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cali

(114,904 posts)
Wed Oct 23, 2013, 09:10 AM Oct 2013

What Would an Ideal College Look Like? A Lot Like This

If you’ve been attentive to the growing series of posts here under the banner of the American Futures project, you know that Deb and Jim Fallows have been examining small, resilient American cities that are home to intriguing innovations and entrepreneurship. A few days ago, as part of the project’s recent focus on Burlington, Vermont, I took a look at two of the three great colleges there. Now let’s look in on the third, Champlain College. You’ll see why this one fits the project’s ongoing “American ingenuity” theme.

If you could design your ideal college from scratch, what would it look like? Mine would look something like the following. Students would acquire training that makes them immediately employable. They’d take courses in the liberal arts that would sharpen their skills in writing, analysis, and reasoning. And they’d graduate with some real-life knowledge, such as how to interview for a job. There’d be no tenure for faculty, but instructors would be made to feel they’re valued members of the enterprise. And administrators would constantly ask themselves “how can we prepare students for what the world needs of them?”

While you’re busy designing your version of the ideal, I can take a nap or go fishing, because somebody has already built mine: Champlain College. It is doing everything I’ve described and, in the process, is gaining the attention of the higher-ed world. The words I’ve heard used to describe Champlain include innovative, nimble, adaptable. A professor from nearby St. Michael’s College told me, with unabashed admiration, “Champlain is always asking itself What works?”

<snip>

A second component of Champlain’s undergraduate education comes through its required “Life Experience and Action Dimension” program, which has two parts: (1) some real-world education, emphasizing financial literacy and sophistication (developing a budget, making sense of credit cards, understanding how employee benefits work and why they’re important, etc.) and job skills (marketing oneself, negotiating business contracts, and developing skills in interviewing, networking, etc.); and (2) a community-service element that puts students to work helping Burlington’s needy and simultaneously broadening cultural awareness and a sense of engaged citizenship.

<snip>

Internally, the college seems healthy, too. There’s palpable energy and enthusiasm on this campus. You might expect the faculty to be angry or resentful about the no-tenure policy. They’re not. Several people, including Finney, told me the absence of tenure “has never been an issue,” a claim the Faculty Senate’s President, Laurel Bongiorno, affirms. Faculty members work under individual, multi-year contracts – a good arrangement most American workers would love to have.

<snip>

http://www.theatlantic.com/education/archive/2013/10/what-would-an-ideal-college-look-like-a-lot-like-this/280717/

31 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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What Would an Ideal College Look Like? A Lot Like This (Original Post) cali Oct 2013 OP
Without tenure, there is no freedom of expression. That part is not a good idea. leveymg Oct 2013 #1
+1. Tenure is ESSENTIAL. n/t Laelth Oct 2013 #4
baloney. they have multi year contracts cali Oct 2013 #5
Tenure is basically a guarantee of lifetime employment. It's essential to free expression leveymg Oct 2013 #10
That's exactly what it is. duffyduff Oct 2013 #30
Perhaps the administration at this college at this kiva Oct 2013 #19
It seems that you don't understand the purpose of tenure. n/t Egalitarian Thug Oct 2013 #20
Furthermore, I would add "tenure" does NOT exist in K-12. duffyduff Oct 2013 #29
Which is a deficit. Tenure is not a "lifetime job" and it's not perfect, Egalitarian Thug Oct 2013 #31
if it's a teaching college, tenure matters less, but I so smell academic capitalism zazen Oct 2013 #6
you're simply wrong. cali Oct 2013 #14
"maybe it really is a non-toxic environment" and "I'm suspicious" zazen Oct 2013 #18
So how do countries such as the UK manage just fine with no concept of "tenure"? Nye Bevan Oct 2013 #8
Do they really? leveymg Oct 2013 #11
That's the intention of tenure, but it isn't always the result. MineralMan Oct 2013 #15
Word gets around about the time-servers. leveymg Oct 2013 #21
Yes, of course. However, tenure is not the do-all it is touted to be. MineralMan Oct 2013 #22
That's no reason to do away with the tenure system. leveymg Oct 2013 #24
Well, since I didn't go into academia, it doesn't really matter to me MineralMan Oct 2013 #25
I'm seeing hard-working tenured folks forced into early retirement now zazen Oct 2013 #27
I made that decision way back in the 1970s. MineralMan Oct 2013 #28
I stopped at "immediately employable" and "no tenure" frazzled Oct 2013 #2
then you stopped too soon. Liberal arts are fundamental to the cali Oct 2013 #7
I didn't say at all they weren't first rate frazzled Oct 2013 #13
that you know family members who don't want to work in far away places cali Oct 2013 #16
I agree, it's a vocational school. LuvNewcastle Oct 2013 #12
not even close to being true. ack. cali Oct 2013 #17
I don't mean to put the place down, cali. LuvNewcastle Oct 2013 #23
this series focusing on Vermont that Jim Fallows and other Atlantic cali Oct 2013 #3
Whoa there. What about athletics? Nye Bevan Oct 2013 #9
1977 University of Vermont graduate here! cilla4progress Oct 2013 #26

leveymg

(36,418 posts)
1. Without tenure, there is no freedom of expression. That part is not a good idea.
Wed Oct 23, 2013, 09:16 AM
Oct 2013

Does anyone seriously think that Noam Chomsky or Howard Zinn would have survived as faculty without tenure protection?

 

cali

(114,904 posts)
5. baloney. they have multi year contracts
Wed Oct 23, 2013, 09:24 AM
Oct 2013

I know 2 very outspoken left folks who teach there. One teaches history. I can vouch for his being happy with this system.

leveymg

(36,418 posts)
10. Tenure is basically a guarantee of lifetime employment. It's essential to free expression
Wed Oct 23, 2013, 09:39 AM
Oct 2013

in fields such as political science, economics, and other ideologically-charged areas where university Presidents, Trustees and Alumni groups would otherwise clear the decks of faculty with whom they disagree, particularly those professors who are most active in agitating for change of policy at the institution, itself.

I was fortunate that Howard Zinn was my prof and I witnessed this first-hand. Noam used to come over the bridge to our teach-ins and events. He, too, was considered a thorn in the side of the Administration at MIT, and would not have survived if he didn't have tenure.

A multi-year contract and good intentions doesn't quite get you there. Lifetime tenure does.

 

duffyduff

(3,251 posts)
30. That's exactly what it is.
Wed Oct 23, 2013, 12:23 PM
Oct 2013

Unfortunately, spinners have also claimed it exists in K-12, which is NOT true and never has been.

They only have continuing contracts after a long, long probationary period not seen in other occupations, not lifetime employment. And that's assuming they get it at all, and school districts can get rid of them anyway without hearings (usually forced resignations or retirements).

kiva

(4,373 posts)
19. Perhaps the administration at this college at this
Wed Oct 23, 2013, 10:06 AM
Oct 2013

time is trustworthy, but that doesn't mean all administration at all colleges can or should be trusted to protect academic freedom...in fact, as more schools adopt business models they become massively untrustworthy.

 

duffyduff

(3,251 posts)
29. Furthermore, I would add "tenure" does NOT exist in K-12.
Wed Oct 23, 2013, 12:20 PM
Oct 2013

All teachers at that level have are the same civil service protections other public employees enjoy.

They sure as hell don't have "lifetime jobs," let alone the "academic freedom" enjoyed by those in colleges and universities.

 

Egalitarian Thug

(12,448 posts)
31. Which is a deficit. Tenure is not a "lifetime job" and it's not perfect,
Wed Oct 23, 2013, 04:11 PM
Oct 2013

but it is the best protection we've implemented yet.

zazen

(2,978 posts)
6. if it's a teaching college, tenure matters less, but I so smell academic capitalism
Wed Oct 23, 2013, 09:24 AM
Oct 2013

and that doesn't have to mean that particular institution is aggressively trying to spin off patents. It means it's internalized the values of neoliberalism and people speak in pro-management, entrepreneurial language. Code words like "innovation" and "market" and telling us how happy their faculty are make me suspicious, but maybe it really is a non-toxic environment.

Assuming the faculty aren't expected to publish but teach, advise, and serve on committees, then the absence of tenure is a little more palatable. Still, it's sad that that's considered a good deal these days because "at least they're not adjuncts."


 

cali

(114,904 posts)
14. you're simply wrong.
Wed Oct 23, 2013, 09:53 AM
Oct 2013

Champlain College continues to be one of the country's best institutions for undergraduate education, according to The Princeton Review. The education services company features the school for the third year in the new 2014 edition of its annual college guide, "The Best 378 Colleges," (Random House / Princeton Review, $23.99.)

Champlain College President David F. Finney said, "This continuing recognition is a reflection of everyone at Champlain College for a commitment to providing the most student-centric, professionally-focused, education in the country."

Only about 15 percent of America's 2,500 four-year colleges and only four colleges outside the United States are profiled in the book which is The Princeton Review's flagship college guide. It includes detailed profiles of the colleges with rating scores for all schools in eight categories, plus ranking lists of top 20 schools in the book in 62 categories based on The Princeton Review's surveys of 126,000 students attending the colleges.

The schools in "The Best 378 Colleges" also have rating scores in eight categories that The Princeton Review tallies based on institutional data it collected during the 2012-13 academic year and/or its student survey for the book. The ratings are scores on a scale of 60 to 99 and they appear in each school profile. Rating categories include: Academics, Admissions Selectivity, Financial Aid, Fire Safety, and Green, a measure of school's commitment to the environment in its policies, practices and education programs. Among the ratings in the Champlain profile are scores of 96 for quality of life and 92 for Green rating and 84 for Academics. The Princeton Review explains the basis for each rating score in the book and online.

<snip>

http://www.champlain.edu/about-champlain/newsroom/princeton-review-2014

http://vtdigger.org/2013/09/10/champlain-is-top-up-and-comer-college-in-u-s-news-2014-best-colleges-ranking/

neoliberal? not in the least. the college atmosphere is firmly rooted in Vermont liberalism- from the admin to the faculty.

It has a strong focus on the environment and sustainablility:

http://www.champlain.edu/student-life/campus-and-community-programs/sustain-champlain/programs-sustain-champlain/green-revolving-fund

It also has a strong focus on volunteering both in the community and beyond.

zazen

(2,978 posts)
18. "maybe it really is a non-toxic environment" and "I'm suspicious"
Wed Oct 23, 2013, 10:05 AM
Oct 2013

aren't strong assertions, are they? So I'm not sure how I could be "simply wrong."

IHE's aren't discrete entities. There are influences across higher ed in which members of all IHE's participate (or that they contest or resist) that reflect neoliberal values. No institution is free from it.

I study this as part of my work (and I've worked in higher ed for 25 years) and I don't defer to the "Princeton Review"'s methodology and raison d'etre for expertise on anything.

Also, volunteer programs (read Marc Bousquet on academic exploitation) can be used to exploit student labor. I've certainly seen the new movement in student "service learning" twisted in this way at many an institution.

Having said that, if the programs there are consciously resisting 30 years of academic capitalism, that's awesome, especially if they build in the transition-town (sustainability, resilience, whatever we call it) approach of an Oberlin. Every time I hear one more thing about Vermont (and I've met Bernie Sanders at the WH--he's delightful and an inspiration) I seriously consider moving there. But I feel it's more important that we fight the good fight here in North Carolina and look to Vermont as inspiration.

To recap, an entire institution cannot be somehow exempt from academic neoliberalism. Do the kids not use federal student loans? Do the faculty not pursue external federal grants? Could they collectively vote to reinstate tenure as a body if they wanted to? The larger trends in higher ed do not spare individual IHEs. It's like saying your entire town is exempt from capitalism. Can you resist it? HELL YES.

Nye Bevan

(25,406 posts)
8. So how do countries such as the UK manage just fine with no concept of "tenure"?
Wed Oct 23, 2013, 09:31 AM
Oct 2013

Or is it the tenure system that makes the US educational system so superior to the rest of the world?

leveymg

(36,418 posts)
11. Do they really?
Wed Oct 23, 2013, 09:43 AM
Oct 2013

One can always come up with examples of professors without tenure whose careers were ended prematurely.

It could be for those who survive there is a strong tradition of academic tolerance at the particular universities where they teach. But, that rarely extends to those who are not only ideologically suspect but also activists for change on campus.

MineralMan

(146,284 posts)
15. That's the intention of tenure, but it isn't always the result.
Wed Oct 23, 2013, 10:00 AM
Oct 2013

I had two types of tenured professors. The first type included many of the very best professors I encountered. They were brilliant, engaging, and excellent teachers. The second type, sadly equal in number to the first, used tenure to reduce their teaching to rote repetitions of the same thing they had taught for years. They used tenure to enable an end to their creativity. Those tenured professors were among the worst I encountered.

Tenure guarantees nothing for the students. It only guarantees that the professor will continue to have a teaching position. The rest depends on the character of the person who has tenure.

leveymg

(36,418 posts)
21. Word gets around about the time-servers.
Wed Oct 23, 2013, 10:19 AM
Oct 2013

I managed to avoid taking classes with most of those, and altogether had a highly positive academic experience.

MineralMan

(146,284 posts)
22. Yes, of course. However, tenure is not the do-all it is touted to be.
Wed Oct 23, 2013, 10:23 AM
Oct 2013

In some cases, for example, required upper division courses were only taught by the time-servers at my university. Some of them also taught graduate courses...badly. That is not to say that I didn't have outstanding professors, because I did. I also had a few who were barely standing at all, and were still teaching their dissertation, decades after it was written, without ever updating their knowledge or doing much else. Once tenure was awarded, they simply stopped in their tracks, showed up for their classes, and did no more than that.

Very disappointing people, they were, and sometimes there were no options for students.

leveymg

(36,418 posts)
24. That's no reason to do away with the tenure system.
Wed Oct 23, 2013, 10:36 AM
Oct 2013

Like any management approach, one can build in safeguards for retirement of faculty who stop being effective. There are peer committees that are designed to handle these issues. My condolences if the system wasn't working at your school, but it really didn't seem to be a problem where I went.

MineralMan

(146,284 posts)
25. Well, since I didn't go into academia, it doesn't really matter to me
Wed Oct 23, 2013, 10:39 AM
Oct 2013

any more. It bothered me when I was in school, and it's one reason I decided against an academic career. As it turned out, I had more fun living my life the way I have.

I only remember one professor who was forced into retirement for ineffectiveness. Just one. There were several in the department who should have been, though. Despite, of course, the great professors in that department.

zazen

(2,978 posts)
27. I'm seeing hard-working tenured folks forced into early retirement now
Wed Oct 23, 2013, 12:08 PM
Oct 2013

Post-tenure review is the new hammer . . . as well as threats to cut overall programs, which is the only acceptable way to eliminate tenured positions in the state system, anyway.

In a budget-starved environment, those with low post-tenure review ratings (either by their admins or spiteful, competitive peers on the RPT committee) are denied raises, given the worst courses, given the worst committee assignments, etc. And I've seen a dean and a department head target faculty members with these little "annual compact" devices that are touted as helping faculty be more fairly evaluated but are secretly used to control their research. One person had to re-do his 13 times because the dept head didn't approve of the journals to which he was submitting his work. She wanted letters by people in his field (for a simple annual "plan" for a tenured faculty member) explaining the relevance of the journals and of his research. She was looking for ways to set him up so she could claim he was "failing" and then put him on academic probation.

I can't believe how little people did in the 60s and 70s to get tenure. It was so much harder by the 90s, and those folks were evaluated by the 3-articles-for-tenure deadwood at the time who never had to live up to the standards they inflicted on others. In 2013, at some places, KEEPING tenure and any semblance of resources is an ongoing bloodbath. Obtaining external resources is the big push. Since there are so few TT faculty relative to admins and adjuncts, the former have a lot less leverage against admin abuses.

It's pretty ugly and unsustainable. Good thing you found a more fulfilling career.

MineralMan

(146,284 posts)
28. I made that decision way back in the 1970s.
Wed Oct 23, 2013, 12:15 PM
Oct 2013

It was based on what I observed in the department where I was a grad student. I got to see a lot of stuff I hadn't as an undergraduate, since I was also teaching Freshman Comp classes, so I was sort of semi-faculty. I didn't like what I saw or the politics of the department. After completing my Masters degree courses, I simply stopped bothering and went in another direction.

I had already published a few papers in recognized journals, and got a lot of encouragement to continue, but I just didn't like the environment I'd be working in for many years to come. So, I went solo, and had an interesting career as a magazine writer. Fortunately, I hadn't gotten completely immersed in the academic writing style, so I was able to shift directions fairly easily.

I'm sure things have changed in academia, but I'm out of that environment, so I haven't experienced them.

frazzled

(18,402 posts)
2. I stopped at "immediately employable" and "no tenure"
Wed Oct 23, 2013, 09:21 AM
Oct 2013

If your ideal college provides "training" that makes you "immediately employable" it's not my idea of education; it's a vocational school.

As far as tenure goes, sure, that might work in out-of-the-way places like Burlington, VT, where it's not that easy to attract faculty. And at a tiny school. But it would be a nightmare at larger institutions, where the newest, cheapest labor (vocational trainers?) would be constantly available.

Is Jim Fallows getting senile?

This is not a liberal view of education, either from the intellectual or labor viewpoint.
.

 

cali

(114,904 posts)
7. then you stopped too soon. Liberal arts are fundamental to the
Wed Oct 23, 2013, 09:30 AM
Oct 2013

the core curriculum there. It says so right in the article.

by the way, bzzzt. Vermont has no trouble attracting first rate faculty at any of its first tier colleges- and even within the state college system. None at all. It has no problem attracting first rate people for its thriving high tech companies either.
Many creative types want to live here- particularly the Burlington area. these facts are hardly obscure.

As for your slimy comment about Fallows; he didn't write this piece. Tierny did.

You sure do manage to get a lot wrong in just a few short paragraphs. You aren't senile but your reading comprehension skills are nothing to write home about.

frazzled

(18,402 posts)
13. I didn't say at all they weren't first rate
Wed Oct 23, 2013, 09:51 AM
Oct 2013

I said that many academics do not always want to move to out-of-the-way places, and I can confirm this from family members who have turned down positions at far more prestigious schools than this, for that reason. Often it's because of a spouse's or partner's needs or because of access to research facilities or cultural institutions.

And yes, I've worked with superior faculty members in Vermont, especially at Middlebury.

There are many other issues involved with tenure, including academic freedom and job security. It's all nice to talk about some little Eden, but in the real world colleges and universities will go for the cost-savings, and this is happening extensively. Professors are not unionized, and the tenure system is all the protection they have.

And yes, I read the part about the liberal arts. But it's an oxymoron to claim to value such education at the same time as making everyone "immediately employable."

There are many different kinds of higher education formats, this being one. We also need large research universities. We also need the state land-grant schools that employ and educate tens of thousands.

I hope the use of the term "slimy" made your day. Ugly, ugly.


 

cali

(114,904 posts)
16. that you know family members who don't want to work in far away places
Wed Oct 23, 2013, 10:01 AM
Oct 2013

is hardly reflective of anything.

vermont isn't some far away "little eden". It's less than 3 hours from burlington to boston and less than 2 to Montreal.


and YOU don't think suggesting that Fallows is senile is ugly? It's a lot uglier than my characterizing your saying that he's senile. That's just ugly and bigoted.

LuvNewcastle

(16,843 posts)
12. I agree, it's a vocational school.
Wed Oct 23, 2013, 09:47 AM
Oct 2013

I guess there are different kinds of colleges for different types of people, though. If you just want to learn some pointers on everyday living and how to work in a business, something like that would probably be ideal for you. It really isn't what I think of as a college, however. After all, why would you need 4 years to learn those things?

For more scholarly people who want to go into a professional field, whether it's law, medicine, or science, a place like Champlain wouldn't be helpful; in fact, it could even be harmful. At the age that people usually start college, people are still able to learn and retain a lot of information. What they learn in college is supposed to be the base they build on so they can go on to grad school, med school, law school, etc. Champlain isn't going to give those people what they need. They'll have to end up taking basic courses in a real college before they can move on to graduate studies.

Atmosphere is also important. The pre-grad students need interaction with others so they can be exposed to different ideas. They can also discuss assignments share what they've learned. They need an intellectual atmosphere. I doubt Champlain would provide that. People there are learning practical knowledge, not specialized knowledge. A place like that is fine for someone with average intelligence who wants to merely maximize their earnings. It would be a perfect fit for many people, but let's face it, it's just not set up for people who want a base for a lifetime of learning.

LuvNewcastle

(16,843 posts)
23. I don't mean to put the place down, cali.
Wed Oct 23, 2013, 10:34 AM
Oct 2013

Here's what I mean by what I wrote:

"Champlain offers six of the top “Nine Hottest Majors” according to the US News annual survey in 2013, including computer game design, environmental policy, health information, cyber security, new media and information assurance."

We need people to do all those things. There's nothing wrong with majoring in cyber security, if that's your interest. But the kinds of majors that are hot at Champlain aren't going to prepare someone for law school, med school, or grad school for most specializations. It's geared more toward people who are more interested in new technology. Hey, that's a good thing because we need people who can keep the modern world working for everybody. I just don't think it's a good fit for someone who's going into a professional field. Most professionals don't just learn things because they have to; they do it because they love learning. I don't get the impression that Champlain is a good fit for people like that.

 

cali

(114,904 posts)
3. this series focusing on Vermont that Jim Fallows and other Atlantic
Wed Oct 23, 2013, 09:22 AM
Oct 2013

writers have been doing, embodies and explains so much about what I love and admire about my state. It's focused largely on Burlington and has been a virtual hymn of praise. Can people in other places emulate what's going on here? I think so. Deborah Fallows wrote this piece:

Shaping the Soul of a School: A Sustainability-themed public school
http://www.theatlantic.com/education/archive/2013/10/vermont-report-shaping-the-soul-of-a-school/280455/

Tierney wrote this, and here are a couple of paragraphs:

How Did a 'Public Ivy' Take Root in Vermont?

<snip>

Part of the difference is that, somewhat unusually for a small town, there’s not just one dominant institution here. The immediate Burlington area has several colleges (the University of Vermont, St. Michael’s College, and Champlain College), each of them significant in the character of the city, and each offering glimpses into the disparate challenges facing American colleges and universities. I’ll save Champlain for a future post and focus here on UVM and St. Mike’s.

<snip>

As Jim Fallows has noted earlier, Burlington is unusual in supporting a profitable print newspaper, a non-harassing airport, and a software-company culture you might expect to find in Palo Alto or Seattle rather than Vermont. UVM’s presence among the public Ivies raises a similar question. How can a state with a population of some 600,000, and with no natural-resources revenue base, support an institution that competes with schools in much bigger, richer states?

<snip>

There’s an intriguing chicken-or-egg kind of question that emerges when you look closely at Burlington and its colleges: is the distinctive character of this small city a consequence of the college’s presence and contributions, or is there something intrinsic and native to the city and its residents (an earthy, Bohemian temperament?) that imparts to the colleges their special flavor? People smarter than I might be able to answer that. I can’t. But even I can see that there is a remarkable symbiosis that enriches the city and its colleges and infuses both with a strong sense of community (about which Jim will be writing more soon). The dominant values of the townsfolk give the colleges a special vibe that gets magnified on campus and then shot back out through the larger community in various ways.

http://www.theatlantic.com/education/archive/2013/10/how-did-a-public-ivy-take-root-in-vermont/280544/

so many things that are happening in this small state are extraordinary and forward thinking as well as people first.


Nye Bevan

(25,406 posts)
9. Whoa there. What about athletics?
Wed Oct 23, 2013, 09:32 AM
Oct 2013

Surely this ignores that a major role for US colleges is to act as farm systems for pro sports?

cilla4progress

(24,725 posts)
26. 1977 University of Vermont graduate here!
Wed Oct 23, 2013, 11:12 AM
Oct 2013

Loved groovy UVY - great time to be in college; Burlington is one of the most sane, humane, progressive cities in the country. Kind of "ruined me" for anywhere else (at that young age, did not realize the rest of the country wasn't like Burlington!!).

I remember Champlain, but didn't know anything about it from my time there. Sounds like a great option!

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