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[darkangel218]

This message was self-deleted by its author (darkangel218) on Wed Oct 30, 2013, 02:45 AM. When the original post in a discussion thread is self-deleted, the entire discussion thread is automatically locked so new replies cannot be posted.

[leftstreet]

1. Ah jeez. This is why we need single payer n/t

[darkangel218]

2. Maybe.

But its not fair to cover maternity care and not regular prostate cancer screenings for men.

Are they not important??

[NoOneMan]

96. Prostate cancer screenings should be covered as well. Fight for that one. Not against the other.

But then it also comes down to a question: is the efficiency at improving health outcomes with early or abundant screenings (at the cost of allocating funds from other services) cost-effective? Also, did you know that more men die with prostate cancer than from it? That's a strange thing to think about.

[pnwmom]

230. Not unless the available screening tests improve actual outcomes.

It shouldn't be a matter of gender, but of how useful the screening is in terms of improving outcomes.

[NoOneMan]

85. Even single-payer systems have to determine what is "necessary"

Some systems deem gender change surgery and in vitro as necessary (I think Alberta has). Some do not. Here in BC guys can have their nuts tied up for free (I did). We can't have cavities filled for free, but tooth pulls are covered.

I don't have any issue deeming maternity as necessary personally; especially when the alternative to a 9 month term pregnancy is a risk of death (and illegal in many places)

[CreekDog]

214. first, why are you believing the poster that can't even spell pregnancy or maternity correctly?

second, just because regular screenings aren't part of the minimum coverage, that doesn't mean no screenings would be covered if they are warranted, just that unnecessary screenings aren't covered, but screenings for breast cancer are needed based on the prevalence and seriousness of the disease.

[elehhhhna]

3. I'm not geriatric so take that off, too!!!!

lol

[dsc]

5. actually the old pay more

which I take it doesn't bother you.

[darkangel218]

9. What are your thoughts on my OP though?

[dsc]

12. I think it normally should be on health insurance policies

I do think that for the very small subset of people who are too poor for subsidies, they should get to forgo covering maternity on their policies. But otherwise, I do think pregnancy should be covered. I do agree with you on the other things that encourage children.

[Lars39]

4. Do you not understand that society as a whole benefits when everyone gets health care?

[darkangel218]

6. Carrying pregnancy to term is not a disease.

Prostate cancer on the other hand is. And the ACA does not cover prophylactic prostate screenings as they do with women's mammograms.

[Lars39]

13. Iirc, you're studying to be a nurse...surely you know that pregnant women need to be

medically monitored for all sorts of things so that they will have a healthy pregnancy. A healthy outcome for the mother and baby benefits society.

[darkangel218]

15. They CHOSE to carry the pregnancy to term.

That's not a disease!!! Its a choice , and it should be COVERED but optional!!

What about the MEN who will die if prostate cancer because their insurances doesn't offer free screenings???
Are you worried about them at all???

[Lars39]

18. My brother died of prostate cancer because he didn't have insurance at a critical time.

Of course it should be covered. You're dodging the truth that society as a whole will be healthier when everyone's, even pregnant women, health needs are taken care of.

[darkangel218]

19. I'm not dogging anything! my OP was clear, we are talking about the ACA

Not an utopic health care system which may happen or not.

So.. Are you still okay with men not getting free prostate cancer screenings, but all women having maternity care covered? Lol.

[Lars39]

21. Sorry, I don't find the topic at all amusing.

Medical needs of all people should be met. Period. Any thing else and we have become a country of selfish gits deciding we don't want to cover medical care because of race,sex, religion or orientation.

[darkangel218]

22. My topic wasnt meant to be amusing.

So you care about women getting pregnancy care but not about men getting free prostate screenings??

I'm trying to understand you.

[Lars39]

23. I will type slower then. Everyone's medical needs should be covered. Male and female.

Can't get much plainer than that.

[darkangel218]

25. Term pregnency is done by choice.

In this country.

Cancer isn't.

How can I be more clear than that? You tell me.

[Lars39]

28. And a healthy outcome for both is best for this country.

[darkangel218]

32. Both dont exist in the current ACA

That's why it needs to be changed.

[Lars39]

36. Then work towards "free" prostate exams instead of advocating sexual discrimination towards women

[kestrel91316]

259. So work to change it and stop being nasty to your fellow DUers.

Stop trying to make a boys vs girls fight out of something that should cover every person's medical needs.

[CreekDog]

241. you're studying to be a nurse and can't even spell pregnancy?

please. we weren't born yesterday.

also, it's not called "meternity" --you did that one in my thread.

oh and you spelled pap smear wrong too.

and you were already looking for nursing jobs you say?

oh well, i digress, as i was saying, yesterday, we weren't born then.

[Heddi]

298. and repeatedly misspelling "breasts" as "breats"

I know when I was in and fresh out of nursing school I "knew it all" and had this insight into the world of medicine/healthcare that no one else in the world was privileged enough to have...but that kind of thinking generally sorts itself out sooner rather than later when you're being precepted for your first nursing job and you put your foot in your mouth and get your ass handed to you not kindly by an instructor, but quite nastily by an MD or more knowledgeable RN.

Anyone in a nursing program has, through their school, access to nearly every medical journal out there. And anyone who spends 2 minutes doing a literature search can see that the PSA is not part of routine preventative care for men because it has an incredibly high rate of false positives.

Physical exams for men over 60 or 65 include a digital rectal exam for enlarged prostate. If the man is having signs or symptoms of enlarged prostate, or if the MD detects an enlarged prostate, then further testing is done.

Ordering a PSA as a diagnostic tool for prostate issues is not recommended

http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/260087.php
Members of the American Urological Association (AUA) recently got together and made a series of new recommendations concerning prostate cancer screening. They now discourage screening men who are at average-risk under the age 55.

Urologist H. Ballentine Carter, who chaired the panel that wrote the new guidelines, said: "There really was no high-level evidence supporting the use of screening with PSA."

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-204_162-57582847/
Urologists no longer recommend routine PSA testing for prostate cancer

http://www.cancer.gov/cancertopics/factsheet/detection/PSA
Some advisory groups now recommend against the use of the PSA test to screen for prostate cancer because the benefits, if any, are small and the harms can be substantial. None recommend its use without a detailed discussion of the pros and cons of using the test.

http://www.nbcnews.com/id/47505948/#.UnA4hJSDQ1I
The U.S. Preventive Services Task Force gave the prostate-specific antigen test a grade of D, saying that the risks of population-wide screening outweigh the benefits.

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/health/story/2012-05-21/psa-test-questions-answers/55120916/1
Q: Why not get a PSA just in case it helps?
A: Because the PSA can cause harm, Moyer says. Up to 13% of men getting a PSA will have a "false alarm," in which the results signal a possible cancer when men are actually cancer free, according to a review published in October in Annals of Internal Medicine, which the task force used to make its decision. Those false alarms can lead to stress, as well as invasive needle biopsies. Over 10 years, up to 20% of men who get a PSA screening will have a biopsy. One-third of men who undergo biopsies experience pain, fever, bleeding, infection, problems urinating or other effects that the men consider a "moderate or major problem," according to the task force.

http://www.cancerresearchuk.org/cancer-help/about-cancer/cancer-questions/why-isnt-there-uk-psa-screening

Why isn't there UK PSA screening?


PSA alone is not recommended for screening in the UK, as the evidence of its reliability is still very unclear. At the moment the NHS policy is that if a man asks for a PSA test, the doctor should give information about the advantages and disadvantages of having the test and discuss this with him.

PSA is a protein produced by both normal and cancerous prostate cells. A high level of PSA can be a sign of cancer. But your PSA level can also be raised in non cancerous (benign) prostate conditions. There is no one PSA reading that is considered normal. The reading varies from man to man and the normal level gets higher as men get older. But a value less than 4 is generally considered to be in the normal range.

A PSA reading higher than 4, but less than 10 is usually due to a benign enlarged prostate. A reading higher than 10 may also just be a non cancerous prostate disease. But the higher the level of PSA, the more likely it is to be cancer. We now also know that the critical reading for the PSA level can vary depending on your ethnic background. Black men are more likely to have prostate cancer with a lower PSA reading than white men. So having one cut off point for PSA is unlikely to work for a whole population.

[kestrel91316]

258. It's covered, and it's optional. I'll be opting out by NOT HAVING CHILDREN.

See how that works.

[Hekate]

240. Looks like she's going to be one hostile nurse

Dark Angel ? There's a message right there.

[Arcanetrance]

380. Her screen name has no bearing to how she will be as a nurse.

The goddess Hekate has been associated with things such as magic and necromancy as well as other things. But if we just focused on name should we assume things about you. If you wish to disagree with someone that's one thing but to often I see people use personal attacks to refute points they disagree with.

[phleshdef]

165. Its not a disease but it IS a medical condition with huge health ramifications.

And one of the biggest cost drivers for families.

[pnwmom]

231. Driving a car isn't a disease, and yet people can get seriously injured

as a direct result of that CHOICE . . . and the ACA will pay.

And the ACA will pay for tightrope walkers and racehorse riders and people who like to swim with sharks. All CHOICES.

[1000words]

7. When it's a public service and not a consumer product, society as a whole will begin to benefit.

Capitalism means someone is walking a way a loser.

[leftstreet]

8. +1

[Lars39]

14. I agree, but this is what we have to work with at the moment.

[Nye Bevan]

10. We all benefit from women having children.

They will grow up to contribute to society and will be paying our social security when we are old.

[darkangel218]

11. You forgot the sarcasm tag.

Right?

[CreekDog]

300. no he didn't forget the sarcasm tag. it's true.

are you planning on giving up your Social Security and Medicare when you get older?

[NoOneMan]

105. Theyll also use our resources and burn oil

We need another 8 billion children.


I think humanity is at the tipping point where we can admit not every precious new soul is some great benefit to the human race and the environment we depend upon

[hughee99]

126. Exactly, they can have "our" debt and have to live with "our" mistakes, but they can't take

OUR resources (Which incidentally used to be our ancestors resources until they had children).

Perhaps our society is at a tipping point where we should admit that not every precious EXISTING soul is some great benefit to the human race and the environment we depend on.

I can just imagine people deciding that someone else's 40 years on this planet should have been long enough to justify one's existence, and since they're not pleased with their contribution, it's "time to move on" and give someone else a chance to prove they are a more "worthy" person.

[NoOneMan]

137. More mouths to feed. More oil to burn.

Whatever floats your boat. If you have a good idea to make it not "more", than I'm all ears. 40 years? Im more open to that than the shit we are running towards now (though there are better options)

[hughee99]

211. Leaving aside the impracticality of preventing people from having children GLOBALLY,

If no one had any children, the current population would be in really bad shape in 20 years. I'd hate to be in the hospital with heart trouble only to find my doctor is in the bed next to me with the same issue because they are the same age. And, of course, anyone under about 40 can probably forget about retirement since you won't have someone else to take over your job.

Yes, there are better options and perhaps one of those new souls will come up with solutions for problems we (and previous generations) created. Perhaps we (not just you and I personally, but society as a whole) need to do a better job planning for the future and reducing our dependency on the resources we are currently depleting.

[SMC22307]

16. WHUT?

[darkangel218]

17. Whut what???

[SMC22307]

31. Suck up and deal.

Preventive health services for adults
https://www.healthcare.gov/what-are-my-preventive-care-benefits/#part=1

Preventive health services for women
https://www.healthcare.gov/what-are-my-preventive-care-benefits/#part=2

Preventive health services for children
https://www.healthcare.gov/what-are-my-preventive-care-benefits/#part=3

There are MANY services offered that I'll never tap into, but hey, the United States is a great fucking country, no? And we all help each other out...

[darkangel218]

33. Suck it up and deal...

Welcome to DU and good luck.

[HERVEPA]

38. Going for that fifth hidden post?

[darkangel218]

44. Alert on it. good luck .

[SMC22307]

42. I've been here since January, but thanks. Ooh, lookie...

1.Abdominal Aortic Aneurysm one-time screening for men of specified ages who have ever smoked

Smoking. Now THAT'S a choice.

[PoliticAverse]

202. Well the ACA does allow smokers to be charged up to twice as much as non-smokers. n/t

[Cerridwen]

20. No. It is not.

Not for everyone.

Only for the privileged.

There are young women and women who have no choice due to familial, societal, religious, and economic reasons (to name just the tip of the iceberg) who have no informed, educated, and autonomous choice.

[darkangel218]

24. So a percentage of women may not be informed in how to prevent pregnancy.

A percentage , vs 100% if men who are succectible to prostate cancer, yet they won't any screenings ( unless they request/pay out of pocket for them)

How is that fair?

[Cerridwen]

34. Would you please type in complete sentences

so I can reply coherently. I'm not quite sure what you asked.

My apologies if this sounds like snark but I don't know what "A percentage , vs 100% if men who are succectible to prostate cancer, yet they won't any screenings ( unless they request/pay out of pocket for them) " means exactly.

I truly don't. There appear to be some verbs missing and I'm not sure what they are.

[darkangel218]

40. You know exatly what im reffering to.

For the grammatically disabled:
You sugested that some women may lack sex education due to social/religious circumstances. And those women may get pregnant.
At the same time, ALL men are succectible to develope prostate cancer. It happens even at a young age. Yet, they don't receive free prostate cancer screenings, nor free breats cancer screenings. ( yes, breats cancer affects males too)
Am I clear enough, or should I try again.

[Cerridwen]

49. No. I didn't. Or I would not have asked.

I said social, religious, and economic circumstances. The economic part here is important. One I left out was educational. Some young women have not been exposed to current science on reproduction. Educational is frequently (and unfortunately) tied to economics.

I was talking specifically about your assertion that pregnancy is a choice in all cases. It is not. I posted those cases in which it was not an informed choice. That lack of informed choice happens far too frequently in "the greatest nation."

[kestrel91316]

260. You need remedial English and/or typing. Probably both.

Your communications skills are severely deficient.

While you're at it, you might want to take remedial logic, too.

And unless you can get a compassion transplant, I'm thinking your nursing career is going to be extremely short.

[tammywammy]

269. She's not originally from the US.

I think some of her communication skills is due to English isn't her first language I'd guess and also

I've noticed her typing and communication gets worse as a thread progresses.

[kestrel91316]

280. Well if she's a nursing student she needs to get up to speed, because it's seriously impacting

her reading comprehension skills.

And that's still no explanation for the complete lack of logic.

[CreekDog]

303. oh, it's a logical way to disrupt

there's that.

[CreekDog]

302. she spells things right

certain times of day.

[CreekDog]

301. it's really distracting when you claim medical expertise and constantly misspell medical terminology

[Puzzledtraveller]

278. and even then, only to a certain amount of time.

[Brickbat]

26. ROFLMAO.

[darkangel218]

29. ROFLLMAO to the men who die of prostate cancer.

[Brickbat]

47. ROFLMAO to your assertion "every full-term baby is a choice."

And you're training to be a nurse?

[darkangel218]

52. It is a choice. Adults should be responsible for it.

How are you explaining that ACA is not covering men's prostate and breast cancer screenings???
And you're laughing at my education!!



Sad.

[Brickbat]

90. If every pregnancy is a choice, consider the fetus a dependent and that should help you make sense

of it all.

And trust me, I'm not laughing at your education.

[darkangel218]

102. A fetus wasn't always a fetus.

Are you against abortions???

Its a zygote that some women choose to keep.

Can you say the same about CANCER?????

[kestrel91316]

261. Sounds a lot more like an anti-choice troll than anything else. The only nurses I know that think

like this are of the extreme RW variety.

[Deep13]

27. ACA mandates non-discrimination between sexes...

...so it doesn't.

[darkangel218]

30. Yes it does.

Go look it up.

[Deep13]

35. look it up where? nt

[pnwmom]

232. And that means that medical conditions will be covered

without excluding penis cancer because it only occurs in men, or pregnancy because it only occurs in women.

[bettyellen]

37. so is ruining your liver with drink. I would rather pay for the baby, but accept that stuff

doesn't always work out that way.

[MattBaggins]

39. DKF

[darkangel218]

41. DKF, is that you?

[CreekDog]

305. I've heard this kind of story before

conservative posts, Men's rights nonsense, drunken posts.

i was going to tell you a story about where i see them the most. but maybe later.

[SMC22307]

51. DKF posted without histrionics...

IIR. And wasn't a master of self delete. For posterity:

Star Member darkangel218 (7,962 posts)





Carrying a pregnancy to term is a choice in this country.






Last edited Mon Oct 28, 2013, 09:10 PM USA/ET - Edit history (1)

Is it not?

ACA should not demand all females to pay for maternity coverage when we don't want it/need it.

I hope in the future they change that.

[darkangel218]

108. Im not deleting anything.

You are trying to create drama were there isn't any.

ACA is not perfect and needs to be amwnded.

[SMC22307]

115. Famous last words.

Delete, don't delete... no skin off my nose.

This has been an informative thread... I've actually learned something about prostate exams during regular check-ups v. PSA tests. Perhaps you should do the same, rather than doubling down.

[darkangel218]

119. Bye bye.

[SMC22307]

123. I *ain't* going anywhere for a while.

I fucking LOVE these types of threads, so thank you for that.

[CreekDog]

309. oh come on

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=2642014

[seabeyond]

43. wow. i was born genetically healthy and have continued being healthy all my life not using medical

care.

ergo, i should not par for all those people born with issue and a lifetime paying medical bills. not fair. waaaa. i dont wanna. waaaa.

[darkangel218]

46. Bullshit!!! Pregnancy is NOT a pre existing condition!!

Whaaaa all you want. Pregnancy is a choice.


PROSTATE AND BREAST CANCER ARENT.

That's where ACA needs to be amended.

[seabeyond]

45. high risk activity is an option. ergo, we should not have to ever pay for people injured

in his risk activity.

[darkangel218]

48. ACA is not covering for men's prostate cancer screenings

Or breasts cancer screenings. So I guess we are A OK.

[seabeyond]

50. wtf does that have to do with you demanding not to pay cost of preg?

[darkangel218]

53. Everything!!!

Why shouldn't?? Its all interchangable! Men's health matters just as much as women's !!

And cancer is not something you can take a birth control pill for , or go to a clinic and end it!!!

[seabeyond]

56. that is about stupid. who got the woman pregnant? a ghost? are you really saying men have no part

or are you fuckin coddlin male privilege that they can be a part of the conception and NO responsibility beyond that? really? that is the fuckin limited thinking we are seeing here?

[darkangel218]

58. Pregnancy shouldnt override prostate and breast cancer!!!!

Cancer and pregnancy are not one the same!!! So ACA pays close to 10k or more for matternity coverage , but cant pay a few hundred bucs for prostate ans breast screenings!!!





I'm nor really laughing. Rather crying. Who cares about men's helath , right. Sorry.

[seabeyond]

62. in all your brilliance, tell me why they are not (f in fact they are not) paying for prostate and

breast cancer screeening and how does that get interpreted as women being cared for and men not?

never mind. you do not know wtf you are talking about, and seldom do, so i am leaving you in your tears. like i said, waaa.

[darkangel218]

64. Whaaa back at you, seabeyond!

You are the one who doesn't know what they're talking about rather. A simple reading of the ACA summary should clarify it for you.

[Lars39]

67. As pointed out in another thread, prostate exams are done in yearly physicals

and yearly physicals *are* covered by ACA.

[darkangel218]

73. Further exams are not covered.

Lets say a obgyn feels a lump on a 29 y old female's breast. The mammo is free or very low cost.

If a man needs further prostate exams/ blood tests, is not covered under preventive care.

[Lars39]

80. Um, no that mammo on a 29 yo breast would not be free or very low cost.

A base line mammo is recommended at a much later age, 40 or 45, unless family history or a lump, etc indicates one earlier.

[kestrel91316]

263. That's not a screening mammogram. That's a diagnostic mammogram. I assume it's not free.

If a man has a prostatic mass and needs further testing, those are DIAGNOSTIC tests and not screening tests.

I realize that the difference between screening and diagnoses is a very difficult concept for you, but please do try to bone up so you don't continue to make a complete fool of yourself in your little temper tantrum here that is clearly designed to attack the concept of reproductive choice for women anyway and probably has nothing to do with any concern about men's health.

[MadrasT]

54. It should be a choice but for far too many it is not

Abortions are severely restricted in many states. Birth control is not always 100% effective.

I am an infertile woman due to a medical condition and I am OK with it.

I want single payer... otherwise I want same rates for everybody, regardless of gender, age, smoker status, whatever. It should be one big pool. You can't slice and dice it.

Everybody needs to chip in for the public good.

This talk does not belong on DU.

[darkangel218]

55. Are you aware that men dont get free screenings for breast and prostate cancer under the ACA?

You're ok with that? Lol!!!!! Good to know.

[SMC22307]

79. Perhaps the American Cancer Society should weigh in on male breast cancer...

Because breast cancer is so uncommon in men, there is unlikely to be any benefit in screening men in the general population for breast cancer with mammograms or other tests.

http://www.cancer.org/cancer/breastcancerinmen/detailedguide/breast-cancer-in-men-detection

And the Mayo Clinic on PSA tests:

Cancer screening tests — including the prostate-specific antigen (PSA) test to look for signs of prostate cancer — can be a good idea. Prostate cancer screening can help identify cancer early on, when treatment is most effective. And a normal PSA test, combined with a digital rectal exam, can help reassure you that it's unlikely you have prostate cancer. But getting a PSA test for prostate cancer may not be necessary for some men, especially men 75 and older.

Professional organizations vary in their recommendations about who should — and who shouldn't — get a PSA screening test. While some have definitive guidelines, others leave the decision up to men and their doctors. Organizations that do recommend PSA screening generally encourage the test in men between the ages of 40 and 75, and in men with an increased risk of prostate cancer.

Ultimately, whether you have a PSA test is something you should decide after discussing it with your doctor, considering your risk factors and weighing your personal preferences.

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/prostate-cancer/HQ01273

But, hey, you're the expert!

[kestrel91316]

264. This poster and her ignorance are a perfect example of why "a little bit of knowledge is

a dangerous thing". She knows just enough to form an opinion, but far too little for that opinion to be rational.

[cynatnite]

57. I don't watch ESPN on my cable network, but I have to have it regardless.

I don't care. I'm paying for it, but not watching it.

[darkangel218]

60. Watching ESPN doesnt prevent you from watching lets say MSNBC

Does it.

Not quiet fair analogy.

[cynatnite]

63. Totally fair analogy...

I have several channels, mostly sports, that I don't watch and I don't want that I am paying for. It's what's in our package. Those channels are not a choice...even in a basic package...many of them are a part of it whether or not we want them.

Maternity care is part of many insurance plans...along with mental health. While you or I may not be doing any baby making, other women with the same plan will.

I have no problem in this because I want women to have the care they need. My insurance plans has many things I won't be using, but I'm fine with that.

Our insurance plan has been that way for many years. It's normal and not an issue.

[darkangel218]

65. So how you explain then that the ACA does not offer prostate cancer screenings??

Or I shouldbt care because I don't I've a prostate ( and already got all I need )

[cynatnite]

70. Well, the federal government has changed their guidelines about PSA testing...

last I heard.

Preventative colon and rectal exams are covered.

[tammywammy]

71. Are you just talking about the PSA?

Because a regular finger up the butt would still be covered under your physical.

The PSA isn't considered preventative since it isn't that great and can actually cause more issues than it resolves. See my post below.

[cynatnite]

66. Oh and one more thing...

We are paying for old people, veterans, poor people and so on.

We are shouldering them so that they can have what they need...what we all will need at some point. Just because I don't have a penis doesn't mean that I don't want to help pay for a man to have a prostate exam.

[darkangel218]

69. Well, then lets pay for it.

ACA should be amwnded. Those are our brothers, fathers and husbands.

They should get adequate preventive care too. Don't you think?

[cynatnite]

72. I haven't read that women only are getting preventative care. n/t

[darkangel218]

75. Men so far arent getting any free breats or prostate cancer exams.

[cynatnite]

82. Let me make this clear...

Men do get diagnostic mammograms if there is a reason for them. They do get prostate exams.

The PSA's...no. The guidelines for those changed because the testing did more harm than good.

[Lars39]

86. You are wrong about that.

Prostate exams are included in yearly physicals(which are "free&quot when the man reaches a certain age.

[darkangel218]

92. A simple exam cant determine / diagnose cancer.

Anything further ( including blood tests is not covered )

While a $9k maternity care is.

[cynatnite]

95. The PSA does more harm than good.

That's why it's not covered. Scientists figured this out over 2 years ago.

[kestrel91316]

267. No, but that exam can find a mass, at which point diagnostic testing IS covered, dipshit.

Keep digging that hole, though. I'm finding your ignorance highly amusing.

Of course, considering that you want to be a nurse, it should be terrifying.

Stop trying to play doctor.

[kestrel91316]

265. Men get a free annual physical the same as women.

There is no rational basis for doing routine mammograms on men because breast cancer in men is so very rare. The cost far outweighs any benefits.

There is no rational basis for doing routine PSA testing in men because the test is flawed methodology that again does not result in improved outcomes for men overall.

Why do you want expensive, useless tests done? You own stock in a lab or diagnostic radiographic provider?

Stop trying to outsmart medical experts. You ain't one.

[PoliticAverse]

204. And it's a bad system that will eventually end, as more and more people will be able to just buy

the shows they want to watch.

[ScreamingMeemie]

59. On paper, yes. In terms of the law, yes.

In reality? No.

I did not choose to carry a pregnancy to term in this country; it was the only choice I had.

I also did not choose to become pregnant, but that is another story for another time.

I was 19, broke, with no other options.

I love my daughter more than life itself. I can no longer have kids, but I will gladly help shoulder the burden for her and others like her.

Have a good evening, darkangel218.

[darkangel218]

61. Whats fair is fair.

Men should have a chance to helath care too.

Just sayin.

[pnwmom]

234. Men have the same chance for health care.

And the same opportunity for screenings that research has shown improve outcomes.

[tammywammy]

68. Take it up with the U.S. Preventive Services Task Force on the prostate screening

Prostate cancer screening not necessary for most men, government advisory board says

It turns out that many men—perhaps a third of those between the ages of 40 and 60 and most of those 85 and older—have some cancer cells in their prostate gland. But most of those cancers are not aggressive and remain confined to the gland. And the PSA blood test, as well as follow-up biopsies, can’t identify which of those cancers are aggressive and which are not. As a result, millions of men get treated unnecessarily with surgery, radiation, or hormones—and end up experiencing complications from those procedures, sometimes devastating ones. The test might not even benefit men who do have fast-growing cancer, since it’s still unclear whether early treatment works against such disease.

Indeed, a number of recent studies have failed to find that routine PSA screening saves lives, but do show that it often prompts treatments that lead to a large number of serious complications.

http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/news/2011/10/prostate-cancer-screening-not-necessary-for-most-men-government-advisory-board-says/index.htm

[Blaukraut]

74. EVERYTHING that requires medical care should be covered. PERIOD.

That goes for all available cancer screenings, maternity, pre- and post natal care. In short, unless you decide you want elective surgery, your insurance should cover it.

[darkangel218]

77. So far is not.

[Blaukraut]

89. I know, and it sucks. My personal ideal would be the equivalent of NHS in Britain

But we're a long way away from that, and the ACA is only the beginning. But at least now we're arguing WHAT is covered, as opposed to WHO is covered. It's progress.

[kestrel91316]

270. Useless tests that are proven statistically to have no value are OF COURSE not covered.

It's a good thing we have INTELLIGENT, INFORMED medical experts in charge of these decisions and not ranting loons.

[Cerridwen]

76. Tell me about the history of breast cancer research.

Tell me what you know about the history of breast, or as you would type, breats cancer research.

I am now of the opinion you are on the wrong board. Alert this to the jury. Hello, Jury. My apologies to the Jury for being called on this. Hide; don't hide. Y'all have a great evening/morning. I'm not sure of your time zone.

Tell me what you know of the medical history of breast cancer research. Tell me what you know of the female version of prostate cancer.

[darkangel218]

84. Women's prostate cancer??? when did i ever say that??

Copy and paste where I said women anything about " women's prostate exams "



Good luck

[Cerridwen]

106. You mentioned prostate cancer as exclusive to men.

You're wrong. Go learn then get back to us on this board reading your...assertions.

Now respond to my other request.

Tell me what you know of the history of medical research of breast cancer.

[Mother Of Four]

219. I'm reading this thread and just shaking my head...

The OP is answering numerous posts with throwing up icons, laughing icons and is just being an all around pita.

I seriously doubt the OP has any clue that women can be at risk as well, and that they've been looking into it since at least 2000.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10668204

For instance this poor lady who was diagnosed at 88 years old.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14668555

They are simply shooting off at the hip without learning anything before hand. I'm really hoping I never get them as a nurse with that kind of attitude. (If they pass that is)

[cyberswede]

78. You're comparing apples and oranges.

It seems like you're trying to imply that maternity care being covered is somehow responsible for prostate screening nit being covered. The two things don't really have anything to do with each other.

If I recall correctly, PSA tests are notoriously unreliable and possibly harmful, so maybe that's why they're not covered?

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504763_162-57438590-10391704/u.s-panel-recommends-against-psa-tests-for-screening-prostate-cancer-in-men-of-all-ages/

http://www.uspreventiveservicestaskforce.org/prostatecancerscreening.htm

[LadyHawkAZ]

81. 1) No, not in a lot of cases

2) Yes, they should; I would go farther and say they all ought to all cover abortion procedures as well as maternity and contraceptives. But that's an argument for another thread.
3) This isn't a zero sum game. Maternity coverage is not the reason prostate screenings aren't covered; nor will removing it suddenly make them available.
4) Again, not a zero sum game. Both matter; both should be covered.

[Pab Sungenis]

83. Prostate screenings and mammograms are covered

as part of regular preventive check ups.

[darkangel218]

87. No they are not.

[Lars39]

91. You clearly do not know what you are talking about.

[darkangel218]

93. I know VERY WELL what im talking about.

Read up.

[cynatnite]

98. You are ignoring the facts. n/t

[tammywammy]

100. No, you don't know what you're talking about. n/t

[Lars39]

104. Sorry, I think feeding time is over for now.

[cynatnite]

94. YES THEY ARE!

People have tried to explain this to you over and over and over.

It's like you're a repub with selective hearing. You only want what you agree with despite the facts.

[tammywammy]

97. Yes, they are.

You are wrong. A prostate exam is covered. The PSA is not, because it is not considered preventative because it's usefulness is in doubt. The PSA can actually end up causing more issues than it resolves.

Your annual prostate exam would be part of your annual physical - when the doctor feels the prostate for abnormalities.

[darkangel218]

111. How much does that cost, vs a mammogram???

0 $!!
Oh, and what about breats cancer?? Men get it too. Are they screened for it after the age of 40 like women do?

[Skittles]

210. you have some serious issues that have nothing to do with ACA

is therapy covered?

[dflprincess]

362. According to Web MD what preventive tests get covered by insurance

and what preventive tests get covered are based on recommendations from the The U.S. Preventive Services Task Force (USPSTF)

Per Web MD regarding PSA tests:
[div class = "excerpt"]
The U.S. Preventive Services Task Force is an independent agency. It's made up of experts in preventive or family medicine who serve a four-year term on the panel.

Their recommendations are made for primary-care doctors. Many doctor groups that establish guidelines for patient care use the USPSTF recommendations. Agencies that fund health care -- Medicare and private insurers -- often set their policies based on USPSTF recommendations.

Health care reform -- the Affordable Care Act -- will require Medicare and insurance plans to cover preventive services recommended by the USPSTF. However, they may choose to cover preventive services not recommended by the USPSTF.

Will Medicare still cover PSA tests?

Because the USPSTF did not recommend PSA screening -- in fact, the panel recommended against it -- Medicare is not forced to pay for the screening tests.

That's up to the Department of Health and Human Services. And this week, after the USPSTF report came out, HHS Secretary Kathleen Sebelius said [b[Medicare would continue to pay for PSA screening for men who want it.


Because breast cancer remains relatively rare in men, the USPSTF does not recommend routine screening for it for males.

Here is a link to the preventive tests the ACA currently mandates:
https://www.healthcare.gov/what-are-my-preventive-care-benefits/#part=1

Interestingly, it does cover a one-time screening for abdominal aortic aneurysm in men "of specified ages who have ever smoked".

Abdonminal aneurysms are more common in this group - my uncle (a former smoker) had one but gee, one of my aunts did as well (caught in time) and she never smoked. Let's all have a fit because they're not automatically covered for women or non-smokers of either sex.

[phleshdef]

169. They are with the insurance that I am buying from the exchange.

I haven't finalized the purchase yet because of website problems, but I got far enough to see the coverage info for the plan I'm likely to buy and those items are in fact covered.

[mwooldri]

337. Depends on your insurance policy.

Last edited Tue Oct 29, 2013, 09:40 PM - Edit history (1)

Source: https://www.healthcare.gov/what-are-my-preventive-care-benefits/

Prostate screening isn't on that list of "must cover" preventive procedures. Having a mammogram, as long as you're female and at least 40 years old... that preventive procedure is on the list.

Some employer self-insured plans cover for a proper annual physical, as opposed to a wellness check.

So unless your insurance does cover it, you'll have to pay to drop your pants and have your doctor stick a gloved finger up your backside. That is, if that is a prostate screening.

On edit: since it's the first time I weighed in on this posting.... I think a whole boatload of procedures should be delivered to anyone free of charge at the point of delivery.

[LeftyMom]

88. Recommended screenings are covered.

Recommendations change all the time based upon the best evidence and the technology available. For example a change was made recently to reduce the frequency of PAP testing for women over 30 with no history of abnormal tests, largely because of the previous changes that instituted routine HPV testing and their effect on cervical cancer screening. The recommendations about mammograms and when to start them, how often to get them, how that varies if you have a family history, seem to change every ten minutes based on improved data, changes in mammography techniques, etc.

Wait a minute, weren't you claiming to be a newly minted nurse a few months back? I call shenanigans.

[darkangel218]

99. Any further tests than the actual palpal exam done ONCE a year

Is not covered.

You should get your post hidden for taking shots at my educations.

Not surprised though.

[cynatnite]

101. Well, when it's necessary because of the willful ignorance... n/t

[tammywammy]

103. Hey, you know what, if my pap smear comes back abnormal - not considered preventative

That's the comparable to your prostate exam. If my pap smear comes back abnormal further testing would not be covered under the 100% preventative coverage. That would include biopsies, follow up paps, etc.

[darkangel218]

107. Pap smer is pretty clear, when a regular prostate exam is not.

When you get an abnormal pap, you are scheduled for a colposcopy usually. Its pretty clear you have some abnormal cell growth.
When the doctors "feel" something abnormal, any further test is NOT covered.
So you have your pap lab covered but men don't.
See the discrepancy??

[tammywammy]

109. Your regular prostate exam is covered

It's part of the physical when you get a certain age to have your prostate palpitated for abnormalities. That is covered. My regular pap smear is covered as preventative as well.

The PSA test has doubtful utility - this is why it's not considered preventative since it can cause more issues than it resolves.

If my pap came back abnormal follow up testing would not be considered preventative. If a mammogram came back abnormal follow up is not considered preventative. If your prostate exam detected abnormalities your follow up would not be considered preventative.

Your whole argument is bunk.

[darkangel218]

112. BS!!!

What about breats mammograms?? Men get breast cancer too!!!!

[cynatnite]

113. Men don't get breast cancer at nearly the same rate as women...

They are miniscule compared to women.

My father-in-law had a series of diagnostic mammograms for a lump in his breast. They were covered 100%.

[darkangel218]

122. Not anymore, theyre not.

So do pregnancies, not everyone has them. Did I mention pregnecies are usually elective??

[cynatnite]

132. Rates are still substantially lower for men...

The National Cancer Institute estimates in 2013 there will be 232,340 female and 2,240 male cases of breast cancer.

http://www.cancer.gov/cancertopics/types/breast

Pregnancies are always complicated. They deserve as much coverage as we can give them.

[darkangel218]

136. So does testing for cancer.

I'm sorry you are not seeing the facts.

I did my rounds in onco. It wasn't pretty.

[cynatnite]

140. I was in the trenches for a lot of years...

I've worked almost every specialty. I've been in nursing homes, hospital wards, clinics, ER's, delivery rooms, OR's, and much more. I've watched a lot of people die and many didn't have to.

The difference between you and me...I don't ignore science and facts.

The fact is that the PSA testing is not covered because it's not a good test. It does more harm than good. This was determined over 2 years ago. It was major news at the time.

Also, another fact...Men get breast cancer at substantially lower rates. Hundreds of thousands of women get this disease which is why preventative mammograms are covered for them.

It is not feasible in any way to give men preventative mammograms when they get the disease at a substantially lower rate. It would be like testing every single person for diabetes. It's not feasible if there is no reason to test them.

[Lars39]

142. ahem....

She's going to be a nurse, too.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1018&pid=274587

[darkangel218]

143. You are failing to mention that it was determined to do more harm than good

In patients over 70 y old.
What about younger patients?? What about screenings for breast cancer as well???

Please, spare me.

[ScreamingMeemie]

134. No, you said people "choose" to become pregnant in your OP.

That simply isn't true.
Just as it simply isn't true that all women "choose" to carry a pregnancy to term.

This is disingenuous. And disheartening. We understand you don't like ACA. I did not either for a long time, until I realized many of the things being reported about it simply were not true.

But please don't say that you said something you didn't.

You never brought "usually" into the conversation at all.

[darkangel218]

151. Some dont choose it. Most do.

Now tell me how many men choose to develope breast or prostate cancer, and if the the answer is none, why is that their healrh is ignored in those circumstances, while something which most of the time is elective, isn't?

[ScreamingMeemie]

161. Let's focus instead on disingenuous statements

and how wrong they can be. You made a blanket claim that is untrue. Not only with pregnancy but also with men's preventative care.

Prostate exams are covered.

That said, when did they start allowing first year core curriculum nursing students to actually round? Things have certainly changed a lot.

As I have stated, this has nothing to do with anything but the fact that you don't like ACA and have been misinformed as to what is covered when it comes to a prostate... And also how PAP smears are handled.

[darkangel218]

166. Is PSA testing covered?? yes or no?

Are routine mammos for men covered??

The answer to both is NO!! So while us women receive free anual mammograms and papa, men don't receive at least a simple PSA test.

In the meantime, I have to pay for everyones maternity costs.

O..k

[ScreamingMeemie]

172. Prostate exams are covered.

Please answer the rounding question.

[tammywammy]

117. Not BS. I'm sorry you don't understand the facts. n/t

[darkangel218]

133. Im sorry you seem to be ignoring the facts.

[Chan790]

238. Mammograms for men: the recommendation is to NOT perform them.

Even if you have insurance that would cover them, the recommendation is to not have one. Male breast cancer is so rare that it's not worthwhile to screen for unless you have a family history or have found a lump in self-examination. The best preventative measure for men for breast cancer is self-examination, not mammography.

In addition, even in cases where cancer is present, mammography for men yields poor results; it yields false results (both positive and negatives) at an alarming rate. If you want to make a difference, rather than pushing for unnecessary and fruitless testing to be covered, why not teach your male patients how to self-examine correctly for breast cancer?

Unlike male mammography, that would save lives. It's also a cost-efficiency practice and would lower medical costs for both patients and insurers/taxpayers.

[cynatnite]

110. There is not a discrepancy...

A woman goes for her regular exam. She has a pap smear. It's sent to the lab. It's abnormal. The regular exam is covered as preventative. The abnormal part of that in addition to the care afterwards is not preventative.

A man has his exam. It's all preventative. If the doctor discovers something, further testing is required. Men do not have the equivalent of a pap smear. The PSA is not considered reliable.

Precancerous growth can be detected in women. It cannot be detected in men the same way.

The fact is that men and women are different. That is the only discrepancy there is and medically speaking there is nothing science can do about it at this time.

[tammywammy]

114. Thank you for spelling it out so clearly. n/t

[cynatnite]

118. I wish I had a chalkboard. LOL. n/t

[darkangel218]

116. The PSA levels is the ony test so far for prostate cancer!!!!

If we pay close to or more than 10k for maternity care, we should pay for further prostate cancer exams!! That simple!!
Older men deserve to live too.

[cynatnite]

121. That's not how insurance works...

That's not even how OBGYN works.

And no, it is NOT that simple. This is apples and oranges.

You can't call maternity care equal to prostate cancer exams. They aren't even in the same galaxy.

[darkangel218]

124. No they are not.

One , which costs close to 10k is not close to a $100 test.

[cynatnite]

128. This is more than just costs...

Rectal exams are a part of doing a physical. PSA testing is not covered because of how problematic it is.

Maternity care involves not just the mother, but also a fetus which adds a host of potential issues that all has to be addressed.

They should not even be in the same sentence when it comes to costs and care. If you know this, then you should let it go.

[LeftyMom]

129. The primary test for prostate cancer is the Digital Rectal Exam.

Always has been. The PSA has never been anything more than a complementary screening tool of highly debated utility, at best.

[kestrel91316]

274. Err, nope. Core biopsy is the definitive test for prostate cancer.

PSA is statistically useless.

You got a prostate mass, you need first an aspiration (needle) biopsy and then if there is any question, you need a core biopsy.

There is a very good reason why you don't get to call yourself a doctor, dearie.

[ScreamingMeemie]

130. You are usually retested to be sure of the original result.

The colposcopy is a "further test" for women.

[kestrel91316]

272. When the doctors feel something abnormal in the prostate, any diagnostic tests to evaluate it ARE

covered.

Since you are adamant that this is incorrect, please provide a link to the portion of the ACA that specifically excludes diagnostic tests on prostatic masses from coverage.

I'll be waiting..........

[CreekDog]

281. nice spelling

[kestrel91316]

271. Please define "palpal exam". And please provide an explanation for your use of the

plural of education. That one is unique and innovative, to say the least.

[BainsBane]

120. I don't believe for a second that prostrate exams aren't covered

And why you should resent coverage for the propagation of the human species defies comprehension. This is about shit stirring.

[darkangel218]

131. The PSA, which is eqiluivalent of mammo, is not covered.

Go look it up for yourself.
Resent coverage for propagation of the human species huh?? What about our males cancer screenings?? Do they matter at all??

[cynatnite]

135. Why don't you look up the facts about PSA testing?

It's not covered because it does more harm than good. Scientists have discovered this.

Stop spreading that BS!

[darkangel218]

139. Thats BS they came up with a year ago or so.

That 70 y old male shouldn't care if they develope a tumour. It does more bad than good if they start trearment. Although I disagree with that, lets say they're right.
What about younger patients?? Lets say 40y old.
Are they getting free PSA screenings??

[cynatnite]

145. Some do opt for the testing and some don't...

That's because of the problems with the test. The patients are made aware of these issues and they can make a decision with their doctor.

My husband has never been tested even though he does get a regular physical exam by his doctor. There is no reason for him to have the test.

[kestrel91316]

275. No. Nor should they. They get a rectal exam, and if there is a mass they get appropriate diagnostic

testing, ie needle biopsy/core biopsy.

You've been told time and time again that PSA is an unreliable test that is being discarded any yet you persist in demanding it.

You are a disgrace to your profession. Stop acting like you know what you are talking about you are NOT a physician. You aren't even close. And your ignorance is downright dangerous.

[BainsBane]

144. So you would prefer no human beings be born?

Last edited Tue Oct 29, 2013, 09:20 AM - Edit history (1)

If prostate screenings aren't covered, that's a problem. But to say you don't think child birth should be covered as a result is fucking nuts. It is the most basic aspect of being a human being. An absence of child birth coverage would mean those males would never reach adulthood because they'd die at childbirth. I've seen some fucked up posts, but this takes the cake. There is a kind of hatred for humanity implicit in your argument that defies comprehension.

[darkangel218]

147. I shouldnt be forced to pay for maternity care.

When I don't pay for my dad's or brothers prostate cancer screening (PSA.)

That simple.

[cynatnite]

149. You already are paying for other people's health care...

Whether it's Medicare, Medicaid, VA, private insurance and the uninsured.

You're paying for all that and more. That simple.

[darkangel218]

153. The diference is They are getting the care, while my dad, brother, so, doesnt.

[cynatnite]

167. You just fucking love all this, don't you?

People who've spent years in the medical field have explained facts to you, but you continually ignore all of this.

I can only come to one conclusion about you. You LOVE the attention. You LOVE rowing discontent.

You could care less about facts, evidence, experience, and everything else that people have shown you to prove that you're mistaken.

No, you're not mistaken. You know exactly what the hell you're doing.

And no, you're not a nurse. I call bullshit.

[darkangel218]

171. No, im not a nurse. Im a nurse student.

You are the one who LOVES ignoring the facts!! Good luck!! And sorry you don't care about prostate cancer. Its sad.

[cynatnite]

175. You are manipulative and disingenuous...

That's not even a nursing student.

Go to your instructors and ask them why men don't get preventative mammograms. Ask them why PSA testing is not covered as preventative.

They will tell you the same exact thing that most of us have been trying to explain to you.

Student nurse, my ass.

[Mother Of Four]

220. Up-thread this poster stated she had already done all her rounds...

In Oncology of all places.

But didn't start her core classes until January of this year to become an RN. You're beating your head against a wall

[ScreamingMeemie]

253. ...and then she refused to answer my direct question on it.

And then threw out the word "clinicals" in an odd way. Yeah, she's a nursing student to my male modeling contract (I'm a girl, btw)

[kestrel91316]

277. That's "nursing student". And I am calling BS on that. You are far too ignorant to have

any medical background whatsoever. And your communication skills are so poor I'm thinking you don't even have a HS diploma.

[RiffRandell]

250. Nailed it!

Soon to be self-deleted....

[tammywammy]

150. I thought your family was in Europe and you are here by yourself? n/t

[darkangel218]

155. My dad and brother are here.

[cyberswede]

152. You are kinda embarrassing yourself now.

[Whisp]

195. Then if a person made a choice to drive a car and got into an accident...

you would also feel you shouldn't be forced to pay?

what u.t.t.e.r. nonsense.

simple, alright.

[steve2470]

384. You're a woman ?

You don't want to help pay for women's maternity care, when the possibility always exists (until menopause is over) that you may need it also ? This is equivalent to me refusing to pay for prostate screening, because I don't have prostate cancer. I don't mind helping out my fellow men with their health insurance, and I sure don't mind helping out women with their maternity care. That's what insurance is all about, until we get single payer.

[kiawah]

290. Hell yes, prostrate exams should be covered!

Why should only people that stand get to be treated?!

[mercuryblues]

125. Are you also

one of those people who cry...I don't have any kids in school, why should I pay school taxes!1! me, me, me, me, me.



It has been stated many times that prostrate screening is done during a yearly physical. The PSA test is unreliable. If a DR orders it, it will be covered like any other test. It is not exempt from coverage. Not like the religious groups want to exempt birth control coverage. I can no longer have children, but I am not so selfish to think birth control should not be covered either.

But really, if this offends you so much start a grassroots effort to lobby the government for it to be mandatory coverage.

[darkangel218]

127. We need social health care.

In the meantime, peoples coverage is being canceled because they don't have maternity in their plan.

[mercuryblues]

154. Oh

they can't get a new policy? I understand it is a pain in the ass to shop for insurance. I for one am glad that people who could never afford insurance before can now. Is the ACA the best we can have? No. But it is what we have. We also have more work to do to get single payer. Just because it is not perfect is no reason to dredge up misleading claims against it.

[darkangel218]

157. These are no fucking misleading claims!!!

Tell me how am I misleading anyone or anything????

[ScreamingMeemie]

168. "Prostate exams are not covered."

"Women choose to carry pregnancies to term."

[mercuryblues]

209. you are claiming

prostate screening is not covered in preventative care. It is. What is not covered is the unreliable PSA test. It is not covered in preventative care because it is highly inaccurate. It is covered like any other lab work the Dr. orders. What you seem to be advocating for is an unreliable test for men to solely base their health decisions on.

Men are not exempt from mammograms, which you are implying. About 2% of breast cancer patients are men. They die at a much higher rate for women because it is often caught in the later stages. Dr's should order that test if they feel it is warranted. If an insurance company charges a man for the test that is not the ACA's fault. There is nothing stopping insurance companies to add it. More men should learn how to do self breast exams and go to the DR when something is not right.

What is done is that the most prominent diseases in men and women; that if caught early have favorable outcomes is what gets mandated.

[Vashta Nerada]

138. This thread was entertaining for me.

Here's a rabbit with toilet paper on its head:

[darkangel218]

141. Glad youre not a male

In need of a free PSA test.

I bet you wouldnt find it so funny then.

[Vashta Nerada]

146. I'm a male.

I don't need regular prostate exams for another ten years.

[darkangel218]

148. How great for you. please post more rabbit pics.

[Vashta Nerada]

156. Here's a rabbit with a wooden duck on its head:

I'm actually wondering how long it'll be before this thread is self-deleted.

[darkangel218]

158. I dont know.

Welcome to DU.

[tammywammy]

160. Deleted posts is a regular occurrence with this poster. n/t

[Vashta Nerada]

162. Yes.

This I am aware.

[SMC22307]

163. Not gonna happen!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=3940566

[Make7]

385. Don't be too sure...

[div class="excerpt" style="margin-left:1em; border:1px solid #bfbfbf; border-radius:0.4615em; box-shadow:-1px -1px 3px #999999 inset;"][div style="float:right;"]Tue Apr 9, 2013, 2:14 PMdarkangel218 (8,051 posts)
189. Im not self deleting my OP.

Thanks for tour your pro hatered stance. And don't pm me nonsense anymore please.[font style="font-size:0.8462em;"]


http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=2642032#post189[/font]
... but then...

[div class="excerpt" style="margin-left:1em; border:1px solid #bfbfbf; border-radius:0.4615em; box-shadow:-1px -1px 3px #999999 inset;"][div style="float:right;"]Tue Apr 9, 2013, 12:32 PMdarkangel218 (8,051 posts)

[font style="font-size:1.231em;"]This message was self-deleted by its author[/font]
[div class="alert-box deleted"]This message was self-deleted by its author (darkangel218) on Wed Apr 10, 2013, 12:13 AM. When the original post in a discussion thread is self-deleted, the entire discussion thread is automatically locked so new replies cannot be posted.[font style="font-size:0.8462em;"]
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=2641298#op[/font]
Although I'm guessing a pizza delivery may prevent any action on this particular OP.

[fishwax]

159. Of course pregnancy should be covered

So should prostate screenings. Fortunately, both are.

[darkangel218]

164. No they are not.

Do your home work. An exam without the PSA test can not determine anything. Just like an exam without a mammogram can not determine if a biopsy is needed.
Routine mammograms are covered for women. They are not covered for men. Just like PSA testing isn't.
Please so your homework before posting.

[cynatnite]

170. No, you do your fucking homework...

There is a reason why men don't get a fucking preventative mammogram. There is a reason why the PSA is not covered as preventative.

You are ignorant to the science and to the facts by your own choice.

[darkangel218]

180. You have no clue what you are talking about!!

PSA testing is still being done, but discouraged in clients over 70 y old !!!

What about the young ones who get prostate cancer??

You can call me any names you want. I'm glad I don't have to work with you in my clinicals!!
Your posts make me puke.

[cynatnite]

182. Did I ever say it was not being done?

PSA testing is still offered. It's not offered as preventative care.

You will find a lot of testing that is discouraged for people over 70. Colonoscopies, for one.

I don't have to do anything. Your willful ignorance and trolling is doing all the work for you, honey.

[fishwax]

174. My post is accurate. You've basically admitted as much. So do your own homework.

And, while we're offering one another free advice: it doesn't help your credibility to disingenuously tie the PSA testing to the entirely unrelated issue of coverage for pregnancy. If you want to make the case that more forms of prostate screening should be covered, why not just do so ?

[cynatnite]

176. She calls herself a nursing student...

She's become a parody of herself.

[Warren DeMontague]

173. Oh FFS.

[seabeyond]

177. so, you are wrong on this thread. you have been told a number of times, a number of ways how wrong

you are by a number of people. but... facts dont mess with your agenda, does it.

pathetic

[darkangel218]

181. Being told " wrong" by the same 2-3 people.

You know what's pathetic, seabayond? That you chose to ignore the truth.

[seabeyond]

185. keep telling yourself, or else how do you continue on with this facade.

[cynatnite]

193. How many links to qualified scientific research do you want?

I'll get them for you.

A lot of us have the benefit of working in the medical field. We have knowledge and experience that you, a nursing student, might ought to consider rather than outright dismissing it.

I have experience not just clinically, but also in administration. I have worked in medical coding and billing, medical transcription, and medical records. I can explain why some procedures are covered and others are not. I can talk to you about preventative care and what qualifies.

Many of us do know what we are talking about. There are others who are more involved in other aspects of the medical field than I am or work in a higher position than I have. Some have much more experience in these areas than I have.

We can offer a lot, but when you have your mind closed to the facts of these issues you have raised there is nothing anyone will ever be able to tell you...even with a stack of evidence before you. I highly doubt even your instructors can bend your mind even in the slightest.

[Whisp]

178. This is the dumbest post on ACA and healthcare

and there have been some real beauts to compete with, darkangel.

Congrats.

[LeftyMom]

179. It's about time to count down to the self delete and whiny post in the lounge.

The OP is nothing if not predictable.

[darkangel218]

184. Lol.

I'm bringing up facts.

[Whisp]

187. I think I missed that part. n/t

[darkangel218]

194. Sure. Same like months ago when you were calling me out.

Bye bye.

[Whisp]

197. see ya in the funny papers!

[darkangel218]

198. See you there rather

[cyberswede]

190. You're digging in your heels after many people have pointed out where you're wrong.

I honestly don't know what you hope to accomplish here.

You're wrong. Many people have explained, yet you're unable to understand.

If you're really studying to be a nurse, you should learn how to understand guidelines, such as the report that points out that the PSA test can cause more harm than good, so it's no longer recommended for men of any age.

[Nine]

186. +1. Uninformed, illogical, misogynistic...

I alerted on the thread. This must be a troll post. No one can really be this thick. If darkangel really is sincere, he/she needs to be banned.

[SMC22307]

191. And NEVER wrong, just like Sarah Palin.

It's fascinating, from an abnormal psychology standpoint.

[darkangel218]

196. You must be refering tp yourself.

Good luck projecting.

[SMC22307]

199. Double down some more D...

it's fascinating to watch one so clearly wrong dig in the way you have.

And no self-delete yet... bra-vo!

[kestrel91316]

279. I think we need to keep playing with this one wherever she pops up.

Could be real fun for a little while at least.

[gollygee]

248. +1

[LittleBlue]

183. Uh oh, now you've done it

[darkangel218]

188. Enjoy your popcorn

[LittleBlue]

200. I'm joking about your cardinal sin

1) You said something that could be perceived as negative about the US healthcare system post-ACA
2) There is nothing negative about our healthcare system under the ACA
3) No one should have a problem with it
4) If you fail to realize #2 and #3, there is a problem with your education
5) If you have noticed any inconsistency, you obviously don't understand the ACA



I should have made clear I was mocking the reaction, not you dark

[seabeyond]

189. as long as it is anti woman, you have your popcorn, dontcha.... what a man.

[darkangel218]

192. My OP wasnt anti women, btw.

Is that's what you understood from it, I feel bad for you.

[LittleBlue]

201. Ignore this person

And if you engage her, for God's sake don't mention anything relating to men around her.

She doesn't realize the OP is a reproduction DU debate, she thinks it's about woman bashing.

[cyberswede]

205. Self deleted.

[LittleBlue]

206. I'll change it

I've seen the term a lot on DU and in GLBT circles.

[cyberswede]

207. Thank you - that was very considerate.

Much appreciated!

[MannyGoldstein]

203. The best current evidence is that prostate and breast cancer screenings are walletectomies

They generate nice income for the medical profession but do nothing to help *us*. In fact, they seem to harm more than they help.

Being born... That's another matter.

[kcr]

208. For one thing, you're wrong about the screenings being covered as has already been pointed out.

Numerous times. For another, your attitude about pregnancy and maternity coverage is self centered. Everyone has benefited at some point in their life from maternity care, unless you think you sprouted from a cabbage patch. Your view on that is nothing but I've Got Mine Now So Screw Everyone Else mentality. Do you think you shouldn't have to pay for schools now that you've graduated? So even if you were right about the screenings it wouldn't matter. THe answer wouldn't be to gut coverage for something that everyone benefits from. That would be moronic.

[Turborama]

212. Looks like the use of a purposefully oblique phrase instead of "SUCCESSFULLY HAVING A BABY"

Who would be against helping someone to successfully have a baby?

Who would be against helping to make sure a baby survives a pregnancy
?

The phrase in the OP is a technical term used as a misdirection away from the other just as important subject of the topic, a BABY.

Having lost 1 baby through miscarriage, successfully having 1 healthy baby and currently being at the beginning of another pregnancy, you have touched something very personal to me, and the fact there is no mention of the baby makes your OP disingenuous.

[darkangel218]

218. Oh yah?

My OP is disingenuous for stating facts.

I'm sorry you don't like the FACTS.

[Turborama]

222. This reply is as disingenuous as your OP.

You are misstating the reasons I gave for it being disingenuous.

The thing is, I love facts and you left out a very important "FACT" in your OP.



(typo fix)

[darkangel218]

223. Which is?

[Turborama]

226. Here...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=3941179

[darkangel218]

227. Im asking to prove that that my OP is disgebious by facts

Such as the actual ACA law, not emotional personal stories.

My brother and my dad are curently not getting tested for
niether prostate nor breast cancer through. ACA. No such tests available for 2014. Even though my dad needs it yearly...


.

[Turborama]

235. !

[CreekDog]

244. you try to pit prostate cancer against pregnancy and then attempt to...

make it sound like those who are pregnant or getting mammograms are doing so somehow at the expense of those with prostate cancer.

almost everyone is onto what's going on here and the kind of disruption you are attempting here.

[Sheldon Cooper]

245. "disgebious" ?

What the actual fuck does that even mean?

[NealK]

297. Here's the definition:

Disgebious:

adjective

1. not gebious

[Sheldon Cooper]

307. Thanks for the translation.

Makes perfect sense!

[NealK]

310. Lol, it sure does.

[missingthebigdog]

334. Duzy!

[Bobbie Jo]

341. LOL!

got me.

[liberal_at_heart]

213. single payer, single payer, single payer. We must have single payer.

[LittleBlue]

216. You win the thread

All other discussion is ultimately the noise of a failed and doomed for-profit system.

[winter is coming]

215. Self-delete is a choice. I recommend it. n/t

[darkangel218]

217. No thanks.

Its a discussion board.

Everything I stated is a fact.

I won't delete this thread for the "ACA is perfect" crowd.

I support the ACA , but it needs to be amended.

[seabeyond]

221. i guess the upside is 220 posts, 221, lol. not a single rec. not one recommend. do you know how

hard it is to get NO recommend. i mean, at least a few people will recommend ANYTHING. and not one.

so

there is that.

[darkangel218]

225. Awwww!!! im not here for recs!!

I speak my mind.

Look what that guy said about me ignoring your posts.. I think I will follow his advice.

.

[CreekDog]

246. then you came to the right place

[killbotfactory]

224. What's the polite way to say "go fuck yourself"? Oh right...

Bless your heart.

[bravenak]

228. Somebody has issues.

Without pregnancy we won't have cancer. Cause we won't exist. Male or female.
Do you not understand that most pregnancies aren't planned??
And that everybody has to spend sometime inside a woman's vagina?
And that men put their penises inside the vagina a work it around until climax?
And that's how babies are made?
And that most pregnancies aren't planned?
Since everybody came out of a pregnant woman's vagina, we have all used maternity care?
Even you????? Whether you've been pregnant or not???
Time to Grow up now.

[JustAnotherGen]

256. I think I love you

Huey Freeman as an avatar and brilliance in content - what's not to love?

[bravenak]

284. Why thank you!

I'm getting feels for you too now.

[pnwmom]

229. Driving a car is a choice in this country, is it not?

And people who drive in cars, or ride dirt bikes -- or just walk across the street -- get in serious accidents every day.

And the ACA will pay to fix all of them. Even though people who have accidents do so as a result of a CHOICE, or series of choices, that they made.

The screenings that are covered under ACA are the ones that research has proven will save lives -- without regard to the gender of the person with cancer.

[davidn3600]

233. Women's health issues has become big business in this country...so that's one cause of it

Just look anywhere this month and it's all pink for Breast Cancer awareness. Look at the NFL with players and wristbands and hats and water bottles all in pink.

Charities make big bucks on cancer donations....especially when it concerns women. It's the same with insurance companies.

Last month was Prostate Cancer Awareness month. I wonder how many people were aware of that...

[Heidi]

236. For the record, before this is self-deleted:

darkangel218 (8,021 posts) Mon Oct 28, 2013, 09:02 PM

This post has been edited 3 times.

Mon Oct 28, 2013, 09:10 PM - Original version with no edits.

Original version with no edits.
0. Carrying a pregnency to term is a choice in this country.
Is it not?

ACA should not demand all females to pay for maternity coverage when we don't want it/need it.

I hope in the future they change that.
Mon Oct 28, 2013, 09:10 PM - Unexplained edit.

Unexplained edit.
0. Carrying a pregnancy to term is a choice in this country.
Is it not?

ACA should not demand all females to pay for maternity coverage when we don't want it/need it.

I hope in the future they change that.
Mon Oct 28, 2013, 10:26 PM - Unexplained edit.

Unexplained edit.
0. Carrying a pregnancy to term is a choice in this country.
Is it not?

ACA should not demand all females to pay for maternity coverage when we don't want it/need it.
In the meantime, men's prostate and breast cancer screenings are not covered.
So pregnancy matters, but potential deadly cancer does not?

[Change has come]

237. in before the self delete

Blah Blah Blah

[Hekate]

239. Well, aren't you special

edited to add OP in case someone wakes up and shuts down this toxic thread tonight

Carrying a pregnancy to term is a choice in this country. [View all]
Is it not?
ACA should not demand all females to pay for maternity coverage when we don't want it/need it.
In the meantime, men's prostate and breast cancer screenings are not covered.
So pregnancy matters, but potential deadly cancer does not?

[cali]

242. No. In state after state, it's no longer a choice.

[myrna minx]

243. What a shamefully embarrassing thread. n/t

[moriah]

247. Be happy someone *chose* to continue carrying you to term.

This isn't about men or women, it's about children. As a society, we agree that we should take care of children and the aged -- we were all children, and most of us hope to live long enough to grow old. You were once a fetus, too.

Good prenatal care is essential to our next generation. And since I'm of the "Safe, Legal, and Rare" school of thought on abortion, I firmly support all programs that are designed to assist mothers so that poverty is not a reason for terminating an otherwise wanted pregnancy.

[snooper2]

249. luckily you don't have to worry about ACA once one enters the spirit world

I hear Thatcher is doing prostate exams there LOL

[Arugula Latte]

251. How about overeating as a choice? Smoking? Drinking? Not exercising?

Maybe those of us who don't do those things shouldn't pay for any health conditions stemming from those things, huh?

[NCTraveler]

252. I would like to think this thread has corrected and educated you further.

Clearly it has not.

[ScreamingMeemie]

254. Unfortunately, I don't think so...

She's a first-year nursing student who has already "rounded."
As a nursing student, she didn't realize that prostate exam and PSA are not the same thing.
Also, as a nursing student, she didn't know how a PAP smear is performed (or spelled for that matter) and that most "bad" results are subject to a retest before a colposcopy.
She moved here to the U.S. all by herself and yet her father and brother live here.

----I am pretty sure she doesn't care, has abandoned this thread, and is saving up for next time.
I inadvertently defended her last week on an outburst, but this is indefensible. I now believe her entire persona is a made up bunch of bunk, but I'll probably forget that until next time.

[NCTraveler]

255. Spot on. nt.

[tammywammy]

266. +1, excellent post.

I'm just surprised she didn't delete the OP.

[Heddi]

304. About her nursing program

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1018480897#post12

It's an accelerated program. Started in July. Graduates in December. Just buying her first stethoscope in August. Getting job offers to work in Alaska in September to start In January.....

I'm an RN. Been since 2006

I know how nursing schools work
And I don't know of any nursing school that is an RN program that is less than 24 months long.
Most states have provisions for the minimum time a program has to be to be considered an RN.
12 months, including clinicals?

Repeated misspelling pregnancy...and breasts? Doesn't care to use the resources she has via her school to investigate online medical journals for the usefulness of PSA testing, and why it is not recommended?

I am an RN. My husband is an RN. Most of my friends are RNs. Fuck, I work around MDs and RNs and...well...I thnk y'all know where I'm going with this.

[Mother Of Four]

381. That was pretty informative...

I'm done with this poster. She's full of it to her eyebrows.

Edited to change because this is a bit of a late post for me in all this. I guess she's under review. Thank goodness. No need for me to get ticked at all

[kestrel91316]

257. What kind of nursing student thinks that women's medical insurance should NOT cover pregnancy??

Do tell.

Perhaps one who has so little knowledge of public health issues and so little compassion for their fellow humans that they don't care if pregnant women wind up back in the dark ages.

Your name seems aptly fitting when you take it in the context of this thread.

I was wondering about you. I'm not wondering anymore.

[CreekDog]

276. one that can't spell pregnancy

or maternity.

http://www.sfgate.com/news/science/article/Woman-s-upper-body-found-at-LA-County-sewage-plant-4933378.php

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=3939778

or pap "smer".

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=3940554

[kestrel91316]

282. And she invented something called a "palpal exam". That one's new to me.

[Whisp]

283. maybe it's a paypal exam? or a papal one, yeh that's the ticket!

Oiy!
The deck is missing a few cards, I'm feeling a bit sorry for the OP right now cuz it's gonna be harsh for her/him to see this OP of theirs in the light of day and hopefully soberness.

[darkangel218]

289. I was referring to tactile examination. Typed it in my native tongue by accident.

But I'm petty sure you knew what it I was referring to, didn't you.

[kestrel91316]

292. Are you asking a question? Because here in the US we put a question mark at the end of a question.

Don't they require basic English and grammar skills in nursing school these days?

[PeaceNikki]

262. What the living FUCK is going on here at DU?

Some people really are having a fucking blast trying to stoke the fires to ignite a real gender war.

Present company included.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

286. ever since Skinner allowed the mens group, unabashed misogyny

has become really normalized here. everyone can indulge in it, with no consequences. I honestly feel that once you allow something to occur, you then have to rationalize its existence and cannot necessarily vigilantly clean up its aftermath.

[CreekDog]

311. The OP is not making sense to me. Not credible at all. I can't even keep the story straight.

We're supposed to believe a nursing student, already applying for jobs, constantly misspells common medical terminology.

That a female, nursing student and prospective nurse thinks that maternity and pregnancy related health care shouldn't be covered so that a discredited screening procedure for prostate cancer can be offered, though most doctors don't use it universally because of its unreliability.

I can't keep the story straight because it doesn't make sense.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

326. Q to OP: Is a Fallopian tube a part inside a TV??? Yes or no?

Just wondering about the extent of OP's knowledge.

And KOTEX is a radio station in Dallas.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

329. i think sometimes things dont make sense because they are nonsensical

like a woman really virulently arguing against healthcare for women. smells awfully fishy

[Whisp]

268. What an utterly repulsive and unDemocratic point of view.

I vomit in your direction and look forward to the Hammer getting you.

[stevenleser]

273. All I can say is...

I don't know why you felt the need to post an ugly empathy-lacking OP like this.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

287. you win this thread

[niyad]

363. I obviously need more caffeine--took me two whole seconds to see that.

[kestrel91316]

371. You may be right about this. Under the surface of that one I always suspected a true psycho lurked.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

285. being a woman is not a choice and medical care should cover all aspects of healthcare. nt

[darkangel218]

312. Being a woman doesn't immediately means pregnancy or giving birth.

One doesn't equal the other.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

328. one is part and parcel of healthcare of the other. just like prostate related issues are healthcare

issues for me. or getting vaccinations is a healthcare issue for a child.

[RiffRandell]

288. Not to get all Meta, but admins: DU would be a much better place without this poster.

I know I'm not the only one that feels that way.

[darkangel218]

313. You gave up on attacking me in the Lounge and started here??

Pretty pathetic.

Yah, I hope the Administrators see this thread too. This is a discussion board, not an echo chamber. And FYI, I support the ACA, I just don't think one condition should precede or exclude another. Everything should be covered, STARTING WITH FREE COMPREHENSIVE CANCER SCREENINGS.

[RiffRandell]

333. Not attacking, just stating the truth. nt

[kestrel91316]

372. I agree 100%. Dear Admins: DU would be a MUCH better place without this one.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

383. truth. nt

[TBF]

291. FFS ... SINGLE PAYER NOW. nt

[Aerows]

293. Did you hatch from an egg

or were you born? Because last I checked, all of us required maternity care at some point in our lives since we were ... you know, born.

[Arugula Latte]

299. And how does it all work? I seem to remember something about a *gasp* man being involved...

[darkangel218]

314. Our dads and brothers require care too.

Why cover one but not the other?

And to answer your Q, no I wasn't hatched from an egg. Were you?

[missingthebigdog]

342. your dad and brother are covered!!

The tests they require are covered to the same extent that pregnancy is. Should a (free) physical exam reveal that there is some symptom or sign of prostate cancer, the Dr. will order tests to confirm or rule out cancer. Those tests will be covered, subject to copays and deductibles. This is identical to pregnancy- maternity care is covered, but not free- you have to cover your deductibles and copays.

[msanthrope]

294. Moon bombing. nt

[tammywammy]

295. ....

[msanthrope]

322. It works on a few levels...check out the avatar. nt

[tammywammy]

325. LOL! n/t

[DevonRex]

296. So you're against maternity care, and FOR GUNS. How about taxes?

How about voter ID? How do feel about unions?

[darkangel218]

315. Im not against maternity care. I just think it should be optional since there is no free coverage

For so many types of cancer screening.

Include all, they are just as important.

[gollygee]

319. So there has to be free coverage for every single kind of cancer screening

before any level of insurance coverage at all should be considered for pregnancy/childbirth?

That's just plain crazy.

[darkangel218]

321. No its not! blood tests are fairly inexpensive , and a lot cheaper

Than treating or trying to treat an advanced stage.

Money wise is actually a smart thing to do.

Look it up online if you dint believe me. Treating early stages of cancer over advanced /terminal ones.

[gollygee]

324. Many cancer screening tests are free, including a screening for prostate cancer

the one you're talking about isn't, but to expect every test for cancer anyone has ever come up with to be free before health costs every single person alive has had to deal with, at least from the baby being born side, and a really large percentage of people deal with from the parent side, is not reasonable.

[darkangel218]

330. Prostate cancer is very prevelant among men, FYI.

And to enlighten you.. cancer screenings actually are not all free even for women. Routine mammos are, but screw you if you found a lump!!! I just paid $75 for a diagnostic mammo. Done in the hospital where I do my practicum.

Diagnostic screenings are hardly covered. The insurance companies are making an aweful amount of dough off us. Shouldnt we care that we get at least preventive care covered???

[gollygee]

331. Prostate cancer screening is free

the specific test you are talking about isn't, because the medical community finds it to be unreliable and that it causes harm more than it helps. You've read this and seen links so you know this at this point. I'm not sure why you keep saying the same thing over and over again as you didn't know. And I'm aware that prostate cancer is prevalent. My father-in-law was just diagnosed, with the test that is recommended by the medical community.

[kestrel91316]

373. Diagnostic testing is covered, toots. It's not automatically FREE, but it is subject to

deductible/copays until you reach your out-of-pocket cap, at which point EVERYTHING is completely covered aka FREE.

Please in the name of Gawd don't tell me that you, a nursing student, don't understand this most basic aspect of how insurance works. Good lord.

[DevonRex]

379. But you said men shouldn't pay for maternity care since carrying to term is a choice.

Now you're doing a switch to another argument. I'm calling bullshit straight up. You have no fucking clue what you're talking about.

[duffyduff]

306. This might be the craziest thread OP ever

You do know that if women don't have children, society won't continue. It is in society's interest that women get maternity care.

[darkangel218]

317. I want women to have children. How did you get to the conclusion that i didnt???

If the ACA is covering the maternity costs, it should cover all cancer screenings too. Don't pick and chose what you cover.

Do you have someone dying if cancer as we speak? I do.

[Rex]

316. The needs of the many, outweigh the needs of the few or the one.

nt.

[darkangel218]

318. What do you mean the needs of the many?

Are you saying men are in minority or less important than women?

Wtf...

[retread]

320. WTF???????????

[darkangel218]

323. Yah Thats what i said when i found out ACA is not covering prostate cancer screenings.

[Lars39]

327. Post #298 fully explains why PSA is *not* recommended

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=3945739

[CreekDog]

332. and you're a nursing student who doesn't know why the screenings aren't recommended anymore

seriously. why don't you know?

[ScreamingMeemie]

339. Yes it is. I think it's time for you to close up shop on

this one. I hope, if you ever do decide to go to nursing school, you pay better attention to your studies.

[Texasgal]

335. Dark.

As a nursing student you should have learned or perhaps will learn that more medical research is done for males and not women in general.

Women have been fighting long and hard to get basic medical research done. I think we are all concerned about prostate cancer, it is generally a male issue... however there are PLENTY of womens health issues that never make the cut and never get researched appropriately.

Did you know that heart disease is the #1 killer of women? Have you seen any good decent research in the name of women? NO. That's because we studied heart disease in men for a very long time! We are NOW just NOW researching women and heart disease. A little late if you ask me.

I hope you study lady. You may never pass your RN if you don't.

Good luck.

( oh and seriously, carrying a baby till term is a choice that shouldn't be covered eh? I guess I should have thought about that damn cancer huh. )

[seabeyond]

338. hey texas. good to see you. and do you KNOW, that symptoms for a womans heart attack is different

than a mans. all these years, women dying from a heart attack being told the mans symptoms when we had our own unique symptoms.

of course you know

but, dark does not seem to know.

thank you for your post. and always good to see you

[Texasgal]

340. it's CRAZY!!!

same as many issues regarding research and womens health, although a heart attack is the most common.

Women also suffer from auto immune, strokes, HIV etc... all medical issues that have been researched heavily in men.

It's a big problem.

Good to see you too! Thanks for the post!

[Phentex]

344. Here's the flameout!

Ibtsd

[seabeyond]

345. no thank you, you just are not my type. bye bye.....

[darkangel218]

349. Bye byw to you hater. Go insult someone else!

You have no respect for nurses! We know nothing!!

You make me sick to my stomach

[ScreamingMeemie]

350. You aren't a nurse.

[kestrel91316]

369. In one post she's a nursing student, and in others she is working in various

nursing capacities such as surgery or oncology or whatever.

Nurse Waltermitty! Nurse Waltermitty! You're needed in the Psychiatric Department!!

[demmiblue]

352. I thought you were getting ready for your 12 hour shift:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1018507392

I don't think you will be saving many lives in your condition, though.

[seabeyond]

355. rollin eyes. byyyye.

[Texasgal]

348. Ummm..okay?

Calm down. We are having a debate. It's what message boards are all about.

[NuclearDem]

351. No, seabeyond, don't push that button!

[seabeyond]

356. ya know... i had to push it. boom. nt

[Vashta Nerada]

336. I'm surprised this train wreck hasn't been self - deleted yet.

[tammywammy]

347. You need to take a break. n/t

[darkangel218]

353. Yah? alert on my every single post like Heddi does :)

Why not, pile ups rule!!!

I have to go to work, but all this shit sucks. Happy living in your echo chamber, since no alternate thoughts are welcomed!

PS: even the most hard ass physician would listen to us as opposed to attacking from the begging! I guess bullies on here rule it all.

To Heddi
Karma will sort it all out. I don't know you, never done anything wrong to you, but you hate me.

You are sick.

[tammywammy]

354. Nevermind

Since you can't reply to this, there's no need for my question to remain.

[Texasgal]

357. i have to say that I am glad that

she was shut out if this thread.

I AM an RN and I am damn proud of it. DK needed to be deleted. Passing crappy info sucks especially in our profession!

[tammywammy]

358. Passing bad medical info is really bad.

You know I'm always willing to be proven wrong, but I just don't understand people that have the facts laid out in front of them that continue to ignore the facts. Sigh. I can only hope that she's paying attention to her professors and whatnot since she's a nursing student (which is a scary thought, indeed).

[Texasgal]

360. Word.

ASA is a tough thing for people to understand. Spreading disinformation is bad. Agreed.

It's hard for me to believe that she is indeed a nursing student.

[ScreamingMeemie]

361. She is not.

No core curriculum nursing student would be "rounding in onco" in her first year.

My niece (she is going to be an AMAZING nurse) just started nursing school, and it's all book work. In her words, she had more patient contact in high school vocational classes.


On edit: I DO think she (darkangel) is addicted to Grey's Anatomy however...

[ScreamingMeemie]

359. What has happened here:

You have made a collection of untrue statements,
others have tried to educate you on those statements,
you have gotten more irritated,
you made up a story about "rounding" in oncology when you are only doing core study at this point,
I began to doubt you were a nurse,
Last week you stated (and I defended you in that thread) that the U.S. was the best, and you lived here on your own--without family,
Now...all of a sudden...you have a dad and a brother who live here (did they move in the last few days??),
You cannot possibly be passing any nursing type classes because you don't know what happens with a Pap smear (or how to spell it), the difference between a prostate screening and a PSA test, and any number of other things,

Now you are sad and angry because you were called out on it, so you are accusing others of attacking you.

All I wanted was information on how one can "round" less than a year into nursing school... and you conveniently stopped talking to me.

I'm sorry, but that is the definition of trolling. You are only upset that you were caught. No offense, but I don't respect those who lie to try to prove a point that isn't true.

[Heddi]

368. I'd like to set straight some of the lies this poster has told

1) I have not alerted on a single post of darkangel 218. Not in this thread, not in others. Certainly not in one where I'm participating. I can handle arguments on my own without alerting a jury or moderator (back in the mod days)

2) In this now hidden post, http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023946225#post31 DA states:
Do you remember the call out thread in the Lounge where you said you hated me and couldn't wait for me to be gone?? Even though I never talked to you before. Then you apologized to Skinner and said that's the last. You think the admins aren't seeing this?

The above is a flat out lie. I never made such a post in the lounge, about this or any other poster. There was no apology to Skinner or any other Admin because the above never happened. She either has me confused with someone else, or she's fabricating an issue from whole cloth. Either way, it's a lie.

I am an RN. Several DU'ers are friends with me on facebook. They know my real name, and they know I"m an RN. THey know my husband is an RN. They know the name of the school I attended for my ADN and the one I am currently attending for my BSN.

This poster is lying about me. SEarch my posts and you will see that I have never made such a post about her, or anyone, in the lounge or anywhere else. Not just on DU3, but from my initial and original registration on DU in October 2011 under the name I still have, "heddi".

Again in this post, now locked, http://www.democraticunderground.com/1018507392 she accuses me of alerting on her. Firstly, alerts are anonymous. Secondly, I have not ever knowingly alerted on her posts, certainly not one in a thread where we were both particpating.

I would ask her to retract her lies, or show proof of her claims, but I believe she's been locked out of this thread, possibly locked out of DU as her account is now up for review for having more than 5 hidden posts in 90 days, so I don't expect a retraction or a posting proving her claims

[seabeyond]

374. no you did not alert on her. i have never alerted on her. i have never cared about her. this is

the first time i have really interacted with her, i believe, cause it was a big enough deal...

you did not alert. nor i. nor kali. but wtf, right.

i had someone pm me telling me they alerted on both posts. just a passer by'er. it really does not behoove us to guess who alerted on a post. inevitably we will be wrong, i have learned in the past. i do not even try to figure out who. or guess. or make unfounded accusations.

[ScreamingMeemie]

375. I am hopeful that darkangel truly is "with the angels of DU" now...

She was dangerously misinformed, and the majority of her background has been proven to be a fib at least, an outright crazy-assed lie at worst.

I wouldn't worry about it Heddi, it's pretty obvi that she'd gone round the bend.

[tammywammy]

376. I alerted on post #346.

Other than that I've never alerted on her. She deserved the hide.

Regardless, her post misinformation regarding medical care and digging her heels in deeper when people pointed out she was wrong is what had people "ganging" up on her. No one on this board should be surprised when they post junk info and get called on it. I'm worried about her lack of logic and understanding of the medical field if she really is a nursing student.

Besides this her normal behavior of PWI, lashing out and then trying to delete her posts to cover her actions is what makes DU suck.

[kestrel91316]

378. What are you? Twelve years old??

[Vashta Nerada]

365. Well, she had three hidden posts today so her account is flagged for review.

That one really needs to chill out and quit spreading misinformation, ahem, lies.

[LeftyMom]

366. She deleted the spin off, I'm sure this one is next.

Then she'll be whining in the lounge.

[Texasgal]

367. She already did.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1018507392

[tammywammy]

370. Her account has been flagged for review.

I don't think she can delete this thread now. I went back and found trumad's thread about what happens when you're flagged for review. http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023902265

This notification is to inform you that your account has been automatically flagged for review. Usually when this happens it is because an account has had too many posts hidden in a relatively short period of time.

Please note: You have not been permanently banned from the site. However, some restrictions have been temporarily placed on your account until an an administrator can review it. We apologize for the inconvenience.

-- You are temporarily unable to post messages, recommend threads, or vote in polls.
-- You are temporarily unable to send Mail.
-- You are temporarily unable to send alerts.

These temporary restrictions will remain on your account until an administrator is able to review it. Typically, this account review occurs sometime over the next 24 hours, except on weekends and holidays when it may take longer. Please do not create another account in order to circumvent this review, which would be a violation of our Terms of Service.

Thank you for your patience and understanding.

The DU Administrators

[dflprincess]

364. I really hate to be tacky and put this into a dollars & cents argument.

But healthy children cost all of us less - so it is to our benefit that women have access to good prenatal and post-partum care. And sometimes pregnancies happened when they weren't expected - no matter how careful the parents were being.

I suppose you also object to your tax money going to WIC.

[tandot]

382. WTF? Are you stupid? If you are really a nurse, I hope I'll never be in your care :(

Prostate exams are covered. Why do you lie about it?

People like you should NEVER be involved in patient care. You completely ignore facts, don't listen to sound medical advise, and don't seem to even know what you are talking about. Do some research ... and then apologize to his community. Holy fuck