

43. Two different situations.

You don't have to be someone's friend, ignoring a person and going out of your way to cause them torment such as constant physical and verbal assault are two very different things.


Bullying is irrational and stupid, and killing someone for bullying you is also irrational. However, I understand the latter better. That doesn't mean I condone it.

[Blue_Tires]

22. Somehow I survived being bullied without gunning kids down...

[SummerSnow]

26. Me too. I don't condone violence...

I had a bully in school. Only way I got rid of her I had to fight her. I did and she left me alone.

[liberal_at_heart]

40. I have suffered from depression and never thought about suicide. That doesn't mean we shouldn't

be helping people who do suffer and do have those kinds of thoughts. This kid obviously suffered horribly, and something should have been done about the bullying. That doesn't mean he should have killed the people he killed. It just means we have a problem that we cannot ignore.

[warrant46]

27. "They were nasty little thugs who drove their victims to murder."

Yes they were !!! and in the old days a lot of these "Cowardly Bullies" got the snot beaten out of them by the "victims" older brothers who showed up and used some aggressive self help

[Pab Sungenis]

36. But today under "zero tolerance"

kids who defend themselves are the ones who get kicked out of school, not the bullies.

[warrant46]

39. Well I suppose

Although like USSR vs USA in the 1950's

The Bullies were "Deterred" by the swift sure knowledge that someone bigger and more violent would kick their ass for picking on a little kid.

[Pab Sungenis]

41. That's the problem.

Nowadays bullies know that there will be no retaliation. They're protected. Kids who fight back get expelled.

[warrant46]

42. And the system needs to be fixed

At almost 69 years old, I don't have a clue as to what might work.

It might take a cop in every classroom--( I personally would never want that)

but no one is willing to pay what it might cost either

(shrugs)

[Pab Sungenis]

46. It doesn't take cops in classrooms.

It takes a change of attitude by administrators.

It takes ending "zero tolerance" of self-defense.
It takes expelling bullies.
It takes ending "your word against his."
It takes not looking the other way.
It takes ending the "boys will be boys" attitude.

[ScreamingMeemie]

3. I don't think anyone is surprised (or should be surprised) by that.

[ejpoeta]

4. it usually is about bullying. the thing that gets me is so many schools

have assemblies and tout their anti bullying policy and then do nothing about kids getting bullied. well, it's your word against theirs. how can you prove it when they purposely do it when the teachers aren't around so they don't get in trouble. And the other kids who are also bullying or at least don't want to risk being singled out themselves aren't going to say anything or at least say, yes it happened. it is frustrating when my kids are being picked on and the school does nothing. My daughter hit one of the kids bullying her, nevermind it was a 5th grader and she is a 9th grader.... I do understand WHY she did it.... she said she didn't even ask for help this time as no one ever does anything. I told her it is not acceptable to put your hands on another no matter what they do. Who is the one in trouble? I am confident that other kid isn't grounded.

[Democat]

5. Who is the real bully?

He shot innocent unarmed people at a school.

[kcr]

7. Well that's logical

Ignore the problem. Nice way to make sure it doesn't happen again.

[Democat]

9. I am all for finding the cause of a problem

Bullying should be dealt with, but bullying alone does not cause someone to shoot up a school.

What he did was an anti-social behavior more extreme than bullying and it cannot be excused, regardless of the cause.

[Pab Sungenis]

19. Bullying is the problem.

And the acceptance of bullying by school administrators teaches kids that violence is acceptable. Which leads to the ultimate violence.

[warrant46]

28. From the Link

A tearful girl who said she was a friend of the shooter said she had seen the bullying.

"Once I saw people push him in the hallway," said Margielle Stewart, an eighth-grader


apparently -----What goes around comes around

[nadinbrzezinski]

31. I wish it was limited to schools

because then we could deal with it much easier.

It is not.

It is condoned and accepted in multiple areas of our society. It is endemic.

[ScreamingMeemie]

8. As a mom? And admittedly one who has to constantly pull her son into line?

As a mom who puts down hard and fast rules when he steps outside of them, thanks to peer pressure and the "way things are" today?

Society: school districts and parents who turn a blind eye to (and sometimes encourage) bullying behavior. Society is the "real" bully here.

This is a horrific, tragic event all around...that probably could have been prevented. Lip service and "zero tolerance" banners on school websites suck.

[tenderfoot]

10. The NRA is the bully for making it easier for a 12 year old to get his hands on a gun.

[hack89]

12. His parents broke the law

Nevada has a Gun Safe Storage law that should have prevented him getting a gun.

[tenderfoot]

25. Then they can go to jail with their child too.

eom

[warrant46]

29. Their "child" isn't going to jail

[tenderfoot]

35. The shooter isn't going to jail?

Okay. Juvenile.

[warrant46]

37. Nope=== he capped himself

The boy fired — not at the students but at a window, shattering the glass with two quick shots, witnesses said. He moved on, but he had already shot and killed a popular math teacher and wounded a student.

He shot and wounded another student before shooting himself fatally in the head, police said.

[Pab Sungenis]

17. He shot people who were tormenting him.

He was the real victim.

[bettyellen]

20. the "real victims" are dead. the perp had the mistaken impression that at 12 his life was

"ruined", and that is was okay to lash out in violence. Kid was wrong on both counts.

[Democat]

21. He pointed the gun at a group of 30 terrified students and shot a math teacher

According the article above. All of those people were tormenting him?

The actions sound like those of a bully.

[Blue_Tires]

23. So his goddamned MATH TEACHER "tormented him?"

What a fragile psyche...

[Union Scribe]

33. You're fucking warped.

This isn't the first time I've seen you lay out that blanket claim that school shooting victims had it coming. And that the kids st Columbine hzd it coming. You're scary.

[Pab Sungenis]

47. I'm scary?

Your bully apologism scares me.

What are you going to do to solve this problem? You don't want to tackle the root cause.

[Beaverhausen]

45. The teacher he killed was tormenting him?

Got proof of that?

[Smarmie Doofus]

6. As horrible as bullying is... it may be beyond our capability to entirely eradicate.

But it seems to me we CAN do a LOT about 12 year olds w. access to guns.

[Recursion]

11. Hm. People reported that (wrongly) about Columbine

Obviously it could have something to do with it (along with the incredible proliferation of handguns in the US), but these stories have a way of taking on a life of their own.

[Pab Sungenis]

18. People reported that CORRECTLY about Columbine.

It's bully apologists who have been doing historical revisionism.

ETA a few videos.

Or for those who want to look at the whole story:

[hunter]

44. My nickname in middle and high school was "queerbait."

Usually something like "get out of my way, queerbait." THUMP.

My personal victory in high school was when one of my tormentors called me that. I saw the vice principal watching and I whispered to the bully, "You want me."

The dude beat me good and bloody, which wasn't too bad. I was used to that.

Eventually I won. Soon after the school administrators let me quit high school for college.

My mom rejected the Catholic church for the Jehovah's Witnesses, and when the Witnesses rejected her for her political activism, the Quakers. Pacifism has probably saved my life. One of my grandfathers was a pacifist during World War II. They put him to work building Liberty and Victory ships. His choice, that or jail. He told them no way, he wasn't going to kill anyone. The police once beat him up for protesting the Japanese internment. My mom, a little kid at the time, was with him. Seeing the cops beat up your dad leaves an impression on a kid.

I'm a radical left wing Catholic heretic pacifist.

I think berserker is in my genes. Unlike the skinny squeaky weird kid I was in high school I grew to become something else. Not always a "nice" person, but I've never felt like killing anyone or myself, even in brief moments of bloody horror.

I do my best to avoid violence. I don't like blood unless it's donated, well labeled and tested in a bag, sent to someone who desperately needs it.

Professionally my wife and my sister deal with horrors almost every day. My mom's had jobs like that too. I don't have what it takes to do that.

[nadinbrzezinski]

30. We live in a bully society that condones the behavior

even when it should not. This is condoned by among other things blaming the victims when they fight back.

I do not condone violence but I am all but surprised.

One of the characteristics of bully behavior is blaming the victim.

[BlueCheese]

38. I was bullied at times.

I never thought about shooting anyone in retaliation. If I had done so, it would have been my fault for grossly overreacting to the situation.

Bullies need to be identified and punished. But being bullied is not a license or excuse to use deadly violence in return.