The Blond Roma - A tale of recessive genes

[Xipe Totec]

Recessive - Adj. Relating to or denoting heritable characteristics controlled by genes that are expressed in offspring only when inherited from both parents, i.e., when not masked by a dominant characteristic inherited from one parent.

As for example a blond or red-headed child born to dark-skinned parents.

Bulgarian Roma Sasha Ruseva (L), 35, holds her daughter next to her husband Atanas, 37, in front of their house in the town of Nikolaevo, some 280km (173miles) east of Sofia October 24, 2013. DNA tests showed that Ruseva and her husband are the biological parents of a 4-year-old blonde girl found in a Roma camp in Greece last week. Bulgarian prosecutors are investigating whether Ruseva agreed to sell her child in Greece. She denies this, saying she left a 7-month old baby in Greece - where she worked as an olive-picker - in 2009 because she could not look after the child and needed to return to Bulgaria



http://news.yahoo.com/photos/bulgarian-roma-ruseva-holds-daughter-next-husband-atanas-photo-164434725.html


Although one can reasonably doubt that a dark skinned child is the biological offspring of two light skinned parents, it does not work the other way around. Two dark skinned parents can both carry the recessive gene for light skin and can have light skinned offspring.

What happened to this family is atrocious.

[shanti]

1. Albinism

According to other accounts of this family, there was a history of albinism on the father's side, and at least one of their children was albino, a recessive gene. You would never be able to tell by looking at the parents though.

[CaliforniaPeggy]

2. You are absolutely correct.

And I agree about this being atrocious.

K&R

[Xipe Totec]

3. My parents were both brown haired, brown eyed

As am I. But I have three brothers who are blond. One green eyed, one blue eyed, one brown eyed, and a sister with red hair.

So this kind of genetic variation does not surprise me at all.

[LisaL]

5. What is atrocious? Spell it out, please.

[LisaL]

4. You seem to be really confused.

What do you think happened to this family that is atrocious? The child was removed from someone else, not this family. The biological mother admits to giving the child up, and is actually suspected of selling the child.

[Xipe Totec]

6. One of us is confused. I'll grant you that

This is only one of several current cases where hysterical authorities have removed children from their caretakers because "they don't look right".

The girl was taken away into "protective custody" because they did not believe the parents story that they had adopted the child from another Roma family.

How could that be? Romas giving birth to a fair child? Impossible!

"A lawyer for a Roma couple accused of abducting the girl found living with them says the pair adopted the child from her biological mother.

In a case that has generated huge interest in Greece, authorities have charged the couple with abducting the child they call "Maria." They appeared in court Monday and were remanded into custody pending a trial.

Authorities released photos of the child, possibly 4 or 5 years old, last week and sought public tips on her birth identity.

Kostas Katsavos, one of the couple's lawyers, told the Reuters news agency that they adopted Maria with the permission of her biological mother."

http://www.cnn.com/2013/10/21/world/europe/greece-mystery-girl/

Now, after the fact, and desperate to justify their actions, the authorities throw out a new accusation; that the birth mother "sold" the child. Really? What made them suspect this, the fact that the child is fair skinned? Would they have questioned the adoption if the child was brown skinned? Would you?

[LisaL]

7. The child was removed from a person who was not a biological mother.

The child also was not legally adopted-even their lawyer admits that adoption was not legal.
The woman also reportedly had 14 children registered to her, and supposedly given birth of six of them in ten months.
So maybe they were a bit curious how a human female gives birth to six children in ten months?

[Xipe Totec]

9. This is justification after the fact.

The only "evidence" they had was that the child was fair and the parents brown. Everything else is backpedaling to try to hide the true reason for their suspicion - racism.

[LisaL]

11. Really? How about having a proper documentation for the child?

That shouldn't raise any suspicion?

[Xipe Totec]

12. Why ask for the documentation to begin with?

Because the girl is fair and the parents brown.

RACISM.

[LisaL]

14. Police went there to investigate suspected criminal activity. Then they noticed the child.

So what is that do you think police should have done?

[Xipe Totec]

16. Keep the girl where she is until there is cause for concern.

Unless of course, having a white girl with brown parents is reason enough for concern.

RACISM.

[LisaL]

18. So having 14 children registered, most of whom appear to be non-existing, is not a cause for

concern?

[Xipe Totec]

22. Your information is stale

Now the real mother has stepped forward and has been proven to be the biological mother. She has further declared that she freely gave the girl away because she could not feed her. Accusations that she sold the child are just that; accusations. By the very people who are looking desperately to justify their actions after the fact and cloak themselves in authority.

The couple that adopted her may be guilty of welfare fraud. Maybe. That's yet to be proven also.

But this child does not prove their case; it undermines it. The child is real. They have custody of her with the mother's consent. If there is one child whose identity has been established and provenience verified, it is this one.

[LisaL]

25. First of all, police had no clue that biological mother gave up the child when they removed

the child.
You are suggesting that police should assume everything is fine and dandy, even when people claiming to be parents have fraudulently obtained documentation on the child?

[loli phabay]

26. i dont think it matters what evidence comes out the goal posts keep getting moved

Eventually it will be attacking the family for the girl not eating her Brussels sprouts.

[moriah]

31. I noticed. I have been trying to be gentle with my rhetoric on this, but it's hard.

Broad-brushing doesn't begin to cover many of the things I've seen posted.

At the same time, I really try to remember that most DUers see a child in trouble and react the same way I reacted to seeing this little girl's pain upon being taken from her family. Documentaries showing children living in appalling conditions and being exploited by the people who should look after them makes anyone with a conscience viscerally angry, and I'm glad DUers have consciences.

[loli phabay]

32. yup the broad brush thing gets me, though some of the comments have been shocking

And if said about any other minority would have the poster lambasted. Seems the rom as a culture are right to distrust outsiders.

[moriah]

13. Welfare fraud is no reason to bust into people's houses, and that's the only proven crime here.

No guns, drugs, or hats with names that sound suspiciously like delicious pastry were found in their home, or we would have heard about it. There was no specific probable cause to enter their home in the first place for the little girl to be discovered. When we create an atmosphere of persecution and give a community ample reason to distrust the government and any intrusion into their lives, it's no wonder they don't like to go to the authorities to get things done. Given the epidemic of Roma children in state care, it was unlikely that going to the Greek authorities would result in her child being placed with another Roma family, and depriving minority children of their cultural heritage is wrong. Also, growing up in state care is a known vulnerability factor for future exploitation.

Within their culture, the adoption was perfectly legal. And what truly matters is how the little girl was treated. Her neighbors suggest she was treated well, and certainly the quality of life in the Roma community in Greece is better than that in Bulgaria. Pre-fab homes reminiscent of Katrina trailers are a heck of a lot better than a house that is literally falling apart.

[LisaL]

15. So suspected welfare fraud should just be ignored?

And payments should be continued on most likely non-existing offspring?

[Xipe Totec]

17. non-existing offspring? She's white, but she not a ghost. nt

[LisaL]

19. Where are the other 10?

[Xipe Totec]

23. You're desperately seeking cover by sliding into a different argument.

I won't follow you there. You go alone.

[LisaL]

28. What different argument?

I personally never thought the child was abducted per se.

[moriah]

20. It's quite likely that she registered her children multiple times each.

They said she had registered 14 children, but 10 were "unaccounted for". With the kids all being allegedly born the same years, it's fairly likely she brought each child in mutiple times.

Far more likely than the accusations she'd sold or trafficked all 10.

[loli phabay]

21. there is also the smart thing of registering kids across as many borders as you can

So there is access to as many countries as possible. Makes it easier to hide. Wonder if all the kids are registered in one area or spread out.

[LisaL]

27. Yes, sure, makes it easier to hide. Whatever it is one wants to hide.

But nobody dare to question it.

[loli phabay]

30. question it if you like, but understand that there is the need to be able to disappear

There is still the fear of pogrom, it is still bubbling under the surface of large parts of europe.

[LisaL]

33. You don't think that's a good reason to take a child into custody if there is suspicion of

something going on? Because of the transient lifestyle by the Roma, the police will very likely not find anyone if they wait until after they investigate. From what has been reported, the bio mom and dad actually took off and no longer in that village in Bulgaria.

[moriah]

35. I'm sure it's not intentional, but that sounds an awful lot like victim blaming.

Using the fact a group is persecuted as a reason to subject the group to further persecution/unequal protection under the law ... well, pretty much par for the course historically, but still not good.

[LisaL]

38. It's not "unequal protection" under the law.

In US, ties to the community are considered on whether let someone out on bail or not.
If someone doesn't have ties to the community, they are likely to take off.

[moriah]

39. <bangs head thoroughly against wall>

Okay, I feel somewhat better now.

"Because of the transient lifestyle by the Roma, the police will very likely not find anyone if they wait until after they investigate."

Not only is that a *very* broad brush remark -- and untrue in most cases, the Irish girl's family had been in Ireland since before she was born, at the same address for several years, and was enrolled in school -- instead of doing what US courts do and looking at the individual case circumstances to guide the situation, you suggest it's fine to assume someone who is Romani will skip bail.

[LisaL]

40. Her bio parents took off and left some of the children behind.

"Her parents, Sasha Ruseva and Atanas Rusev, disappeared from their home in the nearby town of Nikolaevo on Friday morning, together with three of their children."

http://www.gulf-times.com/uk-europe/183/details/369721/-maria%E2%80%99s-roma-family-wants-her-back

[moriah]

42. "Police said they were still in Bulgaria and not under arrest."

"The Rusev family’s neighbours claim that a TV network offered to put the family up in a flat in Sofia in exchange for an exclusive interview."

The 14-year-old and the six-year-old were left with an 18-year-old sibling, not left to fend for themselves.

[LisaL]

43. Per the article, they were "assigned" to the 18 year old sibling, because

social services were not able to remove them from the village due to neighbors interfering.

[loli phabay]

45. even in the us an eighteen year old sibling is old enough to watch their younger siblings

Not sure why you findnthat unusual. Can you blame the neighbours not letting social services taking the kids after all the stuff that has been happening, i sure as hell would not let them near my kids.

[LisaL]

46. Even when parents were there, did you think the siblings looked well taken care of?

And, yes, I blame the neighbors for not allowing social services to take the children after parents took off somewhere (even if it's to tape some TV show).

[moriah]

47. I've known a few people who've given kids up for adoption. There were good reasons.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/greece/10405002/Maria-is-child-of-Bulgarian-couple-DNA-tests-show.html

That article has a bit of information on the social services situation for the family in Bulgaria. I notice that one thing it indicates is that the Ruseva family either did not or could not take their children to the doctor for their medical problems, whereas Maria's adoptive parents did get her medical attention. I think if there'd been a prior complaint about Maria's family, it would have come out by now -- and they would have found her sooner.

A 14-year-old is a bit young for a weekend babysitting gig, IMHO, without a lot of adult support, but it's possible the age norms are different in that town. One of Sasha's daughters is 20, lives close by, and indicated she was taking care of her siblings when she was 16. But I've not advocated for Maria to be returned to her biological family at this juncture. I think she was better off with her adoptive family.

[moriah]

24. That's what audits and things like that are for, not random door-to-door searches.

As I said, the lack of any specific reason to enter that particular home bothered me from the beginning here. And seeing the pale kid didn't make them think fraud, they thought abduction.

But if I had my druthers, the family would have their benefits reduced to the amount they're supposed to get, and they'd get Maria back. She's been with them since she was a baby, if they thought she was older than stated that suggests she had good nutrition and no stunted growth, there is a school in the community, and the way the charity described her being "frantic" upon being taken from the only family she knew breaks my heart.

[pnwmom]

29. In Greek law, an adoption occurring outside legal channels

can be prosecuted as an abduction.

These parents NEVER claimed to be the biological parents of Maria, and they had five different stories about how they came to get her. Why so many stories if they had the baby legitimately? The police would have been remiss if they DIDN'T investigate this case.

[moriah]

8. I'll let her relative answer you on the child-selling accusation.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/lightbox/world/videos/9326794/Suspected-mother-in-Greek-Maria-case?KeepThis=true

He has a good point.

[LisaL]

10. I fail to see what is good about this point.

[Warpy]

36. What happened to the little blonde child was atrocious

in that they removed her from people she knew and were caring for her while tests went on. That was entirely unnecessary. They also forced the families into notoriety, something the Roma people I've known have avoided like the plague.

I knew them well enough to know how informal adoptions between groups of Roma can be. I never doubted that the little girl had been informally adopted. Sometimes money can go either way in these adoptions. Paying the birth family a sum of money would have been compensating them for the loss of her labor as she grew up.

[loli phabay]

44. payment can also be made in respect to lost dowries, people also dont get family is different

In rom society, its not just blood that determines family but also other factors like geography and language.

[pitbullgirl1965]

34. What an amazing hair color!

I've never seen that except out of a box.

[LisaL]

37. It could very well be out of the box.

Their older daughter clearly has blond hair died red, since blond roots are showing.

[loli phabay]

41. probuably dyed, its a common enough practice to die young girls hair

[TorchTheWitch]

48. It's dye. Her eldest daughter also had dyed hair

roughly the same color that was grown out a good couple of inches.

These kids aren't just light skinned and blonde. They're albino which is why they have problems with their eyes. The eye problem was very evident in the eldest daughter.