Average monthly benefit for retirees on Social Security $1,230.

[nadinbrzezinski]

http://ssa-custhelp.ssa.gov/app/answers/detail/a_id/13/

Chained CPI.

Discuss

[DURHAM D]

1. Chained CPI makes good sense because we know that in the future

the cost of food, meds, utilities, Medicare charges, and transportation will all go down.

[nadinbrzezinski]

3. This is THE NUMBER that people should have in mind

and yes, we will have deflation

[Cleita]

2. Most could use an extra thousand a month for a quality of life

instead of just survival. If the way to calculate the COLA were done in a way that reflected real cost of living, the average benefit would probably be around $2,200 a month.

[nadinbrzezinski]

5. Well you agree with that commie Bernie Sanders I see

(I kid, I kid)

[Cleita]

12. ...

[Buddha_of_Wisdom]

27. A one-time 100% COLA increase on our SS....

and we'll match the Swiss retirees...

[Historic NY]

29. $2200 is almost the top of the mark.......$2533.

most people won't get there if they have the minimum work credits, retire early, or contribute little. Unless other/more people pay in or the cap is lifted.

http://ssa-custhelp.ssa.gov/app/answers/detail/a_id/5/~/maximum-retirement-benefit

[nadinbrzezinski]

32. At the very least cap should be raised

Lifted would be excellent

[Downwinder]

4. How about we chain Congressional salary to average income?

[nadinbrzezinski]

6. You mean this?

Rank-and-File Senators and Representatives
2013: $174,000
2000: $141,300


And for some it is chump change

I forgot to include the link

http://usgovinfo.about.com/od/governmentjobs/a/Annual-Salaries-Of-Top-Us-Government-Officials.htm

[grilled onions]

7. Sadly So Many Don"t Get One Grand A Month

Yet so many of the wealthy idiots seem to think we live a life of designer clothes,summer and winter homes, people to clean their homes and do all that scuttle work,have enough time and money to host parties every month, all the while take money from the struggling wealthy. They never see the seniors who sit and sleep in their ratty coats to save on the heat bill. They never see the seniors who cut meals in half to save for rent,taxes or medical bills. Each year we have more joining the "poverty club" and many who will never retire until bad health forces them to.

[nadinbrzezinski]

9. Average means exactly that

that half will get more, and half will get less.

Regardless, a good starting point for any of these discussions is that number.

Oh and let me add this

In colloquial language average usually means the sum of a list of numbers divided by the size of the list, in other words the arithmetic mean. However, it can alternatively mean the median, the mode, or some other central or typical value. In statistics, these are all known as measures of central tendency. The concept of an average can be extended in various ways in mathematics, but in those contexts it is usually referred to as a mean (for example the mean of a function)

[Egalitarian Thug]

14. That's not what average means. Thank you for demonstrating the biggest problem we have

in creating an educated and engaged citizenry, which is the only way for Democracy to work.

[Buddha_of_Wisdom]

28. I get Social Security disability

and I get a little bit more than average, but by not much...

and I have bills and tuition to pay....

[oldhippie]

30. And your edit shows that .....

.... the colloquial language is often wrong, again proving a point just made. Way too many people (including those who should know better) misuse the language.

[PoliticAverse]

33. 'average' doesn't imply half get more, half get less, that would specifically be the 'median'.

It's apparent they are using the 'arithmetic mean' for the $1,230. figure, since that's what they are using in this table:

http://www.ssa.gov/policy/docs/quickfacts/stat_snapshot/

which lists the 'average' SS OASI benefit of $1,203.72 (46,630,000 recipients, $56,129,000,000 in payments,
arithmetic mean payment: $1,203.72) for August 2013. The number that half the recipients get more than, half
get less than, is the 'median' which isn't specified. We don't know how close the median would be to the arithmetic
mean without knowing the distribution of the payments (if the distribution were a bell shaped curve for example -it
isn't for SS payments- the median and the arithmetic mean would be the same).

More on wage distribution and the mean vs median:
http://www.ssa.gov/oact/cola/central.html

Mean, median vs mode: http://www.purplemath.com/modules/meanmode.htm

[nadinbrzezinski]

35. You might want to argue with Social Security

As it is them also using the term

If we were to be far more mathematically correct, it is the mean, Regardless, even the SS administartion uses average

Here you go from their site.

Average monthly Social Security benefit for a retired worker
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What is the average monthly Social Security benefit for a retired worker?


The average monthly Social Security benefit for a retired worker was about $1,230 at the beginning of 2012. This amount changes monthly based upon the total amount of all benefits paid and the total number of people receiving benefits.


http://ssa-custhelp.ssa.gov/app/answers/detail/a_id/13/

[dsc]

36. that is because when one uses average one typically means the mean

yes one can use the median and call it an average, but one rarely does. That is why we hear reports of average life expectancy or average income and assume a mean but we hear reports of median incomes and median house prices.

[nadinbrzezinski]

37. As I said somewhere else

We could be more accurate, if you will. But colloquially it is used this way.

Most people are not familiar with statistics. Mean is a statistical term.

[magical thyme]

38. there is nothing to argue with. The SS administration is using the mean, not the median

They are not using the "colloquial" definition you referred to. They are using the mathematical mean. Average is normally used as a synonym for mean, not median or mode.

[nadinbrzezinski]

40. And they are using the word average

Unless I missed something.

[magical thyme]

49. they are using the word average as a synonym for mean

Synonyms are words that have the same meaning.

Average within the context they are using it would be the total dollars payed divided by the total number of recipients.

[nadinbrzezinski]

52. Which is the point I have been making to the grammar police

There are good reasons why the SS Administration does not use mean, while technically more accurate, it confuses people.

[muriel_volestrangler]

54. You appear to be the only one confused

They said 'average', for the most common meaning - ie 'mean'. You got confused, and thought they mean 'median'.

[Egalitarian Thug]

56. It's not a matter of grammer, it is a matter of right and wrong, that's math.

You are wrong. The SSA does indeed use average as a synonym for mean, but neither of those terms are defined as "half have more, half have less".

Does that help?

[tammywammy]

57. The SSA is using average as a synonym to mean.

It's stated plainly on the website you're linking to:

This amount changes monthly based upon the total amount of all benefits paid and the total number of people receiving benefits.

All benefits paid / number of recipients = mean (average)

Here's a website that maybe will help you: http://math.about.com/od/statistics/a/MeanMedian.htm

[snooper2]

61. At least the grammar police don't show up to your door

Jesus, you ever see what the phone cops unleash!

[Dreamer Tatum]

55. Average means nothing like that.

You should consider your audience before holding yourself up as an expert on everything. It would save you from looking like an idiot.

[oldhippie]

59. Much too late

That horse has left the barn.

I think this is a classic case of willful ignorance.

[Brickbat]

63. Copying.

Because you have a habit of self-deleting to punish DU when you are wrong.

Average means exactly that

Last edited Sat Oct 26, 2013, 04:11 PM USA/ET - Edit history (1)
that half will get more, and half will get less.

Regardless, a good starting point for any of these discussions is that number.

Oh and let me add this

In colloquial language average usually means the sum of a list of numbers divided by the size of the list, in other words the arithmetic mean. However, it can alternatively mean the median, the mode, or some other central or typical value. In statistics, these are all known as measures of central tendency. The concept of an average can be extended in various ways in mathematics, but in those contexts it is usually referred to as a mean (for example the mean of a function)

[RebelOne]

8. I receive a over $1400 and after Medicare deduction

it is about $1378, and that is not even enough to cover all expenses. Fortunately, I do not have any credit cards, but there is the electric, phones (land line and cell phone), internet, water, lot rent (I live in a mobile home), food and other miscellaneous costs do not leave me with any extra money. I have some savings, but I am trying not to dig into that.

[nadinbrzezinski]

10. I know, and if you live in places with high cost of living

it goes even less

[RebelOne]

26. I live in Georgia, and the cost of living is low

compared with a lot of other states. I used to live in South Florida many years ago, and if I were living there now I would be eating cat food.

[hobbit709]

11. Mine's $300 a month less.

[nadinbrzezinski]

13. That is why the number is average

half get more, half get less. Anytime our critters in DC start screaming grand bargain, chained CPI or what have you, they need to be thrown that in their faces.

Fun fact, they all make above the contribution cap. Staff not so much, but critters do.

[hedgehog]

17. hi Nadin! I think you're running up against the difference between average and median.

If ten people get $100 and four people get $1000, then the average would be $357.14, way more than some are getting, way less than the rest. The median ( I think) would be $100. I've always been a little fuzzy on median, but it's an attempt to represent the most typical number.

[nadinbrzezinski]

18. I am using the colloquial defintion of the term

If we were to be far more mathematically correct, it is the mean, Regardless, even the SS administartion uses average

Here you go from their site.

Average monthly Social Security benefit for a retired worker
Print
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What is the average monthly Social Security benefit for a retired worker?


The average monthly Social Security benefit for a retired worker was about $1,230 at the beginning of 2012. This amount changes monthly based upon the total amount of all benefits paid and the total number of people receiving benefits.

http://ssa-custhelp.ssa.gov/app/answers/detail/a_id/13/

[hedgehog]

21. I think the important point is that some earn above average, and others below average!

the real question is what is an acceptable number of retirees left under the poverty level?

[nadinbrzezinski]

23. Agreed

[magical thyme]

39. regardless of how *you* are using the term, the SS administration is using the word average

as a synonym for mean. When they say the average benefit was $1230, they are *not* saying that half get more and half get less. They are dividing the total payout by the number of recipients.

Median is not used synonymously with average, mean is.

[nadinbrzezinski]

41. Did I miss the word *average* in the SS site?

Updated 10/11/2013 10:29 AM | ID# 13
Average monthly Social Security benefit for a retired worker
Print
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http://ssa-custhelp.ssa.gov/app/answers/detail/a_id/13/

Nope, I did not.

[Yo_Mama]

42. Yes, but average does not mean that half make over and half make under

Seriously, it doesn't. And that's highly relevant to the discussion.

More often averages in such lists are higher than the median (half over, half under), which is an important point here. You can see why from this example:

Monthly Benefit:
$837
$892
$932
$1280
$1760

The average is $1,140, but 3/5ths get a benefit under the average. When you do averages, the higher numbers often push the mean over the median ($932).

Here's a link that explains it:
http://math.about.com/od/statistics/a/MeanMedian.htm

Here's a public policy paper explaining just how modest SS benefits really are. The numbers are older, but the math is still right for the purposes of discussion:
http://www.cbpp.org/cms/?fa=view&id=3368

[nadinbrzezinski]

44. The SS system does not use mean

For one simple reason, statistics is not something people are familiar with. I know this is a difficult point to bring across, but that is the truth. Once the vast majority of Americans take a statistics course we can be that precise. We don't live in that world.

But continue with the semantic argument. In popular understanding it is what it is.

And I am sorry, if the SS administration uses average, I will continue to use that word to explain this.

[Yo_Mama]

47. It's not semantics - your math is wrong

They use the word average, which is the mathematical mean. Average/mean DOES NOT MEAN HALF UNDER AND HALF OVER.

[nadinbrzezinski]

48. Go argue with the SS administration.

I am sorry it's hard, they mean it that way.

[magical thyme]

50. No they do not mean "average" as a synonum for "median"

They use "average" as a synonym for "mean."

There is no reason to argue with the SS administration. You are misunderstanding how they are using the word average.

[tammywammy]

58. No they aren't using the word average that way.

Total benefits paid / number of recipients = mean (average)

That does not equal the median no matter how many times you keep repeating yourself. This is basic, I learned this is elementary school for goodness sake.

[oldhippie]

60. It should be pretty obvious by now .....

The OP is not going to admit to being in error.

[sweetapogee]

62. I think it's called...

The New Math. Or something like that.
I've heard some argue that Y doesn't =MX + b

[Liberal_in_LA]

45. ....

[hedgehog]

15. I think instead of discussing chained CPI, we need to address the reality that for many (most?)

people, Social Security represents their total income, not part of a package including savings and a pension.

It's gotten worse these days when fewer and fewer people can count on a guaranteed pension. Even if you have substantial investments made over a life-times employment, you could be a victim of a sudden downturn in the economy.

[nadinbrzezinski]

16. Agreed.

and that is not something congress critters understand. The end of pensions.

[Yo_Mama]

43. Total or near total, and that number will keep increasing.

And most SS beneficiaries are not that far above the poverty line. Their incomes are distinctly modest.

You are correct, and here is a paper with some stats that show that you are correct:
http://www.cbpp.org/cms/?fa=view&id=3261


And again, this number will keep increasing.

Nor will the "savings" from Chained CPI really be that much, because for many of those for whom SS is 80-90% of their income, Chained CPI along with later retirement dates will push them below the eligibility line for food stamps and Medicaid, which is more costly per recipient than the Chained CPI benefit reduction.

This is a very important issue and I commend the OP for bringing it up. We should at least educate ourselves on what this really means.

[grasswire]

19. I know several who get less

My cousin, recently widowed, gets $900 and that's from her husband's lifetime of work and more than she would get on her own record. Another person gets $750, and another gets $800.

Women now old enough for SS often were harmed by the divorce laws of the 60s and 70s. They stayed at home with children, and often had only low-level jobs after divorce. So their SS is low, and their earnings were low, too.

[hedgehog]

22. Thank you for that example - I knew it was true, but didn't have the numbers!

[nadinbrzezinski]

24. When you have policy makers not even knowing that base number

that is where you need to start.

I know they don't, by the way. More than a few don't know what the Federal Min Wage is either

[handmade34]

20. Chained CPI > BAD

right now it looks like eliminating the payroll tax cap and/or increasing the payroll tax rate are the best solutions (estimated to fill 86% and 64% of the funding gap respectively)...

from AARP Public Policy Institute...

The Social Security payroll tax currently applies to annual earnings up to $110,100. Any wages earned above $110,100 go untaxed for Social Security. This cap generally increases every year with increases in the national average wage. Today, the cap covers about 84 percent of total earnings. Eliminating the cap so that all earnings would be subject to Social Security’s payroll tax would help close the program’s funding gap. If your income is under $110,100, you would see no change. If you make above that amount, you (as well as your employer) would pay the 6.2 percent payroll tax on your remaining wages. If all earnings were immediately subject to the Social Security tax, the new revenue is estimated to fill 86 percent of the funding gap.

Employers and employees each currently pay a 6.2 percent tax to Social Security on earnings up to $110,100. Self-employed workers pay both the employer and employee share, for a total of 12.4 percent. One option to help close the Social Security funding gap would raise the payroll tax rate for all workers and employers. For instance, on a $50,000 annual salary, increasing the payroll tax rate to 6.45 percent would increase both the annual employee and employer contribution by $125 each. Changing it to 7.2 percent would increase the annual employee and employer contribution by $500 each. The rate increase could occur gradually or all at once. Increasing the payroll tax rate from 6.2 percent to 6.45 percent immediately is estimated to fill 22 percent of the funding gap. Increasing the payroll tax rate gradually over 20 years on employers and employees from
6.2 percent to 7.2 percent is estimated to fill 64 percent of the funding gap.

http://www.aarp.org/content/dam/aarp/research/public_policy_institute/econ_sec/2012/compilation-of-options-social-security-AARP-ppi-health.pdf

[indepat]

25. Gotta cut entitlements 'cause that was the Simpson-Bowles answer to all that ails us, surely

not an effective corporate income tax rate of only 7% and the preferential income tax treatment of the types of income most often comprising most of the income of the uber-wealthy: capital gains, dividends, and surely der Mittens most favorite, "carried interest." No, those and a nearly-low modern highest marginal rate are not a problem as Simpson-Bowles saw it 'cause freakin' entitlements is the problem. To wit: Simpson-Bowles was a humongous pile of right-wing male bovine excrement which ignored the vast revenue loss created by a tax code giving preferential treatment to the uber-wealthy and large corporations.

[easttexaslefty]

31. Mine is six hundred a month

after part b & d. Was 740 before.

[PoliticAverse]

34. As to the President's specific chained CPI proposal, you can find it here...

http://www.whitehouse.gov/omb/budget/factsheet/chained-cpi-protections

It's a bit long cause it includes 'two types of protections' for low income recipients.

[madrchsod]

46. i get a little over 750 a month

take out my medicare and it`s just enough to pay my utilities.

there`s going to be a lot of people who will be getting reduced amounts in the coming years. they have been laid off for long periods of time or they just gave up looking for a job and exist in the underground economy.

[global1]

51. Time To Mount A "Lift The Cap" Campaign......

Check out this link:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023871310

Don't let them toy with SS, Medicare and Obamacare.

Lift the Cap is an easy fix for SS. We need to get this message out.

Why is it so difficult to get DU'ers to back this idea.

Please get this out on Twitter and Facebook. We need 'lift the cap' pictures to catch on and get viral.

[nadinbrzezinski]

53. Yup, said as much on my blog.

[BKLawyer]

65. Two things ...

(1) lower the overall social security tax rate and eliminate the cap on income to which Social Security taxes are applied, and
(2) means test.

As to #1 - we need to lower the rate so that those less well off will get to keep more of their money while those well off will pay more and have it applied to all of their income. With the cap at 106,000, a millionaire's effective rate for SS taxes is like less than 1%, while someone earning less than the current cap is paying 6.45%.

And as to #2 - yes, we need to means test because there's no reason wealthy retirees need to receive the benefits when I know little old ladies who don't receive but $600/month. Let's be honest, Social Security is welfare, and the benefits need to go to those who need it. The Supreme Court determined long ago that Social Security was not "insurance" or an "annuity." Nobody has an "account" that their Social Security taxes were paid into ... its not "theirs." We are taxed today to pay for current beneficiaries. If that's the case - help those who truly need it.

Finally, here in Michigan, there is a provision in our property tax laws that far too many just don't know about, and it provides a "poverty exemption" for those who make at or below the poverty line and is a complete abatement of property taxes (so that the elderly (or just plain poor), if they own their home, aren't kicked out because they couldn't afford the property taxes).

[nadinbrzezinski]

66. 1.- eliminate the cap, agreed

2.- it is not welfare, means testing is a terrible idea. It is a way to weaken the system on the way to elimination.

See how many real welfare programs are under direct attack, as exhibit A