General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsNothing to see here. LAX shooter just an anti-government psycho.
Last edited Fri Nov 1, 2013, 05:32 PM - Edit history (1)
Just your basic 20-something with "strong anti-government views" assassinating government security officials at the airport.
Not "terrorism", of course.
Unlike Islamist terrorism, which requires shit-canning every liberty in sight, this sort of high-spirited patriotic gesture is really a celebration of our freedom... an expected event in any free society.
Nothing to see here.
badtoworse
(5,957 posts)Rex
(65,616 posts)it is for that OTHER reason...right?
cthulu2016
(10,960 posts)I do not know more than has been reported, but I seem to know more than you do.
All OP comments are based on pretty reliable (by the standards of such events, given the time frame) public reporting.
badtoworse
(5,957 posts)No mention of why he did it, if he's associated with any group or anything else other than that he's been shot and taken into custody.
You've got him as a RW fanatic, sarcasticaly calling it patriotic and you're making comparisons to our response to Islamic terrorism. Sorry, but absent more information, you're pretty far out there.
Maybe there's more info and I couldn't find it. Provide some links and I'll apologize for the asinine comment
polichick
(37,152 posts)arthritisR_US
(7,287 posts)polichick
(37,152 posts)gopiscrap
(23,756 posts)Rex
(65,616 posts)nt.
wercal
(1,370 posts)The first one that popped up was a man who 'used to work for TSA' and was in LA. He changed his profile pic 18 minutes ago.
This is weird...but there's a chance that Paul Ciancia is the victim's name.
kestrel91316
(51,666 posts)very strong anti-government views.
Wish the cops had suicided him if that's the case.
jberryhill
(62,444 posts)I guess it depends on just what "anti government views" we're talking about.
Rex
(65,616 posts)I have no idea what that is, but I saw someone type it here once and it sounds ominous and scary.
OnlinePoker
(5,719 posts)Rex
(65,616 posts)Since they seem to want anarchy.
starroute
(12,977 posts)The violent ones destroy property, not people, and their favorite targets are things like Starbucks or the major banks.
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)Anarchist:
1. a person who believes in or tries to bring about anarchy.
synonyms: nihilist, insurgent, agitator, subversive, terrorist, revolutionary, revolutionist, insurrectionist More
"police said they arrested ten self-styled anarchists"
adjective
adjective: anarchist
1. relating to or supporting anarchy or anarchists.
"an anarchist newspaper"
https://www.google.com/webhp#q=anarchist+definition
Anarchy:
a state of disorder due to absence or nonrecognition of authority.
"he must ensure public order in a country threatened with anarchy"
synonyms: lawlessness, nihilism, mobocracy, revolution, insurrection, disorder, chaos, mayhem, tumult, turmoil More
https://www.google.com/webhp#q=anarchy+definition
Anarchists don't want public order, i.e., government, police, etc. That's not the left. It's the right that constantly complains about the government.
ret5hd
(20,491 posts)JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)Anarchists by definition do not like government. Therefore they are not leftists. They may look unkempt and resemble hippies, but politically they are not, by definition, on the left. If they fit any political category, it is probably libertarian.
Dreamer Tatum
(10,926 posts)saying he wanted to kill TSA and "pigs".
jberryhill
(62,444 posts)I mean where would someone read things like that about TSA employees and police, and develop such an animus toward them?
I'm thinking these "anti government views" might be the somewhat paranoid sort one sees among both right wingers and left wingers of a certain persuasion. It is good to have canaries in the coal mine, but not so good when they turn into cuckoos.
Aerows
(39,961 posts)All that data and they can't find someone with anti-government sentiments blasting up LAX? They get paid way too much.
Bonhomme Richard
(9,000 posts)Priorities.
gopiscrap
(23,756 posts)ret5hd
(20,491 posts)I'm pickin' RW'er. What about you?
Yeah, I thought so.
jberryhill
(62,444 posts)ret5hd
(20,491 posts)jberryhill
(62,444 posts)But there is nutjobbery which draws from every political stripe. Why does DU have a rule against going too far into "Crazytown" or talking about chemtrails? Because there are nutty things people believe, and are believed by nutty people across the spectrum.
But some people seem to get offended when you think it might be a lone nut. It's almost like they think you are talking about them personally.
They should chip in and put out a press release: "The Lone Nut Anti-Defamation League deplores what happened today, and we'll probably never know the truth that it wasn't a lone nut, because the powers that be will cover it all up."
Doctor_J
(36,392 posts)JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)The problem with claiming that lefties are violent is that being on the left nowadays means leaning toward pacifism, opposing guns, favoring public education, public health care, the EPA and all kinds of things that only government can do.
Lefties oppose the excesses of the private sphere. So I feel safe saying that this shooter was not on the left.
It's the small government crowd or the foreign terrorists who shoot at airports.
Anti-war, anti-guns, pro-government this guy apparently was not.
AtheistCrusader
(33,982 posts)Not all of either are pro-government or anti-government.
For instance, a lot of right wingers want government big enough to jam an ultrasound probe right up inside a woman, to discourage an abortion, for a child they won't give a flying fuck about after it is born.
There's a lot of back and forth on whether assholes like Jared Loughner are left or right, and on which issues and why.
I don't know that we can really pin down the emotionally unstable, beyond what sort of content that may have been spoonfed to them to instill hate.
I care less about an individual's personal politics, and more about what news they watch/listen to.
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)Rachel Maddow. They want the sneers and easy answers of Fox News.
You can have people who are crazy who have a lot of conspiracy theories. I love conspiracy theories myself (although I don't necessarily believe them but rather find them intriguing like others find novels intriguing) but it takes a slight ability to calm your thoughts and follow a coherent thread of logic to arrive at liberal solutions to problems.
Compare to the right-wing, knee-jerk, shoot 'em and let God decide philosophy.
There is a big difference.
AtheistCrusader
(33,982 posts)Doctor_J
(36,392 posts)It's the new BOG boogeyman. For some reason leftist has become an epithet there just like at freeperville.
arcane1
(38,613 posts)Righties have no problem making both of those claims, and do so all the time. They have the doublethink thing to perfection
Doctor_J
(36,392 posts)always throw up that smoke screen after a shooting.
stonecutter357
(12,695 posts)Major Nikon
(36,827 posts)A man was arrested carrying a .223 caliber assault rifle and anti-government written materials, and asked for TSA before he started shooting.
Doesn't seem that far out to me. YMMV.
polichick
(37,152 posts)Paul Anthony Ciancia (sp?)
NightWatcher
(39,343 posts)Ha, I beat A Jones to the punch line.
Scuba
(53,475 posts)jberryhill
(62,444 posts)rdharma
(6,057 posts)Waiting to hear what Alex Jones will be saying Monday.
Kingofalldems
(38,451 posts)From a Luke Russert tweet "...apparently had strong anti government views."
polichick
(37,152 posts)arcane1
(38,613 posts)Will they be letting us know what the material was?
polichick
(37,152 posts)try to cover it up.
Anti-government types have a higher propensity for taking violent action than the average person.
polichick
(37,152 posts)KY5
(61 posts)People use extreme rhetoric to describe government actions they dislike and provoke this kind of violence.
Everyone needs to dial it down a few notches, no matter the issue.
polichick
(37,152 posts)guys like limpballs and Beck.
They need to "dial it down" but others need to call them out for what they are. Eskimos used to shove sociopaths under the ice because they knew what a threat they are to society - in America we give them huge paychecks and huge spotlights. Crazy.
Limbaugh types have poisoned everything.
jberryhill
(62,444 posts)What if the guy thought TSA employees are jackbooted fascist thugs who like to fondle people and get off on looking at body scans.
Rex
(65,616 posts)Is that what you are saying in a very round about way?
jberryhill
(62,444 posts)If I said I read that TSA employees were thuggish enforcers of an anti-Constitutional regime, would you assume I was reading DU or Free Republic?
Rex
(65,616 posts)Do both groups handle their frustrations in the same way? They might have a lot in common, but can you name me some shooters that had radical left ideology in their possession?
Do you know of any radical left wing ideology that calls for a violent overthrow of the government? And any one that actually tried?
jberryhill
(62,444 posts)It's not even a function of ideology, so much as a paranoid engagement with it.
Can you remind me what Guy Fawkes was famous for?
Rex
(65,616 posts)went on a killing spree like this gent did.
jberryhill
(62,444 posts)But simply because, say, the SLA goes on a shooting and crime spree doesn't have anything to do with them being leftists, as much as it has to do with them being paranoid. They killed a guy because they were upset about issuing school ID cards.
There is always some awful government plan to destroy the Constitution, and there are people who are always seeing the camel's back break.
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)People on the left are, by definition, peaceful. There is no equal to the craziness and hatred on the right. None whatsoever. Foreign terrorists and right-wingers act out in these violent ways.
Democrats don't think that way.
I am reminded of the book, The Lost City. The right-wingers just came into peaceful socialist areas in Vienna and started killing people.
The French Resistance was violent. Communists are violent. But we don't have a war going on, and the Communists in this country are not organized to perform violent acts. The left has nothin to gain through violence. Even leftist crazies are aware of that fact.
If they found some indication this guy was on the left, I would question that very seriously. Too clean-cut from the reports I heard on the local LA news to be a leftie.
starroute
(12,977 posts)The Gunpowder Plot was intended to assassinate King James I and restore Catholic rule to England.
So your point is?
jberryhill
(62,444 posts)starroute
(12,977 posts)Go complain to Alan Moore if you don't like it.
jberryhill
(62,444 posts)That much is made clear to the audience.
starroute
(12,977 posts)And in all that time, I don't believe that any anarchists have cited it as inspiration for blowing stuff up.
jberryhill
(62,444 posts)I mean, sure, if I were to parade around in a Charles Manson mask, you might not immediately understand that it's because I support indie musicians, and wonder about that camping trip your daughter wants to take with me.
starroute
(12,977 posts)And he hasn't been turned into a folkloric figure and mingled with all the spooks and witches of Halloween.
These things make a difference. Or do you really believe that people who dress up as Dracula for the season are expressing a desire to emulate Vlad the Impaler?
jberryhill
(62,444 posts)Nor had I known the frequency with which people dress up as Dracula for the purpose of political protest.
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)That is a huge, huge difference.
They were destructive. But it was the police who had the guns, not the folks with Guy Fawkes masks.
And I believe the folks in the US who wore Guy Fawkes masks and were destructive had been attacked by the police for demonstrating prior to the violence.
This guy apparently did not wear a mask of any kind and came with a gun.
I don't recall people with Guy Fawkes masks being arrested with guns. I don't recall people with Guy Fawkes masks shooting at anyone.
Do you?
I'd love to see the link.
JI7
(89,247 posts)pintobean
(18,101 posts)LEO haters. Lots of them.
Doctor_J
(36,392 posts)Not kidding.
Rex
(65,616 posts)Mostly just hosts talking to each other now.
indepat
(20,899 posts)malarkey/rhetoric in their own hands. All hail the mighty gipper so his deification can be finalized.
gopiscrap
(23,756 posts)RandiFan1290
(6,229 posts)Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)pinboy3niner
(53,339 posts)Coming up after the break.
Cali_Democrat
(30,439 posts)What did they say?
pinboy3niner
(53,339 posts)Cali_Democrat
(30,439 posts)Is Wolf there?
Good lawd he's awful.
Sedona
(3,769 posts)Anyone from the gungeon care to identify it?
I see one magazine in the gun and one on the floor next to it.
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datasuspect
(26,591 posts)can't tell if it's an alpha belly though.
AtheistCrusader
(33,982 posts)Nicely done.
Gravitycollapse
(8,155 posts)It's likely an AR derivative of some kind.
AtheistCrusader
(33,982 posts)Ejection port looks open.
Demo_Chris
(6,234 posts)AtheistCrusader
(33,982 posts)It's pretty fuzzy, but reasonably sure I own the same rifle with a carry handle, that's just a flat top.
There's no mag in it. That's the grip. The one on the ground was likely in it when they took the shooter down. Someone yanked it out when they disarmed him.
Edit: Or he flubbed a reload right when he got shot.
Blue_In_AK
(46,436 posts)is that he was carrying anti-government literature. Lots of people on both the left and right hate the TSA. I don't think we can jump to conclusions yet.
Aerows
(39,961 posts)could warn us about this before it happened. You know, since he was anti-government and that is supposedly what they look for.
ourfuneral
(150 posts)Mr.Bill
(24,282 posts)it would then be the EX-LAX airport.
Dopers_Greed
(2,640 posts)awoke_in_2003
(34,582 posts)must be a white guy. Kind of like NFL players. Good African American football players are called "athletic". Good white football players are call "hard working", "intelligent" or "lunch pail kind of guys". If you don't believe me, just listen to a game. It happens all the time. I never noticed it until a local sports station started highlighting this.
Rex
(65,616 posts)talking about white, domestic terrorists? It is like they are scared to bring it up.
awoke_in_2003
(34,582 posts)we must be scared of people with non-white skin.
Rex
(65,616 posts)FUD sells bullets.
How many think the shooter was a liberal?
ret5hd
(20,491 posts)I've challenged them to bet a DU star, but we will see what happens. I don't think they will take me up on it. In fact, I think they KNOW it would be a losing bet.
Cryptoad
(8,254 posts)Pantagruelsmember
(106 posts)"NRA comment on LAX shooter
" Once again the insanity of disarming America is demonstrated in a real life tragedy. This foolish policy of not allowing guns on planes and in airports must stop. Had the public been allowed to be armed at LAX, the shooter would have been confronted with an armed response of tens if not hundreds returning fire.Think of the possibilities. More guns is the answer, not less."
This public service brought to you by the gun manufacturers of America and their friends at the GOP."
Cryptoad
(8,254 posts)NRA Defenders there are here.
Paladin
(28,252 posts)She showed up on Facebook yesterday, talking about how relieved she was that some of her relatives made it through LAX, unharmed. This is a woman who never, ever expresses anything but rabid hatred for government, be it the occupant of the White House or airport security personnel. Talk about cause and effect......
IronLionZion
(45,427 posts)only they were serious. They say the same things about Timothy McVeigh and Eric Rudolph and the white guys in Boston and of course all the mass shootings except for fort hood.
rdharma
(6,057 posts)pampango
(24,692 posts)Paul Anthony Ciancia, who allegedly wounded three other TSA workers before being shot and critically wounded himself, also expressed antagonism toward the Department of Homeland Security (DHS) and its chief until she resigned in August, Janet Napolitano, the source said. Ciancias note called former Secretary Napolitano a bull dyke and contained the phrase FU Janet Napolitano, the source said.
Ciancias language and references seemed to put him squarely in the conspiracy-minded world of the antigovernment Patriot movement. The New World Order refers to a longstanding conspiracy theory that today, in its most popular iteration, claims that global elites are plotting to form a socialistic one-world government that would crush American freedoms. Often, the root of the alleged conspiracy is traced to the 1913 creation of the Federal Reserve and the adoption of fiat currency paper money that is not backed by gold, as it was once was in the U.S.
The attack, which Ciancia allegedly carried out using a semi-automatic 223-caliber AR-15, comes at a time when the Patriot movement has been growing by leaps and bounds, from some 149 groups in 2008 to 1,360 last year, according to counts by the Southern Poverty Law Center. That explosive growth seems to have been driven by the election of our first black president and the approaching loss of a white majority in the U.S. that he represents. Another driver is the crash of the economy, which coincided neatly with the rise to national power of President Obama.