Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search

nashville_brook

(20,958 posts)
Fri Nov 1, 2013, 02:48 PM Nov 2013

Is "liberal washing" at the heart of discord in the Dem party?

Here's a piece published on Salon penned by David Sirota that calls out the practice of liberal organizations and icons lending a "liberal seal of approval" to policy initiatives that hurt middle and working class Americans. He gives historical examples such as NAFTA being put forth by President Clinton, and current examples such as "bipartisan" support for cutting Social Security which enjoys promotion by President Obama.

Sirota is inspired by The Center for American Progress liberal-washing Goldman Sachs CEO Lloyd Blankfein as an icon of “shared social goals in areas like housing, clean energy and — most recently — preventive social services.” Unsurprisingly, Goldman Sachs is a corporate donor for CAP.

Seems to me that when we find ourselves in the worst kind of disagreement, it's because of some form of liberal washing: a politician or a liberal group is advocating for the 1% at the expense of the 99. Their advocacy is rewarded in donations and access, while the rest of us are left wondering what the hell just happened. I remember feeling this way after NAFTA was passed. I trusted President Clinton and could not fathom that he'd put for policy that would hurt the middle class after all we had suffered through the Reagan/Bush years.

I think Sirota has put his finger on something important here --> that the moment of conflict where we lose our minds is when we see our trusted liberal icons breaking away from the principles that we elected them for (or, donate to their organization in the case liberal orgs). I think that the problem here is that we wind up fighting amongst ourselves instead of directing that energy toward the source.

What says DU? How do we turn this around?



http://www.salon.com/2013/11/01/how_the_1_percent_always_wins_liberal_washing_is_the_rights_new_favorite_tactic/

How the 1 percent always wins: Liberal washing is the right’s new favorite tactic
Here's why plutocrats control our politics: Corporate America knows both parties are up for sale

snip

Similar to green washing or so-called “gay washing”/“rainbow washing,” liberal washing is all about wrapping corporate America’s agenda in the veneer of fight-for-the-little-guy progressivism, thus portraying plutocrats’ radical rip-off schemes as ideologically moderate efforts to rescue the proles.

Liberal washing has always been around, of course. But it has really risen to prominence — and dominance — in modern times. Indeed, one of the most reliable political axioms of the last 30 years is this: If corporate America cooks up a scheme to rip off the middle class, Republicans will provide the bulk of the congressional votes for the scheme — but enough establishment-credentialed liberals inevitably will endorse the scheme to make it at least appear to be mainstream and bipartisan. Yes, it seems no matter how venal, underhanded or outright corrupt a heist may be, there always ends up being a group of icons with liberal billing ready to drive the getaway car.

(snip)

The famous examples of liberal washing come from the White House. A few decades ago, Democratic President Bill Clinton liberal-washed corporatist schemes like NAFTA and financial deregulation. Today, it is Democratic President Barack Obama liberal-washing the insurance industry’s healthcare initiatives and now joining with a handful of Democratic legislators to liberalwash – and legitimize – the right-wing crusade to slash Social Security benefits.

(snip)

At the municipal level, this kind of thing can be even more shameless, and it involves not only Democratic politicians but also leaders of traditionally liberal organizations. A few years ago, for example, some (but not all) prominent union leaders helped liberal-wash Rahm Emanuel. Those union leaders endorsed the former investment banker in his run for Chicago mayor, despite Emanuel being the architect of the union-crushing NAFTA and calling liberals “fucking retarded.” Once elected, Emanuel used his manufactured liberal credentials to then liberal-wash a full-scale war on organized labor. That war has included school closings and efforts to privatize municipal services — aka policies designed to undermine public-sector unions.

snip -- much more at link including many aggravating examples of liberal washing: http://www.salon.com/2013/11/01/how_the_1_percent_always_wins_liberal_washing_is_the_rights_new_favorite_tactic/


112 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Is "liberal washing" at the heart of discord in the Dem party? (Original Post) nashville_brook Nov 2013 OP
LINO's Puzzledtraveller Nov 2013 #1
definitely there's some of that -- love the acronym! nashville_brook Nov 2013 #2
Because they're not Cruz/Bachmann/Palin speaking in tongues & waving the Rebel flag ... Myrina Nov 2013 #7
there's definitely a cultural liberal vs economic liberal tension emerging nashville_brook Nov 2013 #32
This. Chan790 Nov 2013 #99
In many ways the right wing Dems are more dangerous sabrina 1 Nov 2013 #104
we ignore our economic values at our own peril. nashville_brook Nov 2013 #107
The conservative corporate MSM sets up the players, like scripting a play DJ13 Nov 2013 #15
at the end of the day it's the votes that count rather than the TV appearances nashville_brook Nov 2013 #35
The result of "liberal washing" was the gradual death of the middle class. Democrats_win Nov 2013 #3
meanwhile, companies like Halliburton noiretextatique Nov 2013 #11
Literal blood money. N/t DirkGently Nov 2013 #105
eggsactly. nashville_brook Nov 2013 #74
Who does the middle class blame? loyalsister Nov 2013 #96
War is a mechanism of upward wealth redistribution. DirkGently Nov 2013 #103
Dem voters have to get a whole lot better at identifying con men and women... polichick Nov 2013 #4
i hope not too. i think we've got lots of real liberals who wouldn't sell us out. nashville_brook Nov 2013 #6
I'm not sure the party has "lots of real liberals who wouldn't sell us out"... polichick Nov 2013 #10
there's many in the progressive caucus, but a better measure is nashville_brook Nov 2013 #19
Yeah, the progressive caucus is awesome - but mostly sidelined in the party... polichick Nov 2013 #21
I agree, Polichick whathehell Nov 2013 #58
Hillary spoke to Goldman-Sachs this week for $200,000 Fee... KoKo Nov 2013 #12
same here -- i only catch Salon articles via Twitter these days. nashville_brook Nov 2013 #16
Believe me....... KoKo Nov 2013 #64
oh no... not giving up. nashville_brook Nov 2013 #77
The Clintons enjoy Pete Peterson's patronage as well. DirkGently Nov 2013 #33
OMG...Watched it and the rest of the links that went to David Gregory! KoKo Nov 2013 #66
More to the point is-- who decides? TreasonousBastard Nov 2013 #5
There are as many definitons of "Liberalism" Cryptoad Nov 2013 #56
not really. "liberalism" and "progressivism" are quite easy to define. nashville_brook Nov 2013 #92
it breaks down to class issues and culture issues nashville_brook Nov 2013 #73
That's far too theoretical... TreasonousBastard Nov 2013 #109
I'm guessing it will be the LINO's who decide. nt LWolf Nov 2013 #85
DURec leftstreet Nov 2013 #8
If icons disapoint us, perhaps it is time to become iconoclasts. Agnosticsherbet Nov 2013 #9
i'm very sympathetic to that... nashville_brook Nov 2013 #14
There is no widespread discord in the Democratic party. This is fictional bullshit geek tragedy Nov 2013 #13
i think your post right here could be a fine "Exhibit A" of discord nashville_brook Nov 2013 #22
The point is that David Sirota is not qualified to speak on behalf of geek tragedy Nov 2013 #26
you realize he was poking a stick at loyalists... and your reading of that column is nashville_brook Nov 2013 #28
Sirota has defended the Paul clan on a number of occasions. geek tragedy Nov 2013 #29
Sirota has leveled criticisms at loyalists --> does not equal support for Ron Paul nashville_brook Nov 2013 #30
No, he lavishes false praise on the Paul clan. Ron Paul is HORRIBLE geek tragedy Nov 2013 #31
yes, we ALL get that Ron Paul is a bad person. nashville_brook Nov 2013 #36
Well, we're ALL up one on Sirota then. geek tragedy Nov 2013 #40
actually, POTUS couldn't just cut SS without it coming up in Congress nashville_brook Nov 2013 #46
With Republicans controlling the House and squishy Dems like Baucus geek tragedy Nov 2013 #47
that, we agree on. :) nashville_brook Nov 2013 #51
He thinks Ron Paul is a progressive? Jamaal510 Nov 2013 #57
If you oppose drones and federal drug laws, you're like Frederick Douglas apparently nt geek tragedy Nov 2013 #59
"There's no discord, so shut up you Naderite fringe loon?" DirkGently Nov 2013 #25
Seems ironic, doesn't it? But I don't think it is. I think it is exactly the pattern GoneFishin Nov 2013 #52
i hope you're right. we seem to be full of good sense nashville_brook Nov 2013 #90
Neat trick. AnotherMcIntosh Nov 2013 #17
unless we push back -- it's up to us to make sure they don't get away with it! nashville_brook Nov 2013 #93
Assuming the logic is that liberals have to go DirkGently Nov 2013 #18
and it would be nice if we could avoid the taking of hostages... nashville_brook Nov 2013 #20
And no gigantic corporate ally will fund that effort. DirkGently Nov 2013 #24
it has to come from the true grassroots: community coalitions nashville_brook Nov 2013 #78
sucker's bet reddread Nov 2013 #110
Yep, the solution is dilution. zeemike Nov 2013 #38
"veal-pen" the libs, then "bluewash" Pub policy to make it seem lefty, then have the Pubs MisterP Nov 2013 #23
"blue wash" is a much more elegant term -- love it. nashville_brook Nov 2013 #27
Bluewash...perfict. zeemike Nov 2013 #41
I think it is more class-based. Starry Messenger Nov 2013 #34
spot on. nashville_brook Nov 2013 #39
"President Obama is a socialist!" (n/t) a2liberal Nov 2013 #37
There was a shocking amount of liberal-washing for the Citizen's United decision... Blue_Tires Nov 2013 #42
expect more of that with Citizen's United 2: McKutcheon nashville_brook Nov 2013 #44
Fixing this means vetting candidates at the grass-roots level .... Scuba Nov 2013 #43
our biggest funders at the state level tend also to be DLC-y (not surprising) nashville_brook Nov 2013 #45
Comparing Cryptoad Nov 2013 #48
no one is saying that, though, are they? we're talking about identity theft... nashville_brook Nov 2013 #50
+1000. n/t GoneFishin Nov 2013 #54
There is no way of ranting about Liberal Washing Cryptoad Nov 2013 #55
I'm not sure I'm understanding what you're claiming. nashville_brook Nov 2013 #82
"Identity theft"-- good description! deurbano Nov 2013 #61
liberal washing is showering more than once daily. nt Bernardo de La Paz Nov 2013 #49
... nashville_brook Nov 2013 #53
What's sad is that these tactics. sendero Nov 2013 #60
Indeed... I think there are a few sincere..who are young and full of hope KoKo Nov 2013 #67
i think it's safe to assume that DU is the "inside baseball" conversation nashville_brook Nov 2013 #83
You never get better than the government you vote FOR. nt Demo_Chris Nov 2013 #62
you never get a better government that whose campaigns are fully-funded. nashville_brook Nov 2013 #94
Perhaps it would make more sense if people looked up what "liberal" means Cal Carpenter Nov 2013 #63
NAFTA was not liberal -- no one thinks that. nashville_brook Nov 2013 #95
No one except most of the world Cal Carpenter Nov 2013 #98
I agree with Sirota most of the time and I think this is spot-on. alarimer Nov 2013 #65
i like that his approach is to be anti-beltway, and write from Colorado nashville_brook Nov 2013 #76
That's why we can't vote for just any democrat. They must have a proven track record of working for liberal_at_heart Nov 2013 #68
Rahm is an unmitigated disaster for the people of Chicago nashville_brook Nov 2013 #80
The day Pres. Obama chose Rahm for Chief of Staff, he showed his cards. polichick Nov 2013 #111
Yes, and we see it on this board YoungDemCA Nov 2013 #69
i didn't actually have class in mind on this, but i think that's the root of it... nashville_brook Nov 2013 #91
CAP is not a liberal organization in my book. Jim Lane Nov 2013 #70
think tank CAPture. would be nice to create a list or a ranking nashville_brook Nov 2013 #75
du rec. xchrom Nov 2013 #71
Julien Benda: "La trahison des clercs", the treason of the intellectuals. bemildred Nov 2013 #72
will have to check this out! nashville_brook Nov 2013 #89
There might be something to that. ananda Nov 2013 #79
with both Clinton and Obama, the constant/absurd attacks from the right nashville_brook Nov 2013 #81
This. ^ Next to the Ted Cruzes of the world, DirkGently Nov 2013 #86
if we had a functioning Overton Window we'd have actual policy victories nashville_brook Nov 2013 #88
In the 60s, my brother called it the "anti-establishment establishment." Eleanors38 Nov 2013 #84
i think it's a safe assumption that a good percentage of DU folk nashville_brook Nov 2013 #87
I hope so. 40 yrs. ago, activists knew when they were making concerted efforts. Eleanors38 Nov 2013 #108
Many liberals can see right through the liberal washing. Vashta Nerada Nov 2013 #97
as president, Bill Clinton was adept at blurring the interests of 1% vs 99% nashville_brook Nov 2013 #100
The Clintons seemed to bite on the notion DirkGently Nov 2013 #102
yes, that is the product they were selling reddread Nov 2013 #112
I was a dem since 1975 & I changed my affiliation this summer. CrispyQ Nov 2013 #101
i'm actually heartened by how many grok what's wrong with liberal washing nashville_brook Nov 2013 #106

nashville_brook

(20,958 posts)
2. definitely there's some of that -- love the acronym!
Fri Nov 1, 2013, 02:55 PM
Nov 2013

there's something that seems missing, though. like, how does a politico acquire liberal status if they *always* turn around and support 1%-friendly policy?

Is this a function of gifting people like Rahm Emanuel and Evan Bayh liberal status when they really haven't earned it?

Myrina

(12,296 posts)
7. Because they're not Cruz/Bachmann/Palin speaking in tongues & waving the Rebel flag ...
Fri Nov 1, 2013, 03:20 PM
Nov 2013

.... most voters don't look - really look - at their critter's voting record day in & day out.
So they get a general persona of being a liberal because they're not a rabid wingnut and then go vote their Wall Street/Bank/MIC donors' way when the cameras aren't looking. But they show up at rallies and marches for LGBT equality, gun control, reproductive freedom, religious freedom et al to earn their "liberal stripes".

nashville_brook

(20,958 posts)
32. there's definitely a cultural liberal vs economic liberal tension emerging
Fri Nov 1, 2013, 05:00 PM
Nov 2013

it's just not okay to be culturally conservative anymore and call yourself a Dem. We need to make it just as toxic to be economically out-of-step with the party.

we simply don't have the capacity to bleed $$ anymore. middle class families are a dying breed.

 

Chan790

(20,176 posts)
99. This.
Sat Nov 2, 2013, 12:10 PM
Nov 2013

Much like on the right, I expect it may eventually lead to an intra-party schism between 3rd Way Democrats and Social Democrats.

I'm biased. I hate and oppose conservative Democrats every bit as strongly as I do Republicans. To me, if you're not pro-labor, fair-trade and economically-liberal, you cannot be a Democrat. If you support TPP, you're not a Democrat. If you support Keystone XL, you're not a Democrat. If you accept conservative supply-side economics, you're not a a Democrat. If you oppose the civil rights of women and LGBTQ individuals, you're not a Democrat.

sabrina 1

(62,325 posts)
104. In many ways the right wing Dems are more dangerous
Sat Nov 2, 2013, 01:36 PM
Nov 2013

than the Repubs because they can get votes the Repubs could never get from the left, which is what slowed down their agenda for so long.

So then they decided to infiltrate the Dem Party with their policies and put a Liberal rubber stamp on them, getting the votes they needed to speed things up.

It was brilliant when you think of it. Many of us fell for it for a long time.

I also think they've taken it further to get enough of the Left on board, by pretending to be opposed to many policies they totally support. Once they know they can get something passed ONLY by Dems and couple of Repubs if needed, they can rouse up the Left to defend what they traditionally opposed, by pitting them against THEM.

After watching it all over the past few years, what once was puzzling, seeing Dems you trusted vote for Bush policies, eg, it has become much more clear as to what they were up to.

So now that the game is up what do we do?

nashville_brook

(20,958 posts)
107. we ignore our economic values at our own peril.
Sat Nov 2, 2013, 02:19 PM
Nov 2013

too many dems have bought into this ugly notion that policy for the 1% somehow trickles down to us. It never has and it never will. it's completely irrational.

DJ13

(23,671 posts)
15. The conservative corporate MSM sets up the players, like scripting a play
Fri Nov 1, 2013, 04:11 PM
Nov 2013

They need "liberals" to offset the many conservatives they have on air, and those "liberals" have to be naturally weak in morals to allow the conservative side to "win".

Our base has no say in who is labeled as liberal, or who gets the TV time to make our case.

nashville_brook

(20,958 posts)
35. at the end of the day it's the votes that count rather than the TV appearances
Fri Nov 1, 2013, 05:02 PM
Nov 2013

this is definitely something that needs more attention though b/c if appearances on Sunday Talk Shows determined the direction of the country then we'd be living in some dystopian Republican hellhole by now.






wait... that horse might have already left the barn.





kill me now.

Democrats_win

(6,539 posts)
3. The result of "liberal washing" was the gradual death of the middle class.
Fri Nov 1, 2013, 03:08 PM
Nov 2013

Now look at the mess, the middle class is stuck paying "through the nose" for the rich man's foolish war in Iraq. And we are paying big time--for their massive mistake.

noiretextatique

(27,275 posts)
11. meanwhile, companies like Halliburton
Fri Nov 1, 2013, 03:35 PM
Nov 2013

and its shareholders, reap private profits from the use of public funds in Iraq. that's the MOST galling thing of all.

nashville_brook

(20,958 posts)
74. eggsactly.
Sat Nov 2, 2013, 10:10 AM
Nov 2013

it used to be that all Dems tried to position themselves as middle class champions -- now it's the rare Elizabeth Warrens and Alan Graysons who are truly putting themselves out there on our issues.

can we dare say that the Iraq War might not have happened, or might not have been such a treasury-emptying jubilee for Cheney had there been some real middle class fighters left in Congress?

loyalsister

(13,390 posts)
96. Who does the middle class blame?
Sat Nov 2, 2013, 12:05 PM
Nov 2013

Working poor and very poor. The demonization of those groups has worked since the 80s. It's easier to blame a lazy neighbor than to blame the military who saved them from terrorism. Or, their employer to whom they are loyal.
People don't want to believe they are victims.

DirkGently

(12,151 posts)
103. War is a mechanism of upward wealth redistribution.
Sat Nov 2, 2013, 01:23 PM
Nov 2013

Middle / working classes bleed and pay the bill. The wealthy collect defense industry checks or stock dividends and dodge their own taxes.

polichick

(37,152 posts)
4. Dem voters have to get a whole lot better at identifying con men and women...
Fri Nov 1, 2013, 03:14 PM
Nov 2013

and also learn to demand what we know to be just and right.

Honestly, this party may be too far gone to really serve the people again - but I hope not.

nashville_brook

(20,958 posts)
6. i hope not too. i think we've got lots of real liberals who wouldn't sell us out.
Fri Nov 1, 2013, 03:19 PM
Nov 2013

i guess we just need better ways of separating the policy issues from the personalities.

...and... this is why it's so depressing to see CAP leaning in to support Goldman Sachs. we expect policy think tanks to stay on the policy side and do so with integrity. This shows a lack of integrity on their part.

polichick

(37,152 posts)
10. I'm not sure the party has "lots of real liberals who wouldn't sell us out"...
Fri Nov 1, 2013, 03:28 PM
Nov 2013

but even here at DU those who wouldn't sell out the people are seen as unelectable.

imo if the Dem Party doesn't become populist and concerned with justice, a new party will arise, comprised of disenchanted Dems, Indies, Republicans and those who haven't been involved at all.

nashville_brook

(20,958 posts)
19. there's many in the progressive caucus, but a better measure is
Fri Nov 1, 2013, 04:24 PM
Nov 2013

probably congress members with a small donor base giving large amounts vs those with a large donor base giving small amounts.

i think we saw the first real rumblings of desire for a new political party (or movement) with Occupy. i was taken aback by the diversity of people supporting occupy.

I'm not very hopeful for a 3rd party b/c our system is structured to alienate anyone outside of the established 2-party system. but again, the rise of independents might be changing that. in 10 or 20 years we might actually see a wholly new landscape. what we have now might just collapse of its own weight.

will try to find the campaign donor chart that shows large/small donors. i think it was created by the WaPo.

polichick

(37,152 posts)
21. Yeah, the progressive caucus is awesome - but mostly sidelined in the party...
Fri Nov 1, 2013, 04:30 PM
Nov 2013

I think you're right about Occupy - those feelings aren't gone and will eventually turn into something powerful.

KoKo

(84,711 posts)
12. Hillary spoke to Goldman-Sachs this week for $200,000 Fee...
Fri Nov 1, 2013, 03:36 PM
Nov 2013

So...what should we expect from CAP. Some of us are feeling we got sold out in 2008. After all the work trying to build Grassroots under Howard Dean....we got sold out even before inauguration with appointments and then (even though we hoped it was first year transition) it never stopped...

BTW...thanks for this post. I don't check out Salon as much since Greewald left.

nashville_brook

(20,958 posts)
16. same here -- i only catch Salon articles via Twitter these days.
Fri Nov 1, 2013, 04:11 PM
Nov 2013

the Howard Dean example is classic. here's someone who changed the face of campaigning with a true grassroots 50-state strategy, and is largely responsible for the successes of 2008. Then he has the door slammed in his face. such a wake-up call.

CAP is one of the worst offenders with liberal washing, for sure. it's a shame b/c they still do some important research -- but the good stuff will likely get lost as their brand suffers from corporate usage.

KoKo

(84,711 posts)
64. Believe me.......
Fri Nov 1, 2013, 07:56 PM
Nov 2013

it's sad...

But DAMN IT...I'm not GIVING UP...and hope You aren't either.

Although...these days ..I wonder why I bother!

But...I keep bothering.

nashville_brook

(20,958 posts)
77. oh no... not giving up.
Sat Nov 2, 2013, 10:22 AM
Nov 2013

personally, i spent too much time in "give-up" mode in my 30s -- b/c of work. i had no time or personal space to do the work. things have changed, and I'm "in it" now more than ever. and, i'm wiser than i was when i was younger. i think that helps.

DirkGently

(12,151 posts)
33. The Clintons enjoy Pete Peterson's patronage as well.
Fri Nov 1, 2013, 05:00 PM
Nov 2013

http://www.fiscalsummit.com/

How scary can Mr. Let's Pretend SS is driving the deficit so we can kill it be, if he rubs Foundations with Bill and Hillary?

Pretty scary, actually.

KoKo

(84,711 posts)
66. OMG...Watched it and the rest of the links that went to David Gregory!
Fri Nov 1, 2013, 08:22 PM
Nov 2013

Deleted. Too much ranting by me.

TreasonousBastard

(43,049 posts)
5. More to the point is-- who decides?
Fri Nov 1, 2013, 03:18 PM
Nov 2013

Aside from some basic values and principles, the very idea that we have to adhere to some list would seem to be the antithesis of liberalism and free thought.

Most of us here agree with most of the "liberal agenda" as it seems to be proposed, but hardly anyone agrees with it entirely. Guns is a prime example and I don't know if the hard left has even proposed a "liberal" stance. Most women here, afik, want abortion to be freely available, but some do have hard time with the concept. If a woman's own feelings and decisions about her own body conflict with the general consensus, do we throw her out for daring to say she would never have an abortion?

If you were a governor of a state with high unemployment and a pipeline was proposed, guaranteeing 50,000 jobs for two years and another 5,000 permanent ones, do you get thrown under the bus by literal liberals for agreeing to it? Even if firm environmental safeguards are part of the package?

My point is simply that the real world is not an anonymous discussion group with little influence. Out there are myriads of opinions, vast wants and needs, problems that need solving, and simply pointing to a wishlist of the perfect world won't get us very far. Having such a list is good for balance and to remind us who we are, but blind adherence just doesn't work.


nashville_brook

(20,958 posts)
92. not really. "liberalism" and "progressivism" are quite easy to define.
Sat Nov 2, 2013, 11:48 AM
Nov 2013

where we get the "multiple" definitions is when folks try to advance anti-liberal policy as "true blue."

people are always going to try and pass off fake knock-offs for the authentic thing. that doesn't make it so, however.

nashville_brook

(20,958 posts)
73. it breaks down to class issues and culture issues
Sat Nov 2, 2013, 09:28 AM
Nov 2013

The GOP figured this out a long time ago, that if they focused on "culture wars" they could get away with emptying the treasury for their buddies. Is it that the Dems are playing catch-up?

The matter of "who decides" seems to be fairly easy to clarify: it's the people with money, access and power. So let's say in the next presidential primary we have a slate of 5 contenders who fall anywhere on the spectrum from deep blue to reddish purple: economically populist to neo-liberal/Republican Lite. The money is going to follow the candidate with the most money-friendly positions on policy. Money votes for money with money.

The bargain we've made seems to be that if we can make some headway on cultural issues that we'll deal with the free-market/Pete Peterson types b/c "only the best-funded can be elected." That's why Anthony Weiner was considered the defacto nominee for NY mayor until his alter-ego, Carlos Danger knocked him out of the race. Then we see that the actual liberal, De Blasio, is electable after all -- when before he was considered "too liberal" and "too populist" to be a "serious" candidate.

TreasonousBastard

(43,049 posts)
109. That's far too theoretical...
Mon Nov 4, 2013, 03:14 AM
Nov 2013

real people have real issues. In NYC you have landlords and tenants who each have certain rights but have been at war with each other for years. Negotiations are treacherous, subject to a number of state and city laws and regulations, and take forever. In Suffolk County the cops want a raise but they are the highest paid county employees already...

It goes on, and then the schools need this and the parents insist on that, and some anti-tax asshole wants to shut it all down...

and the your congressman has a defense plant in the district that he's fighting to keep open for the jobs, while the EPA is pissing off another business in the district making a poisonous fertilizer...

It's really not easy at all.

Agnosticsherbet

(11,619 posts)
9. If icons disapoint us, perhaps it is time to become iconoclasts.
Fri Nov 1, 2013, 03:25 PM
Nov 2013

We need to cease supporting individual icons and stand for polices.

nashville_brook

(20,958 posts)
14. i'm very sympathetic to that...
Fri Nov 1, 2013, 04:06 PM
Nov 2013

one of my favorite college professors used to say that we have a problem with the media reporting on personalities rather than policies. this was 20+ years ago and at the time i had no idea what he was talking about.

it's so much clearer now.

on one level we're human, and as such we need "personal narratives" to understand things. but, we shouldn't disempower ourselves by creating heroes to take the place of doing the real work.

 

geek tragedy

(68,868 posts)
13. There is no widespread discord in the Democratic party. This is fictional bullshit
Fri Nov 1, 2013, 03:36 PM
Nov 2013

being peddled to make Nader/McKinney types feel superior to mainstream liberals.

Note that Sirota prefers Ron Paul to Barack Obama, so he's qualified to speak for neither Democrats nor liberals.

The fringe is still the fringe.

http://www.salon.com/2012/01/10/what_makes_a_progressive_president/



Of course, an Obama supporter might argue that the set of issues they can agree with Paul on are less monumental than the set of issues they agree with Obama on. But don’t mistake such a conversation-ending declaration as fact. On the contrary, it’s merely a subjective opinion — and a debatable one at that. Indeed, Paul supporters would make a compelling case that it’s exactly the opposite — that the progressive side of Paul’s program relates to more pressing issues than Obama’s progressive positions in this, the age of multitrillion-dollar bailouts, deficit-exploding defense budgets, assaults on the most basic tenets of the Bill of Rights and what the Pentagon now calls “the era of persistent conflict” (read: Permanent War). And they have a strong case to make that by virtue of the modern presidency Paul would be guaranteed to actually enact the progressive parts of his program, whereas the progressive parts of President Obama’s program are more a question of congressional politics (a good example of that truism was the healthcare bill, which went from a mildly progressive White House proposal to a public-option-free boondoggle for the insurance and drug industries by the time Obama and his lobbyist friends finished massaging it through Congress).

In holding this pragmatic view, it doesn’t mean Paul’s progressive-minded supporters believe in the reactionary tenets of Paul’s agenda (eliminating major social programs, opposing civil rights laws, ending all taxes, having a history associated with racist newsletters, etc.) any more than it means Obama’s progressive-minded supporters are thrilled with all of the president’s ultra-conservative actions (wars, mass killing of civilians, trampling of civil liberties, bank bailouts, a racist drug war, etc.). It only means that there’s a calculation at work — one that takes into account the realities of presidential power.


http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/ron_paul_and_our_selective_definition_of_bigotry_20120120?ln

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-sirota/what-dems-dont-want-menti_b_583807.html

http://www.alternet.org/story/153246/why_do_young_voters_love_ron_paul



nashville_brook

(20,958 posts)
22. i think your post right here could be a fine "Exhibit A" of discord
Fri Nov 1, 2013, 04:34 PM
Nov 2013

one can only come to the conclusion that there's a willfulness on your part to try and shoehorn Sirota's piece linked here as "supporting Ron Paul over Obama" when he states in the first 'graph, "Yet, with a virulent case of Ron Paul Derangement Syndrome plaguing partisan Obama loyalists, it bears repeating if only to preempt future mischaracterizations and slander: I am not endorsing Ron Paul for president."

if there wasn't discord you wouldn't come out swinging like this -- no one here wants Ron Paul or his idiot son to be anything except retired.

what we do want is policy that helps our families and keeps our country competitive. is that too much to ask?

 

geek tragedy

(68,868 posts)
26. The point is that David Sirota is not qualified to speak on behalf of
Fri Nov 1, 2013, 04:42 PM
Nov 2013

anyone but him damn self, let alone the Democratic party or liberals in general. Especially after pimping the idea that a reasonable case can be made that Ron Paul would govern as a progressive. It should hurt to be that stupid.

There is no widespread discord within the Democratic party--the party is more or less as unified as it has ever been. You want a party in discord, look at the Republicans.




What one does see are arguments from the supposed "Real Democrats in exile" who feel as though the vast majority of people who call themselves Democrats deserve to be excommunicated, much like the Opus Dei types view most Catholics as heretics.

nashville_brook

(20,958 posts)
28. you realize he was poking a stick at loyalists... and your reading of that column is
Fri Nov 1, 2013, 04:45 PM
Nov 2013

willfully ignoring that. you realize that... no?

 

geek tragedy

(68,868 posts)
29. Sirota has defended the Paul clan on a number of occasions.
Fri Nov 1, 2013, 04:52 PM
Nov 2013
http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/ron_paul_and_our_selective_definition_of_bigotry_20120120?ln

One camp cites Paul’s hate-filled newsletters and his libertarian opposition to civil rights regulations as evidence that he aligns with racists. As the esteemed scholar Tim Wise puts it, this part of Paul’s record proves that he represents “the reactionary, white supremacist, Social Darwinists of this culture, who believe ... the police who dragged sit-in protesters off soda fountain stools for trespassing on a white man’s property were justified in doing so, and that the freedom of department store owners to refuse to let black people try on clothes in their dressing rooms was more sacrosanct than the right of black people to be treated like human beings.”

The other camp tends to acknowledge those ugly truths about Paul but then points out that the Texas congressman has been one of the only politicians 1) fighting surveillance, indefinite detention and due-process-free assassination policies almost exclusively aimed at minorities; 2) opposing wars that often seem motivated by rank Islamophobia; and 3) railing against the bigotry of a drug war that disproportionately targets people of color.

Summarizing this part of Paul’s record, the Atlantic Monthly’s Conor Friedersdorf has written: “When it comes to America’s most racist or racially fraught policies” affecting the world today, “Paul is arguably on the right side of all of them (while) his opponents are often on the wrong side.”


Only a libertarian tool would suggest that Ron Paul is on black people's side on all or most substantive issues of oppression and injustice, other than civil rights laws passed in the 1960's. And if someone needs that comment explained, they're probably a libertarian.

http://www.salon.com/2011/11/28/why_young_voters_love_ron_paul/

Why young voters love Ron Paul
It's not because they're potheads. It's because they're sick of America's militaristic misadventures


Did you know that young voters love Ron Paul? David Sirota thinks so.

Don't forget this one:

http://www.salon.com/2013/03/07/liberals_should_proudly_cheer_on_rand_paul/

Reporting on Rand Paul’s heroic filibuster against President Obama’s drone war, Stan makes the case that progressives shouldn’t support such a filibuster because Paul is a Big Bad Republican. She says it is “horrifying to see” principled progressives cheer on Paul’s attempt to force the Obama administration to answer basic questions about civil liberties — horrifying not because Paul is wrong on that issue, but because he’s wrong on other, totally unrelated issues and represents an evil “paranoid base” that dares to fear a government that “might soon be launching drones against them.”



Yes, he described Rand "drone liquor store robbers for all I care" Paul's fundraising stunt as "heroic."

Fuck David Sirota.

nashville_brook

(20,958 posts)
30. Sirota has leveled criticisms at loyalists --> does not equal support for Ron Paul
Fri Nov 1, 2013, 04:57 PM
Nov 2013

i get that you need to find a yarn to pull to try and undermine Sirota b/c of his criticism of some personalities within the party. but, this might not be the most effective way of going about it.

 

geek tragedy

(68,868 posts)
31. No, he lavishes false praise on the Paul clan. Ron Paul is HORRIBLE
Fri Nov 1, 2013, 04:59 PM
Nov 2013

on policies that affect black people. Rand Paul is NOT 'heroic' for a stunt on the Senate floor designed to be a moneybomb.

 

geek tragedy

(68,868 posts)
40. Well, we're ALL up one on Sirota then.
Fri Nov 1, 2013, 05:08 PM
Nov 2013

More to the point, yes there's a problem with pols being swayed by big money. Liberal, conservative, whatever--it happens.

When has this not been the case? Never.

If Obama really wanted to cut social security, he would have done it by now. The biggest obstacle, btw, to any kind of Social Security tampering is the oligarch's club known as the US Senate.

nashville_brook

(20,958 posts)
46. actually, POTUS couldn't just cut SS without it coming up in Congress
Fri Nov 1, 2013, 05:19 PM
Nov 2013

so, that's kind of a non-starter. we know he's signed on to the Grand Bargain, so we know that's on his agenda. it's up to us to protect our economic interests in this bc we're not going to enjoy any help from the executive branch.

 

geek tragedy

(68,868 posts)
47. With Republicans controlling the House and squishy Dems like Baucus
Fri Nov 1, 2013, 05:21 PM
Nov 2013

and Durbin in the Senate, it would be a lot easier than it should be.

This sounds funny to a lot of people, but thank goodness for Harry Reid.

Jamaal510

(10,893 posts)
57. He thinks Ron Paul is a progressive?
Fri Nov 1, 2013, 06:19 PM
Nov 2013

I didn't know that it makes a person "progressive" to oppose the Civil Rights act and equate taxation to theft.

DirkGently

(12,151 posts)
25. "There's no discord, so shut up you Naderite fringe loon?"
Fri Nov 1, 2013, 04:40 PM
Nov 2013

Kind of proving the oppsition's case, gt.

If opposing liberal leaders taking middle-class hating monied interests to bed is fringey, that "fringe" is a lot deeper and wider than you seem to believe. About 99% so.

GoneFishin

(5,217 posts)
52. Seems ironic, doesn't it? But I don't think it is. I think it is exactly the pattern
Fri Nov 1, 2013, 06:06 PM
Nov 2013

described in the OP.

A right leaning agenda dressed up to appear left leaning. But there's not enough lipstick to fool most people on DU.

DirkGently

(12,151 posts)
18. Assuming the logic is that liberals have to go
Fri Nov 1, 2013, 04:20 PM
Nov 2013

"where the money is" feels like the root of the problem. All the "too big to fail" behemoths are presumed to be non-defiable.

We have to put up leaders who DO defy the Goldman Sachs and JP Morgan and Pete Peterson's of the world, or we'll forever be trying to rationalize the 1%'s interests over our own.

nashville_brook

(20,958 posts)
20. and it would be nice if we could avoid the taking of hostages...
Fri Nov 1, 2013, 04:28 PM
Nov 2013

right now it seems like we're told to DONATE NOW or else our best champions will lose their seats. Very true with many if not most.

so we do the work, write the checks and all of sudden we find that some of them didn't actually mean that they'd support US. it's breeding cynicism which breeds apathy. we need leadership that holds us together and (for me right now) the only way to do that is to keep us SOLID on Social Security.

DirkGently

(12,151 posts)
24. And no gigantic corporate ally will fund that effort.
Fri Nov 1, 2013, 04:36 PM
Nov 2013

WE are charged with protecting the social safety net. With dollars, yes, but more so with our votes and our voices.

Assuming that nothing Big Money opposes can happen; nothing it wants can be denied, is plain lazy thinking. We DO have a democracy, if and when we want it badly enough.

nashville_brook

(20,958 posts)
78. it has to come from the true grassroots: community coalitions
Sat Nov 2, 2013, 10:31 AM
Nov 2013

that are plugged into national work. the fundraising has to occur at the grassroots level or else it will be compromised.

this are BIG orders, but we have some very good models for making this work. if you look at the fundraising success that LGBT grassroots have had in the last decade, there's clearly the ability to raise this money at the local level without having to ask up the food chain.

 

reddread

(6,896 posts)
110. sucker's bet
Mon Nov 4, 2013, 07:44 AM
Nov 2013

you cannot fight unlimited money with money.
take freedom's fight to another place, dont let them call the tune.
technology and clear headed simple strategy can do the deed.
We can not keep reacting, being played and victimized into subservience.
Play their game to lose.
its fixed.
change the game.

zeemike

(18,998 posts)
38. Yep, the solution is dilution.
Fri Nov 1, 2013, 05:05 PM
Nov 2013

And there is no better way to dilute politics than with money.
And money does not care what the politicians say, they care what they do, and so when a bill comes up that money wants all they need to do is vote for it, and cite the rational for it given to them by money.

MisterP

(23,730 posts)
23. "veal-pen" the libs, then "bluewash" Pub policy to make it seem lefty, then have the Pubs
Fri Nov 1, 2013, 04:34 PM
Nov 2013

call it "commie" to reinforce that

easy peasy

nashville_brook

(20,958 posts)
27. "blue wash" is a much more elegant term -- love it.
Fri Nov 1, 2013, 04:42 PM
Nov 2013

haven't thought about the veal-pen in a while -- my sense is that OFA kinda made that irrelevant as anyone except them were seen as untrustworthy of access.

Starry Messenger

(32,342 posts)
34. I think it is more class-based.
Fri Nov 1, 2013, 05:00 PM
Nov 2013

The discord I mean. Also there are splits in the party that might not ever manifest nationally, but we've seen in some regional elections here in CA. Labor-friendly Dems are going to be facing primary challenges from the right from corporate-friendly Dems.

nashville_brook

(20,958 posts)
39. spot on.
Fri Nov 1, 2013, 05:06 PM
Nov 2013

yes, i think you're right. it is class-based -- and it does manifest at the local/state level in terms of primary challenges. although, in my state (Florida) we're just trying to get anyone elected at the state level with a D next to their name. Hence, Charlie Crist.

Blue_Tires

(55,445 posts)
42. There was a shocking amount of liberal-washing for the Citizen's United decision...
Fri Nov 1, 2013, 05:11 PM
Nov 2013

That *never* made sense to me...

nashville_brook

(20,958 posts)
44. expect more of that with Citizen's United 2: McKutcheon
Fri Nov 1, 2013, 05:13 PM
Nov 2013

this is the one that looks at the aggregate amount a person can spend in an election cycle. it's less well known at the first Citizens United.

 

Scuba

(53,475 posts)
43. Fixing this means vetting candidates at the grass-roots level ....
Fri Nov 1, 2013, 05:13 PM
Nov 2013

.... County Board, City Council, School Board, etc. Then qualifying those folks who have been vetted - and can win - for State and national offices.

This wouldn't even be hard if it wasn't for the boatload of cash the other side is spending.

nashville_brook

(20,958 posts)
45. our biggest funders at the state level tend also to be DLC-y (not surprising)
Fri Nov 1, 2013, 05:17 PM
Nov 2013

they have big money b/c they come from big money.

we have to get better at funding ourselves -- something that really scares the crap out of most of us as we see the filings from the other side.

Grayson presents a very solid model for better grassroots funding, and he's done amazing work fundraising for other candidates. he's our anti-Cruz.

Cryptoad

(8,254 posts)
48. Comparing
Fri Nov 1, 2013, 05:47 PM
Nov 2013

what Liberal have done to hurt the Middle Class to what the Republican Tea Party has done is like pissing in Ocean and thinking your are affecting the Tides!

nashville_brook

(20,958 posts)
50. no one is saying that, though, are they? we're talking about identity theft...
Fri Nov 1, 2013, 05:57 PM
Nov 2013

you're talking about assault.

the issue is liberal washing of policy that hurts the middle class -- or, using our party's brand to advance policy that hurts the people in our party. so, when Dems support anti-middle class policy, like the Grand Bargain, or NAFTA, etc -- that's a betrayal, and we need to stand up and call them on it.

It's no okay to use our brand for Pete Peterson's billion-dollar scheme to dismantle Social Security. in case you haven't heard, many different arms of the Fix The Debt groups have been out this week touting their "bipartisan" cuts to SS.

Dems like Evan Bayh and Ed Rendell who are "blue washing" this agenda need to be stopped, and it's just too bad if they suffer for it b/c our families are suffering now, and we need help -- not more kicks in the chin.

Cryptoad

(8,254 posts)
55. There is no way of ranting about Liberal Washing
Fri Nov 1, 2013, 06:14 PM
Nov 2013

without a comparison to How Conservatives are far worst.....

nashville_brook

(20,958 posts)
82. I'm not sure I'm understanding what you're claiming.
Sat Nov 2, 2013, 10:51 AM
Nov 2013

is it that bluewashing doesn't exist in a world where conservatives exist? is it that much of a straight line for you?

KoKo

(84,711 posts)
67. Indeed... I think there are a few sincere..who are young and full of hope
Fri Nov 1, 2013, 08:28 PM
Nov 2013

without background to recognize "empty promises."

The rest...well...maybe they have political capital invested in their views for whatever reason.

But...still this "Road Show" is starting to wear thin amongst the American People, according to very mainstream polling. How long can all this last?

nashville_brook

(20,958 posts)
83. i think it's safe to assume that DU is the "inside baseball" conversation
Sat Nov 2, 2013, 10:56 AM
Nov 2013

and as such there's all kinds of people with different investments in the party conversation. so, there's going to be the young party activists who are trying to "win one for the team," and there's going to be those who, as rank-and-file depend on the party to fight for us.

so, some of this is the tension between those "fighting for the party," and those "fighting for real policy that helps real people."

DC is a very strange place. if you ever get the chance to spend any time wandering thru the congressional office buildings do yourself a favor and sit quietly in one of the cafeterias and just listen. the careerism is deafening.

Cal Carpenter

(4,959 posts)
63. Perhaps it would make more sense if people looked up what "liberal" means
Fri Nov 1, 2013, 06:41 PM
Nov 2013

in terms of economic theory. Because in those terms, things like NAFTA make perfect sense.

Just something to think about

Cal Carpenter

(4,959 posts)
98. No one except most of the world
Sat Nov 2, 2013, 12:07 PM
Nov 2013

and generations of economic and political theorists.

Just looking at the wiki entry for liberalism and 'liberalism by country' shows that you are wrong - plenty of people think that, and if they don't, they are either uninformed or are deliberately misleading people. NAFTA is a free trade agreement. Free trade and 'free markets' are the main economic characteristics of liberalism.

In the US, we focus on social liberalism, but our economic policies - including those pushed by most mainstream Democrats, are economically liberal.

It should be no surprise that voting for liberals leads to liberal economic policies such as NAFTA and TPP, but the rare occasions I point this out here on DU it is not well received. I expect this will be no different.

alarimer

(16,245 posts)
65. I agree with Sirota most of the time and I think this is spot-on.
Fri Nov 1, 2013, 07:57 PM
Nov 2013

These organizations are mostly interested in staying close to power.

nashville_brook

(20,958 posts)
76. i like that his approach is to be anti-beltway, and write from Colorado
Sat Nov 2, 2013, 10:19 AM
Nov 2013

instead of DC. he also seems to be writing from outside of his own comfort zone lately, publishing on NSFW corp.

liberal_at_heart

(12,081 posts)
68. That's why we can't vote for just any democrat. They must have a proven track record of working for
Fri Nov 1, 2013, 10:10 PM
Nov 2013

the people. Emanuel has never worked for the people.

nashville_brook

(20,958 posts)
80. Rahm is an unmitigated disaster for the people of Chicago
Sat Nov 2, 2013, 10:37 AM
Nov 2013

folks are starting to publish on this, here's a book called "Mayor of the 1%" and I know I heard of another one on NPR recently.

http://www.chicagoreader.com/chicago/kari-lydersens-new-book-profiles-mayor-emanuel/Content?oid=10979151

Mayor Rahm: The mayor for some of us
Kari Lydersen's new book explains how Emanuel earned the nickname "Mayor 1 Percent."

Most of his political battles foretell his fights as mayor. It's pretty obvious that Emanuel concluded early in his career that since progressives were probably going to vote for Democrats no matter what, he really didn't have to pay any attention to them. And he didn't, as he cut deal after deal with the right.

Lydersen recounts how he helped water down President Obama's national health plan. And then raged at anyone—including his older brother, Ezekiel—who dared to criticize the president for not passing a genuine single-payer plan.

nashville_brook

(20,958 posts)
91. i didn't actually have class in mind on this, but i think that's the root of it...
Sat Nov 2, 2013, 11:45 AM
Nov 2013

the more we examine it. there's class in the sense of monied Dems vs grassroots Dems. class is in play also with economic vs culture issues. and class is definitely in play in the basic fight to get reasonable policy considered.

right now we're looking at the possibility of Social Security being gutted -- when we SHOULD be talking about the failure of 401-k plans, the looting of pensions and eliminating the cap. instead we're having this politically stupid fight about how much of Social Security should be cut.

we're dead as a party if we let this happen.

 

Jim Lane

(11,175 posts)
70. CAP is not a liberal organization in my book.
Sat Nov 2, 2013, 04:27 AM
Nov 2013

Supporting escalation in Afghanistan and opposing single-payer health care are not liberal positions. Thus, it's not surprising that CAP would be more attuned to Lloyd Blankfein and his ilk than to, say, Noam Chomsky.

nashville_brook

(20,958 posts)
75. think tank CAPture. would be nice to create a list or a ranking
Sat Nov 2, 2013, 10:12 AM
Nov 2013

of real independent liberal think tanks.

or, i bet that exists already.

nashville_brook

(20,958 posts)
89. will have to check this out!
Sat Nov 2, 2013, 11:35 AM
Nov 2013

i think there's some similarities between our time now and the moment he was writing.

nashville_brook

(20,958 posts)
81. with both Clinton and Obama, the constant/absurd attacks from the right
Sat Nov 2, 2013, 10:42 AM
Nov 2013

make a coherent assessment of their policies difficult if not impossible while they are happening. we spend so much of our time defending them from stupidity and racism (in the case of Obama) that it's easy to feel sorry for them and go easy on substantive critique.

but political life isn't like sports. if the wrong players win in politics we might wind up with a lost generation starving in their senior years. We might completely lose our middle class (which has basically happened already).

DirkGently

(12,151 posts)
86. This. ^ Next to the Ted Cruzes of the world,
Sat Nov 2, 2013, 11:10 AM
Nov 2013

a proposal to simply weaken Social Security or starve a few million children could be taken as sanity. That's what we deal with now -- an endless parade of screaming clowns gibbering about birth certificates and death panels.

So even the most corporatist proposal -- provided it doesn't involve batshit theocracy or intricate theories on how women must be instructed on the use of their own uteri -- becomes the "pragmatic center."

It's sort of like the Overton Window, except we spend our time trying to drag the frame not left or right, but toward anything coherent or even vaguely rational.

This is why I think we need more leftwing crazies. I don't even know exactly what that would look like at this point, but apparently we need something loopy to compromise away in order to have anything vaguely progressive taken seriously.

Otherwise, the extent of our victories going forward will apparently be winning the argument over whether our candidates are crypto space aliens and the Post Office is a Stalinist plot.

nashville_brook

(20,958 posts)
88. if we had a functioning Overton Window we'd have actual policy victories
Sat Nov 2, 2013, 11:33 AM
Nov 2013

for more/better dems to campaign on.

i was ecstatic after the shutdown that we had a real lead in the sitting Repub vs Generic Dem polls. I was told by people much smarter than me that we'd likely not hold on to that thru the ACA implementation all the way to 2014. in other words, they were bracing for ACA implementation problems to wipe out our shutdown lead.

it's definitely an "i told you so" moment. if we had a public option or a "medicare for all" model we wouldn't be dealing with the anger stemming from the mandate.

on to the Grand Bargain.

 

Eleanors38

(18,318 posts)
84. In the 60s, my brother called it the "anti-establishment establishment."
Sat Nov 2, 2013, 11:06 AM
Nov 2013

NO MAJOR AMERICAN INSTITUTION wants anything to do with any outlook to the "left" of any Democrat since FDR. That includes The Obama Administration, the Democratic Party, MSM and Gold Sacks & Co.

Two choices to prevent de jure authoritarian take over of all institutions:

1) Take over the Democratic Party from the precinct level up (the FR did it with the GOP); or

2) Form a new party.

Otherwise, we can start yet another brou-ha-ha revolution discussion thread.

nashville_brook

(20,958 posts)
87. i think it's a safe assumption that a good percentage of DU folk
Sat Nov 2, 2013, 11:11 AM
Nov 2013

are working at the precinct level and taking their ideas and energy into local political scenes.

 

Eleanors38

(18,318 posts)
108. I hope so. 40 yrs. ago, activists knew when they were making concerted efforts.
Sun Nov 3, 2013, 06:11 PM
Nov 2013

Now, I'm no longer sure.

 

Vashta Nerada

(3,922 posts)
97. Many liberals can see right through the liberal washing.
Sat Nov 2, 2013, 12:06 PM
Nov 2013

I knew Rahm Emanuel was a piece of crap way before he ran for mayor. Hillary Clinton is another example of liberal washing. I see right through her and I know she only cares about the 1%.

nashville_brook

(20,958 posts)
100. as president, Bill Clinton was adept at blurring the interests of 1% vs 99%
Sat Nov 2, 2013, 12:19 PM
Nov 2013

and we didn't have this language of Occupy to help sort it out. we were told a "rising tide floats all boats" as if NAFTA was going to help middle class americans.

i really hope we don't fall for this again.

DirkGently

(12,151 posts)
102. The Clintons seemed to bite on the notion
Sat Nov 2, 2013, 12:41 PM
Nov 2013

that we could massage and empower the largest monied interests in a way that wouldn't hurt everyone. Rising stock market floats all boats, if you will.

But a rising stock market isn't enough. They have to game the system. Inflate bubbles, burst them, rush in to pick up the pieces. Fend off all regulation. Abscond with the social safety net.

We can be friends with those interests once they get back behind the walls liberals built to contain their worst impulses in the first place.

CrispyQ

(36,457 posts)
101. I was a dem since 1975 & I changed my affiliation this summer.
Sat Nov 2, 2013, 12:20 PM
Nov 2013

When I heard a democratic president put SS cuts on the table was a turning point for me. I don't care if it doesn't happen, this time, it will be put on the table again, & a dem prez did it first. To me that was the last straw with this party.

I'll probably vote mostly dem, but next time some right-leaning dem asks me, "Who else are you going to vote for?" I'll respond, "The Greens, perhaps." I changed my registration to send a message & also, because voting for the lesser of two evils has gotten me exactly what I was voting against in the first place. This is not the democratic party I joined in 1975. I know many think we have to take our party back from within, but I think it's too compromised with big money.

I worry that if another liberal party were to somehow rise in the ranks, that it too would become corrupt. Until we get big money out of politics, the 99% are fucked. But ask the average person on the street if they would be willing to have government pay for elections & I'll bet they would say no. The 1% has so effectively brainwashed the 99% into believing that government spending on the 99% is always bad.

There will be no change until more people go hungry. I believe that most people don't change until the pain becomes personal. I think it was Lily Tomlin who said, no matter how cynical I am I can't keep up.

Good post. Now I'll go read what others said.

nashville_brook

(20,958 posts)
106. i'm actually heartened by how many grok what's wrong with liberal washing
Sat Nov 2, 2013, 02:16 PM
Nov 2013

love the Lily Tomlin quote!

i think there's definitely DU'ers who come by their "blue doggedness" honestly. there's plenty of dems who believe neo-liberal policies work. on this measure i think the crisis of people going hungry would help to wake people up (and god what a horrible thing that is to admit).

In this way, The Hunger Cliff might undermine The Grand Bargain. We'll see, I suppose. We can't underestimate the ability of people to ignore inequality. There's always going to be people on our side of the fence who think the underclass deserve their position.

Latest Discussions»General Discussion»Is "liberal washing&...