Dear DU men, this poll is for you

[cali]

Last edited Fri Nov 1, 2013, 11:26 AM - Edit history (1)

and it's not meant as a dis of any kind.

How important is the issue of a woman's right to choose to you?


Edited to make it absolutely clear that this is in reference to a woman's right to choose whether to have an abortion or not.

44 votes, 0 passes | Time left: Unlimited
	Very important. It's an essential right
	40 (91%)
	It's important but not vital. there are issues more pressing
	2 (5%)
	It's more of an issue for women
	1 (2%)
	It's not high up in the list of critical issues facing this country
	1 (2%)
	Not important at all
	0 (0%)
	0 DU members did not wish to select any of the options provided.
Show usernames Disclaimer: This is an Internet poll

[seabeyond]

1. interesting. i can see the respect in a simple answer. not a "right" answer. you worded

it in a manner to allow an honesty without repercussions, lol. i hope.

[cali]

5. I almost added another option

something along the lines of "I'm uncomfortable discussing it".

[seabeyond]

7. i think it can be done repsectfully toward everyone. would make for interesting. i am also

an optimist, lol. glass overflowing.

[jeff47]

2. *poke*

(Helping keep this OP near the top of the list)

[B Calm]

3. I feel it's not a right for men to decide on a woman's right of choice!

[cali]

4. Can you explain that in more detail?

Do you feel the same way about LGBT issues? Or racism? I don't want to put words in your mouth but it seems like you're saying that it's not an issue that men should be actively involved in.

[B Calm]

6. I voted Very important. It's an essential right

I don't like it when I see old men making laws against women.

[cali]

9. ah, I see what you were saying now.

thanks for the clarification.

[lumberjack_jeff]

8. It's important for everyone. It is time for a male oral contraceptive. n/t

[cali]

11. wouldn't that be great.

you got me curious. 30 years ago I would have said it's close. I found a recent article:


Why Is There No Male Birth Control Pill?

Bet you didn't have this marked on your calendar: today is World Vasectomy Day, a holiday celebrated not with parades or fireworks, but with the delicate snip of two tiny tubes. But is such a largely permanent step really our only male birth control option? Where's the male version of the pill?

Surprisingly enough, research on oral contraceptives for both men and women kicked off more than a half century ago. The female variant was solved first, and has become a pillar of modern reproductive health; according to the CDC, nearly 82 percent of U.S. women surveyed between 2006 and 2010 used the pill, more than any other method by a long shot.

Meanwhile, a non-surgical, non-barrier form of male birth control eludes us, thanks to societal norms, squeamish pharmaceutical companies, and some confounding scientific challenges.

<snip>

http://gizmodo.com/where-is-the-male-birth-control-pill-1447917796

[lumberjack_jeff]

15. The barrier appears to be more business and regulatory than science.

Unfortunately, unlike birth control for women, the ACA doesn't make male contraception free, so a business that developed it could only sell it to the extent that guys will buy it.

[bettyellen]

72. you mean - not free like all the birth control I payed on my own for thirty years?

All the while paying much higher premiums than men my age?
To be free, it has to exists. It doesn't exist, because there is not a high enough demand. Pregnancy is seen as a "women's problem". Which sucks.

[Chan790]

30. There's a project of the Parsemus foundation...

called Vasagel that just moved into testing in baboons, the last testing protocol for male contraceptives before human testing. As there is no corporate interest in bringing Vasagel to market, they're entirely funding the testing using crowdsourcing. If this round of testing and the subsequent round of human testing go well and FDA approval occurs, we're possibly within 3-7 years of approval.

It's not a pill...it's an injection into the vas deferens and a second injection at time of reversal to flush out the RISUG polymer used to block sperm introduction into semen. It's effectively a reversible non-hormonal chemical vasectomy carried out as an outpatient procedure in ~10minutes with no surgery.

http://www.parsemusfoundation.org/vasalgel-home/

[The Straight Story]

10. Which choice? Just the ones involving abortion or other personal choices?

Cause I think most people are anti-choice on many things (even here). If it is just about aborting a fetus than I am sure that particular choice most will agree with. If it is about smoking, owning something others don't want to own, what you eat, how much, where, etc - well in that case I would say the issue of choice is one not supported (and in fact, the opposite is true).

I support choice. Period.

[cali]

12. I think it's clear that this poll is about abortion.

No one else seems confused about that. actually, I don't think you are confused. I think you've got a hobby horse to ride and you're determined to do so.

funnily, I think your post says quite a bit.

[The Straight Story]

16. Your post says "How important is the issue of choice to you?"

It is a very important one to me. I am pro-choice. The question we have here is - How many people are really pro-choice and how many are anti-choice as far as the principle is concerned? If you are just pro-choice on one thing you are not pro-choice, you are pro-X (ie, pro-abortion rights is not pro-choice, it is selective when you only want to apply it to one thing).

[cali]

18. Choice is the term used by people who are pro-choice re abortion

this isn't about the principle and I think your pro-choice on everything is rather simplistic. Are you pro-choice about, for instance, motorcycle helmets?

You're playing word games.

[The Straight Story]

21. As far as helmets, their head, their choice. Or this about cost in dollars? If so....

We need to do a cost analysis of sex, abortions, etc and maybe outlaw sex without birth control can cost us money. Many abortions and pregnancies are not planned and could be avoided by mandating all people who choose to have sex have to have a 'helmet' on or be on a pill, etc.

So is it all about money, or choice now?

[The2ndWheel]

22. How can a man have an opinion on something they should have no business

having an opinion on? If it's of no business of a man what a woman does regarding her pregnancy, which is what has been said over and over again, why is the question involving a man's opinion on abortion being asked?

[cali]

27. So it's also none of your business to have an opinion on LGBT rights or

on racism if you're white? Seems like a logical extension to your pov regarding abortion.

The question is being asked because I think it's an important issue for everyone, not just women and because I was genuinely curious what DU men have to say about how important they think it is.

Furthermore, I have never said that it's none of a man's business. Clearly women need all the support they can get to retain this right.

Yes, some people say it's none of a man's business. That's hardly true for many others.

[The2ndWheel]

44. If you're white and against racism

that doesn't really win you any points anywhere. It's not like white people can tell someone else of another color what to do in regards to the racism they face. White people can work with other people to end racism, but that's about as far as their opinion on it can go. If you're white and pro-racism, then nobody wants to hear your opinion anyway. Same with LGBT rights.

So if you're a man, your opinion on abortion doesn't really matter. If you're pro-choice, great. Anti-choice, nobody wants to listen to whatever comes out of your mouth, as it's a woman's right to choose. Men can vote for or endorse pro-choice people for public office, and that's about it.

[cali]

45. wow. what nonsense.

first of all, to even "think" in terms of "winning points" when it comes to civil rights or constitutional rights, is disturbing as hell.

Yes, white people can work to end racism. that's fucking vital currently as well as historically. think de Blasio and racial profiling.

yes, the opinion of men on abortion matters HUGELY. It's just insane to pretend it doesn't. Lots of people listen to anti-choice men.

Your claims are bullshit of the worst kind. Men can and have done far more than vote for or endorse pro-choice candidates.

they can and have protected women who face anti-choice gauntlets at clinics. they can and have lobbied their reps. they can and have marched side by side with women- etc, etc, etc.

fuck.

[The2ndWheel]

57. It's just a turn of phrase

Winning points as in it doesn't make you some great and special individual to be white and against racism. Or heterosexual and for LGBT rights. Or a man and pro-choice. It's just the right and decent thing to do in regards to another human being who just wants to live their life.

Alright, I didn't name every possible way men who are pro-choice can help. Sorry. I don't think that changes anything though. If you're a pro-choice male, however it is you help, great. If you're an anti-choice male, people may listen, but it's going to be people who are anti-choice.

The opinion on the choice part may mean something, but the opinion on the actual abortion part doesn't, as it's a woman's right to choose what she does with her body. Men can only be supportive of that right of choice, and can vote, endorse, protect, lobby, whatever. There probably aren't too many people on this site that would be against the choice.

[LanternWaste]

67. Your underlying premise in seems to be that if one is white and anti-racist, it's merely to be a "gr

"doesn't make you some great and special individual to be white and against racism..."


Your underlying premise in seems to be that if one is white and anti-racist, it's merely to be a "great and special individual" rather than simply living by the courage of one's convictions, regardless of payout or consequence.

[The2ndWheel]

70. If that's what you're getting from me, I guess I have to apologize

I said it doesn't make you some great and special individual to be white and against racism. Being white and anti-racist just makes you a white person against racism.

[LanternWaste]

66. Maybe one's first failure is believing that it's about points and winning.

"that doesn't really win you any points anywhere. ..."


Maybe one's first (or at least, most dramatic) failure in this context is believing that it's about points and winning rather than simply living by the courage of one's own convictions...

[The2ndWheel]

71. Again, I'm saying being white and anti-racist doesn't get you anything

I'm saying it's not about points or winning. You don't get anything for being white and anti-racist. Outside of maybe some mutual respect from another human being.

[ScreamingMeemie]

36. Anyone reading it outside of a woman's

right to choose is being deliberately obtuse.

[cali]

46. quite a bit of that going on in this thread.

I'll say it again: quite a few comments belie the poll results.

[lumberjack_jeff]

17. Respectfully, I don't think you can assert that.

I think choice is important in a wide range of things, including abortion, and that is the premise of my vote.

[cali]

19. I'm not clear on what you think I'm asserting.

Choice is terminology used by people regarding abortion as a right.

choice may be important in a wide range of issues, but how many are regarding a constitutionally guaranteed right? Yes, that right can and may be taken away. How many other rights are threatened in a like manner?

[The2ndWheel]

13. Just choice in general, for whoever, about whatever, or something specific?

[closeupready]

14. Not a well-formed question, so I can't answer.

[cali]

20. How is it not well formed? what is the problem with the question and options

provided?

Why can't you just answer in your own words?

It's not hard to see what I'm asking even if you don't like the answers.

Speaking of choice, it seems you CHOSE not to answer. You say you COULDN'T answer.

[closeupready]

24. Who on Earth opposes "choice" as a concept? Silliness.

If you wanted your poll to be about whether the men on DU support a woman's right to choose abortion without restrictions, then you should have asked that.

[cali]

29. I've clarified it. Not that it wasn't obvious to begin with.

It was. The option that it's an issue for women is a big honking clue.

Interesting how many people are playing little word games. Very interesting.

Lots of hostility in evidence.

[11 Bravo]

42. Your meaning was crystal clear in the OP. Some are pretending not to understand ...

merely to fuck with you.
(And I say that as one who has gone toe-to-toe with you on numerous occasions.)

[B Calm]

68. +1 It's pretty obvious!

[seveneyes]

23. Choice is the ONLY Choice

The empty headed creeps that harass women outside of clinics should consider themselves fortunate that decent people have not retaliated against them. They are outnumbered and the less intelligent among normal humans. Their grace period will end if they push too hard.

[PRETZEL]

25. It's very important

no government should be allowed to legislate what is and isn't morally correct for anyone.

[spanone]

26. it's primary. if they can take that right, they can take any.

[Bluenorthwest]

28. You left out the 'Spent my youth at clinic defenses and still have a round blue sign' option.

So I just picked 'very important'.

[cali]

31. thank you.

[Not Me]

32. I am a gay man, so I kinda don't have a dog in this fight

but I stand firm with all women on this. And one of the things that really pisses me off, is that it's always old white men that are meddling.

[cali]

39. I'm a straight woman and I fought hard for LGBT rights in my state

I was involved early on with the fight for marriage here and before that with the right of LGBT couples to adopt and to not be discriminated against.

I really don't think "I don't have a dog in this fight" cuts it.

[Not Me]

50. Sorry, did not mean to offend

What I meant to convey was that I am probably the most unlikely person to ever personally need this right...but I have fought hard, donated large, and voted consistently to help ensure it is not weakened.

[cali]

55. OK, so you DO have a dog in this fight

personal need or the lack thereof is not the same thing as not having a "dog in the fight"

thanks.

[tularetom]

33. It's important to me because it's important to the women in my life

All of whom, except my great-granddaughter who starts school next year, have participated in choosing the number of children they wanted.

[Pab Sungenis]

34. K&V

:kick:

[L0oniX]

35. Missing poll question: Is it a womans right to breath air?

[DireStrike]

37. Not sure how to vote.

I think social issues are generally a distraction from economic issues. (Though choice is partly an economic issue as well.) BUT... I can't think of an organization or movement that would support my goals without also supporting choice. I think there are more important things than choice, but I see no reason why it can't be pursued at the same time as any other goal. Honestly it's just a set of rules and a (governmentally speaking) very minimal amount of funding for women's health.

[cali]

41. Yes, it's a HUGE economic issue.

and it's an issue of life and death.

Yes, life and death.

Not many things much more important than that imo.

[Deep13]

53. Social issues are economic issues. nt

[Marr]

60. That seems a bit disingenuous to me.

Of course, most social issues have some economic impact, but they're used in politics specifically to avoid discussing economic policy, and to grant economically conservative politicians some sort of liberal bona fides.

[Deep13]

73. I was discussing the real effect and not what kind of political football it is.

For instance, women simply need to be in control of their reproductive systems in order to delay families and control their size if we don't want children grow up in poverty and then to inherit that poverty. Civil rights for so-called racial minorities (races are a social construct) exist so they do not have to live in poverty. (MLK was attending the Atlanta trash collector's strike when he was shot). Those are just two examples.

[Glassunion]

38. I will have to ask my wife how I feel before I can vote.

I'll get back to you and let you know what she tells me is my opinion.

[Comrade Grumpy]

40. I think it's the rare liberal/progressive who has a problem with abortion rights.

Maybe some Catholics.

I guess second-wave feminism is not controversial, nor should it be.

[cali]

43. I think quite a few of the comments in the thread belie the poll results

which is pretty much what I thought would happen.

[whttevrr]

47. I almost never respond to polls...

But what has been happening to women in this country has been infuriating for years. I've never really spent much time in red states. I've gone from east to west. And never did I ever think there would be a time when women would have to re-fight for Roe vs. Wade. I never understood why the generation before me did not vote for the E.R.A....

But this?

This is fucking insane. This is about screwing with poor people. This is about negating the choices of women. This really pisses me off. The rich will never have to worry about this decision. This is really about economic freedom and the right to choose how your life is lived.

I just wish more women would run for office...

[ScreamingMeemie]

48. I wish running for office depended more

upon what we stood for than the size of our wallets.

[whttevrr]

49. Touche'

It's tough for anyone, even tougher for those who are not monied, and even tougher for women. My hope is that in looking at the abyss that is the conservative right ideology, America as a whole will recoil and start the swing of the pendulum back to where we should be...

http://whateverworks4you.blogspot.com/2011/12/swing-of-pendulum.html

[Recursion]

51. Just from a selfish standpoint: if they can invade a woman's bodily autonomy they can invade mine

There are moral and macroeconomic arguments for a woman's right to choose as well, which I can make, but I find that arguing from enlightened self-interest is always best.

[Sheldon Cooper]

61. You have a valid point, however, if you are a man, the likelihood of them invading

your bodily autonomy is nil. The assholes who are implementing these laws are overwhelmingly men, and there is no way they are going to enact something that messes with their autonomy. It's just not going to happen. So while you have a point, it's really pretty moot.

[rrneck]

52. A woman's right to choose is crucial for a healthy society. nt

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

54. I will not vote for anyone who opposes abortion rights.

No matter how it's dressed up in "not as bad" clothing.

[Deep13]

56. That was easy. nt

[TheKentuckian]

58. Essential, people should have sovereignty over their own bodies, that is the basis on which I

support abortion and as such I agree with some you have butted heads with in this thread that the context goes beyond abortion and is not isolated to women but cannot fall to notice that many supposedly pro - choice folks are vehemently against the concept of personal sovereignty once this piece of it is left behind and many of those most demanding of solidarity, among the least likely to offer it when an individual's choices are not their own.

Even more foolish and hypocritically, we have folks that ardently favor Rowe but don't even believe in personal privacy, which means they don't even understand the decision at all.

[litlbilly]

59. Just look at my quote. A bird cannot fly with wings of different size

Populations explode in countries where woman are not equal and free. It's that simple. We will not survive if woman are not equal.

[AtheistCrusader]

62. Standing up for women's rights establishes a precedent that extends to myself.

It's the right thing to do. And not just for the women in my life that I care about, it's for my future as well as that of my children.

If I stand by while one group's rights are fucked around with or denied, I open the possibility that my rights will someday be disregarded as well.

All signs point to: I MUST be involved, I MUST do something.

[rurallib]

63. I have daughters.

I want them to have every right and privilege I have.
Plus I want them to have access to any medical procedure necessary in the US.

[Broken_Hero]

64. Very important

The right to choose is a fundamental right for women, having that right is essential and if you cannot even choose what to do with your own fucking body, then Houston, we got lots of troubles....

[Tom Rinaldo]

65. Her body, her choice, an essential right n/t

[trumad]

69. Choose?

What--flavor of Ice Cream? Shoe color? Makeup?

Uhhh---just kidding. Those up above who seem to be confused on what choice you speak of are simply playing games and showing their true colors.

[LittleBlue]

74. It is a human right to me

In the same category as the right to free speech. An essential right of free people.

[yurbud]

75. if we don't fix our political and economic problems, a lot more women will need them.

[whttevrr]

76. Edit was unnecessary...

The original was quite clear.

Some people are just happier being assholes.