Need Help With "You Didn't Build That"

[WiffenPoof]

I have been seeing more and more stickers that read: "Yes, I DID Build It"

Of course, this is referring to a comment made by President Obama a few years ago where he implied - or stated that "You didn't build that." Referring to small businesses. Of course, we all know what he meant. He was really saying that without the government their businesses would not be the success they are. A good example would be the roads built by government that allow business to transport their products to market.

I have been debating with a RW "friend" who is convinced that this is not what he meant. In fact, I've debated others on this very statement for a while now.

I would like to be able to list more than just the roads...but other government contributions to successful business. So, if you can help me out I would appreciate it.

This argument, by the way, also lends itself to the debate of why the wealthy should pay more in taxes - to include fair taxation of businesses. If the business owner had not lived in an environment that allowed him/her to generate such wealth, they may not have realized the success they have.

What else besides roads built by the government can I refer to?

Thanks...

-Paige

[kestrel91316]

1. Hmmmmmm...........derp...............the internet? The educational system that ensured

literate employees? Police and military to make this country safe enough to invest in? Universities to provide engineers and scientists to invent and build just about everything? Regulations and inspectors to ensure those things are built to standards that benefit society?

I could go on, but I'm pretty sure you get the point.

All that private businesses seem able to do, left to their own devices, is pollute the air, water, and soil; cheat investors; abuse employees; and produce dangerous products and inadequate services.

[WiffenPoof]

5. Hey Thanks...

I knew if someone just started listing the benefits to business...the rest would flood in.

This argument is similar to the "It Takes A Village" debate. The RW hates when someone refers to the fact that society contributes to the raising of their children...when it is only obvious.

-P

[Keefer]

11. One of my RW "friends"

tell me none of that would be possible without taxpayers. What do I say to that?

[CBHagman]

14. That the individual taxpayer isn't necessarily going out to repair the bridge...

...inspect the chicken, see the Social Security check is mailed, track the hurricane, preserve the document, catalog the collection, answer the phone, guard the building, monitor the nuclear weapons, perform the medical research him/herself.

Better yet, get some vivid depictions of life in the so-called good old days. In fact there's a book called The Good Old Days -- They Were Terrible! Introduce (or reacquaint) them with befouled water and air, children working in mines, Typhoid Mary and her ilk spreading disease. I suspect relatively few people realize how much progress has been made controlling pollution, for instance.

On edit: Of course, government workers themselves are taxpayers too.

[Quantess]

16. What is there to say? It's true.

And?

[kestrel91316]

17. He's correct. Ask him what his problem with that is.

Wait, don't tell me he thinks people should get all that for FREE??????

Because that would mean he thinks everyone should be "takers" and "freeloaders" and "moochers"!!!!



Find a better friend. That one is seriously lacking in rational thought processes.

[arcane1]

2. "That" was not referring to small business. Your friend is either ignorant or deliberately obtuse.

The full quote is clear enough for any idiot to understand:

"If you were successful, somebody along the line gave you some help. There was a great teacher somewhere in your life. Somebody helped to create this unbelievable American system that we have that allowed you to thrive. Somebody invested in roads and bridges. If you've got a business – you didn't build that. Somebody else made that happen. The Internet didn't get invented on its own. Government research created the Internet so that all the companies could make money off the Internet."


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/You_didn%27t_build_that

[Egalitarian Thug]

3. What specific argument are you looking to counter?

What does this person assert that the President did mean?

There must be thousands of counters to all aspects of the mythology underlying the "self made man" story, which do you want?

[WiffenPoof]

6. Well, Actually...

it really wasn't that deep. I mean I'm speaking with a RW nut job, after all.

He just felt that government (that evil government) shouldn't take credit for the hard working people of this country. Pretty simple, really.

-P

[Demo_Chris]

8. Gotcha, you argue that by conceeding that obvious point, then moving past that...

To what President Obama was actually talking about.

Of course the government did not BUILD your (or my) business, and more than the government wrote the post you are now reading. The government did, however, make it possible for you to read this post, not only by building the internet you are reading it on, but by educating the two of us in such a way that we can communicate intelligently.

[Egalitarian Thug]

9. That's the problem with conservatives of all types, I guess.

If they weren't so simple-minded, they wouldn't be conservative.

This is one of those classic "Where do I start?" arguments. I usually like to start with their religious book in cases like this.

[RobertEarl]

4. More than just roads?

Roads are pretty damn big.

But try NASA, NOAA, FDA, NWS, DoD, etc.

Business in this country is very dependent on all those federal orgs.

[msanthrope]

7. Just how does your friend think the lights stay on? The toilets flush and the poo goes somewhere?

How does he think his cellphone and other communications work? Who would he call if an employee or someone else stole from him? Does he like drinking clean water? Does he like buying inspected meat? Does he like having and relying on insurance? These things happen because of government.

As for businesses, how does he think commerce happens? How do things move on ships, trains, planes, and through digital media?

[NMDemDist2]

10. here's some

http://ourfuture.org/20101029/The_Myth_of_the_Self-Made_American_Why_Progressives_Get_No_Respect_

[Lancero]

12. Currently looking for a picture...

That gives man examples about this.

Will take a bit to find it though. My picture folder isn't organized very well.

[Lancero]

13. A picture that you can refer to

[img][/img]

[WiffenPoof]

15. Wow...thank you all

I have more than enough to put together an effective argument.

[Courtesy Flush]

18. MONEY!

The very money that he claims is all his, is in fact a government product.

[Taitertots]

19. Does your RW friend actually own a small business?

I only ask because I hear insane things about businesses from RWers that have no idea about running a small business.

Just ask them....
Who do you go to if someone steals from your company? (the government)
Who do you go to if someone steal your ideas or trademarks? (The government)
Who do you go to if someone breaks a contract with your company? (The government).....

Then just say... Oh so you mean your business couldn't exist in the first place if everyone wasn't paying taxes and supporting you. Without contracts and a system to determine ownership (the government), no business could operate.

[Chiyo-chichi]

20. Also make your "friend" read this:

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2012/jul/26/mitt-romney/putting-mitt-romneys-attacks-you-didnt-build-truth/

I'm surprised that anyone is still harping on this a year and a half later.

I don't suppose your friend would watch a Jon Stewart video? He explains the whole thing quite well. At the end of the video at this link, there's footage of Mitt Romney saying essentially the same thing.

http://videocafe.crooksandliars.com/heather/jon-stewart-rips-fox-and-romney-out-contex

[bhikkhu]

21. Education is the best example

If a business is built by an individual, who educated that individual in the first place? If he runs a business with employees - who educated his employees?

Or, if you are in a brighter crowd, ask a self-made or self-educated type whose language he used. Civilization provides each of us with a host of tools we never would or could have thought of if working alone, from scratch, and we are each indebted to legions of unknown ancestors going back as far as the origins of the species itself.

[R B Garr]

22. Infrastructure - that was one of the main references to Obama's comment

Bridges, highways, etc. Elizabeth Warren references this a lot in her comments. No matter what a private business owner does or has done, they do so on the backbone built by and paid for by others, as in taxpayer money.

edit: correct the spelling of infrastructure

[Boom Sound 416]

23. The arguement goes two ways

Last edited Sat Oct 26, 2013, 08:54 PM - Edit history (1)

Yes, govt built the infrastructure, but taxpayers paid for it, small businesses in particular (along with demand (along with digital infrastructure, etc.)) grew the ecomnony to build more infrastructure and so on.

It's not so much, "you didn't, I did," but "we built it together, taking turns."


Hell, the nuclear sub chillin in the North Atlantic is one reason it's so easy to create a business in the USA. They built it, we paid for it. We built some more, they built some more.