General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsI Did Not Cut My Baby's Umbilical Cord for Six Days So We Could Have a Natural "Lotus Birth" Just
Like Chimpanzees.
(Fetishizing pregnancy and birth has become a cottage industry.)
During my lotus birth, a lovely six-day period of bonding and closeness was established with my baby, and we washed and wrapped the placenta everyday to keep it clean and placed it in a waterproof pouch.
As the placenta did not release until five hours after the birth, this provided for a special bonding period in a close embrace, without separation. During this vital period of bonding between us, I felt strongly that it was important that no one else take the baby away. Having the placenta still attached to the cord helped to ensure this.
Shortly after the birth, the cord dried quickly into the texture of an electric cable. During the nights we slept with the baby on the bed and the placenta was placed next to the bed. Transporting the placenta with baby around the house was made convenient by using a stretchy wrap, which had a pocket in the front to hold the placenta.
After six days of healing and bonding, we woke up one morning to find our baby Ulysses had gripped hold of the cord and detached it by himself, leaving a neat and healthy-looking belly button. For the six days the placenta was still attached, he was very peaceful and slept extremely well. Due to the damp environment where we lived and because we also chose to wrap plastic around the cloth, the placenta did not dry out as well as it should have and did leave a musty smell for the last few days. However, as the cord had already sealed off and we kept the rooms well aired, I didnt feel this posed any threat to Ulysses.
<snip>
http://www.xojane.com/healthy/how-to-lotus-birth
the entire piece is so ridiculous that it out parodies any parody.
gollygee
(22,336 posts)But I think it's gross. There's a kind of competition in natural pregnancy/birth, like "I delay cord clamping" from one person elicits "I'm going to not clamp at all and do a lotus birth." I'm all for natural birth but not when it becomes a competitive sport.
Sheldon Cooper
(3,724 posts)I think people who do shit like this are attention seeking and pathetic, to be honest. They are trying to compete for most natural birth, like we're still wild animals swinging from trees or something.
delta17
(283 posts)This comes across and very smug and self-congratulating. Also, she has no evidence to support any of this besides "nature." This almost seems like people who try to find the most obscure music to try to be edgy and cool.
Barack_America
(28,876 posts)The comfort of a bed? Weak.
We're going to build a rice paddy out back for our next one. He'll be born there, in the squatting position. His afterbirth will fertilize our rice crops, which will be his first solid food.
He'll be breast fed through high school, then we'll switch to pumping once he goes to college.
Our bond will be incredible.
jberryhill
(62,444 posts)Squinch
(50,918 posts)median of I95 right at that danger spot where the trucks tend to lose control.
During a snowstorm.
Wearing a hair shirt.
While a drill sergeant makes me do push-ups.
So there!
Demo_Chris
(6,234 posts)As a loving natural father should, I will be waiting on a lower limb to catch him should the cord break. Obviously no pain meds will be allowed, so woman will chew the branches and shriek her natural primal joy to the earth mother godess.
Prism
(5,815 posts)But "Ulysses" totally slayed me at the end.
I mean, of course he is.
The Velveteen Ocelot
(115,609 posts)like a wild animal.
laundry_queen
(8,646 posts)I didn't read the article, but yeah, some do eat it. There are even sites with placenta recipes.
I used to have a lot of friends that were into this really natural birth stuff - I was, and am, too. I'm all for delayed clamping, but I don't think I'd go so far as a lotus birth. To each their own though. I don't know why anyone cares, really.
1000words
(7,051 posts)This isn't harming anyone.
cali
(114,904 posts)dangerously erroneous "information". Her blog on mothering is quite something and the advice she's dishing is dangerous.
and criticizing her isn't harming her.
cali
(114,904 posts)this fetishizing of pregnancy and birth. also, this woman could potentially influence others to do some dangerous things. Her blog hands out some alarming advice.
gollygee
(22,336 posts)I don't understand why people continue moving birth and making it more and more natural. "Natural" does not necessarily always mean "better." I like home birth but I don't understand choosing on purpose to have an unassisted birth. Of course that might be because I hemorrhaged after one of my births.
Pab Sungenis
(9,612 posts)From the very beginnings of society, women have had help when giving birth. Traditionally a midwife, in more modern times a doctor or hospital setting.
gollygee
(22,336 posts)To a chimpanzee at first, and then she talks about how some animals gnaw through the cords. So natural in the animal word, not human world.
Pab Sungenis
(9,612 posts)Lots of things are natural in the animal world that aren't natural in our human world. Chimpanzee birth is just one example.
Chimpanzees also throw their shit around. Only Republicans do that in the human world.
frazzled
(18,402 posts)So how far does this go? Does she take dumps on the ground to be more like an animal (or encourage her baby to do so)? Does she kill or eat prey with her own hands/claws/whatever and eat it raw (or will she do so for her baby)?
I mean, there are many things animals do or don't do that we don't want to emulate. (You know, like when your dog licks its own butt when company is over.) Why can't we celebrate the beauty and genius of being human, including all the amazing scientific and cultural advances our unique brains have allowed us to develop over the years?
I don't want to be an animal animal. I'm a person animal.
Pab Sungenis
(9,612 posts)and that is the reason she didn't tear the cord off with her teeth.
That blows the whole "back to nature" thing out of the park. Call it what you will -- healthy, responsible, ethical -- being a vegan is not "natural" for human beings! We evolved to be omnivores.
What she is... well... weird.
jberryhill
(62,444 posts)...then you wouldn't have company over, because you'd have no need of friends or any reason to leave the house, if you think about it.
Chan790
(20,176 posts)To quote my mother during the birth of my youngest brother, Crash:
Crash ended up as a C-section due to a severe hemorrhage and a wrapped cord after hours of labor. To this day, he's got a funny shaped head.
laundry_queen
(8,646 posts)and I could go on and on about how this 'community' made me feel like a giant failure because I had extremely painful births and several C-sections.
And, the alarming advice - I haven't read her blog but I'm betting I've read it all...unassisted birth, outdoor birth...blahblahblah. If people are going to take all their birthing decisions from a blog so be it. I still maintain that it's a woman's choice even as she's giving birth - my pro choice stance doesn't end when labor starts. It's HER body and she can decide how she wants to go through labor. That's in my VVVHO (as someone who had choices taken away and felt like a fetus vessel while in labor). I just hope people who do it are going into it in an informed manner. I know plenty who did NOT. I won't get into those stories here either, but most people who are genuine about natural birth wouldn't recommend uninformed choices but if someone wants to, it's their choice.
cali
(114,904 posts)from advice to let babies go out in the sun without sunblock to, well, to this:
Accidents Inability to speak up for the self. Rebellion against authority. Belief in violence.
Aches Longing for love/to be held.
Allergies Denying own power.
Anemia Lack of joy. Fear of life. Feeling not good enough.
Adenoids Family friction. Arguments. Child feeling unwelcome or in the way.
Anxiety Not trusting the flow and process of life.
Asthma Smother love. inability to breathe for oneself. Suppressed crying.
Baby asthma Fear of life. Not wanting to be here.
Bedwetting Fear of parent, often the father.
Childhood diseases Childish behaviour in the adults around them.
Colds Too much going on at once. Mental confusion.
Colic Mental irritation. Impatience. Annoyance in the surroundings.
Pink eye Anger and frustration. Not wanting to see.
Eye problems Not wanting to see what is going on in the family.
Earache Anger. Not wanting to hear. Too much turmoil. Parents arguing.
Eczema Breath-taking antagoism. Mental eruptions.
Fevers Anger. Burning-up.
Overweight Represents protection. Oversensitivity.
Hay fever Emotional congestion. Guilt. A belief in persecution. A fear of the calendar.
Headaches Invalidating the self. Self-criticism. Fear.
Infection Irritation. Anger. Annoyance.
Inflammation Fear. Seeing red. Inflamed thinking.
Influenza (Flu) Response to mass negativity and beliefs. Fear
Jaundice Internal and external prejudice. Unbalanced reason.
Motion sickness Fear of not being in control.
Nail bitting Frustration. Eating away at the self. Spite of a parent.
Nose bleeds A need for recognition. Feeling unwanted and unrecognised. Crying for love.
Polio Paralysing jealousy, a desire to stop someone
Stuttering Insecurity. Lack of self-expression. Not being allowed to cry.
laundry_queen
(8,646 posts)Not a fan of that kind of stuff, and don't believe in it (my 'painful births' were attributed to some 'unresolved fear' I had about becoming a parent or some shit ) but most people I know like this aren't totally stupid and do take their kids to the doctor if need be. Of course, I live in Canada where parents are more likely to take their kids in - I found that a lot of my American friends at the time resorted to 'natural remedies' because they didn't have money to be taking their 5 kids in to the doctor unless it was serious. MOST parents aren't going to follow this blog to the letter. They'll try the natural stuff first and then take their kids in. Of course, anyone who follows this like gospel and makes stupid decisions because of it were probably likely to make idiotic decisions regardless.
Plus, I was talking about birth. Once the baby is out, there is a certain element of having to protect the child's interest and in that case, if a child is not receiving proper medical attention the courts can step in.
KamaAina
(78,249 posts)Pab Sungenis
(9,612 posts)although her laundry list of causes of crap is completely batshit insane.
I have thought for a while part of our problem with kids and allergies/sensitivities is that we're practically wrapping our kids in antimicrobial bubbles from birth. Some parents are so concerned about "protecting" kids from some of the hardships we had to deal with like scraped knees and sprained ankles that we went through that their bodies don't develop the resistances we used to.
But saying that jaundice is caused by prejudice and Polio by jealousy? Well, that's just batshit.
arcane1
(38,613 posts)Please tell me I didn't just read that!
Though sadly, I know people who think crazy shit like that. And yes, some of them are parents. The mind boggles.
Turbineguy
(37,295 posts)He was in fashion when I was born. I ended up disfigured for life because of two (later a third) bowel resection because I was allergic to cow's milk.
That's right. No career modeling Speedo's for me!
MattBaggins
(7,897 posts)WilliamPitt
(58,179 posts)The doctor told me that actually exists, and is consumed, while we were in the delivery room waiting for Lola to be born.
I almost jumped out the window.
fadedrose
(10,044 posts)I saw our dog eat it..
WilliamPitt
(58,179 posts)Merely commenting on its existence.
NoOneMan
(4,795 posts)That was odd
fadedrose
(10,044 posts)till I got to:
the entire piece is so ridiculous that it out parodies any parody.
What a f'n relief. Thank goodness.
Quantess
(27,630 posts)enlightenment
(8,830 posts)Parents are doing this. Why they believe it is appropriate to keep a piece of rotting flesh attached to their newborn is beyond me, but they are doing it.
MADem
(135,425 posts)defect that might be mitigated via stem cell therapy.
enlightenment
(8,830 posts)but that probably didn't occur to them as they bonded with Ulysses and his rotting placenta.
While I am suspect of their assertion that Ulysses deliberately pulled off the cord on his own, I find I am heartened by the idea that the poor little guy may have been desperate enough to do it.
MADem
(135,425 posts)stanking thang!!!!
I hope he retains some vestigial memory of this unfortunate introduction to life - which will probably be followed by the no nappie toilet training . . . what is that one called?
Maybe he can start pissing in his mother's shoes for revenge.
fadedrose
(10,044 posts)enlightenment
(8,830 posts)Understood. It does defy belief.
fadedrose
(10,044 posts)Cali doesn't have a kid named Ulysses either
I would cry if it were her that did this. It makes my vision of
Cali a complete distortion....
....
tblue37
(65,227 posts)just that it is so extreme that it would be impossible to parody it.
Sort of like with Poe's Law about right wing nuttiness. Right wingers say and do stuff that is so extreme, so bizarre, that it has become impossible to clearly distinguish between words or actions by a real right winger and a parody of RW nuttery.
Auntie Bush
(17,528 posts)fadedrose
(10,044 posts)But thought Cali was writing about herself until the last line...
tblue37
(65,227 posts)it clear up front when they are quoting someone else's piece and when the text in their post is something they have produced themselves.
Iuse blocqutes and also a different colored font to identify qoted material that is too long to simply enclose in quotation marks.
Hayabusa
(2,135 posts)Trying to keep the cord on at all costs? I don't even know if that's physically possible, but I bet someone's gonna try it...
mshasta
(2,108 posts)back in my old town ...we cut the cord..it is bad if you leave on...smells!, smells, smells,
here natural births are taking a nonsense level
notadmblnd
(23,720 posts)Where Jim Carrey was a grown adult and was still attached to his mother via umbilical cord and had to follow her where ever she went. Must have been where this woman got the idea.
MADem
(135,425 posts)I know what the kid was thinking "Jesus, you nitwits--get this stanky, funky shitty thing OFFA me!!! And What Is UP with naming me Ulysses? You WANT me to get my ass beat on the schoolyard, is that it? I'd best learn how to change my own diaper if I wanna survive in this nuthouse!"
Uncle Joe
(58,298 posts)http://www.artble.com/artists/joshua_reynolds/paintings/the_infant_hercules_strangling_serpents_in_his_cradle
The Infant Hercules Strangling Serpents in his Cradle
Joshua Reynolds
Sir Joshua Reynolds' turbulent mythological masterpiece is a swirl of volatility, depicting an action-packed scene. The story is derived from the classical Roman myth, originally stemming from Greek mythology. Hercules' character had been adapted as it went through Roman culture and even early Germanic culture as well.
In this specific scene, Reynolds painted Hercules as a baby in his cradle fighting off the two snakes sent by Hera, Zeus' wife who was jealous of the infant.
Xipe Totec
(43,888 posts)Uncle Joe
(58,298 posts)http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erpeton_tentaculatum
Hunting is accomplished via a unique ambush method. Tentacled snakes spend much of their time in a rigid posture.[2] The tail is used to anchor the animal underwater while its body assumes a distinctive upside-down "J" shape. The striking range is a narrow area downwards from its head, somewhat towards its body. Once a fish swims within that area the snake will strike by pulling itself down in one quick motion towards the prey.
Xipe Totec
(43,888 posts)tenta, which means to feel, and culo which means asshole.
So a "tentáculo" is an ass feeler or ass grabber.
Just something to ponder...
Uncle Joe
(58,298 posts)"Dad always thought laughter was the best medicine, which I guess is why several of us died of tuberculosis."
Jack Handey
Xipe Totec
(43,888 posts)MADem
(135,425 posts)Tansy_Gold
(17,847 posts)probably don't believe in diapers either.
MADem
(135,425 posts)Tansy_Gold
(17,847 posts)MadrasT
(7,237 posts)Arkana
(24,347 posts)NYC_SKP
(68,644 posts).
laundry_queen
(8,646 posts)since even vegan animals chew off the cord, LOL. Have a lotus birth, fine, but don't make ridiculous statements like this.
Auntie Bush
(17,528 posts)I'm sure with little effort you can think of many things that animals do that we wouldn't want to copy.
Retrograde
(10,130 posts)and which all known cultures use in some form, along with string - if she didn't want to gnaw through the cord she could have used those paleolithic inventions to, I dunno, tie off the umbilicus and cut it. Just like women have been doing since time immemorial.
I'm guessing that a placenta is a little like a liver or any other blood-filled organ: if you leave it out of the body for any appreciable time it goes bad and starts to smell rather quickly. I can't begin to imagine what it would be like after 6 days, especially wrapped in plastic.
Mariana
(14,854 posts)only because they don't make and use knives. The only way they can sever the cord is with their teeth.
seveneyes
(4,631 posts)Next thing you know someone will be putting out plates for the infant to shit in to avoid diapers.
Puzzledtraveller
(5,937 posts)Manifestor_of_Light
(21,046 posts)That's my favorite line of bullshit from natural birth nuts.
Well, excuuuse me. I would be DEAD, yes, DEAD and so would my now-grown child if I had not had a C-section. And anybody who thinks all women can deliver vaginally are full of shit. They can go to hell as far as I'm concerned. Excellent doctors and nurses saved my life and my child's life. C-sections are routine now and they save a LOT of mothers' and babies' lives.
You can't get a watermelon through a 3 inch pipe. End of discussion.
laundry_queen
(8,646 posts)vaginas are made to birth babies (and have sex). A baby's head is no where near as big as a watermelon, and the vagina is amazingly elastic. It's not a metal pipe.
Many C-sections are CAUSED by the medical community because they over 'manage' birth. My first C-section was entirely avoidable and once you have 1 C-section you are branded for life. I went on to have a VBAC (see? My pelvis WASN'T 'too small' like I was told - it was all lies. My second baby was bigger, too). My doctors with my first told me I'd have died if it wasn't for a C-section and that I was simply unable to birth babies.
Clearly that was not true. But women who are told that often go away thinking they were 'saved' by their C-section when truth is that most women WILL give birth naturally without interventions. I studied this for years so I could go on, but needless to say, C-sections also cost lives and many C-sections are mainly done for convenience sake.
Do C-sections save lives? Sure. Are they done WAY too often? Absolutely. It's been suggested that about 5% of births genuinely need a C-section. Since the C-section rate is around 30%, it's clear many are done unnecessarily, and as mentioned, C-sections can introduce a whole 'nother batch of complications. It's a decision that needs to not be taken lightly. I know of women who have had babies die for lack of a C-section and I know of women who have died or been maimed from C-sections. We should always try for natural first and then - only if necessary medically, not because of the clock or the doctor being impatient - maybe C-section becomes an option.
Manifestor_of_Light
(21,046 posts)Or else it's too small for the baby's head to get through.
That's why you have to dilate to 10 cm to be fully dilated. Four inches and 10 cm are almost the same. It's a simple mechanical problem. You say that you have "studied this for years". I learned it from an obstetric nursing textbook. A good OB can tell by pelvic exam whether or not your pelvis is big enough. Mine wasn't. So that's why I had to have a C-section. My doctor told me I was not wide enough in the wheelbase to have a normal sized baby, let alone a big one.
My contractions got stronger and eventually stopped, because the baby was not being pushed out so my uterus was giving up. The baby was in distress. It was time for a C-section.
I am petite, and have narrow hips. So mine was necessary. One natural childbirth nut on this board INSISTS that all women can deliver vaginally and I argued with her because she didn't understand what I was saying. She insisted I must have a "deformed pelvis".
Nope, I'm just a small woman.
And BTW when I went into labor I had NO dilation and NO dropping because the baby's head was too big to drop. I had a healthy 8 pounder which I thought was huge. I'm part of that 5% that would die otherwise. Women who have been maimed or died from C sections had incompetent doctors.
I don't think doctors want to do C-sections unless it's necessary or there is fear of hypoxia from distressed labor. You need a skilled surgeon.
Pab Sungenis
(9,612 posts)must long for the time when it was almost expected that a mother would die in childbirth.
laundry_queen
(8,646 posts)I learned my stuff from medical texts, hundreds of studies, dozens of midwives, some midwifery/doula courses and my doctor said himself I knew more about birth than he did and in the end he let me plan my births how I wanted, and we used to go back and forth debating medical studies and what interventions were advantageous and which weren't and in the end he viewed me as an equal with regards to childbirth...so don't try to one up me with your 'obstetric nursing textbook'. Nursing textbooks concentrate on medical procedures and complications, not how to facilitate a natural birth.
Anyway. The pelvis is not a static structure. It flexes and moves, enlarges and contracts. And the baby's head is also quite malleable. It's why many babies are born with coneheads. It's why babies have 'soft spots', so the plates in their head can move and overlap in order to fit through the birth canal. And no, a good OB cannot tell by a manual exam. Manual exams are notoriously unreliable for determining the size of the pelvis and besides, even a very small pelvis may be able to accommodate a smaller than average baby given the right circumstances. One really doesn't know until labor is underway.
I get how many woman are emotionally vested in believing they absolutely needed a C-section. I'm not saying you didn't need one but I find it interesting that you are very defensive about it, as if I'm questioning your specific circumstances or you think I'm one of those natural birth nuts too. You seem to feel the need to prove to me that you have more knowledge and know more about it than I do and that your C-section most definitely was necessary. I don't get why you are that upset about it. I just posted because I don't think it's responsible of you to make a statement that a 30% C-section rate is somehow a really great thing. It's not, and other people need to see some facts. A C-section is major surgery and has its own complications.
BTW, petite has NOTHING to do with it (another myth). My grandmother was 4'11" on a tall day, very petite and very narrow hips, and gave birth to 8 babies, from 8 - 11 lbs, no C-sections. No, her labors weren't all easy (some were) but she didn't need surgery. You are just perpetuating a myth that outside stature has anything to do with inside mechanics. Now if a woman who is 4'11" marries someone who is 6'6", perhaps it is more likely that she may have more problems giving birth than if her husband is 5'4", and in that case then yes, a C-section may be necessary. There may be a slight correlation if the father is really large, but generally a woman's body, unless there is gestational diabetes, doesn't usually grow gigantic babies that can't be birthed. Most necessary C-sections have more to do with placental placement issues, distress of the baby, transverse babies or multiples than with small maternal pelvises.
Anyway, I think I've gone on enough about it and I'm not going to get into analyzing your labor because it's clear to me you believe your surgery was necessary and there is nothing wrong with that. My whole point in responding was to counter some of the myths that many OBs like to tell their patients in order to make birth more convenient for themselves. You have to realize not everyone is you, and that most C-sections are done for crappy reasons. That doesn't negate your experience. You don't need to be defensive - you made the best decision for YOU. I get it - after my incredibly empowering VBAC with my second, I went on to have 2 scheduled C-sections. I was made to feel less-than for doing that from many people. But the decision was right for me at that time in my life, and my third C-section was a better decision than trying to induce me 2 weeks past my due date, with gestational diabetes, in a remote community with no emergency maternity services. Was it necessary? I don't know. I made the best decision I could at that time and I'm at peace with it. You should be at peace with your decision too.
RobinA
(9,886 posts)you are the one with a problem with her decision. You are arguing with her about her own medical procedure.
laundry_queen
(8,646 posts)Hell, I had 3 C-sections and I'm not arguing with myself either.
I am arguing that reasons given for C-sections are often bogus and that the current C-section rate is too high - and that there is much misinformation about what constitutes a necessary C-section.
FedUpWithIt All
(4,442 posts)I am not sure how old your now grown child is but i can tell you that things have changed tremendously between 1992 when my 21 yr old was born and this year when my youngest was born.
Even the medical profession is beginning to embrace the idea that C-sections are dangerously over used and that birth is being far too over managed medically. Most hospitals are rapidly moving to provide increasingly natural birthing options as a result,
When my oldest was born they were still removing women from a labor room to an OR style "delivery room" They stopped doing that shortly after she was born.
There is much more knowledge now about a woman's ability to deliver a child vaginally. It used to be absolutely unheard of for a woman to be allowed a hospital birth after a C-section and now it is done fairly routinely. A woman's pelvis separates when she is in the last months of pregnancy due to the hormone relaxin. The pelvis is not a solid structure but is held together in areas by ligaments which are softened by the relaxin. Position also has a lot to do with the openness of a pelvis and in the decades past, they frowned on a woman getting into different positions during advancing labor. Now, birth balls, rebozos, and birthing stools, as well as things like birthing pools, are becoming fairly common in most hospitals. Ideas and understanding are changing rapidly.
I suspect that the best available was done for you during your labor and delivery. I also suspect that it is possible things would possibly go differently if you were delivering that baby today. Perhaps not, but it is possible. That is simply the nature of the thing.
Barack_America
(28,876 posts)I would like some detail of these deaths directly caused by c-sections.
laundry_queen
(8,646 posts)Deaths from C-sections are quite a bit higher than deaths from vaginal births.
The usual causes of death following C-sections are blood loss, blood clots and infection. On average, a woman who has a NORMAL C-section will lose twice as much blood as a woman who has a normal vagina delivery.
I read a book not too long ago about a man who lost his wife to a blood clot after a C-section. You can probably find it on Amazon.
Mariana
(14,854 posts)when trying to find a particular book on Amazon. Will you provide it, please?
laundry_queen
(8,646 posts)I was reading it in a bookstore a few months ago. I never bought it.
Oh, here's an article about him - he must've written the book after that.
http://www.people.com/people/archive/article/0,,20258334,00.html
FedUpWithIt All
(4,442 posts)The maternal death rate is higher with a c-section than the maternal death rate for a vaginal birth and that is with regard to the surgery itself. The truth is the real dangers of c-sections are the directly related complications that follow them ie. infections, organ damage...
C-sections are a major surgery and the current numbers are that one in four women now have them done. That is much too high.
http://health.howstuffworks.com/pregnancy-and-parenting/pregnancy/labor-delivery/c-section2.htm
Barack_America
(28,876 posts)The bottom line still stands, availability of c-sections, performed by competent physicians, is one of the most powerful tools in reducing maternal death rates.
FedUpWithIt All
(4,442 posts)And that they have the potential for serious complications because they are a major surgery.
get the red out
(13,460 posts)And so would my Mom. The doctors let her stay in labor for at least two days before they finally gave in and gave her a C-section. We could have both easily died. My Mom said by the end she was in so much pain she was hoping to die. That was back in 1964.
Ms. Toad
(33,999 posts)I had a C-section after 48+ hours of labor.
It was necessary, given the circumstances. I had been fully effaced and dilated for several hours, and contractions had gone from regular to intermittent and ineffective, and I was exhausted from having been awake for most of the 48+ hours of labor. My doctor aligned my daughter's head in the birth canal several times, but when I pushed (or released from pushing - by now I am no longer sure) her head receded.
That said, I still suspect that the involvement of a skilled midwife would have allowed me to deliver vaginally. I think more support is needed for vaginal delivery so that labor complications don't wind up being necessary surgeries merely because there is no one who is competent to assist in overcoming routine labor complications through to delivery.
I don't know your mom's situation, but I know my own. Even though a C-section was necessary at the moment in time when I had it, I believe that had our medical system been biased toward reducing C-sections, rather than viewing them as an easy solution to routine complications, we might never have arrived at the moment in time that made it necessary.
get the red out
(13,460 posts)Either way we didn't get good care.
HappyMe
(20,277 posts)vanlassie
(5,663 posts)And flatly challenge that ANYONE EVER told you what you have claimed. That if you didn't have a natural birth, you are not really a mother. Come on.
Maybe you think that is a common claim? OK, give me one reference to any mainstream magazine, book or article in which that was said.
The statement is decisive and silly. No one says that to another mother. I will not accept that "someone said it to you." Nope. Didn't happen.
spanone
(135,795 posts)kestrel91316
(51,666 posts)polichick
(37,152 posts)Tyrs WolfDaemon
(2,289 posts)'Our connection is so strong that he didn't need his own little rope, since we had a natural one!'
Monk06
(7,675 posts)Barack_America
(28,876 posts)...let it fly. It's only natural.
taught_me_patience
(5,477 posts)I'll take modern medicine any day. Our second baby was great. Wife went in, got an epidural, induced. Two hours later, baby #2 born... no pain or weird crap involved.
pnwmom
(108,959 posts)handmade34
(22,756 posts)I had all of mine, natural and at home and I don't consider myself "nuts"
nothing weird, just wanted to be home
I did use the placentas for fertilizer under my squashes though
FedUpWithIt All
(4,442 posts)Last edited Sat Nov 2, 2013, 12:18 AM - Edit history (1)
During my last hospital birth i was induced 3 weeks early due to gestational diabetes. My body was not interested in giving birth 3 weeks early and higher and higher doses of Pitocin were pumped into my body for a labor that ended up lasting for 38 hours. The epidural they gave me had slipped from my back early on leaving me with the option to get a second injection in my spine or go without. I went without. By the time my son was born i had uterine fatigue and my uterus would not clamp down. The arteries remained open and i began to bleed, badly. two injections and talk of a possible emergency hysterectomy later, my OB had to manually massage my upper uterus. Horrifying i assure you.
My homebirth began with a natural feeling that woke me at 2 am followed by a call to my midwife and my husband setting up the last minute things around our house while i rested in the bath. By the time my midwife arrived i was about ready to deliver my son. I didn't care for the birthing pool so i delivered in my bedroom. He was born quickly and the bleeding was minimal. The whole affair, start to finish, was 2 hours. I felt better than i ever did after a hospital birth and recovered very quickly. Having him at home was one of the best decisions we have ever made.
La Lioness Priyanka
(53,866 posts)that women are literally trying to outdo each other in terms of how great they are as mothers
its really insane. it also has the net effect of making professional women drop out of the work force due to these insane standards
You might as well just leave the damn thing on, glue it on......wierd.
Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)You know, they clamp it after cutting it, right (at least those who aren't going the "lotus birth" route) and you have this thing that looks like one of those potato chip bag clips, on the baby's belly, and of course what's left sort of dries up and falls off. Some people save that thing, I guess... sort of icky. But anyway, we had our baby at home for a couple days, and I was changing a diaper and was like "Oh, that's weird, it's gone".
Didn't really think too much of it, until I was unloading the washing machine a couple days later and I was like "what is this... a pork rind? No one in the family eats... oh, ewwwwwwwwwwwww"
laundry_queen
(8,646 posts)Cali_Democrat
(30,439 posts)Boom Sound 416
(4,185 posts)And we love our children just fine
GeorgeGist
(25,311 posts)Codeine
(25,586 posts)Electric Monk
(13,869 posts)Not banned, just not posting here anymore. Anyone know the story behind that?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=profile&uid=104042
Their last post gives no indication they intended it as a last post...
Retrograde
(10,130 posts)MattBaggins
(7,897 posts)lady is whackadoodle
RiffRandell
(5,909 posts)Butterbean
(1,014 posts)Hell, it's all around where I live here in NC. *shrug* Whatever blows your skirt up, dude. Not my thing, but whatever. Reproductive choice and all that.
theHandpuppet
(19,964 posts)I had thought this was going to be satire.
fried eggs
(910 posts)What a nutcase!
B Calm
(28,762 posts)Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)We do give birth like animals. Humans are animals. As it happens, our particular animal has three interesting features.
1) we're highly social, living in tribes and close-knit family units
2) We have huge heads
3) Our upright stance means our pelvic openings can only be so big - and in fact, that opening has not kept pace with the size of our heads over the years of evolution.
Combined, this means that not only do humans utilize assisted birth, but also that we require it, as a species. Individual births vary, of course, but until very recently, childbirth was a very risky proposition, because of the complications that can - and often DID - arise. Only one wild mammal has a worse time giving birth than we do - and that species has huge craniums, a birth canal that makes a 90-degree turn, and enough female testosterone to cause spontaneous abortions fairly frequently.
Lotus birth isn't "more natural," it's not "purer" and it's actually more risky to the infant. Only a whole suite of modern technologies keep that placenta from turning into a two week-old raw pork roast in a few days. There's a reason animals and people without access to these technologies cut the damn thing off.
That's not to say there aren't ways that the birth industry gets it wrong - the "flat on your back and PUSH!" method, for instance is... pretty strange; its primary utilization is because the position allows easier access for the people helping the mother. But cutting off the placenta is probably one of the better - and more natural - ideas.
FedUpWithIt All
(4,442 posts)I definitely see the merits of allowing birth to return to a more relaxed and natural condition, in most cases.
I am personally against lotus births. The risk of infection is extremely high. There are no known benefits. It isn't even particularly natural as most animals will consume the afterbirth and sac immediately following birth. No animal in nature would leave such an obvious predator attractant attached to it's offspring.
That said, i am supportive of woman's birthing choices under most conditions. The most socially acceptable does not always equate to the most healthy or safe.
Lunacee_2013
(529 posts)was the one who detached the cord....
Coyotl
(15,262 posts)likesmountains 52
(4,098 posts)I really don't understand what rationale people have for this . I think think they just like it because it goes against all current theories and they want to be "cutting edge."
BlueToTheBone
(3,747 posts)to this OP? It seemed a lot of masculine names, but what do I know?
JI7
(89,241 posts)BlueToTheBone
(3,747 posts)only those with a vagina should weigh in on this. When your body is the one that is involved, then you should be the one to say, I'll cut this cord when the right time comes. Perhaps the revulsion comes from the fear of having a foreskin removed?
The Straight Story
(48,121 posts)Of course, I suppose the fetus is still one until the mom says it is if the umbilical cord is still attached. Thus she owns it's existence and could choose to end the thing's life or cut the cord and make it magically part of our human race (because once it becomes part of it then others might be allowed to respond to the situations it finds itself in).
Orrex
(63,172 posts)greatlaurel
(2,004 posts)These people are completely and willfully ignorant of scientific facts, especially germ theory. Having grown up on a farm and seeing our dogs drag around the cow placentas and getting the full sensory impact of rotting placentas, their idea seems completely disturbed to me. Comparing a rotting placenta to a flower is beyond absurd. This article is full of pseudo-intellectual blather.
I googled the deaths from C-sections and came up with a death rate of 11 per 100,000 births http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/rare-tragic-11-deaths-100-000-c-section-deliveries-n-u-s-article-1.988408,while the death rate for vaginal birth is about 7 per 100,000 births. It certainly makes sense that c-sections would have more deaths as it is major surgery and is usually done when the mother and/or baby are having problems. Something like one in eight women died from complications from childbirth at the start of the 20th century. My grandmother died from infection after the birth of her fifth child in 1918. My other grandmother's first child was stillborn, because she was in labor too long. I bet she would have preferred a c-section to a dead child.
As someone who was bleeding out during childbirth, I can certainly state that a c-section was preferable to hemorrhaging to death. Oh, and it was unbelievably painful, too. Normal VBAC childbirth was a breeze compared to that. Watching the blood running off the bed, onto the floor is certainly not a memory I will ever forget. I was in a hospital with a specialist on call who showed up in less than 10 minutes to do an emergency c-section that saved me and the baby. We would not have survived if we were not in a hospital. I had no preconditions that would have indicated I would have a problem, either. No one plans to hemorrhage during childbirth.
Anyone who suggests I or any other c-section mother suffer from some sort of birth guilt about having a c-section is an idiot. I was and will always be thrilled to have survived and to have a live child with no brain damage. I suspect all the rest of my c-section sisters feel the same way.
No wonder the death rates for mothers is going up in this country, with this kind of garbage being fed to the naive, the gullible and the stupid instead of actual real medical facts. This is what happens when we let corporations and the nutty religions have too much control of our education system.
FedUpWithIt All
(4,442 posts)I ask because that is a common cause of hemorrhaging during delivery.
Did they give you pitocin?
lonestarnot
(77,097 posts)joshcryer
(62,269 posts)virtualobserver
(8,760 posts)I had wondered what would happen if no actions were taken. In our long history, many women, without assistance or knowledge, have given birth. I would not advocate doing nothing, but I am relieved to find out that the outcome could be positive.