TSA is useless, except for keeping people scared.

[yorgatron]

millions (billions?) of dollars spent on it, yet it does nothing to prevent terrorism.

what it does is terrorize passengers, so they'll allow billions (trillions?) to be spent on the military.

[el_bryanto]

1. Does nothing? I get that it's annoying to have hold ups and checks when travelling but nothing?

I'm not sure that's accurate.

Bryant

[leftstreet]

2. Are they union workers?

[AnotherMcIntosh]

3. Useless? Don't they give free feel-ups?

[broiles]

4. I appreciate the TSA. They have always been polite and considerate.

If they hadn't been there this situation could have been a whole lot worse, and it cost one of them his life.

[FSogol]

6. Same here. I've always found them to be professional and polite. n/t

[geek tragedy]

8. Not exactly a fun job to pat down a bunch of strangers and

look through an endless sea of purses and backpacks on a computer monitor.

[FSogol]

9. Especially when all those strangers are in a hurry to get somewhere and usually stresed. n/t

[ChisolmTrailDem]

15. I have done something that's very unusual for me. I have flown 4 times this year (so far) and

before this year I hadn't flown since before 9/11. Back when the TSA was a concept I hated the idea. I still don't like it. However, it's not as bad as I had been led to believe. The agents are very nice but you can tell that they are also very serious. Yes, there are incidences that are just absurd and ridiculous that we all become outraged about that the TSA has done. But I've accepted those things as no different in context than the ridiculous and absurd things that you might experience at a grocery store or out in traffic or anywhere, under any circumstance, in any industry at the point interaction with the general public.

We're talking about getting in an aluminum tube and going 34,000 feet into the air here. Though I might have issues with the TSA, I do not believe they are completely "useless", as postulated by the OP.

By way of disclaimer, my largest grievance with the existance of the TSA is my aversion to the growing police state in America.

I'm actively accepting taking the good with the bad, re: TSA.

[Logical]

46. You think TSA can stop airport shootings? Really? Also.....

If someone really wanted to blow up people in an airport they could do it in the massive lines caused by the TSA checkpoints.

You need to read a lot more on the topic.

[Skittles]

54. I've never had a problem with them either

and I have appreciated their assistance

[geek tragedy]

5. What a horribly crass thread to post when a TSA worker was just gunned

down by an anti-government terrorist.

You sound like you're trying to justify this act of murder

[arely staircase]

68. no kidding

crass is about the best thing you can say for it.

[ScreamingMeemie]

7. They don't deserve to die for doing their jobs.

I've never personally been "terrorized" by TSA. Sometimes the waits are long, and there is the overzealous agent here and there, but, for the most part they are just people...like you and I...doing their jobs.

[Xithras]

11. Most great abuses of power...

...are carried out by people who are just "doing their jobs". That's not really a defense.

[geek tragedy]

13. Oh sweet Jesus. You're comparing x-raying people's bags to internment camps and worse? nt

[Xithras]

17. Lol. No, but you just did.

I was thinking about the generally abusive bureaucratic bullshit that has pervaded corrupt governments throughout history (think Great Leap Forward), but if you want to apply it to that particular topic, then yes, it could also easily be argued that many of the worlds greatest atrocities (Stalin, Pol Pot, Hitler, Milosevic) were only possible because of people "just doing their jobs" as well. Not a fair comparison to the TSA by any means, but the same general concept does apply.

Being nothing more than a "cog in the machine" isn't a defense when you choose to be that cog.

[geek tragedy]

19. Still don't get why you're hating on TSA agents for performing

the necessary function of screening for weapons and explosives at airports.

It's not oppression. It's minor inconvience.


Sounds like anti-gubmint claptrap.

[Xithras]

22. See, that's the point we disagree on.

performing the necessary function of screening for weapons and explosives at airports.

The TSA performs no valid functions whatsoever. It's been demonstrated time after time that they are an ineffective organization that routinely fails to detect even the most obvious of threats. Airport based terrorism was already at its lowest level in 40 years before the TSA was formed, and was threats were continuing to decline right up to the date of the TSA's formation, so you can't even argue that their creation was warranted by modern terrorist threats. 9/11 was a fluke event largely created by our own governments incompetence, and the formation of the TSA was a gross overreaction by our government in order to create the illusion that they were "doing something".

I'm not anti government by any means, but that doesn't mean that we should allow an ineffective government agency to abuse us (and if a government employee sexually assaults me by grabbing my genitalia, that's abuse). The TSA needs to be abolished, along with the NSA and a handful of other government agencies that provide little value to the people.

[geek tragedy]

24. I disagree with your extreme libertarian view that checking for explosives and

weapons are not valid functions.

P.S.

http://www.cnn.com/2013/11/01/travel/guns-in-airports/index.html

TSA checkpoint officers are not armed. The agency screens about 1.8 million passengers and their luggage every day for firearms and other prohibited items. The number of guns seized by the TSA at airports around the country has been on the rise since 2007. The agency seized 1,556 guns in 2012, nearly double the 803 guns confiscated in 2007, according to agency figures. Through the end of September, the agency has seized 1,343 guns this year.

There can be criminal penalties for travelers who bring firearms to TSA security checkpoints, whether it's intentional or not, and the TSA may impose civil penalties of up to $11,000, according to TSA spokesman Ross Feinstein, writing via e-mail earlier this week.

This week alone, 29 firearms were discovered at TSA checkpoints, according to a TSA blog post published Friday. Of those, 27 were loaded. None of the guns logged by the agency through Thursday was discovered at the Los Angeles airport, the site of Friday's shooting.

You also contradict yourself where you say airport terrorism was at its lowest ever when the TSA was formed, and then say it was an overreaction to airport terrorism that killed a mere 3000 people.

[Xithras]

27. Ad hominem nice.

So basing policy on actual numbers and a rational evaluation of our security needs is an "extreme libertarian view" in your world. Good to know.


The number of terrorist attacks in the United States was dropping long before 9/11, which was a statistical outlier. The TSA and Homeland Security have tried to take credit for the continuing drop in American terrorist activity since their formation, but a longer look at the numbers makes it clear that they've had virtually no effect at all. Their creation was a knee jerk reaction to a tragic fluke (no different than the pointless wars they spawned, in all honesty).

And the overall number of guns being seized is irrelevant to the question of security, as the TSA themselves have already conceded that a far larger number of weapons were flowing through our airports prior to the TSA's formation and that the number of those weapons being used in crimes on aircraft is largely unchanged. They can show that they're "doing something" with those numbers, but one thing that they're NOT doing is making you safer.

[geek tragedy]

31. You do realize that the same stuff the TSA does was going on before it existed, right?

Technology has changed, but searching for weapons etc has been the practice for decades.

Why is better to have airport security privatized and conducted by Blackwater-type operations that are concerned with profit motives and who hire non-union employees?

Calling the TSA 'tragic' is bizarre.

[Xithras]

41. Yes, and they did it without feeling up little old ladies, or putting 6 year olds on No-Fly lists.

Anyone who claims that airport security hasn't changed since the TSA took over obviously didn't fly much before 9/11. They have layered on all sorts of security theater that has done nothing to make you safer.

As to the second paragraph...you're mixing issues. I actually don't have a problem with the notion of having a security agency running the gates, but object to the way the TSA has done it. How many lives have they saved by making us throw out our water bottles? How many aircraft have they kept in the air by blasting us with radiation scanners? The TSA itself needs to be abolished because it's an agency founded on the principles of abuse and power, and an agency with that kind of foundation can't be easily reformed.

Create a new agency with security policies more akin to the pre-TSA procedures that we used back in the 90's (i.e. no groping little old ladies,) fire all of the existing employees, and only allow them to be rehired by the new agency after they have gone through thorough a thorough reeducation process. Works for me.

[ScreamingMeemie]

14. It's not really a reason to kill someone in my books.

More TSA agents do a good job than a bad one.

Although I think TSA is ridiculous window dressing, that's not their fault and it's a fine defense.

[randome]

10. Really? You're that easily scared?

[hr][font color="blue"][center]Treat your body like a machine. Your mind like a castle.[/center][/font][hr]

[DirkGently]

12. TSA is often a prisoner of bad policy, but

Last edited Fri Nov 1, 2013, 07:05 PM - Edit history (1)

it's not useless, and I have no hostility for the rank and file trying to cope with what must be an incredibly challenging environment. My experiences with the actual people have been positive.

We need airport security. Whether we need nude-ifying X-ray boondoggles or rules forbidding pen knives is another question.

I think if anything, we should better train and pay the individual TSA workers. Human intelligence is the best guard against human deception. All the intrusive gizmos and arcane regulations are worth much less.

Edit: I was not mindful of the shooting today when I wrote this -- I think I had just heard about it, was not thinking about it being a TSA agent who was killed. My thoughts on the general topic are the same, but today in particular, the TSA deserves our compassion and our empathy, not our contempt.

[Glassunion]

16. Dude, I'm no fan, but the timing of your post is tactless.

[frazzled]

18. It provides good government jobs for people who otherwise might not have one

How about that aspect? I'm willing to stand in line a few minutes so some more people aren't unemployed.

It does not "terrorize" passengers. There are times it's a pain, when it's crowded. Otherwise? Meh.

And if it keeps one handgun or other weapon off my plane, I'm all for it.

[Pretzel_Warrior]

23. That's a pretty lame reason

[frazzled]

30. People said that about the WPA, the Conservation Corps, and other ...

government-created jobs during the Great Depression. And there were probably a lot of stupid, make-work jobs, as well as ones that contributed lastingly to the nation.

We're still in a very weak economy. It's as good a reason as any to me, especially that it has the added benefit of potentially saving lives.

[Throd]

61. No, it just makes flying a pain in the ass.

[Logical]

47. How about we have 2 checkpoints instead of 1 under that dumb logic. n-t

[yorgatron]

20. I don't hate the agents.

they're just people that need jobs.

but the underlying principle of what they do is to remind you that you should be afraid.

what they do should be done by private security paid for by the airlines, and added to the price of your ticket.

all the people that never fly anywhere are paying for this dog & pony show every day, and it's mostly useless.

it's just another way we are becoming increasingly militarized in our everyday lives.

[geek tragedy]

21. How would privatized security guards be any less oppressive or intrusive?

Why should we privatize the function of keeping public infrastructure safe? Do you really want profit-chasing corporations making those decisions?

[kestrel91316]

35. Privatization of government services is RW claptrap.

Why are you posting RW claptrap?

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

53. Private security paid for by the airlines is the way it used to be.

And we saw how well that worked.

Not a huge fan of the way the TSA is managed, but a guy just got killed doing his job. Maybe not the best day to be busting on TSA agents.

[Link Speed]

25. TSA is a pain in the ass

Because of that claptrap, I have to leave my house earlier to get to the gate on time. I fly 1st Class but I look like a homeless person, so I get the Full Routine every time even tho I am X-Plat on several airlines. I really wish they would establish a flow-thru lane for those of us who travel a lot.

[Buddha_of_Wisdom]

26. They just restarted Clear in my area..

https://www.clearme.com/

[Link Speed]

36. Thanks! It's now in place here.

Dang, how could I have missed it?

Probably because the vast majority of our travel is from West to East Coast and we have to get to the airport so early that I am usually semi-comatose. When flying return, I am usually pretty lubed and semi-oblivious.

I am going to check this out right now.

Again, thanks.

[jberryhill]

39. TSA pre, and some places have lanes for preferred tiers

[OmahaBlueDog]

28. What a rotten post in the wake of the death of a TSA agent

TSA is designed to ward off the amateurs. They are a vast improvement over the pre-911 rent a cops.

While I don't live in constant fear, I'm grateful that at least those minimal steps are taken to keep persons with firearms and other weapons off of planes.

[Logical]

48. Really, you think they stop anything? Where are the terrorists? Because if they.....

really wanted to kill people what better of place is there than in the massive lines before you get to the TSA agents.

[OmahaBlueDog]

62. They keep amateurs from trying to take weapons onto an aircraft.

However much damage one can do in an airport full of people by means of automatic weapons pales in comparison to what one can do with a jumbo jet loaded with fuel.

[Logical]

63. Bullshit. They have you believing it. n-t

[OmahaBlueDog]

64. TSA Finds Guns on Hundreds of Passengers Each Year

TSA Finds Guns on Hundreds of Passengers Each Year

Transportation Security Administration officers don't carry guns, but airline passengers do.

Nearly every day, and sometimes multiple times a day, TSA officers find all manner of guns on passengers or in their carry bags, pocketbooks and briefcases as they try to pass through screening in the U.S.

In the first six months of this year, Transportation Security Administration screeners found 894 guns, a 30 percent increase over the same period last year. The TSA set a record in May for the most guns seized in one week — 65 in all, 45 of them loaded and 15 with bullets in the chamber and ready to be fired. That was 30 percent more than the previous record of 50 guns, set just two weeks earlier.

Last year TSA found 1,549 firearms on passengers attempting to go through screening, up 17 percent from the year before. The number of guns found by TSA at checkpoints has more than doubled in the past eight years. There were 660 firearms found in 2005, the year TSA began keeping data on the incidents.

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireStory/tsa-finds-guns-hundreds-passengers-year-20761005

[Logical]

65. Those would of been found before 9/11. And the lotion, shoes, bullshit is just bullshit......

Where are the terrorists? Where? Where do you see them pulling attacks?

Why not do a mass shooting a week at a NFL stadium as people are entering? Do a mass shooting a week at a TSA line at Chicago or New York? Or do a Boston type bombing at crowded events weekly.

It would shut this country down.

Because they are not a real credible threat.

9/11 was a fluke. It only worked once. Now it would not. And not because of the TSA. Because passengers would not longer cooperate.

But they have convinced people taking off your shoes and not having lotions will keep you safe. And people like you fall for it.

[OmahaBlueDog]

66. My heart bleeds for those who had to remove shoes and take a laptop out of a bag

It's so arduous, and you never get those 5 minutes of your life back....

http://blog.tsa.gov/2013/11/tsa-week-in-review-29-firearms.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+tsa%2FsDax+%28The+TSA+Blog%29

Friday, November 1, 2013

29 Firearms Discovered This Week – Of the 29 firearms, 27 were loaded and nine had rounds chambered. See a complete list and more photos at the bottom of this post.


Artfully Concealed Prohibited Items – It’s important to examine your bags prior to traveling to ensure no prohibited items are inside. If a prohibited item is discovered in your bag or on your body, you could be cited and quite possibly arrested by local law enforcement. Here are a few examples from this week where prohibited items were found by our officers in strange places.


A 3-inch credit card knife was discovered at Albuquerque (ABQ).

Stun Guns – Seven stun guns were discovered this week in carry-on bags around the nation. Three were discovered at Denver (DEN), and the others were found at Albuquerque (ABQ), Amarillo (AMA), Detroit (DTW), and Las Vegas (LAS).

Meanwhile, you know who's not getting any of his life back?????

SLAIN OFFICER IDENTIFIED

The Transportation Security Administration has identified the officer killed at LAX as Gerardo I. Hernandez, 39. He's the first officer killed in the line of duty in the agency's 12-year history.

No other details were released about Hernandez or the two other TSA officers who were wounded.

___

TSA ADMINISTRATOR'S MESSAGE

In an email to TSA employees Friday evening, TSA Administrator John Pistole said he would be traveling to Los Angeles on Saturday to meet with the "family of our fallen comrade" and the injured employees who are recovering from their wounds. He'll also spend time with the TSA workforce at LAX.

"Together, we will get through this," Pistole wrote. "Our faith will guide us and our professionalism will ensure our ability to carry out our mission."

___

OBAMA CALLS WITH CONDOLENCES

President Barack Obama called Pistole to express his condolences to the families and friends of the TSA officer who was killed and the two others who were wounded.

Obama said he is grateful for all the brave TSA personnel who protect the nation's transportation systems, the White House said in a statement. Obama also spoke with Los Angeles Mayor Eric Garcetti to express his gratitude for those who responded to the shooting.

http://www.wtop.com/209/3496244/LA-to-honor-fallen-TSA-officer

All it means to some was the inconvenience of having to limit liquids in carry-on to 3 oz. and the absolute horror of having to use plastic utensils in the Chili's/TGI Fridays by your gate.

[Logical]

67. Your logic is amazing.....

If you randomly stopped and searched drivers you would prevent some deaths. Same with NYC stop and Frisk laws.
Like those also?

[OmahaBlueDog]

72. Aircraft in flight are fairly fragile

..so in the light of attempted shoe bombings and underwear bombings, I don't find the searches particularly odious. Nor do I find the TSA to be some kind of force for oppression. Mostly, I think the OP (not your OP, but the OP that started this thread) to be tasteless in the light of the death of a federal official who did nothing wrong other than to be someplace where a nut job with a weapon chose to show up.

By the way, we do randomly stop and search drivers to prevent deaths: drunk driving checkpoints are random searches to find intoxicated drivers, arrest them, and prevent deaths. They are commonly run in many states. I fully support them.

[Logical]

70. Wait, the TSA was fully in place and this guy still died. Not sure what your point is. n-t

[KY5]

29. This kind of rhetoric leads to gunmen opening fire on innocent workers.

I do not approve.

[bluestate10]

38. The fucking post should have been banned. Why wasn't it? nt

[geek tragedy]

40. pretty much anything that isn't a personal insult won't get hidden. nt

[kestrel91316]

32. FAIL on so many levels.

[sufrommich]

33. Jesus,if ever the phrase "too soon" was in order

this is it.

[GoneOffShore]

34. Sorry the guy got shot.

Still think the TSA is a useless agency advancing the cause of the surveillance industry. And nothing else.

[bluestate10]

37. THIS is the type of attitude that resulted in a human being being killed today.

Please take somewhere else, it doesn't reflect any values that are remotely Democratic. All that viewpoint does is incite murderous psychos. It is one thing to disagree with government policy, it is a completely different situation when one starts calling everyday working Americans terrorists.

[Logical]

49. So you think some want-to-be murderer is reading this? n-t

[nolabear]

42. My God. How can you post something like this today?

To say it's thoughtless is generous. It borders on the absolutely repellant. PLEASE take it down.

[Deep13]

43. None of the 9/11 hijackers would have been stopped by today's TSA.

The hijackers were exactly who they said they were. They carried sharp things that were legal to carry on the plane. Frankly, they were essentially unarmed. There have been zero successful shoe bombers and the ONE attempt was foiled by alert passengers and crew, not making people take their shoes off. There have been no successful underwear bombers and the one try was again foiled by observant people on the plane. Here's a question, if we now have those enormously expensive full-body scanners, why do we still need to remove our shoes?

I know first hand that the following countries to not use full-body scans or require people to be undressed or to throw out liquids (where did THAT come from?): United Kingdom, Jordan, Egypt, France, Germany, Lebanon. The UK had the IRA and Lebanon has Hezbollah within their borders, and they don't make people get undressed.

post script:
I feel like I need to state the obvious and say that none of this means I sympathize with the gunman.

[joeybee12]

44. Disgusting. Today? You have to post this shit today?

FFS

[joeybee12]

45. Has anyone alerted?

This is really crass considering today's events...and uncalled fror.

[Logical]

50. Feel free. n-t

[Cali_Democrat]

56. Jury results:

TSA is useless, except for keeping people scared.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023962014

REASON FOR ALERT:

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

YOUR COMMENTS:

This is a hurtful post...an attack on the TSA on the very day one of their officers was gunned down in cold blood.

JURY RESULTS

A randomly-selected Jury of DU members completed their review of this alert at Fri Nov 1, 2013, 06:39 PM, and voted 1-5 to LEAVE IT ALONE.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: We should not use a tragedy as an excuse to stifle discussion about the TSA. The post is unrelated to the shooting. I vote to leave it.
Juror #2 voted to HIDE IT and said: No explanation given
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: Alerter should lose points for stupid alert .
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: The OP is a little weird but I don't know what their motives were in posting and I don't think it merits a hide.
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: the poster is a jerk. the remarks are stupid. but they don't rise to the level of banning. If the alerter was the wife of the TSA guy, yes. I am sorry for that man's death. He didn't deserve it. But the poster should stand to allow people to know what a jerk sounds like.
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: No explanation given

Thank you.

[joeybee12]

59. Thanks.

I for one think the OP is in extremely bad taste.

[customerserviceguy]

51. I'm perfectly happy with the security level that they had

during the Seventies, after airline hijackings to Cuba became fashionable among the deranged.

At this point, there is absolutely no way that any passenger is EVER going to get into the cockpit of a flying commercial aircraft without explicit permission from the crew members there, so there is absolutely no way that a commercial aircraft could ever be used as a weapon as happened on 9/11. At this point, it's just security theatre.

[liberal N proud]

52. You get a free x-ray

Not to mention exposure to foot fungus.

What did they do when a shorter show up at the check point? Scatter!

[WilliamPitt]

55. Sucking at life.

You haz it.

[spanone]

57. they found my watch that had fallen out of my plastic receptacle

i didn't notice it missing for almost 30 minutes...they were polite and even joked about it. (mickey mouse watch)

that was worth several million at least.

[mikeysnot]

58. It is all for the appearance of "security"

but it is just government contracting....

[Beaverhausen]

60. A friend of mine is a TSA agent in Terminal 3 at LAX. He was there today. He's still there I heard.

so I say fuck you for your ignorant OP.

[Rex]

69. It is the divide between the people of this country, who are not scared of terrorists

and a government that is totally scared of terrorists. They basically did everything the terrorists wanted them to do, by curbing our civil liberties and making us more angry. Cheney and Dubya just LOVED taking away liberties!

[Vashta Nerada]

71. If it wasn't for the TSA, I wouldn't have a sex life.

Seriously, second base every time I go to the airport.

But I agree with your OP.