Young women, are you upset you'll have to pay for Viagra

[Pab Sungenis]

and prostate exams when you buy insurance?

Just curious, since you seem to be using insurance to spread your misandry here on DU today.

[NYC_SKP]

1. Posts like this, and the other, aren't really becoming a progressive discussion board.

And there was a time this would have been locked.

[Cerridwen]

2. Yeah, but we've become the board for

"big tent" and polite bigotry.

[mattclearing]

242. Applause n/t

[elleng]

4. Love you, SKP.

[ScreamingMeemie]

15. And, at this point...at this time of night...I am guess the best jury vote would be 3-3.

But it will be more like 4-2 to leave.

[CaliforniaPeggy]

18. You were right...........3 to 3 to leave: I am surprised. I thought it would be hidden.

Automated Message
AUTOMATED MESSAGE: Results of your Jury Service

Mail Message
At Mon Oct 28, 2013, 07:39 PM an alert was sent on the following post:

Young women, are you upset you'll have to pay for Viagra
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023940422

REASON FOR ALERT:

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS:

Shit-stirring and sexist. Please hide.

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Mon Oct 28, 2013, 07:47 PM, and the Jury voted 3-3 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: No explanation given
Juror #2 voted to HIDE IT and said: No explanation given
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: Well, I think this post is pretty stupid, unworthy of the poster from what I've seen in the past, but if she/he doesn't mind showing his dumb statement, go for it.
Juror #4 voted to HIDE IT and said: This post would have been fine, except for that awfully snarky last sentence. Whatever happened to being polite? HIDE.
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: No explanation given
Juror #6 voted to HIDE IT and said: Fairly clear that the post is intended to disrupt. If the poster is wishing to make a point please consider another way to do so.

Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.

[ellie]

49. Why I don't serve on juries

that and the fact there was going to be a crackdown on editorializing when casting a vote.

[1000words]

32. Thread win, right here!

That stated, this thread is going in the trash where it belongs.

[Dash87]

44. Becoming? No. Entertaining? Yep!

[snooper2]

75. you missed a word-

Posts like this, and the other, aren't really becoming a progressive discussion board.

Should read

Posts like this, and the other, aren't really becoming of a progressive discussion board.



FYI

[nomorenomore08]

261. + another

Really kind of ridiculous that we would even have to "address" this shit...

[dsc]

3. actually you should at least be factual in your posting

prostate exams actually are not covered in all plans. On edit, frankly I don't think Viagra ought to be covered in many cases and certainly shouldn't be a required benefit of a health plan in any case.

[LeftyMom]

16. Yes they are. The PSA* screening isn't because the evidence for it's utility is lacking.

You really should read up on this stuff instead of having to have it explained to you by somebody who doesn't even have the bit in question.

*Prostate Specific Androgen

[dsc]

17. I should have looked it up myself

and not relied upon the thread I did, you have a point. I figured since it was stated and argued about for about an hour with literally no one saying he or she was wrong, that he or she must have been right.

[liberal_at_heart]

69. Ovarian cancer tests aren't that great but they're all we have for now. Does that mean it shouldn't

be covered as well? My husband's friend had high PSA numbers and come to find out he did have prostate cancer. He is alive today because of that test and early treatment. Doctors should be making these decisions not some cost saving insurance a$$hole.

[seabeyond]

74. that is exactly the point. doctors are making the decisions. not preventative, but

if the doctor feels it is warranted, he then prescribes the test.

[lumberjack_jeff]

106. How would you feel if I "explained" to you the reasons you shouldn't have a mammogram?

And thus why your insurance shouldn't cover it as preventive care?

After all, you shouldn't be the one making this decision so the financial barriers I have chosen to put in your insurance coverage are there for your own good.

The fact that it would save me money? I'm offended that you'd even suggest such a thing!

[liberal_at_heart]

112. I'm offended too lumberjackjeff and I'm a woman. The sex wars on DU are ridiculous. I usually

don't post on sexist threads, but I had to comment on this. I know someone who's life was saved by a PSA exam and I have a husband and son. I would expect that they would get the same kind of preventative care that I and my daughter get.

[Pab Sungenis]

114. Just one more reason we need single payer.

Take the profit motive out of it. Cover everything.

Hell, I'll go further and say that we need the NHS like Britain has.

[liberal_at_heart]

115. We desperately need single payer, and I agree. I would like to see us have a system like

Britain has.

[tammywammy]

119. NHS & the PSA Test

No screening
There is currently no prostate cancer screening programme on the NHS. However, the government is committed to introducing one if and when an accurate diagnosis test becomes available and there is a clear treatment process.

http://www.nhs.uk/Livewell/Prostatehealth/Pages/psa-test.aspx

[liberal_at_heart]

126. well then, that is something that should change. PSA tests do save lives. So do

ovarian cancer screenings. Ovarian cancer screenings are not all that great but they are all we have, and they do save lives.

[tammywammy]

129. Unfortunately, the PSA is unreliable.

Routinely screening all men to check their prostate-specific antigen (PSA) levels is a controversial subject in the international medical community.

In some countries, all men aged over 50 are recommended to have an annual PSA test. However, this is not the case in the UK.

There are several reasons for this:

•PSA tests are unreliable and often suggest the presence of prostate cancer when no cancer exists (a false-positive result). This means many men often have invasive and sometimes painful biopsies for no reason.
•Treating prostate cancer in its early stages can be beneficial, but side effects of the various treatments are potentially so serious that men may choose to delay treatment until it is absolutely necessary.
•Although screening has been shown to reduce a man’s chance of dying from prostate cancer, it would mean many men getting treated unnecessarily.

http://www.nhs.uk/Conditions/cancer-of-the-prostate/Pages/prevention.aspx

That's why so many organizations in the US don't recommend PSA tests for every male. There's a lot of false positives and can cause more issues than it resolves. In the past few years in the US there has been a lot of debate on annual pap smears for women with no history of abnormal results and also with annual mammograms.

The issue is that the PSA isn't a good test for blaket preventative care. It's used as a follow up if the digital rectal exam detects an issue. The same as if I had a pap smear that came back abnormal, there's a follow up test that's not preventative either.

[liberal_at_heart]

130. it is all we have right now and it should be covered. So should ovarian cancer screenings.

[tammywammy]

135. Sorry, I disagree

The PSA is not considered preventative for a very good reasons - it's unreliable. It's covered just like any other additional test a patient and doctor choose to do.

[liberal_at_heart]

138. I don't give a damn if you agree or not. My husband's friend is alive because of that test.

[tammywammy]

140. I'm sorry, I thought this was a civil discussion.

Regarding the overall usefulness of a test. I'm glad that your friend's husband is alive, but that (and your emotions) do not negate that there are very good scientific reasons that the PSA is not considered preventative.

[liberal_at_heart]

142. I guess that means you think ovarian cancer screenings shouldn't be considered preventative either.

Well as someone who has a gene that puts me at greater risk for ovarian cancer I can tell you I don't care what anybody thinks of the effectiveness of these tests. They do save lives and they should be covered.

[tammywammy]

143. I don't know the scientific literature regarding ovarian cancer screenings.

But if the current test was as reliable as the PSA, then no I would not think that it should be a mandatory test for all persons, but an additional test that a doctor and patient could follow up with.

I care about what the scientific community thinks about the effectiveness of testing, even concerning my own medical issues. Why should people go through unnecessary testing that could lead to more issues if the basic test isn't necessary? If a man has issues discovered during his rectal digital examination, then definitely follow up testing is appropriate - but a blanket testing of all men with unreliable testing is bad medical care in my opinion.

I myself undergo an annual specific test that's not considered preventative. I pay for it "out of pocket" (with my HSA). After consultation with my doctor it was a choice I made.

I will leave it at that, since as you say you "don't care what anybody thinks of the effectiveness of these tests".

[seabeyond]

146. i read last night the PSA test for prostate was like 75% false positive. nt

[seabeyond]

145. and because you have said genes, along with breast cancer, and prostate cancer for men that is

highly effected thru genetic for the deadly, fast moving prostate cancer that effects mostly young men, the doctor should be aware and take appropriate action. that is covered.

[CreekDog]

201. that's right, no doctor is going to tell you what kind of medicine works

that's what patient's friends are for, not doctors.

do you hear yourself?

[mercuryblues]

156. exactlyTamm.

Ovarian cancer screening [ca-125] isn't covered under preventative either. For the same reason the Pca test is not covered. The results are inaccurate.

The CA-125 has a 50% false positive rate and the PCA has a 75% false positive rate. They both also have a false negative rate.

Both are checked for in a physically. If a Dr feels something suspicious, he orders further testing.

[liberal_at_heart]

159. that means that 50% of women and 25% of men that are tested are getting proper results and

results that could very well be saving their life. Of course we need better tests but until we have better tests we have to use the ones we have.

[seabeyond]

160. literally, hands on is more accurate and that is covered. when further tests are needed the doctor

orders and that is covered. what you want is there. why are you fighting it so hard?

[mercuryblues]

161. yes

The tests are ordered if a person is n a high risk group or if the Dr. during his exam feels something abnormal. The tests suck for results But it is all we have for now. What worries me more than the false positives are the false negatives. Neither of these tests are denied coverage; they just aren't considered reliable enough to be considered preventative care-yet.

Some people on this board are screaming unfair!1! unfair1!1 Women get free cancer screening tests in a mammogram and men don't get a free PCA test. A mammogram has an 83% rate of finding cancer. The rate of a false negative is below 20%, mostly because of breast density.

edited in:

An ultrasound would detect breast cancer in many of the false negatives, but again that is not covered under preventative care and insurance companies would not cover it for breast exams. States are now starting to enact laws that require insurance companies to cover ultrasounds in certain cases for women.

[seabeyond]

162. the thing, i have a father genetically inclined with a killer prostate cancer gene. a husband whose

grandfather died of prostate cancer so it is something their family watches. i have two sons that will be genetically inclined for this also. it is knowing our medical history, and being aware and informed.

no one wants our men to die. i certainly do not want my men to die. i am the one that schedules the appointment for my husband to get tested. i will be the one to ensure my sons do the same.

[LeftyMom]

199. Oh my god, that poor soul was corrected by a lady.

[CreekDog]

202. OMG, men are treated so unfairly

luckily the higher pay makes it sting a bit less.

[RetroLounge]

208. Ouch

RL

[alarimer]

5. No and I don't have to pay for it.

That's not how insurance works. It's not tailored to an individual. You are paying a rate based on the group you belong to. In my case, state employees, which are male, female, old, young, tall, short, healthy, not healthy. We are in a pool together.

[Whisp]

6. juvenile.

[BainsBane]

7. Insurance has paid for that stuff for ages

What's your gripe? That insurance companies are expected to pay for child birth and the propagation of the human species? Do you wish you yourself had not received decent medical care at your own birth?

Why all this fretting about medical coverage that might make a small dent in corporate profits?

[LeftyMom]

8. "Misandry" is an oppression that exists in the minds of neckbeards on the internet.

[ScreamingMeemie]

11. +1

[kestrel91316]

31. [phone] 000

[Starry Messenger]

33. And an extra plus for "neckbeard"

[CreekDog]

220. +1

[Sheldon Cooper]

38. Hahahahahah!!!

[nomorenomore08]

263. Pretty much...

[Skittles]

9. define "YOU"

or that just a smear of women in general based on the rantings of a few?

[Pab Sungenis]

99. No more a smear than

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023938561

Young Men, are you upset that you'll no longer be able to get health insurance cheaper than women?

for example, there's a low coverage policy with pretty gaping holes that costs just $63/month for men and $93/month for women.

one of the reasons that plan was cheaper was because you are male.

how do you feel now that you'll have to pay the same amount as women for health coverage?

So "you" should be seen in the same sense as "you" in that thread.

As I have said, misandry is tolerated and even praised here. But try to get them to look in a mirror and suddenly you're a sexist.

[Skittles]

189. that is one person's opionion

doesn't mean she represents ALL WOMEN

[Pab Sungenis]

194. But she's happy to assume that the worst of us

Represent all men.

[Skittles]

197. and now you're doing the same regarding women

maybe you're both wrong?

[seabeyond]

200. i am confused here skittle. he linked to creekdogs thread. a MAN. and he well knows creekdog is a

MAN. yet he allows you to believe it is a woman, and that it is merely one womans opinion and went right along with you not knowing creekdog is a MAN.

not that i give a shit with the whole argument, but damn.... i hate allowing misrepresentation.

carry on.

[Pab Sungenis]

204. Nope.

Not all women, only misandrists, which are a small but vocal minority.

[CreekDog]

213. why are you calling me a woman?

[NuclearDem]

215. Because it fits his narrative that there's a cadre of misandrists among the DU women.

Or specifically, that no man would dare write something that could be remotely construed as offensive to men.

[CreekDog]

216. i sent him a PM correcting him, he posted all the while, not correcting himself

I think the statement that I'm a woman was intentional as some lame attempt to keep the upper hand on his argument.

[BainsBane]

222. Creek Dog is male!

Not a woman.

[Dr. Strange]

256. Hahahahaha!

https://www.google.com/search?q=pulling+a+creekdog&sitesearch=democraticunderground.com

[BainsBane]

257. pulling a CreekDog on CreekDog?

[Dr. Strange]

258. That would appear to be the case.

This is exactly the kind of recursive shenanigans that resulted in the great DU outage of 2012!

[BainsBane]

223. Actually he represents no women

Creek Dog is male.

[CreekDog]

203. Why do you think I'm a woman? Talk about a clueless poster.

not only do you not know what you're talking about, you don't know whom you're talking about.

just a completely clueless post.

[seabeyond]

206. everyone knows you, everyone know pab, both you two have been here forever.

you two really do not know each other? i thought for sure it had to be a play. hmmm...

you all talk in the same circles often about the same issue.

ok. whatever

[CreekDog]

207. I know him here. He doesn't seem to know me, but he's called me female about 6 times or so

I think he thinks I'm RainDog who is female, but I'm not her.

If anyone is reading this, I suggest that Pab's post calling me female is as much BS as his OP is.

[seabeyond]

210. i know i have said at least... at least once you are a man. i guess this is all about not giving a

fuck what a person says. he decides you are a woman, so woman you be. i mean. wtf... huh, dude. lol

[CreekDog]

212. NO, he's decided to lie about me because it makes my post seem sexist if he calls me a woman

when in fact I'm male.

which is one of the reasons I felt that I could make the point I was making, because I am male, I wasn't encouraging sexism, but was addressing males like myself and trying to reason with them about why their premiums were going up (because females were being charged more than they were).

[seabeyond]

214. which is why, as the first to post on your OP, i discussed my boys, and what they will experience

with this equal cost law. i did not know we were making it into a battle.

[nomorenomore08]

264. That OP was posted by a man. And it was tongue-in-cheek.

[patricia92243]

10. I thought insurance always paid for viagra - but not birth control. Now we have equality.

[City Lights]

47. That's what I thought, too.

OP is just shit stirring.

[Humanist_Activist]

186. That's simply factually untrue, many plans don't cover Viagra or Cialis, or any ED medication...

except under specific circumstances, or through a letter of medical necessity from a doctor.

Even plans that do cover ED medications heavily restrict how many can be administered a month, usually limits of 4 to 6 pills a month is typical.

[BainsBane]

12. Here you go

[Dash87]

46. "Wahhhhh!" XD

That concisely sums up most "Misandry!" whining.

[a la izquierda]

241. That GIF is a pisser.

[pitbullgirl1965]

13. No.

To be fair birth control and abortion should be covered as well. A hellva lot cheaper then having kids, esp, unwanted kids.

Viagra is also used for heart medication right?

[Blaukraut]

14. Middle aged woman here, but I'll say no and no

I want men to not have to die from prostate cancer, and I want those same men to be able to have healthy sexual relationships, as well, because in the end, it affects the women in their lives.

[Laelth]

80. Agreed. n/t

-Laelth

[Spider Jerusalem]

19. "Misandry"?

Because proactive correction of inherent gender imbalance in the American healthcare system is automatically anti-male, I suppose. You know what you sound like? One of those people who claims that affirmative action and laws against racial discrimination are "racist toward whites".

[BainsBane]

22. It is exactly the same

I've made that argument myself, yet the sexists can see no parallel because they see second class citizenship for women as somehow natural.

In case you missed it, this perfectly illustrates that attitude.

[Lex]

30. Love the gif!

Perfect.

[Lex]

23. I agree. Leveling the playing field makes those already at an advantage feel mistreated.

Well, boo hoo.

[Pab Sungenis]

104. Leveling the playfield is fine.

I think it's overdue.

Sexist mockery of men when the playfield is leveled, however, is not welcome.

[seabeyond]

20. no. it has never even been a thought or consideration. or any other male medical condition.

never even thought of it until the continued threads attacking womens health care.

[LeftyMom]

21. No. Well, I'm kind of miffed about the insurance part because filtering human rights through

for profit corporations is horseshit, but everybody should have the health care they need irrespective of their sex or gender, and I guess this is a start.

[cyberswede]

24. Unrec. Stupidest post evah.

[NuclearDem]

25. MISANDRY!

Holy shit, what a good laugh.

And what's even funnier is that this was allowed to stand 3-3! MISANDRY I SAY

All those feminist man hating harpies just wanna ruin our fun.

[Jesus Malverde]

34. "feminist man hating harpies"

MISANDRY!
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=3940579

REASON FOR ALERT:

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS:

"feminist man hating harpies"

That's not how one should conduct themselves on a Democratic message board.

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Mon Oct 28, 2013, 10:28 PM, and the Jury voted 1-5 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: No explanation given
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: No explanation given
Juror #3 voted to HIDE IT and said: "All those feminist man hating harpies just wanna ruin our fun."

I am serving on this jury context-free, as I haven't followed the prior exchange. The above phrase may have been intended as sarcasm. Nevertheless, I think that although it inflames, it illuminates nothing.
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: No explanation given
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: Pretty sure it's missing the sarcasm thingy.
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: Alerter missed the sarcasm without the animated drippy thing?

[seabeyond]

35. since most of us feminist man hating harpies knows nucleardem often stands up for women,

i think we got the sarcasm. wonder who alerted.

[NuclearDem]

41. That's what I get for not using the sarcasm tag.

[seabeyond]

45. maybe. i thought it was kinda obvious. hence, making my comment. nt

[Pab Sungenis]

73. Wasn't me.

I got the sarcasm, inaccurate as it was.

[Pab Sungenis]

60. Only fair since the post mocking we poor widdle mens with a similar subject line

was also allowed to stand 3-3.

[dionysus]

26. probably not, einstein, because their maternity care will be covered

[NoOneMan]

27. (Ive been told) Viagra is an important part of prostate surgery recovery

I knew a guy who couldn't afford it after surgery and his doctor prescribed it as treatment

[SummerSnow]

28. stupid post

[kestrel91316]

29. We've ALWAYS had to pay for men's health issues and ED meds.

It only ever galled me when I would remember that my premiums did NOT cover my own birth control.

Consider THAT before you go acting all hurt and put-upon.

[Warren DeMontague]

36. Which was fucking appalling --- The not covering Birth Control aspect, I mean.

Another long-overdue victory for the ACA, despite the inevitable RW tantrums over it.

[Pab Sungenis]

57. Who's hurt? Who's put upon?

A misandrist, mocking post was made yesterday about men now paying more for health insurance to help cover the gap. I have no problem with that.

But since we poor widdle mens were asked our thoughts on that in such a condescending manner, I now ask the same.

[seabeyond]

65. so cause you are pissed at the MAN that wrote the OP you decide a whole bunch of sexist garbage

is warranted. brilliant

[Pab Sungenis]

71. Not sexist at all.

Just anti-misandrist.

I've always felt that there should be no difference in costs for insurance between men and women. I've also always happily paid my school taxes even though I do not and will never have children.

Why? Because it's good for society. We all share the expense and risk, and we all share in the benefits.

With insurance now being moved from an individual matter to a societal one, I'm happy to cover the difference.

BUT...

Responding to one or two sexists who don't see it your way (which is also my way) does not give you liberty to attack every man on here, or every man in the world.

Treating your allies as if they are your enemies can quickly make enemies out of them. Knock it off.

[seabeyond]

77. you know well it was sexist. that was your intent pab. you do not fool anyone. because you are

pissed at a man, that you are probably running a long time battle with. hey... i know. take your pissy mood out on women.

[Pab Sungenis]

85. I am not pissed at a man.

I am pissed at an attitude.

And I don't take it out on women. I take it out on the Girl Who Cried Misogyny.

[seabeyond]

88. ah... i am a girl, to your man. ya, gotcha. keep going. our society has a ton of sexist jabs you can

throw out as you insist it is just coincidence.

[Pab Sungenis]

102. It's a reference to the story

of the boy who cried wolf.

If you haven't heard of the story, I'll synopsize it for you. A shepherd boy would keep claiming that a wolf was attacking his flock because it got the entire village to respond and he liked the attention. By the time a real wolf attacked, the villagers didn't come because they assumed it was another false alarm.

If you keep screaming sexism and misogyny where there is none, no one is going to listen to you when you have a real case to push.

[seabeyond]

105. lol.... dude

[Pab Sungenis]

109. Don't take my word for it.

http://www.eastoftheweb.com/short-stories/UBooks/BoyCri.shtml

[CreekDog]

209. Yes, dont' take your word for it because you don't know what you're talking about

how many times have you called me a woman on this thread --it's almost the basis of your thread.

and i'm male.

yes DON'T TAKE YOUR WORD FOR IT indeed. because you don't know what you're talking about.

[CreekDog]

226. not a girl.

still not clear on that are you? messes up your argument when one of your own made it rather than a woman.

[Comrade Grumpy]

166. My insurance doesn't cover ED drugs. I don't think most do in most cases.

Stupid gender wars are stupid. National health care for all.

[REP]

37. If you live in California, then yes. Otherwise, of course not.

[Sheldon Cooper]

39. You never fail to amuse.

Misandry!!

[Pab Sungenis]

54. If the lacy bra fits....

[Sheldon Cooper]

55. Misandry!

[Pab Sungenis]

63. Why are you screaming at a mirror?

[Sheldon Cooper]

84. You are getting your ass handed to you in this thread, and now you're reduced to

the equivalent of "I know you are, but what am I?" Is holding your breath until you turn blue next on the list?

Frankly, I'm enjoying every minute of it. Keep it up, it's entertaining.

[Pab Sungenis]

87. How are you handing anything to anyone in this thread?

You just keep parroting back "misandry!" without recognizing that you are taking part in it.

[Sheldon Cooper]

91. Snort!

I'm not the one doing the ass-handing, it's coming from EVERYONE ELSE in this thread - and guess what? Many of the ass-handers are men. I'm just enjoying the show. Please proceed.

[CreekDog]

231. including the author of the OP he's so angry at

and mine isn't sexist, it's exposing sexism and saying that it's wrong, saying that unequal treatment is wrong.

[seabeyond]

61. really pad. you really need to go to the lacy bra? geeezus.

[Pab Sungenis]

66. I didn't feel like mentioning the Ferrangamo shoes.

Hint: As long as you continue to see all men as your enemy, you will never make allies of them.

[seabeyond]

68. hint: as long as you make assumptions about me then you will always be wrong.

[Pab Sungenis]

82. I have never seen you post a single thing

praising of, or even neutral about, men.

Ever.

[seabeyond]

83. you would be sooooo far off. but i expect no less. that is a given. nt

[cyberswede]

90. That's too bad, because there are many

I think you're being willfully ignorant.

On a personal level, she posts about how proud she is of her sons, for example.

And her general point of view is that everyone should be treated equally. The fact that this includes women seems to stick in your craw.

[seabeyond]

94. and right now, i have a son that is trying all that to be adult as the burdens are weighing him down

so i am off to do up a care package to make his life a little gentler in understanding that even us adults need a helping hand, compassion and unconditional love, to continue on in grace. thank you

and you all have a good day.

[CreekDog]

232. and that the OP he's complaining about was written by a man, me

though he has posted that the OP was a woman, was a she, was a "girl", etc.

[seabeyond]

70. but, i am not seeing how that justifies your sexism you are going out of your way to give us in this

thread.

unless you are one of those that feel you are not responsible for your own actions. others made you do it.

[Pab Sungenis]

96. My sexism?

Oh, that is rich.

Back up your claims, please.

[CreekDog]

233. you said "if the lacy bra fits"

but you would never say anything insulting to a woman. oh no. back up claims you say!

[NuclearDem]

89. Wow! Doubling down!

You know, I'd say I'm surprised, but this is exactly what I expect from anyone who seriously uses the term misandry.

[MadrasT]

40. I am not young, but I don't give a flying fuck.

Insurance is a big fucking pool. Everybody has different needs.

If we wanted everything to be a la carte, pay for what you use... nobody would have (or need) insurance.

You use "misandry" like it is an actual thing, when it really means "a man somewhere on the internet had his feelings hurt". Lame.

[raccoon]

42. You didn't have much to do last night, did you? nt

[HappyMe]

43. I'm not really young -

but no, nobody should be upset about paying for anything. I think of it as a big pass the hat situation. Toss in some money, if somebody needs something, they get it.

[Ohio Joe]

48. Another proud member of our 'mens' group crying about oppression...

Poor babies, it's such a horror how the mean women keep you all down

[Pab Sungenis]

52. Who said anything about oppression?

Just posting this in response to the misandrist thread asking we poor widdle mens if we were upset because women could no longer be charged more for insurance.

The answer, by the way, is "no."

[NuclearDem]

56. You did. Protip: you screamed misandry.

[Pab Sungenis]

58. I didn't scream it.

I stated it. And I have no problem with fee equity between men and women.

[Ohio Joe]

72. Misandry... You keep saying that...

[URL=.html][IMG][/IMG][/URL]

[Pab Sungenis]

79. Misandry is not oppression.

Nor is misogyny.

From Webster's:

Definition of MISANDRY

: a hatred of men
— mis·an·drist noun or adjective
Origin of MISANDRY

mis- (as in misanthropy) + andr- + 2-y
First Known Use: circa 1909

mi·sog·y·ny noun \mə-ˈsä-jə-nē\
: a hatred of women

No oppression implied in either word.

To expand, Wikipedia states

Misandry can be manifested in numerous ways, including sexual discrimination, denigration of men, violence against men, and sexual objectification of men.

What we see here is denigration of men, mainly through incessant mockery.

There is a distinct cadre on DU that hates men. There is a distinct cadre on DU that hates women. The latter is not tolerated and the former is.

[NuclearDem]

97. Wrong, wrong, and wrong.

Utterly sexist shit is constantly allowed to stand here. In fact, one of the only times I've seen it stamped out was after fitman's blatantly sexist tirade against members of HoF, and it had to be utterly blatant for that to happen.

There's no cadre of people here who hate men, there's a cadre of people here who hate bullshit apologists for rape culture and sexist tendencies. It just so happens most of the offenders are male.

And misandry is absolutely a term used in oppressive contexts. Men who see women getting uppity about their rights and demands to be treated like human beings see their privilege under attack and cry misandry as a result. It's a tool used by MRAs to denigrate feminists.

[Pab Sungenis]

100. It's a word that defines hatred of men

as expressed through denigration of men, discrimination against men, and sexual oppression.

And we see constant denigration of men on here. Yet I have never seen a poster banned for misandry. But plenty of misogynists have had their hat handed to them.

I have no problem with women wanting equality. I'm all for it. I'm for striking out all gender distinctions under the law.

But wanting equality doesn't give you the right to degrade men. And it will lose you allies.

[seabeyond]

103. the continued threat from that that if women do not toe the line we lose your support.

are you saying, if i am too agressive as you state, if you do not like what i say, that is all it takes for you to turn your back on women's rights and equality? really pab, that is all it takes?

you will tell me what i can not say or what i can say. the tone i am to use and all that right?

oh fuck, why dont you and the other men just stand in front of us and do the talking, since we are so dependent on your support and you know so much better what we should say to get that support.

fuck... be a leader to all us lacy bra wearing women.

[Pab Sungenis]

107. Threat? No. Not a threat.

And it's not aggression that's the problem. It's the denigration and hatred you express.

You can't make me turn my back on women's rights and equality. You CAN make me turn my back on YOU.

You can say what you want. What you don't seem to want to accept is that people are going to judge you based on your words. You keep insulting, denigrating, and attacking men, men aren't going to flock to your side.

[seabeyond]

108. back pedal. bye .... i got a son to take care of. nt

[Pab Sungenis]

110. Not back pedaling.

Clarifying.

[NuclearDem]

111. I'm a regular poster in HoF, and I have yet to see any of this denigration of men.

Unless you think fighting rape culture and misogyny means hating men.

[Pab Sungenis]

113. I don't read HoF.

I actually trashed it because it's not one of my interests, and I don't want to be called to a jury in there. I did that with a number of support groups.

You're the one dragging HoF into this. I make no claims on that matter.

I was referring to two misandrist threads in GD last night, one of which this one's subject line is mocking. It has nothing to do with HoF.

[NuclearDem]

116. Well, since it's apparently where you would think all the misandrists gather

You would see the highest concentration of misandry. Except there isn't any.

Seriously, give up on this misandry crap. The only people you're being an ally to are the utterly misogynistic MRAs.

[Pab Sungenis]

121. Don't put words in my mouth.

You're trying to distort the issue.

I have no opinions on HoF other than I am not interested in reading it, and do not want to be dragged into a jury on an alert in there.

I did not say the misandrists gathered anywhere. In fact, before I posted my statement about "cadres" I went back and edited what I originally typed. I had originally said "group" of misandrists, but didn't want to make it look like an attack on HoF. So I used "cadre." I also considered "cabal" but that would imply organization where I don't think there is any among the misandrists on DU.

[Upton]

118. What about suggesting all men should be castrated at puberty??

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1255&pid=25339

[NuclearDem]

128. One sentence, and one I neither condone nor see as even close to a majority opinion.

One sentence does not a den of misandry make.

[EOTE]

132. How about suggesting that men are weak?

And that they need to feel superior to women in order to feel like men? The thing is, you get together a whole bunch of those single sentence and then you get your den of misandry.

[NuclearDem]

139. That's not misandry, that's pointing out an obvious cornerstone of patriarchy.

In fact, it's one that afflicts men just as much as it afflicts women. Gender normativity and enforcing nonsensical gender roles hurts men too, which was the actual point behind seabeyond's post.

So, again, calling out male privilege and the obvious flaws of patriarchy is being interpreted as "misandry."

[NuclearDem]

154. Thanks for finally showing your true colors, and so blatantly.

AUTOMATED MESSAGE: Results of your alert
At Tue Oct 29, 2013, 12:18 PM you sent an alert on the following post:

OK, so why do women need to kill their children?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=3943165

REASON FOR ALERT:

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

YOUR COMMENTS:

Do I really need to explain this?

Harpies, illogical, murdery...

A randomly-selected Jury of DU members completed their review of this alert at Tue Oct 29, 2013, 12:25 PM, and voted 6-0 to HIDE IT.

Juror #1 voted to HIDE IT and said: No explanation given
Juror #2 voted to HIDE IT and said: I hope it's obvious why this should be hidden. Imagine if a parallel rant were written about any other group.
Juror #3 voted to HIDE IT and said: Yuck!! Foul stuff...
Juror #4 voted to HIDE IT and said: Ugly sexism at its worst. Using anecdotes to attack an entire gender is beyond the pale. This is bigoted.
Juror #5 voted to HIDE IT and said: WTF is this poster thinking?
Juror #6 voted to HIDE IT and said: No explanation given

Thank you.

[EOTE]

155. True colors?

You mean for pointing out that lambasting men with broad brush smears is perfectly acceptable? It wasn't very difficult to point that out. Any broad brush statement against women is immediately slammed en masse or hidden. Any awful broad brust statement against men is automatically allowed... BECAUSE PATRIARCHY!!!! You'll even say that it doesn't exist until it's pointed out to you directly. Maybe you'd all be best to recognize that misandry is, in fact, a real word with a real definition. Pretending it doesn't exist is pretty damned stupid.

[NuclearDem]

158. Your ridiculous characterization of what patriarchy actually is is telling.

You're clearly not interested in having a productive discussion.

Read some Jezebel articles on the patriarchy, then get back to me if you're still confused over what we're talking about.

[Upton]

133. Nice you don't condone it..

but your claim is "I have yet to see any of this denigration of men"..and I just offered you one example. I agree one comment doesn't necessarily represent all of the HoF group..but the same should also hold true for the Mens group, wouldn't you agree?

[NuclearDem]

141. That's a fair statement.

And I don't equate all members of the Men's Group with some of the more despicable things posted in there.

[Upton]

144. Maybe you don't

but take a look at some of the posts in this thread..rather than taking on the OP, broad brush smears of the Mens group seem to have taken center stage instead....

Btw, I don't equate all members of HoF with some of the more despicable things posted there either..

[BainsBane]

182. While you don't condemn an outrageous attack on half of humanity

Last edited Tue Oct 29, 2013, 06:05 PM - Edit history (1)

What a shock.

[Upton]

192. "an outrageous attack on half of humanity"..

Wow, hyperbole much?

[BainsBane]

193. really?

Months later you're outraged by that comment in HOF but you think my description of the hidden post is hyperbole? You have no sense of proportion. Not only that, you continue to whine about the comment even AFTER reading what EOTE wrote. I guess if it isn't against men, it's just not important. You couldn't be more transparent.

[Upton]

195. I'm not outraged...

It takes a whole lot to get me so. Actually, I find you and HoF more humorous than anything else. So, please keep it up. And I only used that comment in your group to illustrate a point in my response to that one particular poster..

[BainsBane]

196. What point?

That you can't tell irony when you read it. You pitched a fit because another member didn't denounce a post several months old. That's awfully long to remember something that doesn't outrage you.

I'll help you illustrate your point:

[BainsBane]

187. You are dealing with people who search relentlessly

for signs of "misandry," meaning having to share anything with the half of humanity they hold in complete contempt. That poster in HOF used the concept ironically, as a somewhat clumsy rhetorical device. The resident whiners posted a thread looking for misandry on DU and took an entire whole month to find a single example.

For some reason, some people are not able to distinguish between their own feelings of inadequacy and systemic discrimination. They could trash HOF rather than looking for reasons to be outraged, but that wouldn't feed the carefully nurtured victimization complex that means so much to some. They imagine a remark like that more serious than rape and domestic abuse because they see the comment as directed against the part of the population that matters. What they feel to realize is that all they succeed in doing is broadcasting their own perceived lack of accomplishments. No man who is strong and accomplished resents women, just as no white person who is successful or even reasonably content resents people of color.

[nomorenomore08]

268. +1000

Awesome post. Pretty much says it all.

[BainsBane]

183. Your irony meter is broken

along with basic reading comprehension. I guess if the goal is to feel persecuted, people can find ways to do that. Naturally this is identical to insisting child care and birth control not be covered by medical insurance. Poor men. They have to share the planet with women. Wah, Wah.

[BainsBane]

137. The problem is some see efforts to end discrimination as misandry

which is precisely what your OP conveys. You're upset that being female is no longer a preexisting condition.

[Pab Sungenis]

148. No, I'm not upset about that.

I'm upset that a mocking misandrist post was made yesterday taunting men that there is now equity in insurance premiums between the genders.

[BainsBane]

149. All this is the result of one post?

You need a thicker skin.

[Pab Sungenis]

150. Actually, two posts yesterday

from posters with a long history of misandrist posts. So I mocked one of them back.

[BainsBane]

153. So mock them back

You don't need to start a flame war. I don't know the posts in question, but I will point out there is a difference between someone being an asshole and a systemic problem. Misandry implies something systemic on the level of misogyny, which is clearly not the case. So you didn't like those posts. You have every right to call those members on it, but you have created an unflattering image of yourself through this this OP.

Also the entire premise of your OP is wrong. Those procedures have commonly been covered by insurance policies for ages, while birth control has not. It never in my wildest dreams occurred to me that anyone would object to coverage of childbirth until the last couple of weeks on DU. My ability to imagine such reactionary views was clearly limited.

[Pab Sungenis]

157. That's what I did.

I linked to the post elsewhere in the thread.

The post asked young men if they resented not getting cheaper insurance. I mocked it with the OP.

[BainsBane]

167. Creek Dog's OP?

You know he's male, right?

[CreekDog]

217. Pab's called me female several times in this and another thread today

despite correction, he keeps doing it.

It's pretty hard to say I'm sexist against men when I am a man.

Or in his mind, he thinks it helps him win.

[BainsBane]

218. There you go again

Interfering with a good whine.

[lumberjack_jeff]

250. The ACA institutionalizes discrimination.

large sections would be illegal if: "Equality of rights under the law shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or by any State on account of sex."

[seabeyond]

253. pass the era. i really respect you jeff, and i think you are full of shit.

but... i really like you, lol

[lumberjack_jeff]

254. They are not mutually exclusive.

And yeah... pass the ERA.

[seabeyond]

255. ahhhhh.... lol.

[BainsBane]

260. Sexual oppression of men?

Oh dear. However do you survive. And just what comprises sexual oppression of men? The women you find "hot" don't want to have sex with you? You refuse to acknowledge how skewed your imaginary drivel is. You blame women for a thread by a man because you lack the capacity to understand it. Women are not out to get you. If you aren't happy with the state of your life, it's not our fault. Start to take some responsibility for yourself rather than pretending middle-class white men are so oppressed. That is just plain pathetic.

You aren't an ally to any woman. You have staked yourself out as clearly opposing equality, as your constant tirade about male oppression reveals. If men don't have everything, they are oppressed. You haven't found one single example of misandry; the one example you point to is from a man and you aren't honest enough to acknowledge your mistake. Moreover you clearly don't know there is a difference between individual antipathy and systematic oppression. If people don't like you, it's a result of your self-pity and stone-age belief system, not because you are male. There are few men who behave as you have in this thread, and a good portion of the people handing you your ass here are male.

[Ohio Joe]

131. oh good... You were able to use the google to find the definition...

Now I suggest trying to use it correctly because the truth is... There really is no misandry on DU. What there is, is a handful of cherry picked quotes... What there is, is people who are annoyed that there is a Group of 'men' who cry about misandry over women getting closer to equality.

"What we see here is denigration of men, mainly through incessant mockery"

I've never seen men mocked... Only the group that tries so hard to show how hard it is to be a man in a male dominated world... And they should be mocked as they are no different then the white supremacists who cry about reverse racism or the christian fundamentalists who go on about how they are being persecuted... These types of supposed oppression deserve to be mocked.

[Sheldon Cooper]

53. The struggle continues!

[Orrex]

50. Obviously, women should be required to bear the full cost of men's health insurance. Duh.

[Sheldon Cooper]

51. You forgot to add this: and get no health care for themselves in return.

[Orrex]

86. On the contrary, I simply assumed that that would be the case!

[geek tragedy]

59. Misandry is one of society's greatest ills, right next to reverse racism. nt

[Dash87]

62. And the War on Christmas!

[geek tragedy]

67. Not to mention the attack on marriage. nt

[seabeyond]

81. what is my bunny gonna do. oh NOES11!!1!1, no easter. nt

[NuclearDem]

92. And the homosexual agenda.

[geek tragedy]

93. Including their attack on traditional marriage. nt

[Vashta Nerada]

117. What is reverse racism?

Isn't racism just racism?

[geek tragedy]

122. Reverse racism is what white people whine about when they think black people

are oppressing them.

[Vashta Nerada]

123. Ah.

It's one of those made-up things.

[geek tragedy]

125. yep, hence the comparison to 'misandry' nt

[Vashta Nerada]

147. I see.

Thanks for the clarification.

[Iggo]

127. White people can't catch a break in this country.

[Ikonoklast]

188. The Man is always keepin' me down!

[seabeyond]

78. of course it is maddening to you. cause really a man has NOTHING to do with a preg. rw'ers are

maddened by this as well.

[Pab Sungenis]

95. Pregnancy is a thorny issue.

And is way too complex to be settled on an internet message board.

For example, there is the matter of abortion. A woman does not need to get consent of a fetus' father to abort, but that also negates the father's rights. Of course, that can't be settled until and unless an artificial womb or fetal transplants can be perfected since it's a woman's body that is on the line. But that issue is bound to be brought up time and again.

Then there's a matter of rape. I personally believe that a rapist should lose any and all parental rights when a child is conceived in rape. No visitation, no custody, and child support should be collected through legal restitution. The problem is that I feel that should be the case regardless of gender. If a woman rapes a man (statutory or otherwise), conceives a child, and carries it to term, the man should not be responsible for that child's upbringing or expenses. Unless he is given custody after it is taken from the mother.

The problem with misandrists is that they do not want equality under the law. They want preferential treatment. I'm sorry, but I draw the line after equality.

[geek tragedy]

152. Oh dear, the old "I favor equal rights not special rights" card combined with

anti-choice rhetoric.

Bill O'Reilly would approve.

[moriah]

164. When speaking of scientific advances, I'd also like to see a highly effective reversible male BC.

I think it would sell *much* better than Viagra. I'm pretty ardently pro-choice, but I also long for the days of transplants and other ways to make the abortion issue disappear. Sadly, the issue isn't really being researched.

However, as a community, I think we can all agree that we've all been affected by pregnancy at one time or another -- we were born. We libs already consider it part of society's duty to pay for poor children's health care. This is making sure that those children get health care in the womb, too.

[Pab Sungenis]

165. Precisely.

It's a societal benefit.

[kestrel91316]

171. Why is it so hard for some people to comprehend that NO ONE has the right to compel a woman to

bear a child against her wishes??

Telling you that you also do not have that right is not depriving you of any of your own rights. You also do not have the right to own slaves. Deal with it.

You really don't seem well suited to DU with your overt misogyny.

[Pab Sungenis]

172. Wow. A trifecta.

Deflection, distortion, AND a straw man all in one handy little package.

Re-read what I posted. Right now the woman's rights have to trump men's rights in this issue specifically because it is the woman carrying the embryo.

Yet in an ideal world the father would have to consent to terminate. Why? Because his right to reproductive choice is violated by termination without his consent.

As it is the father has no rights in regard to childbirth. Yet there is no solution because you cannot protect his rights without violating the rights of the woman. Stalemate. When you have a stalemate like that you defer to the more aggrieved party and that would be the woman.

[BainsBane]

224. I read what you posted

and it's complete bullshit and paranoia. You've been reading too much MRA propaganda. That's extreme right wing stuff, and here you repeat it.

[marshall]

76. What about circumcisions?

Are they to be covered?

[Pab Sungenis]

101. If I had my way

they would be banned, along with all non-consensual genital mutilation.

[Vashta Nerada]

120. +1

[ecstatic]

98. That type of thing doesn't cross my mind, actually. nt

[Iggo]

124. Boys vs Girls is the stupidest thing on this site.

[Dash87]

136. Ewww Cooties!

[nomorenomore08]

270. +1

[moriah]

163. I'm perfectly happy to be paying for Viagra. Sex isn't bad.

I do think we need to get generic alternatives on the market, though, because it's pretty pricey.

[Zorra]

168. I'm not young, but totally don't mind kicking in a few bucks for someone's fun.

Enjoy!

[gollygee]

169. I've always paid for Viagra and prostate exams when I've paid for my insurance

Because they've always been covered. And I've had to pay higher premiums because women alone have been believed to be responsible for the creation of the next generation.

[Comrade Grumpy]

170. Pab's larger point is being made evident throughout this thread.

The sneering, mocking defensiveness of the small group of uber-PC posters is once again on display.

As for the more immediate question of health care costs: We need full coverage national health care.

[ScreamingMeemie]

173. No. Am I upset that this kind of blech is posted on DU, a Democratic website?

A little bit.

[Pab Sungenis]

174. Yet you have no problem with posts mocking men

about insurance rates going up for them?

[ScreamingMeemie]

175. If this is in regards to the "Men, are you upset..." post, I don't find it

to be a mockery. Sorry.

[Pab Sungenis]

176. It belittles men

And speaks to them in a condescending manner. Is that okay with you?

[ScreamingMeemie]

177. Did I post in the thread?

I am sorry, but no, you are not getting support from me on this mission to what? Get yourself banned? We are getting enough crap from the RW on ACA without entitled men adding to it.

On edit, the people who could afford health insurance were paying for your care for years.

Thank you.

[Pab Sungenis]

178. More projection.

The ACA is not perfect but it's better than before. I support it.

I support premium equity.

I DON'T support the "men bad" brigade on DU getting away with denigration, mockery, and condescension.

So let me get this straight: it's okay if a woman is denigrating to a man but not the other way around? Both are wrong.

[ScreamingMeemie]

179. Not from here.

"Bad men brigade????"

Where again, did I post in that thread, denigrating men?

Projection indeed.

[Pab Sungenis]

180. You came here to blast me

But didn't speak out against that thread.

What does that tell you?

[ScreamingMeemie]

181. Blast you?

Where? I merely posted my thoughts on this thread. It's blech and shameful for a Democratic sites.

[Pab Sungenis]

184. But the thread mocking and denigrating men

ISN'T blech for a Democratic site?

[ScreamingMeemie]

185. The posts it responded to were certainly blech for a Democratic site, for sure.

Shame that thread had to be posted in response to that at all. It should happen on a Democratic site, where men should view women as their equals. Pity DU isn't like that.

If I "blast you," you'll know about it. Ask my son. He busted his school tablet yesterday. Now that was a "blasting."

[CreekDog]

191. no, it's not mocking men, it's mocking bigoted men

or is that one in the same to you?

i'm a man and that thread doesn't offend me one bit because i know it's not about me.

[CreekDog]

219. Pab was complaining about my thread, not yours

and actually I'm a male who was trying to explain the changes in pricing and how under the old/current system the pricing favored young men over young women.

even though i tried to explain it rationally and clearly, and most people understood the entirety of the problem.

he seems to think it's not only sexist that I wrote that, Pab also is calling me a woman for saying that.

that's how he rolls I guess.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023938561

Young Men, are you upset that you'll no longer be able to get health insurance cheaper than women?

for example, there's a low coverage policy with pretty gaping holes that costs just $63/month for men and $93/month for women.

one of the reasons that plan was cheaper was because you are male.

how do you feel now that you'll have to pay the same amount as women for health coverage?

[ScreamingMeemie]

221. Unbelievable...

[CreekDog]

234. But I am male and I wrote that thread you are complaining about --and it didn't denigrate

it explained. the title sure got attention, but i knew that rising rates did upset many men and in and of themselves, i could understand that they'd upset men.

which is why i wanted to explain an aspect of pricing that has been unfair to women for years, and deplorable coverage which has been unfair to all for years.

i provided context which while not making a rate increase any more affordable or any more justified, it helps them understand that if the rates continued as they are, men would pay less than women --that's obviously unfair.

that's what i was explaining. the opposite of sexism, the opposite of misogyny the opposite of misandry.

but you just read the title line. your towing of the MRA line has deluded you so badly that you posted several times that I am a woman. wake up.

[CreekDog]

198. I wrote that thread. I'm a man and that thread wasn't to belittle men

It was to talk about price hikes for insurance policies for men, but put those increases adjacent to the reality that women were charged more for the same insurance, and despite being charged more, that insurance actually excluded a key piece of women's health care, beyond its exclusions for men.

The take home message was, the prices for men are going up because the coverage was totally inadequate and a joke really and also to equalize the prices for men and women, who should pay the same.

And almost all in the thread, save two men, and one clueless troll who i recommend not taking seriously, posted in support of women and men paying the same for health care, period.

Far from encouraging misandry, misogyny or anything else, it encouraged factual understanding of a real ACA issue and encouraged support of non-discriminatory ways of fixing it.

As for you, you simply made a caricature of my post and have practically accused me of saying what I never said nor intended.

[Deep13]

228. So you agree with insurance discrimination based on sex.

Do you think women have babies just for themselves? Seems to me it's for the future of humanity.

[Pab Sungenis]

230. On the contrary.

I've said in this thread and others that premium parity is a good thing.

It's the denigration of men I have a problem with.

[CreekDog]

235. well i was arguing for premium parity in the thread you are so offended by

it's so obvious you didn't read that OP, you read the title. try harder next time.

[Deep13]

237. I've seen no evidence of that. nt

[Pab Sungenis]

248. Then you haven't looked.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=3944019
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=3941550
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=3942644
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=3942471

[Deep13]

269. These are all links to your posts.

No, I don't see any hatred toward men in them. Objecting to misogyny, including that which has been naturalized by our culture is not misandry. Neither is mocking those who fail to see their privileged position.

[Pab Sungenis]

271. You wanted evidence of my backing premium equity

and that is what I gave you.

[CreekDog]

190. actually most women here have posted that they are happy to pay for insurance that treats men

and while most men here seem to support the same thing for women, a strong minority of men are balking at paying the same price for the same coverage as women.

there isn't that same number among women here who don't want to cover men's health care. at most, you've seen some examples of women retorting that if you don't want to pay to be part of an insurance pool that covers women's issues, why should they pay for one that pays for men's issues --but this is offered in that context.


and your constant posting about men being victimized by women on DU, that's nonsense and it was nonsense when you first posted it, now that you post it regularly, it's beyond old.

[BainsBane]

225. The only example he can point to of women hating men

is you, and you're not a woman, but he refuses to acknowledge that because he's so wedded to his "misandry" delusion.

[CreekDog]

229. yeah, that's kind of a fail right there

[Deep13]

227. No! Bad troll! No biscuit for you!

[La Lioness Priyanka]

236. no and no. also misandry is not a real thing, just like hatred of straight people

is not a real thing.

[Deep13]

238. ...or "reverse discrimination" against whites or...

...religious discrimination against Christians. No longer as privileged as one used to be =/= discrimination.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

239. exactly

and

[NutmegYankee]

243. In the US you mean.

In the world as a whole, they do exist.

[Deep13]

267. Yes, in majority Muslim countries and other places where...

...Christians are in the minority, there is discrimination in some contexts. As a white man who most would guess to be a Christian, I will say that I myself have not experienced any of it despite having lived in Beirut and Irbid, Jordan, for six weeks each, including during Ramadan.

[Warpy]

240. Uh, we always have

but the policies refused to pay for our own health care.

That was one of the worst indignities. Insurance needs to pay for both.

But I guess you'd rather complain that women want too much.

[DonCoquixote]

244. so, in this op

We have Pab Sungenis and Seabeyond fighting.
Look, I respect both of you, because both of you have a lot to say, stuff that needs to be said, so take this for what it is worth.

If you listen, you will hear rush limbaugh laughing, because any time we turn our guns on each other, we make ourselves easy prey. I am not trying to debate what people feel or think, but every time we fight, we need to realize that we are opening a door, and the one virture the GOP enemy has is that it does not ever, ever, stop trying to look for a way to gain ground.

And yes, we may want single payer, but right now, the best way to ensure we do not get that is to let the ACA crumble, as the media will keep chanting "the gop won!"

[seabeyond]

246. lol. it is always good to see my name front and fore center, time and again. but, i think if you

take note, i posted less on this OP than too many other people for it to be all about me. but, ok.

maybe not. i perused a bit.... meh. close to others. whatever. like you too. lol

[Sheldon Cooper]

247. Actually, Pab is fighting with lots of people, not just seabeyond.

And to be honest, I don't care if Limbo is laughing. When people post right wing and sexist bullshit here, I think it needs to be refuted. Vigorously. Just because people are posting here is doesn't automatically make them one of 'us', and it doesn't give them free reign to run rampant and the rest of us are expected to sit back and keep quiet in the name of solidarity.

I think you are reaching out with the right spirit, but I don't think your request is reasonable.

[Pab Sungenis]

249. I'm not fighting against the ACA.

As much as I don't like it, it's a step, and I want to see it work so we can improve upon it.

What I'm arguing against is the belittling of men that has become common on DU and the attitudes behind it.

[CreekDog]

259. but the only example you cite is my thread, and I'm a man and I didn't belittle

but you didn't read my thread, you only read the title of my OP and wrote a sexist OP of your own.

obviously the reason you keep referring to me as a female is that that false premise was all you had to back up your argument.

no wonder when i asked you offline you denied referring to me as a female when you've done it several times in this thread.