"Bernie Sanders talks about...the possibility of a presidential run...."

[steve2470]

Full headline:

Social Democracy in the South

Bernie Sanders talks about economic justice—and the possibility of a presidential run—on a three-day road trip.

http://inthesetimes.com/article/15784/social_democracy_in_the_south/

One couldn’t help but notice the vaguely presidential tinge of the whole affair—the wide-reaching stump speeches delivered in unfamiliar territory coupled with the fact that Sanders was greeted with a rock star reception that few other senators are capable of generating—let alone in the immediate aftermath of a government shutdown that left an already deeply unpopular Congress with its lowest approval ratings in the history of polling.

I asked the Senator if he was contemplating a presidential run in 2016. Some left-wing Democrats urged him to challenge Obama in the primary last election, and there’s once again talk of him mounting a campaign—like last time, all of it speculative. He says he doesn’t want to.

“I suppose if you’re running for president, probably going to Mississippi and Alabama is not the place most candidates would go. You go to Iowa and New Hampshire or something like that,” Sanders says with a laugh. “But what I do think is there needs to be a progressive voice in the presidential process. I hope very much there will be a voice coming up to do that.”

But when pressed to say if he’s completely decided against running, he acknowledges he hasn’t. “I haven’t ruled it out.”

Wow. If Bernie ran...DU would go crazy ! I was amazed to read this.

[G_j]

1. pretty please?!

[lark]

155. Pretty please with a cherry on top?

God, I can't imagine how exciting it would be to vote for an actual progressive and not someone who wants to be seen as bi-partisan and far too often cares more about that than principals.

[deutsey]

2. I'd enthusiastically join his campaign. n/t

[PearliePoo2]

41. I would too!

I don't have any money..NONE...but I would search the sofa cushions and under the car seat to find cash to send to Bernie!

[dotymed]

83. I am with you.

Hell, I'd work my old ass off for Bernie.

There is no doubt in my mind that he would be the transformative figure as POTUS.
FDR has always been my ideal Democratic President, I believe that Bernie Sanders would bring us even more positive, Progressive changes than FDR did.

America is at such an important time in it's history, "the elite against the rest of us" that I firmly believe Bernie can change the dynamics of American thought, actions, regulations, etc..

I understand that a President doesn't have the power to directly affect many processes in our system. However, Senator Sanders is such a down to earth, sensible and persuasive person that I believe he can absolutely change the way Americans think about government because he is for average Americans, tried and true.

Obviously, I cannot say enough about Senator Sanders abilities and my support of him.

PLEASE, SENATOR SANDERS, AMERICA WOEFULLY NEEDS YOUR GUIDANCE.

[daleanime]

151. +1

[MissDeeds]

187. Sign me up

Bernie Sanders is the best hope for this country. I know the power brokers will work to thwart his efforts if he does run - why would they want a candidate with integrity who can't be bought or manipulated? If he runs, I will work my tired old ass off for him too; gladly and with great pride.

[840high]

96. I would join you.

[Bjorn Against]

3. I would love to see a President Sanders

Unfortunately his age may prevent this from happening, he is currently 72 and will be 75 by the time the election takes place. He would be a great candidate in so many ways, I would love to see him run but I would have concerns for his health.

[rwsanders]

133. Well then how about me?

I've got the same basic views, same name. I play a little sax, probably not as good as Bill. I like to sail, but probably not as good as JFK. I'll like to see FDR's second bill of rights enacted.
I can solve the other problem and declare as a democrat.
You all talk about it and get back to me.

[TekGryphon]

4. How would that square with DU policy? n/t

[HereSince1628]

7. Once upon a time in DUland, DU claimed to for liberals and progressives including greens

then there was ugliness among the families of the Clan.

[el_bryanto]

8. speculating about a run is probably fine; an actual run would probably be different

I don't know though.

Bryant

[AAO]

12. Obviously he'd need to declare as a Democrat.

[sabrina 1]

42. Why? Bernie caucuses with Dems. If he runs he should run as he is. To change

his affiliation would be phony. I don't think he is a phony.

I will support him if he runs. He has represented Democratic Principles far more consistently than many of our elected officials in the Dem Party.

He will be fiercely attacked, by both sides IF he runs, but at this point, most people have become immune to the personal attacks on good candidates. We know where they come from and they do not have the effect they used to have. In fact we can USE them to demonstrate why we need to support Sanders.

[stevenleser]

60. They were talking about being able to support him according to DU rules

You cannot support a non-Democrat vs. a Democrat in elections here on DU. If you do, you get banned.

There are rare exceptions made in cases where the Democrat running has no chance of winning and a Green or Independent might have a chance. That happened with the Florida senate race last time.

That would not be the case here. If Sanders runs as a non-Democrat we would not be able to support him on DU.

[sabrina 1]

103. Yes you can. DU supported a non Dem over a Dem in Florida not so long ago.

[stevenleser]

109. I explained that exception in my response to you. That would not apply here.

On Edit: We can settle this by a post in Ask the Administrators, but I think I can channel Skinners POV on this at least well enough to predict what the response will be.

Since whoever the Democratic nominee for President will be will have a very strong chance to win, any advocacy for someone other than that nominee here will be considered a TOS violation and grounds for PPR.

[sabrina 1]

126. Well, the general population are the ones who will decide.

Websites don't have a whole lot of impact on elections, and if people genuinely prefer someone like Bernie over a status quo candidate, I don't think they will be influenced much by anything and will simply do what they think is right. A huge shift is occurring in politics. I am willing to bet also, I am willing to bet that if someone like Sanders runs, he WILL get the votes of untold numbers of Dems regardless of online rules, because he is talking like a Democrat and has a record to show he means it.

If the Dem Party wants to hold on to their base they are going to have to start right now by slapping down any talk of cuts to SS and other social programs. As Bernie is doing. If they don't, they will most likely find out that SS is still the Third Rail of Politics and people will seek out candidates that are going to protect their interests. That is just a fact.

[red dog 1]

201. Well stated, sabrina.

Last edited Tue Oct 29, 2013, 07:30 PM - Edit history (1)

I just hope and pray that Obama does NOT cave in to the Repugs on cuts to Social Security, or he will be in "a heap of trouble" with his base....which is US!

I love Bernie..he's my favorite Senator, (right before Elizabeth Warren); but if he runs as an Independent, it will split the vote & that would not be good for the Dems in 2016.

On the other hand, if Bernie becomes a Democrat,.......

[AAO]

165. PPR = Pepperoni Pizza Relief?

[AAO]

64. I'll vote for him regardless of party but he'd have a better chance as a dem

it's not like he's going from far right winger to dem. if he doesn't go with the Dems he splits the vot and the pukes win.

[dotymed]

91. That is so sad.

When people put party first instead of a proven Democratic Socialist (I) whose life has been devoted to improving the lives of Average Americans.
IF we get the opportunity to actually elect a proven populist (Senator Sanders) and screw it up over party affiliations, that would prove that we are indeed entitled to the government of corporatists that we currently have.

[stevenleser]

111. Has nothing to do with "people put party first". Just because you cannot advocate for him on DU

doesn't mean you can't vote for the guy if that is what you want to do.

IMHO, if Sanders decides to try to run, and that is a big IF, he will try to get the Democratic Nomination.

[AAO]

129. I'm sorry if the turth hurts. Have a nice day!

[dotymed]

194. Your version of "the truth" is what is sad. n/t

[AAO]

198. And a big n/t to you too! HAVE A GOOD DAY!

[sabrina 1]

170. Yes, it is sad. Although I doubt that is the popular view. Today's younger

generation are far, far more aware, thanks to their access to a vast variety of news sources, of the way things are and are growing in numbers, as each new generation learns how their futures have been destroyed by the current system. So I dont think too many of them will care what letter Bernie chooses to place after his name. That is the old way.

[bvar22]

154. Bernie wouldn't be attacked by "both" sides.

He would be attacked exclusively by the Conservatives,
just like Dennis Kucinich.




[font color=firebrick][center]"There are forces within the Democratic Party who want us to sound like kinder, gentler Republicans.
I want a party that will STAND UP for Working Americans."
---Paul Wellstone [/font][/center] [center] [/font]
[font size=1]photo by bvar22
Shortly before Sen Wellstone was killed[/center][/font]

[morningfog]

14. If he ran, whether as a Dem of Dem Socialist, DUers could fully support him.

I'd love to see a Sanders, Clinton, Christie, Cruz race.

[Renew Deal]

43. All of his supporters will promptly be banned

Last edited Mon Oct 28, 2013, 10:56 AM - Edit history (1)

[whatchamacallit]

75. So be it.

[daleanime]

153. That would be what?

At least half of us(maybe more)?

[whatchamacallit]

164. Something like that I imagine

It will be interesting to see what happens here if Sanders runs as an independent...

[RandiFan1290]

71. It was ok for Charlie Crist

[stevenleser]

118. Which was an exception in a case where the Democrat had no chance.

Its going to be hard to make that case for the Democratic nominee for President in 2016.

[hootinholler]

84. There is currently a Bernie exception

I don't know how that would work if Bernie ran as an I

It would however likely change the face of DU. As much as I love this place, I would choose supporting Bernie over DU. I hope it never comes to that.

[stevenleser]

119. Which is exactly why if he runs I think he will run as a Democrat. Bernie is well aware...

of the risk of causing enough of a split in the American left to allow the Republican to win.

If he runs as a Democrat, he forces Hillary to address his concerns in the primary and she probably makes some sort of concessions to get his endorsement.

[Capt. Obvious]

98. The Crist exception!

Not to be confused with the King exception.

[RKP5637]

5. K&R !!! K&R !!! K&R !!! K&R !!! K&R !!! K&R !!! K&R !!! K&R !!!

[kestrel91316]

6. I'd love a President Sanders, but I think we all know that's not going to happen. BUT.......

a VP Sanders is a definite possibility. I can see that happening and succeeding.

[Demo_Chris]

17. What would be the point? He has more power in the Senate. nt

[glinda]

54. And it would be a waste of his energy if Dems and Liberals did not have majorities.

[cui bono]

113. +1

That would just sideline him. He would never accept.

[grahamhgreen]

134. That's what they said about Obama.

[okieinpain]

174. that is not going to happen. lol.

[newfie11]

9. Omg I hope sooooooo

He has said so many times he wouldn't run for president so maybe he is changing his mind.
This country need a congress full of Bernie's .

[nadinbrzezinski]

10. This place will be incredibly insufferable

After that, I also hope for a progressive voice.

[Dragonfli]

49. The Sensible Centrists here would have to invent a pole dancing girlfriend and gather the pitchforks

Only Blue Dog Independents like Lieberman are allowed our support as far as I can tell. I mean, he was supported here as an Indy, and he paid off the investment by all his fine work making sure the ACA was as corporate friendly as possible.

That is the important part, helping the party to be acceptable to the highest donors (bidders?) as per the 30 year old Centrist plan.

[dotymed]

94. As I remember the fight over the ACA,

Bernie was against it because it was more insurance reform than health care reform.

President Obama talked to Senator Sanders ( I wasn't there so I do not know the specifics), I believe he convinced him that the ACA was the best deal he could get from the republicans and that the ACA was hopefully the beginning of Universal health care that we all want.

I do remember Senator Sanders reluctantly supporting the bill and then shortly thereafter being quite upset with President Obama for awhile because we got even less health care reform in the final bill.

Senator Sanders did acknowledge that the ACA was better than nothing but was unhappy that the real reforms were "negotiated" away at the beginning and that universal health care was not even allowed "at the table."

[Maedhros]

131. Bernie's position on the ACA mirrors my own. [n/t]

[dotymed]

193. Mine too n/t

[AAO]

11. I'll support him with everything I've got!

[Uncle Joe]

13. Kicked and recommended.

Thanks for the thread, steve.

[Demo_Chris]

15. He'd have my support! nt

[AtomicKitten]

16. I'm in.

[Gman]

18. Fortunately Sanders has more sense than to run

he knows he can't win and would only tear this party up not unlike the way the teabaggers have torn up the GOP.

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

36. Are you accusing Sanders, or those who would campaign for a liberal,

to be on par with the tea partiers?

[sabrina 1]

44. Wrong, he would unite this party like no one else could. I hope he runs

and we know what to expect. The smear campaigns are probably already being bought and paid for. But in this period of time, most people are aware of the money being spent to maintain the status quo and people are sick and tired of the status quo and are a lot more aware than we were just ten years ago.

[Gman]

46. If I could hand pick someone to be president it would be Sanders

I don't know. These days, anything is really possible. Who would have thought in 2004 that that Black freshman Senator from Illinois with a name that made everyone say, "Who?" and gave that great speech at the convention would he a two-term president?

[sabrina 1]

47. Yes, but those who make these decisions are not particularly fond of real

Progressives and I doubt they would be overly fond of Sen. Sanders. But there are way more of us than there are of them. And if we want him for president we can overcome the Corporate, behind-the-scenes manipulators of our electoral system.

They want and are no doubt already spending money on, a Status Quo candidate. WE want someone who wants what we want for the country.

In the end I think it is up to us, the people.

[stevenleser]

120. You are one of those who make those decisions with your vote. You're not fond of progressives?

There is a primary process. To win takes votes of grassroots people.

[sabrina 1]

127. ??

Is there anything in anything I have EVER said here out of over 35,000 comments that caused you to think that I don't like Progressives? I don't understand your comment. Sanders IS a Progressive.

If he runs that is who I will be supporting and I can say with confidence that almost every other Progressive I know will do the same so long as he is in the race.

We are not stupid enough NOT to know that he will become a target of Big Money and that we the people don't have the kind of money that will be thrown at defeating him.

The fact that more Progressive candidates don't win in the primaries has far more to do with money than anything else.

The BUY their candidates. But OWS eg has awakened a large part of the population to that fact and imo, Corporate Donations should be a huge issue in 2016. Iow, it should be used against candidates who are accepting huge donations from corporations and those donations should be exposed in the campaigns.

It's a very sad thing to watch right now that only potential candidates who are assured of huge corporate donations are being pushed three years ahead of the election.

Now is the time for the people to start talking about these issues and the candidates THEY want.

[rhett o rick]

152. Dont you think that money can influence the grassroots people? Dont you agree that

Citizens United may alter politics from now on? Of course the system is based on the number of votes a candidate gets, but elections are heavily influenced by money. Populace candidates are not apt to be able to fund a campaign to compete with the favorites of Corporate America.

[bvar22]

156. "The Grass Roots"

The Arkansas Democratic Primary was a heart breaking eye opener for the Grass Roots and Organized LABOR. We were given a Look Behind the Curtain,
and it wasn't very pretty.

[font size=3]The Grass Roots did EVERYTHING right in Arkansas in 2010.
We did EXACTLY what the White House asked us to do to "give the President Progressives in Congress that would work with him."[/font]

We organized and supported Lt Governor Bill Halter, the Pro-LABOR/ Pro-Health Care challenger to DINO Obstructionist Blanche Lincoln.
Halter was:

* Polling BETTER against the Republicans in the General,

*was popular in Arkansas in his OWN right,

*had an Up & Running Political machine,

* had a track record of winning elections (Lt. Governor)

*Had the full backing of Organized LABOR and The Grass Roots activists

*was handing Blanche her Anti-LABOR ass in The Primary until the White House stepped in

*Blanche had NO chance of winning the General in Arkansas

Guess what happened.
Our BIGGEST enemy to bring "change" to The Senate was NOT The "Obstructionist" Republicans.
NO!
Our BIGGEST enemy to bring "change" to The Senate was The Obama White House!

The White House stepped in at the last minute to save Blanche's failing primary campaign with an Oval Office Endorsement of The Witch that Wrecked the Obama Agenda,
and Bill Clinton was dispatched on a Campaign Tour for Blanche around the state bashing Organized LABOR and "Liberals" at every opportunity.

White House steps in to rescue Lincoln’s Primary Campaign in Arkansas

"So what did the Democratic Party establishment do when a Senator who allegedly impedes their agenda faced a primary challenger who would be more supportive of that agenda? They engaged in full-scale efforts to support Blanche Lincoln.

* Bill Clinton traveled to Arkansas to urge loyal Democrats to vote for her, bashing liberal groups for good measure.

*Obama recorded an ad for Lincoln which, among other things, were used to tell African-American primary voters that they should vote for her because she works for their interests.

*The entire Party infrastructure lent its support and resources to Lincoln — a Senator who supposedly prevents Democrats from doing all sorts of Wonderful, Progressive Things which they so wish they could do but just don’t have the votes for.

<snip>

What happened in this race also gives the lie to the insufferable excuse we’ve been hearing for the last 18 months from countless Obama defenders: namely, if the Senate doesn’t have 60 votes to pass good legislation, it’s not Obama’s fault because he has no leverage over these conservative Senators. It was always obvious what an absurd joke that claim was; the very idea of The Impotent, Helpless President, presiding over a vast government and party apparatus, was laughable. But now, in light of Arkansas, nobody should ever be willing to utter that again with a straight face.

Back when Lincoln was threatening to filibuster health care if it included a public option, the White House could obviously have said to her: if you don’t support a public option, not only will we not support your re-election bid, but we’ll support a primary challenger against you. Obama’s support for Lincoln did not merely help; it was arguably decisive, as The Washington Post documented today:"

<much more>

http://www.salon.com/2010/06/10/lincoln_6/

When the supporters of Pro-LABOR Lt Gov Bill Halter asked the White House WHY they threw their support behind Lincoln at the last minute, rescuing her failing campaign, the answer was ridicule and insults to Organized LABOR and the Grass Roots.

Ed Schultz sums up my feeling perfectly in the following clip.
http://videocafe.crooksandliars.com/heather/ed-schultz-if-it-wasnt-labor-barack-obama-

Union Thugs take an ass whipping from time to time,
but we NEVER forget a Sucker Punch & WHO Threw it.[/font]

Waking away from the Arkansas Democratic Primary,
many activists arrived at the conclusion that the Democratic Party leadership clearly preferred that seat going to a Big Business Friendly Republican,
than to let a real Pro-LABOR Democrat have a chance at it.
I found it difficult to argue with that conclusion.

[druidity33]

167. TESTIFY brother! (or sister)...

Thank you for reminding us of the Arkansas Debacle. True Progressives have not often been encouraged by this administration. I wonder why...

K&R

[bvar22]

169. Thats not the first time...

... I have witnessed the Party interfering in local Democratic Party Primaries,
and using National Money to steamroll local grassroots candidates.


This thread from Minnesota, 2005 is interesting:
http://metamorphosis.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=160x14207
The local Liberal, Grassroots candidate actually posted to this thread after Rahm's Thugs and the DCCC made him an offer he couldn't refuse.

or google: "DCCC Kingmaking"

Democratic Primaries are rigged WORSE than national Elections when is comes to Fixing It so the Business Friendly Conservative WINS!!!

I seriously don't know what the solution is,
but my Wife & I moved to The Woods in Arkansas and started growing our own food soon after the episode in Minnesota.
We weren't really surprised to see the National Democratic Party rescue the Witch Who Killed the Public Option.

The hardest part was enduring the taunts and ridicule from the White House
for supporting a Pro-LABOR Democratic challenger, and watching the Oval Office Endorsement of The Witch Who Killed the Public Option played 24/7 the week before the Democratic Primary.
.
.
.
.
I'm STILL mad at that betrayal...
and so are a lot of other Pro-LABOR Arkansas Democrats.

[Beacool]

116. That senator from IL was a centrist then and now.

[rhett o rick]

99. The problem I see is that the Democratic Party would never let him win a primary if

he was a Democrat. The Party hierarchy are corporatists and have their candidate already chosen. If he ran as an independent, he would split the vote.

Just look at DU, supposedly "politically liberal". It would split this site wide open. Some here wont vote any more progressive than Ms. Clinton, swearing that she really is liberal.

[sabrina 1]

102. I think the people just have to ignore the political class from on, they've been

failing miserably to produce a government that benefits the people for so long now that their 'expert' opinions don't mean much. Besideds, to quote them, they all have an agenda. I laugh when they accuse others of having an agenda.

If someone like Bernie or Grayson decided to run they could win if the people were sufficiently committed to making it happen. With the internet and the new media the chances for someone not chosen and backed by the party are a bit better.

But I agree that the party system blocks good people like Sanders from running successfully.

[rhett o rick]

150. The Powers To Be (PTB) will not let a populace candidate win the presidency.

They have too much at stake and have the power to manipulate just about whatever they want. The move to total electronic voting without any oversight will allow the PTB to control elections. And the sheeple among us are tickled to death to think as long as they vote, they are free.

For 30 years the PTB have been fleecing the middle class. You'd think the middle class would get tired of it.

[KittyWampus]

110. you mean the Democratic party allowed Obama and not Hillary to win the primary?

LOL

[rhett o rick]

149. How do you think he won? nm

[Beacool]

191. Technically that's true.

Neither one won the nomination outright. The super delegates were the ones who decided on the nominee.

[RoccoR5955]

19. If Bernie ran for president

I would quit my job, and go broke campaigning for him!

You wouldn't see me around here during that time either, as I would spend each and every waking hour working to see that WE THE PEOPLE finally get a president!

[Phlem]

20. "Wow. If Bernie ran...DU would go crazy ! I was amazed to read this."

Exactly! For an Independent none the less, to me that speaks volumes.

I'm with you, 150% behind Bernie.

-p

[Grey]

21. I love Bernie…… nt

[Marrah_G]

22. I would enthusiastically support him and volunteer for his campaign

[maindawg]

23. he would be

eliminated

[socialist_n_TN]

45. That would be a consideration I would think.....

ESPECIALLY if he started getting some traction.

[TBF]

80. Sadly that is probably

the most accurate comment in this thread.

Bernie is way too independent and principled to be let anywhere near the presidency.

[northoftheborder]

24. Just think, though, of his progressive ideas having a national exposure.....'Twould be fascinating!

[zeemike]

25. Sanders Warren has a ring to it

Or evem Warrem Samders...
Music to my ears...even if it is only in my dreams.

[Cal33]

31. Warren, Sanders, Grayson......they're all okay with me. It's about time we had a progressive in

the White House.

[global1]

26. In The Primaries He Would Be The Only Candidate....

saying things like "Lift The Cap" and perhaps give more exposure to those things that other Dems might not say and certainly things that no Repug would say. More people would be exposed to his wisdom and that would be good for the country. I hope he runs for that reason even if he doesn't have a chance to win against a Hillary.

[winter is coming]

57. +1. Far too often, it's only the no-hopers who are willing to speak unvarnished truth. n/t

[idwiyo]

27. k&r

[Bette Noir]

28. I love him dearly, but isn't he a little old to run?

We don't want to kill him off.

[sabrina 1]

105. No he isn't too old to run. He appears to me to be in better shape both

physically and especially mentally and intellectually than half of DC right now. Anyone can die in office. Young or old.

I'd rather have him for two or three years than someone who is 'young' but who is working for the Corporations. Maybe with a good Progressive Dem Congress to back him up he could in even a short time break the cycle of abuse of the system that has been going on and start turning things around.

[socialist_n_TN]

29. As I said in another thread on this topic, sometime you don't run to win, sometimes.........

you run to give a platform for your views.

[DesertFlower]

30. he'd get my vote, but he'd

never get elected.

[WillyT]

32. K & R !!!

[gopiscrap]

33. Go Bernie

[polichick]

34. "But what I do think is there needs to be a progressive voice in the presidential process." YES!

[tkmorris]

35. Shut up and take my money!

I would devote my very life to getting every vote for him humanly possible. He is a true Liberal's liberal.

[IrishAyes]

37. Love Bernie to pieces, but he hasn't got a snowball's chance on a hot griddle to get in the WH

So he really doesn't need to split the Dem vote. Think about that before you let him unintentionally hand the election to a Repuke because that's what will happen if he runs. W/O fail!

[grahamhgreen]

135. Neither did Obama:)

[IrishAyes]

171. True, true; but their circumstances were different, and they're different men.

Sweet and beloved as he may be, Bernie's still an old white man, w/o the power of a major party backing him. All the difference in the world, my friend. Also you know Hillary's going to run if she's even breathing at all, and Bernie would have to beat her. Fat chance. He'd only wind up splitting the non-GOP vote and dooming us all.

[blondie58]

38. Omg!! That would be awesome

Sanders/Warren would be alright with me. 🌟

[snappyturtle]

39. Big K&R! nt

[woo me with science]

40. K&R

Last edited Tue Oct 29, 2013, 01:31 AM - Edit history (1)

I would crawl through glass to see him elected.

[Egalitarian Thug]

48. He's too short to be elected, and too smart to want it.

But he could, and I hope will, become a Kingmaker in the not-too-distant future.

[LiberalAndProud]

50. Be still, my heart!

Did somebody already say that?

Something good would come of a Sanders campaign, I'm sure of it.

[George II]

51. As interesting as that sounds, it'll never happen

[99th_Monkey]

137. Why be a nay-sayer on something so crucial? nt

[George II]

142. I'm not being a naysayer, I'm being practical - why waste energy on something that is close....

...to impossible?

It took almost two hundred years to elect a Catholic President. Do you really think the vast majority of voters in the country are going to vote for a Jewish candidat, and one from Vermont via Brooklyn?

[99th_Monkey]

147. Yes

I really do think the vast majority of American voters have been paying
very close attention to how they continue to be dumped-on, ignored, abused
and betrayed by our Tweedle-dee/Tweedle-dumb 2-party system; a system
that rewards corporate control & corruption of everything in sight, including
the election system, and our monetary system.

Bernie stand out, as a singularly honest and decent human being who clearly
is dedicated to the collective welfare of our nation; and who knows how it
all works enough to make REAL changes that will matter for decades and
centuries into the future.

Why would ANYone not want that? It would not be the first time that an aware
electorate upends the seemingly "inevitable" go-along/get-along ho-hum out-
of-touch traitors in Congress, who have sold us all out. See 1968, when Sen.
Eugene McCarthy announced his run for the presidency; against an incumbent
Democrat POTUS. The entire political landscape changed virtually overnight.

The same could happen with Bernie. He may not make it all the way to the
WH, but it would definitely force some much-needed, long-overdue changes in
high places.

Come on: just say "Go Bernie!!" .. you know you want to.

[seabeyond]

52. i can do sanders as long as he runs dem and doesnt split vote. nt

[GreenPartyVoter]

53. Would the Dems have him? He seems to be to the left of the party as far as most

of the presidential candidates who have run in recent years.

I would also worry about the vote splitting issue. Not having some sort of ranked or approval voting makes me crazy!

[seabeyond]

56. i think he could make it as a dem. i do not think what he says is out there. he is pretty right on

without being an extremist. most people know what he is saying, just many of the dems are too afraid, or will cut into their rewards. but i do not think he is a kucinivich. (sp, i know, could never spell his name)

[AAO]

65. That's right, Bernie is far from an extremist, unless you get you news from Rush or Fucks.

[watoos]

55. Sanders - Castro / 2016

What do ya think?

[xfundy]

76. Sanders and which Castro?

Do tell.

[beerandjesus]

92. Julian Castro.

And I think it would be an amazing ticket. 100% support.

[brooklynite]

58. Please explain how a Bernie Sanders wins...

...the fact that YOU like him doesn't mean that a majority of voters does. So please explain clearly which States he's competitive in.

Or is winning not important?

[steve2470]

59. I'm just relaying information here

Sanders is the 2013 version of McGovern. I really don't think he would win. Many of us here on DU would vote for him, but DU is not representative of the entire country. I was frankly shocked to see him say this.

[Zorra]

63. He would most likely win the same states as Hillary Clinton would, maybe a few more even.

What has Hillary Clinton got to offer that Bernie doesn't, except for another probable bankster guided Presidency?

[RandiFan1290]

73. Settle down

Your precious $$ is safe

[cali]

95. He doesn't. And winning is important but so is influencing positions

of dems running and pushing center right figures like Hillary, to the left. and yes, he potentially could do that if he ran.

[NorthCarolina]

195. Hillary would not be pushed to the left. She may be forced to talk more progressive during

the campaign, but nothing would endure past the election. Remember campaign Obama on things like NAFTA, a Public Option, Transparency? Just campaign rhetoric for the masses, nothing more.

[polichick]

112. Another "only establishment/corporate candidates can win" post...

Dems are as manipulated and blind as teabaggers.

[brooklynite]

121. By no means...

...but electability IS an important factor, since the alternative is a Republican who will be far worse.

BTW - I had dinner with Bernie Sanders back in 2011...just him and his wife and me and my wife. But we were all at a DSCC retreat, where deep pockets 1%ers helped raise money for Senate candidates, including Bob Casey, Claire McCaskill and Joe Donnelly. Sure that's not too much of a sellout for you?

[polichick]

122. You've posted a lot about "electability" - always suggesting the establishment candidate...

is the only electable one.

That's a load that the establishment depends on voters to believe. And as long as people buy it, nothing will change.

[brooklynite]

124. I make an informed choice based on the options available.

Bernie Sanders...has had a safe seat in a State where turnout is less than 300,000. I need to see evidence that he can appeal to moderate and (horrors!) conservative Democrats as well as middle of the road Republicans and Independents who also get to vote.

Elizabeth Warren...not running

Alan Grayson...not running

Martin O'Malley? Might consider him, but if Hillary runs, I'd hazard a guess that he'll pass.

I've already reached out personally to Brian Scweitzer, who I'd like to see run.

But feel free to share the name of other people who are running, or who you've made the effort to encourage. Otherwise this is just fantasy politicking.

(btw - was my mayoral choice of Bill De Blasio too corporatist for you?)

[polichick]

125. We have NO idea who's running yet - Clinton hasn't even announced...

But the idea of who's electable is a belief before it's a reality.

That belief is why the 1% own almost everything in this country.

[brooklynite]

136. Don't want to disappoint you...

...but the 2016 election started last year at the Charlotte Convention. While nobody will make a formal announcement until 2015, anyone seriously considering a run is already out lining up financial backers, making visits to Iowa and New Hampshire and providing support to candidates who can turn around and support them later. That's why Schweitzer was willing to take a meeting with me, rather than simply say he hasn't decided yet.

And, even if NOBODY has really decided, are you ready to accept whatever candidates decide to run, or are you going make your own effort to find a candidate who meets your exacting standards?

[polichick]

140. What "exacting standards?" - a Dem that represents the people...

rather than whores for corporations and the 1%? lol

If that's too "exacting," there's no hope for this country.

[Bluenorthwest]

115. If this 'we know who can win and who can't' crap had any merit, we'd never lose, but we do.

Want some links to DUers saying Obama could not win? There were pages of them. And yet he won. The folks who claimed to know all years in advance were certain it would be Hillary vs Rudy. But it wasn't. The people know the pundits and pros are just saying that which would bring them advantage is that which is certain to happen.
Also, there are many reasons to run in an election other than winning, especially in a Primary contest. This thread, for those of us not threatened by the idea, is about Sanders running, which in and of itself could be a powerful influence on the process and on the country. I notice the mere mention of the dialog that would occur causes a strong reaction. Makes it seem very worth doing.

[Wilms]

138. OMG! I saw the reply subject line and thought of you.

And I was right!

"Paging DLC/Hillary Brigade. Clean up on DU Greatest page. STAT!"

LOL!

[okieinpain]

173. are you serious, its not the winning that matters

It's the thought that counts. Lol.

[Wilms]

61. Count me as a volunteer, Bernie.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

62. EEK!! A Fringe, EmoProg, Impractical, 3rd Party, SOCIALIST!!

Quick! Break out the The List and start looking for pole dancers!!

[JDPriestly]

66. I'd volunteer!

[KharmaTrain]

67. Talk About Dysfunctional Government...

...while I am a big admirer of Senator Sanders he'd be a nightmare as President. As an "independent" he would have no political base to push forward any agenda. If anything, he'd meet a lot of opposition. Not only would our rushpublican friends go major apeshit over a "socialist" being President but there'd also be a lot of Democrats who would see it in their political interests that they cooperate as little as possible. It'd be major gridlock and the corporate media would be all over a President Sanders like a cheap suit.

Hopefully Senator Sanders will continue in his role as the conscience of the Senate. He's a valuable voice to counter the unhinged right wing and the more seniority he gains the more influence he has. While being a party of one works against an executive, it works in his favor in the legislative as being a deal maker...

[xfundy]

77. Bravo.

In a nutshell, you've described how fucked our political system is.

Politicians concerned only with their reelection posibilities and money, greasing and working the machine. No "of,by,for" the people.

Why do we accept this?

[steve2470]

78. Rush et al would be screaming SOCIALIST COMMUNIST from the top of their lungs constantly

Yes, some would not be scared off and would see through the BS, but I'm afraid so many would read/hear those words and not even consider him. I'm not sure socialism is ready for primetime yet. Maybe it is, if he ran as a socialist, we'd definitely find out.

JMHO. Yes, I know he's not a Communist but that would be the non-stop propaganda from the RW.

[beerandjesus]

93. You're right, but the funny thing is.....

...they've already screamed that so loudly about Obama the centrist that a good chunk of those who would join in would have no idea what order of magnitude they were looking at.

As a Democrat, he probably would do quite well, because the only people who would be deterred by the "socialist" epithet are the ones who wouldn't vote for him anyway. Whether Bernie actually is a socialist is almost irrelevant.


#boywhocriedwolf

[NorthCarolina]

196. It will be a bit tougher for them though, because Bernie is White. nt

[Enthusiast]

85. The Righties® have already screamed, "Socialist!" if I'm not mistaken.

Obviously dysfunction serves the .01%. That is why we are currently mired in dysfunction. But your concerns are valid ones.

Bernie is my very most favorite congressman. I hope he is grooming a senate replacement for himself, for the day he hangs it up.

[dreamnightwind]

68. He should run as a Democrat

The primary is the place for this. I'd support him with everything I've got.

If no real progressive runs, we all lose. The solutions to this nation's ills are on the left, not in the middle, partly because the powers that be have made sure nothing left of center gets done for a long long time, and partly because the left supports the 99% over the needs of the 1% whose needs are well taken care of.

We badly need a national conversation about so many issues which neither party currently discusses at all. Most of these issues would naturally fit well with what the Democratic Party is supposed to be about. So someone on the left with some clout needs to step up, and we need to get behind them. Bernie is probably the best possible guy for that role. Grayson, Warren, maybe a couple of others would be fine also, but someone needs to do it, and not in the Kucinich way, someone needs to step up and give some serious momentum to progressive policies.

[NorthCarolina]

197. ^^^THIS^^^. nt

[OutNow]

69. I'm ready to write my first check to the "Sanders for President" campaign

I've supported Bernie Sanders since he was a mayor in Vermont. I've contributed to his campaigns since he ran his first campaign for the House. I'm ready to help and only wish I was younger and had more energy.

[Stevepol]

70. Go Bernie!! All the Way!!

[B Calm]

72. He would run as a socialist, be honest, what do you think his chances would be?

I would vote for him in a heartbeat, but what about the redneck hick in southern Indiana?

[Enthusiast]

86. Few Southern Indiana redneck hicks would vote for anyone to the left of Genghis Kahn.

I know about redneck hicks, I am surrounded by them here in Ohio.

Funny thing about redneck hicks. They don't even know what a socialist is but they know it's something bad because Limbaugh told them so. Watch out for those socialists, "They're coming for our guns!"

[Le Taz Hot]

74. If Bernie announced a presidential run,

certain individuals on DU would be writing macros: "But he's unelectable in the General. Only Hillary is electable!" Come to think of it, they can just brush off their old macros and insert "Hillary" where "Kerry" used to be.

I would LOVE to have someone to vote FOR for once.

[Enthusiast]

87. "I would LOVE to have someone to vote FOR for once."

Me too, Le Taz Hot. Me too. I thought we had someone in 2008. I was mistaken.

[NorthCarolina]

79. I Wish. nt

[bravenak]

81. Him just running would pull the debate to the left.

And that's a great thing.

[Enthusiast]

88. This is true, bravenak.

Very good point.

And they can't say he sees UFOs, either.

[cui bono]

114. Yeah, they'd have to change the debate rules yet again and raise the polling percentage

to keep him out like they did with Nader and others.

[AzDar]

82. Bernie!

[Enthusiast]

89. K&R! By God, I love Bernie Sanders!

If he got close to winning in the polls, the same Fascists that killed the Kennedy's would probably kill Bernie.

[Autumn]

90. Oh Bernie

[Nanjing to Seoul]

97. please please please please please please please please please please please please please please

please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please

[HomerRamone]

100. As a (half-) Jew I'd like to point out the Elephant In The Room

Especially after a "Muslim" President

[CarrieLynne]

101. OMG Sanders/Warren oh please oh please oh please oh please!!!!

[polichick]

117. That would be wonderful!

[AndyA]

104. Yes!

How often is Bernie the only person in Washington who makes sense?

[Myrina]

106. This would be so awesome!!

I know he'd be Diebolded faster than Howard Dean was, but can you imagine having someone up on the debate stage who's actually addressing the working folks' issues? From a common sense perspective? Finally?

What a breath of fresh air that would be!!!

[JimboBillyBubbaBob]

107. Do it man, do it!

It would be the ultimate of cool!

[fredamae]

108. If Bernie Runs

There will be celebration across the country - But most importantly? I truly believe he would win and by Historical Margins!

He's not "hooked up" with the Wall Street Elite from Either Dems nor GOP....and that matters a Lot because he WILL work for the People and protect the investments of our tax dollars in the same way We would if we had a seat at the table-which was long ago Jerked from beneath our rear ends...by both Dems and GOP.

(I say that with first hand experience, btw. The "Dem Party" cautioned me Not to let the door hit me in my ass on the way out--because I won't "sit down and shut up" about concerns I have re: the Wall Street Wing-they don't want to hear that.)

[avaistheone1]

123. OMG!

That would be wonderful.

But is would be bad only in the sense I would have to go out and get a second job so I can send him buckets of money.

[99th_Monkey]

130. OMG!! Yes yes Bernie. Just DO IT. with Warren as VP. ~nt~

[Adrahil]

132. I love Bernie, but he stands no chance in the generals... nt

[grahamhgreen]

139. Not true - he's very popular among independents and R's In Vermont & NH.

[Adrahil]

145. I'd like to believe he stands a chance, but I just can't see him winning in VA and OH... do you? nt

[grahamhgreen]

159. Absolutely. His positions are the same as the majority in both those states. Just

his position on a flat tax for Social Security, and an end to the costly trade agreements should put him over the top.

The people are ready, IMHO.

However, I don't think he will run.

[Adrahil]

160. If he runs, I'll hear him out.

But I honestly don't think he could convince me he's electable on a national basis.

[ChiciB1]

141. Sanders / Warren OR

Warren / Sanders! Something that makes my heart beat faster & louder! A real dream, but given how weird this country has become, VERY hard to believe this could happen!

FWIW, it's a DREAM I'd love to have come true.

[bvar22]

143. WOW.

Wouldn't it be great to actually vote FOR someone again,
instead of voting against the Republican and having to settle for a 1/2 Republican
as the country keeps sliding ever to the conservative Right?

That is something I can get All Fired Up about.

[Tarheel_Dem]

144. George McGovern won MA. That's it. MA for a whopping total of 17 electoral votes.

[socialist_n_TN]

181. How long ago was that? 40 years.........

"Sensible centrists" are always fighting the LAST war, not the current one.

[Tarheel_Dem]

184. And ideologues are always losing!

[2banon]

146. Wishful Thinking, And I'd Support Bernie on the drop of a dime..

busting ass to get him elected..

But this isn't going to happen, folks, the Corporate Dems who control the party already selected their candidate (HLC)...

But I really like the idea of Bernie tossing his hat in. K&R

[liberal_at_heart]

148. oh, please please please! That would mean I would actually get to vote for a democrat in the

presidential election.

[KamaAina]

157. If nothing else, that would cinch up his Ben & Jerry's flavor.

I can't believe he doesn't have one already. Pecan Sanders, anyone?

[Agnosticsherbet]

158. Bernie would have to change parties, as he ran as an independant

who labels himself a Democratic Socialist or a Social Democrat. As an independent, he caucused with the Democratic Party but was never a Democrat. If he were going to run in the Democratic Party primary he would have to declare himself a member of the Democratic party, otherwise he would not be accepted as a primary candidate.

An independent run would be interesting but he would have a very difficult time getting real traction because of the difficulty of getting on the ballot in all fifty states. (Each state has different rules.) It would take a lot of money, at least a hundred million dollars to start. A competitive run for the Presidency would require about billion dollars. (2012 price tag came to 2 billion.)

[ancianita]

161. With Howard Dean running the party, Sanders/Warren or Sanders/Castro would have a rat's ass chance.

[SpankMe]

162. I love Bernie all to heck...but,

...he'll be something like 75 in 2016. He doesn't seem in all that excellent health. A campaign against Hillary would take a lot out of him.

[colsohlibgal]

163. It's A Nice Thing To Contemplate

The trouble is, the way it all works now, he'll get marginalized out, not included, and be compared to the far right as if it's the same thing.

The major press did it to Russ Feingold and Dennis Kucinich, and they'll unfortunately do it to Bernie. I mean all that wacky talk about a level playing field, we can't have that kind of crazy talk. Get ready for another pro corporate neo democrat, Hillary - though the other day she seemed to be trying to stake a position further left. I'm skeptical but we'll see.

[AAO]

166. The DNC would trun him into Herman Caine.

Nine, Nine, NINE!!!

[antigop]

168. LOL...watch the DLC/Third Way sycophants squirm..such fun!

(I love Bernie, but I think his age will be a factor.)

[okieinpain]

172. dukakis part two. lol.

[MADem]

175. He's seventy two years old. Anything could happen but I'd be surprised. nt

[lordsummerisle]

176. I like him in the senate

He has a lot of influence there now, for example bring picked for the budget committee.

[mother earth]

177. K & R!!!! Bernie Sanders for President!!!!! Sounds WONDERFUL, somebody pinch me!

[True Blue Door]

178. Sanders is right on the issues, but inspires little confidence as a leader.

There has always been a contingent in our party and our side of the spectrum that doesn't know the difference between being right and making progress. Sanders, Kucinich, etc. - they take the right positions, they say the right things, and then...nothing happens, because they don't know how to translate their knowledge into political substance. In the rare circumstances where they rise to the Presidency (e.g., Carter), the whole federal bureaucracy just ignores them and waits them out, until the next Republican can just wave away all of their well-meaning initiatives in an instant because they failed to get legislation passed. And they never, ever see it coming when the institutional powers set them up to fail. The Democratic Party has to always keep in mind that morality and political competence are not mutually exclusive, and neither one is optional.

[mother earth]

179. Please, he inspires great confidence in all of us, he'd be wonderful & if he runs...it will be the

greatest gift to we the people.

Waving away well-meaning initiatives? Hah! The people would be so behind Sanders it would make their heads explode.
He's not a dem, nor a GOP'er....he's perfection - if he runs....I'm so there, and that kind of exuberance and devotion would be absolutely contagious....he'd rise to the top immediately.

IMMEDIATELY....did I say immediately? Cuz it would be instantaneous!

WATCH this thread explode to the top too.

[True Blue Door]

180. Passion is not magic.

And politics does not consist of issue checklists. It consists of the ability to navigate relationships in order to accomplish objectives.

If what you're saying had the least bit connection to what actually happens in government, we would just now be coming out of the two terms of the Howard Dean administration and entering the first term of his former Vice President. Speeches don't build roads, and rating scores from advocacy groups don't build schools.

There is no magic Political Jesus who is so righteous that he can obviate the process of political sausage-making just by being in office.

While I'm always open to being surprised, his career tells me that a Sanders Presidency would mostly be symbolic, and almost assuredly one-term.

[mother earth]

199. Spoken by someone who clearly has not experienced passion, so sad. Though you are right,

if we had election reform, undoubtedly we would have had Howard Dean in office, I thoroughly believe the shenanigans of the GW stolen elections screwed us out of the clear people's choice from the get go. Chew on that, what we get is what TPTB want until we get two things; campaign finance reform & election (integrity & verification) reform.

We have been screwed over & over by those that have hijacked our system of democracy/gov't.

A Sanders presidency would not only be symobolic as you say, it would mean that we could effectively safeguard & change what the bastards have rendered broken.

You think that would mean one term? If so, you highly underestimate the people & Bernie Sanders, to your own detriment.

[True Blue Door]

202. I'm passionately rational, and rationally passionate.

if we had election reform, undoubtedly we would have had Howard Dean in office

But the fact that we don't have election reform proves that passion is not magic. You have to be a reality-based leader to change anything - otherwise Kucinich and Sanders et al would have gotten everything we want passed a long time ago.

I thoroughly believe the shenanigans of the GW stolen elections screwed us out of the clear people's choice from the get go.

The fact that Bush was an unelected tyrant doesn't negate the fact that Howard Dean was a poor campaigner.

A Sanders presidency would not only be symobolic as you say, it would mean that we could effectively safeguard & change what the bastards have rendered broken.

You do know we have three branches of government, right?

You think that would mean one term? If so, you highly underestimate the people & Bernie Sanders, to your own detriment.

Elections aren't won on issues, but on perceptions and campaigns. The fact that that sucks doesn't change the fact that it's true, and ignoring or denying it gets you nowhere. That's why this country endured two terms of Richard Nixon, Ronald Reagan, and George W. Bush (who still got half the country, even if he didn't actually win legitimately). Not one of those men deserved to be called an American, let alone put in a position of authority, and any sane person who looked at their actions would know that. But democracies don't function like abstract intellectual exercises. They unfold through the thoughts and emotions of real people.

It's the ability to step outside of abstractions and into the real world that distinguishes a leader from an academic, and we have far too few leaders among progressives and a few too many academics merely pretending to be leaders while blaming others for their failure to achieve results. Dennis Kucinich is positively adored on the left for basically doing nothing, and the warm-fuzzy feelings from a morally upstanding speech don't feed families or build schools. The ability to work with the various parasites that make up daily politics is what feeds families and builds schools.

[mother earth]

203. I'm with you TBD, but don't you see? The reality is that IF things were not corrupt & up for grabs

in every shape and form, we would INDEED be able to accomplish all of the things we need, all those warm and fuzzy things that continually escape our grasp.

Realism be damned, it's not being a realist, it's that we've grown accustomed to expecting the very least from those in office.

If for once we only did what was "right and just" instead of the opposite. Corruption and a bankrupt democracy, that's why our Kucinich's and our Deans do not go on, they are stymied and beset with facilitated failure. I know that Dean should have had that primary, TPTB wanted Kerry, he was easier to beat at least in their eyes.

I no longer make excuses for what's taking place, the reality is that democracy is broken and rendered dysfunctional. That's reality.
No sunshine there...now what are we going to do? Do we continue to accept bipartisanship, as though partisanship is the issue.

Get special monied interests out of our campaigns, then we can have our moment of triumph. Until then, neither of us is dealing in reality, including you. We want the same things, we just disagree on what gets us there. Middle of the road...it's passé, a thousand times over, it's rendered us this long, hard road to nowhere. I suspect we will continue on it, the parasites are winning, my friend.

(BTW, Welcome to DU, )

[True Blue Door]

204. I'm with you too, but think of it like this.

There's an obstacle in our way. What should we do?

1. Try complaining about it.

We complain at it, but it doesn't go away. At this point a reality-based activist tries something else, but someone who thinks their own feelings about the problem are more important than solving it will just keep doing the same failed thing over, and over, and over. They'll believe that being right is its own solution, and yet the obstacle still won't move.

2. Try reasoning with it.

Sometimes an obstacle really is just a result of people who don't know what they're doing, so sometimes reasoning works. But if it doesn't work, again, you have to move on. Can't make a fetish out of a given method.

3. Try impassioned pleas.

Maybe the people responsible just aren't logical thinkers, and need to hear arguments from emotions and values. This sometimes works, but if it doesn't...gotta move on. Even if you yourself are an emotional thinker, you can't keep doing this over and over despite not succeeding with it.

4. Try bargaining.

Like it or not, democracy does not permit perfection. Ever. "Perfect" systems are the domain of dictatorships, and even then they're just lies. So whatever you accomplish is going to involve a lot of dirty compromises. Social Security and Medicare are dirty compromises that were totally worth it. Those who wanted more dismissed them as pitiful half-measures and their proponents as corrupt weaklings, but the proof has been in the pudding. But if you can't find enough common ground to make a beneficial arrangement, then you have to move on. This is where the DLC types have trouble - they never admit when their counterparts can't be dealt with civilly, and just give and give like Neville Chamberlain until they're basically carrying water for their own opponents.

5. Move around the obstacle.

When it's clear that no amount of complaining, reasoning, cajoling, or bargaining can resolve the problem, then just move around it. If possible, it's a lot cheaper to build a road around a hill than to carve a tunnel through it. But sometimes even this isn't possible.

6. Fight.

So then you have to fight, and you're not fighting for perfection - just to force the other side back to a point where one of the earlier approaches will work.

Guys like Kucinich, Sanders, and so on get stuck somewhere between 1 and 3. They don't care if what they do doesn't have results, because they can always blame other people's imperfection. For them it's about being right, not about making progress. Well, their righteousness doesn't build schools or get wrongfully convicted people out of jail. It just makes them feel better, and makes the people who put them on a pedestal feel better. That's not an accomplishment, it's an excuse for failure.

[mother earth]

205. If enough people were #6, we'd fight and WIN guys like Kucinich & Sanders, it's not

about being right, it's about DOING right, you are excusing middle of the road, and centrism has brought us to this juncture.
You & I may never reach full agreement, I only hope there will always be Kucinich's & Sanders around & I will continue to hope we don't SETTLE for what you are viewing as accomplishment.

It's not a feat to reach middle of the road consensus, it's what happens when we allow our system to cater to big money & be LAZY in representing our needs.

You are happy with centrism, I never will be, ever. That's no failure, no excuse, it's going to happen, because we have given the status quo our all, lazily, and it's giving us this BS and excuse for democracy we "enjoy" today. That's not victory, that's giving it away instead of fighting for what's right.

There's no choice, the right has been tried to death & is on downward spiral death throes, and centrism is a failure, an absolute failure, how dare we accept that as the best we can accomplish. It is our duty to challenge and hold our reps accountable.

I don't know if Bernie Sanders will run, but I hope he does, it will make believers out of us all. He's the real deal, I don't have to sell it, he is all that and more. There are three people who could rev up the base like no one else, Sanders, Warren & Grayson. If they choose to run, watch out world...catching fire will be the new norm. No one can do that, those three can.

[True Blue Door]

206. Progressivism has to be reality-based to succeed, and that's always been true.

When it fails to be reality-based, it simply doesn't do anything - just retreats into smug, self-satisfied failure. "Yeah, we didn't achieve anything, but we're still right! Yay us!" The propositions you're making are either testably, objectively incorrect or moot.

It's like saying "If only everyone else would stop being so imperfect and just accept our perfect plan, then everything would go right!" Well, they're not going to. This is reality. You have to work with people as what they are, whatever that is in any given case.

And if it were otherwise, we would already have won with people like Kucinich and Sanders. We would have had a McGovern administration instead of Richard Nixon. But we didn't. Because there are no excuses for failure in politics. If you can help millions of people with a compromise or help zero people by preening at your own perfection, the person who does the former is the progressive and the one who does the latter is nothing at all.

Lyndon Johnson was a rotten bastard, but he created Medicare. Jimmy Carter was and still is a deeply moral person and tried to imbue his administration with humane values, but mostly what we got out of him domestically were two terms of Ronald Reagan and all the horrors that have followed from it.

We elect people to work, not to be symbolic mascots. Kucinich and Sanders are not working legislators - they're entertainers who say things that make liberal activists like us feel warm and fuzzy. But not much ever comes of it for anyone else in this country. All their passion hasn't given us any of the things they advocate, and on the rare occasions something they have advocated came about, they played almost no role in making it happen. The word for them is "superfluous."

[mother earth]

207. No, the word for all politicians under the status quo is superfluous, the system is the problem, not

Last edited Sun Nov 3, 2013, 12:13 PM - Edit history (1)

the Sanders and Kucinichs, painting it otherwise is an enablement. You are promoting enablement of the don't rock the boat, do nothing, status quo. Don't you tire of the BS? Time to stop enabling it.

Never be thankful for the crumbs of a hijacked democracy, strive to end this mockery. We are simply not being represented, to lessen expectations of our ideals and to pretend it's some kind of "reality" based approach is such Orwellian drivel it is actually sickening. Wake up, lowered expectations does not a democracy make.

[True Blue Door]

208. I'm afraid you're posing a false dilemma

between do-nothing feel-good people and do-nothing feel-bad people. Real leaders don't care what something looks like - they only care what it is.

[Tarheel_Dem]

185. +1. Welcome to DU!

[gejohnston]

182. As much as I like Bernie and would vote for him if I lived in Vermont

him running for POTUS would have a poor outcome, unless he ran as a Democrat and got the Democratic nomination. Otherwise, he would split the left of center vote and almost ensure a Republican win.

[DissidentVoice]

183. I like Bernie a lot, but...

There's no way he'd win as an Independent, much less the Socialist that he openly professes to being.

If he declared as a Democrat, the DLC/Third Way crowd would do all they can to dilute his stances in the name of "electability."

[Douglas Carpenter]

186. If Senator Sanders runs, I will support him with all my heart, all my soul and all my mind

[MissDeeds]

189. +1000

And all the money I can spare.

[Douglas Carpenter]

188. Sen. Sander's economic message resonates with almost everyone across the entire political spectrum

- except with the rich. - EVERYONE KNOWS THIS

[mother earth]

200. ABSOLUTELY!!!!

[Hulk]

190. I would donate! His voice needs to be heard!

He doesn't stand a snowball's chance in hell, but his perspective and frank honesty need to be heard...nationwide. This is one of the few "great ones" in Congress today.

[silvershadow]

192. Sanders/Warren would be awesome! :) nt